Hi guys, you got another newbie here unfortunately. My verbal abuse made 2 people who were the love of each other's lives go on the outs. She is going to file Friday. I'll post the emails I sent to my priest and therapist. And be happy to hear any advice on saving my marriage.
Hi (therapist),
I just wanted to email you some things that we didn't get to in the meeting Friday. If you have time to read it and/or respond or for a phone call that would be great and I will be happy to pay you for your time.
I was unsure if I should say some things because I don't want to hurt my wife, I want to save my marriage. It seems difficult but I am never going to give up. We last met on Friday 4/13, just a few days ago. The prior Friday, 4/6/18/, was our first meeting. I told you that there was someone else for her. That night, I was hoping she'd come home but that did not happen. After a while I decided to check out this other guy's apartment to make sure her car wasn't there. It was there, so I decided to confront the situation because I had known for a couple of weeks and just couldn't take it anymore. I drove around to a lot of bars and eventually found her at this guy's apartment a little after midnight. She didn't want to leave and it took me an hour to get her out of there. I didn't fight the guy or yell at her.
My phone was still on the call with her sister, who I had been talking to off and on that night. I guess I didn't hang up as I (literally) ran in there. I had also been talking to her mom and dad as well, so they knew I was trying to confront this. After 20 or 30 minutes of listening in, wife's sister called her mom and conferenced her in. I mention this because wife is upset that they know about it. We drove home and didn't say anything the whole way. After a while, she called me in the room to yell at me. Both of them denied that "anything happened", and as time has passed I believe this may be true physically but it was a romantic involvement and she was invested emotionally.
From what I've read, this is something that has happened a million times before. A woman doesn't feel loved and respected at home and she looks elsewhere. That's the way of the world and I only blame myself for not working harder to be a better husband in the first place. Well, the following day(Saturday 4/7/18), wife tells me to come in the bedroom since I was not sleeping in the bed with her. She was still mad and basically yelling at me so I left the room after a while. I spoke with her parents and sister and everyone was pretty distraught. I also went to see Fr. B as well, and left wife at home. She came to where I was a swapped out cars. I left her at home with no keys, on advice from her parents. She got an Uber to my car then swapped my car for hers. It was a very crazy day.
After I left Fr. B's office, I called her and we calmed down enough to get lunch. We had a very long lunch and talked in the parking lot for a couple hours before leaving around 5 PM. We both ended back at our home in suburbs with her in the bedroom and me in the living room. She asked me to come back to the bedroom eventually. It became her yelling at me again. Then she wanted to listen to a phone call between me and her dad. My phone records calls until I delete them, fyi. It was painful to listen to and relive, so I told her eventually I don't want to keep listening to it and that I was leaving the room. I told her that they know everything that's happened, which is/was true, and that she needed to accept it. As I was leaving she told me to stop and come back. She cried for 20 minutes and I just tried to comfort her. Then she wanted me to hold her, hug her, etc. That lead to her kissing me, then sex. We had sex twice Saturday and once Sunday (4/8/18) morning, I slept in the bed, and got to hold her. Sunday (4/8/18) was the first happy day I've had since Mar 12, when she told me about this.
Later Sunday, we talked some and the conversation got to the point where I said, "if I'm so disgusting and you hate me so much, why would you kiss me and make love?". Her response "was that she was just using me to feel better". She has said this before about the times when she asked me to hold her, and to come home to be with her. This may be something she says to hurt me, and there may be more to it as well.
Fast forward to Wednesday night, 4/11/18. Wifr has been monitoring my calls and texts, and yelling at me for talking to her sister, mom, and dad. I am laying in bed and decide I want to see hers too, so I registered on ATT and looks at who she's been calling. I figure out that she is still talking to this guy, and of course I freak out. She also had his name on the online statement listed as one of her female friends. She says this was a coincidence, and maybe that is so. Either way, her mom had seen calls from "Lexi" before and thought it was nothing. Now we knew better and I texted her parent's around midnight, with my discovery. I also went to drive by this guy's house and called him as well. I had been trying to catch up with the guy again to make it clear that I didn't want him talking to my wife. I wasn't going to be violent, but I needed to be clear about it. I also confronted wife about it before I left to pay this guy a visit. Obviously this guy and I just yelled at each other. When I got back w8fe said she was filing for divorce the next day.
On Thursday (4/12/18) evening, me and wife were talking, I made the proposal to her that I would sign the divorce papers right now and she can turn them in whenever IF she gave our marriage an honest try. We discussed that for a few minutes and then agreed to go forward with that plan. We spent an hour or two printing and filling documents, got to the end, and realized our plan was dumb because signatures need to be notarized. The rest of the night was uneventful, but then she did decide to come to counseling with me for the second session which was the first time you met her. I can't remember what she said her reason for coming was when you asked, but this is some backstory. After we left your office, I asked her if she wanted to get lunch. She asked if I wanted to come home from work early and go to xxxxx's, a restaurant in xxxxx's xxxx that we like. We did that and came home. Dinner went as good as you could expect, given our situation. She told me stories about old boyfriends and we both got a couple of laughs out of that. Friday night she started sighing loud and often, and I tried to get her to go to the movies or do something to get out of the house and break the boredom. I asked about every 20 or 30 minutes but it got nowhere. We did go for a run together before it got dark.
Saturday morning (4/14/18), we were laying in bed and she says "How long do I/we have to try?". I asked her what a real try was, and she said the "she didn't feel it" yesterday. I tried to make it clear that she's not going to feel butterflies right away in this situation, maybe I'm the wrong person to tell her that. I went to her parent's house to get her dad's dog, xxx, who wife loves. I wanted to cheer her up, and I don't like her laying in bed alone all day and all night. They had no idea of anything that had happened since Thursday. They didn't know that she and I went to counseling or out to eat or anything, and she had been ignoring their calls. She also told me that she didn't want me talking to them either. So when I was getting the dog, I didn't tell them anything.
Fast forward to Saturday (4/14/18), afternoon, she is trying to get me to agree to go to a bank to sign divorce papers and get them notarized on Monday. She also tries to coerce me into signing it by telling me if I say yes that she will have sex with me. I get up and say no thanks. She gives up and then tells me to get back in bed for sex, but that it's "just sex" and that I shouldn't read into it. On Sunday (4/15/18) morning, I get dressed and am ready to go to church and run a couple of errands to try to get my mind off of things. Once again, she tells me not to go, that she wants to do something. I agree to do something with her. She finds a journal entry she wrote on her 26th birthday March 9, 2017. She just turned 27 this year. This journal entry is a heartfelt one because she describes her love for me by saying that she freezes up when she tries to describe it she freezes up. The entry also states that: - she is so in love with him even during the rough times we fight. - that she thinks we fight a lot (more than normal), but she want so badly for us not to fight - that what she wrote doesn't sound good, but that husband is a very good and kind man deep down - that I have shown her how sweet I am, but even though she know's I am a good man, that she has a grudge towards me in the bedroom and that maybe it is b/c of something that happened before us - that xxxx husbad is the love of my life - that maybe I hold a grudge against her for the bedroom issue and that we keep making the grudge go round and round. She wonders if this problem is "her problem" from what happened before us and if she is starting it somehow.
So we are sitting at dinner and she asks me "what are you thinking?". So I told her that I read her letter, and I got very emotional. How can she show me this letter today, knowing the contents, knowing how it would affect me. She showed me another journal entry a while back where she wrote that "she loves me and always will". How do I reconcile these things she wrote, her asking me to stay, and her other actions, with her saying she wants to divorce. I want to save my marriage and make my wife happy more than anything. I need to find a way. If you have time for a phone call today or this week, or to chat in person, or to respond to this email please let me know. I am very desperate and would appreciate any help you can give us here.
Thank you in advance.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Here is the other email I can post to give more insight.
I've got it on my calendar. Can you offer any advice on getting wife to attend? I don't know that there is a way, but you may have seen more desperate situations turn around.
Last weekend, her friend came in town. Wife asked me to leave the house for the weekend. You and I talked about it a little. On Friday, she was driving me to get my car from a repair shop and pulled into the bank parking lot to try to get me to sign divorce papers. I told her no way and that I'd call a cab before I sat in the car while she went in there. So she decided to take me to my car, and I asked if she still "doesn't believe in divorce". She says she still doesn't believe in divorce, and said so on Saturday and Sunday. So I guess it's just me she doesn't believe in or is scared of committing to.
I think I screwed up Saturday night. I was in bed in the master, and wife wanted me to get out so her and her friend could sleep there. I made a petty argument into an hour long fight by not giving her what she wanted there. I feel like that ruined the weekend and was a step back. And now I feel like going to the lake with her dad was a major mistake, because even though it may not be wrong, she didn't like it. And I was worried that she wouldn't but her dad told me it was ok to do.
I also hinted that'd I'd tell her friend about wife's affair, to which wife almost cried. I think this was a mistake - again, it would hurt her if I did tell someone. Of course, all of these friends are advising her without knowing the whole story and that aggravates me.
Now, the last two weekends have been negative steps backwards. 2 weeks ago we hung out on Friday and Sunday. That is a lot better than this. wife went to go file Friday, but something was wrong on the papers so it didn't happen. I imagine she is going to try again this Friday (she is off Fridays). I am obviously panicked. She still thinks I am trying to control her and even the score. She also thinks I am trying to make her look bad because of me telling her family. I don't want to control her, I really would just like to be with her. And I filled out the papers b/c she told me she would try. I know she doesn't think things will change, and she is scared to "waste" her life with a controlling person (me).
She mentioned going to her parents to stay yesterday afternoon, and I ended up telling her that it is her house too and that I was going to give her some room and comfort of home tonight (this was on the advice of my best man from the wedding). I said I'd either stay at my dad's or stay in the front bedroom out of her way. I feel really bad about my actions the last two weekends - she is right, why don't I just give her the easy things that she wants? I am so dumb. I told her I don't like staying at the house alone, so I'd go to my dad's anyways if she wasn't there - is that a mistake? On the plus side, as she was leaving to go shopping or whatever she ended up doing last night, she did say she'd let me know if she was staying at the house or not, which she ended up doing, but unfortunately she was making sure I was staying at my dad's house. She also said goodbye twice and a "thank you". I had to ask what she was thanking me for, she said for "being nice". That felt good, but I don't think that will change her mind. I probably need about a hundred little things like that in a row to change her mind.
I mentioned to you talking to my friend "soandso", who is married to one of her friends that was in our wedding. I don't think she would like me doing that. But I think this friend may tell her to try. Obviously I would like that. I want help. I left your office so positive Thursday, but that seemed to change rather quickly. I'm scared to tell wife how I feel too much. I'm scared to say "if you don't believe in divorce, then work on our marriage!" I told her this can be fixed, her dad said the same. But she is not buying that. I know there are no magic words.
For a while, I was trying to do something nice for her every day - is this too much? I did make her a card last week, but I haven't given it to her yet. I texted her this morning to have a good day and she responded "thanks you too". I think I need to pour on the love this week, while giving her space when she asks for it. She always said in the past that she wants to feel needed in these type of situations - not ignored during a breakup. I was going to make her dinner tonight and just leave it there for her. And not be at the house when she gets home. Is this a bad idea? I read something called the "Last Resort Technique" by Michelle Weiner Davis that advised backing off to increase your chance of your spouse becoming more interested in you. She advises not pursuing or chasing and implies that doing so is "supplying your spouse with a reason" to leave. I don't think this is the remedy for my situation. To me that is just letting things die.
I think I married an exceptional woman, she clearly expects the best for herself. I've seen and read of people getting through way tougher situations, and I think she's just not going to lower the bar.
I know I wrote a book here, sorry. Feel free to call me if you get a chance. I just need to get some real advice. Thank you very much for all of your help so far.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
This is going to be the hardest journey of your life. The concepts here save people lives.
Read and research the approaches and techniques here as much as you can. When the Vets give you advice please read and reread what they say. Sandi, 25, AS, ACC, V, will chime in with Marriage and life saving advice. Take head. The others here will be your cheerleaders and provide great perspectives.
So, IMO you need to back off of your W. You are tryimg to control her and your Sitch way too much. Please go read the acronym page, there are alot used on this forum.
Your W is WW/lost. Your W seems to come from a high moral background and she cares what her family thinks. Stop talking to her family about you'll Sitch. You have to stop begging and pleading with your W.
She's trying to force the big D on you. Stop standing in her way. Start working on yourself and become a person only a fool would leave.
Get out with some friends. It's called GAL(get a life) in the forum. You have to start detaching. But please read up on detachment it has to be done with love and not hate nad revenge.
180 what you W says she didnt like about you doing the M. But remember 180s are for you.
Lastly stop bring up or talking a out your M, R, or D.(Marriage, Relationship or Divorce.) Just live your life and Don't force your W to Do anything she dont want to do.
Its called holding a person hostage when we force them or try to keep them in something they dont want to be in. I'm not saying not to be mean, but in your W mine, she probably feels like shes being held hostage, get out of her way.
J
Keep posting.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
I hear your advice, and I appreciate it too. What is the reason to stop talking to her family? And should I ignore them even if they call me? We are very close.
I guess I'm trying to force her too much. Last Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday she said "she doesn't believe in divorce". Ok so what gives?
And can you tell me why I should stop standing in her way on the divorce? I mean that honestly I don't understand why that is best for the situation, not that I think you are clueless.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
What your W is going through is very common. Likely she doesn't even know what she wants at this point. She knows she wants to be happy but isn't sure what quill accomplish that. So she cycles day by day.
Obviously you've made a lot of mistakes since this all started. Talking to others about your sitch etc. So start by stopping continuing in those mistakes. And stop skipping church for her! She is temp taking to see if she still controls you!
Good luck and buckle in for a bumpy ride.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You can continue talking to her family, but stop telling your W what she has done. Let them fine out from her or another source. You telling them looks vindictive.
You keep asking her donshe believe in D, and she keeps telling no. But her actions are telling yes. So your question to her about believing in D is for you and not her. You are trying to hold her to her words, she is just saving face because she uttered those words. There's a saying on this forum that goes "believe not of what they and hald of what they do.". Your W obviously believe in D if she is trying to get one from you, please stop asking that question. It makes you look weak and unattractive.
A lot of advice on this forum is going to go against what feels right. When I say dont stand her way, I mean do help her out in the process of D. Do your homework about what the laws entitled you too. But don't ask her not to stop the D and don't ask her about D at all. Try and keep the word oit of your vocab except for on here or with a trusted friend.
Also just because she is saying she wants a D, doesn't mean she will follow thru,(believing in half of what they do). But if you keep asking her questions and standing in her way she will move in that direction faster. Do things that Will pull her back towards you.
Do what works, what's attractive and confident. This statement is hard to grasp, when dealing with your W, ask yourself those three things above, will my statement or action work to pull her closer or dither away? Will I look attractive or unattractive? Will I look confident, or weak?
Read Sandi 37 rules as often as possible.
Patience is the key. You have to be patience yourself and this process. The more you post and read, the more info and advice you will recieve and the better you will learn about doing 180s, GAL and detaching and you will learn the application better as well.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
You can continue talking to her family, but stop telling your W family what she has done. Let them fine out from her or another source. You telling them looks vindictive.
You keep asking her does she believe in D, and she keeps telling you no. But her actions are telling you yes. So your question to her about believing in D is for you and not her. You are trying to hold her to her words, she is just saving face because she uttered those words. There's a saying on this forum that goes "believe not of what they and hald of what they do.". Your W obviously believe in D if she is trying to get one from you, please stop asking that question. It makes you look weak and unattractive.
A lot of advice on this forum is going to go against what feels right. When I say dont stand in her way, I mean dont help her out in the process of getting a D. Do your homework about what the laws entitled you too. But don't ask her not to stop the D and don't ask her about D at all. Try and keep the word out of your vocab except for on here or with a trusted friend.
Also just because she is saying she wants a D, doesn't mean she will follow thru,(believing in half of what they do). But if you keep asking her questions and standing in her way she will move in that direction faster. Do things that Will pull her back towards you.
Do what works, what's attractive and confident. This statement is hard to grasp, when dealing with your W, ask yourself those three things above, will my statement or action work to pull her closer or push her further away? Will I look attractive or unattractive? Will I look confident, or weak?
Read Sandi 37 rules as often as possible. And then reread them again.
Patience is the key. You have to be patience with yourself and this process. The more you post and read, the more info and advice you will recieve and the better you will learn about doing 180s, GAL and detaching and you will learn How to apply them better as well.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
