Gotdie #19: patience, trust...and hope

[Gerda]

Gordie, I just spent way too long reading your posts since you first started posting, and it was heartening to me. I don't know if you have ever read any of my posts, but I have been in the situation you were in for five years now. I became a Christian during my stand and that is how I have made it through. My husband hasn't helped me in any way for five years -- financially not a penny but also just anything else -- cleaning or cooking or walking the dog or moving the car (we live in a city where you have to move the car a lot) or doing anything whatsoever. Mostly leads a secret life but we rarely have spoken of anything. So I found it interesting and somehow inspiring to read about your changes since you started posting. You remind me of my other current hero, DnJ, you are both so quietly thoughtful and yet so full of love and hope and steadfastness. I was actually thinking about what it is in all three of us that attracted us to someone who turned out to be the opposite of that -- I mean, we weren't attracted to that, since the MLC'er is the opposite of who our mates were -- but in some ways, sure I can look back now at the seeds. And I think mine is more insane than some. I am really trying to do the same thing you are doing with an in-house prodigal spouse, but my problem is all financial because I have been trying to save our house from foreclosure and pay all our debts all on my own, and I don't make much. Every single day my H starts up again about how isn't going to live like this much longer -- e.g., with no money in his pocket when he owns half of this house (huge mortgage but even huger equity, but he doesn't understand how little would be left after capital gains and an actual division of debts, assets, etc.). I try to chat with him when he wants to but it's impossible for any conversation to go on for more than 5 minutes without it ending there. So I find no way out except to hide from him, it's the only way I can feel any peace. But then I miss out on the reconnection moments too, so it's a losing battle. Anyway, I was just struck with how similar in many ways our walk is right now, but also how different, since mine is totally disconnected from kids and unable to function as an adult at all. How both our spouses have this idea of being "open" to other religions/practices but really it's just a way to justify this horrible behavior and selfishness. Also how we both put all our trust on God and have a hope that certainly doesn't match what we can see. Thanks for posting all this time, you never know who you'll reach, and when. My thread is pretty quiet but I always feel less alone when someone posts there in a supportive way.

[skm0619]

Gordie.....good for you for not responding to her and for not pretzeling yourself for her.

You are such an example of patience for all of us.

Like I like to say "one day at a time".......

[Gordie]

Gerda

I cannot believe you read all my threads

O my

I so appreciate your words of encouragement

Because you truly ubderstand

I have a confession

Some days i really do feel like throwing in the towel

Filing for d

Walking away

And you have been at this for five years

And your H is still hostile

Where do you find the strength

And the fairh to keep praying

Bless you

[Vapo]

G,

just think what filing for D would accomplish? Nothing. You would be doing it just out of spite.

Instead of looking at it as fighting for your marriage i.e. "bustin' the divorce", look at the whole process as saving yourself, your very core. As someone recently said a totally awesome quote from Shawshank redemption when the lead hero escapes the prison through the sewer: Andy Dufresne crawled through 400 yards of $[censored] and came out on the other side smelling of roses.

[Gordie]

Vapo

My rational and faithful side agree with you

And i feel i could never do that to my kids

But the emotional side or the flesh in biblical terms gets tired

That is when you guys tell me

More faith

More patience

This will take longer than you think

Keep expectations at zero



Journaling

W and i have not had marital relations in almost a year

We stopped when she started dating OM2

Stopped touching each other at all

It pained me to be in the same room

After the affair ended things began to slowly thaw

At first it was incidental touching

Then touching like a friend

Now she wants more hugs

Or will pat me on the *****

This has been slowly building over four months

We are still sleeping separately

And we still have never spoken of her affair

I have not initiated this contact or sought to escalate it

I have avoided all R talks

I have mixed feelings about marital relations

On the one hand I am excited about this prospect

On the other I feel there is a lot of sweeping under the rug

Maybe that is okay

Forgive and forget

Am I withholding physical contact out of spite

Maybe not sure

Or just fear of physical rejection

Is she pursuing

Am I distancing

How to end this cycle

[AndrewP]

Hi Gordie - just about to go into a boring conference call and saw your post.

Setting aside the emotional issues for a moment you know that she has most likely been having unprotected sex with men whose history you don't know and who quite probably she should not have trust in. Nothing you've posted has indicated that she has gone to get tested. If sex does happen - protection will be necessary.

As a LOL and as an indication that you are open but concerned, just get a box of condoms and put them on your night-stand. Either it will open a conversation, or it won't. I believe (and hope) that they have a long shelf life. I think my (completely unused) box has been on my dresser for about a year.

Since I love pressing analogies far beyond reasonable bounds, let's say that you sweep everything under the rug which is the most likely direction of you are both passive about this. If you have pile of unknown junk under the carpet and then try to build something on top of it, it will never have a solid and stable foundation.

This "can" work but you'll never be able to relax because it could all come falling down at any time.

I'm sure I'm not saying anything you've not known already for a while.

How best to deal with this? I have no clue but you've got some smart people around you IRL I believe who know more about this than I ever will.

#TeamGordie

[SBJ]

#TeamGordie for sure...we are all in your corner and only time will tell for sure.

I almost spit my coffee out about the box of condoms on the night stand. That being the funniest thing I've heard in a long time, actually is an interesting idea. But, since you have kids in the house might not be the best idea. However, next time she pats you on your ***, pat her right back on her *** and see how she responds. But, only if you are feeling it.

I'm off for a weekend away touring Easttexas Breweries, Wineries, Distilleries. I'm sure I'll be singing "People Say I've Got a Drinkin' Problem" all weekend long.

[Gerda]

Gordie, I have a different take on this because I am a woman and because I know you are a Christian. Did you ever read what Charlyne says about sex with the prodigal spouse? Or hear her MP3 on that topic? I think it could give you something to think about.

As a woman, I don't agree with what the guys here have said. No woman wants to see a box of condoms to get her in the mood! That would just make me really sad and in this case it is a reminder to her that she cheated if you didn't ever use condoms before. It sounds like a bitter challenge to me.

As a Christian woman -- I think sex is a sacred act and we all know that it can be the most loving connection if between husband and wife. When she did that with OM2, it was more related to what animals do and it was not sanctified; I know that sounds really old fashioned but that's what I believe and have experienced. I know that the OM stuff is so painful to think about; that's why you have to take those thoughts captive. I saw texts from my H that called the OW "my secret other wife." I can't tell you how the devil used to taunt with that and sometimes still does. When I found out she was local, for about a year, I walked around the city terrified, looking at every woman's face thinking that anyone could be the next one to betray me that way, it was a serious PTSD that I have only controlled through prayer.

But the point is that these OP are not the "other wife" or husband, only the secret. Nothing born in the dark could ever be anything but dark. Sex with your wife is part of the light.

If you do want to think about being intimate with your wife again, I think it's part of God's plan to do that before you are fully restored, even if it's awkward and complicated and emotionally painful if you do end up doing that now. Even something almost purely physical is sacred if between you two, and you just have to keep trusting God to slowly make that something comfortable for you again. But if you want to be the initiator of that kind of contact and not have it just happen in the moment for some reason, I would say that I would rather go for a walk in the moonlight and hold hands, or get some sweet texts or notes over a couple of weeks than see a box of condoms or get a pat on the rear.

And I would also say, if you can, find out how close you can get to God through celibacy. I have been doing that for five years and I assure you that you will find a beauty in that too. It might be the only time in your life when you can devote yourself wholly to God's plan and that might be part of his plan, for you to be chaste until the time is right.

Sorry if this is over the top Christian or 19th century but I really live by this so I wanted to offer one more perspective here.

[Gerda]

I loved so much what you wrote to me here. I will write more later, on a deadline! But I feel fortified by your words and by your understanding, thank you!

[DnJ]

Awesome advice SBJ. Pat her right back. She initialled. See what happens.

Might just end the cycle.

Lots of questions. Withholding out of spite, sweeping under the rug, fear of rejection, pursuing, distancing... I get it.

Over the last four months things are getting a little better. I would not worry about what is under the rug just yet, or R talks, or the affair. I think there will be time for that later, she is not ready yet.

She appears to be reaching out a bit. She wants more hugs, so hug back. You two are probably conversing more, enjoy it. Keep expectations low, live in the present, enjoy the moment. Be prepared to back off quickly if needed.

I understand your mixed feeling of material relations as things thaw out even more. I would fully expect you to have mixed feelings regard this. However, the fact you are thinking about that, suggests there has been more than vague clues. So eventually you are going to have to reconcile your emotions.

My advice. Your going to be mixed up for a while. So for the moment acknowledge your emotions and set them side, besides they are going to change anyhow. Follow your beliefs, your emotions will settle sooner or later. Ok, really nice big example. In the future, hopefully not too distance, you and W have reconciled and have a new strong M. I imagine you will not have mixed emotions then. You just got to get there.

IMO, W is being a friend and might just be starting to slowly move forward to more than just roommate / friend. W is reaching out to you a little more. I remember your coach telling you re sex - make her beg for it. I do not know about begging, but it looks like you think she moving towards asking or initiating. If so, better get a handle on those emotions.

Remember you believe in W. You believe in M. Isnt that why you were standing?