Divorce and Acceptance- Part 2

[Pax_luv]

Hey there,
Having a weird day and just checking in-
Lack of sleep+too much work+ burnout+ Financial worry+ divorce stress+calorie deficit+ PMS= Destructive combination!

I was really struck by cil's post about having the courage and opportunity to apologize to her ex. Thank you for sharing, Ciluzen. You had a conversation I could only dream of having. I think it takes a lot of courage to do what you did by apologizing to your xh.

As you may have read in my posts above, I contemplated (albeit briefly), to reach out to ex to try and clear the air. This divorce is just so out of hand and I want it over with. I'm really not in it to fight. I just don't think he'll ever hear me or see me. I've reiterated enough times that I only want what's fair but that's not enough for him. He thinks he gets to decide what's fair in our divorce and also decide what he gets to disclose and not disclose and that's not ok with me.

With this contemplation of perhaps reaching out to him, I also deal with the fact that I would like the opportunity to own up to what I did that may have contributed to the downfall of the marriage. I think this is a vital part of the healing stage. However, that true healing stage might not be for years down the line and I currently can't seem to separate what I did and what he did and what he continues to do. You know?

So... I wish I could go back and apologize for things that I could see could create heartache and damage for him, but I can't separate it from the current behavior. It's really tough. I want to say, I'm sorry for x,y,z and that I didn't support you when x,y,z happened..... And please explain to me how you've been defrauding me during our entire relationship. And why you lied to the court about x,y,z. And why you completely made up a false "testimony". And why you lied to me about x,y,z.


And then I cycle back and ask myself, why would I apologize for a relationship that wasn't real? In all my inward searching, I don't think there was ever a recipe that I could have concocted that would allow my ex to be satisfied with me. I just don't. Being in a relationship with him came at the expense of losing myself and pretzeling myself every darn day to make him happy. It was futile.

I think so much of this journey is about owning our "stuff" and I feel like I've been doing that and continue to seek opportunity to own my stuff in every day life. It's proven beneficial thus far and I know I am living at a different "vibration" as a result.... But now I'm in this terrible legal stalemate with ex and I want to do something to move it along, breakdown walls, and maybe even disarm him to the point that he remembers this is a divorce and this is what happens in a divorce.

I just don't know. I'm confused. I'm rambling. I spent the morning going through our wedding pictures..... Why? Who the heck knows? I'm just in a weird place of processing this and I'm tired. So tired, and wish there was something I could do to fix this. Not go back... But fix this current state so we can get divorced and I can move on with my life.

Hmmm now where's that emergency chocolate?

[ciluzen]

Hey Pax,

First off...you're welcome if my post was helpful to you in any way. I don't actually feel courageous, though. I was more...overwhelmed by emotion and understanding. As I said, the EFT seminar (actually an "externship") was such a deep experience...my program cohort is still talking about it. We needed all of the carbs that week...donuts and pizza were neeeeded; even for the strictly health oriented.

No one just does things to be mean. Behavior is often need-based. How we perceive things is usually based on how our experiences in our FOO family and life shaped our ideas of what is right or wrong; what is normal and acceptable; what is comfortable and uncomfortable to us. When our relationship is strained, it is usually because our needs are not being met in some way. We react to this in the ways that we learned to early on in our lives. If we were lucky enough to have learned good communication skills, we calmly confront and ask for what we want and need. If not, we do what we learned. We withdraw and avoid, even lie and stuff our feelings until they spill out as contempt and anger. Or we confront and attack, complain and blame in the name of being "honest" about our feelings. Trust or mistrust is often at the base of our core feelings. It can create feelings of loneliness and pain...can I trust my partner to see the real me and still love me? This mistrust hampers communication in the ways stated above. Our reactions to our partner's communication and mistrust may actually play into their fear, as they perceive things in our reactions that their experience tells them is untrustworthy and dangerous. Our reactions, however, are based on what WE have learned and perceive based on our own trust issues. It is then a shared dysfunction of trust and communication.

(Sigh). I believe going through the D is the hardest part of all. You both want to fix a problem, protect yourself emotionally, financially, mentally, and physically. But those memories of closeness and what was are there. Loss of what you had, materially and in your relationship and the anger and grief of the situation in the here and now. Regret and guilt, add that in. Oh, add to that a bit of fear of the future and "is this the right thing". Trust me...its hard on both of you. Divorce $u(k$ and it really is a process.

So, I had a point somewhere. Oh, yeah. Go through the D in whatever way works. You may have to give what you don't want to to get out quicker. Tell yourself you're a better person, martyr, taking the high road...whatever. Get it over with. Rip off the bandaid. Then just work on yourself, not just by doing "all the things" and setting and acheiving goals, but by listening to others and understanding why we people do the things we do. I'm going to sound like a hippy (no judgement), but learning to accept people faults and all and loving them anyway can change their view of self. Letting go of anger becomes easy when you realize anger helps no one. I figured that out very recently. VERY.

Unconditional love and understanding. Boom. Life changer. Then I was ready to talk to XH, without worrying about what he thought. I apologized to him for no other reason than to let him know I understood the pain I had caused him...finally. And to lighten my own load. Having that knowledge with no where to put it was going to burden me with a gut ache. So I offered it up with the apology and he accepted it. My apologizing helped him to feel finally heard and it eased both my anger at myself for hurting him and my ensuing guilt. I have more to aplogize for, but with understanding also comes the knowledge that he can only absorb so much at a time.

Warning: don't try this trick at home...and don't do it until you hear a "pop" when the realization that his anger is from his deepest pain:the disappointment that your relationship still made him feel alone and unheard; his need we all have to feel a real bond with another was unmet. And vice versa, but that's his part to figure out.

I'm realizing this is all a process. Its also very much like a twelve step program...as is DBing. Look it up (steps). It might be helpful.

Oh, and I probably ate all of your emergency chocolate. Was it dark? Its gone. My bad.

[Pax_luv]

Ciluzen,
Thank you for taking the time to write that all out. What you say is 100% correct... I want to believe that we are all sensitive beings and our actions are a reflection of hurt. And soooo much of this is about unmet needs.... Needs that we can't even verbalize or consciously acknowledge most of the time. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and perspective.

So, ex wants to bifurcate the marriage now so he can return to single status ahead of the divorce actually being processed. There's a chance we're going to go to trial over our joint assets because he's trying to prove I don't own my house even though I'm on the deed and the mortgage. He's trying to show that my money only went towards household expenses and not the house therefore I have no rights to it. Ps-I am in a community property state and if the above is true.... That was NEVER an agreement we had.... He just had some super magical accounting since he managed all the bills.

So, as of now, he wants to burfucate the marriage so he can move on past this horribly emotional thing.

And I'm left scratching my head. This is what he wanted... Why is he still blaming me? I was the one (shamefully) begging trying to keep us together and HE is he one who can't play in the sandbox he created for himself.

I go crazy wondering if it's true or not. Does he actually feel hurt? Is this just a manipulation? (Probably yes- it's a total manipulation) but If it's real pain, is there anything I can do to provide clarity? I know I can't solve his problems for him, but in real life I would never ever deliberately cause pain to someone. And I do wonder if he feels he made a mistake with all this and will never be able to own up to it.... So he just has to create the destruction to justify his feelings. Our divorce has become a runaway train.

Either way.... It's really tough.... And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Pax_luv]

Hello all,
Not sure if my posting is going to make it through.... But I have some news....

I'm divorced. Actually, I'm legally considered single.

So crazy. I wasn't expect this to happen today, but it did. I'm not sure how I feel about it.

My charming ex out in a court order to bifurcate the marriage ahead of the asset division and financial disclosures.... The reason: he just wants to move on with his life.

To be honest, I'm shocked that the judge signed off on it. The reason the case hasn't moved was because he hasn't submitted a single financial document. So he's the reason it's being held up..... Shocked the judge was like... Ok.

So... Time to shake myself off and move on as a single person with zero financial/ asset elements squared away. So technically.... I can't move on because I have no money to do so! Ok let's be real... Yes I am more than fine. I'm happy, healthy, I've progressed well over the last 3 years... But.....

I'm just not sure how he continues to move on from this completely unscathed. Completely. Completely. Completely unscathed. He really sets himself up to be untouchable and it's always worked out in his favor.

[job]

Yes, your posting made it thru the glitch.

I'm sorry how things turned out, but you'll feel a weight lifted off your shoulders in the coming days. You don't realize just how much stress you've been under and now you don't have to be looking over your shoulder or waiting for the other to shoe to drop all of the time.

You are and will continue to be fine. It's one step at a time. As for your xh, it will catch up with him one day and it'll be too late because you will have moved on and he'll be stuck in the same old place of going absolutely no where fast.

[bttrfly]

Pax, don't waste precious time on this bum.

Do what you can legally to get the financials done.

Live the life you've been given back with all zest, freedom and joy that the universe can dispense and let whatever bad karma go to the person creating it. You're well out of a bad situation. It's only money - not your sanity, health, etc.

xoxoxo

[devvo]

I'm in exactly the same position. Divorced without a property settlement. Who on earth in the legal world comes up with these rules?!?!

XH is dragging his heels getting the settlement done and squared away. This, from the man who raced at breakneck speed to get me out of his life. He literally could not wait to erase me from his life - and now look where we are.

I sometimes wonder if he really is in MLC, so it's things like this that signpost it for me. He doesn't want me, but he doesn't seem to want to let me move out from what he thinks is his control. I guess all we can do is stir things up from time to time and hope like mad we don't unleash a hornet's nest.

[Pax_luv]

Hello DB friends,
Been a long while since I've posted. I still pop in when I can to get caught up, but haven't Had time to formulate any responses. Things should calm down soon, I hope. In the meantime, I hope you are well.

I've been thinking about ex husband for a few weeks now and I've gotten to the point where I may need some advice.

This is a very serious topic and not one I take likely, so here goes.....
What do you know about MLCers and suicide? Any particular warning signs?
I've read tons and tons on MLC and depression.
Here's the background on why I'm asking---

If you've followed along with my sitch you will know that ex is a mastermind when it comes to financial evasions.

One of my biggest fears during separation was that I knew ex really well and knew he would do ANYTHING not to lose. He was a "cut off his nose to spite his face" kind of guy.

Well, all my fears have come to fruition and it has been a nightmare of a divorce. It wasn't until the last few months that the court has intervened and told him to stop playing games. He also had financial sanctions placed on him.

Even with court orders, he is refusing to comply and I think he may be getting seriously backed into a corner. He can no longer stack lies on lies on lies and he has to start coming clean. I fear he may even be put in jail for contempt.

Knowing what I know of him, I have this underlying fear that suicide may be an option for him.... And when it pops up in my mind, I immediately push it aside and make excuses for my thoughts---- saying I'm just paranoid, recognizing that I will always love him and have concern for his wellbeing, etc. And I keep telling myself that for all I know he could be blissfully alright with everything and this divorce could be no more than nuisance he must deal with.

Here's the deal- I have zero insight into his life and I have no idea if he is happy. I dont know who is in his life right now and if they actually care for him (he's a really tough person to be around and not someone you can get close to). He's been depressed before and was on antidepressants. This was before I met him (not sure if it was after he left his first wife or before), his older brother died of a drug overdose when ex was a pre teen, though my ex thought it was intentional. This scarred him deeply. My ex talked about suicide and always said he would never do it because he was too chicken (he never attempted). He has guns. He had even written a poem about suicide before we were together and I had seen it, though I don't remember the context. He had meds for anti anxiety and claustrophobia. He had a huge fear of being trapped. Trapped in elevators, relationships, jobs, etc.

when we were married, he did not have a close relationship with his family. He had cut-off relatives (and vice versa) on both his moms and dads side of the family. He had surface-level relationships with his parents and sister and bro in law, but complained about them all. He seriously didn't have anything nice to say about any of them.

They also reiterated to me how difficult it was to be with him and told me I was a saint for putting up with him.

When we separated, they all cut me out completely, Clearly it runs in the family.

So, at the end of the day, unless this divorce has forced him to make changes and make amends with his family, I don't know if anyone is looking out for him and genuinely cares for him. I don't know if there's anyone in his life who would catch on to any warning signs (if he's displaying any to them).

With suicide being in the news a lot this past week... I can't help but get a sinking feeling in my gut. Ex is backed into a corner, he is probably feeling trapped and needs to find a way out. What is he going to do? Is he going to come clean so we can officially part ways of will he continue to evade? How much more evading can he do?

What I've stated above are major red flags, but im going off my relationship with him from the past. This is just me using insight into what I KNEW about him, as I know nothing about him now. His current actions certainly don't represent someone a-ok with their life.

We don't have a relationship at all. actually, up until about a month ago, he and I had not spoken to each other face to face in over a year and half and we were forced to over a dog issue. Since then, there has been zero contact again.

I've seriously considered writing him an email and just plainly asking him if he's ok. I've thought about asking him when I drop off the dog (I never actually see him). I'm not sure what to do or if I'm making something up. Truth is, I don't know who he is anymore. Maybe I am just paranoid.

Thoughts?

[ciluzen]

Hey Pax.
It sounds like you have been thinking a lot about this and are concerned. What you say makes sense and could very well be a possibility. The question is, what can or are you willing to do about it?

I hear the concern that you have for him as a fellow human being and as a person that you once loved intensely, and even as someone you still care about on some level after all that has happened. With all that is in the news and the inability to have that deep, intimate discussion with him due to the circumstances surrounding your relationship at this time, it sort of leaves you feeling concerned yet powerless. The fact is, with someone who is even in a loving relationship and is open about their feelings of wanting to die, it may not be possible for another to change their mind. It may happen anyway. You never know how strong the negative voice in someone's head is or how convincing.

With that said, what are you willing to do to to involve yourself in his life to ease your own mind? You could alert his family by saying just what you are saying now and include some resource literature in whatever means of notification you choose. You could reach out to him directly with your concerns, however that might be used against you or affect him in an unintended way. You could share your thoughts with your attorney and see what she/he suggests.

I have had those concerns, as well, about my own XH for quite a while. I was particularly concerned when he was going through his emergency health issues last summer.I was able to voice them to my daughters to alert them (they speak to him more often, for obvious reasons), but I'm at a place where I can still check in on him and listen.

If you are up to it, go ahead and ask him how he is doing. Sometimes all of the anger someone shows is coming from a source of pain and hurt and a feeling that they are unloveable. If you don't feel that anyone could honestly love you, then why would you believe that people who say they love you are honest? If they are not honest, then they are lying to you and it follows that they are after something from you to use you or hurt you. Its easier to be angry than to acknowledge the feeling of unworthiness. But its usually there. And that's the danger.So, with all that is going on, you might go ahead and show that you are concerned about him. Ask him how he is. You may get"fine" as your answer. Its up to you to ask further.

Divorce really can bring out the worst in people when fears and lack of understanding take over, and sometimes things are exacerbated by those "helping" the process. Good on you for looking past the anger of the process and still being able to see the person in the STBX. And for wanting to help him.You are pretty good at this "humanity" thing.

[ciluzen]

Oops. I'm embarassed to say I forgot your D was final. Sorry! So, totally disregard the attorney stuff. You're still good at the humanity thing, though.