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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Not sure what you mean by "should my approach be the same". Act as if you didn't know anything about it? I don't think that would be completely honest, do you? It's one thing for you to choose not to confront your WW about an A, and to focus on making changes on yourself. But to lie, if your W went to you so guilt-ridden she could not live with herself until she confessed her affair? No, I couldn't support that decision.



I should have expanded on this question a little bit.


What I meant was not acting as if you didn't know. I couldn't pull that off.

What I was asking is if the approach of telling her that I couldn't live in an open M, stating consequences if she contacts OM, transparency plan, etc. would change.

When my children confess their "sins" before I find out, the repercussions are not nearly as harsh as if they don't. Would the same apply here?


Maybe I should have simply asked "What would change in the discussion if she were to miraculously confess?"


M: 25 T:33
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S24, D21, D18, D15, S8 All living at home while going to school
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What I was asking is if the approach of telling her that I couldn't live in an open M, stating consequences if she contacts OM, transparency plan, etc. would change.


Okay......let's pretend she comes to you tonight and spills her guts. What should you do? IMHO, you would tell her you won't stay in an open M, so if she isn't prepared to be faithful and work on the MR.....then you will be meeting with a lawyer. She will either give an answer that is positive or negative.....that would direct you in how to continue the conversation. But I don't think a H should immediately go all melty-man and tell her he wants a chance to prove himself, or invite her to start a new MR with him, or any of that stuff, b/c she will see him as a wuss. He should show strength and sterness. If she agrees to end all contact with the OM, commit to working on the MR, and agrees to his terms......then they can go from there. Otherwise, he needs to follow through with his boundary, b/c she's not going to be faithful. A guilt-ridden confession does not wipe the slate clean. She still has to go through the process that I've previously explained. However, it would probably help, if she could feel guilt over her actions.

So, what if the confession comes in a few months from now? I would keep a poker face, and ask her if she is still contacting the OM, and if she is........then tell her you had suspected, and had hoped to make changes, but you cannot continue staying in a MR of three people.... if she refuses to end contact with OM. If she says the A has ended.......you basically tell her the same thing. If she wants to save the M, then add about NC with OM (and other stipulations you feel are necessary), and especially attending professional therapy with you.......and you choose the therapist.

It gets a little complicated trying to give a pat answer for scenarios. I mean if she approaches you in two years and confesses she was in an A but ended it a year prior to confession, are you going to lay down the terms of transparency? At that point, you've already lived with her for two years.....knowing/suspecting she was in an A! See what I mean? I suppose the sitch would determine the stipulations. But I think seeing a professional therapist to heal from an A, would definitely be in order.

Sorry, if I'm not giving short, simple answers. When you choose to stay and work on yourself and not confront her about the A.......it is not a short, simple, situation.


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Hi I am new and this is the first time that I post something. I am not sure if this is the right place to ask my question or if I should create a new thread..

I am separated since December. My wife left the house and rented an apartment by herself. I had been pursuing her for the past 8 months, calling her every day, getting her gifts, being kind, loving, etc. The more I pursued her, the more it seemed to push her away. Since last week, I decided to stop pursuing her and take care of myself instead. I haven't called her for a week now, and I don't intend on initiating any conversation any time soon.

I hope that things will turn around and we'll be able to get back together, but I don't keep my hopes very high. What I want to know is what to expect if she ever decides she wants us to reconcile the marriage. I am not sure I want to be with someone who could repeat the same thing again. I value commitment and am ready to work on the relationship, but from what I've seen the past year, my wife doesn't seem to value commitment as much. She was ready to give up on our 17 years of marriage way too easily.

I know it is too early to think about this now, but I am curious how did other people handle a reconciliation after going through such a difficult time. I am starting to feel that if she wants to come back one day, it will actually be up to me to decide if I want to take her back or not... Am I making any sense?


Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14
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Kiro,

Sorry to see you here.

I am no where the reconciliation point yet but hopefully will get there.

You would be better served by creating a new thread in this forum.

Everyone will see it there and you will get some good responses.

The best of luck to you!


M: 25 T:33
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Don't leave us. How are things going?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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I’m still here. Just been tied up with other things lately.

As far as how things are going, I’m not sure, sandi. Things have changed, but I'm not sure that they are real changes or not.

As far as GAL, I have gotten in contact with a few old friends and have been catching up on things. Unfortunately they live out of state, so getting together isn’t going to happen any time soon. I’ve gone out a few times, but nothing major. Work and commitments to the kids have kept me home more than I planned. I have been doing things around the house that are just for me though and have been spending a lot of time with S8 and D14 which has helped keep my spirits up.

I’ve been working on how I interact with my W and the image I project a lot. Even when I start getting depressed or mad about the sitch, I act as though I am happy. Not the easiest thing to do, but I’m doing it. That is where the kids are helping a lot without them knowing it. Our relationships have gotten much closer and are keeping me going. So much so that I actually have found myself getting a bit jealous when my W is laughing or doing something with one of them. I know that is irrational since I have made it clear to all of the kids that they don’t need to be sucked in to this and that they can have any kind of relationship with their mom that they want to have, but still it is there.

I am getting better at validating her feelings and listening more closely to what she is saying, which I think is playing a part in her attitude towards me. I’m not perfect at it yet and I am getting the feeling that she is trying to tell me something that I am not picking up on. She has said a few things that seem to be hints, but I am not quite sure.

My W’s moods have been up and down, as would be expected I suppose. Overall, she has been much friendlier and has started doing a few “wifely” things for me. In the last week has started talking to me a lot more. Don’t get me wrong, I know she is not back, but I am hoping she is softening a little bit. These changes came after I set boundaries a few times and a few words were said.

We had an argument about three weeks ago and this is when things started changing. It was a typical tit for tat type of argument, but I did some validating during it and drew a boundary. She brought up some things she has said in the past as well as a few new things, which I validated if I could. I also pointed out a few things she was/was not doing that she was also calling me out on. Not what I should have done if I was truly validating, but I did and it caused some changes.

During that argument she brought up in particular: Not doing things for her (she cleaned up a mess the dog made that I was unaware of so I did not help), not doing things with her, not telling her where I was going or telling her I was leaving (you were right, she does notice this) and I play on my phone and not talk to her (I stopped playing on my phone at home when she mentioned it in November).

In rebuttal I reminded her that she stopped doing anything for me last November (I mentioned making enough dinner for me to have some in particular), I did ask her out once (before I came here) but she said “no” even though I gave options so she could keep her plans with her friends that night, that I am not required to inform her of my activities especially since she does not do the same for me and I stopped playing with my phone, but she texts, plays on Facebook and watches TV on her phone and ignores everyone else.

As I said, tit for tat stuff, but some things changed afterward.

Since then she has changed the sheets on the bed (she sleeps on the couch) and makes enough dinner for everyone. She has even went as far as to make food for me specifically if there wasn’t enough left. One evening I was eating chili on the couch and she noticed I did not take any sour cream, which I normally do. She asked why and I told her it was already put away and I didn’t want to dirty another spoon. She joked that I always eat after things are put away and that I need some because I can’t afford to lose any more weight (I have lost 20 pounds since this started and I was borderline skinny before). This was the first time she has shown any sign of concern towards me for months.

A week later she was out most of the night Saturday. When Sunday rolled around she went grocery shopping with my car (D18) had hers at work. When she came home, D14 and I went to the store to get a few things I needed for work. When we got home just before 8pm, my W was watching something in the family room, so D14, S8 and I went in to the bedroom to watch a show they wanted to see. We stayed in there until bedtime. When I told my W goodnight, she said “nice seeing you” very sarcastically.

Finally, last week is when the biggest change occurred.

My W was putting together a banquet for the organization she is involved with for S8 and getting virtually no help from anyone, not even the OM who is the leader there. Needless to say she was stressed so I offered to help a bit. Not because I was looking for brownie points, but because it was for my son and I would have offered if everything was ok between us anyway. This was on a Wednesday.

The next day she sends a text to me telling me to do something on her vehicle. I respond “Please?” because she demanded I do something. She did not like the response and got sarcastic, which I guess I can’t blame her for. I told her that she could have asked instead of order me to and that I don’t like being told what to do. She said she didn’t mean to order me. I said I understand that now, but that is not the way it read.

She said that she would just go "cry for the millionth time and go on with life like I always do." I asked why she cried over that and she told me that I make her "feel like crap." She went on to say that She "literally cries all the time now" and that after our argument I mentioned above, she went in to our closet and cried for an hour. I of course said that I never mean to make her cry. She replied that she doesn't doubt that and she "doesn't really ever know the right thing to say to you anymore."

To that I replied that she could stop shutting me out and try letting me in. Mabey we could have a real conversation about anything other than the kids. She then asked how could she let someone in who always finds fault with wht she says. I validated this and told her that it is not my intent to do so.

Some of this I know she is really feeling, some of it she is "rewriting." I am very careful about keeping things positive, so making her feel like crap is probably from boundary setting. This is something she is not used to, so me taking more of a stand and telling her point blanc what I will and will not accept is very different to her. I am never mean about it, just stern and to the point.

As far as "crying all of the time," I don't know. After we had the argument that I mentioned above, I was in and out of the house the rest of the day and I saw her on each trip. It is possible that this happened when I went out for the evening. As I was leaving, I told her I was going out for a while and she had a look on her face that was somewhere between disbelief and sadness.

I probably went too far with the "let me in" line, but one of her complaints is that we never talk. As part of my 180's I've been trying to make it easier for her to talk to me, so my thought there was that I would give her permission to try. I'm not the one trying to initiate (for the most part), I'm just trying to be more approachable.

When I got home about an hour after this exchange my W was in the kitchen finishing dinner for her, D14 and S8. I greeted her and got a cool reception, but I acted as if nothing was bothering me and asked what needed to get done that night for the event. Afterwards I went to take care of a few things I needed to do. When I came back 30 mins. later, she had made dinner for me and told me to eat before it got cold. This was a surprise since it would have never happened before. After I ate I sat down to help her until I went to bed. During this time we had our first real conversation since this started in November.

The next night was the same thing. I came home, ate, helped her and we talked like adults. We even had a few laughs. At one point my W said something and I didn't hear what she said. I asked and she replied with a smile on her face, "see, you don't listen to me." She knew i just didn't hear it, but I think she was trying to tell me something.

The next morning while we were getting things ready for the event, I could have sworn I heard her call me "Hon." I dismissed it as me hearing the wrong thing. We drove separately so we only had to make one trip and while we were driving I called her to ask a question. During the call I thought she called me "Hon" again. When tearing down after the event, she called me "Honey" as I was walking away to something. I asked D21 and D14 if they heard it too or if I was just crazy. They both said that the heard it and that they had heard her call me "Hon" earlier. I can attribute once to being habit, but three times makes me wonder why.

Ever since then she has had a completely different attitude towards me and the kids. She talks and laughs with everyone and is actually paying attention to D14 and S8. Im not being treated as the enemy either. As I said, I know she is not back, there is a very long way to go and this could change at any time, but maybe she is starting to think about what she is actually doing to her family. On the other hand, she could just be trying to suck me in again.

I have been listening with my heart as you told me to do, sandi, but I am worried that she is trying to send me a message that I am missing. She has made it a point to tell me that I never spend time with or go out with her to do something, we don't talk, etc. I've been following the advice of everyone to not believe what she is saying, so I have been writing this off as just idle talk. After she said "you don't listen to me" the way she did, I've started wondering if I am not hearing everything. Is this just her digging in the past or talking out of guilt, or do you think there is something to it?


M: 25 T:33
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S24, D21, D18, D15, S8 All living at home while going to school
A confirmed: 12-25-17
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It's really good to hear from you.

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Work and commitments to the kids have kept me home more than I planned. I have been doing things around the house that are just for me though and have been spending a lot of time with S8 and D14 which has helped keep my spirits up.


I never have trouble finding work around my place. In fact, it seems to follow wherever I go. You are a homebody and a hard worker, so naturally, there will always be something you see that needs attention. Have you gotten the calendar out and planned some activities with the two youngest kids? I'm glad you are spending more time with them and the R is closer. You've just got put a little more effort into finding something fun to do. You know what they say about all work on no play, don't you? How can you expect someone like your W to be interested in a man who does nothing but work all the time? I can tell ya, that after a while, a W won't appreciate all that hard work......if her emotional needs are sacrificed in the deal. You say some of that work was for you........okay, if you say so. But can you tell me just one thing you did for fun, since the last time you posted? And don't you dare tell me you work for fun, b/c that's not good enough and won't pass for GAL. Women divorce men who do nothing but work!

Quote:
I’ve been working on how I interact with my W and the image I project a lot.


Great! That type of work ^^^^^^^ is A-okay.

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Even when I start getting depressed or mad about the sitch, I act as though I am happy. Not the easiest thing to do, but I’m doing it.


No, it's certainly not easy.

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That is where the kids are helping a lot without them knowing it. Our relationships have gotten much closer and are keeping me going. So much so that I actually have found myself getting a bit jealous when my W is laughing or doing something with one of them. I know that is irrational since I have made it clear to all of the kids that they don’t need to be sucked in to this and that they can have any kind of relationship with their mom that they want to have, but still it is there.


No, it doesn't sound irrational, but it concerns me. Wasn't it you that told me that your personal world had been pretty much narrowed down to your W and kids? If most of your friends live out of state, and you aren't out GAL......where do you get a sense of commrodery, except for your children? Perhaps you feel a threat of losing them whenever you see fun interaction with their mother. ((hugs))

Quote:
I am getting better at validating her feelings and listening more closely to what she is saying, which I think is playing a part in her attitude towards me. I’m not perfect at it yet and I am getting the feeling that she is trying to tell me something that I am not picking up on. She has said a few things that seem to be hints, but I am not quite sure.


Women are really bad to hint and speak in codes.......I'll be the first to admit it. IDK, I guess it's just something in our genetic make up. For some women, it makes them sound so pathectic to try and put into words what they really want.......and for the other women, they simply don't know how to tell their thick-headed H's...... in a way he can get it. wink Hey, that's what LBH's claim.......that their W didn't tell him in a way he could understand. Anyway, just keep doing what works.

Quote:
My W’s moods have been up and down, as would be expected I suppose. Overall, she has been much friendlier and has started doing a few “wifely” things for me. In the last week has started talking to me a lot more. Don’t get me wrong, I know she is not back, but I am hoping she is softening a little bit. These changes came after I set boundaries a few times and a few words were said.


Wonderful to hear! I suspect the boundaries and you standing up to her has a lot to do with the changes. Some wives, who have been ignored/neglected for a long time, are like kids. What I mean is that they act badly to get some type of attention from the H.......even if it's his negative attention. Just don't get too relaxed, and think everything is fine. However, this update is encouraging to hear.

Quote:
We had an argument about three weeks ago and this is when things started changing. It was a typical tit for tat type of argument, but I did some validating during it and drew a boundary. She brought up some things she has said in the past as well as a few new things, which I validated if I could. I also pointed out a few things she was/was not doing that she was also calling me out on. Not what I should have done if I was truly validating, but I did and it caused some changes
.

Okay........I think. (lol). You kind of lost me there on the end.

Quote:
During that argument she brought up in particular: Not doing things for her (she cleaned up a mess the dog made that I was unaware of so I did not help), not doing things with her, not telling her where I was going or telling her I was leaving (you were right, she does notice this) and I play on my phone and not talk to her (I stopped playing on my phone at home when she mentioned it in November)


As you've previously explained, you spent every spare minute working on something. If your W has felt neglected, not heard, not validated, and you didn't show her attentivness, then I think this her way of trying to tell you. A woman is like a flower. If you don't tend to her emotional needs, she'll turn ugly and die. I think you focused on working too much, and you started tuning out the things you considered as unimportant. One of worst habits a H can do is not listening to his W. It is so rude! Whether or not it's important to you......it was to her, and she is trying to connect to her H. If he won't listen to unimportant things, why would she want to share that which is intimate and personal with him? Having a H who doesn't hear her, destroys a woman's sense of value! It's the beginning of making her feel unappreciated, unimportant, and unloved by her H.

So, hopefully, you are improving in those areas^^^^^^^^. She wants you to show her she is still that special girl that has your heart. She wants you to do some action that simply says you care.........like cleaning up the dog mess. Listen, I think she wants and needs just the two of you to share in some activity that is not classified as "working". You know......like a few decades ago before all the kids came along?

I am not defending a woman who turns to another man while she is still M. But, I have to ask why you think she turned to someone else? She wants you to not only validate her, but praise her when she does something well. Notice her when she looks extra pretty. Share yourself with her. I think when a couple stops having pillow talk, they lose something very special in their relationship. I think her actions have been horrible toward you, but I also think she has tried to get your attention. I hope you are hearing me loud and clear.

Now, don't misunderstand me. I am not saying to smother her and slobber all over her. However, just start doing little things.......as an act of consideration (like when she took the sour cream to you). And for crying out loud, stop making her have to ask you to fix her car. I've told you that is a sore spot for women. It makes me angry and you aren't even my H! I'm not saying she should have ordered you to do whatever it was that she wanted........but had she already asked you to do it........like the last time there was a vehicle problem? Okay, I'll move on from that subject.

Compliment her on the cooking, or how you appreciate having fresh sheets. Compliment how she looks wearing a particular color, your favorite dress that she wears, or something about her appearance. Don't overkill. But just try it and see how she responds.

Have you noticed any changes about the EA? Is she contacting OM? If she is not contacting OM, then I have several suggestions in how you step up your game. But if you suspect the EA is ongoing, then I'll wait.

You still need to call her out whenever she shows disrespect. Don't stop doing what works.

I really think you have paid too much attention to working and neglected your W. Then, she gets cold and resentful and it becomes a tit for tat situation that runs into months and then years. It took her getting unbearable to live with, before you started looking for help. Now that you see first signs of improvement....don't go back into that old mold. If the EA has ended, and I pray it has........but want to hear your thoughts. Then we'll talk more.

Please don't wait so long to get back to us.


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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Have you gotten the calendar out and planned some activities with the two youngest kids?


Yes. The youngest two and I have a standing “date night” every week. It may just be stay home and watch movies, go to dinner, bowling or whatever they want. Both want to learn to shoot bows, so our next “date” is going to the Archery range.

Originally Posted By: sandi2
You say some of that work was for you........okay, if you say so.


The things I’ve been doing around the house are things I’ve been wanting to do for a long time but never have – start working out again, reading some books that I’ve never picked up and getting my workshop set up so I can restart a hobby I had when I was younger.

But yes, I have been working on the house too.

Originally Posted By: sandi2
But can you tell me just one thing you did for fun, since the last time you posted?


Without the kids away from the house? Ummmm…

Originally Posted By: sandi2
No, it doesn't sound irrational, but it concerns me. Wasn't it you that told me that your personal world had been pretty much narrowed down to your W and kids? If most of your friends live out of state, and you aren't out GAL......where do you get a sense of commrodery, except for your children?


Yes, that was me, and you are right.

Originally Posted By: sandi2
Perhaps you feel a threat of losing them whenever you see fun interaction with their mother. ((hugs))


You nailed it, and that is why I say it is irrational. I know I won’t lose them, but it feels like I will. They have always been closer to their mom for obvious reasons, so when I became the “preferred” parent, it felt good. They need that relationship with my W though, so it’s bittersweet.

Originally Posted By: sandi2
...and for the other women, they simply don't know how to tell their thick-headed H's...... in a way he can get it. wink Hey, that's what LBH's claim.......that their W didn't tell him in a way he could understand.


That’s exactly what happened here. I know now she had been trying to tell me, but I just didn’t get it.

The last real R talk we had was before S8 was born, so probably about ten years ago. Since then she had been telling me how wonderful I was and how lucky she was. The last time she did this was less than a week before the switch was flipped, so I was completely blindsided.

I guess I was just hearing the positives I wanted to hear and not the rest of what she was saying.

Originally Posted By: sandi2
Just don't get too relaxed, and think everything is fine. However, this update is encouraging to hear.


While I am happy with the changes, I am being very cautious and not getting my hopes up. I know it could all be back to the way it was in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted By: sandi2
Okay........I think. (lol). You kind of lost me there on the end.


I meant that my validation technique wasn’t very good at times. Some of the things I validated I also told her she was doing. How it resulted in changes I’m not sure.

Originally Posted By: sandi2
As you've previously explained, you spent every spare minute working on something. If your W has felt neglected, not heard, not validated, and you didn't show her attentivness, then I think this her way of trying to tell you. A woman is like a flower. If you don't tend to her emotional needs, she'll turn ugly and die. I think you focused on working too much, and you started tuning out the things you considered as unimportant. One of worst habits a H can do is not listening to his W. It is so rude! Whether or not it's important to you......it was to her, and she is trying to connect to her H. If he won't listen to unimportant things, why would she want to share that which is intimate and personal with him? Having a H who doesn't hear her, destroys a woman's sense of value! It's the beginning of making her feel unappreciated, unimportant, and unloved by her H.

So, hopefully, you are improving in those areas^^^^^^^^.


I am trying, but she is making it very, very difficult. She has been pushing away everything and as soon as I think she is starting to let me in, she slams the door again. It is very hard to tell if it is doing any good sometimes.

Originally Posted By: sandi2
She wants you to show her she is still that special girl that has your heart. She wants you to do some action that simply says you care.........like cleaning up the dog mess. Listen, I think she wants and needs just the two of you to share in some activity that is not classified as "working". You know......like a few decades ago before all the kids came along?


How do I do this and still follow the 37 Rules? Maybe I should suspend most of them for the time being?


Originally Posted By: sandi2
And for crying out loud, stop making her have to ask you to fix her car. I've told you that is a sore spot for women. It makes me angry and you aren't even my H! I'm not saying she should have ordered you to do whatever it was that she wanted........but had she already asked you to do it........like the last time there was a vehicle problem? Okay, I'll move on from that subject.


No, this was brand new and the first time she told me about it. It was just a blown fuse.


Originally Posted By: sandi2
Compliment her on the cooking, or how you appreciate having fresh sheets. Compliment how she looks wearing a particular color, your favorite dress that she wears, or something about her appearance. Don't overkill. But just try it and see how she responds.


I have actually been doing this for almost a month now, with the exception of her looks. There have been a lot of “thank yous” for little things and acknowledging when she does something for me. In return she has done the same for me.



Originally Posted By: sandi2
Have you noticed any changes about the EA? Is she contacting OM? If she is not contacting OM, then I have several suggestions in how you step up your game. But if you suspect the EA is ongoing, then I'll wait.


Yes I have, but I am 99% sure it is not over. I’m thinking she is just hiding it more or simply doesn’t care if she gets caught – she is leaving her phone unattended a lot more now.

Up until the past two weeks she had been on her phone in the evenings constantly when I am home. She was on Facebook, Netflix, Youtube and texting the OM mainly. Now, she checks Facebook and gets on Youtube some (not as much) and is not texting much at all. I have a feeling she is texting him when I am not home or after I have gone to bed but for some reason not in front of me anymore. It will be very hard to tell until the A is called out. She is the treasurer of the organization they are both in, so they talk about that quite a bit.

It could be that she suspects I know or it could be cooling down. I’m not sure. I stopped checking the text logs because it was just driving me crazy.

It could also be that D14 and S8 have flat out told her that they do not like the OM one bit, so she could just be hiding it from them as well.

I am taking all the improvements with a grain of salt at this point and not getting my hopes up. Just one day at a time…


M: 25 T:33
Me: 48 W: 49
S24, D21, D18, D15, S8 All living at home while going to school
A confirmed: 12-25-17
EA Definite PA Probable
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 132
R
rminer Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 132
Ok, I did what you said and asked my W out. After a little hemming and hawing, she said yes. That was three days ago.

In the morning she was not in the best of moods when I got home from taking D18 to school. The night before we were talking while watching TV and everything was still fine, so I wasn’t sure what would cause the sudden mood change.

Her mood stayed about the same the rest of the day until after I went to pick D18 up. On the way home she told me that she and D21 were going to an Honors Banquet for D21 and that she was receiving an award. About an hour later my W sees D18 and D21 walking down the driveway to leave and asks where they were going dressed up. D14 tells her. Of course my W got extremely mad asks why we were not invited. I had already asked D21 about it and did not want to tell my W why, so I just told her that I had found out about it when I picked up D18, so I didn’t know.

A short while later both my W and I had to go pick up a vehicle. On the way she was still upset about not being invited and was venting about it, saying that the kids are “unappreciative” of anything she does. This went on the entire drive.

I had been thinking of asking my W to dinner since you suggested we do something together and this would be the last day for several weeks that we could possibly go out. I was a bit nervous about it, but about a mile from our destination I mustered up the courage to ask her to dinner.

The first thing out of her mouth was “What?! You want me to go somewhere with my hair looking like this? Where to, McDonald’s? I can’t go anywhere.” I made a joke about being rejected and told her I just thought maybe she might like to go to dinner and she said yes, “but we have to go home to fix my hair first.”

Once we got home she immediately started getting ready to go and I went to start a fire (did I mention we heat with wood?). An hour later we were finally ready to go. She had put on a nice pair of black jeans, nice blouse, hair done, perfume, makeup, just like when she goes out with her friends – or on a date.

We decide on a place to go and she wasn’t overly talkative on the way keeping it to small talk. We arrive, I open the door for her and she makes a comment about how men don’t do that for women anymore and thanks me.

We were seated and my W immediately orders a Margarita. I wasn’t planning on drinking, but I decided I needed something to loosen me up, so I ordered one too.

We started out talking about the menu and what we wanted. She brought up a Mexican restaurant that we always went to when we were dating in High School. I smiled and reminded her about the dish she always ordered and she added “and I always gave you my beans.” We talked about that place for a few minutes and got back to ordering.

Once we ordered she started talking. It started out with small talk until I asked about one of her friends who is having marriage problems. I have mentioned her before – the one who’s H is treating her exactly like my W is treating me (minus the A) and my W says needs to divorce him but always has an excuse why she can’t. We talked about that for a little bit and the conversation naturally starts changing topics.

We were talking about S8 and I mentioned that he asked me to teach him how to ride his bike this summer. We live where there are no sidewalks, so he has had a hard time getting the hang of it. I said that I would need to take him to the park where it would be easier. My W agreed and said that she would like to have a bike. I told her I would as well, so maybe we should get some and we could go for rides, she said it was a good idea.

For quite a while we were talking and laughing about all sorts of different things having really good conversation. It was fun.

At some point, and I can’t remember what we were talking about, she said “If we are still together.” This is where the R talk started. I asked if she was thinking about D and she said “I don’t know.” She said that we don’t want the same things and I replied that I think we do. “I want to travel and do things, but you don’t” was her answer and I said we have talked about doing that after the kids are grown and our parents are gone (besides, we don’t have the money and she knows this). She also said that we never talk about the future and that we can’t seem to get the house finished.

She went on to say that I don’t seem to like who she is now and that I never want to be with her. I asked why she thought I have always sat in the living room instead of another room. “So you can cuddle with D14” was her response (D14 likes to sit on the couch and put her head on my shoulder when watching TV lately). I then asked why I would ask her out if I didn’t like being with her. She said “I thought you were just being nice.”

The R talk kept going for a few more minutes and the conversation started to switch back to more basic things. Then the alcohol started catching up to her and she became much more loose with what she was saying.

She started telling me about Facebook and how when she changed her profile picture she started getting friend requests from men she did not know and how one that she did accept now messages her and professes his love for her.

My W went on to tell me about the things she does when she goes out and where she goes with her enabling friend. She said “You think I spend a lot of money when I go out, but I only buy one or two drinks. The rest I get for free.” I ask how and she tells me that the bartenders give them to her or someone will buy them for her. I say “So you flirt to get free drinks.” “Yeah, why not?” is how she answered.

She told me a bit more of her evenings out and all but said that she gets high now too. That in itself doesn’t bother me because I’ve never been against it, but it illustrates just how much she has embraced the “Party Girl” lifestyle. Six months ago she would not have even thought of doing any of this. You are right, sandi, she is not the girl I married.

She went on to tell me about the tattoos she is going to get. I knew about two of them – one for her deceased brother and one with D21 (who now says that she is not getting at tattoo with my W because of this sitch). She then shows me a picture of a tattoo she is going to get with her enabling friend and where she wants to get it. I don’t particularly like tattoos and she knows this. I don’t tell her not to do it, but I don’t sound overly enthused either. She went on to tell me that she is getting all three of them and that she is almost 50 years old so she can do what she wants. She also essentially said that she is doing it because I once told her that “she wasn’t going to get a tattoo” and that when someone tells her she can’t do something she is going to do it. For clarification, I have never told her she couldn’t get a tattoo. I have just told her that I am not a fan of them but I understood one for her brother and D21.

I think she could tell talking about her bar nights and tattoos was starting to aggravate me, so she changed the subject and asked if I had told S8 that he couldn’t quit the organization he is in. I said “no” and asked if he had told her that he wanted to quit. My W said he hadn’t, but she had told him that he couldn’t quit because he said that he liked karate better (they have conflicted with each other a few times lately). I didn’t tell her this, but S8 has told his siblings he wants to quit because of the OM.

From there it progressed in to general things about the organization and the OM, but not in the context of the A.

She started telling me about how his son wants to quit, but the OM will not let him and how the son has not shown up to any of the meetings for the kids his age, which is upsetting and embarrassing the OM since he is the assistant leader there. She kept talking about this for a few minutes and then started talking about what they had planned for next year. This was supposed to be the OM’s last year as leader, so I stated that I thought he was stepping down to take over at the higher level. My W said he was supposed to, but “I am making him stay.” I asked why and she said that there is no one to take over and that the organization would dissolve if the OM didn’t. She said that they can’t get anyone to volunteer for lower positions let alone leader, so “she made him stay.” I asked if it has been made clear to all of the parents that help is needed because no one has ever mentioned to me that they need volunteers (even before the A). My W said that it has been made clear to everyone so I pointed out to her that I am there more than most parents, so if I didn’t know I’m sure there are many others who don’t either.

During this conversation my W was pretty tipsy and started telling me things about the OM and his family that were way too personal for their relationship to be strictly professional. At one point my W called the OM’s W “a real piece of work.” This was the third time I have had confirmation that the OM is married.

We had been at the restaurant for almost three hours at this point and they were closing. We left and had to go to the store to pick up a few things my W needed for dinner the next day. On the way the conversation continued about volunteers and how no one will help. My W said that they needed someone to run one of their main events next year or else it will not happen and once again said that the organization would dissolve if OM didn’t stay on. I asked about time commitments and what exactly would be involved and the requirements. I said that depending on the requirements, I might be willing to take over as leader. She told me, but made it clear that the OM was staying for the next year.

When we were at the store we continued talking about things. Still well under the influence of the Margaritas, she made the comment that “we could just have an open marriage so I can get what I want and you can get what you want.” I didn’t say anything but I did give her the “over my dead body” glare. She laughed and told me that I should see the look on my face.

When we got home and were walking in to the house, I told her that I had fun with her. She didn’t answer and started talking to S8 who greeted us at the door. I figured she was ignoring the comment, so I didn’t repeat it. I went to the basement to load the furnace, she went to change her clothes. By the time I came upstairs, my W was sleeping on the couch.

One thing that I did not fit in to the story above is that I did compliment her appearance. When I did, she said “Thanks, but I know you hate my hair straightened,” which I do (my W has beautiful hair and she looks SO much better with it wavy). I replied “I do prefer it not straightened, but it still looks nice.” She then said that she gets a lot of compliments when she straightens her hair, so I told that her hair is beautiful and she has always gotten compliments on it no matter how she wears it. She smiled.

Overall, it was a fun evening. I spent four hours with my W alone for the first time in over five months and actually shared ideas and got to know each other a little better. I tried to make it all about her and let my W do most of the talking.

Whether it was a success, I’m not sure. She showed the rebellion I have heard about here, but also opened up a little bit so I don’t know what to think at this point.

The next day we had a very long text conversation about our R. I won’t give the blow by blow on it because of length, but I will hit the highlights.

While I was at work, my W sends a text to me - a one liner with a grocery store item. I asked if it was what she forgot the night before and she said “Yep.” I reply and she comes back with another one word answer. I ask if she is feeling a little less stressed than the day before. Another one word answer. I then ask if she is not feeling very talkative today. She replies “Just trying to figure out how to be happy again.”

I told her that I know she is. I added that she didn’t respond the night before, but I hope she enjoyed dinner. She asked “Respond to what?” I told her that I had said that I had fun with her when we were walking in to the house, but she didn’t respond. My W said that she “didn’t realize” and said that “I did enjoy going out with you, but things are different.” She added that she was going to thank me but fell asleep before I came upstairs and then said “thank you.”

I told her that I was glad she did and agreed that things are different, but we can figure this out if we want to. I also said that I wasn’t putting pressure on her, but if she wanted to do more things together I would be willing to. I then commented on the night before and that the Margaritas were stronger than average.

My W then said that she has always wanted to spend time with me but she thought I was tired of being with her after all this time. She then replied to the comments about the night before.

I then told her that she was the only one I have ever wanted to spend time with and that she and the kids are the most important things to me. Another comment about the night before saying we should go back again when we want a little tequila.

She then said that for so many years the house is where I spent all of my time and agrees we should go back.

I acknowledge that and tell her that I regret the house more than she will ever know. I go on to tell her that my only reason for working on it so much is that whenever I complained about it she would tell me that the house is exactly what she wanted and that she loves it. My only thought was making her happy with it. I then told her that I secretly dreamt about walking away from it or it being destroyed so we could.

She then told me that the place she lives isn’t important and that she just wanted to spend time with her family. My W went on to say that she resents the house because it took me away from her and the kids and that it seems that we won’t ever get away from that house.

I comment back that I thought the house was what she wanted, so I have killed myself trying to give it to her. All I ever wanted to do was make her happy.

She replied that she has been trying to tell me for years that the house is killing us but felt I wouldn’t/couldn’t walk away at any cost.

I then said that I have been trying to tell her the same thing. We haven’t heard what each other has been saying and that no house is worth my family.

She then said that she “hopes these revelations are not too late.” I told her that I hoped too and that if we take the time to figure it out, we still have a chance.

My W then said that she really doesn’t know and that she gave up a long time ago. She added that we have both changed a lot, that she feels I don’t like who she is now and that I only want and love the girl from long ago.

I replied that everyone changes and that is what keeps it interesting and that I want to love her for who she is. I also said that what I don’t like is not being included.

She explained that she stopped asking me to go places because I was always working or worried about money. She started feeling rejected. She then asked me if I wanted to go to a movie that night with her and D14.

I validated this and told her I never rejected her and that I was sorry I made her feel that way and accepted the movie invite.

She told me that she felt the house was the death of what we had together. She understood that I wanted to make everything good for her and the kids, but she started to feel I was too proud to let it go – that I would rather have the house than her.

I told her that it wasn’t pride. It was my commitment to her and not letting her down. I never wanted anything more than her.

My W then said “Maybe if we had talked more we would have understood each other more.”

I agreed and said that we need to stop speaking in code.

She agreed to that, but said “So much has happened between us I don’t know how to fix this, or if it can be fixed.”

I acknowledged she feels this way and told her I don’t know for sure how to fix it, but I do know that if we don’t try, we can’t. Communicating like this is a good start though. I then asked “Isn’t that part of why this all happened in the first place?”

She agreed it was.

I replied that if we know that and we stop going down that road, it should open the door to figuring out the rest.

She said that maybe things are too broken to be fixed.

I said “Only if one of us wants them to be” and that it will take both of us.

My W came back with “I’m very skeptical you know. I had completely given up.”

I told her I know she is, but now that we each know some of what the other is thinking, we have a place to start. Neither one of us has ever given up easily on anything and our family is worth fighting for.

She then said that she has put up so many walls because she doesn’t want to be hurt anymore and that she “thought we were going to be divorced for sure, that it was just a matter of time.”

I agreed that she had built walls and that they were very high. I don’t think either of us wanted to hurt the other, I was sorry for hurting her and that I wished I had known I was. I went on to say that we now know the root cause of the problems, so we can avoid them in the future. I added that maybe it was time to take down some of the walls and start to build something new.

My W replied that she had built them so high “so I could block you out entirely so I couldn’t be hurt any more” and that she had started to live life without me because “I thought that’s what I was going to have to do.”

I told her that “I know your reasons” and that we don’t have to live life without each other if we don’t want to, nothing is set in stone and that I think there is something left that we can work with.

As I said, it was a very long conversation – it took most of the day. Other things were said, but those are the major highlights. At times my W sounded to me like there was no chance, and other times she sounded like she was willing to consider working on things. Her verbiage changed as we talked to sounding more positive to me, but I could just be reading in to it.

I probably said way more than I should have, but I was finally getting her to open up a little bit and tell me what was on her mind. It turns out it was in large part me working on that house so much just like you said.

When I got home that night she was kind of quite. We went to the movie and I sat next to her with D14 on my other side (D14 made sure we sat that way). We talked some while we were out, but not a ton. Last night when I got home, she was back to talking to me like she has been for the past few weeks.

So what do you think of the two interactions?

What should be my next move?


M: 25 T:33
Me: 48 W: 49
S24, D21, D18, D15, S8 All living at home while going to school
A confirmed: 12-25-17
EA Definite PA Probable
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 132
R
rminer Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 132


M: 25 T:33
Me: 48 W: 49
S24, D21, D18, D15, S8 All living at home while going to school
A confirmed: 12-25-17
EA Definite PA Probable
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