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Thread 1. http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2770108#Post2770108

Still would like advice thoughts on previous thread posts towrd end
My goals
Messaging to parents friends and kids

If LRT is being implemented correctly or is I am in fact as I suspect making a mess of it by being too detached cold.

We are about to have another communication dscussion and I’m torn in half between going along with her (to DB do 180 as coach suggested and trying to negotiate for a more realistic version like I want us to tell kids.

I am planning to tell her about kids messaging today. I’m not sure about parents messaging and Have to make a decision.


Me 47
STBXW 44
M ~20
D13
S15
BD mid 17
A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr
OM decade older
S Imminent
D Soon after

Be the rock that can weather the storm...
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Did you actually read about LRT?

The basic concept is that you have fallen off the face of the planet.

How is anything you are doing “Too cold”?

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Well just finished 2nd discussion @ messaging to family and kids.... I asked why she’s so afraid of anyon knowing details... she feels no good can come of it... and it will just cause people to take sides. Vs just being collaborative etc.

She talked a lot about actions vs impact. What impact will this have and if there’s nothing positive in terms of impact there’s no point to this.

She still thinks that her P will still welcome me with open arms and that I’ll ALWAYS have kids to her P on one certain holiday she doesn’t care about... whereas she’ll always have them on another more important one... I don’t agree with either the schedule or the fact that A) her parents are going to welcome me with open arms or B) that I would even feel comfortable going back to their place w/kids after (she tried to say but if this is what kids really wanted, you could find a way... I said maybe you just take him them and I don’t ever see them on holidays as I’m not sure I could do it... she tried to convince me I’ve been at their place b4 without her... I said this is WAY different.)


Wish I had listened to all of you and just kept my mouth shut... we then discussed M again and counseling and how she’s out of marriage and I am in...
She admittted it’s really hard as she doesn’t know what I’m doing etc. I mentioned we could both start being honest.
Brought A up as example of how she’s not being honest with me .. said tell me honestly you are going to his place weekly and talking to OM daily... she said she didn’t want to get into it...I pointed out she just confirmed it by refusing to deny it.

Pointed out that this is prime reason she won’t try.... how things could be different.... why it’s impirtant to try... basically all the things that I was trying to avoid etc. as for some f’ed up reason I had hope of getting through to her.
She still refuses to admit that OM has ANYTHiNG to do with her leaving but says she is going to have to accept that I will always blame her and it as reason.
I Tried to say there’s a lot of things that led us here but this is propelling you forward...

Ended up with some catharsis and hug/cry but then she got back on even keel and went back into anything I said being an example of more of the same behavior and how it just shows her that we could never be together etc.
She refused to accept that counseling might bear fruit as she feels she never was happy in our M and how everything I talked about with our common interests are only external things when she needs/wants someone to be there with/for her day to day. I acknowledged this pattern from past and tried to explain how I understand thist now etc. she sees all changes as being reactionary and even if they are not, still not what she wants as she doesn’t feel “good “ around me (go figure with OM in picture and having given up prior to even telling me she was unhappy.)

She talked about how she had a hole in her heart and when someone showed a little interest she thought maybe She could be happy all of the time vs just brief sparks here and there. Admits it wasn’t right, but refuses to stop/change as she deserves to be happy and (my words) he makes her happy.

Talked about how this has and continues to take a toll on her day to day and how hard it is to function at work.
How hard it is not knowing what I’m doing etc. (I told her what I did last night and how little I actually spent (as financial infidelity is one of her complaints). I invited her to be honest with me as well and let’s work on communication and future...

She said let’s just focus communication on moving forward collaboratively/constructively and doesn’t understand why I keep pulling her back into this. Talked about how our M will never make her happy and how we both just need to recognize and move on ( I tried to point out I agree I don’t want what we had either but believe in possibility of much better future) How incredibly hard what she’s doing is but how important it is for her to be happy.... I tried to explain how the more difficult path would be to work together on something as important as our marriage... and why... but at the end of the day she tried for years to get me to change.... eventually she just gave up hope and that’s when the hole in her heart opened and A started when someone paid attention to her and made her feel good about herself.
How I never made her feel good about herself. Etc.
How even now with my changes she hopes I am doing them for myself but it still doesn’t feel good to her.

I explained that I have worked almost nonstop on M since I understood she was unhappy. The changes have been for both. I realized I needed to change AND she didn’t deserve any of the behavior I leveled at her for years; which is why it’s all stopped.

She Also talked about How she wants to be fair with me,

I am now seeing that the M is beyond saving, it’d take a miracle like OM blowing it big time or having a heart attack to make any dent.

Know what you all will say about how I blew it today. Don’t know why talking about communication to her P and mine and Kids causes me to keep doing this... I know that this is a marathon... and now see after 2 weeks of this pattern that there is no stopping this from going forward (she’s truly given up hope and moved on and refuses even consider a possible future Except as co-parents)
She fears that I’ll hold A over her and tell everyone, which will make everyone side with me and not see care about the years of unhappiness she had with me.

I told her that I heard her words last week asking me for forgiveness, and wanted her to know that I have forgiven her for everything from past and even now for A BUt I don’t think I can/will ever be able to for what’s coming (leaving me for OM).

Also know that this was a big mistake but wanted her to know what’s in my heart.
That I still care for her and feel we could work on M.

She told me she signed lease last Friday... and I said nothing... just shook my head (she said I told you I’d be honest with you and I went with your timeline of feb)

Me asking her to move to spare room may have been the right choice but it doesn’t feel like it right now as it feel like it’s llowed her to pull it gen farther away.

I talked about how I know her finding an act I setup several years back on online hookup site hurt herand how sorry I was about this (she found it and held off confronting for years; and I never once contacted a single person on it as explained earlier in thread) told her that I’d even take lie detector to prove to her I’ve not once touched another woman since we started dating and furthermore even now could t do that to her even in spite of what she’s doing as I know how this would hurt her and I couldn’t do that to her.

She said if she felt like these discussions were moving us further along she’d be ok with them but she feels it’s more likely that anything she says will be thrown back in her face later. (I have no intention of this at all).

I see her point with family now. What good can one of saying more than we’re getting divorced (I did say I didn’t like her statement about being private).

She challenged me to provide different text. Got a bit mad that I’m using time off to improve self, when she’s working her ass off to provide for us and hopes I will have a job soon (as do I).

I have no intention of outing her A to friends/kids. But I am pretty ok with saying she left me we had problems for a long while and she’s checked out MLC etc.

Feel free filet me have it for screwing up again...

I’m getting to point I just want this to be over frown

Maybe I’m just feeling sorry for myself but, I can’t stop what’s coming, I can/am gradually making it worse (she admitted that everything is pushing her back into M but she is fighting like hell as she believes she deserves to be happy (my words:we just have diff opinion on how we could/should take a shot at being happy).

I know I deserve better than this (I explained to her why I’ve tried so hard to save marriage beyond it being the right thing to do; she did try for years to get me tofeel/be different and it wasn’t until AFTER she walked that I made any changes... I explained that she tried really hard when I didn’t, I’m trying really hard while she’s not, but we’ve never tried hard together; also explained how This is just one reason among many others being how I feel about her still. I have a growing hole in my heart and really just want someone who wants to be with me for who i am.

The really f’ed up thing is I have listened to LRT course from MWD about 9 times now and even reread stuff in DR. But when push came to shove today I dropped all of this and put pressure on her thinking I my heart I could get throught to her (speaking from my heart) vs just accepting M death and D (which you all tried like hell to tell me and I thought I had listened to, but failed miserably on today.)

More than anything in the world I want a chance to make this right for her/us/kids/family... but reality is I killed off whatever love she had for me long ago.


Me 47
STBXW 44
M ~20
D13
S15
BD mid 17
A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr
OM decade older
S Imminent
D Soon after

Be the rock that can weather the storm...
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Posts: 203
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Hermes Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Kaizen
Did you actually read about LRT?

The basic concept is that you have fallen off the face of the planet.

How is anything you are doing “Too cold”?


Thought it was about not engaging with her but when she approaches mend kind and generous but reserved with responses....

Not going “dark”


Me 47
STBXW 44
M ~20
D13
S15
BD mid 17
A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr
OM decade older
S Imminent
D Soon after

Be the rock that can weather the storm...
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H,

Again nothing really changes. You screwed up and you know you screwed up so just dust yourself off and get back up.

Focus on your kids. A just take it one day at a time.

Accept your marriage is over and try to figure out how you want in life moving forward.

It will get better with time. I promise you!

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Yes picking self back up... but feeling a bit down because of how this continues to deteriorate...

Going back to LRT... not sure if it's making any difference either way... but doing nothing surely won't.

Once you accept M is over... not sure why I've fought this notion so d*mn hard... really don't want my kids, family etc to be hurt when I feel deep down it's not the right thing to do.

But WW stated her position clearly... she sees why I want to try again... nothing changes for me... but she can't put her happiness on hold any longer ("says OM isn't reason... and that may be... but he's making her "happy" right now and for her that's the most imp. thing.)

She disagrees vehemently with me saying to kids We've disagreed about a great many things recently and this is no different. But when one person wants to remain married and the other does not, we cannot remain married... (and if they ask who's who, letting them know it isn't important and what's important is that we both have agreed and will always agree on them being one of the best decisions we ever made together).

I think it's imp. as to say we're getting divorced is a lie (she's D me and I'm being D). and they WILL find out eventually (she takes this as I'm planning to tell them... which isn't true... but this is what MWD says and she says when this happens they will feel betrayed and angry with spouse who wanted to remain M).

I don't want them to hate their mother... I also don't want them to hate me. (I know they are likely to blame me as they see their Mom sleeping in spare room downstairs... have heard us arguing in past... and when she moves out they are HIGHLY likely to blame me for "making her leave" which will truly break my heart as this is the last thing I ever wanted, and I know in my heart and head that I can't "sell her out" to kids as they need their mother and I don't EVER want them to become pawns between us. She says she doesn't want them to be turned against me either and has worked "hard" to ensure that doesn't happen...(I didn't point out S15 grilling me about why I didn't take Mom to event or sell tickets, or why I wouldn't tell her who I took... or how he sees she's really upset with my Behavior going "OUT" and he's asking me to tone it back or consider not doing this as It's really Upsetting her)...
I see this as a direct contradiction to what she stated...

sigh


Me 47
STBXW 44
M ~20
D13
S15
BD mid 17
A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr
OM decade older
S Imminent
D Soon after

Be the rock that can weather the storm...
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 203
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Hermes Offline OP
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what I truly want (at some point) is someone who loves and cherishes me and that I can as well... It's all I think any of us want out of life... That said; not sure how long it will take b4 I ever get to place where I feel I can actually TRUST another woman after this... the A and it contributing in what I perceive to be a LARGE way... Not sure I EVER want to be that vulnerable again with anyone where they can hurt me like this.


Me 47
STBXW 44
M ~20
D13
S15
BD mid 17
A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr
OM decade older
S Imminent
D Soon after

Be the rock that can weather the storm...
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
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Originally Posted By: Hermes
She still thinks that her P will still welcome me with open arms

But - why would you WANT to hang around with her parents? Im sure down the line that youll have plenty of time to spend with your parents or your future significant other's family. If your kids want to see them, then she can take them.

Originally Posted By: Hermes
Wish I had listened to all of you and just kept my mouth shut... we then discussed M again and counseling and how she’s out of marriage and I am in...

Maybe now is time to STOP telling her that "You are in".

Like I said before, she has absolutely zero fear that you would reject her if she did come back. That takes away ALL of her incentive to ever want to come back.

Originally Posted By: Hermes
She admittted it’s really hard as she doesn’t know what I’m doing etc. I mentioned we could both start being honest.
Brought A up as example of how she’s not being honest with me .. said tell me honestly you are going to his place weekly and talking to OM daily... she said she didn’t want to get into it...I pointed out she just confirmed it by refusing to deny it.

How hard it is not knowing what I’m doing etc. (I told her what I did last night and how little I actually spent (as financial infidelity is one of her complaints). I invited her to be honest with me as well and let’s work on communication and future...

WHAT?!?!

Its hard that SHE doesnt know what YOU are doing? Who gives a crap whether its 'hard' for her? Make it clear that the children are cared for. Otherwise, why on earth does it matter if she knows what youre doing. Its better for you if she doesnt know. Why in the heck would you want to share the details of your GAL with her?

Do you see how she wants you on her hook? She batted her eyelashes at you and you told her everything you are doing. She doesnt want to be with you....but she sure as hell wants you to stay available to her in case she changes her mind later. And every time you open your mouth, you show her that you will be.

Originally Posted By: Hermes
She refused to accept that counseling might bear fruit

If shes already checked out....it wont.

Originally Posted By: Hermes
I explained that I have worked almost nonstop on M since I understood she was unhappy. The changes have been for both.

If she doesnt want a marriage, then you saying that you want to change for her/M just reinforces that in your mind she is the bad guy. Stop pushing the M on to her.

Originally Posted By: Hermes
and now see after 2 weeks of this pattern that there is no stopping this from going forward (she’s truly given up hope and moved on and refuses even consider a possible future Except as co-parents)

Yeah. These are her feelings now. But they could change. But every time you have this sdame talk it starts you back over at 0. You are so inconsistent, she cant actually trust any of these changes. They all feel like a trick. A trap.

Originally Posted By: Hermes
I’m getting to point I just want this to be over frown

Untiul you learn to take control of yourself and to detach....it will never actually be over.

Originally Posted By: Hermes
Maybe I’m just feeling sorry for myself but, I can’t stop what’s coming, I can/am gradually making it worse

YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IS COMING.

Who knows what will happen tomorrow or next week or next month or next year.

All I can say with 100% certainty is that you are making this worse with these talks.

Originally Posted By: Hermes
More than anything in the world I want a chance to make this right for her/us/kids/family... but reality is I killed off whatever love she had for me long ago.

This IS your chance. Stop following every word SHE says and start listening to the advice you are getting and actually follow it.

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H,

You threw DBing out the window. Every time you have a talk about the M, the A, or the R, you push her further away. You have to detach and let her go.

Its hard as hell, the people on this board know as well as anyone. We also know that DBing is the best way to Get you sanity back.

So now This is the second time you have had this type of talk since you been here, with the same results. You can talk to her for two hours, two weeks or two months, your words will never change her mind. You have to lead with actions and actions only.

Get back on the DBing horse and start working. Stop telling her what you doing for GAL. Is she telling you what she is doing with the OM? I bet not. Stop trying to win her back and make her doubt leaving you. Make yourself a person a fool would leave. Make her come after you. It's only going to happen after you let go and you Get STRONGER and not dependant on her. Take your life back and let her see how wonder for your life is without her.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Hi Hermes. I totally get where you are coming from and I'm on approximately the same timeline. These are some things that have helped me (a lot!):

EVERYDAY do something good and healthy for yourself. i.e. connecting with friends, partaking in a hobby you like, etc.

Do NOT have any emotional discussions with your spouse. ONLY talk logistics. Be polite and friendly with those, but do NOT respond if she tries to bait you with emotive stuff. You will feel better about yourself.

"Act as if" you are a person with self-respect who is over the relationship. Even though you feel the opposite of that. Ask yourself before you engage with her "How would I act if I had self-respect and was over her"?

I am also working with a coach and using LRT and have found it beneficial for my sanity and moving forward regardless of how husband reacts. Do not beg, give her space. She's on her own journey and you have ZERO control over how she handles it. All you can do is control your own actions and words. And the ONLY response is to take care of yourself, act as if you are moving on, and treat yourself with self respect. GAL. That is your only chance for your marriage and your happiness. Keep the focus on yourself. You can't get into her head and it will only make you crazy anyway. Get out and do stuff. Even if it all feels completely hollow. "Act as if.." because eventually it won't feel hollow.

Regarding telling kids. My therapist told me it's perfectly fine to let the kids know who initiated. The main thing the kids need to know is that they are still loved by both of you and that it wasn't their fault. They need to know what will change for them and what won't. Encourage them to ask questions because they will be stunned. My 14 year old asked me if he needed to get a job since Dad is leaving. You have no idea what's going on in their heads, so you need to encourage them to talk. She doesn't get to decide everything. YOU COUNT TOO!


DB August 6, 2017 after 3 month separation
Me: 54
H: 58
Two Teenage sons
Living Separately from H
Married 19 years, together 22 years
Not sure if this is an MLC or WAS
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