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Originally Posted By: JustSad
She is convincing herself that our marriage was a farce, that no one was happy, she even used the phrase "you terrorized us". She was referring to me dealing with the financial crisis that cost us our business and our home and the anger I felt during this time. This anger was not AT my family, it was at the situation, but it was present. I have apologized, we are beyond that, and there is really nothing left to say on that. I would gladly work on this more in the future. We have been together for 21 years, have 2 great kids, and have had an amazing life together. Definitely a roller coaster with the last decade of health issues, children (not a bad thing at all but this does change the home dynamic), then the financial crisis, and just life. Way more than most, but always knowing there are those that are dealing with things way worse than what we have.


Very very common. WASs always rewrite history. It is part of the WAS fog they go through. "We never should have got married." "We were never happy." "I have tried to make things work for X number of years and you didn't care." "You are too controlling."

Bottom line is that she was unhappy and she is blaming you for the bulk, if not all of, that unhappiness. Totally normal when it comes to WASs. Don't argue with her. Read Cadet's link for Validation. Use validation tactics. Any protestations you put up to these statements will come across to her as more "terrorizing".


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Originally Posted By: JustSad
Just looking for some thoughts on how to handle this friend that is kind of feeding into this "fantasy" my wife is trying to create. Now, please, before you chastise me for saying my wife leaving is just a fantasy I am referring to her totally blocking out the reality of this and how it is going to affect her. Currently a SAHM and now believes she is going to be able to go out and get a job, take care of the kids, take care of a home, and juggle the chronic health issues (weekend was fairly bad: Migraine on Friday causing 3 hours in the dark, Saturday on the couch, heating pad, etc most of the day. Sunday was worse. Chronic intestinal issue putting her in the bathroom at least 15 times during the day. Exhaustion, frustration, etc.) These issues are all outside of the financial part with regard to just the essentials: Rent, food, car, health insurance (including co-pays and RX's which is a fairly high monthly payment when you add it all up), cable, cell phone, gas, etc.


This was my wife's fantasy too. Not too mention her fantasy that though she'd have her own apartment, we'd continue to be friends and function like a family for our daughter. Go read my threads, you'll see how similar our sitchs are.

The fantasy will start falling apart. For my wife it started as soon as I started to let go. You have to leg her go to get her back!

The minute I started letting her go she started to hedge on her fantasy. She even almost admitted it was a fantasy. I initiated BD, not her. I confronted her about an EA and the fact her web history showed she was looking for apartments. She then dropped the "I don't want to be married anymore bomb". I begged, pleaded, did all the wrong things that LBSs do.

3 days later I came across the "let her go to get her back" advice. I told her I couldn't stop her, that it took 2 to make a marriage, 1 to make a D. That I disagreed with the D but I couldn't stop it. She sighed heavily and said "I was hoping to keep this a secret and that after the holidays the desire to get a job and move out would go away."

A couple weeks later I told her that EAs were a dealbreaker for me. That for R I'd need full transparency moving forward. She said OK, she'd update her resume. The next day she spent most of the day working on her resume. That night she came to me with tears in her eyes saying she wanted to WANT to work on the MR, but wasn't there yet. That she knew it was wrong to D and split up our family. That she was still hoping the desire to leave would go away.

I believe that is when her fantasy started to break. She realized she would need to get a 8-5 job (she has a degree but has been a SAHM since our daughter was 9 months old). Apartments were much more expensive than she thought, especially 2 bedroom apartments so our D could have a room there. She also realized that her situation was pretty good. I make good money and we have a very comfortable life. So she started to realize that her divorced life would mean more meals at home, less eating out. Less carry out. She simply wouldn't be able to afford it. I keep her in new vehicles, that would likely end too, she'd have to try to make a car last a long time.

Once her fantasy started to burst, she still had a hard time giving up the dream. Even though for weeks she didn't do one thing to move forward with the "get a job, get an apartment, get a D", she still wasn't ready to say she wasn't going to. Her resume never got finished. She never worked on it again after mid-January. She shifted from looking for an apartment for her, to looking for a new house for our family. But she still couldn't say she was all in on the MR yet.

She finally admitted it 4 weeks ago at MC. That she was ready to work on the MR. But that was weeks, actually 2 months, after her last effort to move forward. Her last verbalization of wanting out of the marriage came in mid-February at lunch when we were at a church-based marriage retreat. It was like her last ditch rebellion at moving for full R.

The point of this long response is that you need to detach. Actively work on detaching. You need to give her space to figure things out. You need to find chances to help her fantasy bubble get popped. My wife would ask "How much is the payment for my car?" "How much is my car's insurance?" "What is our energy bill (gas and electric)?" I could see the wheels turning in her head related to the real cost of her fantasy.

Plus the online EA OM moved on which further helped for her fantasy to be shattered. At almost 50 she wasn't going to just walk out and find a guy in his 30s.

Her fantasy will eventually shatter. It might take moving out and getting a D, but one day she will wake up and realize how good she really had it. It might be too late, you might have moved on by then. But look at ItHurts thread, his XW is now pursuing him 4 years later!


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Waiting on D's doctor to me back to get the real story and guidance as I research therapists.


M51 W44
T21 M18
D14 S11
BD date 9/17
W filed 02/18
W withdrew petition following week
In house separation 03/18
In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18
W is moving out by mid Nov 2018
A drawing up paperwork 11/18

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Steve85.
Thanks. I am looking up Cadets and Ithurts thread now.

YES, I have to detach more. This is a must, very hard, but a must.

Again, thanks for the input and the support.


M51 W44
T21 M18
D14 S11
BD date 9/17
W filed 02/18
W withdrew petition following week
In house separation 03/18
In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18
W is moving out by mid Nov 2018
A drawing up paperwork 11/18

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Talked to my D's doctor yesterday. Working through the list to get her a therapist. Other than that, uneventful night. detached, went for a run, spent some time working on the computer after dinner.
Left this morning and just said goodbye.

reading more on detaching and the validation threads when the conversations do happen.


M51 W44
T21 M18
D14 S11
BD date 9/17
W filed 02/18
W withdrew petition following week
In house separation 03/18
In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18
W is moving out by mid Nov 2018
A drawing up paperwork 11/18

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Originally Posted By: JustSad
Talked to my D's doctor yesterday. Working through the list to get her a therapist. Other than that, uneventful night. detached, went for a run, spent some time working on the computer after dinner.
Left this morning and just said goodbye.

reading more on detaching and the validation threads when the conversations do happen.



JustSad, sounds like you are on the right track. Remember, consistency is the key. That is where a lot of us stumbled especially early on.

I can tell you that detaching works when down right. I could not believe how when I was able to do it well, how quickly my W would change course. Another marriage expert put it like this: It is kind of like when two guys start to square off for a fight. One will push the other. The other will then immediately, once they recover their balance, come forward. She described to me that I need to give my wife an emotional shove away. And her natural instinct will be to come towards me.

The problem is very few of us early on are able to do that "push" or detachment, or differentiation, well. It takes practice, diligence, patience, and resolve.


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Quote:
BUT what is the best way to deal with this? I believe her friend is filling her head full of bad information which will come back to haunt her (and me as well).


Is this a female friend? Doesn't really matter, but women can be huge enablers. They can cause as much destruction as a romantic affair, IMHO.

Quote:
She is convincing herself that our marriage was a farce, that no one was happy, she even used the phrase "you terrorized us".


This is an example what I meant by friends causing destruction. More than likely, this new friend is suggesting thoughts & ideas in the head of your W. Be sure that you tell your lawyer about this statement she made. You don't want trumped up charges. Have you told your W you have a lawyer? If not, don't volunteer.

Quote:
Just looking for some thoughts on how to handle this friend that is kind of feeding into this "fantasy" my wife is trying to create. Now, please, before you chastise me for saying my wife leaving is just a fantasy I am referring to her totally blocking out the reality of this and how it is going to affect her


Chastise you? Honey, I wrote the book on fantasies! The only thing that will crumble those sand castles is the cold splash of reality.

Quote:
These issues are all outside of the financial part with regard to just the essentials: Rent, food, car, health insurance (including co-pays and RX's which is a fairly high monthly payment when you add it all up), cable, cell phone, gas, etc.


Listen to me for a minute, okay? YOU are a lot more worried about how she'll survive, than she is worried about it. You don't need the stress......and there is not a darn thing you can do to stop this train wreck. Just get out of her way and allow reality to crash down around her. You have protected and provided for her all these years. You are used to being her rescuer.....but, she has fired you! Do you hear me? She has fired you from those responsibilities. When a person doesn't want to be saved, they will fight whoever gets in their way. To her, you are the #1 enemy. Hurts, doesn't it? Sure it does.......and you have a lot on your plate right now. You are a great father, and you've been a good H, but she has to experience something before she will back away from the fantasy. She has to see that it was nothing but sand castles, and realize what she was throwing away for a stupid fantasy. Unfortunately, the H cannot talk sense into her. He can't fix her.

I think she'll want you back, when she sees nobody is going to take care of her. While she's going through all the stuff and you are allowing reality to hit......you need to decide if you want a W who just wants you back b/c of what you provide. That's a decision only you can make. Maybe she'll realize that she loves you, IDK. But I seriously don't think it's going to happen until she starts experiencing the consequences of her choices. So, stop protecting her. I know, it's really, REALLY hard to have that kind of tough love. I have not used it in a M situation, but I have had to use it with my children. It's the hardest thing I've had to do. It hurts and it's scary, but sometimes, it's the only thing left to do b/c they won't listen and learn. They have to face consequences. You cannot reason with a person who doesn't have logical sense. ((hugs))

I am relieved to hear she was willing for D14 to have therapy. I still think you will need to lead in this situation, simply b/c your W is too self absorbed and is not making wise decisions for herself......so, how can you know she'll get behind this thing with D14 and get a therapist and see that D14 attends the sessions? You see, she may just take the advice of her friend. smirk

Quote:
I know believe nothing she says and only half of what she does so I am doing this. Really just concerned as to how I can make a difference with this other person so close to her. If this is even possible. Not giving up but am seeking help children right now.


When I was younger, I had a few friendships with other women where we spent most of the day on the phone, and talked about everything. I do mean everything! Women can have powerful influence over other women. It doesn't mean they are in any type of affair, but women friends can be very enabling. Now if this friend is a man........then yes, I think it can easily turn into an EA. I realize it doesn't have to be opposite genders to have an A, I'm just saying how female friends can influence her decisions.......and cause her to have fantasies apart from a romantic connection with that friend. A so-called man friend can cause her to think in terms of romantic fantasies that are attached to him.

I'm not sure how you mean to "get in front of the affair", but seriously......what can you do? What is the worst you can do? Maybe I should ask, what's the best you can do?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Steve85 and Sandi2
Thank you guys for your input, support and drawing me back when needed.

I don't know how to quote the things in your emails to respond to, but here are my thoughts on the comments and questions:

VERY hard day so far. I think this is due to the detaching and the A appt later today. I know it is the right thing to do and I am going to do it. It is just hard.

Sandi2, you asked if the friend was a female. Yes it is and this is a double edged sword. What I mean by that is just what you are thinking. My wife has made it totally clear that she hates men, period. This used to exclude me, but now I am lumped in as can be expected. She always had interest in women, but never "crossed any line" in our marriage. She dabbled prior to us getting together (so high school and college and generally only drunken or drug infused situations). This friend has no job, is disabled, and has nothing else to do but to listen, be there, and feed my wife's thoughts, fantasies, and maybe desires. I don't think so yet on the last part, but it may be headed that way. I do think it is moving towards an EA (but more of a deep friendship that of course only women have). Again, I agree that she has to crash for her to see what she is leaving. Do I know if I will be there when that happens? I truly don't know. As I am going through rebuilding myself and trying to make a safe and secure home for our children, I may see it differently in the future. I am almost convinced that I actually need to contemplate (I hope you can feel my heart dropping as I am saying this for my wife) going for primary custody of our children. I just believe that I can provide a more stable home, without interruption. I would be VERY open to a huge liberal door for her to see them, but with the decisions she is making and the direction I see she is going, I don't see her situation being one that our children will be safe and secure in.

I will not volunteer that I have an A to my W. I just want to be prepared and make sure I am doing what is right.

The last think I will say besides thank you again Sandi and Steve is this:

Sandi2...THANK YOU! I have never actually been fired before. It feels pretty good knowing that it is not my "job" any longer. I am going to admit that I am really going to struggle with the part of just not taking care of everything, but knowing that she doesn't want me to any longer helps. The 2x4's to the head sometimes actually get me to think and see things more clearly! I agree that I cannot change her. Trust me, I have done all the things prior to this that Michelle says never do. Begged, pleaded, argued my point, etc. etc. etc. Done doing this! IF she decides after her crash to work on our M and I am available, we will discuss if it is the right thing to do. I will always love her. She is the mother of our amazing children. I will not be a doormat and I do not need her to survive.


M51 W44
T21 M18
D14 S11
BD date 9/17
W filed 02/18
W withdrew petition following week
In house separation 03/18
In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18
W is moving out by mid Nov 2018
A drawing up paperwork 11/18

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Appt with A went as well as could be expected. Got the information I presently need and will act accordingly to protect myself. No immediate action necessary (outside of getting my D into therapy). Continue detaching, GAL, and let the sand crumble in her fantasy world. I don't wish this on her, but know that it has to happen in order for her eyes to be wide open and see how this will really work. Again, I may be the blind one and she may be much better off without us in a MR.

Good evening. Good run. When I got home my W was on her vibrating heating pad upstairs in our bedroom. Said she threw her back out. Showed empathy and moved on. Made the kids dinner, got some things done and relaxed for a bit.

Take Care today DB'ers!


M51 W44
T21 M18
D14 S11
BD date 9/17
W filed 02/18
W withdrew petition following week
In house separation 03/18
In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18
W is moving out by mid Nov 2018
A drawing up paperwork 11/18

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 362
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Oh the ups and downs of a WAW in an MLC!

W was please as anything when I got home last evening. Still reeling from pulling her back as she had her back brace on and adjusted it every 15 minutes so everyone would hear in the room as it has very loud velcro straps. Kids were studying and I was returning a couple of emails prior to my run. No one said anything. I checked on the kids work and headed out for my run prior to dinner.

Dinner was pleasant. My W, who couldn't eat for 6 months except for mostly broth and jello, thankfully is back to partially eating so all 4 of us sat down and had a family meal. Kind of a rarity for the last several months due to W's health issues. Kids did their thing. W and I watched a show, no big deal. W was so exhausted from her day she headed up at 830 to go to bed, Thursday is her morning carpool day for the kids so she has to get up at 5 to get her coffee and be on her heating pad for 2 hours so she can make the 30 minute round trip to get them there. She was asleep when I came up around 11. I woke up at 4 and laid in bed contemplating the day for about 30 minutes. Thinking of work, kids, and of course getting my mindset together to make sure I am in my right mind for DB'ing today. Got up at 430, headed down and worked out until 6. Heard W get up at 530ish and she made it down to her heating pad (our workout room is in the basement so I didn't see her, just heard the tv come up and her moving around. No big deal and totally expected. Finished my workout, came up and made the kids lunch then headed upstairs to get ready for work. Came down, wished my W a good day and also wished her luck at her doc. She has an appt today. I didn't ask with which doctor, or why as she has asked me not to be too involved with her health as I am too "controlling". Ok, respecting her space. I would usually ask her to let me know how it goes, but refrained. After wishing her a good day and saying goodbye, her response was that of a person who was a little ticked off. Don't know where that came from, didn't ask, and headed out the door.

Maybe it was her pain, maybe it is knowing that there is not much in our joint account and there are co-pays (there is enough to cover, I get paid tomorrow and will put something in there to make sure there is enough to cover what needs to be covered). Just to clarify, I am not cutting her off financially at all, we are just living kind of paycheck to paycheck right now. I have had to slow down at work a little as I am dealing with all these issues and being in sales, it shows. I moved my paycheck to a separate account when she got her own personal account and filed (then withdrew). I only did it to ensure that all of our main bills were paid in a timely manner (rent, health insurance, cable, cell, utilities) and to make sure there was enough for groceries, etc. I am fully open with her and when she has asked I have gladly shown all of my paystubs along with the bills that were paid. With her current mental state (not a jab) I just don't want to be caught with her draining the account for whatever reason and we are stuck in a very bad place financially.

Anyway, long paragraph and sorry for droning.

My half hour contemplation this morning was really a good reflection on what is happening and committing to the detaching part. This part is very hard as we are still living in the same home, sleeping in the same bed, and have 2 children as well so I cannot totally detach nor totally go dark.

Good news is my D has already made plans for, at least us (is W wants to do it fine, if not that's ok too) to make dinner and have game night on Saturday evening and we already have plans to make a really fun Sunday dinner together. LOVE that she is trying to connect more. Still have calls out to counselors as most are just too far out right now.

Looking forward to it being warmer, longer days so the kids and I can do more outside. I have no idea how W and I are going to deal with summer, but we have a few weeks to worry about that.

Letting my W have her space and contemplate her future. I am already working on mine. I need to refocus on work a little more so that is another goal of mine.


M51 W44
T21 M18
D14 S11
BD date 9/17
W filed 02/18
W withdrew petition following week
In house separation 03/18
In Limbo and DB'ing since 03/18
W is moving out by mid Nov 2018
A drawing up paperwork 11/18

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