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Originally Posted By: Amoafwl

I think Olya used the wrong word there. I think what she meant was that you seem to be bending over into a pretzel over and over to appease your W. Why are you continuing to do that?


Well, it's certainly not out of desire to. The specific instance she was referencing (W frustrated with me for leaving a mess on the patio), I'm not sure that I was appeasing her. She was right, I left the mess, and that's what I told her. It wasn't a long discussion and I cleaned it up and that was that.

In general, though, I'm not denying the pretzeling is happening. Why? I guess old habits die hard and I need to keep working on detaching. The fear that I will upset her and compulsion to please her are still too strong.

Last edited by Cadet; 04/16/18 03:10 AM. Reason: Start a new thread message

M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018

W's affair began: 23 March 2018
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018
Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018
Ended in-house separation: July 2018
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 100
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Originally Posted By: Amoafwl
Originally Posted By: 44Tries
Everything I read always talks endlessly about the importance of validation. I guess this isn't as applicable at this stage? This is part of the big, confusing dichotomy for me. How do I follow all these steps to be a better husband, while also detaching and letting go of that role? Part of my focus to be better just for myself is to be a better listener, communicator, and validator. This will help me in any future relationship, but it feels really blurry trying to incorporate it with a lot of the other DB techniques.

I think Olya used the wrong word there. I think what she meant was that you seem to be bending over into a pretzel over and over to appease your W. Why are you continuing to do that?

That is exactly what I meant. Thank you smile


Me: 28
H: 30
T: 9 M: 7

WAH: First half of 2017. Round 2 started in Spring 2018.

Husband has begun an affair.
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Quote:
I'm glad to hear you say this, because it reinforces my thinking that everything would be different. The question is, do you think that it is possible to turn it around? Once she has lost respect and attraction, is it extremely difficult to get back even if I reestablish male dominance?


Yes, it is very possible! Realistically, this may be the most challenging task you've ever taken........should you decide to do it. Changing a life long mindset is not as easy as it may sound. People can change, if they want it badly enough, and if they work at it hard enough. You can try to change simply as a ploy to keep your W from leaving you.....but it won't last. You can't change yourself to appease her. You have to change b/c this is not working for you.

I encourage you to finish reading the book on nice guy syndrome. I hope you have the right one. I can't give the name and author, due to board policies. It's not one of those type books that tells men how to pick up more chicks. However, the H/man who has NGS, gets friend zoned (whether he's married, or not). It will describe how the nice guy thinks that being passive and nice will make his W (or other people in general) happy. I think it will show that men with the NGS somehow think being "nice" is equal to being submissive, passive, accomodating, apologetic, a pleaser, and basically a doormat.

Anyway, once you read the information, you can begin making changes.

Women want a H who is a good man. They want a nice man, but they don't want the type described in that book.

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Before you can expect her to respect you, you have to make sure you are handling your end of responsibilities.......instead of blaming or waiting on her to do it. Then if she starts chewing on you, there's no cowering down from you or acting as if she's your mother
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This makes sense. Basically, no matter how well I think I am doing now, I need to just turn it up another notch. Truly leave nothing open for her to criticize.


Well......not exactly. Let me explain. If you go forward with the attitude that you will leave nothing open for her to criticize, you may find yourself becoming a slave to doing everything for her. In other words, you don't want to be focused on winning her approval. It will get you off track of the more important issues at stake. A man should not do all the work to where she has nothing left to do. Some H's make this mistake, and end up with a W who has a big sense of entitlement. So, leave her bedroom and bathroom for her to clean. Leave her clothes to wash. If she's made a little mess in the house, you can pick it up when you are doing the general house chores. But if she's left a big mess, or just continues to leave the same stuff out of place......then you might consider letting it set. The point is not to get childish about it. I see some H's act worse than little kids, b/c they don't stay balanced in their thinking on this stuff they are reading.

What I was trying to say previously, is to complete the tasks that you know are your responsibility. Don't wait for her to tell you, when you already know. That's what kids do. They wait for their mother to tell them to do it. Mothers are not sexually attracted to their children. And W's are not sexually attracted to a H they have to mother. Got it?

This 70%\30% responsibility doesn't work...,..I can tell ya. If done correctly, the chores that fall into your 70% should be designated, as should those that fall into her 30%. Otherwise, you risk getting into the blame game.......which apparently has already happened. The adult thing to do is to have an agreement about who does what.

To further explain what I meant in connection to your responsibilities, I refer to the day you planned GAL. So, she tells you she wants you to work in the yard. If you had left things scattered around the yard, due to not finishing your project or putting things away (whatever the situation), then telling her you'd do it some other time would have made you look irresponsible.....and kind of like a jerk. However, if the grass was cut and the yard looked acceptable, then you could have told her you were busy GAL (whatever you were doing at that time). The goal in this situation is to pull back your availability. Currently, she snaps her fingers and you do whatever she says. This is not attractive in men. In order to draw attraction, you have to stop acting like her child, and tell her you have made other plans. Don't make up some lie or excuse. Just simply tell her you don't want to work in the yard. (She will learn to ask you ahead of time, and not wait until you are GAL to ask). Bear in mind, however, you should not say it in a manner to sound like an a-hole. Know what I mean? Neither should you act apologetic.........b/c why should you feel sorry? Don't feel guilty (and she'll probably try to play the guilt card), but if you've handled your end of the responsibilities, then don't fall for the guilt card. Just politely tell her you aren't going to do yard work that afternoon. Don't argue with her. Don't feel you have to be accountable to her. You are a man, not a boy. You are her H, not her child.

Now, here is an example of what the guy with NGS usually does. He'll start out whining and say something like, "Well gee, honey, I really wanted to XYZ this afternoon, couldn't we do the yard work next week? I promise, I'll get through with the projects.........I'll make it up to you". (This is his way of asking her permission to have the time off). Okay, then she starts getting angry at him, so he feels like he has to save himself, and he comes up with some lie or excuse to get him off the hook. And, just to be on the safe side, he is extra nice and accommodating to her for the remaining evening/weekend. When she is cold or b'tchy, he just endures.......just like that old doormat where she wipes the dog poop off her shoes.

Your challenge will be in standing up to her and saying, "No", without giving pages of explanations, or a list of excuses/lies, and without being apologetic or feeling as if you have to be over accommodating. Your problem will be in knowing how to stay balanced. How do you show self-confidence and strength without looking like a jerk? How do you tell her you aren't going to stop your studying to go get something and run up the stairs, just b/c she asked? How do you tell her, "Um, you'll have to do it yourself, dear", instead of discussing it with her (like you previously asked us). There's no need to turn it into a big discussion. See, you want to change things by talking about it. You talk it to death, but that needs to stop. If she's not dense, she'll catch on, don't you think? The key is to stay consistent. The only time you should make an exception is when it really is necessary.......like if she is sick in bed or something.

H's in your position often try to score points with their W, b/c it's an old behavior pattern he's developed. He'll find himself in the doghouse.......and maybe he knows why, or maybe he doesn't. Either way, he figures his only out is to make as many brownie points with his W as possible. This is not a trait that places the H in a more respectable position in the MR, nor will it score attraction. If you are guilty of this behavior, your emotions may tell you to go that old route......but I hope you won't. During this time of reinventing yourself, you need to learn new behaviors and solutions, rather than falling back on old habits.

Another common behavior I see in many H with NGS, is over explaining himself to the W. He thinks his mission in life is to make/keep his W happy. Therefore, when he sees her getting upset with him, or suspects that she will........he starts explaining himself out of a jam. He goes on & on & on. To her ears, he just sounds weak. It doesn't matter the excuses he gives.......he sounds like the excuse to her. So, if you tend to over explain your mess ups, save your breath. Hold your chin up and go forth like a man! If you owe an apology, seriously, then give a very short, "I apologize", or "Sorry about that".....and that's all. Let it go and move on. No big productions, okay?

One more thing I want to leave with you. I'll see a H on the board who eagerly quotes something to his W that he got straight off someone's post. Hey, it sounded pretty cool to him and he thinks it's what his W needs to hear. But guess what? It does not impress her. She is immediately alerted to the fact he got it from a book or some other place, b/c it doesn't sound like something he would say.....or else, he uses it out of context and makes himself look like an idiot. In the first place, you don't want to quote something that will lead her straight to this board. In the second place, these tools are for you.....not her. You can't say it to her and think it will fix her.....or even impress her a wee bit.



Now, with that said, let me clarify that there are times we may suggest something specifically you could say to her in some particular situation. smile


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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