Let me give you a brief backgoround. My wife and I have known for almost 17 years and we have been married since 2012. We knew each other through long distance relationship. I have been a virgin all the time until i met my wife. Right from my first honeymoon night, i was not able to penetrate her fully due to my erectile dysfunction issue. We tried a few times later on during the course of the relationship but could not get it through although i was able to break ger hymen. But not a satisfying sexual experience for her. However we both share a very strong feeling and emotional bonding with each other which has led us this far. We cuddle, fondle and give head rubs and massages and we hug affectionately when we sleep together.
We have had constant arguments in our relationship and she has lost all the trust and faith in me.. many times she things i am gay, does not trust in money matters. We both are working couples. However, She still thinks i somehow spy on her and know all her financial accounts. she hates my family to the core and most of our arguments escalate due to that as my family and her had some issues during the begining of our relationship as to my wife not being respected by them. I took some treatment for my ED issue but it didnt help me much and now although i feel my love and affection has improved than before along with my better erection, for the past couple of years my wife is not allowing me close to her if i try to initiate sex. She gives some or the other excuse to avoid sex although she has noticed that i do get better erections than before but has lost hopes of having sex with me. At the same time, I did not want to force her and wanted to give her own space. However we spend a lot of time cuddling and fondling and massaging each other many nights and hugging and sleeping together. We enjoy dining outside, trips together but not one time she is completely happy as some or the other argument worsens the situation. But many times she conveys the fact that i do deeply love her, that I am a good man and that she will never find a better person than me in the future if she leaves me.
However, on the negative side, she constantly complains the below-
1) I dont make her feel like a complete woman 2) I care less for her compared to my parents 3) She does not want to have a kid from a family like me 4) She feels like she is in a cage when she is with me 5) She thinks that i spy on her electronic media. 6) We live like brother and sister 7) Uses abusive words for my parents and sister.
We are basically from South Asia and a society which cares a lot about 1 marriage and live for ever. It so happened that i took her to my native parents home to settle all differences and an argument ensued and spiralled out of control with my mother and sister. Things turned ugly and she was thrown out of our home. I did whatever i could to support her in front of my parents and sister but couldn't control the situation. I also moved out of the home along with her and our bag and baggage.
The inlaws incident turned tragic to an already down spiralling relationship. After that, we have had constant arguments and she became so distressed that she wants a divorce. I convinced and consoled and begged her many times but nothing helped. She involved her parents and brother in her family. And now she along with everyone in family wants us to seperate. I am the only person who wants her back and fighting for it.i have lost contact with my parents as well. I am handling this all alone. Fast forward, we are back to US and got back to our work.
Initially she wanted to move out in a month. She discussed the situation with her brother and he agreed to support her in this regard. She has changed her goals now. She says she wants to work for 2 years and settle back in asia and help her parents. However I know that she has a very deep affection love and care for me. After a lot of arguments, I gave up and told her she can decide what she wishes with our relationship after which she calmed down.She had kinda made up her mind for divorce before even coming to US.
Just a couple of days ago she was too upset when she woke up in the morning. She says she loves me so much it is very difficult to part from me. Said she had discussed with her brother that she wants to divorce and still live with me.She also said she wants us to live like friends and see how it goes. Initially she wanted us to sleep separate rooms but she insisted us to sleep together daily in the master bed room without any physical touch. However, the same day, she removed all our marriage wall photo frames and kept it inside.i see the pain in her and i realized all my mistakes of forcing and begging her and not listening to her during arguments.
Every day i see her in different moods. But i have noticed some positive ones. She cooks food and ensures i eat. She calls me to bed before going to sleep. She appreciated me keeping the house tidy and clean. I keep a rose vase in the kitchen island and change the color of rose every day. However she has said nothing. She wants to move out and expects me to support her to move out so she can be independent and then divorce me down the line after few months. She has also said that she does not want to divorce me immediately as this is the biggest decision of her life and hence the seperation. Meantime i have stopped questing or asking her to move out. I just mind my own business and work and have very minimal interaction with her.
Somehow, I delayed our physical separation by 2 months. Although i refused to help her find apartments, I did help her move the things and buy new stuff for her apartment. My in laws came to her new place the day we separated. She had mixed feelings the day she left home, and i simply wished her "be happy" and hugged her while she was in tears. She said she did not want to think of any divorce at least few months as she just wants to explore her independent life. I have been giving her full freedom and completely stopped pushing her or begging or pleading. Whenever she is with family her behavior towards me is full of resentment and disrespect. She has become fairly cold and distant. She hardly cares for me and contacts me only when there are divorce discussions. She has not filed for divorce yet. But she said she will be filing one soon. She moved out of home with lot of emotions feeling bad and bad for leaving this relationship. Just a week ago before she moved out she did not want to think about any divorce or next steps. Now that she moved out within 3 days being with her family she flipped completely and wants to divorce me. When i calmly agreed to her divorce request she was annoyed and got upset saying i spoiled her life and started being emotional. I asked her to stop resenting and i will pursue her and be faithful to her until she file for divorce. Realizing her attitude i decided to start selling all the marital home assets one by one. Stopped contacting her. Only talk to her if she calls me. And these days i am minding my own business.i can tell that she has no affair currently but she is trying to be close to her family to forget my emotional attachment. She called me very depressed saying she wants to remember the good times although its a lot more difficult for her to leave me now. She asked if i was in her situation would i file for divorce? I said NO. I simply said i will do what she needs to make her happy. If she wants to come back,come happily,if not divorce and leave,but i wont divorce her. I Have kept away from friends and families. She thinks i have started talking about our relationship to friends which is Wrong. Again she definitely doesn't have an affair. However she called a lawyer and wants to proceed with Annulment of Marriage due to NON-Consummation. I discussed with my lawyer and simply Said NO but agreed to Dissolution of Marriage due to Incompatibility. I also confirmed that I am not taking any money from her (Although lawyer suggested otherwise that i was eligible for 2 year spousal support and 50% of what she has earned). I even advised her if she was ready to go as soon as next week and finalize dissolution by end of month. Wife said she was busy next 2 weeks and will look into it later as she does not have time. Typical midlife crisis and possible depression with resentment. Suggested her various mindfulness tactics and meditation with which we could regularly overcome our differences and lead a happy life. She agreed to that and saw the effects and changes in me while we were still living together. But flips soon back and forth. Its just like talking to a wall. I am firm on my commitment and trying to make her life better and keep her happy as much as i can. I am forced to Move on. I am independent, single and spend most of the times outdoors. Don't have affairs or anything but strong enuf to independently manage life. Now she seems to have anger towards me saying "I spoiled her life". I said i cherish the good times and sorry that she feels that way and hope someday she sees me as a different person. No response since 10 days so far. Please suggest how this could end up ultimately and how i should handle it.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
You say no A, but something doesn't pass the sniff test here. I will just caution you to not get used to the idea of no A. I've often quoted a marriage expert that said "A wife/spouse doesn't need their own place to decide whether or not to divorce you, they need their own place to sleep with other people."
The one thing that really upset me is that she has talked to her family about the marriage, but you, who have no family to talk to, aren't supposed to talk to friends about it? That is narcissistic on her part.
Still there is always hope. Keep up the DBing: detach, GAL, and be the best you can be. I know this is all difficult, probably the most difficult thing you have every been through, but it does get better.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yes I am 100% sure. She is not the kind of person to have an Affair. She is just "Out of love" and deeply hurt. She may do some soul searching soon. I am not going to stop her as I want her happiness. I have told the same to her. "I want you to be happy over my happiness". There is complete lack of trust from her end. She thinks i spy on her and may snatch away all her money and on the other hand i have supported all along!!! I am detaching and healing but I am really on a big Roller coaster ride with her behavior, which is what is bothering me.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
I'm so sorry to hear how things have gone in your MR. What are the ages of you and your W?
Your W obviously loves you, but it doesn't appear that she's getting much encouragement from her family, her in-laws, or even her H.......that I can see at this point. What else (other than try those meds that did not work) have you done in the past six years that showed her you were being proactive in finding help with the ED?
You mentioned a couple of times how you cuddle, fondle, and massage her head........but have you done anything else sexually? I mean, if you can't get an erection, you could sexually stimulate and satisfy her in other ways.
I realize this is a sensitive subject, but I want to ask several questions to better understand. Did you have erection issues before the wedding?
Please don't feel I am being insulting. I am simply trying to find out more of what has happened these past six years. What did the doctor suggest after you reported that the meds did not help?
Did you see a sex therapist?
Were you ever sexually molested? Sorry, if I'm being too direct, and you don't have to answer my questions, if you'd rather not.
Were you addicted to porn before getting married?
My H and I married young and were virgins. The wedding night went fine, considering that both of us were shy and knew very little about sex. But the next morning he could not perform, and I didn't understand. The situation continued for two or three weeks. If I had been more knowledgable, and/or if we had not been so timid......it would not have lasted that long. It was long enough, however, for me to know if a couple doesn't turn to professional help........the MR is going to be on very shaky ground. It doesn't matter how much cuddling or other forms of affection are shown.......if there is not some type of sexual pleasure and physical union, then the couple will likely become roommates. Both spouses feel frustrated, hurt, resentful, etc. You have to give her more intimacy than she would get from a "friend".
This is not an easy situation for couples who have been M for a long time. In your case, I think there's something you aren't telling us............or else you have been very passive about this entire sex starved MR. Don't misunderstand and think I am blaming you or finding fault for having ED. I am not. I am asking what else have you tried, in seeking help for the problem.......and to have sexual intimacy in the MR?
*****************************************
The part about the family and in-laws getting involved and making things worse for the couple........is sad, but often very true. If her family has negative feelings for you, then they influence her......and she gets more resentful, as a result. If your family cannot accept her and treat her with some measure of kindness.......or if she cannot show them respect.......the only hope I see would be to move away from both families. But that wouldn't really solve the problem. It just puts a little distance from them. Some families just cannot blend......and the couple has to decide who takes priority. I'll give you a hint......it's neither family.
What can you do to show your W things would be different in the relationship if she decides to not get a divorce?
The one part on her list I question is her concern that you have snooped on her devices. Has this been a problem in the past? Has she behaved inappropriately with another man.........or have you been insecure and snooped to see if she was cheating?
I hope you'll come back and post every chance you get.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I'm so sorry to hear how things have gone in your MR. What are the ages of you and your W?
M 35 W 35
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Your W obviously loves you, but it doesn't appear that she's getting much encouragement from her family, her in-laws, or even her H.......that I can see at this point. What else (other than try those meds that did not work) have you done in the past six years that showed her you were being proactive in finding help with the ED?
I took meds for 6 months. No luck.. But she also did not allow me to being close with her. Every time i moved close, she used to give some or the other excuse. Not that I am blaming her. I always had the performance anxiety and fear to ask her. Coz i did not want to spoil her mood. She is also somewhat not sexually aroused. One time i showed porn and she wanted to vomit.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
You mentioned a couple of times how you cuddle, fondle, and massage her head........but have you done anything else sexually? I mean, if you can't get an erection, you could sexually stimulate and satisfy her in other ways.
I am a sexually fit guy.. I get aroused. Only thing is my erection does not last long. End up ejaculating quickly. I have tried to sexually arouse her but she refrains from any such desires. Tried to court her but stops me. Asks me to keep my Underwear on and not touch her while sleeping. But yes I think my sexual drive is low. And she always says that she is the one who has always initiated sex and it was never me. Not exactly true. but yes mostly it was her due to my fear and performance anxiety.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I realize this is a sensitive subject, but I want to ask several questions to better understand. Did you have erection issues before the wedding?
I did mention this to my wife regarding the erection issue before wedding.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Please don't feel I am being insulting. I am simply trying to find out more of what has happened these past six years. What did the doctor suggest after you reported that the meds did not help?
I followed up with more doctors. All suggested increased dosage of sertralin and i had depressive side effects. Moreover my wife did not allow me close, so i really did not have a means to test it, frankly.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Did you see a sex therapist?
No, as she was not ready. And also i feel i am cured. but no vehicle to test with
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Were you ever sexually molested? Sorry, if I'm being too direct, and you don't have to answer my questions, if you'd rather not.
No
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Were you addicted to porn before getting married?
A little bit just like all school guys.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
My H and I married young and were virgins. The wedding night went fine, considering that both of us were shy and knew very little about sex. But the next morning he could not perform, and I didn't understand. The situation continued for two or three weeks. If I had been more knowledgable, and/or if we had not been so timid......it would not have lasted that long. It was long enough, however, for me to know if a couple doesn't turn to professional help........the MR is going to be on very shaky ground. It doesn't matter how much cuddling or other forms of affection are shown.......if there is not some type of sexual pleasure and physical union, then the couple will likely become roommates. Both spouses feel frustrated, hurt, resentful, etc. You have to give her more intimacy than she would get from a "friend".
I long for that. I am missing her very much. At the same time, I don't want her to force to be with me unhappy.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
This is not an easy situation for couples who have been M for a long time. In your case, I think there's something you aren't telling us............or else you have been very passive about this entire sex starved MR. Don't misunderstand and think I am blaming you or finding fault for having ED. I am not. I am asking what else have you tried, in seeking help for the problem.......and to have sexual intimacy in the MR?
My wife was very beautiful when i met her first time. It was love at first sight. Over the years after that and at time of marraige, she was still pretty. But she gained weight subsequently and we were sexually starved. I feel i have also hurt at times on her looks. Tried to make her loose weight and all that. I felt bad for what i did and I guess she took it to heart.
*****************************************
Originally Posted By: sandi2
The part about the family and in-laws getting involved and making things worse for the couple........is sad, but often very true. If her family has negative feelings for you, then they influence her......and she gets more resentful, as a result. If your family cannot accept her and treat her with some measure of kindness.......or if she cannot show them respect.......the only hope I see would be to move away from both families. But that wouldn't really solve the problem. It just puts a little distance from them. Some families just cannot blend......and the couple has to decide who takes priority. I'll give you a hint......it's neither family.
What can you do to show your W things would be different in the relationship if she decides to not get a divorce?
I will try to court her and be more intimate. Respect her for what she is and improve myself and make sure the marriage has a check mark on progress.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
The one part on her list I question is her concern that you have snooped on her devices. Has this been a problem in the past? Has she behaved inappropriately with another man.........or have you been insecure and snooped to see if she was cheating?
I have never been insecure and trust her 100% to heart. I may have snooped her devices just once or twice just for curiosity a long time ago. She thinks i spy on her all the time. has that negative feeling on me now that I am some kinda bad guy. One day i even jokingly told her when she gave her apt keys to a janitor to clean while she was not there - " You trust the janitor more than me?". the trust is broken to that extent. As a matter of fact, right from Day 1, I have always helped her get on track on finances and stuff and helped her sincerely with no ulterior motives.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Thanks for answering my questions. It helps give a clearer view of the sitch. Was your W raised in a strict religious home?
When I was a young girl, I was very sheltered and society, movies, etc. were more conservative. Television shows were family oriented and very tame in comparison of today. Porn magazines, sex toys, or even condoms were never out in open display in regular stores. It may have been different in large cities, but I was a small town girl who never saw any of these things.
After getting M, my H had to tell me about oral sex. I ran to the bathroom and vomited. I was just a teenager and had never heard any whispers of any such activity between two adults. I was certain my parents would have never stooped to such vulgar behavior!! .
In today's world, it is more difficult to shelter our children's innocence when television and the Internet are too handy to reveal explicit information. I don't know how much your bride had been educated about sex before the wedding. My kids had sex eduction classes in school, so that shows how things changed from my early years to my children's generation.
Do you think it was an issue of innocence and not being exposed or educated about sexual intimacy..........or was she completely turned off and disgusted? In the beginning, was she unwilling to participate.......or was it more like she was frustrated and disappointed? What was her reason for not going to sex therapy....or some type of counseling with you?
If the MR mainly suffers intimacy problem, I think professional counseling could help both of you. If she has turned to another man or has emotional fantasies of OM, then it will be more complexed, but still repairable. After six years of a SSM, it would be exceptional if she has not engaged in an EA, IMHO. Again, I say the problems can be resolved with the right type of counseling. However, it can't be resolved without her willingness.
Women are highly sensitive about their weight. Her weight gain could be the result of frustration over the intimacy problems. A woman will question herself as not being desirable enough to her H, and she'll feel responsible for the ED issues. If she has body shaming, it causes a lot of self-consciousness and makes it very difficult to be uninhibited sexually. If she pulled back and didn't want you touching her intimately, her poor self image could be a big part of her problem. This is another reason I believe sex therapy could help, but I have never had sessions with a sex therapist......therefore, I can't base this on personal experience, just what I've read. I can speak from personal experience about the other things, and I know it is a poor way to begin a MR. The longer it remains in that state where each spouse blames themselves......or one another, the more problems arise around it. Emotional and physical intimacy is the core of a MR. Without it, the love will chip away a little bit at a time.
The problems with both families is more complicated. She is very attached to her family, and you are close to your family, as well. If her family is encouraging her to get a D, but she still loves you........I'm sure she feels conflicted.
I do not defend her disrespectful behavior toward your family, and neither do the details matter. I know from personal experience how sensitive a W can become when she feels her H does not treat her or show his family that she is number one over his family and friends. When there is a SSM, and she is feeling insecure about her looks, etc., it increases the tension if she feels her H is "taking sides" with her in-laws. Whether he is or isn't, he must show that she is number one in his life, or he'll have a very unhappy W. Sadly, this type of situation can cause a W to act out in unattractive ways. In her attempts to express her emotions to her H, she can often be seen as b'tchy.
Quote:
I will try to court her and be more intimate. Respect her for what she is and improve myself and make sure the marriage has a check mark on progress.
Has she told you she wants you to pursue her and court her? Does she ever act flirty with you?
When you say you will improve yourself, in what way would you improve? Have you set personal goals for yourself?
I am really glad to hear that you are physically fit and the ED issue is better. That is great.
For the time being, I don't encourage you to pursue dating if she is not suggesting it. Don't put any emotional pressure on her. Continue posting and putting together a plan of action. Currently, you are giving us a picture of your sitch, and you are reading and learning about DB. I hope you will read Divorce Remedy as soon as possible.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you very much Sandi. Your info has a lot of thoughtful stuff that needs to be looked into in depth and worked upon. There is much to learn from what you posted and i do my best to enhaance knowledge everyday on these matters. Let me breakdown the answers to your questions step by step below.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Thanks for answering my questions. It helps give a clearer view of the sitch. Was your W raised in a strict religious home?
Yes she was raised in a strict conservative family in a small town. To this date she does not even know how to masturbate (Although I have not taught her).
Originally Posted By: sandi2
When I was a young girl, I was very sheltered and society, movies, etc. were more conservative. Television shows were family oriented and very tame in comparison of today. Porn magazines, sex toys, or even condoms were never out in open display in regular stores. It may have been different in large cities, but I was a small town girl who never saw any of these things.
After getting M, my H had to tell me about oral sex. I ran to the bathroom and vomited. I was just a teenager and had never heard any whispers of any such activity between two adults. I was certain my parents would have never stooped to such vulgar behavior!! .
In today's world, it is more difficult to shelter our children's innocence when television and the Internet are too handy to reveal explicit information. I don't know how much your bride had been educated about sex before the wedding. My kids had sex eduction classes in school, so that shows how things changed from my early years to my children's generation.
Do you think it was an issue of innocence and not being exposed or educated about sexual intimacy..........or was she completely turned off and disgusted? In the beginning, was she unwilling to participate.......or was it more like she was frustrated and disappointed? What was her reason for not going to sex therapy....or some type of counseling with you?
Yes I feel this is partly due to the conservative upbringing to some extent. But she was quite frustrated the very first day when the penetration was not successful. She has had her thoughts on that for quite a while. And she was also suffering from depression when I married her. She had to make some abrupt changes to her career decisions due to my marraige, which caused her apathy towards me.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
If the MR mainly suffers intimacy problem, I think professional counseling could help both of you. If she has turned to another man or has emotional fantasies of OM, then it will be more complexed, but still repairable. After six years of a SSM, it would be exceptional if she has not engaged in an EA, IMHO. Again, I say the problems can be resolved with the right type of counseling. However, it can't be resolved without her willingness.
I can vouch from my heart she has lost out of love from me. But she has said sometimes, if she finds someone out there who can show her love, she wont think twice before leaving me. At this time she does not have anyone in mind. She is a very spiritual girl. Sometimes she says, she will leave this marriage and become a nun and indulge in godly matters. She has told she wants to live single for ever and never marry again (I highly doubt that)
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Women are highly sensitive about their weight. Her weight gain could be the result of frustration over the intimacy problems. A woman will question herself as not being desirable enough to her H, and she'll feel responsible for the ED issues. If she has body shaming, it causes a lot of self-consciousness and makes it very difficult to be uninhibited sexually. If she pulled back and didn't want you touching her intimately, her poor self image could be a big part of her problem. This is another reason I believe sex therapy could help, but I have never had sessions with a sex therapist......therefore, I can't base this on personal experience, just what I've read. I can speak from personal experience about the other things, and I know it is a poor way to begin a MR. The longer it remains in that state where each spouse blames themselves......or one another, the more problems arise around it. Emotional and physical intimacy is the core of a MR. Without it, the love will chip away a little bit at a time.
This is an issue I have observed and I am to be blamed on this mostly for her feelings. I feel bad for what I did. Also she observed that her vaginal muscles are tight and she kinda hesitates allowing me to be close to her. She had ordered dilators and had told me that she would try to relax her muscles so its easier to penetrate. When we were togetherm we had discussed about taking baby steps in this matter when she feels emotionally & physically ready. Alas, she changed her mind suddenly and went into Full spree divorce mode, the minute she left home .
Originally Posted By: sandi2
The problems with both families is more complicated. She is very attached to her family, and you are close to your family, as well. If her family is encouraging her to get a D, but she still loves you........I'm sure she feels conflicted.
From what I heard last, her family is not completely against me and to some extent they have supported this marriage despite the issues we have and although they are biased towards her feelings. No one from her family has asked my side of the story so far yet. But they also mentioned the ultimate decision lies with her.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I do not defend her disrespectful behavior toward your family, and neither do the details matter. I know from personal experience how sensitive a W can become when she feels her H does not treat her or show his family that she is number one over his family and friends. When there is a SSM, and she is feeling insecure about her looks, etc., it increases the tension if she feels her H is "taking sides" with her in-laws. Whether he is or isn't, he must show that she is number one in his life, or he'll have a very unhappy W. Sadly, this type of situation can cause a W to act out in unattractive ways. In her attempts to express her emotions to her H, she can often be seen as b'tchy.
I agree to this point of view. Initially when I was married I had no idea who should be kept first. As and when days progressed, I realized wife always comes first and it has been an evolution over a 6 year period. Now I have less attachment to my family and more attachment to my spouse. However, that saying is not the same for her. She is always more attached to her family. She says her parents come first then I come next. It has been this way since marriage. I have not forced her or argued with her on this matter.
[/quote] I will try to court her and be more intimate. Respect her for what she is and improve myself and make sure the marriage has a check mark on progress.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Has she told you she wants you to pursue her and court her? Does she ever act flirty with you?
She hasn't. But I thought may be if I do our intimacy increases. Even if i try to flirt with her or court her, she sees it in a negative way as if i am doing with an ulterior motive and really not liking her.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
When you say you will improve yourself, in what way would you improve? Have you set personal goals for yourself?
I have set a number of short term and long term goals - 1) For a start I am detaching from this relationship and healing. (My wife has observed this over a course of 4 months and she is surprised the way I am handling certain matters patiently) 2) Been reading books on Mindfulness. (One day she did ask me how I have been so different. We both did some activities together and read mindfulness together. We went to Yoga classes together. We tried to spend time as much as possible with positiveness. It lasted only for a week before she became cold again and started planning to move out. 3) I spend outdoors mostly. Have changed from being introvert to Extrovert. I was always a Gym guy and I am even now, Which is one BIG positive that helped me when the BD happened. My mind and body was quickly able to take the emotional stress and pain and I recovered from it. My wife definitely sees this positive change in me and to some extent (Although she didnt express). Although devastated and did mistakes initially as per MWD, I know she was surprised how i took the BD aftermath. 4) I take 1 day at a time, an hour at a time. Concentrate for that day. Do not think of past and do not think of future. Try my best to be positive upbeat. 5) I have told her many times when she tries to argue "LET IT GO" and "FORGET THE PAST". I cant change the past but I can definitely think of a happy future if given a chance. I guess the words just fade away from her mind within an hour or so every time she is upset.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I am really glad to hear that you are physically fit and the ED issue is better. That is great.
For the time being, I don't encourage you to pursue dating if she is not suggesting it. Don't put any emotional pressure on her. Continue posting and putting together a plan of action. Currently, you are giving us a picture of your sitch, and you are reading and learning about DB. I hope you will read Divorce Remedy as soon as possible.
I have stopped all communication with her when she said Annullment. I was deeply hurt. I have given her a green over call (Confident positive tone) for dissolution (instead of annulment) to take up matters on her own and let me know how she wants to proceed. Have been reading Divorce Remedy for a while. I have purchased the Divorce Busting book too. will read it.
One thing i wanted to bring out is, she had disthemia for a while and she was taking medication for it. She continued medication (a very low dose) but suddenly stopped since July of last year. I have seen her issues complicating since then. And I am very very scared to bring this matter to her coz she will go nuts if i say that is the issue.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
13 days and counting. No communication with spouse so far. Just moving on with my life.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
still holding strong with my day to day activities. I have a meeting scheduled scheduled with a sex therapist and i think he has a fair idea of whats going on with myself. He wanted to have a session with both me and my wife. Unfortunately since she isn't available i am going there alone myself.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Update on my issue - I had a session with a sex therapist. He mentioned that rapid ejaculation issue that I have is curable however requires that my wife also be present. Unfortunately i am in No contact with my wife and calling her for a session now is somewhat like pursuing her. So i am planning to do it alone. Since my wife bought dilators, the doctor is suspecting it to br vaginismus. No wonder why i was finding it hard to penetrate her. It was a like brick wall. I could hardly have an open dialogue with my wife as well since even she is quite shy. The doc even sent me a case study of how a couple with vaginismus who never consummated marraige for 7 years were cured. According to him in my case i have been able to consummate in a way.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Update on My issue - wife called me and let me know that she has submitted the disolution of marraige papers from her end to the attorney. She said she has my papers in her hand and will give it to me. She said she was not in a haste to have this done. She was very emotional and upset saying that this marraige has no hopes. I tried to convince her by saying there is still hope if we both agree to make this work by therapy and other means. I also mentioned that i went to a therapist and gave her the case stidy which explained the above situation published above post. She was quite emotional and told me she is not going to be happy in this relationship or outside if this. I challenged her if divorce was the right choice. She said at least that her sufferings may reduce to some extent by giving me divorce. She also asked how i was managing and if i plan ti stay there or move away from the city and i told her that i have not decided anything for now. So conversations went on quite a bit and me trying to convince her to give it more thought although i did assure her that i dont want to be with an unhappy wife. Then at one point i told her to move forward and we disconnected. She called me back with emotional feelings and i stopped her and told if she loves me. She said she does but it doesnt matter. Asked her if she trusts me. She said no and hung up She read the case study and said its good for my future marraige and said ours is not fixable. Late night she sent me a broken heart article link - https://herway.net/love/this-is-what-she-turned-into-after-you-broke-her/
I read and told i apologise if i had hurt her. Not sure how much time i have and how i need to deal.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Wife kept divorce papers on the table in my absence
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Since my wife bought dilators, the doctor is suspecting it to br vaginismus. No wonder why i was finding it hard to penetrate her. It was a like brick wall.
The brick wall thing is what I've heard about vaginismus. Did someone suggest to her that she try dilators?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Since my wife bought dilators, the doctor is suspecting it to br vaginismus. No wonder why i was finding it hard to penetrate her. It was a like brick wall.
The brick wall thing is what I've heard about vaginismus. Did someone suggest to her that she try dilators?
I think she realized it herself and tried to fix her issues. But anyways its not divorce papers bjt actually it is statement of financial affidavit she kept on table. I have almost moved out of this marraige. Have not kept much hopes and planning to move with my life. If she comes back before divorce i will welcome. If not move on
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Update - wife asked me to sign the financial affidavit at the earliest. I asked 10 more days time. She was insisting the reason for delay. I just said i am taking 1 week time to decide the end of my marraige. She insisted the documents be emailed. I refused and said that is not how i deal with things and i will personally hand it over in 10 days. She somewhat agreed with reluctance. Later out of curiosity, i texted and asked why she is hurrying as she had mentioned that she wont think of divorce for 3 months. And she said its an emotional trauma and big decision. She took time to think and decided what she wants and hence made up her mind.I simply thanked her. Since there is not much hope left should i send her the documents earlier than the date mentioned?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Send her the document. Why are you holding it up. You have to get out of her way. By you making your declaration of 10 days, it seems like you are trying to control her.
Stop trying to control her. You holding up that document is all about control. You giving over that document is not you saying you are giving up on the M.
Its now time for you to GAL and keep moving forward. Work on 180s and detaching.
You are trying to stay attached to her by holding that document over her head. She needs space from you and you need space from her. I know it's scary because a lot of unknown is involved, but you want get her back by holding this document over her head, you will only push her away faster.
She must see a strong and confident Nut. She must see a Nut that she knows will be fine without her.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
I don't think ten more days will change your W's mind/heart in this particular situation. I am so sorry. I don't think handing the document to her in person will influence anything, either. ((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks for ur advice. I was advised by leni phone coaching DB to delay this as much as possible. And for now my wife has agreed for the time. In a way,one shouldnt hastily do things. I was thinking of taking an advice from the lawyer nexy week as well as schedule a phone session with leni as per her suggesti n.Dont u agree?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
I'm confused on what you are asking in your last question about Leni and the lawyer.
Are you asking us about our opinion on a phonecon/3 way call between Leni and your lawyer?
I think delaying is you not lifting a hand to help. There's a difference between you not lifting a hand and you telling your W you wont do something until your conditions are met.
You set conditions of 10 days, look at it from your W stand point. How do You think she will view that action. I view it as taking a person hostage.
How is that showing your W a confident man? How is that not controlling and manipulating.
IMO, your W is not going to come back because you withheld a piece of paper, she's going to come back because you are strong, confident, not controlling or manipulating and interesting.
Do what makes you look attractive, do what makes you look strong. Do what makes her want to be with you.
You worrying about a piece of paper makes you look weak and unattractive.
I'm telling you this not to be mean, but for you to take the time and evaluate this action objectively. Put yourself outside you own decision and what kind of man do you see?
A confident man would say, "ok W I will sign the paper. I love you and I want our M, but I want stand in your way".
True love, is allowing a person to be free. If you truly love a person you allow them to make their own decisions, you allow them to be themselves and you don't forced them to do things they don't want to do.
The most profound act of love is LETTING go.
Let go, have patience and allow time and space to do it's thing.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
I'm confused on what you are asking in your last question about Leni and the lawyer.
Are you asking us about our opinion on a phonecon/3 way call between Leni and your lawyer?
I think delaying is you not lifting a hand to help. There's a difference between you not lifting a hand and you telling your W you wont do something until your conditions are met.
You set conditions of 10 days, look at it from your W stand point. How do You think she will view that action. I view it as taking a person hostage.
How is that showing your W a confident man? How is that not controlling and manipulating.
IMO, your W is not going to come back because you withheld a piece of paper, she's going to come back because you are strong, confident, not controlling or manipulating and interesting.
Do what makes you look attractive, do what makes you look strong. Do what makes her want to be with you.
You worrying about a piece of paper makes you look weak and unattractive.
I'm telling you this not to be mean, but for you to take the time and evaluate this action objectively. Put yourself outside you own decision and what kind of man do you see?
A confident man would say, "ok W I will sign the paper. I love you and I want our M, but I want stand in your way".
True love, is allowing a person to be free. If you truly love a person you allow them to make their own decisions, you allow them to be themselves and you don't forced them to do things they don't want to do.
The most profound act of love is LETTING go.
Let go, have patience and allow time and space to do it's thing.
Yes. Like you mentioned i decided to let her go completely and emailed the documents and wished her the very best. So shevdoes not have to suffer any further emotional trauma due to my delay. I will involve the lawyer if required at a later point of time.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Update after sending papers - my wife called me she wants to discuss one last time before divorce and started ranting out , how mean i was when i sold all the furntiure items so that she doesnt need to come back and that i had met the lawyer even before she left this home.. we had heated arguments and she went berserk and so did i.. i told her she has been mean towards me and trusts a janitor more than I. And she again said the same things again and again about not trusting me and that i wanted her out of home. I still kept strong and told her i dont beleive in divorce, however if she insists i will not be stopping her. But she went on behaving rude for a while before she hung up the phone. I sent her a text saying that i still dont beleive divorce is the option but if she insists i wont stop her and allow her to go with love and happiness and peace. And to stop suspecting me as i did nothing wrong. And that selling furniture items was a way by means of which i could ease my burden before moving out. If she wanted to talk to me peacefully she is welcome to do in person or over phone. For that she texted that now i wanted it coz its over and wished me luck. I repeated the same saying that if she feels divorce is the only option i will leave it to her as i wont stop her if she insists.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
You need to leave her alone. Both of you are too angry to talk.
I have left her alone.but what makes me sad is she is shifting the blame towards me with lame excuses. I understand the situation she is in. And feel the pain she does. But i am not doing something untrustworthy. To this date I am the one who is trying to make things work here not to break! She thinks my actions are pushing her away! How can one justify that is not the case?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
You have to learn how to validate. It will help A lot if you stop telling her how to feel and what to feel.
Her feelings about the funiture are hers. You can only tell her the reason you did what you did, you can't tell her how to feel and what to feel about what you did. Next time you can say something to the effects of, "I can see how me moving the funiture would make you feel that way, but thats not why I move them." Leave it at that. Stop arguing with her and validate.
Once she hangs up, don't text her right after that. That's pursuit. Learn to leave the conversations first. Say something like, "this conversation is going in the wrong direction, I will call you back when I have cooled off". If she says don't worry about calling her back you say, "ok".
Your actions are pushing her away! She's telling you how she feels, believe her. Validate, validate, validate. She can justify it because its her feelings and not yours. You don't own the rights to her thoughts or feelings. Allow her to have both. You are still trying control her.
You did good by signing those forms. Stop trying explain every little decision you make. Make the decision and keep moving forward. Stop looking back after you make the decision, what I mean by looking back is, you make a decision and then call your W looking for her reaction or try to explain your decision. If she doesnt ask for an explanation dont give her one.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Thats a beautiful piece of advise. And i liked every word of it. Appreciate that. Thanks!!
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Update - she came home and started dumping some of the stuff she had borrowed from me and returned my valentine and wedding anniversary greetings. I simply asked told her cordially that my home is not a dumping ground and she can leave those stuff near the dumpster. After a bit of hesitation she did leave them at the dumpster. I also threw the wedding cards and gifts into the dumpster.( i know i shouldn't have but i had to since she has been walking all over me and i had to stand my ground and affirm)I gently requested the home keys to be handed over and she left without uttering much. Before leaving she commented that she could have thrown the box i gave her into garbage. I told her its her items and do what she needs to. I closed the garage door and was done.
A few observations while this happened - i was happy to see her , and i observed some kind of agony and emotion on her face as well sensing she isnt that happy. I was with mixed emotions and neutral and showed a strong confident response.
She is yet to discuss next steps regarding divorce.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Update - Received the dissolution notice by email. Will review with the attorney tomorrow abd sign and and submit it to wife. No point in waiting as she has made up her mind.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
I signed the dissolution papers and dropped off at my wife doorstep on 5/1 Afternoon. Wife called twice that evening (i didnt pick up) and even texted me asking to casually speak with me. I asked what is it was regarding? She said she wanted to talk to me casually and if i am uninterested thats totally fine and said take care. I said everytime her casual talks have a way of rising my Blood pressure. And insisted she specify the subject of convesration , i would later choose to talk to her. I said i am done playing with her games as well. She didnt respond.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
I signed my paperwork a long time ago. I don't think Wife still hasn't submitted the papers to lawyer. I have no idea whats going on either. I have no contact with her as well. Any suggestions?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
I signed the dissolution papers and dropped off at my wife doorstep on 5/1 Afternoon. Wife called twice that evening (i didnt pick up) and even texted me asking to casually speak with me. I asked what is it was regarding? She said she wanted to talk to me casually and if i am uninterested thats totally fine and said take care. I said everytime her casual talks have a way of rising my Blood pressure. And insisted she specify the subject of conversation , i would later choose to talk to her. I said i am done playing with her games as well. She didnt respond.
Are you hoping to reconcile at some point? If so, then if she asks to talk then do talk to her. The timing is interesting that she wants to have this talk right after you signed the papers, perhaps she's getting cold feet about the dissolution. Just remember DB'ing is not being cold and indifferent, it's about LOVINGLY detaching. That means giving her time and space, but if she reaches out to you then it's fine to talk to her.
If you do have a talk with her just listen and validate. Let her do the talking.
Originally Posted By: Nutcrac
I signed my paperwork a long time ago. I don't think Wife still hasn't submitted the papers to lawyer. I have no idea whats going on either. I have no contact with her as well. Any suggestions?
Ask her if she still plans on going through with it. When we say "don't pursue" we don't mean never talk to them ever, we just mean don't ask them on dates, don't make frequent phone calls, don't constantly text them.
"I said everytime her casual talks have a way of rising my Blood pressure."
Wow, that is a huge mistake. You are supposed to be detaching which is showing her you are emotionally stable no matter what she says or does. To come out and tell her that casual talks with her has a physical effect on you is just giving it up. You are supposed to be the rock by the shore.
Just my two cents. As AS says if R is your goal and your WAW wants to talk, TALK. Even if it is just mostly listening, acknowledging, and validating her feelings. You missed an opportunity and it could been at a crucial time.
Now, I say all that, don't go crawling back to her begging to have the talk now. Just let it lie, but if and when that opportunity arises again, cease the opportunity. Just be sure to be fresh on the detachment and validation threads.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
"I said everytime her casual talks have a way of rising my Blood pressure."
Wow, that is a huge mistake. You are supposed to be detaching which is showing her you are emotionally stable no matter what she says or does. To come out and tell her that casual talks with her has a physical effect on you is just giving it up. You are supposed to be the rock by the shore.
Just my two cents. As AS says if R is your goal and your WAW wants to talk, TALK. Even if it is just mostly listening, acknowledging, and validating her feelings. You missed an opportunity and it could been at a crucial time.
Now, I say all that, don't go crawling back to her begging to have the talk now. Just let it lie, but if and when that opportunity arises again, cease the opportunity. Just be sure to be fresh on the detachment and validation threads.
Steve85 , i understand why u feel negative about this.in my perspective i was right to say that as she has been pounding me for quite sone tine with false accusations. SO I HAD TO STAND MY GROUND.i said that and also told her that I WAS DONE PLAYING HER GAMES. She did send ne an enail ro cancel car insurance after 2 days which I promptly did. I have nothing to fear here. I stood my ground for the first time after many years and ready to face the consequences.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
I appreciate your responses. But here is my point of view on the whole stitch. Wife has been consistently pressuring me for divorce and I am the LBH who has moved heaven and earth to save this marriage. I own my share of faults and responsibilities for this marriage. However, my wife has shown little to none in her part to save this marriage. The last time she questioned me why i needed such a long time to sign the financial affidavit? I had just requested 10 days time to think over and she got butterflies in her stomach and said she does not want to delay (Said twice frantically). Instead of arguing, I simply signed the next day and wished her the best. As soon as i let her know, She calls me back blaming me that I was the cause for this marriage to breakdown, and she would have been willing to come back IF I had not sold the furniture at my marital home (BTW, I have been selling them away since our lease is ending and I need to move to an apartment and I cant fit all of them. I told her the same). She again mentioned that she never trusted me and said that I took the step of letting go of this all for my own benefit. (For my OWN BENEFIT??? Seriously???) She hung up the phone and I sent her a text (Which I shouldn't have coz its like pursuing) explaining the reasons why I am selling items and if she really wanted to discuss peacefully I am willing to do that. She was angry and asked me why i need to fix it when it is all over. I reiterated saying if she was unhappy she is free to file the Divorce. ALL the while I have been the LBH and making every effort to save this marriage and she has seen hardly any or none of it? Give me a break! Even when she came to pick up her stuff, she returned all the wedding anniversary gifts that I had gifted her along with some store return items, she had borrowed from me , despite telling her that I dont need them back. I promptly asked her to leave it at the dumpster as I am NOT her RETURN AGENT! she got upset and said she can do the same thing throwing the stuff she has come to pick up. I smilingly said those are her items and she can do as she wishes! I took the home keys as well from her. She took one last look at the small bed I was sleeping in the living room and left.(Not sure why - It definitely does remind her of her brothers miseries when he went through his divorce as he was sleeping like that as well). The very same evening I receive the Divorce (Dissolution) documents by email. So she has this kind of a vindictive behavior and anger towards me and continues to show this. Hence, the very next day, I went to my attorney, got this notarized and as promised I did not contest for anything from her(I could have easily taken 50% of her 401K and have 2 years spousal support). The very afternoon, I left the papers at her doorstep while she was at work and texted her saying the same. The evening I get 2 calls missed calls 15 minutes apart. She sends me a text asking to talk Casually. I asked what it was regarding? She says she wants to talk casually and if i didnt want to talk its fine and said "Take Care". Based on her past behavior, I simply responded saying - her casual talks have caused my BP to rise. If she has anything specific to talk let me know the subject, I will talk if I CHOSE to talk. and that i am an X year old male who is dont playing games with her. She did not respond after that. Remember - I did NOT Say i don't want to talk to her, I simply asked her to let me know the subject so we can be specific to it. She has done these tricks many times where she is emotional and then suddenly turns aggressive and negative. She has been going back and forth a long time. I simply wanted to be done with all that so she realizes what she is doing. Even now, If she wants to talk, I am ready. For a very long period of time, I have beem nervous acting like a chiken and being the Nice Guy (I hate it) for her and fulfill all her wishes. So experts tell me, If I stood my ground once and set my expectations on what I wanted, what is wrong with that? I was NOT harsh or rude like the way she was towards me. I have been humble pretty much my entire life. I signed the divorce papers and I should act like a person who has signed it. Now If she really wants me back, don't you think it is her duty to do the due diligence to at least put 1% effort in working towards having me back. Please explain me where and what I did was wrong here. Any feedback (Possitive / Negative) / Criticisms are welcome!
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Guess i was wrong all the time.. the papers have been filed with the court 3 days ago. I accidently got to know through my attorney as he went into the county register and pulled the docket. And the final hearing date is also set.
This means i was not even worthy of being informed by my spouse that the papers were filed by her with the court. However a car insurance cancel date is more important for her than a divorce filing date. I guess thats how relatiinships end. And that is what this relationship was worthy of. And this was what i was worthy of for my spouse. I wish everyone in this forum the very best of luck and good look in their endeavors.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Sent a text to my wife asking letting her know that i received court hearing date and thanked her. Also asked if she had anything to discuss since she had asked to casually talk the other day. She said she didnt want to disturb my health and peace. Wished me happiness. I told her not to take the literal context of what i mentioned the other day. She still said she has nothing left to say. I did not respomd to her back.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
My about to be Exed wife texts me askimg about my move and packing (i am vacating my marital home). I was vague in response. She said that its difficult for the both of us and let her know if i need any help. I said that i was doing fine and that i dont need any help. She calls me later in the evening and casually talks to me and told she liked me for many things but honestly hates me for certain things. I simply listened and we were done with the call. For the past 3 days she is keeping tabs on me and messaging once a day or trying to reach asking me how i was doing and all. Whenever she called i tried to ignore mostly and texted one word responses. She calls me yesterday again and was emotional saying that i am not contesting anything in this marraige (by law i could take upwards 150k from her as she earns more than I) but i simply didnt. I clearly said i dont need it and wished her luck. She said i can take that money even if we are divorced. I said that is beyond one self respect and the last thing i would do even if i die. She started giving me investment advices and how I should handle my money in future and i stopped her right there saying i dont need any advices from her. And said that hopefully that was the last conversation we would have before divorce. She apologized and we hung up the phone. The next day she calls me early morning at 5 , i didnt pick up and she left a text saying she feels like talking something to me and promised she wont bother me again once i move out. This is the 4th day she texted me since the day she said she didn't have anything to say. I was intrigued and later in the day i texted her giving an ultimatum saying that i did not wanted any of this. However on july 6th the relationship will come to an end and we need to stick to official divorce matters unless she calls off divorce. However this one last time i would allow her to talk to me. Whether she wishes to talk or not i wished her the very best in life. That evening she saw the text and called me furious and said she will abide by what i said. She has many questions in mind she will never get answers to. She challenged me if i ever liked her. She asked why i took her to parents to get her insulted. She said me and my parents indirectly forced her in this divorce although she didnt want it. She didn't give a chance for me to speak up and hung up. I texted after a while that she was crazy in saying such things and if she wanted to make proper decisions with good mindset she is welcome to call me and talk like adults. She said she is left with nothing to say as I decided that today was the last call. I reiterated about talking like adults to make proper decisions. She texted that she wants to abide by her decision and she will never contact me again and expected me to do the same. I did not respond back.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Does any expert care to chime in and provide your tboughts/feedback here?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
It sounds like your wife is struggling with the finality of the situation, like she is confused and hurt and lashing out at you.
I think you need to not react to her emotionality. Detached friendliness is best. Do what you need to in order to protect yourself and your kids. Remember you are the lighthouse.
I am no expert but I wish you the best. It sounds tough to bear, but you are strong enough to do it. Hang in there.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Thanks for the advice. Fortunately I don't have kids with her. So it helps someway. I have detached myself and moving on. However, I also need to set my boundaries which is why I reminded her we should no longer be communicating like friends. She needs to accept and respect my boundaries as well instead of lading out at me. She had her last say before I could say anything.I just listened and didn't say a word. Hope down the line after divorce is final she will hopefully realize that i was not a bad person after all.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
It sounds like you are in a solid spot if you can listen to her and not react. You cant worry about what she thinks about you now or later, it is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is how you feel about yourself.
In terms of boundaries, just don't answer her calls or respond to her texts if you dont want to (I guess you could block her). But you cant control what she does, just ignore it and dont let it affect you.
Congrats on getting this far in such good shape.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Thanks. So are you suggesting despite the fact she mentioned that she wont contact me and If she DOES again, i simply don't respond to it? Also she is behaving as if i am responsible for everything that has hapoened so far. She has not taken responsibility for even 1% of the issues we had. Still blames my family who had nothing to do with her divorce decision and still blames me for everything which is sad.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
It is your call and your boundaries. What are your boundaries right now?
If you feel like it would be healthier to go full NC then do it. A lot of divorce books recommend that in order to fully heal. Are you still trying to DB? There are posters on here who have reconciled after D, so that is not impossible. However, it sounds like your W still has a ton of issues to work through and is a long way from being ready to be in any stable relationship with anyone.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Yea. She seems to be suffering from some negative attachments that happened in the past and is unable to let go off. Right now i am doing LRT and I only speak to my wife when she contacts me. However every time she interacts with me she is either very emotional or very upset. Hence I set the boundaries since the court date is nearing. After divorce I am done with this relationship and want to move on. Henxe I suggested this approach for which she got really upset.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Yea. She seems to be suffering from some negative attachments that happened in the past and is unable to let go off. Right now i am doing LRT and I only speak to my wife when she contacts me. However every time she interacts with me she is either very emotional or very upset. Hence I set the boundaries since the court date is nearing. After divorce I am done with this relationship and want to move on. Henxe I suggested this approach for which she got really upset.
nutcrac, I hope you are right that you are done with the MR and want to move on. However, a few posts above you point out that it is sad that she refuses to take even 1% of the blame for the MR problems.
To me that is not someone that is done and wants to move on. Remember, detachment is not LRT (please don't take that to mean that I don't think you should be LRT since it sounds like it is perfect for your sitch), but it is separating YOUR emotions from HER words and actions. When you can post that you are done and want to move on without having just said it is sad that she said this or didn't say that, or did this or didn't do that, then you will be properly detached in order to move forward healthy and happy. So think about that.
DBing is less about saving the MR and more saving yourself. The irony is that when you save yourself, oftentimes the MR is saved as well.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks for the response Steve85. Yes you are right Detachment is 100% out of the emotional attachment. I have been aiming for that and my wife has driven me almost to the edge of it. A few more steps towards detachment and I will pursue someone who can understand me better. Its been a long journey so far and so i sometimes see if there is any hope left in this relationship. When she spoke yesterday she hinted she expects some kind of an apology from my parents for her the argument that happened. Although I hurt my parents by losing contact and apologised to her on their behalf, I am willing to have them apologize provided she can withdraw the divorce. But there is no gaurantee. So was wondering how I can handle the situation? If not i should simply LRT and carry on with my life?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Thanks for the response Steve85. Yes you are right Detachment is 100% out of the emotional attachment. I have been aiming for that and my wife has driven me almost to the edge of it. A few more steps towards detachment and I will pursue someone who can understand me better. Its been a long journey so far and so i sometimes see if there is any hope left in this relationship. When she spoke yesterday she hinted she expects some kind of an apology from my parents for her the argument that happened. Although I hurt my parents by losing contact and apologised to her on their behalf, I am willing to have them apologize provided she can withdraw the divorce. But there is no gaurantee. So was wondering how I can handle the situation? If not i should simply LRT and carry on with my life?
WHy are you brokering between your parents and her? Are your parents really sorry for the argument? Or are they only going to apologize to try to save your MR? You're right, likely she doesn't think they are willing to and IF they did she would probably find another roadblock to R.
Nutcrac, detachment isn't about being able to move on to someone else. Detachment = self differentiation. That is being happy with yourself regardless if you are with your W, or a new GF or not. And if you are with one of them, being happy with yourself no matter what they say or do. So many posters on this board have their own definition of detachment. But if you are framing it in terms of jumping from your W to someone new, then you don't understand truly what detachment means.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yes i think i am at a point that i have understood her games enough and no longer trust her. Even if i make my parents apologize there is no gaurantee that this relationship can be saved. She is simply pushing the guilt and blame towards me as much as possible so she can remove herself from this relationship. Yes i am doing GAL and moving on with my life. It doesnt mattet what she says or does to me as i am simply letting go off the past.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
When you were a WW, would you characterize urself as having had some personality disorder? And you recovered from it eventually to get back with your husband?
No, I did not have any personality disorder. When waywards are at their peak of rebellion, they may cause their loved ones to wonder if something is mentally wrong, b/c this is not the person they have always known.
I recovered from my wayward mindset, but I had no personality disorder.
Good to know. So suppose taking example of my WAW who is not wayward but is just walking out of my life. She mentioned in her supposedly final text " I dont deserve her!". I have been her doormat for 6 years and i finally got this from her. I have read your detachment and accordingly we should not beleive anything they say and only 50% of what they do. If i characterize my wife as normal, what does the above statement really mean then? Also after we permanently divorce and move on, will she ever realize all the hurt she caused me ever?
As I told you previously, I think your situation caused a lot of disappointment and anger in your W. She is directing that anger at you, rather than trying to get a better understanding or therapy, MC, etc. You both have suffered, but I see her as being disillusioned about MR and not knowing how to deal with her feelings. She took the sexual issue as a personal offense. That made her angry. She needs counseling and educated about these type of issues. If not, then she is going to target you.
"If i characterize my wife as normal, what does the above statement really mean then?"
I believe she is venting a lot of frustration and anger. Don't take to heart the painful things she says about you/MR. It is a sad and unfortunate situation, which could be resolved if she believed that and would cooperate. Hopefully, time will dissipate a lot of anger.
"Also after we permanently divorce and move on, will she ever realize all the hurt she caused me ever?"
If she matures, and learns more about these type os sexual issues......and learn more about men........then, I believe she will understand the pain she inflicted. I can't remember your ages, but she sounds like a young lady who thought M would be all rose pedals & wine...........and not being able to have intercourse was not the romantic picture she had invisioned. She did not have the sex Ed to know how to deal with certain real life issues in the bedroom. She blamed herself, and she blamed you. Neither are to be blamed, but she has to learn. Time and maturity have a natural way of teaching us.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
We both are 35. However like younsaid she still puts all the blame and anger towards me. I hope somewher down the line she will realize the pain she caused me. By that time it would be too late for this relationship as I will have moved on. I am really disappointed the way she never allowed me to be trusted and close to her to have sex. Fine she canvent all anger towards me for the rest of her life. But life is too short for all this drama to happen.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Good to know. So suppose taking example of my WAW who is not wayward but is just walking out of my life. She mentioned in her supposedly final text " I dont deserve her!". I have been her doormat for 6 years and i finally got this from her. I have read your detachment and accordingly we should not beleive anything they say and only 50% of what they do. If i characterize my wife as normal, what does the above statement really mean then? Also after we permanently divorce and move on, will she ever realize all the hurt she caused me ever?
This is from Did's thread.
Nutcrac, lots of LBSs go through this "will they ever realize how much pain they caused?" And my question to this is: Why does that matter? To me that is a question that proves that you have not detached. You are still to worried about her thoughts, feelings and doings.
Here is the key, she realizes the pain she is causing. The problem is not one of realization, the problem is she just doesn't care. In another thread I read that the WW/WAW said to the LBH that she was tired of being sensible and wanted to be a "wild grandma". This is the mindset (as sandi can describe better than I can) of the wayward. They know they are leaving a path of destruction, they just don't care.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yes Steve85. I understand that. Its difficult to comprehend the thoughts. So assume all her crying and showing emotions are just crocodile tears. However still trying to detach slowly as its a step by step process.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
I have seen some of your most recent posts that you provide scenario based conversations between LBH and WAS. Would you be able to provide me some possibilities in the future on how my relationship would end so I can accept it and move on with life. My D is looming in just couple of weeks.
I will gave you a bit of context on what happened durring the last conversation.
We are seperated since 3 months. WAS insisted in talking to me casually and sent me a text while i was packing to relocate to a different city permanently leaving marital home. I agreed.
WAS: its been a hard time for both of us but i will always be your well wisher. If you need any help let me know i will be glad to.
Me: i am doing fine. I will manage and thanks for asking.
WAS: as you know we finally managed to decide what is best for both of us and this D is the solution. We both finally agreed mutually.
Me: i never agrred to D and there was no mutual agreement.This was your decision. You decided and I am OK with it. Please dont say that we mutually agreed.
WAS: All right i will take the entire blame for the downfall of this his marraige but i know we didnt have an option.
Me: i am not blaming you or anyone else here.its just a fact and i am simply stating it.thats all.
WAS: (crying and emotional) you have decided not to contest anything and allowed me to keep all money i earned. I cannot repay you back for all the emotional support and help you gave me to help me where i stand.you have to take money from me.
Me: listemed to her for a while. I stopped her short befire she continued long. I have my own self respect. I have told you i dont need your money earlier and i dont want even now. Even if i am on deathbed i wont come for your money. Its yours. I have heard you this and lets not discuss this again please.
WAS: Please dont talk about death. I also wanted to advice you you need to be careful about your investments in shares and stocks.dont play around too much. Its bad.
Me: stopped her short and told her what i do with my Money and my investments is my decision. I really do not need your advise.
WAS: "i am sorry".
(She said she was sorry after a very long time. I have never heard that word from her mouth since ages)
Me: when are your parents going to your native place so i can mail the marital assets to your home?
WAS: they are here right now and coming to me on d day. in another 2 months they leave back to our country but you can donate that to charity if its such a burden to you and your family. Even after divorce you can come to me anytime and i will give you money. Its always yours.
Me: i will see what can be done aboutbtjose assets.I think at this point we have had enough discussions and i think hopefully this is the last conversation we will ever have.
I said this and asked her to end the call unless we had eanything to discuss. We hung up.
Next day she calls me at 5 am before she left for work and i did not pick up. She sent a text saying she promised not to disturb or bother me one i leave this place but however she has few things she wants to talk about.
I woke up in the morning saw the message and texted back this - i never wanted any of this to happen and never did. Our relationship permanently ends in few weeks. At this time we need to keep our conversations strictly to divorce matters. However i will indulge u this one last time.remember this is the last convo we will EVER have. I want you to agree to my terms. A few chit chat on day of divorce and one email from you after divorce regarding health insurance switch over (i still pay her health insurance) and i will send an email / mail to send marital gifts back to her native. Wether you agree to these terms or not i want to wish you the very best in your life. She sees text after work and calls me furiously with agony and emotions that evening.
WAS on call : consider this my last call per your request. There are many things in this relationship that were never answered and i may never find a closure or solution for it. Why did you marry me when you never loved me? Just because you wanted to keep up with the promise you made for marraige? I gave you 6 months time expecting you to do something about the way i was treated by your parents. Now all this is too late (she expects apology from my parents who i have not been in touch in more than 6 months. Of course doesn't accept any of her faults for how she treated them) i did not want this divorce. However i did not have an option. You and your parents forced me to take this option because you all wanted this divorce to happen initiated from my end and not from your end. You really dont know the condition that i am in right now and leaving you in this agony. Regarding the email ,why should i send? I will have my lawyer contact you. Wish you all.the best.and hung up.
During the entire course of time i never spoke a word except the initial greeting. I simply listened. I sent her this text after that(i shouldnt have but i had to make myself heard) - what u said is crazy. You are a grown up woman and you can take your decisions.no one is forcing you to do that for you. I did not want this divorce and i never did.if you still want to discuss like a grown adult i am willing to.
She texted back - i am a grown woman and i have taken my decision. Consider this my last msg and text per your suggestion. Good luck and all the best for your future.
I texted - i reiterate if you still want to discuss like a grown adult i am willing to.
She texted back - i am a grown woman and i have made my decision and i will abide with it. I will not contact you and neither should you! End this. "you dont deserve me!"
After that it been 2 weeks + and no contact from either of us. Please provide some possible scenarios going forward and how i should deal with it. And hopefully a good closure to this relationship so it can help me move on.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Wow! Well, it isn't often I am at a loss for words.......but at the moment, I can't think of a possible scenario or conversation, if I am understanding what you want. Both of you are seriously attached emotionally, and don't know how to move toward each other or move forward without each other. Both of you are saying you don't want the D. Both of you are angry and blaming each other for getting the D. She wants you to tell her not to go through with it.......and you are being prideful (of all times) and won't tell her. She is being prideful, b/c you won't tell her to stop the D. You are putting the burden on her back, and that makes her more angry at you. That is crazy!
Both of you need professional therapy, in order to make peace with each other.......and to move forward, with or without each other. She did not have the education or the skills to know how to deal with the sexual impotency. She is 35, and probably thinking her biological clock is running out to have children. In some ways, she feels life (you) have cheated her. Do you see what I am saying here? She is bitter. She kept her virginity until she M at 30! That's pretty remarkable in this day & time. What was she rewarded? A H who could not perform sexually, and maybe leaving her childless. In the meantime, you are angry at her for not allowing you to get closer??? I suppose that is code, meaning as to help you in the sex department? I'm not sure. As I told you, my H had impotency issues when we were first M, and like your W, I didn't know what to do, (I'm talking about a girl who had never seen a picture of a naked man, much less seen any type of movie scenes showing adults having sex). I had been very sheltered, was an innocent teenager when I M. Quiet honestly, in my H's attempts to get "closer", it kind of left me feeling turned off........simply b/c I was sexually uneducated and did not know how to help him, and he didn't tell me.....so I just laid there, waiting on him. I thought men just knew what to do, and I never thought about something not functioning. I'm so sorry if I am not being delicate enough b/c I certainly don't want to hurt your feelings. I am trying to tell you that this is nobody's fault. At least, I don't see it. You both are mad and blaming each other.......and it is neither one's fault. As I've said before, your case is unique, compared to the majority of stories we read on the board. That's why I keep saying you need professional counseling.
Neither of you are addressing the true issue, as far as I can tell in your conversations. This has nothing to do with your parents. What she did was not right, but that's not the main problem, and never was. Both of you are talking around the main problem.
This is a sad, sad situation, b/c you love each other. The only advice I can offer is to seek counseling. If she is returning to her native country, then I suppose the counseling would have to be separate. I am just saying that you may have to see a counselor to get guidance in how to accept this situation, if the D is not stopped. As for as a conversation that would help you move on.......I'm not sure I fully understand, b/c you've told her you want no more conversations.......so what are you wanting to really say? Do you want to tell her to stop the D, or do you want to move on?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Really appreciate looking into my stitch and responding. However, I have a few points to make.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
She wants you to tell her not to go through with it.......and you are being prideful (of all times) and won't tell her. She is being prideful, b/c you won't tell her to stop the D. You are putting the burden on her back, and that makes her more angry at you. That is crazy!
I beg to differ that i have never attempted to stop the divorce. Of all things on earth, I have been doing my best and asked her to reconsider many number of times. However she is very adamant. Just like many other postings here, i hace stopped asking her as it appears like pursuing. So your above statement about me not stopping her is wrong. I have attempted every opportunity to have a meaningfull & peaceful conversation with her. However she doesn't budge. It appears she is under the influence of her family or she is simply leaving me due to my issues and my hate towards my family. I don't knkw!!
Originally Posted By: sandi2
As for as a conversation that would help you move on.......I'm not sure I fully understand, b/c you've told her you want no more conversations.......so what are you wanting to really say? Do you want to tell her to stop the D, or do you want to move on?
I want this relationship back more than anything. However i am just manging things under my control. I don't beleive in divorce. I don't want it and i never did. However i dont have an option. I am simply a scape goat and made to accept my fate here and forced to move on. What do you suggest on how i handle this?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Also the reason i said no more conversations is because we are left with just 2 weeks. She still is bringing money matters and topics which have been discussed many times before. I wanted to give an ultimatum and set boundaries. As there is no point in discussing all these when the court has set the date. What else would u suggest if i dont stand my ground even now?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Bumping again for Sandi2's attention 😊😊
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
What else would u suggest if i dont stand my ground even now?
I got the impression she was upset b/c you did not contest the D. Am I wrong?
Here's the thing, Nutcracker. I don't see how you can have it both ways........standing your ground (of no contact? Exactly what part do you mean?) and pursuing her with a contact message, asking her not to go through with the D. I"ve asked you to tell me what you really want to say to her in this message. You told me want to say something that helps you to move on..........and you have already said it. You said it in your last conversation.
Now, if you want to call, text, email.....or whatever, as a last ditch effort to stop the D, then we can try to compose some type of dialog. But you have to tell me specifically what you mean by standing your ground. What part would feel like a compromise? Would asking her not to go through with the D feel like a compromise?
Again,you have to tell me what you want to relay to your W. I can't just pull something out of the air when I don't know what you want.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well she is emotionally upset and feeling sad that I simply let her go without contesting. So she feels obligated to give money to me as I had worked hard my end to make her stand where she is ( she now earns twice if what i ear btw)
The reason i want to move on is I am frustrated and I am giving up this relationship. I have told every ocassion before and even during the last text conversation that I did not want this divorce and I never did. What I meant standing my ground is majority of time she talks she only brings up money matters which pushes my buttons. So i asked her to end it. Now she sen me the text in response to what i sent that both should not contact each other. If i contact her now its solely pursuit right? She knkws I want her back and she has told before not to mentuin that. And I am so confused. I am just following the LRT as I have nothing else left in this situation now. You guide me. Should i simply stay quiet and let this divirce go through or contact her despite her giving a warning not to contact her?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Also Sandi2, she has some symptoms of Bipolar disorder. Her mather has it although she has not been diagnosed with it. She used to take some minor dosage of medication for another disorder dysthymia over a year ago and stopped it all of a sudden after which her mood swings intensified pretty badly. 70 % of the time in day she is angry cold and depressed. And she has rapid mood swings throughout the day. Very.low on energy and tired almost always. She has low self esteem too. So not sure how i can overcome all her imperfections and deliver my message to her. As she thinks pretty much that I am the cause for what she is like today.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
You want her to stop the D, and want her to accept her part of the breakdown, but to keep standing your ground? IDK how to word such a message, without pursuing.
You: " Would you agree to join me in seeking professional help to save our M?".
WW: "You said no more contact!"
You: "Will you consider stopping the D and work with me in getting professional help for our M?"
WW: "Will you admit everything is your fault?"
You: "Can we agree to not blame one another and get the help we need?"
At this point, it is getting very pushy. I just don't have the perfect dialog scenario for what you want. Maybe someone else is more qualified to word what you want.
My heart goes out to you, truly. In all honesty, I think you are feeling panic b/c the D date is coming quickly, and the realization is scary when you are so emotionally attached. You've not had sufficient time. Once it is official, then you might feel some emotional relief, IDK. At the moment, you feel desperate to "do" something. I think I can understand anyone experiencing those feelings.
I don't believe you've really heard the last from her. If nothing else, b/c of her mental issues and instability. I think she's having a difficult time, just as you are. You know, she tried to talk to you several times and you refused. You saw it as standing your ground? Anyway......if she calls again, maybe you will want to hear from her...or maybe you will want to move on.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I agree she did talk to me a few times and i listened and validated as much as possible. I did offer her professional help from a sex therapist. Forwarded her a case study of non consummation that he had sent me. She read it but chose to ignore the offer to join an independent session. Even during the last conversation i repeatedly reiterated to have a meaningful and peaceful conversation and she refused. So i am really in a dilemma and this makes me wonder what and how to proceed. At this time i dont want any acceptance from her. I just want her to realize what she is doing by burning these bridges. I am ready to forgive her and accept things the way they are.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Thanks Sandi2 and all the forum members who have supported me so far in these stressful times. This forum has a lot of info that gives strength and effort to rejuvenate broken hearted. So i hope down the line we will come out successfully.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Your wife's personal disorder characteristics resemble some of mine that I faced with my wife. However, I don't know if you can call that narcicissm. My wife's mother (my MIL) is clinically diagnosed with bipolar mood disorder. And my wife shares some of those traits from her mother although she has not been diagnosed as such. But a few years ago she was diagnosed with dysthymia and she used to take SSRIs as medication. She was fine until she stopped it and became a walk away and now hates me. We had our own SSM issues that i have discussed in my thread which is partly my fault too. I will list some of her characteristics and see if these match your and let me know your thoughts-
1) She used to verbally and emotionally abuse me until i felt very downtrodden and crying. Only then she used to feel releived and console me. 2) Highly moody - she used to happy and moments later her mood swung to unhappiness treating me like dirt with abuse and discontent. 3) Never ever asked apology for anything wrong that she did. Expected me to apologize even for her faults / misdoings. 4) Sometimes disrespect me in public (not in front of friends) but general public by raising her vouce against me. 5) Didn't socialize with me or gel with me well. Whenever i approached her intimately she allowed me to be intimate with her but never ever allowed sex. Used to give some or the other lame excuse and postpone it. 6) Hardly expressed her heart feelings. Did not allow me to express any of mine. Never once asked me how i felt when i was sad or upset. Always assumed that i was sad because of her. 7) Used her family (parents and brother) to rally against me and threaten separation every time an argument happened. 8) very discreet with money- never allowed a joint account, didnt even change her maiden last name to mine. 9) most of all, no trust in her heart for me. Mostly suspicious. Thought i never loved her or cared for her. Even to this date she doesn't trust me. 10) Thought that i was gay at one point. She had lingering thoughts and had doubted me a lot quite some time until i gave an ultimatum and she fibally stopped calling me that. But i dont know if her suspicion still holds good. 11) One day During Separation, when i apologized and validated something to her - she said she was vored of hearing same things again and again and wanted to hear something new from me!!! 12) She never posted pictures of us together on facebook or any social media. She was may be ashamed of me or something. 13) worst of all every ocassion like our birthday, valentines or marraige anniversary was mostly a disaster as she used to pick up sone or the other fight / quarrel and make a miserable day out of it. 14) She said she never wanted to have a kid from a family like mine and if she ever did she would desert the kid in streets and leave me for good. This hurt me a lot. Fortunately she left me for good. 15) Hardly discussed about me with her friends. If she ever did it was generally neutral or negative. 16) on a positive note she liked my company, spendimg time with each other, going out together, however that spark was always non existent.
Do you feel your wife resemble any of the above characteristics? Do you feel these are narcissistic tendencies? Or do you want to list some of her characteristics you felt she was very narcissistic about?
Sandi2, Based on the info i posted in the other forum above, what are your thoughts? I know this doesnt change the outcome of divorce but you felt a bit surprised. I just wanted to know your opinion on why you felt that way?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Go read my reply on my thread. I am going to read your stich again from the beginning and chime in tomorrow.
Here are a few points.
Are you sure you understand "Validation"?
Your wife sounds very manipulative, and much more overtly so. Be aware of this.
You need to consider what Sandi said, What do you actually want? How are you going to get it there?
Divorce takes time, there are several opportunities to stop it moving forward if you choose to, if she wants a D, she will get one, if you dont, you dont have to. Honestly, worry less about divorce, it will happen if it happens and its not the end all be all. (i cant believe i just said that and meant it, damn things do change)
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
I contacted my wife yesterday by text casually and she didn't respond. I drafted a long farewell letter and sent it to her. Its a pusuing effort and I had to do it. The letter addressed many of her unanswered questions as to why I didnt make love to her and why i married her and why i took her to my native place. I made it clear that none of this was for ulterior motive and i mentioned i had lost attraction towards her over a period of time due to constant argument and fights. She read the letter and called me in a fit of rage. And went on about all the negative things in the letter. In the letter i mentioned that she had a personality defect that she cannot sense simple answers to explanations. She challenged me and during the time she even called me narcissist! I simply listened to her and allowed her to talk. Did not say a single word. She said that letter made her easier to move on as there was so much rubbish in it. And then she said she will see me in court on July 6th. Asked me if i had anything to say. I said No and she hung up. I processed her words for a while and decided to call this quits. So i texted her saying that it would be our last conversation and after divorce its better to not be in contact. So we both can move on respective lives ahead. As soon as i said that, she became belligerent and defensive and shouting. I disconnected the call and asked her to be peaceful so we can talk like adults and respectfully talk. Kept calling back and she was still belligerent. This went on for a while. I stood my ground by giving each other turns of conversation time. Initially she didn't like it but i trained her. And at one point when i truly meant to cut off the relationship and texted her goodbye, she called me and said that i am the one losing out and not her. And she requested some kind of contact and to let her know as soon as i move on so it may help her move on with her life. Otherwise she is expected to live a lonely life for a long time to come. She said since i am emotiinally stronger she expects me to at least send her a wedding card so that it can give her solace. I said i am not planning to keep any type of contact with her as she called it quits by filing for divorce. This went on for a while. I disconnected the calls whenever she went angry on me. Trained her to speak normally with me. And it really worked. Slowly she became emotional and let me know how much she missed me. She used to roam around the old marital home 4 or 5 times and cried deeply. I also said i missed her and i was at her apartment outside sometimes staring at her window without her knowing. But that will not make any difference. As sandi2 mentioned, she feels she felt unloved and made me lose my physical attention towards her because she felt she wss not attractive enuf for me. Why she would stay with me? She said her heart has formed a callous never to give me a husband's place. She can simply keep me as a well wisher and friend for which i am not ready. I said that i had been to therapy and it really helped. I expected her to also think about it. She said why i didnt advice all these 6 months time and why now? I wanted her to have enough space to think what she wants rather than blaming others. She said none of my friends even bothered to contact her. She was left lonely and struggled really bad in winters and snow. She was all alone. She was miserable desperate and craved for me and i was not there. Cries everyday and consoles herself. Feels lonely and miserable. She now hates me. I said i did not ask u to leave home and you made your choice. I still have feelings for you. But i cant force u to take a step back on divorce and its your decision. Not mine still. You need to at least trust me now. It apoears she thought i was the one who stopped our mutual friends to not talk to her for selfish reasons. But i told her that is incorrect. I wanted her to have enough space and time and make her own decision. Not sonething based on friends and family. Finally after a lot of back and forth conversations and heated emotional exchanges she agreed to meet my friends today. My request to hold off the dissolution for a month left unanswered and she still wants to aggressively pursue the divorce. I simply listened to her and validated her feelings with putting strong emphasis on mutual respect. It really worked. She even said the letter was so markedly different from another letter i had hid in my cupboard which had more of my true heart feelings. she had spied and read that and admitted to it. I was very surprised that she had done that. At the same time she was continually saying she has not observed any changes in me although she gave enuf time.
Anyways,i feel my wife is now exhibiting a lot of narcissistic traits. By calling me a narcissist she just projected her narcissistic feelings towards me. Although she might be narcissistic, i still feel she has strong feelimgs towards me and loves me deep in her heart. She could have manipulated me. Her self ego is too much. i feel after listening to her yesterday i should withdraw my consent to dissolution and start pursuing her as she was left alone. And be strong and confident in my pursuit. I have developed it. And i like that she can listen to me and have open communication with me. If she wants to pursue divorce she can file it herself. I will not stop her from it. At least if we need to separate we have to separate with hate and not through love. Forum members, let me know your thoughts.
You put too much stock into her words. Believe nothing she says and only half of what she does.
Look, do what you want, but as I told another DBer in their thread, 99.9999% of LBHs that pursue and pressure end up D. If you do DBing perfectly it still is only a 50/50 chance. 50% > .0001%, though which is why DBing is much better than pursuit and pressure.
Good luck in your new life. I hope you can stick to your proclamation that you won't remain in contact after D, but I don't believe you will.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
The fact is i did No Contact for a long while and it didn't work. She took it otherwise. Manipullation or changing statements, she still has some feelimgs for me. But she is too stubnorn to let go off her ego. So i need to take a stand of stopping this divorce from my end. She can go ahead and refile divorce or do whatever the heck she wants. I will withdraw my consent as its not the right approach. I know she will go nuts mad at me and stuff. But that is the right way.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
The fact is i did No Contact for a long while and it didn't work. She took it otherwise. Manipullation or changing statements, she still has some feelimgs for me. But she is too stubnorn to let go off her ego. So i need to take a stand of stopping this divorce from my end. She can go ahead and refile divorce or do whatever the heck she wants. I will withdraw my consent as its not the right approach. I know she will go nuts mad at me and stuff. But that is the right way.
I support that move. If you are against D then you should never be the one to file and do the work.
But I would suggest you keep DBing. GAL, 180s, detachment and being the spouse only a fool would leave.
Going Dark, or LRT is for a very specific set of circumstances. Lots of DBers confuse detachment with going dark. It isn't the same thing.
My original point was to NOT pursue, but to DB with the approach I mentioned, but not by going dark.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
The fact is i did No Contact for a long while and it didn't work.
What do you mean NC "didn't work"? What results were you expecting to see come from NC?
Sandi2,
Thanks for checking into my thread. My wife said during the last few months, she felt since i didn't contact that I have forgotten her as I had gone completely dark. In a way it worked for her to miss me very much. She Questioned me - Where I was when she was roaming alone in ice cold snow winters? Where I was when she was sobbing profusely alone and going through difficult times? where I was when I should have atleast asked if she was even dead or alive. Even our mutual friends did not even contact and ask how she was doing. She thinks i stopped them due to selfish reasons so they dont get to know her side of story. She felt isolated and alone and was in pain when she spoke with me. It may be manipulative or not, but I really felt for her. She said for a long time to come she will be alone. She wanted me to send her my wedding card so she can hopefully move on in her life as well. Nevertheless she still wants to proceed with divorce on the July 6th. I have decided to withdraw my consent as its not the right thing to do. She may be belligerent, may take a TRO or curse me, I really don't care. I will simply withdraw my consent and love her from distance and pursue once in a while based on her moods. I will continue my GAL while she finds a new way to divorce me. Let me know your thoughts?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
The fact is i did No Contact for a long while and it didn't work.
What do you mean NC "didn't work"? What results were you expecting to see come from NC?
Sandi2,
Thanks for checking into my thread. My wife said during the last few months, she felt since i didn't contact that I have forgotten her as I had gone completely dark. In a way it worked for her to miss me very much. She Questioned me - Where I was when she was roaming alone in ice cold snow winters? Where I was when she was sobbing profusely alone and going through difficult times? where I was when I should have atleast asked if she was even dead or alive. Even our mutual friends did not even contact and ask how she was doing. She thinks i stopped them due to selfish reasons so they dont get to know her side of story. She felt isolated and alone and was in pain when she spoke with me. It may be manipulative or not, but I really felt for her. She said for a long time to come she will be alone. She wanted me to send her my wedding card so she can hopefully move on in her life as well. Nevertheless she still wants to proceed with divorce on the July 6th. I have decided to withdraw my consent as its not the right thing to do. She may be belligerent, may take a TRO or curse me, I really don't care. I will simply withdraw my consent and love her from distance and pursue once in a while based on her moods. I will continue my GAL while she finds a new way to divorce me. Let me know your thoughts?
My thoughts are that the only thing I agree with what you said was withdrawing your consent. Make her do the heavy work of the D.
You admit that she might be being manipulative. Then you go on to say "but I really felt for her." So you don't mind being manipulated.
She is contradicting herself ("I felt all alone. But I still want a divorce.") is because she is lying. She is not being honest with you. She may not even being honest with herself!
I fell nutcrac that if you continue on this path of letting her "feel for her" that you will end up D'd permanently. You shouldn't even have had this discussion with her!
Good luck man. If you want a chance to save your marriage (and understand it is only a chance) then you will listen to sandi.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
She read the letter and called me in a fit of rage. And went on about all the negative things in the letter. In the letter i mentioned that she had a personality defect that she cannot sense simple answers to explanations.
Whether you intended to or not, you blamed her for everything. You even went so far as to tell her she has a mental illness they may have caused everything. These were very damaging things to say. First we all would have told you not to give her that letter, second even if you decided to give it to her anyway it should have been an APOLOGY letter where you owned your mistakes.
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I processed her words for a while and decided to call this quits. So i texted her saying that it would be our last conversation and after divorce its better to not be in contact. So we both can move on respective lives ahead.
If you decided to call it quits then why contact her at all? You are using every excuse you can to engage her when you should be leaving her alone. You are just applying constant, overwhelming pressure to her.
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As soon as i said that, she became belligerent and defensive and shouting.
Probably because you are trying to be controlling and manipulative.
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I disconnected the call and asked her to be peaceful so we can talk like adults and respectfully talk. Kept calling back and she was still belligerent.
Stop calling her.
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Anyways,i feel my wife is now exhibiting a lot of narcissistic traits. By calling me a narcissist she just projected her narcissistic feelings towards me.
I disagree, she does not sound at all narcissistic. I don't think you do either although I get the impression you are very controlling which she may be confusing with narcissism.
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i feel after listening to her yesterday i should withdraw my consent to dissolution and start pursuing her as she was left alone. And be strong and confident in my pursuit.
You are really all over the place. You said earlier in your post that you decided to call it quits, now you're going into full-blown pursuit mode? How do you think that makes you look to her? Wildly inconsistent at best.
I think you need a reset. This whole interaction was a bit of a disaster. Pull back and give her time and space. Study up on DB'ing, read the book again, read Cadet's links on the first page of your thread. Read Sandi's rules. Put it all into practice. Don't pick and choose what you want out of it, READ to UNDERSTAND.
She read the letter and called me in a fit of rage. And went on about all the negative things in the letter. In the letter i mentioned that she had a personality defect that she cannot sense simple answers to explanations.
Whether you intended to or not, you blamed her for everything. You even went so far as to tell her she has a mental illness they may have caused everything. These were very damaging things to say. First we all would have told you not to give her that letter, second even if you decided to give it to her anyway it should have been an APOLOGY letter where you owned your mistakes.
I agree. The letter was not the best approach. But I had to convey feelings to her and had to pursue as we are looming in with court date in just 2 weeks. I wanted to know where she stood. I did mention good points and I did mention some of the bad things. They may not have been perfect. But I had to convey something. Interestingly she has checked a different letter that I had hid in my cupboard which had heartfelt feelings.
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I processed her words for a while and decided to call this quits. So i texted her saying that it would be our last conversation and after divorce its better to not be in contact. So we both can move on respective lives ahead.
If you decided to call it quits then why contact her at all? You are using every excuse you can to engage her when you should be leaving her alone. You are just applying constant, overwhelming pressure to her.
If I say I called it quits, doesn't meant i can completely be done with it. Ya I called it quits because she had been demanding divorce since a long time. Now that I see she has feelings for me somewhere deep in her heart(Whether manipulative or not) she does want to live with me. I dont want to just give up like that. I will fight for her. She wanted me to do the same and instead I went Dark. That didnt work. Maybe should would have given some other lame excuse when I would be in touch with her. Now I am ready to face her wrath with my emotional strength that I have acquired. She does miss me. Unfortunately she has a callous and too much stubborn pride. I dont want divorce and then spoil the chances of reconciling later. I have conveyed this to her all along. She is not a WAYWARD. She is a WALK AWAY. I made mistakes, I keep doing mistakes, but I have come a long way since I was 6 months ago. From what I can see, her expectation from me is not to go NC, but do something else that lightens her heart. A bit of pursuit and show her love from distance. Complete NC or going Dark is not helping in my case.
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As soon as i said that, she became belligerent and defensive and shouting.
Probably because you are trying to be controlling and manipulative.
Nothing I said was controlling or manipulative. I was just wishing her the best so we could part peacefully. However she does not want to cut off the relationship which is what I sensed from the call. She is hurt very bad and has a very stubborn ego and pride. I want that to be diffused as time goes by.
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I disconnected the call and asked her to be peaceful so we can talk like adults and respectfully talk. Kept calling back and she was still belligerent.
Stop calling her.
I did.. But the disconnects helped as she mellowed down greatly and respected me. She did control her voice. If she straight away wanted divorce she could have manipulated by being too nice and indifferent and agreed for the last call. That is NOT WHAT SHE WANTS!!!
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Anyways,i feel my wife is now exhibiting a lot of narcissistic traits. By calling me a narcissist she just projected her narcissistic feelings towards me.
I disagree, she does not sound at all narcissistic. I don't think you do either although I get the impression you are very controlling which she may be confusing with narcissism.
I could be controlling. But in the last few months I left her all by herself. I never bothered to ask her well being. Never contacted her, never even checked in on her. I went completely dark. She felt neglected and alone.
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i feel after listening to her yesterday i should withdraw my consent to dissolution and start pursuing her as she was left alone. And be strong and confident in my pursuit.
You are really all over the place. You said earlier in your post that you decided to call it quits, now you're going into full-blown pursuit mode? How do you think that makes you look to her? Wildly inconsistent at best.
Like I said just because I called it quits,doesn't mean I am done with her. She has her own issues to deal with and I have mine. Initial days there was a lot of anger in me as well as her. I have mellowed down. At this point of time I am ready to go either way - With her or without her. I have nothing to loose. But what she wants is to be chased, being cared for and being loved. Not being left alone lonely and neglected. She has been very lonely, which I could see from her tone of voice.
I think you need a reset. This whole interaction was a bit of a disaster. Pull back and give her time and space. Study up on DB'ing, read the book again, read Cadet's links on the first page of your thread. Read Sandi's rules. Put it all into practice. Don't pick and choose what you want out of it, READ to UNDERSTAND.
I have pulled back enough. In the last 3 months I have had conversations with her only thrice. My only expectation was that she would accept the letter and move on and not fight back. That is not what she did. Look after divorce, I have no intention to pursue her. If anything at all it has to be before. She needs to learn that. She needs to understand. Her stubborn pride is not only causing self destruction on her part but destroying rest others as well. That is not how it needs to end. Since she has missed me enough, I will try and bridge the gaps slowly. and hopefully she will understand and come back. If not i will make her a fool to leave me. I have nothing to loose again. I am confident as ever. Even yesterday i think she fought back because of my confident tone that she had never heard from me all along. I feel i know that I am in control and this is one of the best feelings I have so far. If she goes belligerent because I am withdrawing my consent, I don't give a damn. If she files a TRO, lodges a police complaint, I don't care. Let her do it. All I can say is, if we go by the book rule of DBing, It may not work perfect. If you are confident enough no matter what the outcome, I think your spouse would see it, which is what I have been doing. I don't give a damn to her BS. I still love her, I stand by it and I want her to take the all the tough steps to separate from me!
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
But I had to convey feelings to her and had to pursue as we are looming in with court date in just 2 weeks. I wanted to know where she stood. I did mention good points and I did mention some of the bad things. They may not have been perfect. But I had to convey something. Interestingly she has checked a different letter that I had hid in my cupboard which had heartfelt feelings.
Interesting choice of the word "had". No you didn't HAVE to. And even the hid in the cupboard is suspicious. Did you purposely hide it where you thought she'd find it?
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If I say I called it quits, doesn't meant i can completely be done with it. Ya I called it quits because she had been demanding divorce since a long time. Now that I see she has feelings for me somewhere deep in her heart(Whether manipulative or not) she does want to live with me. I dont want to just give up like that. I will fight for her. She wanted me to do the same and instead I went Dark. That didnt work. Maybe should would have given some other lame excuse when I would be in touch with her. Now I am ready to face her wrath with my emotional strength that I have acquired. She does miss me. Unfortunately she has a callous and too much stubborn pride. I dont want divorce and then spoil the chances of reconciling later. I have conveyed this to her all along. She is not a WAYWARD. She is a WALK AWAY. I made mistakes, I keep doing mistakes, but I have come a long way since I was 6 months ago. From what I can see, her expectation from me is not to go NC, but do something else that lightens her heart. A bit of pursuit and show her love from distance. Complete NC or going Dark is not helping in my case.
Head in the sand my friend. She wants to live with you but she is still insisting on divorce?!? Listen to yourself! Pursuit is the fastest way to push a WAW out the door. Say goodbye if you choose pursuit.
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Nothing I said was controlling or manipulative. I was just wishing her the best so we could part peacefully. However she does not want to cut off the relationship which is what I sensed from the call. She is hurt very bad and has a very stubborn ego and pride. I want that to be diffused as time goes by.
Those last two statements are the epitome of controlling and manipulative! "If only she wasn't so stubborn and prideful!" That is exactly want a controlling person says. "I want that to be diffused as time goes by." That might happen naturally one day, but I can tell you are going to try to "pursue" and "manipulate" that to happen on your timeline!
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I could be controlling. But in the last few months I left her all by herself. I never bothered to ask her well being. Never contacted her, never even checked in on her. I went completely dark. She felt neglected and alone.
Admit it nutcrac, even your leaving her all by herself was a way to try to control her! You didn't do it to give her time and space for her, you did it to try to make her miss you!!
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Like I said just because I called it quits,doesn't mean I am done with her. She has her own issues to deal with and I have mine. Initial days there was a lot of anger in me as well as her. I have mellowed down. At this point of time I am ready to go either way - With her or without her. I have nothing to loose. But what she wants is to be chased, being cared for and being loved. Not being left alone lonely and neglected. She has been very lonely, which I could see from her tone of voice.
Where are you getting that she wants to be chased??! Last I knew WAWs that demand divorce, the last thing they want is to be chased!!
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I have pulled back enough. In the last 3 months I have had conversations with her only thrice. My only expectation was that she would accept the letter and move on and not fight back. That is not what she did. Look after divorce, I have no intention to pursue her. If anything at all it has to be before. She needs to learn that. She needs to understand. Her stubborn pride is not only causing self destruction on her part but destroying rest others as well. That is not how it needs to end. Since she has missed me enough, I will try and bridge the gaps slowly. and hopefully she will understand and come back. If not i will make her a fool to leave me. I have nothing to loose again. I am confident as ever. Even yesterday i think she fought back because of my confident tone that she had never heard from me all along. I feel i know that I am in control and this is one of the best feelings I have so far. If she goes belligerent because I am withdrawing my consent, I don't give a damn. If she files a TRO, lodges a police complaint, I don't care. Let her do it. All I can say is, if we go by the book rule of DBing, It may not work perfect. If you are confident enough no matter what the outcome, I think your spouse would see it, which is what I have been doing. I don't give a damn to her BS. I still love her, I stand by it and I want her to take the all the tough steps to separate from me!
This is a very confusing paragraph. "I don't care what she chooses but I am going to pursue her!"
And finally nutcrac you talk about 3 months as if it is a long time. In most sitches 3 months is a blink of an eye. Good luck my friend you are going to need it. I fear you are going to create that which you fear. That is what pursuit and pressure of a WAW does.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
But I had to convey feelings to her and had to pursue as we are looming in with court date in just 2 weeks. I wanted to know where she stood. I did mention good points and I did mention some of the bad things. They may not have been perfect. But I had to convey something. Interestingly she has checked a different letter that I had hid in my cupboard which had heartfelt feelings.
Interesting choice of the word "had". No you didn't HAVE to. And even the hid in the cupboard is suspicious. Did you purposely hide it where you thought she'd find it?
Nope I did not. She somehow found my stuff.
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If I say I called it quits, doesn't meant i can completely be done with it. Ya I called it quits because she had been demanding divorce since a long time. Now that I see she has feelings for me somewhere deep in her heart(Whether manipulative or not) she does want to live with me. I dont want to just give up like that. I will fight for her. She wanted me to do the same and instead I went Dark. That didnt work. Maybe should would have given some other lame excuse when I would be in touch with her. Now I am ready to face her wrath with my emotional strength that I have acquired. She does miss me. Unfortunately she has a callous and too much stubborn pride. I dont want divorce and then spoil the chances of reconciling later. I have conveyed this to her all along. She is not a WAYWARD. She is a WALK AWAY. I made mistakes, I keep doing mistakes, but I have come a long way since I was 6 months ago. From what I can see, her expectation from me is not to go NC, but do something else that lightens her heart. A bit of pursuit and show her love from distance. Complete NC or going Dark is not helping in my case.
Head in the sand my friend. She wants to live with you but she is still insisting on divorce?!? Listen to yourself! Pursuit is the fastest way to push a WAW out the door. Say goodbye if you choose pursuit.
My stitch is a unique situation unlike majority of the situation in the forum. See some of the quotes by Sandi2. You will know that this is a different situation. We both are emotionally attached. The issue is the pride in both of us causing us to live apart without responding.
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Nothing I said was controlling or manipulative. I was just wishing her the best so we could part peacefully. However she does not want to cut off the relationship which is what I sensed from the call. She is hurt very bad and has a very stubborn ego and pride. I want that to be diffused as time goes by.
Those last two statements are the epitome of controlling and manipulative! "If only she wasn't so stubborn and prideful!" That is exactly want a controlling person says. "I want that to be diffused as time goes by." That might happen naturally one day, but I can tell you are going to try to "pursue" and "manipulate" that to happen on your timeline!
This is my feeling. I did not tell her that she has stubborn pride. Of course just because I say she has stubborn pride does not mean that I am controlling and manipulative. I need to stand my ground here by showing optimism and strong behavior. I simply dont want to give her divorce because she thinks I want it and am easily helping her by giving her hidden consent.
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I could be controlling. But in the last few months I left her all by herself. I never bothered to ask her well being. Never contacted her, never even checked in on her. I went completely dark. She felt neglected and alone.
Admit it nutcrac, even your leaving her all by herself was a way to try to control her! You didn't do it to give her time and space for her, you did it to try to make her miss you!!
Steve85, I was completely Dark and NC and only picked her calls when she called. If you say that I was controlling and manipulative by going dark, sorry to say that is absurd. And I gave her space to miss me?? I gave her all the time in the world to get back to her senses and missing was not the reason. Trust me! Missing is a natural process that happens during the time she gets her space and time. Its not done by me at least! I should have probably allowed to take her belligerent rather than going NC or dark for long. The space didnt help a lot but caused more apathy towards me.
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Like I said just because I called it quits,doesn't mean I am done with her. She has her own issues to deal with and I have mine. Initial days there was a lot of anger in me as well as her. I have mellowed down. At this point of time I am ready to go either way - With her or without her. I have nothing to loose. But what she wants is to be chased, being cared for and being loved. Not being left alone lonely and neglected. She has been very lonely, which I could see from her tone of voice.
Where are you getting that she wants to be chased??! Last I knew WAWs that demand divorce, the last thing they want is to be chased!!
Some women like my wife like to be chased. Else they feel unwanted. I know my wife. That is what she wants. If she wants to be chased i will do it. But I will also be within my limits.
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I have pulled back enough. In the last 3 months I have had conversations with her only thrice. My only expectation was that she would accept the letter and move on and not fight back. That is not what she did. Look after divorce, I have no intention to pursue her. If anything at all it has to be before. She needs to learn that. She needs to understand. Her stubborn pride is not only causing self destruction on her part but destroying rest others as well. That is not how it needs to end. Since she has missed me enough, I will try and bridge the gaps slowly. and hopefully she will understand and come back. If not i will make her a fool to leave me. I have nothing to loose again. I am confident as ever. Even yesterday i think she fought back because of my confident tone that she had never heard from me all along. I feel i know that I am in control and this is one of the best feelings I have so far. If she goes belligerent because I am withdrawing my consent, I don't give a damn. If she files a TRO, lodges a police complaint, I don't care. Let her do it. All I can say is, if we go by the book rule of DBing, It may not work perfect. If you are confident enough no matter what the outcome, I think your spouse would see it, which is what I have been doing. I don't give a damn to her BS. I still love her, I stand by it and I want her to take the all the tough steps to separate from me!
This is a very confusing paragraph. "I don't care what she chooses but I am going to pursue her!"
And finally nutcrac you talk about 3 months as if it is a long time. In most sitches 3 months is a blink of an eye. Good luck my friend you are going to need it. I fear you are going to create that which you fear. That is what pursuit and pressure of a WAW does.
This has been long for me as well as her. Its painful she is in a dilemma. She is going on an express train not realizing the after effects. She does not believe her own inner voice. All that she is doing is guided by her own ego and pride. But from the last conversation I realized she has so much anger in her that has subsided and she was able to let go off a lot of it and calm down, while i listened to her patiently. That is what I want to happen. So she can slowly let go off her anger towards me.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Another Update: Wife calls just a while ago and again i guess mood swing. Says she was disgusted by the letter I wrote. And felt like she just does not want to see me ever again. Had too much anger. Said she is available for my mutual friends to meet her. However, she does not expect to change her decision to divorce. I don't know how, but her mind sensed I may be planning to withdraw and she threatened to drag me to court and pull all my records for divorce. I simply listened the entire time to her conversation and didn't say a word. And she said goodbye and kept the phone. wierd!
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Well. Today i am planning to give her a surprise visit. I will let her know my decision to withdraw the dissolution consent. I will not have much discussions with her and simply say that I need time although she has no interest to reconcile. Lets see how it goes.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Please don't let her know that you are redrawing. It will come off like pursuit and apply pressure. Just redraw if thats what you want to do. She will find out on her own.
You are trying to get a reaction with your action, it wont work.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
No. I can only withdraw on the day of the final hearing in front of judge. There is no formal paperwork. The reason is I need to talk to her is because the lawyer suggested me to do so. He said if both can agree we can put it off for 2 more months. If not it will automatically get converted to a divorce process. So the best approach now is to consult her.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
She will see your decision as pursuit. The decision to hold off is yours, if she wanted to delay it she would of informed you. D is not the end of this process.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
She definitely does not want to delay. I know that. She told my mutual friends that she was expecting me to pursue her which i didn't and hence she made up her mind. My friends said that I am kinda lucky to have her as she was profusely crying in pain the entire time. She has a lot of respect towards me it seems but unfortunately no trust. She is upset and thinks if I can manage with someone else easily why she should even be bothered about me. She doesn't want to feel secondary in my eyes as she has her own pride. I know she may be trying to manipulate my friends and make herself be in good books with my friends. However, I really want to meet her and observe what she says. I will be confident as ever. I won't give in to her abuse or bullying. If she wants to call cops so be it. I will remain calm and composed. I want to see how she reacts. I know she has a lot of anger.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Good luck Nutcrac. I've said before to others that I do not understand those that come to this forum for advice, and then completely ignore the advice. I can understand slipping up, but this breach of DBing is premeditated.
You asked for sandi's input. sandi wrote 37 rules. One is BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS. Yet you hang on every word as if it is gospel. So good luck, I will continue to read your sitch but I think you are headed for losing her with your actions.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve85, I think you need to read some of sandi2's post regarding my situation. I cannot stand my ground and at the same time not listen to what she says. I have already mentioned, my situation is very different Unlike many other situations in this forum. My wife has lost out of love and trust and felt unloved. She has exaggerated quite a bit. But it is what it is. Although WAW, she needs to be heard and listened to. She cannot simply take me as her husband at this time as her heard doesnt allow. She only wants to accept me as her friend. At the same time, she has missed me too much. The No Contact in my case created more apathy rather than bridging the gap as I did not attempt to contact her. That is exactly what sandi2 mentioned in some of her posts as i didnt allow her to talk or listen due to my ego issues.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
Steve85, I think you need to read some of sandi2's post regarding my situation. I cannot stand my ground and at the same time not listen to what she says. I have already mentioned, my situation is very different Unlike many other situations in this forum. My wife has lost out of love and trust and felt unloved. She has exaggerated quite a bit. But it is what it is. Although WAW, she needs to be heard and listened to. She cannot simply take me as her husband at this time as her heard doesnt allow. She only wants to accept me as her friend. At the same time, she has missed me too much. The No Contact in my case created more apathy rather than bridging the gap as I did not attempt to contact her. That is exactly what sandi2 mentioned in some of her posts as i didnt allow her to talk or listen due to my ego issues.
I dont think anyone ever told you to IGNORE her, but you need to understand the difference between DETACHING and IGNORING.
try re reading the 37 rules and looking at them from a different view, look at it as though it was your best friend and his wife, not you and yours. Follow the advice you would unbiased give to a close friend. try to disconnect your personal feelings and look at it surgically.
I know i tell a lot of people to read my sitch, its because i failed on so many of the rules, and you can see where that got me.
I spent the better part of 2 weeks disagreeing with the advice i was getting here, and all it did was cause me to backslide into deep depression.
Its easy to feel your sitch is unique and different, when in reality they are all somewhat the same, but none are identical. Yours does not seem altogether too much different than others here.
I agree with Steve, the path you are on is a path to destruction IMHO.
Step back, breathe, take a second look and re-evaluate.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
I understand your points of view. However, like you pointed out, not all cases and stitches are identical. I do believe that my wife is somewhat manipulative. But at the same time she is truthful. Look, I have been dark and barely in contact (Never initiated a conversation with her) since March 2nd week. This DID NOT WORK in my situation. She did Miss me and had pains in her, but caused more apathy to her. She is still in a large dilemma. She simply cannot make up her mind. Why would she roam around my marital home 4 to 5 days after i vacated. She misses that home. She misses living with me. By the way, this is true that she did. So yes, she could be manipulative, but I will strongly mention my point of view without begging or pleading. I will see what she says. No Contact didn't work. What else have i got to lose?
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
NC is not some magical pill. The whole point of NC is to give the LBS space and start making meaningful changes to themselves. Your W is not the only manipulative person and actually most WW and WAWs are. Your situation is not unique - my W also told me she felt unloved etc etc.
You're trying to find a magical solution and there isn't one. Pursuit is going to make it all worse.
NC also doesn't mean ignoring. It means attending to matters of business only, in a pleasant and assertive way.
Apathy can turn into curiosity and mystery for her if you give NC enough time and make changes within yourself.
First step - stop thinking your situation is unique, it's not. Leave the situation alone and only engage for matters that need to be discussed.
No I am not trying to find any magical solution here. I will tell you this. Woman have a stubborn pride which makes them to say manipulative things. All i am saying is soon after the separation, No Contact is the first choice. That is the foundation step. Once they are left alone for a while, they will definitely miss the LBH. However, If the LBH does not connect again, the relationship will fade away as time goes by or creates negative illusions in the WAW mindset where she thinks this guy is gone for good. Mine was a SSM marraige. The only way for me to get her back is to show true affection after No contact / Going Dark. While I was living with her, she had read an article which clearly pointed out about the LBH pursuing the WAW. I think she has this in her mind. I am not saying this may work. But something that needs to be thought of.
Last edited by Cadet; 06/27/1807:59 AM. Reason: links removed
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
I personally think the advice by that site is not worth the page it's written on. For a SSM situation, you need real help. But that can't happen until both of you are invested in the MR. You can't get invested in the MR until she wants you back and that you have made serious changes.
If pursuing her brings you to a place where she wants to invest in the MR, then I am all for it. It will likely inflame already existing issues.
You cannot show true affection and have it received as such until the other person is ready. Trying to short circuit that just results in more disrespect. Sometimes you need to leave things alone and take the time and patience to ground yourself. She needs to get beyond her anger for her to even 'hear' you, forget 'listen' to you.
True affection after going NC/Dark just looks psychotic. How can you go from that to being affectionate? There are lots of steps in between that need to happen. You can't skip those.
Your game plan should be NC/Dark, GAL, and working on yourself with an IC for SSM. You need to leave her alone for her to figure herself out.
I read and watch all these videos. Your W is not your Ex. And these fellas aren't marriage experts.
Neither are we. But we have all experienced BD. We have all walked thru the fire, especially those giving you advice. Yes every Sitch is different but the WW and WAW mindset has similarities and the one thing that they both need is space and time. You are becoming impatient.
But the one thing I have learned that all LBS has to try one last thing, even me. They all say, "what do I have to lose". After they try what they thought, they come back and say. "This is what happened, what now". And its exactly what most people on this forum says what would happen.
Good luck, your sitch might have a different outcome. I hope so.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
They all say, "what do I have to lose". After they try what they thought, they come back and say. "This is what happened, what now". And its exactly what most people on this forum says what would happen.
Here is the think guys. I know you are all giving me precious advice. My wife read my hidden letter which had all my heart felt feelings. So she knows I am a pursuer. At the same time she wants to be pursued. At this time, I may be talking too much about her but I am also GALing. And I am minding my own business mostly. The one thing that sandi2 pointed earlier in my posts is that I too have some ego and pride of not handling talks with her appropriately. My wife was very fearful when i said last time that I want to cut off communications with her completely. She may have manipulated me by showing some concern again. Yes she is still angry. She may take extreme steps. But at this time, I feel i am more emotionally stronger to handle the conversations than I was 6 months ago. Lets see where this leads! If it doesn't work like you all mentioned, I will go back to my usual NC / Dark rule.
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
M(35) F(35) T(6) M(6) BD 10/25/2017 S 3/12/2018 LRT 4/3 D Served 4/30 D Signed (Me) 5/1 D filed with Court 5/21 D Final 7/6 Moving on with life and doing lot of GAL since 7/6 :-)
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