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I don't think it's a different OM... I think it's the same OM... But even if she wasn't in touch with original OM, I think she is open to a new OM, even someone she has not met yet... And she may not be thinking that concretely... But she has the wayward mind set... And maybe there was time when she and OM were not in touch, but they reconnected...

But I am curious about her work friend inviting you to use Marco Polo... Indeed, that is odd...

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Quote:
I don't think it's a different OM... I think it's the same OM...


Artista I think you are right. It is a pattern with her. Pull back from OM, "try" with me. At least three or four cycles now. This dates as far back as first BD, at which point she was still telling herself they were "just friends" with "some harmless flirting". After BD, (I think she was shocked she got caught and hadn't anticipated that), she distanced herself from OM, and things got MUCH better between us for about three weeks, like dramatic spike up, us working on things. Not as good as things had been recently, but a dramatic shift from the "no relationship at all" between us that had persisted prior to BD. Then, something happened. I still don't know what. Meet up at a party or something orchestrated by Bff and it rekindled. It showed in my W's demeanor and interactions with me before i actually suspected and found out what was going on. (Icidentally, bff, who my own friend finally came around about--his STBXW-- is a bigger piece of work than even imagined...and he and i swapped horror stories about her earlier today, she is, undoubtedly, along with the ever-pursuing OM, the biggest outside obstacle to my W's shaking the WW mindset/lifestyle.) Sometime after that, my W started feeling "in love" with him. It went from (overheard convos) like "Well, i DO kind of like you" and "even if we ever did get together, it couldn't be for a very very long time from now" to
(tearfully/frantically) "I just want to jump on you and run away with you... I can't come in there (the bar) because i know if i do I wont be able to leave". Also from mild sexual and flirty innuendos just before BD to graphic XXX-rated discussions of what they wanted to do to each other. Quite simply, i let it go on too long and she got too attached.

Quote:
But even if she wasn't in touch with original OM, I think she is open to a new OM, even someone she has not met yet..


Not so sure... See above. I think she thinks that this OM is "the one" or her "one true chance at happiness" which would be consistent with some things she said in early sessions.. "I finally did this ONE thing for me that would make ME happy, and it's a "bad thing"..."




One more thing and then im out for the night. (Typing these between stints upstairs-- W is asleep after we went out to dinner, she hardly slept at all last night, and not much this week... another hallmark of those periods when she is deeply involved with OM)

AAR, just a little snippet, maybe something, prolly nothing, but it was so out of left field and so unexpected that it really threw me a curve and surprised me. On the way home from dinner (We did have a really nice day to day, or at least i acted along like we did-- shooting range was a big success, something new and kind of edgy she clearly liked-- and dinner at one of the little local cafes we've come to like over the past months)... anyway, onthe way home from dinner, there is a lull in the conversation. I look over and she looks like she has gone to sleep, eyes closed. Then, a couple seconds and she says, kind of softly, without opening her eyes, "Whatcha thinkin'?" This is something that we used to say to each other often when we were in our head over heels phase early in our relationship just to hear the other's voice and get the convo going again when it died out. Even later in our relationship we would say it every so often, sort of a "pet phrase", but neither of us had said it to the other in, idunno, several years. It really transported me back in time for an instant.

I really think artista and others are right-- she wants both relationships. The comfort and familiarity of the MR, and the "excitement" of the A. I think some of the aspects of the new me have surprised her and gotten her interest, like today when we went shooting, but not enough to draw her away from the OM and the A. She is still wayward and rebellious, i think. (Even MC who tends to be fairly positive and hopeful has noted the rebelliousness inherent in her).

anyway, i will know more by monday. I have ways to surveillance her, and if she is back to her old pattern she wont be able to go two days without contacting OM (or him contacting her, that frigging bastard... how i would love to mash my fist into his 60-year old-looking nose.) I will likely try to find some way to monitor her when she "goes to the gym" tomorrow.

Last edited by Cadet; 03/24/18 01:36 AM. Reason: Combine posts

H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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Okay, i am pretty sure i have what i need now. Enough audio to confirm my suspicions. She's carrying on by phone, daily, with OM from her office phone, keeping her cell phone clean (because she has given me access.) She may have a burner somewhere too but that's irrelevant. I will probably tail her tomorrow to gym or leave the house before her and stake it out because i suspect there will be a meet up tomorrow based on what i am pretty sure i heard on the somewhat muffled audio. (I'll be picking up a rental SUV in the morning anyway cause my car's going to the shop, so she's unlikely to recognize it and windows will be dark.)

I need input on how to approach the break up. Maybe, and im holding out a slim hope here, she eventually gets her house in order and comes back... and maybe, just maybe i would still want her back. I just don't want to foreclose anything.

My proposed approach is this: "We need to talk, now. I'm finished doing this. I want you out of the house by the end of the week. You can start moving your stuff out immediately." (Her: "But... why?") Me: "You know why." If she persists: "I told you i would not share you, and if you went back to OM in any way we were through. So, we're through."

And i feel somewhat strongly that i want to add something like this: "I also think we should tell the children. Everything. Yes, that I was neglectful and didn't give my wife their mother the love and attention a husband should, and that you became very lonely. And that why you were so very lonely you started an inappropriate relationship with another man... Mr. OM. And now you have decided you want to continue that relationship and that our MR cant be saved."

"But, but, i have been working on us.. things have been going so much better, havent' they.?" Me: "I wont share you, i was very clear on this from the start. If you are hanging onto the relationship with OM in any way... then you are not "working on us." In fact, you are hurting us. Goodbye.

I know some say the kids shouldn't be told. My kids are 18 and 19. They are good boys. They need to know.

I had a good friend of mine today (W's bff's STBXH) counsel me to not do anything precipitous as long as his STBXW was still in town (she's moving in June to FLA), that my wife was still "with me", and that it is quite likely that with the extremely bad influence of bff out of the way, that my W might come around. I think she'll come around quicker if i give her the boot.

I want to be firm, and resolute, but i don't want to drive her away and burn every bridge.

Input please, this goes down tomorrow or Sunday (after her trip to "see bff and get waxed") at the latest.



Or do i wait til monday and talk to MC/IC first?


And if she says "Why should we tell the kids, dont you want everyone to be "happy"" I would want to say: "Happy?!?" "Because their family is breaking up? Because their mother is cheating on their father? Unhappiness is what affairs and infidelity are! They're lies, and betrayal, and hurt, and pain, and broken homes! Not this happy little fairy tale that your bff keeps spoon feeding you! "

Okay, so that's over the top and would fall on deaf ears, but it felt good to type here.

Last edited by Cadet; 03/24/18 01:36 AM. Reason: Combine posts

H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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I think the fewer words you use the stronger you will come across... In fact, when my husband confronted me the final time, when he had had enough, I found him very attractive... he told me he was done. He told me something was not right with me and I needed to get help, and he could not be there for me.

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Jim,

You’re afraid to drive her away. WTF? Jim this is game over for a very, very long time. Most likely forever! Once this is behind you, you won’t believe you put up with this BS for so long.

Short, strong “I want you out of the house”. Stop looking at this as a tactical game. She doesn’t respect you and at best sees you as a friend. You want to earn her respect, throw out her cheating a$$.

You have to forgive yourself for neglecting her in the past. When you get married no one gives a manual on how to be the perfect husband.

IMO too much detail for kids. You’re still making excuses for her A.

Lastly, Tony Robbins says you’re the biproduct of the 5 people you spend the most time with. One of your number one goals should be to make new friends!

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I agree with LH Jim. Protect yourself. Respect is absent. You have set boundaries long time ago. It is time to stand on your values.
I´m a survivor from the dark side...like Artista says: few words but action taken.

(((Jim))))


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I wish the correct times were displayed on the board.

Okay, so now you think you have solid proof that it is OM? But yesterday (or whatever.....by the board's clock/calendar) it could have been a different voice, and you were just getting bits & pieces?

I think you need to follow up the idea about posting a lookout........if you can handle it.

Quote:
I need input on how to approach the break up. Maybe, and im holding out a slim hope here, she eventually gets her house in order and comes back... and maybe, just maybe i would still want her back. I just don't want to foreclose anything.

My proposed approach is this: "We need to talk, now. I'm finished doing this. I want you out of the house by the end of the week. You can start moving your stuff out immediately." (Her: "But... why?") Me: "You know why." If she persists: "I told you i would not share you, and if you went back to OM in any way we were through. So, we're through." You tried this the first time she cheated, and she flatly refused to leave the house. So why replay old records?

And i feel somewhat strongly that i want to add something like this: "I also think we should tell the children. Everything. Yes, that I was neglectful and didn't give my wife their mother the love and attention a husband should, and that you became very lonely. And that why you were so very lonely you started an inappropriate relationship with another man... Mr. OM. And now you have decided you want to continue that relationship and that our MR cant be saved." No.....no......no! Absolutely not!

"But, but, i have been working on us.. things have been going so much better, havent' they.?" Me: "I wont share you, i was very clear on this from the start. If you are hanging onto the relationship with OM in any way... then you are not "working on us." In fact, you are hurting us. Goodbye. No! Forget this kind of stuff!

I know some say the kids shouldn't be told. My kids are 18 and 19. They are good boys. They need to know. Look back at your original thread.

I had a good friend of mine today (W's bff's STBXH) counsel me to not do anything precipitous as long as his STBXW was still in town (she's moving in June to FLA), that my wife was still "with me", and that it is quite likely that with the extremely bad influence of bff out of the way, that my W might come around. I think she'll come around quicker if i give her the boot. No!

I want to be firm, and resolute, but i don't want to drive her away and burn every bridge.

Input please, this goes down tomorrow or Sunday (after her trip to "see bff and get waxed") at the latest.

Or do i wait til monday and talk to MC/IC first?

And if she says "Why should we tell the kids, dont you want everyone to be "happy"" I would want to say: "Happy?!?" "Because their family is breaking up? Because their mother is cheating on their father? Unhappiness is what affairs and infidelity are! They're lies, and betrayal, and hurt, and pain, and broken homes! Not this happy little fairy tale that your bff keeps spoon feeding you! "
.

Stop replaying this stuff in your head. It's the same stuff as last time. You don't intend to have rerun, do you? Jim, you are beginning to panic. I think one of the guys said it best. Just tell her two words, "I'm done".

In your mind, you see yourself already telling the kids, etc. As I recall, that's when I joined your thread the first time.......when you were debating what to tell the kids.

I can't say that I agree with your friend about waiting until BFF moves away in June. Why should you deal with this crap till then? If you have proof......then you follow through on your boundary.

Quote:
I think she'll come around quicker if i give her the boot.

I want to be firm, and resolute, but i don't want to drive her away and burn every bridge.


Why are you having these conversation scenarios in your head? Your thinking is getting scr@wed up real fast. Do not tell her you need to talk!! No talking this time. You a drop a bomb of your own, and leave her to clean up the mess.

You think she'll come around quicker if you give her the boot..........but at the same time, you don't want to drive her away? Listen, you need to figure out what it is you want.........before you make a move to do anything!

If you give her the boot, you'd better make a believer out of her. You can't do any of this stuff about giving her time to make up her mind, having a talk, what to tell the kids, and such. You tell her you are done, and let her figure out the rest.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Emergency! Anybody answer who can. I followed her to gym. Om showed up about 20 minutes later. They were inside for maybe 20 to 30 minutes together. Then she came out on her own. Proof positive better than any I've ever had.

Unless someone has a different idea when I get home I'm telling her we're done I'm telling her I went by the gym if she asks to surprise her, because we had discussed me coming there to work out with her when my gym is closed next week. I know even need to worry about the other types of monitoring now. I'm an eyewitness.

I also plan on telling her I do not intend to lie to my boys they deserve to know the truth about their father and mother. Maybe not the Grim gory details. But they deserve to know why. And that I tried.


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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I also plan on telling her I do not intend to lie to my boys they deserve to know the truth about their father and mother. Maybe not the Grim gory details. But they deserve to know why. And that I tried.


Why are you so persistent in bringing up the kids, at the same time you bust her? Oh.......wait, I remember. That's why she backed off last time. She didn't wanted the boys knowing the truth.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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You know she can lie her way around it, easily. Why didn't you go inside and catch them together? Now, she'll claim she left when she realized he was there.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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