You absolutely can handle ANYTHING he says, and even that. You know why? Because we learn here and by reading others' stories that the wayward will say anything and everything! We learn here to believe none of what they say and half of what they do. So you believe none of it. His actions thus far are also demonstrating that he feels some guilt and cares for you.
In my sitch, my H said ALL THE THINGS. He told me he wanted D more than once. He never filed, did the paperwork, or followed up with the one free consultation. I am not even sure he went, and I think OW set it up. Basically he said a lot of things to justify his A and walking out on his family, but he didn't actually take action in ending our M or family.
The mistake I made was showing him all my cards. I was emotional, angry, lashed out, and broke the rules. I didn't give him a reason to even want to come back. In fact I gave him many reasons to run further because I lashed out, cried, and then stone walled him. He still did come back eventually. I tend to think that if they are going to come back, they will even if you mess up. Unfortunately it could take a long time and his A may need to die a natural death. Most As die anyhow because they are Rs based on deceit and selfishness. OW in my sitch went to lengths to groom my H and his ego, and she also tried to convince him I was crazy and he deserves better. My problem was that I also showed them my weaknesses, when I should have simply stayed away and only showed my best self (that is hard to do when you are hurt and betrayed tho).
Your best bet is to follow Sandi's rules and to read up on the validation cheat sheet. Go into this assuming the worst and be prepared for the worst. You can still respond the same way. Listen, listen, listen, and say very little. Don't show him your cards. Let him stew in his on BS that he will try and serve you. When you remain graceful and strong, you dilute their reasoning for leaving and they know it!
He could very well say, "I am 100% done, I want D, I am never looking back, and met the woman of my dreams, I will marry her the day after our D is final, and then we are moving across the world with her millions of dollars, yada yada yada." See where I am going? It's all the same. He is living a pipe dream and trying to justify his lies and cheating. Honestly he has been displaying very typical wayward behavior form the beginning. Sleeping in the trailer, then trying to have S-x and reconnect with you, and then moodiness, and then being nice and wanting to help you, and all his yo-yo-ing around. He reminds me of my H. He is an absolute mess right now! My H showed me someone that had made up his mind and now years later admits he had NO IDEA WHAT he was doing and felt guilty all the time.
So you prepare yourself that he could and will say anything and everything. You believe none of it and you do not give him power to hurt you with his words. You are going to take the higher road. Remain calm, listen and don't say much of anything, and then you can simply validate his feelings. You got this!
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Your best bet is to follow Sandi's rules and to read up on the validation cheat sheet. Go into this assuming the worst and be prepared for the worst. You can still respond the same way. Listen, listen, listen, and say very little. Don't show him your cards. Let him stew in his on BS that he will try and serve you. When you remain graceful and strong, you dilute their reasoning for leaving and they know it!
Thank you so much Blu. I value your input greatly. My concern with just listening and saying very little, one of his complaints has been that I don't communicate my feelings enough. Won't this appear as "more of the same"?
I think maybe I can even handle if he says he's filing for D, but he usually follows through with what he says. He is also a person that holds a grudge, and has no patience. My biggest concern is him telling me he won't pay to me what he said he would. In California I can request alimony in D, and with 2 minors at home still, and possibly able to get lifetime child support for special needs s21; all of which can be garnished from his paycheck.
Holy cow this is really got my mind spinning.
Me-44,H-44 S21,S19,S17,D13 M-22,T-29 (off and on prior to M) BD:12-20-17 (H said he had things to work out in his head) H moved out:3-4-18
meg24, he is having an A with OW... at this point, you can drop the rope and work toward fully detaching... this is where GAL would benefit you... had you been doing that, you might have been able to say, "gee, tonight doesn't work for me... i have plans..."
i would not care about "more of the same," at this point... no matter what he says, if it is concerning your M, he needs to give you your space to process it... don't feel as though you need to automatically share your feelings... you may not even know what your feelings are...
meg24, you are still placing him above yourself... you must put you and your sons first... i keep imagining him with OW on his motorcycle in front of OW's fiance while you are at home with his/your sons... he is living an entire life that you really know nothing about... a life that does not include you nor your sons...
in any case, i am with BluWave... no matter what he brings to you tonight, you will be able to handle it... you were a champ when your sons were "who knows where?" you are resourceful, thoughtful and determined... remember to put yourself above him...
Sooooo, tonight was, hmmm, interesting. H was at the house doing laundry when I got home. He made a point to text me in the afternoon that he was at "my" house doing laundry (even though I already knew that was his plan). When I got home I said hi, he had the usual scowl on his face. I did try to make conversation with him (as you would a house guest), about random things, about my post-up appointments coming up. He didn't really try to do too much conversing back.
While I was cooking he came into the kitchen and said he doesn't know why he comes over because the kids don't make a point to talk to him (they're teenagers, always in their rooms unless there's food). As everyone was getting their plates together s21 was talking to him (the rest of us already at the table) asking if he wants to come home, I heard H's answer above the noise, "nope". After everyone finished we all stayed sitting at the table talking, as we normally do, except H, who got up without saying a word and went to living room. He didn't even try to join conversation (this is key point for what comes up).
I then heard s21 start talking about Fathers Day, H said "we're not celebrating Fathers Day this year". H then says to me a few minutes later that he wants to talk to everyone together before he leaves (me and the kids. I say kids, but - not including s21, they're 19, 17 and 13).
We all sit down and H says let him talk, don't interrupt or say anything. He then proceeds to lay into each of the kids individually about how we all have each other right now, but he doesn't have anyone (he does admit that was his choice, a few times), and he's still their father. He goes on about him being the a--hole right now, but was he the a--hole in the past when he would work to make sure they all had what they wanted (he did list specifics for each one). He said they have made no effort to contact him to see how he's doing, even though he has reached out to them about certain things (not to see how they're doing), for his benefit. He just kept listing all the monetary things he has done for them since they were born. Then he said he didn't want them to say anything to him, he was leaving, think about all that all evening.
After he left, wow, emotions just flowed. I told the kids that he is lashing out to justify his own behavior, s19 and s17 agreed, d13 was just crying. She has never had a bad relationship with H, he had no right to do that to her. He had no right to do that to both boys either. The kids and I talked a lot after he left. I just let them talk. They all pretty much said what I've thought for years, H never was there for them emotionally. Yes, he made sure they had whatever they wanted, but emotionally, he never tried to connect with them. Even D13 agreed.
The boys also told me about how friends of ours are amazed at what's going on, they never would have guess any of this would happen, how H always talked about me (he put me on a pedestal). Even the boys said H was like that until right before Christmas, when he started hanging out with his friend from childhood, whom he's renting studio apartment from now.
I am just amazed that he turned on them like that. He has not tried checking on the kids at all to see how they're doing in all this, he only talks to them when he wants them to do something for him. He is the adult, the father, he should be the one reaching out to them first, not the kids to him.
Me-44,H-44 S21,S19,S17,D13 M-22,T-29 (off and on prior to M) BD:12-20-17 (H said he had things to work out in his head) H moved out:3-4-18
Meg - I won't excuse your H for involving your kids like that but I will tell you... do NOT invalidate his feelings. Right OR Wrong... Correct... OR Not... your H is feeling unappreciated. That is what he voiced over and over again last night.
If you want to save your M you need to validate those feelings.
My H has his own tough road with his kids and mine. His relationship with all of them is ten thousand times better than it has ever been during our M, but I had to learn to validate and I had to get the kids to stop taking things for granted. My H works crazy long hours and makes lot of $ so our kids have nice things. He just wanted to feel appreciated.
From your viewpoint it looks like H is talking crazy talk. But, you need to take a step back and look at it from your H's... he is feeling unappreciated... he is feeling trapped and he doesn't have much respect for you at the moment.
"I'm sorry that you feel that we have taking you for granted. We really appreciate X, Y and Z. I didn't realize I wasn't taking the time or showing you in a way you felt it was important to me about everything you have done for me and the kids."
My M has taking a 180 and we are back on track - mostly because I stopped having the need to be RIGHT all the time. My H feels appreciated and his interactions with me and the kids are so wonderful right now.
If you no longer want your M then don't take his balonga - but if you think you do you need to start validating those feelings.
You will be surprised when you do --- validate. H will take a step back and most likely apologize to you and your kids about his behavior down the road a bit. My H did and does everyday now.
Your situation mirrors mine so closely... this is what works.
FFS, these are teenagers, it's their job to be so.
And being a father isn't about money, it's what you do as parent. You provide for your family's needs. Your WH is expecting to be appreciated for doing his job?
Regretfully he sounds entitled and holding his family hostage to that rubbish. Then he lambasted them to satisfy his own resentment? Hmmmmmm, that is going to make them appreciate him.
There is much more to being a dad than buying stuff, there is proper communication and this sure isn't it. And if working long hours is just to buy more stuff in expectation of being appreciated. Then I might suggest those are hours wasted, instead go fishing, play a game, hike (whatever) is appropriate with your teens instead. I get it stuff is nice but better is teen time.
My thoughts
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I agree that involving the teenagers wasn't a class move BUT I think V you are not looking at it from H perspective.
Many people work long hard hours to provide many extras for their family - is it right? That depends on you.
Does my teenage son take it for granted that my H works long hours so we can have 3 vehicles and my son is able to drive to school everyday and to his activities? YES. Do I need to remind him from time to time what a luxury that is? YES. Do I need to point out that he needs to be appreciative of his step dad for this privilege? YES. Could we as a family get by with only 2 vehicles? YES.
I will tell you that my H at BD felt he was only seen a paycheck to me and my son. Is that how I felt??? NOPE. But, those were his feelings. Was it my H's choice to work ungodly long hours weeks at a time without a day off so we all have smart phones and the biggest cable package - YES. Was he wrong to blame me? Of course he was, but if I made it all about being right my M would be heading for divorce.
I just chose to validate my husbands feelings. Those are indeed HIS feelings. Right or wrong. Once my H saw I could see things from his perspective it really opened him up to mine. Only then could we proceed to fix our M. Once I made sure my H felt appreciated for all the things that V thinks he should do automatically as an H and Dad, my H took ownership of his side of the problems.
He is a stellar dad again and an amazing H. But, if I held on to the fact that he was wrong about his feelings or I was right and that he was just doing his Dad job he would have continued to be miserable and we would have gotten no where.
H just wants to be heard.
Meg - I know and get it how painful last nights conversation was. And in your pain you cannot see his pain. Right or wrong your H is feeling unappreciated. The conversation was a true blow to your ego because you feel he has no right to feel that way. Do you want to be right or do you want a M on the path to healing?
Thank you for your input. I did try to validate his feelings last night. H has a right to his feelings, I do get how he feels that way. I almost feel that it was H's intention to have that talk with the kids all along. He started the whole evening in a bad frame of mind. Right now he is lashing out at everyone, to justify his behavior. But for him to attack the kids in that way, when all they have ever asked for is his TIME, not things. That is not right. They are so broken after that, I don't know how those relationships will be going forward.
I am getting better at validating H, and just listening, not making anything about me.
My ego is still fine, he has every right to every feeling he has. We all do. But now I get to clean up the mess he made with the kids. Just as I have done for years, after various interactions with them. But last night was the first time d13 has ever experienced anything negative with H. She worshipped him. He completely broke her heart last night.
On the flip side, I was able to see the 3 of the kids interact with each other last night in a way they never have before. They leaned on each other, supported each other.
Regardless, I don't feel that the sitch is any different. H is in a spot that I can't even begin to understand.
Me-44,H-44 S21,S19,S17,D13 M-22,T-29 (off and on prior to M) BD:12-20-17 (H said he had things to work out in his head) H moved out:3-4-18
I would not validate what your H pulled last night. I am sorry, but it's all gaslighting. You cannot do anything for him. He has told you that he will find fault in everything you do right now. He is having an A... He is trying to justify his very poor and cruel behavior... I would put boundaries as far as his visits to the house go. The way he treats you and his kids in their home is unacceptable...
