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So it's a repeating pattern?

Am I understanding he keeps repeating the pattern?

And some POW respond to his interest and others don't?

Sounds to me like he has a sweet cycle going in this, and I agree that you need a great boundary on it.

So I am not surprised you have reached the conclusion you have, honey that is so so tough.

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Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
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The first and only PA that I’m aware of happened 11-12 years ago. We were in a serious relationship at the time, and it took a lot to overcome the infidelity and lies. We weren’t living together, so space was a lot easier.

This summer/fall is the first time I’ve seen a repeat in his behaviour, which is what scared me and promoted me to question his intentions.

Unfortunately I’m weak and after 3 days out of the house, we spoke, he agreed once again to work on things and not do certain things. He came back home, and now he’s changed what was discussed 3 days ago. He’s changed the words of what he said he would do ie: “I’m going to quit my job on Monday if that’s what it takes” to “I’m looking for a new job”, or “I won’t have anymore social interactions with the OW” to “I won’t have any non work related social interactions with her”.

I don’t know how to deal with this anymore. He does something wrong and then he’s able to manipulate himself and me in a false sense of security so he can do it again.

I’ve asked him now that he’s completely broken my trust, how can we rebuild it? And he says he doesn’t know.... and he’s not trying anything either. Instead now when I question every little thing he’s getting mad.

He told my sister he wants his freedom to do what he wants and his wife. But how when what he wants to do disrespects his wife?

If anyone has any recommendations on how to deal with this.... it would be great. Just know that I’m at the end of my line here, and if he moves out, I’m moving on.

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Originally Posted By: SarahW
The first and only PA that I’m aware of happened 11-12 years ago. We were in a serious relationship at the time, and it took a lot to overcome the infidelity and lies. We weren’t living together, so space was a lot easier.

This summer/fall is the first time I’ve seen a repeat in his behaviour, which is what scared me and promoted me to question his intentions.

Unfortunately I’m weak
and after 3 days out of the house, we spoke, he agreed once again to work on things and not do certain things. He came back home, and now he’s changed what was discussed 3 days ago. He’s changed the words of what he said he would do ie: “I’m going to quit my job on Monday if that’s what it takes” to “I’m looking for a new job”, or “I won’t have anymore social interactions with the OW” to “I won’t have any non work related social interactions with her”.

I don’t know how to deal with this anymore.


Oh Sarah, sometimes we do "know", but we resist so hard b/c we want so badly to be wrong. We keep hoping that our spouses will become what he is not becoming or we stay based on his "potential" as a spouse. Your h is sending you clear signals. Yes, clear.

Because his actions say he wants out AND his words are inconsistent too, so you can't even try to hold onto them.

Believe me, I really truly do know how painful this can get. I just want to save you some time and dignity.

IF, and I do mean IF, there's a chance for your h to really WAKE UP and choose you and your family, it won't be by continuing to TRY and do what your thread title says "get him to see what he's doing".

He knows what he is doing and he's willing to take the chance on --

1) you bluffing

AND OR

2) losing you.

You have to hope that by him believing he's losing you for real, that he will feel the loss. But so far he just feels your pull. And you are enmeshed in a constant game of riddles and guessing and playing the part of the marriage police. It's soul sucking.


He does something wrong and then he’s able to manipulate himself and me in a false sense of security so he can do it again.

Ah, but you are educable. You learn and you grow STRONGER and you change and evolve.



I’ve asked him now that he’s completely broken my trust, how can we rebuild it? And he says he doesn’t know.... and he’s not trying anything either.

THIS^^^^ is the answer. BELIEVE HIM HERE^^^^^.



Instead now when I question every little thing he’s getting mad.

Oh that's nice. How DARE YOU??? Look up narcissist sometime and see how much of it fits. No, he does not have to be a full on total narcissist!

But the behavior where he shrugs off a marriage and changes what he says, and then gets mad at YOU for daring to ask him to choose the marriage to which he made vows, is so over the line it'll make you crazy unless you step back and see the reality.

He is dangerously entitled.

He told my sister he wants his freedom to do what he wants and his wife. But how when what he wants to do disrespects his wife?


To him, these^^ are totally compatible. He wants his cake & to eat it too. CAKE EATING ALERT!

DING DING!!
Why should a choice of his cost HIM anything?

This is malignant entitlement b/c it only cost OTHERS (dearly) and he knows it and he does it anyhow. Sure, he cares about you. But you know who he cares most about??

HIM. He's made a statement that most women (and you, once upon a time) would laugh off as you pack his things to give him the boot. You have to wonder if he's testing your remaining self respect. The statement to YOUR SISTER is so disrespectful it's like he's daring you to set a boundary.

Knowing he's not putting you first OR even equal to himself OR his other "interests",

--it will feel like a gut punch every day UNTIL you realize this is about HIM, and not about you. You are enough. He's not capable of making himself happy like an adult who chooses chocolate ice cream but really wants another flavor TOO...and bemoans the loss of the strawberry ice cream he did not order...

All you can do now is help him feel the loss and the cost of his choices. Not with meanness but indifference, even if you have to fake it, which you will.

Do not argue or advocate for yourself or the family or marriage. He knows the deal. Don't play the game anymore of pursuing him. Do NOT PURSUE HIM>

Run away, and if he catches up with you and tries to win you back, THEN we can help you cross that bridge.

Meanwhile, see a good attorney to get info. You don't have to file but Knowledge is power.

You really want this guy? Then You have to run from him - b/c he likes the chase.

You don't want this guy b/c he's horrible to you? Then You have to run from him to Get A Life.

Either way, your course of action is the same. Which is clarity! I truly believe this.



If anyone has any recommendations on how to deal with this.... it would be great. Just know that I’m at the end of my line here, and if he moves out, I’m moving on.




He may not feel like moving out. It's expensive. And he may like parts of being married, so if he can do it part time, why wouldn't he? And if he wants to be single but not move out, why wouldn't he do that? Seriously, what price would HE pay by crossing your boundaries again and again? He can say he "meant" that he would not bring OW home...

or change his mind every week, throw you a bone and enjoy a movie together and ML and then you'll think "HE is working on us. He's trying!" Only to be moody and distant the next day.

Don't pressure his mood shifts = confusion, they are sometimes just a game they play to keep both parties "happy" and HIM off the hook of any consequences.

YOU may be confused by his behavior b/c you are still projecting your values onto him. I did this very thing for a long long time.

In YOUR mind, the behavior is so bad for the marriage, and would hurt your spouse's self esteem, YOU would never do this to him, and thus, you are confused.

Surely he must be confused...he must be having a MLC. He must be in a "fog".

OR...what? Or this is who he is. He does NOT share your values. He does not have your moral compass.

I do not mean to project my situation onto yours. But there are some similar veins around here and it's mostly about when your spouse says something really damaging or admits to not being committed.

I wish we'd all LISTEN TO THEM AND BELIEVE THEM b/c that's the time they really are serious.

Now & then step back and ask yourself what you'd say to a girlfriend in your shoes.

Hang in there, see a lawyer and know your rights. Most of the time the WAS, especially men, do a lot of financial planning before we know what hit us.

Mine took ALL of the joint marital funds, and we'd been married 35 years, and made love the morning he went "on a trip" in Oct 2016...

I have not seen him since. Neither have our children. I hear he's getting married to OW...and I'm still waiting for my lump sum payment. Borrowing money to get by. Learn from my experience, please.

((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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Sarah, I read some similar behaviors in both of our H's. Mine is very manipulative, very self-indulgent, and tries to make me feel as if I'm completely at fault (then 5 minutes later says that he's the a&!hole for doing this to his family), and tries to project his behavior on to me.

I must say that life at home is much quieter and calmer since he moved out, and I am ablr to step back and see the whole picture more clearly.

I know you say if your H moves out that you're moving on. But ask yourself if that's what you're really ready for. I'm not ready to move on, but I am ready to move forward.

I applaud your ability to set boundaries. I didn't seem to be able to when H was home. Good luck, stay strong.


Me-44,H-44
S21,S19,S17,D13
M-22,T-29 (off and on prior to M)
BD:12-20-17 (H said he had things to work out in his head)
H moved out:3-4-18
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Originally Posted By: SarahW

I can definitely see he is purposefully trying to be stubborn. He doesn't want to listen to what I have to say, and tries to do the opposite of what I was saying I wanted. I feel like he's trying to assert his ground, but I'm not going to let that happen if it causes me stress and negatively affects our marriage. I think this definitely has to do with his entitlement and thinking he should be making the calls.



this behavior is not the behavior of a remorseful spouse... the attitude that your H is displaying here is going to be nothing but trouble for you... you will not be able to reason with him... he does not care... you are not his priority... he has no self-awareness... he should be embarrassed that he has to make things up in order to hang out with the "in-crowd" at work... if i were that OW, after he sent an email to HR about my being inappropriate, i would go to HR and tell them that i spoke with his wife because she texted me, and i would tell them what his wife said, and everything he is doing just to be near me...

you know what you need to do... you need to kick his disrespectful a$$ out and move FOWARD with your life... you set boundaries... now you need to follow through, because if you don't, as you know--those boundaries are useless and may as well be open borders for him to do as he pleases... that he said he wants to be free to do what he wants and have his wife is an insult to your marriage... he cannot have both... at this point, because you cannot trust him, you need to have the guts to make his choice for him: BE FREE... but BE FREE with ME... and then you need to GAL--BIG TIME...

once you are a part, you can take your time to decide what you want to do...

mis dos centavos...

--artista

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Sarah, after 25yearsmlc whole post above, I swear she is talking about my H. Every word she says sounds like my sitch, other than the WAH doing financial planning. My H is horrible with money. Which is exactly why I'm working on contingency plan to replace his payments to me, as I don't know how long they'll last.

My H is classic basic narcissist, and I refused to see it for 22 years. As I told my brother last night, I can see pieces of him right now over the last 20 years, but now it's 100 times more extreme. I often wonder if there's something wrong in the brains of people that do this sort of thing to those they say they love. Do they simply lack self-disciplin and will power, or is it deeper, more chemical?

Be careful. Tread lightly. As artista says above, move FORWARD, once you are apart you can take you time to decide what you want to do.


Me-44,H-44
S21,S19,S17,D13
M-22,T-29 (off and on prior to M)
BD:12-20-17 (H said he had things to work out in his head)
H moved out:3-4-18
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Sorry it's been such a long time. And thank you 25yearsmlc, meg24 and artista for your responses and words of wisdom. I read them immediately, but I've just been delaying a reply to see how things are going.

I feel like I'm almost in a twilight zone. One day everything seems fine, and the next it's like a light switch has been changed.

Since my last post he's seemingly kept up his changed terms.. however he shows no effort for finding another job. I haven't heard or seen any messages from the OW or any issues.. But I'm not sure if thats because he's gotten smarter about how he's doing things, or if he really is stepping back.

He has shown a lot more effort in spending time with me, during work as well. We also had a nice quick 4 day vacation to the Caribbean.

My anxiety is still there.. but I think that as long as I question his intentions it will still be there.

For the days where I say it's like a light switch... While things are going well, he'll say something random to upset me. On vacation he brought up girls he use to like.. Ok fine. I said it bothered me that he was thinking about stuff like that on vacation with me and I didn't want to talk about that. The next day he brought up girls he currently thought were cute....... :| He mentioned one at work that I had never heard about before (luckily not the OW). So I got upset and said that I don't know why he's intentionally trying to hurt me. He apologized.

This past week, I asked him when he thought would be a good time to review progress with our situation (ie: him not looking for a new job even though he said he would). Of course he got mad and after some bickering agreed to apply to 5 jobs that week. We agreed to review our efforts at the end of the month.

One minute he acts like he's putting in a lot of effort, the next he acts like he shouldn't have to put in effort.

This past Friday he was a bit distant on the way to work, said he wouldn't meet up today with me since he had seen me so much during the week already. Ok.. weird thing to say first thing since our plans to meet are never really made first thing. He mentioned about a 9am meeting, but wouldn't say who it was with. Obviously I find out it was with the OW and another employee, and that he went for coffee with someone else later. On the way home I said he was acting all weird this morning, he said he wasn't, and I said he must have been in a rush for a very important meeting with the OW, especially since during her meeting she had time to change her chat profile picture. He got defensive and said she wasn't on her phone, I said the time said 9:07am, right at the start of his meeting. He blew up and started freaking out in the car, saying I need to move on or move on (meaning end the relationship). I asked how am i suppose to trust him when he's getting all defensive about this (yes, I know I pushed his buttons, but I didn't push that hard for such a reaction). We fought, he said I ruined all the effort that was made over the last 2 weeks, and things were tense that night into Saturday AM. I tried to explain to him my POV about him actively avoiding talking about things that happen with the OW and that his defensive overreaction when I say something he doesn't like, but he was in such a mood that it didn't matter what I said. If I was blaming him for his reaction, than he didn't want to listen. He said me talking about everything makes him not want to try. After some space, I sent him a message that basically said if he wants me to work on my emotions with his work and the OW, then he needs to work on his emotions about our marriage and the effort required to make it work.

The light switch changed back, and suddenly he wasn't as angry and being nice.

Last night, I went down to see if he was coming to bed at 10pm, and he minimizes a computer screen and is sitting there with a skype chat open... with the OW highlighted. I asked what was going on. He said nothing, showed me that it said he hadn't been online in 2 days that it was just a coincidence where the mouse landed, and showed me some work emails about him going back and forth with her over the last 3 hours about something for her to do at work. The last email is her telling him about her dance schedule for the week and when she can work late. Obviously i get upset. He says he doesn't know why she would say that, he had only told her what he work he wanted her to do, that he didn't respond to her comment on her dance etc etc. I told him how I couldn't trust him at work, and clearly couldn't trust her, because she specifically said she never talks to him about her dance and personal life, yet here she was trying to... He said he wasn't going to play into it. I guess we'll see if he ends up working late this week.

Ugh, I know I can't control what happens with them. And I know no matter what I say, if he wants something to happen, something will happen. It just [censored] being stuck in limbo and not knowing what to trust.

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Sarah,

I am sorry this is happening. You seem to be trapped in a viscous cycle. Here is the thing, you cannot change the course of things, but you can jump out of this trap at any time. This is taking up a lot of mental energy and causing you stress. It's not okay. What he is doing is not okay. Listen to your your instincts about her and if he's being honest. They are right.

Sometimes sitches like yours are a more complicated because they are not obvious or black and white. He didn't up and leave, he doens't seem to be having an active A with her, and he isn't threatening D. That doesn't mean he is being a good H and giving you what this M needs. When someone is all in, they listen and deeply care for their S and they will do whatever it takes to mend it. Including cut off all contact with a coworker, change jobs, and provide full transparency. I don't see him doing that. I don't see him doing much of anything.

I don't know if you read my sitch, or if I even shared much of this, but my H had a female coworker who was into him for many years. This started before we had any M troubles. She tried very hard to get his attention, gain his sympathy by telling him her problems, and would try and text him and befriend him outside of work. He didn't pay much attention to her. He also didn't draw firm boundaries with her and so we argued about that. When we started having M problems and split up for that 10 months, well she came on strong! In fact, he and OW argued about her too. lol. This lady started sending him sexy pics and tried to kiss him at work. He couldn't even tell his OW because she was jealous and insecure of their R (of course she was, she was just an A). So that was a huge lighbulb moment for him. What I had been saying (his W) for all those years was right about this coworker. Now he is deeply ashamed he didn't shut her down in those early years.

I don't know if your H is as aware as he says he is or is somewhat oblivious to how inappropriate his Rs are with women. He lacks boundaries and overall respect for you and the M. The thing is, I am not sure you can convince him. I tried for many years and my H did not get it! He thought he was just a nice guy, kinda felt sorry for this lady, and it did make his ego feel good.

No matter what your H is thinking/doing, I think your actions are the same. You are going to drive yourself crazy if you keep watching him, arguing, and going in theses circles. It's not working either.

I just wrote a long post to Meg and I think it applies to you to. Even if he is not having an A, you can still save yourself. You also send the message that you are done playing games. Let him be, start to detach, and don't worry about his response. You don't need this cr-p.


Blu

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2784476&page=2


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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I call this the wobble board strategy.

Never let the LBS feel secure, keep the wobble board wobbling. Compare the LBS with other women. Keeps her on her toes on that wobble board. Keeps her guessing. Unsettle her, interferes with sleep and wellbeing, but hey its fun to watch someone wobble. And it drives them crazy staying up right. They must stay on that wobble board to be in an R with WH.

Be intermittently nice then wobble that board. Drive her crazy with guessing when the next wobble is coming.

Someone who respects you won't treat you this way. Forget love which is a choice, think respect. He puts himself up there and you on a wobble board he can wobble at any time.

You aren't in a beauty parade, you are his W. You shouldn't be compared with random women in any way. It's up to him to handle come ons from skanks who want to take their knickers off. At work that's sexual harassment anyway. But it's nice for him to have an extra to wobble that board.

Those are my thoughts.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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You are getting some great responses and very solid advise.

How many of us on here look back once our spouses have left and say "wow. The signs were all there. Why the hell did I put up with that. Why wasnt I the one to leave?"

Here's the thing. Hera was always my least favorite of the Greek goddesses. She seemed like such an unpleasant nag. Always chasing and trying to catch her husband cheating. I assumed she wasn't as beautiful or valuable or loveable as the others. Not very fair of me. Her husband was the problem.

I would not want to be her though. I want to be the one that is desired and loved and cherished. Not the one that is resentful and filled with anger and panic and jealousy. But that's kust not possible in some relationships. No matter how much you try to rationalize, appeal to, get angry at, or threaten.

Personally, i would rather be alone then chasing someone that has eyes for others because of who it turns you into. That nagging Hera.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
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