Still treading water

[sjohns6]

Time for a new thread. Here's my old one...

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2741137#Post2741137

Gordie, it is so good to hear from you. Just seeing that you replied lifted my spirits a little. I need to get better at offering advice to others instead of just reading through everyone's posts.

You summed it up pretty well. She says she is working on being better, but she does not seem to want to be married. Truth is, I'm not OK with it. I am not going to be pushed out due to her unhappiness, but she doesn't want to leave the house and kids...so I think out of obligation she tries to "work" on things. Her line of thinking does not lead her to actually work on the marriage, I think she is just trying not to make things worse...and for her that is working on things.

I don't think I really know what my boundaries are until she crosses them. Then it tuns in to an argument where I tell her where I stand. She seems receptive to it to a degree. When she went out all day without telling me and I then got in to it with her about it, over the following days she started telling me when she was going somewhere and asking if it was ok when she wanted to go out with a friend on an off night.

Days like today are hard because although I know that she isn't better and probably a long way off from it, I do see her trying to take me in to consideration, she just isn't very good at it right now. But in that sense, being friendly with eachother is an ok place to be while she struggles to figure herself out. Then today I find out that she still doesn't trust ME. I guess her trust in me doesn't make much of a difference at this point, but its like a slap in the face. I'm not the one who deserves mistrust...but I guess I don't deserve any of it so maybe a moot point.

I'll get through today just like I get through every day...but I'm still struggling to find purchase in this thing. The good ting is that throughout the previous year, there have been MANY days that I lived moment to moment trying to make it through. Now, I have bad days, but I am finding a bit of happiness here and there. Thank you for helping me get there...

[Gordie]

S,

I get it. She doesn’t want to leave. You don’t want to leave. You are in a stalemate. Neither married nor divorced. So I’m going to pass on the sage advice given to me and I’m no expert and am still figuring it out:

1. Take all focus off of her. Focus on yourself and your kid. How? If you don’t want to move out (I understand), you may want to take a month and spend almost no time with her. This is not punishment. This is to refocus on you and you can’t do that when you are constantly watching and reacting to her. Schedule your days and get busy. Busy at work, with activities and when you are at home, make sure you are busy there too. No just hanging out at home. If you are with your kid, do things outside the house. You will be too busy enjoying life to worry about her comings and goings or where she is or with whom. In your month of re focus, include an overnight trip by yourself. If you don’t have money, just sleep on a friend’s couch. Go to your fight class every day! You will enjoy your time there, make new friends, and get into the best shape of your life (and yes, the ladies will notice). But new clothes to show off your new physique.

2. And when you do bump into her? You can be friendly, but you are focused on you right now. Don’t ask her about her life. Don’t ask her about her day. Don’t ask her what she’s been doing or how she’s been feeling or worst of all, your relationship. You are taking all the pressure off of her. You are letting her go. You can’t control her. And if she decides to go sleep with every Tom, Dick and Harry? That’s up to her and then you can decide what you want to do. You feel like you are weak and powerless, but you do have power over you and what you want to do with your life. She doesn’t control that.

3. But here’s what may happen. She may get curious about who is this ripped stud who has a great life and no interest in me? She may start following you around or texting in the middle of the day. Why are you ignoring me? Say, I’m just focused on me right now. I realized I needed to work on myself. I’m learning new things about me. I’m enjoying life.

[sjohns6]

Gordie,
Thank you for that. I read your reply and thought about it all day after reading it. The next day I started working on doing that. Then, something unexpected happened. It wasn’t long enough for that to be related to what happened, but I really need some advice on how to handle my situation. Here it goes...

Last Friday evening after getting off work and returning home, W and D decided that D would make dinner. She wanted to make fancy sandwiches and we were almost out of bread, so I offered to go get some from the store for her (D). I asked if she wanted to go with me, which she declined (she never wants to but I always ask). My W then said, I’ll go with you. This alone seemed weird. She has not wanted to do anything with just me and her in a long time (even just the store). I said OK and we headed out. We decided to go to the nice grocery store since it had a bar and we could grab a drink. On the way, she asked if I wanted to talk. I of course said OK.

She then proceeded to tell me that she had been talking with a coworker who had just gotten married and they were telling her how happy they were with their life, dog, etc and it got her to thinking. Said she had been looking at things the wrong way and realized that she hadn’t been very nice to me and had been treating me very poorly. Said she really loved me and really wanted to work things out. (Summarizing) We talked for a while in the car and it was a really good conversation. We have not had a talk like that since this whole thing started. I won’t go in to everything that was said, but I could tell I was talking to HER, not her MLC who is all I spoken to in over a year.

We went in to the store, got a drink, and did our shopping. It was nice. Then we went home and had a pleasant evening. We both fell asleep on the couch watching TV, and I got up and went to bed in the middle of the night. She woke up shortly after and came to bed too...and snuggled up next to me. She has not done that since MLC started almost a year and a half ago. After a while of just laying there, she then initiated sex. It was nice.

The next day we both had separate kid duty to attend to, but the day went well. Then Sunday morning she had to get up very early and fly to DC for work...where she still is now till the weekend.

The problem now is how I am feeling about things. From others experiences I have read about, I knew this conversation might come eventually, and I hoped for it. Even now I know that just because we had that conversation, that doesn’t mean everything is all better now. It is just a start, hopefully in the right direction. I admit that I hoped that I would feel better about it than I do. Other than the day we had the conversation, I don’t feel much different. I mean maybe I don’t feel as anxious as I did, but I still feel a little uneasy. My guard is still up, as I’m sure it probably should be. She has been out of town and I’m juggling kids so we haven’t talked much this week at all. I find myself wondering if things are going to go back to MLC land when she gets back. It’s hard for me to accept that she MIGHT have turned a corner. You don’t feel one way for a year and a half and then change over night.

So, now I am trying to figure out how I really feel about things and how I should act towards her. I guess that may depend on how she acts when she gets back, but I guess I am just confused over my own feelings. I thought I would be happier after having a conversation like that...or rather I thought the happiness I felt over it would last longer than a day.

Any 2x4’s or advice is welcome.

[Gordie]

Wow. That was unexpected. And your feelings that you’re not more excited? I get that. I feel the same. We’re hurt and have been whipsawed. And you are guarded and cautious, as you should be. Be patient. See how things play out.

Actions speak louder than words. Have her actions changed? Are these changes for real? And long lasting? At this stage, it’s way too early to tell.

And how should you act now? I think the advice I am getting is you’ve got to keep focusing on you. I suspect you are going to start thinking and feeling some new things. Process those, don’t stuff them.

And with respect to her, keep expectations low and go very, very slowly. Be patient. If she can change her mind this quickly in one direction, she can do the opposite as well.

[kml]

Dog training 101 - reward the good behaviors, ignore the bad ones.

Even though you obviously will feel guarded and skeptical - I certainly would - you still want to reward the good behaviors.

It's not easy, keeping your guard up without letting it appear to be up.

My guess is listening to her coworker reminded her what it was like in the early days of your marriage. Maybe she was just finally ready.

OR - maybe she's concocted a plan to kill you in your sleep and wants to throw you off her tracks. (Just kidding.)

Even if she was sincere (and she probably was) she may not be fully baked yet and may come back from her business trip in a completely different frame of mind, so be prepared for anything.

[sjohns6]

Thanks Gordie. I think you are right about all of that.

Its hard to say regarding her actions. She went out of town right after so there haven't been many actions to see. She isn't calling and texting me lovey stuff while out of town, but I don't really expect that. I mean if she is starting to surface a little out of the fog (even if only a little), then I imagine she is going to be depressed as the realization of everything begins to hit her. I imagine that will cause her to backstep a little. All that to say that I probably DO need to take it slow and have low expectations. You are right, if she can change her mind in a day then it can go the other way too. I guess the good of it is that SHE is still in there somewhere, even if not coming out for good yet.

I think I need to continue focusing on myself while still being accepting of her willingness to change (leave the light on kind of thing).

I also think you are right about beginning to feel new things and not to stuff them. I think I am starting to feel a little of that already.

The trip she is on is for work, but she has never been to DC before. She decided to extend her trip through the weekend so she could check out the city. She planned this trip a month or 2 ago. It wasn't until this past weekend (right before she left) that I realized that meant that she wouldn't be here on Easter. The way her planning has gone the last year, I'm pretty sure she didn't realize it when planning it either. Her and I didn't talk about that aspect, but now it comes down to the fact that she won't be here on Easter because she wanted to have a mini vacation in a new city by herself. I wonder how she'll feel about that if she is starting to surface a little. Guess it doesn't really matter at this point.

Well, back to the kids for now...thank you, friend. Your advice always hots home.

[sjohns6]

KML...

lol...she might indeed be planning to kill me in my sleep!

I agree with rewarding good behavior. I feel like I did that at the time, but in the days following I am questioning everything in my head. I'm going to try and not show my guard is up, but I think she is like a bloodhound with that kind of thing. Not sure why she can be oblivious to so much but pick up on stuff like that.

I don't think for a minute that she is fully baked...and I suspect that when she gets back that she will be in a different frame of mind. I feel like I can feel that happening already, but I could just be over analyzing. Well, I am definitely over analyzing, but that can't be helped sometimes. I almost feel like its a good thing that she went out of town right after. Give us both some time to process.

I am going to try and be prepared for whatever happens and enjoy myself in the interim. Just threw me off guard when 2 days later I wasn't ecstatic over her seemingly heartfelt apology and expressing a desire to make things work. I guess thats growth on my part. Had she said the same thing 3 months ago I think I would have jumped right on board...

[bttrfly]

Hi Sjohns6 .... I think the best thing I can offer is to re-read Cali's thread. Not that your wife is going to do what Cali's did - just that you need to be prepared for absolutely anything, and Cali I think is a great example of how to navigate these rocky shoals.

I'm delighted that you're posting, btw!!!

I'm glad your wife initiated that convo with you.

Try to have a wonderful Easter! xoxoxo

[sjohns6]

Bttfly, thank you! I will read back through Cali’s thread. I feel like I’m walking a tightrope sometimes and the advice I get here helps me keep my balance. I had a good Easter...I hope you did too!!

Wanted to post an update. So, in my last post I was conflicted on my good conversation with W. As the week progressed, she called and texted a little more and said she missed me and loved me several times. This was a big positive and helped me feel better about where we stood. Still knew that it didn’t mean we were all better, but it helped me accept that it wasn’t just a 1 day feeling from her. Then she got home and things have been going pretty well. I feel like I can tell she isn’t recovered from MLC, but that she is making efforts to make things better between us. She isn’t replaying or cold shouldering me and our time together has been the most normal it has been in a while.

Then, last night I had a trigger moment. Wife was helping D with a project on her iPad. It kept locking and D kept having to tell W what the password was. D kept just unlocking it for her instead of telling the password and W said something snarky about it (jokingly). Well, that triggered me a little because right now I still don’t know the PIN to my wife’s phone since she changed it to keep me out of her phone...and I still don’t know what she changed the password to my cell phone account to. I haven’t brought it up at all because I haven’t needed to and I didn’t see the need. The convo between W and D triggered me though because her not wanting me looking at her phone was never really dealt with. I tried to not let it get to me, but in our convo the other day she said she wanted me to be honest with her and that she didn’t want us to sweep things under the rug.

So, after kids went to bed I said something to her about it. I basically said that it bugged me that she still wanted me locked out of her phone. At that point, after the convo we had, I was hoping that maybe it was just an oversight. Not that she still wanted me out of it but that we just hadn’t discussed it. I was wrong. I clarified that it wasn’t that I wanted to look at her phone, but that it bugged me that she didn’t want me to and intentionally changed her PIN so that I couldn’t get in. She basically told me that it bothered her that I didn’t trust her and that she didn’t want to be in a relationship where she felt like someone was constantly looking over her shoulder monitoring what she was doing. There was a lot of back and forth and although it wasn’t horrible, in the light of how things seemed to be going the last 2 weeks, it wasn’t good either.

Now I feel like I rocked the boat. Things were going ok and now we both feel hurt and emotionally drained. I know that I didn’t cause this and our issues need to be brought out so that they can be addressed, but I can’t help but think that I could have tried to give it some more time before bringing it up. She says that I will say something and if she doesn’t reply the way I want her to I get frustrated. She says that I seem to always be disappointed in everything she does. That isn’t true, and I told her as much...and she knows that she was exaggerating. But, it shows me that things weren’t going as well as I thought if she is not trusting me. It’s weird that she wouldn’t trust me, but I kind of get it. If she feels that I don’t trust her then it causes her to feel untrusting of me. Ex, if I don’t trust her and had access to her phone then I would be looking at it all the time.

Not that the trust is fully restored between us, but I really haven’t been worried that she is out having an affair. I am not worried about what she is out doing. My issues as of late have been more about the way she treats me in general, but that has been getting better. I guess the problem now is expectations. I have been expecting that because things have seemed better that it meant she was feeling better towards me. Turns out she still doesn’t trust me, and I don’t feel like I have earned that at all. I did look at her phone a few times, but even that was months ago. I’ve had to forgive so much and restore trust on my own and I feel like very little of that has been based on any effort of hers.

So now I have to figure out how to move forward after this. I told her that I still wanted to work things out and that it was important to be honest with each other. that this was something that had bothered me and I didn’t want to sweep it under the rug. Now we have told each other how we feel about it, and now maybe we let it go for a little while and get back to moving forward with things. I guess we’ll see how things progress. Just when you think you have things somewhat figured out...

[Gordie]

SJohn6,

I wish I had some good advice for you.

There was something recently that triggered me. I told w about it and we had some tense moments.I felt myself getting angrier so I left the house and talked to a friend before things escalated. I came back and was able to address the conflict more rationally.

This is tricky. She is emotional. You are emotional.

Good to not sweep things under the rug but also how best to deal is not always clear.

Do what works. Stop doing what doesn’t. If you could do that over again, what would you do differently, if anything, or in the end was it the best that could have been done?

I also think you are very self critical and probably over analyzed this 5 minute discussion a few too many times.

Does this really matter? Are you sweating the small stuff? If you were the best version of yourself, what would you have done?

Or if it is really important, could you try a very non-SJohn6 approach? Instead of bringing it up that night when you were still emotional about it and said it in a negative tone—what would a 180 be for you?