Gordie #18: still not divorced

[bttrfly]

Gordie ... "and the days I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, well I have really good days" xoxoxo You may want to google a song called Mother Blues by Ray Wylie Hubbard ... that line is from that song

[sjohns6]

Gordie,

I stepped away from the boards for a while but came back today and really wanted to see how you were doing. It sounds like you are doing pretty good and I am very happy to hear that. Sorry to hear about the nightmares, but that seems fairly normal considering. It will pass in time...especially as your day thoughts continue to become more positive.

Stay strong, brother!!

[Gordie]

Cali,

Thank you so much. My ghost of Christmas future! Dude, I swear you have a crystal ball.

I haven’t read that before. That both re write history at b d. And I think that’s true. Like you, I was neither happy nor unhappy. TBH, this feeling of just going through the motions was a cause in my de-emphasis on her and the M. I had my own resentments.

I feel like my w has always judged me and somehow I was never good enough for her. She was always comparing me unfavorably to her father and other men.

She would never say she was sorry. If we got into a fight, she’d go cold and give me the silent treatment until I broke the ice. Somehow, the only way to do that was to say I was sorry...no matter who did what to whom. And often times the fights were over little things and I felt like I never knew what we were really fighting about.

She withheld sex from me. This built up resentment on both sides. Neither was happy.

She was a spender and I was a saver. If I made $50k, she wanted more. If I made $100k, she wanted more. If I made $200k, she wanted more. No matter how much I made, it was never enough. She felt I was stingy and I felt like she was reckless.

She is full of gratitude towards friends and strangers. But to me at home? There was no gratitude. She resented being a SAHM and giving up her career and being financially dependent on me. She felt trapped and we both felt we took each other for granted.

More digging...

[Irish M]

Hi Gordie
Glad your W is warming up. Still go slow

On your nightmares, I had those too for at least 2 years. I saw it more as fights we never had. After BD I was dazed and focussed on the kids. Didn’t have a chance to argue and besides what she was selling made no sense. So in my dreams I told her what I wanted to but never did.

Funny just reading your post today on her never apologizing or breaking the ice first. I too , like you and I think many have said it here we’re always the one to step forward and fix things . While they sweep it under the rug like it never happened.

I see that as a character flaw and in MLC is enhanced.

Take care buddy
I’m still rooting for you

[SBJ]

She would never say she was sorry. If we got into a fight, she’d go cold and give me the silent treatment until I broke the ice. Somehow, the only way to do that was to say I was sorry...no matter who did what to whom. And often times the fights were over little things and I felt like I never knew what we were really fighting about.

Gord, I agree and was in the same boat with regards to my w. Is this something that they experienced and learned from their mothers? Who know...but it is not something that is normal. As a fixer we would always try to fix what was wrong even if we didn't cause it or break it. That isn't healthy.

She withheld sex from me. This built up resentment on both sides. Neither was happy.

Again, this is not something that should be tolerated, but in an unhealthy M I'm sure it happens more than we know.

She was a spender and I was a saver. If I made $50k, she wanted more. If I made $100k, she wanted more. If I made $200k, she wanted more. No matter how much I made, it was never enough. She felt I was stingy and I felt like she was reckless.

Most people that are depressed and or having a feeling of a void trying to be filled are like this. Mine was no exception. She did make good money, but we had stacks from Amazon on the porch daily and there were always new things in the closet. Not setting boundaries myself, it definitely got out of hand.

She is full of gratitude towards friends and strangers. But to me at home? There was no gratitude. She resented being a SAHM and giving up her career and being financially dependent on me. She felt trapped and we both felt we took each other for granted.

Mine too praised everyone but me. It took her leaving to realize that I never got that anyway. It is definitely my #2 love language (praise and affirmation) just behind the physical touch. The problem I see is that most marriages lack the proper communication to tell their spouse what they need out of the M.

It's funny that God puts us in situations that we need to be in to open our eyes to what he wants to teach us. You are still learning so much it is great see and learn from all of our relationships. Stay strong my friend.

[AndrewP]

I was neither happy nor unhappy. TBH, this feeling of just going through the motions was a cause in my de-emphasis on her and the M. I had my own resentments.

Check

She would never say she was sorry. If we got into a fight, she’d go cold and give me the silent treatment until I broke the ice. Somehow, the only way to do that was to say I was sorry...no matter who did what to whom.

Check

She withheld sex from me. This built up resentment on both sides. Neither was happy.

Check

She was a spender and I was a saver. If I made $50k, she wanted more. If I made $100k, she wanted more. If I made $200k, she wanted more. No matter how much I made, it was never enough. She felt I was stingy and I felt like she was reckless.

Check - although in the last few years she became quite frugal as we recovered from a financial mess and my income steadily increased. She was quite proud of her frugality but also kept wanting nicer and nicer things.

She is full of gratitude towards friends and strangers. But to me at home? There was no gratitude.

Check

Same song, different singers.

I think one key difference in our situations was that for my ex her OM was a moderate step up in financial capability so that gave her more incentive to "complete the transaction". I heard from friends that she was bragging about the life they would have together and the large amount of money he got from his wife's insurance policy after she died. Yep - low class gold-digger.

This conflicted with her need to appear to be a fabulous person to the world. Hence her interactions with others - who she would talk down about behind their backs and her volunteer work - which she would rage and complain about in private.

I recall her fear after her affair going on for a year on the night before she finally moved out that it would become public that she cheated on me if I filed for divorce on the grounds of adultery. There was true horror in her and rage at me for even considering it since "but people would know" as she said. I'm not sure how many people believe her lies but most people in our circle know. She does have a separate non-overlapping much smaller circle of friends these days I believe.

Perhaps if your W had landed a well-off widower with a large insurance settlement and an active business your situation would have gone more like mine.

Writing this reminds me of my ex's brother. A few years ago he was caught having an EA (there was probably other cheating and PAs over time). When going through mediation he found out that his wife controlled all the money and that he would be scr3w3d in any settlement. They reconciled. Seeing him is like seeing a prisoner under guard. A very nervous man who is superficially trying to make his wife happy but doesn't seem happy about it. His wife has a long list of excuses and reasons for his cheating like "he was tired and the kids made too much noise in the house" and "we didn't involve him in things but he wasn't home anyway" etc. I figure that he's probably either been cheating all along or will as soon as he figures he can get away with it and keep the money. In talking to him when I was trying to get him to tell my W of the time that reconciliation was a good idea he was contemptuous of me and my attempts, believed that cheating was normal and that great relationships come from it, and that the only reason his EA wasn't a PA was that he was too lazy to drive up to see his AP.

I'm so glad that family is no longer in my life.

[Gordie]

Irish, SBJ, Andrew,

Wow. I thought I was a unique snowflake. I guess not.

Yes, go slow. I was feeling impatient yesterday. Some temptation to say something. How long is this going to take? When will my patience run out? Will we ever sleep together again? What do my children think of this limbo?

And being the one to break the ice? Yes. You are right. That is a fixer trait. I cleaned up her messes. She did something to hurt her R with her H? I tried to fix it. Why didn’t I let her fix it? I believed in the don’t let the sun go down on your anger philosophy. But I twisted it. Usually, it was she who was angry and I was desperate to make her un-angry. Is it somehing they learned from their mothers? I don’t know. Was the response something we learned from our fathers? I don’t know.

Re sex, I think that I allowed W to be the gatekeeper to the sexual R. When did we have sex? Whenever she was willing. I don’t think I even know what a great sex life looks like where both partners desire and fulfill one another. She was willing, but the times when I truly felt desired were few and far between. So yes, sex became routine and devoid of passion. She wasn’t satisfied. I wasn’t satisfied.

Re the never ending stream of new stuff. Yes, I’ve seen that movie. Reflecting, I didn’t want to “control” her spending. I tried to have conversations about it like, “our” spending is way over budget. I’m concerned that “our” credit card bills are too high. I wouldn’t come out and say: you are spending more than we can afford. I avoided the conflict. I didn’t want her to be unhappy. I cut my own spending. I made more money. I dug us out of debt multiple times. Good news is she’s stopped the over spending. I see that as a good sign.

Re gratitude. Yes! I never realized words of affirmation were that important to me and then I did that test at the end of the book and wow! And then I realized I was starved of that from my w. But I didn’t even know it.

[AndrewP]

Gordie - That's some good solid introspection there.

[bttrfly]

{{{{{gordie}}}}}

keep going. you're doing great!

#teamgordie

[Gordie]

So struggling a bit with feelings that w is taking advantage of me. She’s taking advantage of my kindness and loyalty and always being there and doing whatever she wants with no consequences and...I don’t know...I guess this is where the forgivnesss comes in and forgiving people who don’t ask for forgiveness. Keep digging. Forgiveness frees me, right? I can choose to be resentful and angry or I can choose to let go and be free, right? I think it’s expectations creeping above zero and wanting her to do or say something to get closer to R, but I can only control me. I’ve been on a good run lately and my situation hasn’t changed, so not sure why these feelings are coming up now.