This is my first time posting. I have been going thru MWD material and im in the process of reading DRemedy. My wife and i have been marries over 20 years. We have 3 kids, D18, S17, S13. Recently i questioned her as to why she didnt want to bring me to her company Holiday party. After some stonewalling, she expressed that she hasnt been happy for some time and thag she didnt feel anything for me.
Heres a brief backround of our marriage and a more detailed recap of the last two years, where i think she really checked out:
My wife and i met when we just finished college. I saw her on a dance floor and we just gravitated to each other. Shes portuguese is strikingly beautiful. There was an immediate connection, totally electric. We started dating hot n neavy right away.
Things were great in the early years. We spent regular time together and also with our friends. Part of the attraction for me was that she came from a great family. Very close knit, super supportive, who enbraced me warmly from the outset. I didnt have that growing up. I came from a dysfunctional, argumentative family. When i was 12, my mother told me that my father wasnt my real father and that this new guy friend tha i had recently met was. Parents were going thru problems at the time but the got back together. Oviously this was difficult becauae my world was turned upside down, but what made it even worse was that i never had a good relationship again with my stepdad...i probably reminded him of the om and the pa!
I know this event had a profound impact on my relationship views. I never wanted to bring drama like that to future children, etc. Things were so bad with my stepf that i moved in with my grandmother when i was 14. I was still living with gm when i met my wife. I remember when i brought my wife over to meet my grandmother. We made an italian dinner(our fav) and i could tell my gm knew this was the one.
Shortly after we started dating, i came home one night from my wifes parents and i found my grandmother unconscious in the bathroom. She was gone. My step grandfather was sleeping in the bedroom. Whats crazy is that my stepg was abusive and had made threats to my gm that someday he would take care of her if she interfered with ow. My gm had previously told me that he threatened that he knew how to hurt her without anyone finding out. Real scary, sick stuff. I had pleaded with her to leave him but she was to dependant on him.
The autopsy said my gm suffered a massive heart attack and my stepgf was never charged. Even though ivr been approached by friends of theirs who swear he killed her. But it was clear he wasnt in morning long as he had the ow sleeping over shortly after my gm died. My wife(gf at time) knew all about this and was really supportive. We got along great. After about a year n half, my wife n i got engaged. Shortly thereafter my step gf told me he wanted to have ow move in and that i would have to leave. We had an argument and i had to leave right away. My wife offered for me to stay with her family until we get married. At first i felt funny, but they were so kind and insisted.
This was a special time in our relationship. We had nice family meals, played games, did activities, etc. I got the sense her famiky could really see how in love we were. We ended up having a large, beautiful wedding and got an apartment together. Honeymoon period was great and then my wife got pregnant with my d and then my son 13 months apart.
Both my wife and i still worked ft and it was def challenging commuting into city and raising small kids. This is where i could see little bouts of depression but she was always a great mom. Moving out 5 years my wife got preg again. It was after this preg that we decided she should stay at home, daycare was too costly.
Once we knew we were going to have a 3rd child we decided to look for a home. Unfortuately this was during the real estate boom of the early 2000s so i overpaid. But it was a lifestyle decision not investment. And at the time my career was really taking off. I was a successful financial advisor with a major money center bank.
Unfortunately, buying that house was the start of the worst chapted of my life and i felt like i already went thru so much. We basically got bamboozeled on our mtg by none other than a friend of my stepfather. Too long to go into, but i knew it right after the closing. Sad thing is that i was obviously financially literate and had great credit, healthy downpayment, etc. And i could have easily got the loan from my employer. But i was cautioned by a colleague to shop outside the bank because i would be obligated to give thag business to one of my retail banking partners so they could get credit. Problem with that is they now have a snapshot of your income, etc. They may not be as motivated to refer if they know thag im making significantly more then them.
Low and behold, i ended up with a mtg that i couldnt get out of and that had huge rate exposure. Within a few years my pmt doubled. This was trying times. I would try and talk about it. with my wife, but she always gave me the vibe that she didnt want to hear it. Maybe she didnt care cause the purchase was in my name and her credit was not at risk.
Two major things happened in 2006, my mtg pmt jumped drastically and the bank i was with had to temporarily disband the referral program. So,just as my exps were rising, myincome was falling. During this time, another large bank was trying to expand their footprint and was looking to add experienced Fncl Advs. They recruited me heavily and offered me a sizable signing bonus. Somehwat reluctantly, because i loved where i was at, i decided to take the new position. The bonus would help get me n track and i could get back to some normalcy. What i failed to understand is that signing bonus is supposed to help you get thru the initial lean times while you ramp up, bring clients over, learn systems, etc. Unfortunately i had to use a significant chunk to pay past due mtg.
Stress on our marriage was heavy. We werent communicating properly. I absolutely made a lot of mistakes. Started to stop off for beers after work, etc. I wish i learned about connecting emotionally back then.
Fast forward to 2008, while litigating against the broker and mtf company, my employer buys the mtg business in a fire sale. So now im litigating against my emoloyer. Not something u want to do especially when they control your licenses. After thinking about it for awhile i decided to resign. But that triggered new problem, now i have to pay back prorated bonus. Fincl stress thru roof. My wife decided to go back to work.
Although i really didnt see it, things really started to fallbapart when she went back to work. I was so consumed with the fincl mess, my career being sidetracked, and if i was going to lose my home and end up in bankruptcy. Intimacy was down and we were arguing more often.
I was hoping to get back to the fncl world but i couldnt resolve the house mess within the 2 year window for my brokers license. I ended up doing oddd jobs and eventually started working for my stepdads hvac company. But i was just trying to do the best i could for my family. Im sure my wife wasnt inspired because i went from managing $120 million in assets to climbing around attics installing hvac systems.
I ended uo fulltime with my stepdads company and decided to make the most out of hvac field. I knew i coukd eventually get into the sales side and do well. Besides, my stepdad was paying me peanuts. Even though people had told him that i had a knack for business and that he should groom me for a management role. I dont think he could ever allow himself to do it because i reminded him of the pa.
So heres where it really gets interesting. While im trying to find a better job my wife is becoming more distant. Going out more with her friends, and not doing anything with me. Intimacy at this point is almost non existant. But i was understanding of that because my wife was going thru some sorr of physical change. She told me that she was getting her monthly cycle al.ost all the time. I think shs said it was like 3 weeks out of the month. And my wife always had the extreme blues during her cycle. Earlier in our relationship, i used to joke about it because i always knew when she had it. Not in a mean way, just to offer a little levity.
My wife has a good job at med size business. She basically does all the fincl reporting and hr. Every year they throw a holiday party in Jan after the new year. Spouses are invited and they usually attend. I havent been to many and zero recetly. In Jan 2017 i asked her about the party and she said that she didnt sign me up because se figured i wouldnt want to go. I said that i would like to go. And it seemed like there was something else. After making some excuses about her having to facilitate some activities at the party she confided to me that she wasnt happy and she felt that we didnt have a normal marriage. No love. etc.
This really hit me because i love my wife deeply and i backed off from her to give her the space she desired while she was going thru this physical change. We had a lengthy all night discussion about what happened and what would be best for the family. At the end she agreed to try and work things out, give one solid effort. But in hindsight, i think she already checked out. My initial thought were shes going thru a change, possibly perimenapause or mlc, or both. She said her doctor said its not thr change. And my wife refuses to take any type of meds, creams, etc. And i respect her for not wanting to take anything. My concern is that the mood swings/depression becomes too much and she flies off the deep end. But i always trust in the girl i fell in love with, smart, responsible, great mom, good family values!
We meandered thru 2017 till late summer. She had to file an addendum for our taxes and needed the file. When she returned it i filed it away and thought nothingof it. A month later i bought anew filing cabinet to store all the record. While going thru files i discovered a some divorce atty paperwork for two attys located in very affluent towns. I was shocked. Would she really go and see an atty without telling me? I guess im naive. But given our fincl sitch at time, it wouldnt maks sense.
That weekend i confronted her about it. At first she didnt know what to say, basically didnt know what i was talking about. Then she said that she never met or spole to an atty,but wasnt going to tell me more because i wouldnt believe her anyway. I asked her to tell me anyway. She said that while at work, there were some peopme standing around,and someone who recently went thru a divorce came oved and said" im all set with this, anyone need it?" And that she took it jokingly. This really my heart because now im thinking my wife really wants out and thinks im an idiot.
And my feeling is that she is getting coached by people at work. And this is where my mind really starts wandering. She has a grouo of people she is close to at work. 2 girls and 2 guys. All either single or divorced. One of the guys, a 50 year old lives in the affluent town of the divorce atty and he is divorced. Go figure, but wait, it gets better. He also is from the same town my wife grew up in and went to the same college. Now i know they didnt know each other, but the talking points are there.
I basically decided to not press it and see if things would get better. I also rationalized that she got scared because we were days from a foreclosure and she wanted to protect herself financially. I was able to fix the house mess and refinance. My credit was repaired and i ended uo finding a great sales position with a major HVAC company. I figures i could finally breathe again and maybe things would get better. Holidays were fine and then get into Jan 2018.
She sends me a text on a Monday at 5:00 that her company holiday party is Friday and its in the city this year. And that she is going to stay in a hotel with the girls so she wouldnt have to drive. This is where she hit an emotional cord, i basicallly said she should just move in with them.(i know, immature and stupid, but i was emotional). She said no. Didnt say anything more that night, but had a discussion the next night. I asked herflat out why she didnt want me at her company,party. Thats where she said that there is nothing there anymore, that she is only there for the kids and that she is not willing to try and work on it.
After talking for awhile she agreed to see a mc. She said that ahe would research thru insurance and set something up. She also didnt stay in a hotel night of party and came home at a decent time. After no appt set for a couple weeks i decided to be proactive and find a marriage friendly councilor.
We met with councilor recently on a Tues night and the first session was to hear us out and set goals. Now i was forunate to have found divorce bstg beforehand so i could handle the situation for what i though she might say. What she alresdy told e. I said my side, that we have had difficulty but that i wanted to fix past mistakes and salvage our marriage. She said she didnt see that as a possibility. And again, our meeting was right at a low point with her cycle, depression, cramps, heatingpad, etc. I wish i could help her. Mc said that maybe we got there too late and asked for to clarify goals. This is where i made headway, rather than acting emotional and angry, i renained calm and said that i would like to work on communcation so we can coparent effectively and maybe rekindle friendship.
I know she was surprised because she asked me to stop for a dri,k after to talk. We started off with small talk and then she opened uo to me that she cant live her life anymore base on others expectations. She was really depressed etc. I just listened and wanted her to feel understood. She was the oldest child and her father was very strict and put a lot of pressure to succeed. I was happy she opened up. I felt like i finally made headway. She even said that she didnt want to announce any divorce to anyone and that we need to work on us. When we got home i asked if she felt awkward if i slept in bed, and she said no. When i got into bed she got really close and started asking me about my job.
So we continue to live together and we are getting along. We are not intimate, but thats a littlr hard with her constant cycle. What bothers me is i dont know if she is in an ea or maybe even a pa. Normally i wouldnt think she was capable, given how conservative she is, but you never know. She comes home from work at 7:30 every night, we have dinner and she typically goes upstairs to bed to use her phone the rest of the night. Of course i ask myself, is she texting some guy all night?
Now the embarrassing things that i was doing before i got to DB. I was looking for her in FB posts, photos etc. She didnt go outball the time, but she seemed to rotate a diff friend on a reg basis. And im emarrassed to say that i even looked at her FB likes, restaraunts, etc and i noticed that she liked a couple oyster bars in the same affluent town thaf the guy she works with lives. And coincidentally he also has liked the same bars. Now i dont know if she just liked from someone elses bc post or what? My mind was really wandering.
Lately we are getting along better. Communicating, being curtious, etc. But i still notice the blues during cycle and she still is in the habit of going upstairs on her phone after dinner.
My questions, should i try and find out if she is in a ea or pa. I think unlikely pa, but ea just as bad? Also, im employing some last resort technique and seeing positive results. Just need help understanding if my wife is in mlc, waw, ea, or pa. Sorry for the long winded explanation but wanted to share, need help. Love my wife n family deeply. Kids about to go off to college and if we cant save marriage it will hurt everyone tremendously. Not to mention we both believe strongly in education and if we divorce, we both throe ourselves in bankruptcy cause of house, but if we can maks it work we both will do well and can help our kids with school. My daughter applying to great schools, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern, etc for neuroscience. Any help appreciated.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Sorry you are here. As you read around you will find that your story is not so unique. In fact, it is very similar to mine.
I am a little further down the road but no more out of the dark.
I will share what I have learned from the forum and DB.
The past can't be changed. How you proceed can. Read sandi2's rules. Read, reread and read them often. You will slip. We all do.
WAW's like to think you can be friends after a D. They do. It helps with what little guilt they have.
Who knows if you will be friends? I wouldn't lead W to believe it is given. Sure you will co-parent, but friends?
Keep up LRT. She will notice any changes. You will notice her response. Don't be fooled. You will get confused and want to get back to bliss. Stay with it or you will only prolong the outcome. Trust me.
Work has to be done. It takes time and short-cuts will delay any true progress. Nobody wants this to be drawn out. It just takes time. It has to be done right.
Regardless of the M outcome, you will fair better if you work the process. You will.
Keep posting and journaling.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
I am sorry that you are here but it is the best place to be when going through this tough time. Your W is most likely having an A with the divorced guy. Your gut tells you that and you should always trust your gut.
It’s very important to read up on boundaries and decide if an ea/pa is a deal breaker for your. It is important to show strength through your actions. You can not control her back you get decide what you will put up with through this process.
Give her time and space and focus on yourself and your children. This is a marathon and not a sprint and will most likely take years to unfold. If you put in the hard work you will come out a winner one way or another. Eat right, excercise, read self help books and the rest will take care of itself.
I’ve been at this for three and a half years am almost divorced and my life is about to get fuching awesome. I was as scared and confused as you when I started.
Rr17, thank you for replying and the comforting words of encouragement. I def need it. I understand about the friendship part, but what really makes it difficult is how close i am with her family, especially the parents. I have a better relationship with them then i do with my own.
And if we do follow thru with d, she will expect me to still participate in a lot of the normal family events. I will always be there for my kids and attend anything for them with dignity and respect. But i dont think i could just act a part for especially if shes having a ea or pa.
Just trying to take one day at a time. Thank you again for your thoughts
Read our stories. Many similarities. Read the links cadet posts. The info is invaluable.
Detach. Do not pursue her. Stop snooping. Snooping will hurt you and change nothing she is doing.
Post often. Let the experts here help you. Remember DB ing is not guarantee of reconciliation but gives you the best chance. And will help you move on.
Good luck my friend. Buckle in.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Ill be honest, i really dont know if she is having an affair. Shes never stayed out all night and doesnt go a lot. But obviously i still have a thought that there could potentially be something. And i know for certain that i couldnt live with her if she was having a pa. Even a ea, i could maybe get past, but that would have to end. I just wish i could know for sure so i know what im dealing with.
Im not snooping anymore. Not worth it. But what bothers me is i wouldnt want to live with her if shes having an affair. How do i deal with that? I really dont think she is, but i dont know. My wife is such a good mother and always does the right thing when i comes to kids and family.
But one never knows. My hunch is more of a friend thing, but i know where that can go in a hurry.
Has had anyond had luck working directly with Michelle? I have some funds coming in and i was thinking that i would try that if all else fails. $ should go to fixing house, kids college, but like i said, if our marriage fails that will trigger a calamity, fincl and othewise. I just hope i can muster up the right approach to givs my family best chance possible.
I too love my In-laws. I just lost my last parent back in November. These people have been better than my real family.
I play golf with my 84 year old FIL at least once a month. My MIL is wonderful and I couldn't ask for more.
Point is, I feel ya.
Do what BD says and regardless, you will fair better.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
Thank you. Does DB have a general guideline on pa or ea...should the lbs find out the truth. Obviously it might be better for somenot to know...and that could even apply to me! But ive alwaysbfelt that the only way to deal with a problem effectively to know the truth.
But maybs all the DB is rubbing off. Because as i write this, the essence of what ive read, is to focus on my children and me. Dont be rude to my wife, listen when she wants to talk, but certainly dont chase. If we are going to find our relationship again, its going to be by understanding how we got here and changing behaviors that suit both our needs! Im new, but i feel im learning.
Prob what makes it difficult is BD was recent and we live together, sleep together, and she doesnt want to announce anything to anyone. I really sense that shes not sure what she wants, but that she also likes the emotional safety of the status quo. I know that shes fearful of things turning old and stale if we got back together.
I guess im struggling with wanting to connect with my wife emotionally and execute db technique!
If we are going to find our relationship again, its going to be by understanding how we got here and changing behaviors that suit both our needs!
F,
IMO you are ahead of the game then most newbies. You are dead on with your comment above. The problem is that it is most likely going to take a really long time to get to that place.
It is ok to snoop to find out what you are up against. Knowledge is power. It is recommend not snoop after you find out because then it is just painful.
I have been here for 3.5 years and read 100s if not 1000s sitches. Unfortunately I am quite certain your W is in some type of an A. Do you have access to her phone records?
Another thing I noticed is you are trying to use logic and reason to understand what is happening. This is how men think, if we D we will go bankrupt, we will split time with kids, we will lose the house......etc. Women do not think that way they think emotionally mainly what is in their heart.
If there is another man in her heart (be it real or make believe), no amount of logic and reason is going to change her mind.
Thats it. I just want to know what im up against. I dont have access to her phone records. And she keeps her phone close by at all times and its pin protected. If i do find her in some sort of affair, at least i know what im dealing with. And just maybe that will help me to detach emotionally and execute all of the db techniques to try and keep my family together. Deep down my gut tells me she is confused and scared, and that she still loves me. I just hope time will be on our side and we can come out the other side! I still love my wife deeply...no doubt about it!!!
Thank you. Does DB have a general guideline on pa or ea...
No, although each sitch is different. Generally an EA is very destructive to a WW. It's wayward behaviour of a very intense type. I have known EA on the board where the OM isn't even interested, (MCS for instance).
It is the waywardness that is destructive.
Sometimes when a PA starts it's such a let down, the A goes poof, or there is an STD or another woman. Reality bites.
In general men can think it's only an EA, only physical infidelity counts. That just simply isn't so where the WW is concerned.
should the lbs find out the truth.
In my view yes. Firstly if it's a PA your health can be at risk, secondly as an LBS you have choices and decisions to make. This requires INTEL, once you know then you will never unknow.
The core is knowing whether you have a WAW or a WW. I can not emphasise enough to Newbies that the difference is important. Vital to know. A WAW should never be treated as a WW. A WAW can see your shift, desire to work on the M and often these M can be saved with the right permanent shifts. Many M have been saved with DB.
A WW is a whole different kettle of fish, usually very nasty kettle of rotten parts.
Obviously it might be better for somenot to know...and that could even apply to me! But ive alwaysbfelt that the only way to deal with a problem effectively to know the truth.
I agree.
But maybs all the DB is rubbing off. Because as i write this, the essence of what ive read, is to focus on my children and me
100% yes. Children come first. This process is all about the things you can do, which is about you. This is self centred, not to be confused with selfish. You put your own life jacket on first.
Dont be rude to my wife, listen when she wants to talk, but certainly dont chase.
Yes, and know your boundaries.
If we are going to find our relationship again, its going to be by understanding how we got here and changing behaviors that suit both our needs!
So, so correct.
Im new, but i feel im learning.
These are great, great insights. I had Sandi rules laminated on a card. If you read my sitch you will find I gave each one marks out of 10. I tracked it. Without DB and my tribe here I would not be around. I truly believe that.
It's early days but these are realisations that took me at least a year to understand and know. The rules are the way to execute your understanding.
Prob what makes it difficult is BD was recent and we live together, sleep together, and she doesnt want to announce anything to anyone. I really sense that shes not sure what she wants, but that she also likes the emotional safety of the status quo. I know that shes fearful of things turning old and stale if we got back together.
That seems like a sound analysis although beware of mind reading. You working on you consistently will change the dynamic considerably. It takes one to Tango.
I guess im struggling with wanting to connect with my wife emotionally and execute db technique!
Yes, you would not be here working on you if that were not the case.
You have the gift of time. This takes shift from you and shift is permanent.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
"No, although each sitch is different. Generally an EA is very destructive to a WW. It's wayward behaviour of a very intense type. I have known EA on the board where the OM isn't even interested, (MCS for instance).
It is the waywardness that is destructive."
This is sooooooo true. My WW was in an EA with OM1 when BD occurred. He was 10 years younger than her, has a GF and was several states away. She was giving him touched up pictures to appear younger. About 3 weeks after BD he'd seen enough to know he wanted to stay with his GF.
That's when she put up profiles on 2 online dating sites and paid for the premium accounts. Further within weeks she was in a new EA with a guy 8 years younger than her. OM2 hadn't received any pics short of headshots as W must have learned her lesson from OM1. (Not that she isn't attractive, she is but she's also almost 50, most guys ~40 looking for some strange are looking for younger women. OM2 also has a serious GF and lives even further away.
WWs are enigmas. Wanting to stay one day, ready to hop into the sack with another guy the next. Pray you have a WAW not a wW. My life has been so stressful the last 2 1/2 months.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Im sorry to hear that you are going thru that stress. No one should have to experience that. Im new to DB, so im not going to regurgitate the strategies and tehniques you have already heard and hopefully are implementing!
I hope and pray you guys get thru this and come out the other side stronger and more connected than ever!
M46(just turned at midnight) W44 D 18, S,17, S13 M 20 T 24 BD 1-2018 Im new, just recently posted an overview of my marital sitch. In Jan wife n i had argument because i wasnt happy about her not inviting mw to company holiday party. She then told me that she wasnt happy, felt nothing, and had nothing to give. I made the typical mistake of gttg emotional and asking her to give counciling a try so we can exhaust all options.
She wouldnt commit to working on marriage but did agree to counciling. Prior counciling i did some homework on dbusting. I had a feeling that she may say same thing to mc, which she did. So i did a 180 and said that i understood why she felt that way and that i would like to reset out goals to improve our communication to coparent effectively. After session she asked me for drinks and she opened up to me, cant live life anymore for others expectations. And she got close to me in bed, which she hasnt in a long time.
That was over 3 weeks ago and ive seen a noticable improvement in our communication. Shes not as cold etc. For reference, ive been doing phone consults with DB. Im told shes a WAW. But i think she could be having a mlc as well. She told me that she has monthly cycle 2-3 weeks out of month, poss perimenapause so i know hormones all over, and she refuses to seek some help for that.
So ive been GAL, focusing on my kids and detaching. All whilr still giving her my undivided attention when she wants to talk. Ive been trying to set weekly goals, solution oriented and a 1 of them is to try and have some 1 on 1 time out somewhere...have a drink, listen to music, movie, anything. But my db coach did tell me to make sure i was able to handle rejecion if that came to be.
Tonight i get home from 2 day bus trip. She comes home from work early to make dinner. I overhear my som ask her about her plans for Sat(besides the wedding?) because he needed a ride. Wedding??? Im askinh myself, what wedding? I ask her what plans are for Sat, and she tells me her cousins wedding, and that she is going. Now my name was on the invitation as well, and we have not told anyone about any problems. And my wife wants it that way. We both do, so we can continue counciling, etc.
Although i did a 180 and didnt show emotion, i was hurt. I love my wifes family and im embarrassed for not being there. Im hurt because she normally always wants me at family functions. IM ALSO UPSET THAT SHE WASNT EVEN GOING TO TELL ME TILL THE DAY BEFORE WHICH HAPPENS TO BE MY BIRTHDAY.
So heres how i responded. I took dog for a walk and thought about dbusting techniques. I calmly went upstairs and asked her if she was available to talk. I asked her if everything was ok? "Yes, why do u ask"? I asked her if she thought we were getting along ok since counciling, "yes". And then i asked if anything has changed from what we agreed to in counciling? She said no, why? I told her that i feel funny not going to wedding, and should i make other plans for Easter. How come she didnt mention it to me? She said that she had to RSVP right when we had big argument, BD, and that she didnt want to include me if i wasnt going to go. She said that she felt bad about after counciling because we have been getting along better.
I asked why she waited so long to tell me she was going solo? She said she kind of forgot about it until her parents mentioned something this past Sunday. I then asked when she was planning to tell mr, she said when i got home from the trip. Basically the day before, on my birthday. She then prob had some guilt, and asked if i would be home early enough from work on my bday to go out to dinner with thekids? I feel bad, but i just said i didnt think so.
I then suggested that as part of our effort to work on communication, and just relax a little, maybe we could get out for a beer or something one of these days. She didnt say yes, but said that she would think abou it. I understand the wall she has built and the safe harbor it provides. But i came from the angle of, hopefully we can be two adults who spend a little time together to discuss family,etc. She then replied, we need to go out for beers to talk? I then rephrased, beers, coffee, anything just to talk.
Im hurt that she said she would think about it. Now is this one of those big tests? Wedding too? Lately this would have escalated into an argument. But we actually had a long positive conversation about how we got into trouble. She opened up about the things that bothered her and just listened, intently. We also had a lengthy discussion about her job and satisfaction at work. It all started by me asking her about her job? She reallygot into it and told me a lot. About some of her challenges, people issues, etc. She really shared a lot of detail. I think she really liked that i was interested. Which i genuinly am!!!!!!
My question, is this a positive or negative or a little of both. My wife is good about remembering events/dates, so i dont buy that she forgot to tell me that she was going solo. Especially when her parents just reminded her. And i cant tell you how hurt i am that my wife needs to think about if she is ok to have a couple beers with me. We still are married and sleep in the same bed. I dont think she is in any type of a, but i do think that she is being coached!
I can't remember your sitch, I will try to go back and find your other thread, but you really need to work on your detachment. Detachment isn't just about your outward show, it is about your emotions and trying to control them. At first your actions and emotions won't align, but as you continue your consistent behavior, your emotions will start to smooth out too.
In fact, that is what detachment is about. I thought it was about controlling her. It isn't. It is about controlling you! I had to learn that the hard way.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Threads merged - best to stay on one thread until 100 posts, it is easier to follow along that way.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I dont think she is in any type of a, but i do think that she is being coached!
F,
Look, man I know everyone starts out believing that their spouse would never have an A. I am 99% sure your W is in at minimum an ea, probably with the divorced dude she works with. That's why she enjoys talking about work so much.
You are definitely not working on the marriage if she is not inviting you to the wedding and won't have a beer with you.
Her not inviting you to the wedding IMO is a way to start introducing to your family that you guys are having issues and she doesn't know if you can work it out.
You eventually D and then a few months later shockingly she is dating divorced guy.
Okay, I read your thread, and I see where you are getting DB coaching and were told your W is a WAW.
As of yet, MWD has not separated the Walk-Away Wife and the Wayward Wife. The term "wayward wife" is not used in her books (that I read). I started a thread about wayward wives, b/c we had some ladies who suffered from abuse in the MR. Some confusion about being a WAW when they were actually getting out for safety reasons, helped me to decide to post the threads. I've been here since 2007 and I saw right away that there were differences in a wayward wife and the WAW. There are only a couple of things I respecfully disagree with MWD, and it is b/c you can't play BFF with your WW before reconciling the MR. You can't nice her back.
From what I have observed during my time here, the majority of H's who join the board seem to have nice guy tendencies. It has been astonishing to see this, but it makes so much sense that a man with NGS would have a wayward wife! If you want to read my thoughts about it, I have a thread about it. The first link to the first one is in Cadet's welcoming post.
If your W is experiencing hormone imbalance (which doesn't mean she is going through the change), it could certainly add to her emotional/mental state of unhappiness and confusion. However, I would not go as far as to say that hormones are the only cause for your W's behavior. I only mention it for your sake. Women are very sensitive to their H suggesting they go get their female issues fixed.
Without more information, IDK if she could be classified as having a MLC, like we often see in women who suffered a traumatic experience when they were growing up. Sometimes, the MLC is linked to psychological issues that were never resolved. Then later in their adult years, something happens to trigger those unresolved issues. IMHO, it is more complicated than her just dreading to see that 50th birthday roll around.
For now, my suggestion is to read my threads about H's who have a WW, and see if it looks like your W......at least the first one, if you are interested.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, Thanks for responding. Im going to read some of the ww post. I dont want to nice her back to the marriage, although maybe sometimes my actions reflect otherwise.
She asked me to dinner last night with the kids to celebrate my birthday and(heartbrakingly) i refused. I met a buddy for a few beers instead. When i got home she was talking about that she wanted to have cake with the kids but that i didnt come home. I told her that i would rather have cake with thr kids and i alone. She was takenaback. "Why do u feel that way?" And i told her the following: Yesterday when her parents called to wish me a happy bday it was bittersweet because i feel like my relationship with them will never be the same...that i have great affection for them.
And its also sad that im not going to the wedding because it could be the last one i get to attend and i get along really well with a lot of her family, and unfortunately weddings are theonly time i get to see them.
And that i thought we took a couple steps back workinv on our communication because she never even told me about the wedding. I had to hear it from my son.
And maybe we will not reach our stated goal with mc of being able communicate and coparent effectivley and not be resentful. I said the fact tha she had to think about having a beer with me when i came from the angle of, its not about thr marriage but rather about our stated goals. Basically no matter what happens, im not going to get the wrong idea. I explained how we both dont want to say anything to kids right now until we work on things and that trying to talk at home isnt always easy. Have to shut bedroom door to talk and thag makes them wonder about things. I explained that we have so many big eventa coming up involving our kids, that it would be nice to occasionally do something where we would could talk without worrying.
Ive been giving your comments some thought and have read a majority of the threads on ww. I dont see the similarities to my wife ....she just doesnt exhibit that behavior. Doesnt go out that much and when she does, shes home at a reasonable time.
I mentioned the possible hormone imbalance(never to her) because she told me that shes menstrual often a good 3 weeks out of month sometimes. And the mood changes ive noticed coincide with the onset. My own research on perimenapause tells me that its common to lose interest, fall into depression, lack of energy, etc. All common symptoms ive seen with her. She tells me she has days where she cant get out of bed.
But by no means am i attributing our problems solely on hormones. I realise that i have contributed a lot to our marital problems. I didnt engage or support her on an emotional level. I really lacked maturity and emot intelligence early on in our marriage. Just recently we have had some discussions, initiated by her, where i feel like we connected again. And i can see the shift in the way she treats me as a result. Im still doing the 180, not chasing, not doing all cleaning,shopping, etc. But i do feel like these occasional conversations, being genuinely interested in what she has to say...emphasis on listening has been a positive. I feel like i shouldnt go 180 like you would to a ww because i dont see the behavior. If that changes, i will as well! Thank you in advance for your feedback
Thank you for checking in on me. Its really appreciated.
I had a setback this past weekend. Im not sure if my wife was testing me, playing games or both. Im probably guilty of trying to understand if shes a was, ww, and/or in a mlc? I just want to know that im taking the best approach to give us the highest probability to keep our family together. I really miss my wife!!!
We had an argument this past Saturday on St Patricks day. I think i carried over some frustration from the prior week(not telling me about the wedding) and it just boiled over. She had gone out with two of her closest friends. Day started with a 9:00an hair appt and she went out shortly after. I also made plans but not till much later, 3:30-4.
As you may recall, she had a situation a few months ago where she was driving back late and went off the road. Thank god nobody was hurt and she didnt end up in a real mess. But it was scary no less. So i decided to text her earlier just to offer her a ride if she didnt feel comfortable driving. Shs replied thank you and i went about my day.
I met my friends around 4 at a place ver close to my house. I was doing driving so i kept it to 2 beers and we hung out till 10. When i got home i was surprised to see that she was still out. She ended up getting in at 11:45. Thats a long day to sit at a bar, and i made a comment to that effect. That pretty much set off the argument. She also told me that the fiancee of one of her friends was also there. They both are previously divorced and are getting married later this year. Even that rubbed me the wrong way because im thinking that he probably invited a friend or two to hang out and they all, im sure are in the know that shes unhappy in her marriage.(i need to let go of this as part of detaching) It really is horrible to think that way but sometimes the mind plays tricks, especially when you're not getting along.
Needless to say i said some emotional things that i shouldnt have and so did she. But what really blew my mind the next day when we were trying to sort things out, she changed her story of what she told me previously. Now she said that she left the bar after dinner and went to her friends house with the fiancee to hang out. Her friend makes crafts and she said that she was just looking at her workspace and crafts. (Mistake) i dont know why she couldnt just tell the truth from the start? And i was also bothered that she couldnt send me a text or something saying that she was ok to drive and/or wouldnt need a ride.
Im still feeling my way through all of this. I haved mixed feeling on a regular basis. I know that i need to detach, but i need ti know how to do it while still living with her? And im also conflicted because i know that has bouts of depression, and i feel obligated to be around her in some manner. And then there is the question of boundaries? How do i come up with and communicate?
What really scares me, is she blames me for everything, and says things that are have no merit. Previously she referred to an incident years ago and said that was the final straw. But after she realized that we had been intimant and had some great times after that, she moved on to something else. This last time she really floored me by saying that she felt like she was held hostage in her own home and has to walk on eggshells. And that she shouldnt have to chronicle everything she does in a day. (Im not asking anything anymore from her.) Also, in our last counsilling session she was asked if she ever felt that she was in any type of danger or scared of anything, and said no emphatically. Ive never layed a hand on a femal in my life and have never prevented her from going out. So this is really scary to me because what if she starts sayinv things like that to others? Thats why i know i have to let go and totally detach!!!
My concern is that we are right in midst of finalising plans for our daughters college. Shes already been accepted to one of the top schools in the country(at least i can be happy about that) and im trying to get all the financing togther. We try and split all the bills but shes been spending a lot on clothes. Buying expensive bathing suits( has like 10) She even joked how this online shopping is going to make everyone go broke. This is so unlike my wife, because she would be putting our kids education first. Shes worked incredibly hard with our kids with school and now hardly at all. My 13 year old is struggling with school and it doesnt even seem to bother my wife. So im trying fill that void as best i can.
So, i think she really is going thru a mlc. And her menstrual sitch is really taking a toll. She has trouble getting out of bed and has no energy for excersize or pretty much anything. Im surprised she can function at work. The good news is that i have plenty to keep me busy. Having just started a new job a few months ago, tons of work around the house(she does nothing but her own laundry) and get all the financing completed for my daughters college. In addition i have to plan her graduation, and my son is playing on an elite travel baseball team. I have plenty to keep me busy. And im going back to the gym today. This really helps alleviate the stress and makes me feel good.
We have been ok(no relationship talk or arguing) the last few days. And she does want to see the councilor soon. We have an appt scheduled next week.
Sorry for the long winded response, but i just needed to get it off my chest.
Just as a followup to her scary remarks. We did have a discussion about her hostage remark. Basically i wanted to let her know that if she ever felt that way to let me know and i would leave. Or if she ever felt uncomfortable with me around. She said no! She told me that she doesnt feel that way...she just doesnt want to have to give a detailed chronology when she goes out!
Just as a followup to her scary remarks. We did have a discussion about her hostage remark. Basically i wanted to let her know that if she ever felt that way to let me know and i would leave. Or if she ever felt uncomfortable with me around. She said no! She told me that she doesnt feel that way...she just doesnt want to have to give a detailed chronology when she goes out!
I'm sure you meant well, but in the future it would probably be best to keep these type of suggestions to yourself. Whatever is going on with your W, it's clear she is not the girl you fell in love with. The point is, you know the truth. You know your W has no logical reason to make such a damaging statement about you, therefore, don't be so quick to volunteer to leave your own home if she doesn't feel comfortable. You'd be surprised just how many W's would do it, just to get the H out of there.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
My mother said the same thing. And i dont want to be labeled that i abandoned my children.
Im just going to focus on my kids and I. Im really going to detach from her. Otherwise i feel myself being pulled into that despair and i dont want to live that way. Not to mention my kids need me to act responsible and be there for them.
And you ard correct, shes nothing like the girl i fell in love with. I pray everyday that she returns! Hopefully she can find her way. I really think the pressure she felt from her father at an early age has something to do with this. Her younger sister has rebelled against him many times. My wife opened up about that to a after our first visit with mc. So thats prob why she gets so defensive when i ask her questions.
Like you said, shes not that girl right now. Its pointless to speculate and expend energy. Maybe she will come around at some point!
Thank you so much for taking the time. I hope you know how impactful that is for us going thru this. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your time and thoughts!
Just taking the time to read my post and share an observation. I dont get to talk to many people about this situation and its nice to be able to get things off my chest.
Stay in your MH nor the MBR, it's very important that you do and getting back in to your home later may be almost impossible, actually and psychologically. It may cost you a great deal with regard to contact with your kids.
If you get an L, then they will give you advice on it. I always think great L advice is worth every penny, especially when received before any precipitous action is taken. I wish I had taken that step before I walked, not to save my M, that was never possible, but early advice would have saved a lot of pain.
And your children need you as the most stable part of their lives, a dad in a million. Kids come first always.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thank you for checking in. Im sorry for not responding earlier, ive been so busy lately, really havent had the time to go on dbusting.
Things are going ok. We havent had any arguments so thats definately a positive. I have avoided any rship conversation. We have been getting along better and shes been home more. She normally goes out once per week till 10pm or so. Ill take it.
Im just trying to figure out the best path to help us move closer. I really miss my wife and wish i could experience that closeness again. Im still trying to figure out how to work on myself while living under the same roof and in the same bed with her?
Never thought it could get this bad. Been off this site for awhile now but came back because i really need the support.
I think my wife is probably having an affair with someone at work and is being pushed to leave me quickly. Ive never felt so hopeless in my entire life. After bdrop a few months ago we were actually getting along really well. I was hoping that maybe she would realize the benefits in staying married. When we last met with a councilor we both agreed to at least talk and try and see if there was anything there. At the very least, we could work on communication so if we did divorce we could effectively coparent together amicably without resentment. And we also agreed that she would live in the house to let my youngest finish out school. He will be in 9th grade next year. Especially since we couldnt afford 2 expensive households with our kids about to go to college.
Fast forward to last week, I accidentally discover that my wife recent applied to rent a house with my 3 kids and didnt tell me a thing. I was absolutely floored. Hurt beyone belief. I confronted her and she said that it was no big deal and that shes been looking periodically since we started having difficulty in our relationship. I reminded her about our agreement and asked why couldnt she tell me if things had changed? She dismissed it as no big deal and that she wasnt moving. She also layed blame on me again like she does typically when shes in the wrong and/or i catch her doing something.
She swears that she has no intention of moving and that im making a big deal out of nothing. Obviously i dont believe a word she says and i cant trust her. There has been way too many coincidences and lies.
As far as my suspicions of this guy at work, i absolutely believe there is something going on. To recap the history, ive noticed my wife spending more time at the office the last couple of years. She typically gets home after 7:30 each evening. I also noticed that she was coming home with booze on her breath occasionally. She mentioned something about someone having a little bar in their desk. My son had mentioned that she was frequently texting a girl she worked with. Keep in mind that i discoveres she was given a referral to a divorce attorney last year, conveniently in the same wealthy suburb that the guy in question lives and hes divorced. When confronted, my wife gave me a bs story about how someone who juat wrapped up their divorce walked over and asked a group of people if anyone needs this and she took the papers as a joke. Cmon!! Really???? She swears it wasnt that guy.
And then this weekend i was looking at some facebook photos(i know i shouldnt but i have a hunch) and discover that my wife is liking almost every picture of this guy and so isnt her good friend?? Worse, the guy is into crossfit events and they tpically involve him in some sort of workout. As far as my wifes friend, supposedly she met this guy in a group setting once or twice. My wife told me that she showed up at the bat after the Christmas party and a bunch of them hungbout. Now would that warrant the two of them becoming facebook friends and commented on each others posts. Or are they each in the know and helping to push my wife away from me into his arms?
Im really going thru a tough time. Not eating good, losing weight and stressed to the max. Is it possible i can salvage our marriage and do i even want to if shes having an affair? I know that i really loved my wife deeply and im sick to my stomach with the thought of her in someone elses arms! Any help is so very much appreciated....signed down n out!
Family1st, that's a huge shock finding out your wife applied to rent a house and didn't mention it to you. That's also too much of a coincidence that she's liking a guy's photos on facebook with whom she works. There are too many things that don't add up. It's so devastating, shocking, unfair, and painful to find out all this information on top of the problems you and your wife already have.
I've been dealing with this with my husband for several years now. I totally know the physical symptoms that result from being betrayed. I've had insomnia, chest pain, stomach pain, and so many other problems. The stress is unbearable along with all the realizations about what's unfolding in front of your eyes. As I've posted many times on my thread, it's like a nightmare that doesn't end. Every morning you wake up thinking this can't be real and then you remember it still is.
Right now your wife probably thinks she can lie and still keep getting away with what she's doing. It's too bad it's not recommended to involve family because surely if her whole family sat her down and called her out on her behavior she'd think twice.
I'm not a DB expert but I still think you can salvage your marriage although not right away. You and your wife have been together for a long time and have three kids together. It's good that she went to counseling with you. Maybe right now she's having fun and running wild to avoid feeling depressed or to distract herself, but at some point, some day, surely she'll get a reality check either by getting hurt by this other man or realizing she destroyed her family. The hard and sad problem is facing the unknown. It's also agonizing to feel powerless over what's happening. It's terrifying to lose the one you love and to have children who get hurt in the process. It's so selfish of your wife to do this and yet you still have so many happy memories of her and can't believe this is really her.
I loved my husband with all my heart and have suffered through his escapades these last few years without a drop of alcohol, no SSRI's, no family support, and nothing else to numb the pain. I've had a few therapists and a few friends who've cared but it's easy to feel alone and isolated. It's just so hard when you'd do anything to fix your marriage but your spouse doesn't want it.
Most people here offer advice but when the situation is as bad as yours at the moment I think sometimes we just need to listen. There's not much you can do right now to resolve your pain. Perhaps you know as much as you need to know about what your wife is up to and it's been hurtful enough. Your kids must be affected by your wife's preoccupation with her 'work' so perhaps you and your kids can try to support each other and depend on faith, meditation, therapy, or some other coping strategy to survive until the next steps are more clear.
I feel so, so sad to hear of other innocent souls like yourself going through this. It's the worst thing in the world in my opinion.
You nailed it. Thats exactly how i feel, living in a nightmare, isolated, lonely and scared to think about the impact on my kids. And i think its just a matter of time because shes made such poor decisions and forgetting to cover her tracks. You did,mention something about how its too bad she couldnt be confronted in front of her entire family to maybe snap her out of it.
Except for my kids, part of me wants this to come out because i feel that she will have to acknowledge it in front of them and its the one thing that she fears most. She comes from an old fashion Portuguese family and she always striving to meer their high expectations especially her fathers. (I believe this pressure as a kid plays a big part in whats happening now). Somehow i think she might wake up long enough to be like what the heck am i doing to my family? Only time will tell. Thank you for listening.
Fmly, does her family know anything at all? It'd be great if they find out what's she doing on their own, without you having to be involved, but I guess that's unlikely. Sometimes I can't believe people can go to jail for stealing a candy bar but a mom and wife can abandon her family, destroy their lives, and run wild with some other man without any consequences whatsoever. I do appreciate my husband's religion, Islam. In it, you get stoned to death if you're caught having an affair. The problem is it has to be witnessed by multiple people which usually doesn't happen because people carry on affairs in private. Nowadays they don't stone anyone either except maybe in rural Afghanistan and a few places. It's a good principle though to make having an affair such a serious and punishable sin. Not that we want our spouses to be punished in that way, on the contrary we want them to repent and return to us, but if they feared the consequences of their actions maybe they wouldn't be so quick to cheat. I hope your wife wakes up before she does further damage but I know in reality it will probably take a while before you see her change.
Approx a week ago i discovered that my wife had applied for rental housing for her and my 3 kids. Even though she had dropped the bmb a few months ago, i was shocked. We have been getting along really well and we last left it after meeting with a councilor that we would give it time to get our ducks in order, work on our communication so we could effectively coparent together for our 3 kids.
Beside one discussion/argument i couldnt even look my wife in the eye because i was so hurt by the thought of possibly coming home one day to find my family gone. And this couldnt have happened at a worse time because my daughter just graduated high school. Should have been happy and celebratory instead of angry and hurt.
Today i met with a lawyer to make sure that im prepared if she decides to do anything. I also had to pick my wife up from work later becauase her car was being serviced so i decided to tell her so she couldnt say i was being sneaky. I also wanted to make sure that she didnt remove my kids from their home. She said she wasnt going to take them and that im making a big deal out of the rental app because she was not moving. Of course i asked her why she would waste the time and she said that she just wanted to look at the place.
We also discussed some things as to how we got to this point. She blames me for not being supportive midway thru the marriage. I had asked her about the last few years and that ive been trying to have a relationship with her but her routine is just to come between 7:15-7:45 and give us 15-20 minuted of her presence for dinner and then its upstairs on her phone for 3 hours from,8-11 until i go up for bed. I asked her how this helps a relationship and she asked what if she was watching tv or reading a book? I said sitting on social media and chit chatting is a lot different. And when i brought up the fact that she is liking a bunch of pictures(all of him working out or doing crossfit competitions) of a guy that she works with shs says she likes a lot of pictures. And then i asked how it is that this guy and her best friend our suddenly so friendly that they are liking and commenting on each others pictures? How is it that they are that close? She then started to get angry and ssid they are just facebook friends and that im making [censored] up. I then said how ive been to a million functions and met different people and i dont normally befriend them online and/or start to exchange comments with them. She then erupted and said that they are facebook friends and that im making [censored] up and what do i want her to do, feed into that. She then really hurt me by saying dont look at me with those evil eyes.(ive never hear her say that) i asked, i have evil eyes? I asked, i have evil eyes?? She said yes, it reminds her of when i would yell at her and point my finger in her face. (I have never pointed my finger in anyones face, never mind my wife) Because we were getting close to home i decided to lighten things up and said dmiling do u really think i have evil eyes, i always kind of likec my eyes? She said now i didnt because they were soft and i eas smiling.
My big concern is that she is getting angry when i bring up this other guys name. It happened last week as well. Is this because shes feeling guilty over something?
Fyi... i really need help on gal, detaching, validation, etc. I a committed to savinv my marriage but i just dont want to be a lapdog at home if and/while shes having an affair.
i just dont want to be a lapdog at home if and/while shes having an affair.
F,
I am glad you wrote this and understand this will make you look weak. GAL should be simple, get out with friends, go to the gym, start running, take up a hobby. Detaching takes a really long time and most likely will take her moving out.
I want you to be prepared that this is most likely going to worse before it gets better. Have you read up on boundaries? Is an A a deal breaker for you?
Man, I hate to tell you this but your W is almost 100% having an A. Everything you say is too overwhelmingly familiar to be anything else, IMHO. Usually your gut is right. She has been fairly careless thus far and eventually the truth will come out. I would proceed with the assumption she is having an A. I know it's hard not to obsess about needing to know for sure, but the reality is it won't change anything and you could be making progress from this moment forward. Your DBing isn't really any different whether there is an A or not. Use your hurt and frustration to motivate you to GAL and detach and focus on DB rather than whether or not there is an A. Then when you eventually get the truth, either way, you can just stick to the game plan you have already been investing in.
M: 26 W: 26 M: 1.5 T: 3 No kids BD: 31 March 2018
W's affair began: 23 March 2018 Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018 Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018 Ended in-house separation: July 2018
I dont know if an affair is a deal breaker for me. I dont think i ever thought i could say that but i really believe my shes going thru a mlc. Her behavior is so unlike anything ive seen from knowing her over 23 years. Part of me would want to throw her out but the other part of me would worry about her and would want her to get better. There is no doubt im on a slippery slope because i love my wife deeply. I cant begin to tell you how much this girl means to me. Thats why im so devastated at the prospect of her throwing it all away. We should have the world by the proverbial b@ll$ right now but instead im worrying about another man. I pray we can survive this!!!
I am going to post below a post from Accuray that really helped me understand what your mind is going through.
Why are you doing it? Why are you so obsessed with W? You were in a relationship with a woman cheated on you and lied to you. Why is that a prize worth making the focus of your waking attention?
The reason is that you are grasping to re-establish a feeling of control over your life.
When W dropped the bomb she ripped your sense of stability away from you. From your perspective you didn't do anything to deserve it, you couldn't stop it from happening, and you couldn't put things back together afterwards.
That would make anyone feel totally out of control, spinning down the drain, and that is a horrible feeling!
You are trying to analyze and understand everything so that you can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to you again. If I can avoid doing X, then Y will never happen. In addition, you want to unlock this puzzle, to deconstruct it so you can find the solution that will allow you to rebuild it. Finding that key would provide immense comfort.
Your brain has convinced itself that getting W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.
With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.
If you take the focus off of W *completely* she will notice. That will give her space to breathe, and to think. That's the only way these things turn around -- the ONLY way.
Thank you. That really jumped out at me. I realize now that i need to completely detach. Challenging part is we still live together and i dont want to leave my kids or home. But i will focus on GAL and really get myself engaged into some positive activities. What do i do when she wants to talk? I have an idea from reading Sandis rules but was just curious if you have anything to add? You seemed to really have a strong grasp of dbusting. And i greatly appreciate your input. Ty
Also, when she wants to discuss relationship and/or moving forward with divorce. And also if/when i confirm affair?
As far as detaching while living at home the best way is to be out when shes home doing something. Preferably something productive like excersing or volunteering or spending time with family and friends. Do not pursue her or initiate relationship talks.
A year and a half ago when my W dropped the bomb she said she felt trapped. I stopped all pursuing and pressure and a year in a half later we are divorced but still living together and she keeps asking to stay longer. Now I feel trapped lol.
Now imo if your W is in an A she is going to want to get out quick, especially if OM starts putting pressure on her. The thing is you have to let her go. State one time that this is not what you want but you understand that this what she wants and let her go. You can not reason with her. You think logically, I will lose my family, half my time with kids, and half my assets. She thinks emotionally, I have these feelings when I am with OM that I havent felt with F in 20 years. You cant compete with that right now. Be a great dad, get in shape, read relationship books, books on alpha male characteristics. If you do this the odds are very likely you will get a chance at reconciliation or find someone better. There are no shortcuts in this process.
If she brings up D or relationship talks listen and validate her feelings. Do not try to reason, threaten beg or plead for another chance.
I promise you that you will get through this and have a great life if you are willing to do the work. Read Accuray and JRUSS threads when you have time.
I am really sorry you are going through this you seem like a really good dude.
At the core of a wayward W's heart is resentment and disrespect. Your W has held resentment for years. You remember sharing an incident where your W pulled up something from the past, and you were surprised that it still bothered her? This is an example of what I mean. Whether it is unmet emotional needs, unmet expectations, or hurts and disappointments......it is not resolved within her heart. She tries to push it down in order to keep going onward, but that thing is still there.....festering. Strange thing about resentment, it seems to breed more resentment quite easily. Eventually this deep resentment affects her feelings of respect for you as her husband and as a man. The woman is designed where her feelings of love for her H is tied to the level of respect she has for him. That's why when her respect is lowered, her loving feelings lower, as well.
A wife will try to talk about it to her H, but it is not in a language he understands, so the problem is never resolved. Over time, a rebellion begins to form, and her mindset begins to change. By the time she overtly rebels against her M, her H is completely dumbfounded.
WW's all have various degrees as to how they act out their rebellion. But, one thing they all seem to have in common is the ability to completely shock their trusting H. Just as you were so sure your W was not guilty of any behavior I had mentioned in my threads. Were you referring to continuous behavior? As long as the H will act like her friend and not push any buttons, and let her do anything she wants without any questions.......he won't get so much static from her. But just try putting your foot down, and you will see a different story!
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After bdrop a few months ago we were actually getting along really well. I was hoping that maybe she would realize the benefits in staying married.
I am going to get very plain with you. If I sound snarky or harsh or whatever, I am not feeling that way toward you. I feel that way toward waywardness and how many H's are duped. First, I am going to tell you something that I already know you won't take as seriously as you should......but here goes: She is all about what benefits her most. Don't try to talk or persuade her into anything.....including staying in the M. You provide a nice standard of living, and are father to her children. There are probably other pro's that go along with being M to you, but I am going to get painfully honest here. You just don't do it for her anymore. Know what I mean? You don't excite her. You don't turn her on. You haven't in a long while. And before you start telling me about her cycle, I want you to understand that I am not talking about physically turning her on. Although important, I am talking about how a man can excite a woman when he is standing across the room from her, or talking to her on the phone, or just smiles at her. Chemistry! Attraction! Admiration! She doesn't feel it in the M any longer. She tried to tell you, remember? And FWIW, if she felt any of those feelings for you, she would have already been to a doctor about her cycle. All that stuff she's been telling you about not wanting to take meds or whatever, is b.s. But it works quite well at holding you at bay, right? She may not even be going three weeks out of the month........you aren't for sure. And while I am being plain.......those mood swings you put down as due to her cycle? I'd risk a monthly paycheck in betting those are not due to her cycle, but rather just old WW disrespect. I bet she doesn't show that moddiness around the guys at work.
Oh sure, telling the MC you want to work on better communication is fine for her.......as long as she can have her secrets and private life without your intrusion. She'll remain in the M and act like roommates, as long as she can continue going out whenever and wherever, and doing whatever with whomever. You see, what the MR doesn't provide......she'll get elsewhere. Therefore, she gets the best of both worlds. And being a man with nice guy syndrome, you'll keep making excuses for her.
Whenever a WW is in the sitch, the H has to use tough love.....if he ever hopes to have her heart.
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Fast forward to last week, I accidentally discover that my wife recent applied to rent a house with my 3 kids and didnt tell me a thing. I was absolutely floored. Hurt beyone belief. I confronted her and she said that it was no big deal and that shes been looking periodically since we started having difficulty in our relationship. I reminded her about our agreement and asked why couldnt she tell me if things had changed? She dismissed it as no big deal and that she wasnt moving. She also layed blame on me again like she does typically when shes in the wrong and/or i catch her doing something.
This is what we call WW script. In other words, all WW's say practically the same thing, as if they were all reading the same script. A lot of their actions/behavior are script, also. Of course it is a big deal that she was secretly looking for another place to live, and to move your children! But the WW turns if off as "no big deal", you are just getting worked up for nothing....calm down. Yeah, right! You cannot trust her. Do not believe a single word that comes out of her mouth. Every word may not be a lie, but you won't know.....so you can't afford to believe or trust her. This is not the girl you M!! She will not honor commitments or agreements made with you. She has lied and betrayed you. You cannot deal with her like maybe you once did. It won't work b/c she has drastically changed. She is no longer logical, therefore, you can't reason with her. Neither can you nice her back. There is only one thing waywards respect, and that is strength.
So, Mr. Nice Guy..........you won't be able to sit in a MC session or have a nice chat with her and work out the issues that got your MR into this pathetic mess. However, you can change how you think & act, and stand a reasonable chance is saving your M. I strongly suggest you google nice guy syndrome and learn all you can about it.
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Im really going thru a tough time. Not eating good, losing weight and stressed to the max. Is it possible i can salvage our marriage and do i even want to if shes having an affair? I know that i really loved my wife deeply and im sick to my stomach with the thought of her in someone elses arms! Any help is so very much appreciated....signed down n out!
((hugs)) I'm sorry if I spoke too roughly, but I want you to wake up and realize you cannot use some standard M program that is only wanting your money, or some dime store book on "how to make your M better" psychology. It doesn't work with a WW. Even MWD says in her DR that both spouses have to be willing to work on the M. I can tell ya, the WW ain't willing! Can you salvage the M? Well, I don't like the word, "salvage", but you might be able to create a new relationship. There is one huge requirement, though. It take b@lls. If you don't have b@lls, then forget it, b/c she will eat your nice guy ways for breakfast.
As for as your health is concern.......you can decide you are your own best friend and start taking care of you. Don't expect sympathy or concern from your WW. You will have to stop seeing and thinking of her as your old W, or it will drive you crazy.
You don't want her back b/c she feels sorry for you, or b/c she feels guilty, or b/c she can't make financially without you, etc. you want her back b/c she loves you and wants you.
You can decide you will learn how to fight in a whole new way. That's entirely up to you. I am not going to push you, b/c you have to decide if it's worth it. But if you decide you want to learn how........then stick with us. One thing.........you need to post regularly. When you don't post often, the situation is forgotten among the other dozens on the board. People lose interest. Posting often, keeps it fresh in our minds and interest. Plus, you can stay on top of what you need to be doing.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks again for everything. You also seem like a really good guy. Im going to give this everything i have. I hope we will have a chance to keep our family together. I want my kids and eventual grandkids to have that stability and closeness. Not be divided on holidays, step siblings, etc. I certainly dont knock anyone im that sitch because they are doing whats best for them and theid families. I just really love my wife and want to enjoy her company again. Thats the bottom line. I miss my freaking wife!!! And im sick, sick,,sick, at the thought that she might be with someone else! But im gearing up for the greatest challenge of my life. Ill keep you posted and please stay in touch!
Rr17, thank you for replying and the comforting words of encouragement. I def need it. I understand about the friendship part, but what really makes it difficult is how close i am with her family, especially the parents. I have a better relationship with them then i do with my own.
And if we do follow thru with d, she will expect me to still participate in a lot of the normal family events. I will always be there for my kids and attend anything for them with dignity and respect. But i dont think i could just act a part for especially if shes having a ea or pa.
Just trying to take one day at a time. Thank you again for your thoughts
She doesn't get to have expectations for you if she leaves the family/marriage. Oh well.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Thank you. That really jumped out at me. I realize now that i need to completely detach. Challenging part is we still live together and i dont want to leave my kids or home. But i will focus on GAL and really get myself engaged into some positive activities. What do i do when she wants to talk? I have an idea from reading Sandis rules but was just curious if you have anything to add? You seemed to really have a strong grasp of dbusting. And i greatly appreciate your input. Ty
Also, when she wants to discuss relationship and/or moving forward with divorce. And also if/when i confirm affair?
You could GAL with the kids involved too. New hobby?
If she talks about moving forward with divorce, just tell her that's up to her. End of story. You are not there to help with that in any way. Let her do that work, and if she is shaming you into it or getting rude then walk away.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Wow...i freaking needed that!!! I can sense in her everything you are saying. I can feel the resentment and lack of respect. And ill tell you one thing, i feel like i lost my mojo the last couple of years sitting here like a puppy dog. And thats not me. I grew up in a hard scrabble city where you had to fight for everything you wanted. And i was always confident around women and that would fuel even more confidence.
So tell me, what can i do starting tomorrow morning to change this course so she sees brass balls coming out my ears. I really am disgusted in myself that i allowed this to go on. And im disgustd that some stiff who puts pictures on facebook of himself working out is exciting my wife. I will fighg till my last breath to win this battle and have a better relationship thats sustainable to the day i die.
Ty Sandi, im so greatful that you are on this board!
I will not be her lapdog anymore. Ive made it so easy for her to do as she please....im disgusted in myself! Grocery shopping, cleaningn taking cars of kids, dog, inside and outside of house,,etc. But i was wondering if you have any suggestions on how i can pass some of those responsibilities to her. For example, grocery shopping, should i just tell her that im not doing anymore. My fear is if i dont do it nor say anything she wont go and my kids will be coming home to nothing? Even cleaning the house, she does not lift a finger and she leaves trash everywhere. For,example she,has used tissues and umpteen empty water bottles piled up along cobwebs that she will not so anything about. I dont for awhile until its too much to look at and then i cave. She has flex hours, but she decides to sleep late and go in after 9:00 am every morning and doesnt get home till 7:30 8:00 everynight. She probably does that on purpose so she can spend time with this guy i suspect at work. Can i suggest she go in earlier because i will not be available to make dinner and clean for her?
Okay, great to hear you say so! The sooner you can change the dynamics in the relationship, the better. I'll list a few things you can start immediately.
* You must stop all actions that make you appear as though you are trying to persuade her. That includes any talks about the relationship (which will be hard, but you can do it). * Don't inquire about her plans or her desires for the future. Other than logistics for the children, or something along those lines, don't ask questions about what she is going to do. * Don't ask how she feels or if she is upset, worried, angry, etc. Don't ask about her cycle. Ignore the moodiness, but if she disrespects you in front of the kids, ask to speak in private (so as not to talk in front of the kids) and then tell her you won't tolerate being disrespected in front of the children. Keep it short and clean, then leave the room. * Don't accommodate your WW. I don't know how entitled she may act, but do not rearrange your daily schedule or plans to fit whatever she wants that day. Don't wait/serve her hand & foot. Don't be her personal assistant. Don't clean up her mess. Don't do all the chores. * Stop fearing her anger and her moods. Don't do all the house chores, trying to keep her in a civil mood, or anything you habitually do to keep the peace with her. Let it go, and let her rip. Do your part, but don't do everything thinking it will help her by lightening her load. If you don't understand, let me know and I will say more about it. * Don't try to fix the things around her, trying to make things easier on her.....hoping this will help the relationship. * Regard your WW in the way you would treat a woman who was there for room & board. Use this as your stencil when you interact with her, and if you aren't sure how to respond to something. * When the children are present, try to act as normally as possible in your family interactions (like at the dinner table), but don't over do it. You are not overjoyed at your W's behavior, so don't over-kill with pleasantries. * Don't find reasons to play happy family with your WW. She may try to take advantage and cake eat. As long as you are under the same roof, a certain amount of cake can't be avoided. However, don't plan some family activity just so you can have her company. Know what I mean? She needs to wonder if you even desire to be in her presence. You are trying to change the dynamics, and she has to wake up and see that her H is no longer crazy about her and doesn't particularly desire her company.......since she has become wayward. He can take her or leave her. See what I mean? In other words, you need to act as if you are letting her go.......and, not reluctantly. None of this is said in words. It's all attitude and actions. Forget having long talks where you explain all of this to her. * Stop giving explanations to her about your actions, decisions, etc. Don't repeat thing you've already told her. Don't tell her you don't want a D or separation, b/c she needs to wonder if you want out of the M. This changes the dynamics when she stops seeing you as the one she's dumping.....and sees the possibility of you dumping her.
Is your WW aware that you suspect something? If not, don't say anything just yet. Get your ducks in order, financially & legally. Know where you stand, should a S/D come.
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My big concern is that she is getting angry when i bring up this other guys name. It happened last week as well. Is this because shes feeling guilty over something?
Yes, it's guilt. Stop bringing up OM's name. That's not how to deal with things. If you want to know if they've had an PA, or if it's some different guy......you may have to hire a private detective, and even then, it may not be solid proof. Reading her phone texts would probably reveal a lot more. If you don't have access, then you don't. Some H's cannot deal with the information they uncover. Many H's say an affair is a deal breaker, until they are faced with the facts. So, don't make any proclamations to her, thinking it will carry weight on her decisions......b/c it won't. Neither can you guilt her out of an affair and back into your arms. If you want intel and can get it, that's your decision to make. I just caution you about getting hooked on reading her messages, etc. it happens with H's all the time.
From this point onward, you can no longer say & do things to see how she reacts. It does not work, and the H just makes himself look like a dope. H's have a natural urgency to protect/secure what is theirs, including their W. He sees the OM as a predatore, which may be true.......but the OM is not forcing anything on your WW. Hard to swallow, but you have to know that she is not that innocent girl you fell in love with. I want you to stay balanced in your thinking and don't get too focused on the OM and think he is the problem. He is a result of the problem that exsisted in her heart. Even if OM leaves the picture, your W will still be wayward and she'll pursue someone else. Her wayward mindset is the problem here.
I want you to be prepared for the worst. She is going to say mean things to you. She's going to accuse you of things that aren't true. She's going to lie. She's going to hurt your feelings.....and break your heart. Every time you open up or initiate a R talk.......you will get more hurt, and nothing will be resolved. It often pushes the WW to take the "next step", which to her means a separation of some type. So, no talks! BTW, do not agree to an in-house separation, and do not agree to sleep anywhere else but the MBR (marital bedroom). If she doesn't want to sleep with you, then she can sleep elsewhere. She'll get nasty, b/c society has taught men that they should give the softer female the best bed. Well, forget that rubbish. The faithful spouse should stay in the marital bedroom, if at all possible.
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Fyi... i really need help on gal, detaching, validation, etc. I a committed to savinv my marriage but i just dont want to be a lapdog at home if and/while shes having an affair.
Okay, we can help you with it. First, I want to warn you about validating a WW. I know, you hear it all through the threads here on the board, and I didn't say anything until recently. Unless you are as naturally talented as Wonka and Another Stander with validating........I would not worry about doing it too much. My reasons for this is based on the mindset of the WW. To her, having a H who is trying to validate her every time she says something makes him appear too eager to be her appeaser. I wish I could think of a good anology to explain what I mean. If he doesn't have the natural know-how, he's going to sound as if he just a$$ kissing......and he's going to do it waaaay too much. When I read posts from a LBH describing an interaction with their WW, he'll usually add that he validated. Most times, this is a guy who never validated her in his life.......and suddenly he's validating his wayward W every time she opens her mouth? He's going to appear like a "Yes Dear" kind of H, which WW's hate. So, please be very careful about validating her. I'm not suggesting there is never a time & place, but just be cautious.
As for GAL.........let me first explain it does not mean you go looking for other women, or hang out at bars/clubs. It's whatever you enjoy doing. Do you have a hobby, or did you have one before you got so busy with life? Maybe you've considered one. Are you into sports, travel, dance, puzzles, digging for artifacts, exploring new places, watching action movies, hanging out with your buddies, camping, fishing, hunting.......or something you stopped doing b/c your W didn't enjoy it. This is not about her. GAL is all about you, and setting time apart to do whatever is enjoyable. At first, your heart may not be in it....at all. But this is as important as eating and working out. Every successful DBer has said GAL contributed to them being able to move forward with, or without, their spouse. It is a healthy distraction, and it helps you rediscover yourself as an individual, build your self confidence, and makes you more interesting as man. If your life has narrowed down to work & family, and old friends have gradually fell by the wayside.......your world has become too small.
Your commitment to saving your M has absolutely nothing to do with getting a life. You can be M and do something enjoyable for yourself. So, find something you want to do and put it on your personal calendar. Don't just wait for a convenient time, b/c it won't happen. A word of warning.......your WW will become curious about you GAL. She'll ask lots of questions. My advice is to not be obvious, as if you want her to notice you are getting dolled up and going out. You aren't trying to make her jealous. You aren't trying to imply you have someone you are seeing. That's not the point of GAL. On the other hand, you aren't accountable to your WW, so you be the judge of how much information you give her. Never lie, but if you don't want to tell her too much, then give vague answers to her questions. Just stay balanced and don't get rediculous.
The bottom line is the WW will want to know everything about you GAL. Like, what, where, when, and who with. She especially wants to know who you'll be with or who you saw while GAL. But.......she's fired you as her H! So, she doesn't get all those little information packets, like in the past. You may see how she thinks it is okay for her to have secrets and private friends, but she doesn't think the same rule applies to her H.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Yes she is aware that i suspect something. Just from the conversations weve had and things ive discovered, she knows that i know we are dangerously close. And as i mentioned, i mentioned the possible OM and the various interactions including with her best friend, how that really struck a nerve because she layed into me in a viscious way!
Im going to take your advise and not mention OM anymore, but i absolutely want/need to find out. Im just really bothered by her trying to attribute the demise of our marriage to me and she takes no responsibility whatsoever. I know that this is typical of a ww but it doesnt alleviate my frustration and disappointment. Probably the wrong way to think, but i feel that if the truth comes out she will at least have to acknowledge and maybd that will help to accelerate our recovery.(obviously we have to do a lot of work too) Starting with me getting my respect back.
Just to maks sure that im clear on doing everything for her. I should stop doing everything but just my share and leave the rest? Ehat should i do if she doesnt do her part. For example, grocery shopping...obviously that has to be done at some point? Should i say something to her, ask her nicely, or just let her know that im not doing it?
Thanks again Sandi2. Ill keep posting as things move along.
Need help lifting my spirita while im in my wifes presence. Sandi2 mentioned how my wife will be able to pick up on the energy i project. I dont want to seem like im depressed and sad...which i am. The thought of my wife not wanting me anf potentially being with someone else is really making me sick. Im working on Gal and standing my ground with her. But seeing her get all decked out to see god knows who is killing me!!! Im going to do everything humanly possible to turn this around by doing the things that i learn from this site. I hope and pray i can do it! Been with my wife since we were kids. And ive never stopped loving her!!!
Need help lifting my spirita while im in my wifes presence. Sandi2 mentioned how my wife will be able to pick up on the energy i project. I dont want to seem like im depressed and sad...which i am. The thought of my wife not wanting me anf potentially being with someone else is really making me sick. Im working on Gal and standing my ground with her. But seeing her get all decked out to see god knows who is killing me!!! Im going to do everything humanly possible to turn this around by doing the things that i learn from this site. I hope and pray i can do it! Been with my wife since we were kids. And ive never stopped loving her!!!
Best advice on the energy projection is simple, but difficult to actually do at first. It boils down to fake it, until you make it. The more you fake it, the easier it will become to actually do it. I know how hard it is because I am having to do my fair share of it, too. But, you have to just make the decision to do it, and do it! It will happen faster than you think once you take the first steps. But you have to get from 1 to 2 first.
M: 40 W: 37 T: 20 MR: 13 S13, S9, S4 BD: 1/29/18 Sep: 4/23/18 (I moved out) 8/24/18 I come home, she moves out
If you want to get out of the hole, drop the shovel.
Probably the wrong way to think, but i feel that if the truth comes out she will at least have to acknowledge and maybd that will help to accelerate our recovery
Here is what I suspect how you see all of this in your mind, maybe subconsciously. If the cards are laid out with the truth staring her in the face, then logically speaking, she'd almost have to admit it. Once she admits it, the MR can begin to heal. Do I have it about right?
There have been many stories posted about H's who would confront the WW with solid evidence (printed text messages, photos, tape recordings, etc), and she would still deny it. There are some WW's who will admit part of the truth, or it will trickle out a little at a time. Some WW's confess to a level less than the full truth. In other words, she may say they only kissed a couple of times, when in reality they slept together. I remember a few stories where the H told of his WW confessing that she met with OM to have sex, but then couldn't go through with it b/c she was thinking about him. I just don't buy it. One LBH told how his WW claimed she & OM were having intercourse and she stops and goes home b/c she just felt so bad about what she was doing to her H. All of that stuff is WW b.s.
Anyway, back to her admitting to the truth, the point I wanted to make with you is at the point of confrontation, the WW very rarely agrees to what the H wants. What I'm saying is you cannot assume that confessing the truth will automatically end their A and start recovering the M. Yes, of course that would be the first step.......but I just don't want you thinking this is going to happen that easily. I remember exceptional few cases where the WW confessed the truth and told the H she would do whatever was necessary to save the M. Even then, they didn't stick to it.
From what I remember in most accounts, the WW would go to what she saw as being the next step in ending the M. I am being very realistic, b/c I don't want you putting all your hope into believing recovering the MR automatically begins if she admits the truth if/when she's confronted. Prepare for her to suggest separation......and maybe even start the paperwork for D. That doesn't mean your M will never be saved. Sometimes, these are just steps in getting there. So, whenever this "doesn't feel like DBing", tell yourself this can still get you to where you want to be.
Not to discourage you, but as to inform you and so you won't be totally caught unprepared........you need to realize how differently she views all of this. Many H's see confronting the WW as the beginning of repairing the MR. Although that would be necessary in reconciling..........he seems to overlook the fact she is not interested in saving it. Therefore, what's his next move? You have to think outside the lines. I've seen so many guys get pumped about confronting the WW and getting to hear her admit her A. But that's where his plan stopped, b/c he didn't think in terms that she wouldn't want to continue the M.
Just to be clear, I am on your side, and I hear you saying it is important to know for certain about the A, and that she admits it. You are not wrong to need this. FWIW, I would feel the same way as you.
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Just to maks sure that im clear on doing everything for her. I should stop doing everything but just my share and leave the rest? Ehat should i do if she doesnt do her part. For example, grocery shopping...obviously that has to be done at some point? Should i say something to her, ask her nicely, or just let her know that im not doing it?
Well, you have to stay balanced in your thinking here. I am saying if you do all of the housework, cooking, yard word, laundry, shopping, etc............what is left for her to do? See what I mean? If you are doing all the chores to make things easier for her.....then stop it. If you are doing it all to make her feel better, and hopefully, put her in a better mood.......then stop it. If you are doing all the work to influence her feelings toward you......then stop it. If you are doing all the work b/c she act likes an entitled princess.....then stop it. (Do I need to keep going, or do you get the picture? ). You and the kids shouldn't go without food in the house just b/c she's too sorry to go to the grocery store. Use common sense on some of these. And, he!! no, don't ask her nicely. Does the woman not even know what her job is at home? If you've always done everything for the princess......then maybe she doesn't. Honestly, you nice guys! No wonder she doesn't respect you. (Assuming you have always done everything for her, or so that she didn't have to do it......which equals to the same thing). And, please don't tell me it's b/c you love doing all that work. Anyway, make sure you and your son have clean clothes and something to eat. As for telling her you aren't doing it any more........hummmm, don't you think she would figure it out? I do believe it might be the response if she gets pi$$y about it not getting done. Don't make a speech about it, just say it.
Since this seems complicated (for several nice guys, I might add), maybe I should state this way........don't go out of your way to clean up her mess, or to see that she has something to eat, or that she has clean clothes to wear, or that her car has been serviced.........see what I mean? Stop taking care of her, b/c she has fired you. Don't be her personal assistant, like celebrities have. Oh, and when you pull back, she'll probably get pi$$ed, so just expect it......but don't start making some type of pronouncement, or giving explanations, etc. Just let her get upset. She needs to put on her big girl panties and do it herself.
Wow! Speaking of over-explaining!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you. And yes....i needed the overexplaining. You are correct in my thinking that if i confronted her with proof of pa/ea that it might jolt her into a healthy mindset and begin working on saving mr. But i value your knowledge and experience so im going to move cautiously there. I just dont want to allow something like that while shes living in the m home.
I wish i read your post earlier. I went out with some friends last night and stopped home for a minute while passing thru. I discovered that she up n left without feeding my kids dinner. Supposedly she told them some cold, leftover chicken is in fridge. I was upset and i cant begin to tell you that this is so unlike the girl i once knew. I texted her(mistake) and asked why she couldnt feed the kids before leaving? Shs said that she told them whats in the fridge and that theyre fine. I responded by saying(mistake) thanks for everything, why dont u stay out for the night. Just makes me so angry that she couldnt even prepare something for them and maybe sit down while they were eating! That started with a chain of texts and i ultimately told her im done with grocery shopping and doing all the cleaning, especially since im about to be a batchelor. (I know petty...shouldnt be engaging her like that at all, but when it comes to my kids it really bothers me. She ended up getting home by 9:30 and i stayed out till 11. At least i had a good time otherwise. Im learning....never thought i would be,going thru something like this!!!
Subconsciously, you may have been more preturbbed at her in general, than just this time of her not feeding the kids. I'm not finding fault with you, I simply want you to realize how these types of interaction do not help the situation one little bit. The last statement you made about since you'll be a batchelor, speaks more about you than about the kids. So, now that you've told her you will no longer do all the work.......stick to it. But please, don't have any more interactions where you are just sounding off b/c you are upset with her. Instead, come here to vent.
Remember, whenever interacting with your WW, your words need to come from a place of strength and stability. It's difficult when your emotions are so raw, but you'll get better with practice. In the future, and before sending a text, calm yourself and ask if the text is you reacting to her. Ask yourself if the text will change anything for the better. Ask yourself if the text is absolutely necessary.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
What a coincidence of your response. I just received a text from my w to check my email for a message from my sons 8th grade english teacher. Basically he failed to complete the largest project of thw year and received a failing grade. Weve been having a tough time with him this year doing his homework and following thru with projects. We did meet with his teachers to put together a plan for him to stay after and also limited his use of video games/phones etc and he did show some improvement...but that was short lived.
Im wondering how to respond to my wifes text and how to handle moving forward. I think my son is feeling the effects of his mother lack of involvement at home and probably sensing that our marriage is having problems. She comes home at 7:30 or so, has dinner and then layes on her bed glued to her phone for 3 hours till i comeup. She used to sit with the kids on projects, watch movies with them, play games, etc. Now hardly nothing other than hey you missed this assignment, give me your phone.
Im just wondering if you have any suggestions?
As always, thank you for your support. Sometimes i feel like im lost at sea and you guys are the lighthouse to get me home.
One thing I have learned is that we cannot make the other spouse be a good parent (whatever may be our definition of "good" parenting). The more we focus on their lack of involvement with the kids, the more we're likely to let that aggravation, resentment, etc., show to our kids. At this time in the sitch, the more you criticize her, the less she is going to do for the kids. It's unfortunate, but that's just how many WW's operate.
As an outsider, my heart goes out for your son. He probably knows/senses a lot more of what's going on than either of his parents realize. But at the chance he doesn't sense that there are issues between his parents........look at his mom from his point of view. She has stopped showing she cares if he gets his school work done, and she doesn't take part in his other activities......which, to him, must mean she just doesn't care about him, anymore. So, what does his dad need to do to help him?
I can't remember if your son is in counseling. If not, I think he needs to have someone outside of his family he can trust to share his feelings. He may protest against seeing an IC, but at least talk with his school counselor about the situation. If you speak alone, you might even tell the counselor about your W withdrawing her interest and how son is falling behind in his school work. Ask if the counselor will talk with your son and see if he will share his feelings. ask if the counselor will check with son from time to time.
If you can spend more one on one time with son.....maybe away from the home environment, I think it would help. Talk to him about guy stuff, or sports, or whatever he likes. Find something that interest both of you.....some hobby or fun activity. Father & son time shouldn't have to be spent in just talking. Anyway, this should help make him feel more secure, and strengthen the relationship.
Although you want to protect him, let him know he can ask you anything and you won't lie to him. I'm not saying he needs to be told the dirty details about his mom. I'm saying if he asks, tell him there are problems between you and his mom. Don't say bad things about his mom, but don't try to cover up everything, either. If it's private, tell him so. If he asks if there is going to be a D, tell him you hope not. That's better than trying to make him think everything is honky-dory. Even if you tell him you don't know the answer......at least, he'll know you are being honest with him. That goes a long, long way with kids. He will trust you to be straight with him in the future.
I believe the more connected he feels to you, the more he'll step it up with his school work. When you ask him about his school work, do it in a way that shows him you are interested.......rather than just from an authority position. Don't just wait to see the final grade and then confront him about the problem. Make sense? You may not have as much time as his mom, but you can at least ask him if there is anything you can do to help him. Show daily/weekly interest in his studies, what is due, etc.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Seriously, man, i cannot say enough how spot-on Sandi2s advice is, here. I see alot of my own sitch in yours and alot of my own past behaviors in you... and im telling you you cannot do much better on here for insight when dealing with a WW than what Sandi2 and Artista will give you.
Two quick thoughts because i am hopping:
1)
Sandi2:
Quote:
Most times, this is a guy who never validated her in his life.......and suddenly he's validating his wayward W every time she opens her mouth? He's going to appear like a "Yes Dear" kind of H, which WW's hate. So, please be very careful about validating her. I'm not suggesting there is never a time & place, but just be cautious.
Dont know why this jumped out at me over everything else, but it just did, and is SOOOO true. I remember being in an early MC session with my own WW, while she was still fully in the throws of being wayward and was just going through the motions in MC to be able to say she did it (we had at least three "false starts"), and me saying a couple of "validating" things and thinking i was really smooth and her saying something like "You know, it really pisses me off now that you seem to know all the right things to say". Yes, it made her angry that i was behaving like the husband she said she always wanted. Beware, WW's make little to no sense alot of the time, at least to our logical male minds
2) Detachment. Detachment is crucial to DB-ing, but it can mean different things to different people, even as all true detachment has a common underpinning. Some will tell you, and such may have worked and even been crucial to them on their journey, that you need to completely separate yourself emotionally from your spouse, and not entertain any goals of reconcilliation or of rekindling with your spouse. To me, however, detachment meant (and still does) not that i needed to abandon all hope or stifle any desire for reconciliation, but, rather, that i needed to be at peace with all of the potential outcomes, even the ones that did not involve me reconciled in a happy MR with my W. This, I believe I managed, even though i did still actively pray, hope, and in some respect "work" towards the end of reconcilliation even as i was working on myself and becoming a man "only a fool would leave" as some on here like to say. A key component of that for me was my faith... knowing that whatever God had in store for me was good, and that He was constantly working on my behalf towards that end, and that i had to receptive of and subservient to His will in that regard. Without boring you with details i will say there were occasions where i know i did things counter to his will... and i can confidently say that those things did not move me or my MR towards a better place. Some may call that bunk... but i know better. Whichever, in the place i am now, and looking at the sitch academically, i find it an interesting dichotomy to the selfish, me-first, everyone and everything else be damned mindset adopted by most WWs. As did my own W-- a devout Catholic, very devout, who effectively turned her back on a lifetime of faith due to her waywardness. It was that foundation of strong faith in her earlier life that actually helped bring her back, though that was her journey and nothing i could say or do was going to hurry her along-- the few times i mentioned religion to her during that period she like to flipped out on me.
Finally this fundamental and powerful truth is one i know now from experience: She will never find you more attractive than when you are walking away.
Peace.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
One thing that is becoming increasingly obvious is "nice guy syndrome is real, and ive been one for awhile". Thank you Sandi2 for opening my eyes and pointing me in the right direction. More and more i learn about the subject the more i see it in my own behavior the last few years...and the more i feel my wife doesnt respect me.
My question...how can i accelerate my change so that my marriage has a fighting chance?
I dont know that you can accelerate the changes that you make to yourself. It is a process and you need to have patience with yourself. It will take some time.
Part of it is doing the work. Talking to a counselor, reading self-help books, meditating, whatever it is that you need to do to work on yourself. If you arent doing the work then changes are not going to just happen spontaneously.
However, the other part of it is simply "fake it till you make it." Even if you aren't there yet, you can simply act like you are when you interact with your W. Obviously, you want to get to a point where it is real, but in the meantime the W doesnt need to know that. Read Sandis rules, read her comments on your thread and use them as your guide when in doubt. If you know you are going to interact with her be prepared. Be positive and friendly but know what are safe topics and what to stay away from.
Good luck
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
My question...how can i accelerate my change so that my marriage has a fighting chance?
Stop focusing on the MR having a fighting chance. Focus on you. Focus on the now. Focus on the baby steps. Focus on the relationship as a relationship, putting aside your MR concerns for the time being. Your MR as it was is OVER. You have a chance to develop a new relationship, but you cannot have any illusions of it ever going back to the way it was before. It will have to be something NEW. Let go.
Once you can understand this, you have a fighting chance for YOU. The MR will do what it is going to do. You can only control yourself, how you work on yourself and how you conduct yourself.
That is how you give your MR a fighting chance, in my opinion.
M: 40 W: 37 T: 20 MR: 13 S13, S9, S4 BD: 1/29/18 Sep: 4/23/18 (I moved out) 8/24/18 I come home, she moves out
If you want to get out of the hole, drop the shovel.
Thank you for your thoughts and for taking the time to read my sitch. Like most, i never thought i would be going thru this.
Sandi2,
It seems like there is something nee everyday. Im not sure if shes testing me or just playing games? We had a disagreement Tuesday night about the way i was negotiating to buy my daughter a car. My daughter totaled her car a couple months ago and we recently just received the insurance check. Initially my wife was doing all the research and looking but asked me to take a look once her and,my daughter liked a car.
This past Tuesday, i went down to look at the car. After giving it a thourough inspection i setup a meeting with the salesrep later that afternoon when he came in. I had s certain # in mind that i wanted to pay and i even took pictures to a friend/mechanic got his input. I was concerned that the brakes and tires were really worn sob i wanted to see if i could work it into the deal to have them fixed. Basically salesman offered $200 off and wouldnt move. I eventually called his bluff and walked out. I then called my wife yo let her know and that i would go across the street to grab a beer and wait for them to reach out. I explained to her that this is part of the game and it may take couple day.
Shortly thereafter i get a text from my wife saying that the sales rep sent her an email saying "sorry it didnt work out". And that she was packing up and heading home. I reiterated that its part of the process, but she replied with a "whatever". She also said that she thought it was a waste of time to try anf save a few hundred $ wwe are in such a rush. This annoyed the hell out of me because i was trying to makr sure my daughter was safe,especially since she,crashed from hydroplaning. We exchanged a few more pleasantries and that was it.
Fast forward to yesterday. W were getting along and she seemed to understand where i was coming from and discussed a few other cars. This she sent me a link for some cars and i told her i would go look at them latef that day. I then get text at 1:30 saying that she going out to dinner tonight in a city about 30 mts away but that she would bring pizza for my kids because she didnt want me to say she was neglecting our kids after last weekend. I didnt respond to her about that. My only text was a general fyi that my son had to be at his baseball game tomorrow at noontime and that i was going to my brothers kids first birthday party. She stated that she thought we were going to the game together but if i wanted to change plans that was fine. She also stated that she didnt know thag i was suddenly on speakinv terms with my brother as we had a falling out awhile ago.
Im learning as we go here. Im trying to GAL and be more confident around her. I never want to appear neady and im trying not to show hwr that she got under my skin...not easy.
I just wish i knew if she was ww or waw. As ive alluded, i havd my Suspicions that she is in some sorf of affair but i dont have proof. Even down to her liking all the pictures of this guy she works with as well her friend, and he likes her friends as well. When i mentioned this before she blew up at me.(can u say guilt) Part of her explanation was that she likes everyones posts. But i even noticed that she hadnt liked one picture of a girl that shes really good friends with at work. And these are pictures of her newborn baby playing, etc. Pictures that i would expect my wife to like. I just dont have a good feeling. And im really sick to my stomach thinking about it. But im taking eveyones words and suggestions to hears, especiallg Sandi2. I know its for the best and will give me the best shot to regain some control in my life, because lately i dont feel like i have any. Thank you again to those that have read my sitch and offered theid input. I highly appreciate it.
Smart money is on her having an affair. She's already going GGW (girls gone wild). You've already drawn the connection to the OM. You, like me and many others, just don't want to believe it yet.
Quit worrying about her and become introspective. Work on yourself, focus on yourself and your kids first.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Sorry for all the typos. Unfortunately i have to use my phone and the keys are too small. I dont want to run the risk of my wife seeing my posts. Although maybe it might do her some good.
What do i do if/when i confirm affair? I think my wife is having a EA/PA and i feel like it will reveal itself soon. Im,tryinv not to snoop but sometimes things are left right in front of me. Just today, my wife left her phone home(pswd protected) anf i heard it ring. It was her checking to see if it was in her car. Not knowing the password, i pressed down on Siri and didnt say anything. It then listed some potential commands, set alarm, create appt, etc, but one of the commands was to email#### the same name of the guy i suspect my wife is with.??????????? So i commanded to email the guy and the contact also had a girls name, same as someone my wife is friends with. In the initial suggestions, it just listed his name? Why would my wife include the name of her friends husband to in the contacts or did she just add her friends name in case i ever discovered the phone? For example, she has a friend name Laura who is married to Paul. And the guy at her work is also named Paul. The suggestion list said do you want to email Paul? Only after i said email Paul did it show up as Laura and Paul with their last name????
Again. I know i need to focus on myself and not snoop, but sometimes its right in front of me and i dont want to let an affair happen right under my nose. Im prepared if she leaves or what have you, but i dont want to sleep in the same bed if shes dating someone. Im also worried about the impact to my kids if/when this,comes out. I dont want to have a big argument in front of them. I was thinking about taking her to a public restaraunt or something and saying what i know and then asking her to move out and leave the kids with me. Especially since she is disengaged and im the only parent thats stable(besides being down sometimes) right now. Im determined to save this m but she would have to be committed and not in an affair
When you confront her, she'll try to find out what you know. You can't tell her all that you know, or reveal your source. Don't let her twist it around and blame you for snooping. This is about her actions, not yours.
I think she's going to lie and deny........and play it off as something else. Then what will be your next move?
Don't expect a cheater to be honest.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Im not sure what my next move will be. Part of me wouldnt want her in the house and especiallh the bedroom....but part of me still has those feelings deep down, that loves her. Its so crazy. But i believe that i fell into that nice guy syndrome, so i need to fix that. Thats not me!!!! And its so hard to sit in my house knowing shes probably carrying on a love affair every night on her phone and i cant do a thing about it. Well, at some point the truth will reveal itself. Hopefully ill have everything worked out to protect my kids and I. And maybe, just maybe she will get thru this without inflicting too much damage! But im preparing myself for the worst!
Wait. Take a day or two. Use that angry energy in a productive manner as V shared.
Right now you have clues. Real evidence will come. Undeniable evidence is what you need.
So sorry. I know how it feels. You will feel different in a few days.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
You have to understand that the confrontation is not a fix to your problem. You can confront her, but have a plan beyond the confrontation. It is very rare for a WW to admit to all of the truth. If anything, it pushes her to take the next step toward ending the M. This is what I want you to get into your head. You think it will stop an affair if you approach her? It won't. She'll lie and take it deeper underground and continue to play you for a sucker. You have to think outside of just confronting her.
Quote:
Part of me wouldnt want her in the house and especiallh the bedroom....but part of me still has those feelings deep down, that loves her
I hope you won't make the mistake of waiting until every ounce of love is gone, before you find the strength to stand up for yourself. Don't ask her to leave the bedroom or home b/c you've lost your love for her! You do it out of respect for yourself and the M. It is an action that shows that you will not compromise with her disrespect......if she refuses to change.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Fmly1st, it's a critical junction you're in. You have my full sympathy because there's nothing harder than potentially living separately from your spouse for the first time. I wish it doesn't have to come to that. I hope you'll keep us updated.
I know what you are saying about the confrontation not solving our problems. Im just so bothered and hurt with the prospect of her with another guy and her total neglect of our home and most importantly our children. Im not one to stand pact with another man in the picture.
Things boiled over last night. We were putting lights out and she nade a snide comment so i had just had enough; i said why dont you just move out. I know what you are doing and with whom(i didnt say a source or divulge everything i know). But i said enough is enough...if you really want to live a single carefree life, go right ahead. The kids are staying with me. Especially since ive been thr sole caretaker for some time now. I know i shouldnt have but i layed into the om as well. She didnt respond other than an occasional sigh, but her lack of response was telling...my gut was telling me she wanted to come clean but never would. But there is no denying that she knows i know.
And social media makes it 100x worse. The fact that i have to see pictures of this guy with my wife constantly liking is horrible. I get it, dont look! But thats easier said than done! I know that ive had a few slipups, saying things i shouldnt say, etc. But i also feel that i need to get back some of the mojo ive lost the last few years. However, i still want very much to keep my wife Sandi. I hope that i somehow overcome whatever has taken over her heart and bring her back into my arms. Im working on myself and addressing this nice guy syndrome. My concern is obviously if she does leave the mh i may not have the oppty to attract her back!!!
But please, please, please, get off social media or block your wife and this guy. For your detachment you cant be looking at that stuff all the time. Trust me. My wife went off Facebook a few years ago, but whenever she goes out with common friends they are posting pictures, and I just had to use the "ignore" function, because seeing that stuff is just not healthy for me.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
I take quite a different view on this. Quite different, if this isn't an A of some kind I will eat my hat. At minimum there is something emotional going on.
And I am not suggesting confrontation. More when it crops up say 'You can't kid me, we both know what is going on.' and walk away.
I know a H who liked the pictures of the OM and the OM W just to make a point.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Well, ive seen it all. I must have struck a nerve last night. Tonight my wife came home somewhat early, 7 pm, and grabbed something to make for dinner at the mkt. She cooked, sat down had dinner with everyone and actually did some cleaning. Not much and and now shes back laying on her bed watching tv with her phone close by.
I wonder whats going thru her head right now? Does she have any sense of the damage shes caused and about to inflict on our kids.
Listen i was hopeful for a long time that she wasnt doing anything. But thag shipped has sailed. There have been way too many red flags along the way. I hope im wrong
Yep. Hitting gym tomorrow 5am. Need to get after it. Wears on you. Especially thinking about that guy....ive never had any respect for people who mess around with married woman. I know shes to blame, no doubt, but you are a total sc#!bag if you go down that road. Thank you for taking the time. I appreciate it.
Listen i was hopeful for a long time that she wasnt doing anything. But thag shipped has sailed. There have been way too many red flags along the way. I hope im wrong
It's your hope that keeps you.
You can stand for the values of M or R. You can stand for your M despite all.
That doesn't mean W.
If that seems odd, it is saying that the old M is over and the connection with the pre BD W is gone. That the current W is neither gold for R or M. Detaching for the prospect of further R.
Fine if she does, fine if she doesn't.
Standing for the kind of M and R you want need and deserve. Believing in that M. Belief doesn't need wishy washy hope. Belief knows that standing for the right M will be important for you.
Hence you stand for M but not an incomplete shadow version of M.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I wonder whats going thru her head right now? Does she have any sense of the damage shes caused and about to inflict on our kids.
No not at all. The popular WAS refrain is "kids are resilient, they'll be fine!" And besides, she thinks this is all your fault anyway. You were a bad H, you didn't fill her needs, you didn't show her love, etc. etc. Rewriting of history.
Curious as to what her next move will be? She knows im on to her and she knows that i will request that the kids stay with me if she want to continue with girls gone wild. I know there are at least a few people that have her ear...all divorced! They say misery loves company!
Not only does it love company. But a lot of divorces women go through as period of man hating especially when they are between men, and maybe but givin finding a new one too easily.
So they poison the well for other married women. Think the man hating sister in Jerry Maguire. Which was a very accurate portrayal of what I'm talking about.
Unfortunately you can't control who she associates with. But you can understand them. Knowing the enemy is a powerful weapon. As you make her reality different than what she's hearing from her little "First Wives Club " circle, there's a chance her eyes still open to the truth.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Curious as to what her next move will be? She knows im on to her and she knows that i will request that the kids stay with me if she want to continue with girls gone wild. I know there are at least a few people that have her ear...all divorced! They say misery loves company!
Man that's how my WW is. They can't pick good people for their support group bc then they would have no support! That's what my counselor said anyhow.
And I'm not saying that a good person would speak up and tell them flat out "you're wrong", but they'd hear some crazy WW bullstuff and look at the WW like "holy cow". Your WW knows this, that's why she picks who she associates with carefully.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Sounds about right. I never even knew she was friendly with these people until this past winter. I can only imagine the conversations....oh, you will be so much happier,etc. All bs. My youngest son mentioned it a few months ago while we were at dinner that his mother was texting this girl she works with and my son was like, oh shes texting so n so, shes always texting her. And this girl works for the guy that i would classify as the OM. And they dont have the normal manager/employee relationship as i witnessed on Facebook. She added some reddish highlights and her boss/om suggested she go redder cause its sexy???? Not to mention this guy has people take pictures of him working so he can put on Facebook. Pathetic!!!
Man that's how my WW is. They can't pick good people for their support group bc then they would have no support! That's what my counselor said anyhow.
Exactly right. They seek out enablers. They are like alcoholics that want to be told it's not just OK to drink, but a great idea. So they look for alcoholic friends to hang out in bars with them. Anyone that suggests they might be an alcoholic and should stop their reckless behavior is immediately booted to the curb and replaced with another enabler.
My ex had an enabler that had just left her husband. They would go out drinking together and having a great old time talking about their new swinging single lifestyles. The enabler went out and got a dragonfly tramp stamp with "she finally flies free" in Latin underneath it. 6 months later she was right back at home with her H acting like nothing ever happened. Who can figure out all this craziness.
This phenomenon resonates with me a lot because three of my husband's friends got divorced for really lame reasons and his other two best friends and younger brothers are single. Obviously those are not the best role models for a man experiencing challenges within marriage. My husband has also made remarks like "all the physicians at work are divorced" and "50% of the population gets divorced so it's common." I don't know what comes first - the enablers have already been around for a while or our spouses seeking those enablers. I've often felt that if my husband had just one or two positive influencers in his life that he'd make better decisions, but clearly he's avoiding those types of people. Just like your wife Fmly1st, you know her family would correct her but I guess she's avoiding them and affiliating with her divorced girlfriends because they support the lifestyle she's seeking. I'd like to know the trajectory that these types follow - is this a stage and when someone comes along and tells them they're making a huge mistake do they listen and snap out of it? Or does it reach a point where no one can influence them anymore?
I think its so very sad that a person could encourage the breakup of a family. Even when i was single, i would never engage a marries woman from that perspective...totally off limits. Not to mention there are pleny of fish in the sea. Why would i want to get into something like that or be a part of breaking up a family. The problem with today is that its so easy to get divorced that people are not willing to put in the effort to make it work. And the enablers have a huge platform to spread there message, whether it be facebook, instagram, etc.
No wonder why my wife doesnt really see some of her cousins n friends that are happily married anf that im close with. Doesmt suit her lifestyle anymore.
What really bothers mr is that if/when my situation really falls apart i will probably have to have a conversation with her parents. And u dont want to lie and put on this unified front charade like she mentions. I would rather tell the truth that i was committed to this m and all ive been doing is everything for the kids and house. Im not the one that has crashed off roads,at 2am or sitting on her phone for 3 hours a nighg while i sit with my kids doing homework or playing a game. Its soooooooo sad!!!
One area i stuggle with is how im supposed to treat my w. We are still living together but she has already expressed that she doesnt want to stay married. I accepted and we had agreed to work on our communication so that we could effevtively coparent and there wouldnt be resentment and hatred. Its just that ive caught her in so many lies culminating with her applying to rent a house for her and my 3 kids without telling me. Even though we had an agreement in place that when it came time that she would stay in the house so my kids wouldnt be uprooted and they could finish school.
And obviously there is a lot of red flags pointing to a relatuonship with a guy at work. Coincidentally who is divorced, but is not the guy who gave her a referral for a divorve atty in his town. Ya right??? I really had the blinders on.
So after i discovered house application i really couldnt even look at her and would only give a quick one word answer to a question. As i mentioned, things boiled over the other night and i told her that i know what shes been up to and that its disgusting and that she should move out if she wants to live that way. She really didnt respond except for saying that she now wants to do some work to the house. So im wondering how i should treat her while we are still in this limbo stage? Any help appreciated!
The best suggestion I have heard is the the cashier at the store. You are friendly and polite but you are not interested in their life at all. When she is home you should be out or in another room.
The work on the house is BS she is buying time so she can have the best of both worlds.
Man that's how my WW is. They can't pick good people for their support group bc then they would have no support! That's what my counselor said anyhow.
Exactly right. They seek out enablers. They are like alcoholics that want to be told it's not just OK to drink, but a great idea. So they look for alcoholic friends to hang out in bars with them. Anyone that suggests they might be an alcoholic and should stop their reckless behavior is immediately booted to the curb and replaced with another enabler.
My ex had an enabler that had just left her husband. They would go out drinking together and having a great old time talking about their new swinging single lifestyles. The enabler went out and got a dragonfly tramp stamp with "she finally flies free" in Latin underneath it. 6 months later she was right back at home with her H acting like nothing ever happened. Who can figure out all this craziness.
Very true, they share a lot in common with addiction. It's much easier to live in that world than fight through pain in the real world.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
One area i stuggle with is how im supposed to treat my w. We are still living together but she has already expressed that she doesnt want to stay married. I accepted and we had agreed to work on our communication so that we could effevtively coparent and there wouldnt be resentment and hatred. Its just that ive caught her in so many lies culminating with her applying to rent a house for her and my 3 kids without telling me. Even though we had an agreement in place that when it came time that she would stay in the house so my kids wouldnt be uprooted and they could finish school.
And obviously there is a lot of red flags pointing to a relatuonship with a guy at work. Coincidentally who is divorced, but is not the guy who gave her a referral for a divorve atty in his town. Ya right??? I really had the blinders on.
So after i discovered house application i really couldnt even look at her and would only give a quick one word answer to a question. As i mentioned, things boiled over the other night and i told her that i know what shes been up to and that its disgusting and that she should move out if she wants to live that way. She really didnt respond except for saying that she now wants to do some work to the house. So im wondering how i should treat her while we are still in this limbo stage? Any help appreciated!
You don't have to agree to not resent her. You don't have to commit to any "great communication" post marriage. She is a liar, but expects you to be a great communicator?? Nah.
I'd not use the "co-parent" lingo either (but I really like English and hate a lot of the babble you hear). You're going to be a parent. If you get divorced, you certainly won't be doing anything with your WW.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Accusations and snide remarks make the H look unattractive and powerless. The more you say about the OM to her, the less she'll desire you. Nothing was gained or resolved the other night. The dynamics have not changed. Do not think for a second you caused her to worry by letting her know you "were on to her". She still holds all the power, and she'll continue to hold it until you reach the place you are done fretting over how to treat a W you suspect of having an affair.
Do not be impressed with her coming home and putting on her dutiful act of W and mom. It was not her way of making baby steps.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
So just forget her, right? And move on. Treat her like shes a cashier at a store? It was just my anger the other night because i saw the facebook photos, etc. Thank you
Last edited by Cadet; 06/19/1801:01 PM. Reason: Start a new thread message
After suggesting to my wife that im on to her and that she should move out, ive seen a change in her behavior. Discussion was Sunday night and Monday she went to grocery store, cooked and cldaned. Also cooked and cleaned Tuesday.
This morning she met with a councilor to sort out whatver she is going thru and im sure her our marital sitch is front and center. We have a couple of trips planned the next few months, my son has a baseball tourny in NC and we will be moving my daughter into college in Sept. College trip booked and i just finished up sons baseball tourny booking. Final piece was deciding if wd wanted to drive or fly. Last week she said that she was thinking about going home early on Wed, tourny ends Friday, so she could save hed vaca time. (Im curious if she was thinking about making plans of her own). Today i found a really good deal on Flights so i texted her to let her know. Her response, minx you as she just got out of therapy, was; "only if you want me to go". My only response was "booked".
I dont know what to make of her change but i know that i asserted myself on Sunday night and told hed in no uncertain terms that if this all blowsup, that its on her and that the kids are staying with me and that im not putting on a unified front facade like she wants. Basically to act like its a mutual decision and that we both wanted it.
Im prepared for anything and im not falling victim to a be nice ploy so that i end up getting stabbed in the back. I hope the therapy and no more Mr. Nice Guy will bring meaningful change. I still love my wife and want to keep our family together. Way too much invested to let it go!!! Even though thats what im doing using the db method#
Go on the Newcomers home page and then click New Topic and start a new thread. Link this thread in the first post of the new one, and add the link to the new one here.
Added by Cadet
How to start a thread
I will use what Job wrote
First Click on Newcomers then:
Originally Posted By: job
Go to the top of the screen and there is a new topic box on the left hand side. Click on it and then you will open the window to create a new subject as well as a posting. It's the same way that you created this thread.
). You and the kids shouldn't go without food in the house just b/c she's too sorry to go to the grocery store. Use common sense on some of these. And, he!! no, don't ask her nicely. Does the woman not even know what her job is at home? If you've always done everything for the princess......then maybe she doesn't. 
Honestly, you nice guys! No wonder she doesn't respect you. (Assuming you have always done everything for her, or so that she didn't have to do it......which equals to the same thing). And, please don't tell me it's b/c you love doing all that work. Anyway, make sure you and your son have clean clothes and something to eat. As for telling her you aren't doing it any more........hummmm, don't you think she would figure it out? I do believe it might be the response if she gets pi$$y about it not getting done. Don't make a speech about it, just say it.
