new...need help understanding situation?

[sandi2]

At the core of a wayward W's heart is resentment and disrespect. Your W has held resentment for years. You remember sharing an incident where your W pulled up something from the past, and you were surprised that it still bothered her? This is an example of what I mean. Whether it is unmet emotional needs, unmet expectations, or hurts and disappointments......it is not resolved within her heart. She tries to push it down in order to keep going onward, but that thing is still there.....festering. Strange thing about resentment, it seems to breed more resentment quite easily. Eventually this deep resentment affects her feelings of respect for you as her husband and as a man. The woman is designed where her feelings of love for her H is tied to the level of respect she has for him. That's why when her respect is lowered, her loving feelings lower, as well.

A wife will try to talk about it to her H, but it is not in a language he understands, so the problem is never resolved. Over time, a rebellion begins to form, and her mindset begins to change. By the time she overtly rebels against her M, her H is completely dumbfounded.

WW's all have various degrees as to how they act out their rebellion. But, one thing they all seem to have in common is the ability to completely shock their trusting H. Just as you were so sure your W was not guilty of any behavior I had mentioned in my threads. Were you referring to continuous behavior? As long as the H will act like her friend and not push any buttons, and let her do anything she wants without any questions.......he won't get so much static from her. But just try putting your foot down, and you will see a different story!

After bdrop a few months ago we were actually getting along really well. I was hoping that maybe she would realize the benefits in staying married.

I am going to get very plain with you. If I sound snarky or harsh or whatever, I am not feeling that way toward you. I feel that way toward waywardness and how many H's are duped. First, I am going to tell you something that I already know you won't take as seriously as you should......but here goes: She is all about what benefits her most. Don't try to talk or persuade her into anything.....including staying in the M. You provide a nice standard of living, and are father to her children. There are probably other pro's that go along with being M to you, but I am going to get painfully honest here. You just don't do it for her anymore. Know what I mean? You don't excite her. You don't turn her on. You haven't in a long while. And before you start telling me about her cycle, I want you to understand that I am not talking about physically turning her on. Although important, I am talking about how a man can excite a woman when he is standing across the room from her, or talking to her on the phone, or just smiles at her. Chemistry! Attraction! Admiration! She doesn't feel it in the M any longer. She tried to tell you, remember? And FWIW, if she felt any of those feelings for you, she would have already been to a doctor about her cycle. All that stuff she's been telling you about not wanting to take meds or whatever, is b.s. But it works quite well at holding you at bay, right? She may not even be going three weeks out of the month........you aren't for sure. And while I am being plain.......those mood swings you put down as due to her cycle? I'd risk a monthly paycheck in betting those are not due to her cycle, but rather just old WW disrespect. I bet she doesn't show that moddiness around the guys at work.

Oh sure, telling the MC you want to work on better communication is fine for her.......as long as she can have her secrets and private life without your intrusion. She'll remain in the M and act like roommates, as long as she can continue going out whenever and wherever, and doing whatever with whomever. You see, what the MR doesn't provide......she'll get elsewhere. Therefore, she gets the best of both worlds. And being a man with nice guy syndrome, you'll keep making excuses for her.

Whenever a WW is in the sitch, the H has to use tough love.....if he ever hopes to have her heart.

Fast forward to last week, I accidentally discover that my wife recent applied to rent a house with my 3 kids and didnt tell me a thing. I was absolutely floored. Hurt beyone belief. I confronted her and she said that it was no big deal and that shes been looking periodically since we started having difficulty in our relationship. I reminded her about our agreement and asked why couldnt she tell me if things had changed? She dismissed it as no big deal and that she wasnt moving. She also layed blame on me again like she does typically when shes in the wrong and/or i catch her doing something.

This is what we call WW script. In other words, all WW's say practically the same thing, as if they were all reading the same script. A lot of their actions/behavior are script, also. Of course it is a big deal that she was secretly looking for another place to live, and to move your children! But the WW turns if off as "no big deal", you are just getting worked up for nothing....calm down. Yeah, right! You cannot trust her. Do not believe a single word that comes out of her mouth. Every word may not be a lie, but you won't know.....so you can't afford to believe or trust her. This is not the girl you M!! She will not honor commitments or agreements made with you. She has lied and betrayed you. You cannot deal with her like maybe you once did. It won't work b/c she has drastically changed. She is no longer logical, therefore, you can't reason with her. Neither can you nice her back. There is only one thing waywards respect, and that is strength.

So, Mr. Nice Guy..........you won't be able to sit in a MC session or have a nice chat with her and work out the issues that got your MR into this pathetic mess. However, you can change how you think & act, and stand a reasonable chance is saving your M. I strongly suggest you google nice guy syndrome and learn all you can about it.

Im really going thru a tough time. Not eating good, losing weight and stressed to the max. Is it possible i can salvage our marriage and do i even want to if shes having an affair? I know that i really loved my wife deeply and im sick to my stomach with the thought of her in someone elses arms! Any help is so very much appreciated....signed down n out!

((hugs)) I'm sorry if I spoke too roughly, but I want you to wake up and realize you cannot use some standard M program that is only wanting your money, or some dime store book on "how to make your M better" psychology. It doesn't work with a WW. Even MWD says in her DR that both spouses have to be willing to work on the M. I can tell ya, the WW ain't willing! Can you salvage the M? Well, I don't like the word, "salvage", but you might be able to create a new relationship. There is one huge requirement, though. It take b@lls. If you don't have b@lls, then forget it, b/c she will eat your nice guy ways for breakfast.

As for as your health is concern.......you can decide you are your own best friend and start taking care of you. Don't expect sympathy or concern from your WW. You will have to stop seeing and thinking of her as your old W, or it will drive you crazy.

You don't want her back b/c she feels sorry for you, or b/c she feels guilty, or b/c she can't make financially without you, etc. you want her back b/c she loves you and wants you.

You can decide you will learn how to fight in a whole new way. That's entirely up to you. I am not going to push you, b/c you have to decide if it's worth it. But if you decide you want to learn how........then stick with us. One thing.........you need to post regularly. When you don't post often, the situation is forgotten among the other dozens on the board. People lose interest. Posting often, keeps it fresh in our minds and interest. Plus, you can stay on top of what you need to be doing.

[fmly1st]

Lh,

Thanks again for everything. You also seem like a really good guy. Im going to give this everything i have. I hope we will have a chance to keep our family together. I want my kids and eventual grandkids to have that stability and closeness. Not be divided on holidays, step siblings, etc. I certainly dont knock anyone im that sitch because they are doing whats best for them and theid families. I just really love my wife and want to enjoy her company again. Thats the bottom line. I miss my freaking wife!!! And im sick, sick,,sick, at the thought that she might be with someone else! But im gearing up for the greatest challenge of my life. Ill keep you posted and please stay in touch!

Thank you

[ovrrnbw]

Rr17, thank you for replying and the comforting words of encouragement. I def need it. I understand about the friendship part, but what really makes it difficult is how close i am with her family, especially the parents. I have a better relationship with them then i do with my own.

And if we do follow thru with d, she will expect me to still participate in a lot of the normal family events. I will always be there for my kids and attend anything for them with dignity and respect. But i dont think i could just act a part for especially if shes having a ea or pa.

Just trying to take one day at a time. Thank you again for your thoughts

She doesn't get to have expectations for you if she leaves the family/marriage. Oh well.

[ovrrnbw]

Lh,

Thank you. That really jumped out at me. I realize now that i need to completely detach. Challenging part is we still live together and i dont want to leave my kids or home. But i will focus on GAL and really get myself engaged into some positive activities. What do i do when she wants to talk? I have an idea from reading Sandis rules but was just curious if you have anything to add? You seemed to really have a strong grasp of dbusting. And i greatly appreciate your input. Ty

Also, when she wants to discuss relationship and/or moving forward with divorce. And also if/when i confirm affair?

You could GAL with the kids involved too. New hobby?

If she talks about moving forward with divorce, just tell her that's up to her. End of story. You are not there to help with that in any way. Let her do that work, and if she is shaming you into it or getting rude then walk away.

[fmly1st]

Sandi,

Wow...i freaking needed that!!! I can sense in her everything you are saying. I can feel the resentment and lack of respect. And ill tell you one thing, i feel like i lost my mojo the last couple of years sitting here like a puppy dog. And thats not me. I grew up in a hard scrabble city where you had to fight for everything you wanted. And i was always confident around women and that would fuel even more confidence.

So tell me, what can i do starting tomorrow morning to change this course so she sees brass balls coming out my ears. I really am disgusted in myself that i allowed this to go on. And im disgustd that some stiff who puts pictures on facebook of himself working out is exciting my wife. I will fighg till my last breath to win this battle and have a better relationship thats sustainable to the day i die.

Ty Sandi, im so greatful that you are on this board!

[fmly1st]

Sandi2,

I will not be her lapdog anymore. Ive made it so easy for her to do as she please....im disgusted in myself! Grocery shopping, cleaningn taking cars of kids, dog, inside and outside of house,,etc. But i was wondering if you have any suggestions on how i can pass some of those responsibilities to her. For example, grocery shopping, should i just tell her that im not doing anymore. My fear is if i dont do it nor say anything she wont go and my kids will be coming home to nothing? Even cleaning the house, she does not lift a finger and she leaves trash everywhere. For,example she,has used tissues and umpteen empty water bottles piled up along cobwebs that she will not so anything about. I dont for awhile until its too much to look at and then i cave. She has flex hours, but she decides to sleep late and go in after 9:00 am every morning and doesnt get home till 7:30 8:00 everynight. She probably does that on purpose so she can spend time with this guy i suspect at work. Can i suggest she go in earlier because i will not be available to make dinner and clean for her?

As always, thank you

[sandi2]

Okay, great to hear you say so! The sooner you can change the dynamics in the relationship, the better. I'll list a few things you can start immediately.

* You must stop all actions that make you appear as though you are trying to persuade her. That includes any talks about the relationship (which will be hard, but you can do it).
* Don't inquire about her plans or her desires for the future. Other than logistics for the children, or something along those lines, don't ask questions about what she is going to do.
* Don't ask how she feels or if she is upset, worried, angry, etc. Don't ask about her cycle. Ignore the moodiness, but if she disrespects you in front of the kids, ask to speak in private (so as not to talk in front of the kids) and then tell her you won't tolerate being disrespected in front of the children. Keep it short and clean, then leave the room.
* Don't accommodate your WW. I don't know how entitled she may act, but do not rearrange your daily schedule or plans to fit whatever she wants that day. Don't wait/serve her hand & foot. Don't be her personal assistant. Don't clean up her mess. Don't do all the chores.
* Stop fearing her anger and her moods. Don't do all the house chores, trying to keep her in a civil mood, or anything you habitually do to keep the peace with her. Let it go, and let her rip. Do your part, but don't do everything thinking it will help her by lightening her load. If you don't understand, let me know and I will say more about it.
* Don't try to fix the things around her, trying to make things easier on her.....hoping this will help the relationship.
* Regard your WW in the way you would treat a woman who was there for room & board. Use this as your stencil when you interact with her, and if you aren't sure how to respond to something.
* When the children are present, try to act as normally as possible in your family interactions (like at the dinner table), but don't over do it. You are not overjoyed at your W's behavior, so don't over-kill with pleasantries.
* Don't find reasons to play happy family with your WW. She may try to take advantage and cake eat. As long as you are under the same roof, a certain amount of cake can't be avoided. However, don't plan some family activity just so you can have her company. Know what I mean? She needs to wonder if you even desire to be in her presence. You are trying to change the dynamics, and she has to wake up and see that her H is no longer crazy about her and doesn't particularly desire her company.......since she has become wayward. He can take her or leave her. See what I mean? In other words, you need to act as if you are letting her go.......and, not reluctantly. None of this is said in words. It's all attitude and actions. Forget having long talks where you explain all of this to her.
* Stop giving explanations to her about your actions, decisions, etc. Don't repeat thing you've already told her. Don't tell her you don't want a D or separation, b/c she needs to wonder if you want out of the M. This changes the dynamics when she stops seeing you as the one she's dumping.....and sees the possibility of you dumping her.

Is your WW aware that you suspect something? If not, don't say anything just yet. Get your ducks in order, financially & legally. Know where you stand, should a S/D come.

My big concern is that she is getting angry when i bring up this other guys name. It happened last week as well. Is this because shes feeling guilty over something?

Yes, it's guilt. Stop bringing up OM's name. That's not how to deal with things. If you want to know if they've had an PA, or if it's some different guy......you may have to hire a private detective, and even then, it may not be solid proof. Reading her phone texts would probably reveal a lot more. If you don't have access, then you don't. Some H's cannot deal with the information they uncover. Many H's say an affair is a deal breaker, until they are faced with the facts. So, don't make any proclamations to her, thinking it will carry weight on her decisions......b/c it won't. Neither can you guilt her out of an affair and back into your arms. If you want intel and can get it, that's your decision to make. I just caution you about getting hooked on reading her messages, etc. it happens with H's all the time.

From this point onward, you can no longer say & do things to see how she reacts. It does not work, and the H just makes himself look like a dope. H's have a natural urgency to protect/secure what is theirs, including their W. He sees the OM as a predatore, which may be true.......but the OM is not forcing anything on your WW. Hard to swallow, but you have to know that she is not that innocent girl you fell in love with. I want you to stay balanced in your thinking and don't get too focused on the OM and think he is the problem. He is a result of the problem that exsisted in her heart. Even if OM leaves the picture, your W will still be wayward and she'll pursue someone else. Her wayward mindset is the problem here.

I want you to be prepared for the worst. She is going to say mean things to you. She's going to accuse you of things that aren't true. She's going to lie. She's going to hurt your feelings.....and break your heart. Every time you open up or initiate a R talk.......you will get more hurt, and nothing will be resolved. It often pushes the WW to take the "next step", which to her means a separation of some type. So, no talks! BTW, do not agree to an in-house separation, and do not agree to sleep anywhere else but the MBR (marital bedroom). If she doesn't want to sleep with you, then she can sleep elsewhere. She'll get nasty, b/c society has taught men that they should give the softer female the best bed. Well, forget that rubbish. The faithful spouse should stay in the marital bedroom, if at all possible.

Fyi... i really need help on gal, detaching, validation, etc. I a committed to savinv my marriage but i just dont want to be a lapdog at home if and/while shes having an affair.

Okay, we can help you with it. First, I want to warn you about validating a WW. I know, you hear it all through the threads here on the board, and I didn't say anything until recently. Unless you are as naturally talented as Wonka and Another Stander with validating........I would not worry about doing it too much. My reasons for this is based on the mindset of the WW. To her, having a H who is trying to validate her every time she says something makes him appear too eager to be her appeaser. I wish I could think of a good anology to explain what I mean. If he doesn't have the natural know-how, he's going to sound as if he just a$$ kissing......and he's going to do it waaaay too much. When I read posts from a LBH describing an interaction with their WW, he'll usually add that he validated. Most times, this is a guy who never validated her in his life.......and suddenly he's validating his wayward W every time she opens her mouth? He's going to appear like a "Yes Dear" kind of H, which WW's hate. So, please be very careful about validating her. I'm not suggesting there is never a time & place, but just be cautious.

As for GAL.........let me first explain it does not mean you go looking for other women, or hang out at bars/clubs. It's whatever you enjoy doing. Do you have a hobby, or did you have one before you got so busy with life? Maybe you've considered one. Are you into sports, travel, dance, puzzles, digging for artifacts, exploring new places, watching action movies, hanging out with your buddies, camping, fishing, hunting.......or something you stopped doing b/c your W didn't enjoy it. This is not about her. GAL is all about you, and setting time apart to do whatever is enjoyable. At first, your heart may not be in it....at all. But this is as important as eating and working out. Every successful DBer has said GAL contributed to them being able to move forward with, or without, their spouse. It is a healthy distraction, and it helps you rediscover yourself as an individual, build your self confidence, and makes you more interesting as man. If your life has narrowed down to work & family, and old friends have gradually fell by the wayside.......your world has become too small.

Your commitment to saving your M has absolutely nothing to do with getting a life. You can be M and do something enjoyable for yourself. So, find something you want to do and put it on your personal calendar. Don't just wait for a convenient time, b/c it won't happen. A word of warning.......your WW will become curious about you GAL. She'll ask lots of questions. My advice is to not be obvious, as if you want her to notice you are getting dolled up and going out. You aren't trying to make her jealous. You aren't trying to imply you have someone you are seeing. That's not the point of GAL. On the other hand, you aren't accountable to your WW, so you be the judge of how much information you give her. Never lie, but if you don't want to tell her too much, then give vague answers to her questions. Just stay balanced and don't get rediculous.

The bottom line is the WW will want to know everything about you GAL. Like, what, where, when, and who with. She especially wants to know who you'll be with or who you saw while GAL. But.......she's fired you as her H! So, she doesn't get all those little information packets, like in the past. You may see how she thinks it is okay for her to have secrets and private friends, but she doesn't think the same rule applies to her H.

[fmly1st]

Sandi2,

Yes she is aware that i suspect something. Just from the conversations weve had and things ive discovered, she knows that i know we are dangerously close. And as i mentioned, i mentioned the possible OM and the various interactions including with her best friend, how that really struck a nerve because she layed into me in a viscious way!

Im going to take your advise and not mention OM anymore, but i absolutely want/need to find out. Im just really bothered by her trying to attribute the demise of our marriage to me and she takes no responsibility whatsoever. I know that this is typical of a ww but it doesnt alleviate my frustration and disappointment. Probably the wrong way to think, but i feel that if the truth comes out she will at least have to acknowledge and maybd that will help to accelerate our recovery.(obviously we have to do a lot of work too)
Starting with me getting my respect back.

Just to maks sure that im clear on doing everything for her. I should stop doing everything but just my share and leave the rest? Ehat should i do if she doesnt do her part. For example, grocery shopping...obviously that has to be done at some point? Should i say something to her, ask her nicely, or just let her know that im not doing it?

Thanks again Sandi2. Ill keep posting as things move along.

[fmly1st]

Need help lifting my spirita while im in my wifes presence. Sandi2 mentioned how my wife will be able to pick up on the energy i project. I dont want to seem like im depressed and sad...which i am. The thought of my wife not wanting me anf potentially being with someone else is really making me sick. Im working on Gal and standing my ground with her. But seeing her get all decked out to see god knows who is killing me!!! Im going to do everything humanly possible to turn this around by doing the things that i learn from this site. I hope and pray i can do it! Been with my wife since we were kids. And ive never stopped loving her!!!

[hongaku]

Need help lifting my spirita while im in my wifes presence. Sandi2 mentioned how my wife will be able to pick up on the energy i project. I dont want to seem like im depressed and sad...which i am. The thought of my wife not wanting me anf potentially being with someone else is really making me sick. Im working on Gal and standing my ground with her. But seeing her get all decked out to see god knows who is killing me!!! Im going to do everything humanly possible to turn this around by doing the things that i learn from this site. I hope and pray i can do it! Been with my wife since we were kids. And ive never stopped loving her!!!

Best advice on the energy projection is simple, but difficult to actually do at first. It boils down to fake it, until you make it. The more you fake it, the easier it will become to actually do it. I know how hard it is because I am having to do my fair share of it, too. But, you have to just make the decision to do it, and do it!
It will happen faster than you think once you take the first steps. But you have to get from 1 to 2 first.