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I’ve been with my husband for 16 years, married for 5, and no children. He was laid off 2 years ago and this greatly affected him. He’s had a goal to make more and be in a higher position to stick it to his old job ever since but has not been successful. I was supportive during his time off work, and once he had found a good job (not his goal job) and was comfortable in it, I started having issues with my work. I expected the same support I gave, but received the exact opposite. Was told I had to stay in a difficult situation until I found something comparable. This hurt me more than I could imagine, and we started to become distant. The distance grew when I found a job that made me happy, while he still had not found his goal job.
This past spring a new young girl started working at his job. He’s her manager, and the “team” would frequently go out for lunches, drinks after work etc. He spoke about how great she was constantly, and even started imitating things she liked and asking her opinion about clothes, food, and other things.
Obviously this attention he was giving her upset me, and I started having anxiety and panic attacks. He couldn’t handle my reactions when he said he was constantly assuring me nothing was going on, but I would find more of the same fun flirty messages.
My anxiety was something else he couldn’t support. He got sick for a little while, had to be off work And things were good for awhile. Then he returned to work and continued on with her.
He talked about getting a divorce, because I was too much to handle. I suggested some time away from each other and we agreed to separate for a bit, because his actions were severely affecting my health. While separated he became depressed and said this wasn’t what he wanted. We agreed to have him move back home after 5 weeks. In the 2 weeks he has been home my anxiety has returned. We’ve had 3 huge blow ups due to this girl. She called to get help on work one night at 8:30pm while we were spending time together and he actually went to help her, I saw him out for lunch with her and 1 other person when he said he was taking the team to lunch, and I found wHe thought he was taking care of things, but I would still find them going out for lunches, and inappropriate messages. It was clear she wasn’t pulling back and there was nothing he could to make her respect him as a manager again.ork messages of her desperately trying to connect with him by making him laugh, begging for a phone call, and being unprofessional.

I’ve tried to do a 180 and make it seem like it doesn’t bother me... but every time I see something I can’t handle it. Every time I try to talk to him, he says I’m attacking him. And then when I don’t say anything he says I’m being distant and cold. I don’t know how to get him to understand his relationship with this girl is really affecting me. He says I’m crazy, and that nothings going on, but no employee speaks to their manager the way she’s talking to him. And he just lets her. He doesn’t say to stop, but when I want to talk or vent I get told to stop.
While we were separated things were good. I didn’t know what he was saying or doing with her, and because he was lonely and missing home he didn’t participate in being inappropriate. But now that’s he is back and home and comfortable again, I’m worried we will end up separating again.

I can’t ignore the relationship, because I feel like that would give him the ok to continue on like that.... I don’t know what else to do.

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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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SarahW Offline OP
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Thank you so much for your quick response. I will definitely read through the articles and your suggestions.
I should mention that I regularly go out with friends (just dinners, shopping, etc) not drinking or late nights. This has been a source of contention with him. He feels that because I do this, he should be able to go out with his work “friends” and drink and stay out late. If I make plans without him, he gets sour and distant. Which I fear will drive him to this other girl.
I’ve started going to gym classes 3 times a week, started meditation 2 weeks ago, and have been treating myself. But when I get stressed, eating becomes a chore and I constantly feel sick.
I think the hardest part will be to detach. I was able to do it while we were separated.. but having him around is just a constant reminder of how he’s making me feel.
Thanks for your support! And I’ll definitely be reading through other posts

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Ms Sarah,

I don't post here much anymore, but I still visit my people around here, and I just happened to read your post. I cannot not reply because it hits too close to home! If you know me at all, I am going to spit some truth and it may be hard to read, and you may not like it, but I am going to tell you some things that I wish I could go back and tell my old self before my situation got BAD. Very BAD.

A little background; I am married to a (now recovering) Mr Nice Guy. If you don't know what that means, read about them. Wolf in sheep's clothing is how some put it. About 8 years ago, it came to light that a female coworker was paying him a lot of attention. He was her superior and he had very poor boundaries. She would tell him her problems, ask him for support/help about work and nonwork, and she would even text him outside of work. She tried very hard. She didn't get very far because he wasn't even interested.

We still argued about her though. A lot. He didn't seem to understand that his responsibility was to create boundaries with her. And he didn't do that for several years. She could do/say whatever she wanted, but as a married man, it was his responsibility to say, "I am not comfortable talking about this now," or "please only text me about work related things during work hours," ect. Now, years later, he can see 100% what the problem was and that HE ALLOWED it. I tried in every way I knew how, for years, to get him to see this, and he did not.

So this was my first red flag that something was up with my marriage. And there were no lunches, flirty texts, or a fear of them having an A. Just my sense that he had poor boundaries with her and women in general. Forward a couple years later, and our M got hard, and life got hard, which results in another woman coming around. This time, it was someone we both knew well, and this time, he took the bait. They had an EA for a long while, we separated, and then they had a full on PA for 10 months. My life was turned upside down. Unlike many stories here, my H did come back and we did reconcile, and more years have passed (you can read my own threads if you are interested). So I am here to tell you what I think from that perspective.

Your H is having an affair, either an EA or PA, and if not now, he will most likely very soon. I am sorry. It's the worst pain ever! I know, I lived it for years. Unfortunately tho, you cannot "get him to see what he is doing." You cannot control him and what he does. This is the most important thing I am telling you: you cannot show him the light and you cannot control what he does. It's a very hard pill to swallow.

You can however control you and what you will allow. Boundaries are described as drawing a circle around YOURSELF (not them), and then you decide what you allow in your circle. I don't know any sane woman that would be okay with continuing a marriage, and living/sharing a bed, with a man that was disrespecting her in this way. Clearly you are not okay with it either. The most valuable lesson I have learned in the last several years is to trust my gut. So please, trust yourself over anyone.

So what do you do now? That is the part that only you can decide. What does your circle include? The part of your sitch that gave me pause was that you describe how much he did not like being separated. My hope for you is that him risking his M (and you) is not the price of admission he is willing to pay to continue his A with her. She is still perhaps an unknown.

If you want my advice, and I am telling you what I would do, knowing what I know now, I will tell you. And yes, I made a lot of mistakes! Please do not think that by taking a step back from him and the M that he will think you are okay with his A and you are allowing it. DBing does not feel intuitive, but those of us that have come out on the other side can now see that yes, it does work. The idea is that you are going to save yourself and your sanity first, and that you hope, he will realize your worth (as you realize your own worth) and then he decides he does not want to lose you.

So where do you start and what do you do?

1. Read all of Cadet's HW.
2. Read all of Sandi's rules and you follow all of them. If you mess up, shake it off, and start over the next morning.
3. Take a giant, huge step back from him, the M, asking about him and what he is doing, you ask NOTHING ABOUT HER, and you stay away from him and this toxic situation. For now. And if he tries to come at you, all you do is listen, listen, listen. If he wants to know why you are not engaging with him or answering, you only have one response. "Something just doesn't feel right for me. I have a lot to think about."

Will he be confused, or worried, or think you are pulling away? Maybe, hopefully, but really, that doesn't matter. If he is going to continue this A, he will do it anyway. You cannot stop him or save him. You can however save you and your sanity and remain the better option. This is a looonnnnnggggg and slllooowwww road. Stay with us.

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Sarah, I just read this thread by Meg24 and there is some excellent advice. Her sitch has some differences, but the advice is spot on.

Please go to her thread, start at the beginning, and read the advice by Accuray, Anotherstander, and artista. It all applies to you as well!

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2780020&page=1

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Hi Blu,

Thank you so much for sharing. It's nice to see there is a light at the end, but I know it'll be a struggle to recover. I've been reading Meg's post and can feel her pain. I posted a bit about my relationship on her topic, but figured I should post here for reference so others can get the full story.

My H said I was the source of all his anger and problems. I definitely believe it is a MLC as one minute he's talking about buying a motorcycle and moving out, the next he's talking about having kids (but with who if I cause all his problems?!?!)

I unfortunately found out how much effort and time he had invested in this OW instead of me. He had gotten an increase at work, and had been secretly taking the money for 3 months while we were in counseling working on our relationship.

In counseling he would be responsive and agree, try for one day, and then feel like he didn't have to try. The counselor actually called him out for his inability to decide what he wants and how he is clearly disregarding what I am asking him and telling him I need. She said he needs to figure out his out situation first before he can commit to us again. I found out he was saving up for an apartment. I begged.. And cried and cried. But he turned even more bitter and cold and said some horrible things to me. I asked him to leave his job for me, to choose me over whatever was happening with this girl at work (he still says nothing was/is happening, but clearly it isn't a professional relationship).. And he told me work was more important to him. This completely broke me, and it was at this point in the beginning of January that I started DB.

I called his bluff on the moving out bit. Even helped him find a temporary place. I limited contact, refused to reach out, did my own thing, started working on my own mental health. I had developed anxiety and panic attacks during our issues between Sept-Dec. I said I would try to be there for him if he really needed me, but that I couldn't be his buddy.

It didn't take long for him to realize how lonely he was. By the end of the first week he was actually pretty depressed and was admitting that i wasn't the cause of his problems and stress. I held my ground, and he went to individual counseling and actually was prescribed AD.. He didn't want to take them at first, but he found his negative feelings were too strong. He kept asking me to come home, but I kept reminding him this is what he wanted.

After 5 weeks he returned home and promised to be a different man. That lasted 3 days. Once he was feeling better on the AD, work was better, and he was comfortable at home again, low and behold I see him out for lunch with the OW and another coworker. He never once asked me out to lunch or tried to make plans with me. He denied it being an issue, said it was just lunch (the day after Valentine's Day) with his team... When half the team wasn't there. The next week I find a conversation between the 2 of them. You can tell she's trying hard to get a reaction out of him. Trying to joke around, asking for him to call her, and being extra friendly. For the most part he didn't reciprocate, but he never told her to stop.

This threw me for a loop. My anxiety and panic attacks have returned, as has the crying. I was doing so well when he was not in the house, but his return has us right back to the beginning. He started saying I was overreacting, crazy, causing him stress. He's been rude and mean all over again. Like he forgets all of January and what it's like to be alone. Twice in the last 2 weeks he's made a comment about ending our relationship.

So after joining the forum yesterday and reading through posts, I've started detaching again, but I know it will be harder living in the same house. This weekend I told him I needed space and booked a quick trip to Florida. He asked if I wanted him to come too, and I said no. Already he's been nicer and trying to be friendly with me.

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Actually OW don't really matter. This particular one may be a Mata Hari type. There was a poster here called Pink whose WH was obsessed with one of those. They are a particularly nasty type causing disruption to feed their egos. Plus a work dynamic with a subordinate can set him up for accusations of sexual harassment. In these circumstances he may lose his job and find it impossible to get a reference. There is no doubt that colleagues at work will know too, an open secret. Employers don't condone this type of stuff as it opens floodgates. Weinstein and all that.....

This is about WH facing the reality of who he is and where he has reached in his life by his own efforts.

He may need to change employers to put this behind him before he gets the push. That's for him.

I am going to state for the record I don't believe in MLC, it isn't in the DSM as a disorder. It appears to be a particular set of entitled behaviours. These behaviours disrespect you and your M.

This DB process is for you to concentrate on you. This is your time to work on you, to set goals for you. To be a friend with WH and perhaps date him.

Blu offers sound advice on this as she walked the talk.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


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Hello

One of the hardest parts of dealing with and recovering from affairs are due to the gaslighting. Please google gaslighting and affair or gaslighting and addiction. It might give you better insight regarding your panic attacks and anxiety. (We have them because we know something is off with our partners and how we are being treated and then these reactions get used against us to continue the gaslighting cycle)

Staying with him right now is dangerous for your soul. For marriage and reconciliation to work both people have to be in it 100%.

I agree with blu wave. It is impossible for you to get your ex to see anything. You are looking at things from a perspective of someone trying to save their marriage and think he is too. He is not.

His perspective is as Vanilla says someone feeling entitled right now. He is destroying you to justify this entitlement. And if you stay with him he will continie to villify you to further justify nehaviors that are not normal in a healthy partnership. HIS BEHAVIORS ARE NOT NORMAL IN A HEALTHY PARTNERSHIP. Any validation will only give him further proof you are wrong and weak and he is in the right and desirable. You are right to get away from him and take care of yourself. You cant get him to see your perspective. Dont try. It will firther your anxiety.

I also do not believe in MLC. I think often times we just dont know who a person is at their core until they are pit to the test. These things (affairs, walking out) usually come at or after life stress. Job loss, death, health issues, children. These people are fair weather friends at the core. And it just takes bad weather to see it. They were never truly committed to marriage.

When they leave and come back, all it usually takes is another life stress for them to leave again. So evaluate why you fighting for this to work.


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Hello and welcome! You've gotten some great advice from Blu, Vanilla and Juju and of course the great boilerplate stuff Cadet posts to new people.

First please try to understand that most of your marital issues are probably rooted in HIM and not YOU. We all come here throwing ourselves under the bus, but often we're just along for our WAS's wild ride.

Originally Posted By: SarahW

Obviously this attention he was giving her upset me, and I started having anxiety and panic attacks. He couldn’t handle my reactions when he said he was constantly assuring me nothing was going on, but I would find more of the same fun flirty messages.


This is NOT your imagination. He is engaging in inappropriate behavior for a married man. You should not pander to it, you should firmly put your foot down (I'm trying not to suggest you put it somewhere else, LOL!)

Quote:
He talked about getting a divorce, because I was too much to handle.


Yes how dare you not allow him to have girlfriends!

Quote:
I suggested some time away from each other and we agreed to separate for a bit, because his actions were severely affecting my health. While separated he became depressed and said this wasn’t what he wanted. We agreed to have him move back home after 5 weeks.


First you absolutely did the right thing telling him to get out. Second, 5 weeks was too soon. He was just starting to feel the ramifications of his actions, but he didn't feel them enough for true remorse to set in. You should have insisted on a couple of months of counseling as a condition of him returning.

Quote:
She called to get help on work one night at 8:30pm while we were spending time together and he actually went to help her, I saw him out for lunch with her and 1 other person when he said he was taking the team to lunch, and I found wHe thought he was taking care of things, but I would still find them going out for lunches, and inappropriate messages.


Clearly this is unacceptable behavior. Don't let him gaslight you into thinking it's all in your head. Do read up on gaslighting as Juju suggested because it can make you feel like YOU are going crazy when you are the victim of it.

Quote:
I’ve tried to do a 180 and make it seem like it doesn’t bother me...


Not something you want to do a 180 on. Not at all. Doing a 180 is doing the opposite of your own bad behavior, not being accepting of your spouse's bad behavior.

Quote:
I don’t know how to get him to understand his relationship with this girl is really affecting me.


Kick him out. You've tried to communicate with him, he refuses to listen. He's like a stubborn rebellious child and the more you try the further down he will bring you. For any chance of saving your M and getting your "real" H back, you've got to end it for now.

Quote:
I should mention that I regularly go out with friends (just dinners, shopping, etc) not drinking or late nights. This has been a source of contention with him. He feels that because I do this, he should be able to go out with his work “friends” and drink and stay out late. If I make plans without him, he gets sour and distant. Which I fear will drive him to this other girl.


People in healthy relationships engage in relationships with others of the same sex (like you) NOT the opposite sex (like your H). And they do it with the APPROVAL of a loving spouse, because a loving spouse knows it is healthy and will only strengthen their bond. Your H is a hot mess and is trying to keep you off balance. Gain back your clarity and focus.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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