Remember, a 180 degree means the opposite. I'm not sure if you were stating intended 180's, or listing goals. But whatever it was, maybe it will help you stay on track.
Let me say something in addition to what has been said about boundaries. It's just like the dictionary defines it. A boundary is "a line that marks the limits of an area; a dividing line".. Whether it's countries or individuals, most have a boundary. With personal boundaries we have a limit as to what we will tolerate from others. It's like having an invisible line drawn around us to protect our feelings......and especially our self respect. If that line is disrespected, then we will react in some manner. For instance, if a stranger tried to harm you, you would do something to protect yourself. You would fight back, run for cover, call the police, or something. You would not just stand there and do nothing. What do you do when your WW shows bad behavior, embarrasses you, or shows disrespects toward you? (Please don't say you run for cover). Do you pretend it isn't happening? Do you let it slide? Tell yourself you are being the bigger person by letting her chew on you without any consequences for her? When people are not met with consequences, they usually don't stop their disrespectful behavior.
Most of us have a limit to disrespect. There is just so much disrespectful words and deeds we are going to allow, before we respond with some type of action. This is how boundaries work. Say for example your W calls you on the phone and starts yelling at you, cursing, etc. You can state your boundary by saying, "I will not tollerate you yelling and cursing at me". Then you state the action you'll take if it continues. "If you continue yelling and cursing, I will disconnect the call and will not talk with you until you can speak respectfully". It is important that you understand that when the boundary is not honored, you are the one that does an action. If it is not some level of consequence for the offender, then it is not going to be effective. Don't state a boundary that you are not fully prepared to back up. Most WW's will test the H, just to see if he will back up what he says.
I haven't seen as much lately, but for a while there were newcomers learning about boundaries, and I suppose they got in a hurry and did not get all the information. A popular example of a boundary was, "I will not live in an open M". So, these newcomers couldn't wait to use that boundary with their cheating WW's. However, they had the misconception that stating the boundary fixed the problem. It doesn't. Remember that a WW is filled with disrespect for her H, so the chances she will honor his boundary, are not great. Unfortunately, these newcomers did not hear the part about enforcing a boundary. So, when the WW's did not end their affairs, the H's ate their words, b/c they were not ready to enforce what they had said.
I caution any newcomer to be sure they fully understand how it works, before they start crowing about their boundaries. Nothing makes the H look as weak, as to loudly crow like a rooster, but won't back up his words with action. So, how would you enforce a boundary your W did not honor? That is something you have to decide.
Some people only state the boundary, and not the action they will take if the boundary is dishonored. That works, too, if the action is strong enough the other person has no doubt in why you did it.
I am not the best, but here a few examples:
Example: The WW is belittling her H at the dinner table in front of the children. The H tells the children to get their coats b/c he is carrying them out (without their mother). Then he tells his W, "I will not tolerate you disrespecting me in front of my children". He leaves her there while he takes the children to eat elsewhere. I know you can shoot holes in this one, but it's just to give you an idea of how it works.
Example: The H and his WW are having dinner in a restaurant. She belittles him or is rude to the waitress, or does something to embarrass him. He says to her, "I will not stay here and be embarrassed by your bad behavior". Then he immediately pays the bill, walks out of the restaurant, and leaves her sitting alone. She has to call a cab, or whatever, to get home the best way she can.
(Walking out and leaving her, works when they are almost anywhere else. He just needs to consider any risks/danger involved).
Example: The WW refuses to end her affair. The H says, "I will not stay in a M with three people. If you continue your affair, I will prepare for the next step" (separation or divorce). She can choose to continue her affair, but he is telling her what he will do.
Example: The H and WW are in the car. While he is driving, she proceeds to throw a tantrum. He pulls the car over to the side of the road and tells her she can get out or behave like an adult, but he will not tolerate tantrums.
Like I said, I'm not that good at making up examples, but I hope you catch the point of boundaries and how to enforce them, if/when needed.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
This is getting so difficult. I spoke with her about the boundary of not criticising or disrespecting me in front of the children and I said that "while we are still married and living under the same roof as Husband and Wife I will not accept you criticising me or namecalling me or showing any other lack of respect in front of the children" she then said that I had been showing her a lack of respect for all of our marriage" basically getting angry at me. She then said that "I am treating her like a POS and I can't go on like this" and I said that I am not criticising or showing you direspect now so I expect the same" she then said that I am treating her like a doormat and I cant live like this" to which I said "I cannot control you or your reaction, but a I refuse to be take unfair criticism" she them said I was pushing her away"
I should also point out she is ill atm with a chest infection and is laid up in bed, so it may be best to hold off for a while....?
M(41), W(37) S (6) D (4) S (2) M-8, T-12 W "I don't love you, I am in love with another man" "I don't know you anymore"
Exactly. It’s one thing to say “I’m not going to tolerate being disrespected.”
But I you can’t expect HER action to change based on what you say. So if you won’t tooerate it, what is our recourse? For example, you can then say “this conversation is done. We can resume later when you are being respectful.” And hen just walk away.
But you can’t say “I won’t be disrespected and then just stand there as she disrespects you.
I read the reply after it happened- yes it was at home and she started shouting in front of the children. I said later that "While we are at home I need to feel that you won't criticise me or belittle me in front of the children, and if you do that I will have to leave the room"
Now this is because we are still under the same roof and she has yet to talk to me about what she wants for the future, she is still saying on the one hand that she wants to save the M but then on the other hand she then drags up the past by saying things like "You've shouted at me and disrespecting me for the last 8 years and I am meant to just forget it" to my shame I reacted and said she was "living in the past and if she continues to carry this resentment then that is your choice not mine"
The bottom line is, she says she wants the M to work but won't talk R, she is due to go to counselling this week- but I am not sure if she will- The OM she had an A with is still friends on FB with her- and I know the don't believe what she says and half of what she does etc. but if she tells me, how do I respond to that?
I feel like I am being strung along until *she* decides what to do- but I can't go on like this- when I began 180's she accused me of not trying to make the M work and accused me of being cold, and I responded that "You told me you don't love me or even know me anymore and until I see that you are willing to work on the R I don't know how you want me to talk to you or treat you" and she said "Well being like you are and looking down your nose at me certainly isn't going to work"
She is still breastfeeding our youngest, and we are still sharing the same bed.
Yesterday evening she again started shouting at me after I told her that she needed to stop criticising me in front of the children, and then she started shouting, so I began to walk away to leave the house and she screamed "what are you abandoning your kids again?" I said no, and that I would take the children with me to my mums and they can sleep their she then lost it and threatened to call the police, I said I would never "take the children away but it is not fair that they have to listen to you shouting at me in front of them" things calmed down then and I went out later in the evening.
I am so lost right now, I don't know if I am coming or going. Stuck in the house without any real options- if I leave that will count against me if we do head down the D route. My only other option is to get a single bed and sleep in the spare room downstairs, as she is breastfeeding and needs to be close the baby.
I know many of you will think I am being weak, but I honestly don't know what to do
M(41), W(37) S (6) D (4) S (2) M-8, T-12 W "I don't love you, I am in love with another man" "I don't know you anymore"
I said later that "While we are at home I need to feel that you won't criticise me or belittle me in front of the children, and if you do that I will have to leave the room"
Okay, don't take what I say as critisisim, but more as an illustration. I am not here to attack you, but to help, if I can.
Always think ahead of how you will state a boundary. For example, you told her what you needed while "at home". But I would think you really want her to show respect for you in front of your children, wherever the family might be......in the home or away.
The next point is very important. If the consequences for her not honoring your boundary means nothing to her........then you have not accomplished much. First of all, you are telling not to do this "in front of the children", so mentally picture all of you in the same room together while she makes a belittling remark to/about you. If you walk out of the room......where are the children? Exactly, they are left in the room with their mother, and watching the entire scene where daddy is a whipped pup and runs into the next room. Do you think she really cares that you left out of the room? Do you think this a consequence so great that she will be careful how she speaks to you in front of the children?
Verbal disrespect in front of your children is very serious, b/c it perpetuates future disrespect in the M's of your children. They see mom doing this "to" dad, so that is their defining roles in male-female relationships. It teaches the daughters to treat their H in the same manner they saw mom treating dad. On the other hand, the sons learn to imitate the same behavior of their dad. So, do you see how it works in negatively influences their future relationships?
Some time back, I was talking to a H who had NGS about this very subject. He replied that he thought it made the kids angry at their mother and how they felt sorry for him. I almost fell out of my chair! He was so eat up with the NGS that he actually thought he was somehow progressing b/c his kids felt sorry for him. He totally missed the purpose and importance of how we teach children about respect and relationships through the role models they observe. Even if small children felt pity for him, it would soon change to disgust, b/c he did not have the backbone to change the dynamics in his relationship with their mother.
So, we will put on our thinking caps. You've already told her you would leave the room if she criticized or belittled you in front of the kids. Okay, so what if you not only left the room, but left the house......and stayed out until all the children were gone to bed?
I have noticed that you've mentioned a couple of times that your W is breast feeding, and the child is in your bed. Is she nursing the two-year old son, or is this a newborn? At first I wondered what breast feeding had to do with the situation, but if she is allowing the two-year old child to stay in the marital bed........it isn't b/c of the nursing. She is allowing a habit that will be difficult to break, not to mention what it is doing to the intimacy of the MR. Did the other children sleep in the marital bed until the next baby came along?
Please don't misunderstand, I am not into the pros & cons of mothers nursing their children past a certain age. That's up to them. However, I am not pro-nursing in the marital bed. Get up and go sit in the rocking chair and nurse. I am not in favor of having any child sleep in the same bed with the parents. I have known of too many cases where the mother would intentionally use it as a wall between her and the H. Were you the one who said she was not interested in sex, except when she wanted to have another baby? Can you see a pattern here? This is not healthy for the child, and it certainly isn't healthy for the MR.
Don't let her use the nursing as an excuse for allowing the child to sleep in your bed. Don't accept "nursing" as an excuse for anything else she might throw at you. I suggest you reclaim the bedroom for what it was designed. Not a baby nursery, but a marital bedroom.
Well, you have a real challenge on your hands. Mainly, b/c you have allowed these dynamics to exist in the MR and in your home. She rules the roost, and you bring home the money. It doesn't have to be that way.......and you will never have a happy MR as long as it stays that way.
I can't remember if I have mentioned the subject of male dominance to you. There are two subjects you desperately need to read about. 1) The nice guy syndrome and 2) male dominance in the MR.
I very seldom make a promise to anyone. But I think I can promise you that these two areas are the foundation of the unhappy issues in the MR. A wife does not respect a passive nice-guy, and she doesn't want a submissive man in her bedroom. If that is what she has....then she has to take on the male role, and it kills all of the attraction in a male-female MR. She is not attracted to the man you have become, and she does not feel feminine toward you in the ways that really count. She has to admire you, in order to desire sex with you. Secretly, she wants a man who is sexually dominant in the bedroom, and she wants him to step up and be the man not only in the MR, but in the home/family as well. She is not going to tell you all of this, but I will.
Like a lot of other women, I used expressions like, "Be a real man". Then one day a guy asked me what does it mean to be a real man. He wanted to know what that picture looked like. I broke down a cried. I have learned in the recent years, too many young men truly do not know what a woman means when she says, "Be a real man". FWIW, I have written and deleted.......and written again and deleted my opinion as to why this has happened. However, it sounded very politically incorrect, and Lord knows I wouldn't want to be guilty of that. . Besides, it is not a new problem on the face of the earth, unfortunately.
Anyway, I hope you will google these two subjects and study it. Let me know what you think about it.
((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Major but sad update. After yesterday she was acting all weird with me when I got home from work. I have to fill in some paperwork which was upstairs in our bedroom and she immediately came upstairs to be in the same room as me, she asked me what I was doing and I told her and then she accused me of being secretive, she then started shouting and I asked her why she was being so angry and I asked her if she had anything to be secretive. I noticed she had left her phone on the side and I picked it up and asked her what she was hiding and as it was unlocked I checked the phone and I could see a message from her OM signed off with lots of xxx's and she had obviously deleted all the previous messages- the phones she uses are both mine and I said until you treat me with resepect I will keep hold of the phones. I said that we had agreed that I would not tolerate 3 people in our marriage and she had crossed that line. She then started shouting at me again and screamed "i want a D" i said that is her decision but I refuse to discuss anything while you are shouting at me, and I reminded her that I would take the necesary steps to protect myself and that I was going out. I didnt tell her where etc. But as I have been advised not to leave the marital home I came back and she was blaming me again. I told her if it is her decision to carry on the A then must accept her responsibilities, the 2 yo then started crying and she went upstairs and hasn't been down since. I grabbed a duvet from upstairs and I will be on the couch
M(41), W(37) S (6) D (4) S (2) M-8, T-12 W "I don't love you, I am in love with another man" "I don't know you anymore"
hello, mbe76... i am following your situation with deep interest and cannot keep my comments to myself any longer... my heart is breaking for you... why are you on the couch? she should be on the couch... as i have been reading your thread, i find myself boiling over... i am mostly upset with you... it has to be no coincident that so many nice guys just like you end up here...
you are not showing strength by saying you won't be disrespected but then are disrespected again and again... when you left the house, you should have stayed out longer... going away for a few hours is not the same as moving out--which i hope you do not do, btw... you should have given her the duvet and let her sleep on the couch... better yet, tell her to pack her things and go live with her parents--or anywhere else... and frankly, the two of them--your WW and OM--are making a mockery of the Church... that's all i have for now...
hello, mbe76... i am following your situation with deep interest and cannot keep my comments to myself any longer... my heart is breaking for you... why are you on the couch? she should be on the couch... as i have been reading your thread, i find myself boiling over... i am mostly upset with you... it has to be no coincident that so many nice guys just like you end up here...
you are not showing strength by saying you won't be disrespected but then are disrespected again and again... when you left the house, you should have stayed out longer... going away for a few hours is not the same as moving out--which i hope you do not do, btw... you should have given her the duvet and let her sleep on the couch... better yet, tell her to pack her things and go live with her parents--or anywhere else... and frankly, the two of them--your WW and OM--are making a mockery of the Church... that's all i have for now...
--artista
I do know that but I feel I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. I cannot force her to move out as she has the children and I cannot just take time off work at the drop of a hat- and I doubt her mum would take her in in any case. I know you say she is continuing to disrespect me and the M and she is. But honestly what can I do? I am staying at home tomorrow to discuss separation.
Saving some massive coming to her senses I feel like I have no other option. If i leave the M home which we both own that will count against me in any family decisions etc. They will say I have abandoned the f home.
M(41), W(37) S (6) D (4) S (2) M-8, T-12 W "I don't love you, I am in love with another man" "I don't know you anymore"
. Besides, it is not a new problem on the face of the earth, unfortunately.