Getting ready to move forward

[petri]

I'll open this up now. W said from early on that no matter how this ends she doesn't want to live in the house anymore(and she said the same about a week ago). She hates it and gets anxious in it. First the idea was for me to take the house for myself. But I can't afford it. She doesn't want it nor can she afford it. So the house goes for sale. Or do you think that I should just keep this arrangement going on until the end of times?

[sandi2]

When we talked about if we are willing to commit to our MR she said I don't know. She is afraid that everything will be the same for her. That I haven't changed and thus can't fullfill her needs. How in earth can I show her if she isn't willing to see?

Which of you asked if you or she was willing to commit to the MR? Why did the conversation even come up? I think you said she initiated, os if that's the case and if she only talked negatively about reconciliation......then it was one of two reasons that I can think. 1). She was temp checking you, or 2) She was trying to convince you to D her.

The fact that you are so upset over not knowing how to prove your changes and fulfill her needs......simply shows that your thinking is not straight, Petri. She has an OM! I don't know how long he has been waiting in the wings, but I take this as strong indication she does not want to resume a M with you. Unless a man was really a rotten H and his W was a saint, I don't know why he would think it was all about him improving to become good enough to deserve another chance.

And, it's not just b/c OM has shown up, but the fact she continues to make everything your fault. It's her mindset. As long as she is making you out to be the bad guy.......there is no convincing her things will be different. So you need to stop that type of thinking now.

Have you asked yourself why the heck she would tell you about the OM at this particular time? Your brother passes away, and she initiates R talks and complains about you, then dangles OM in your face and has the audacity to say she is afraid things would be the same? I don't know how you can even think this is about you not proving you've changed or showing her things would be different. But, maybe you haven't changed, Pete. Maybe you're still the man with NGS.

The best thing you can do to help yourself and have a ghost of a chance in saving the M, is to dump her. I don't know what you meant by this proves she is what she was before you M her, but I have to ask if it makes a difference for you. If it does, then stop with all the craziness of trying this or that to win her back. You have not won her. You won't win her, even if you R, you won't win her heart........b/c you aren't the only one who needs to change. Refusing to sell the house will do nothing to help your M, either.

You've been so focused on just reconciling that you act as if it doesn't matter what you get......just as long as you get her back. She KNOWS things won't be different, b/c her heart is closed to her H. She cannot have two men in her heart at the same time. Even if OM is just a f--- buddy, it prevents her heart from being opened for her H. Having a f--- buddy, is a pretty obvious sign she is not ready to be in a devoted M with you. She did not bring up the OM in conversation b/c she was wanting to R. She did nothing that sounded like a W wanting to R for the right reasons.

If you still want her, regardless, then let her see you dumping her. If you don't want her.....then dump her. Either way, you are more likely to get what you want.

Currently, you have too much pain on you. Your parents are grieving, too, so they may not be able to emotionally support you like you need. Maybe that is why you feel you need your W, IDK. IMHO, remaining under the same roof, even ever other week, is a horrible arrangement. She has another man! You won't be able to detach with her coming in to stay every other week. You couldn't do it sharing an apartment. Why would you insist on it? Why not sell the house, so you can move forward? Don't say it is for the kids, b/c it is awful for children to live in that environment where the parents are S but staying under the same roof. Children do just fine moving to another house, so don't use that excuse, either. I think you have clung to the house b/c it kept your W tied to you in some respect. Get out from under it.

[petri]

During this whole separation there has been pain after pain. Separation, filing D, telling it's all over, OM. It would have been easier if all would of happened in one crash.

But W wants to go to MC to talk. Clear things. Do I refuse or should I use this as an opportunity to dump her?

She said that she has been thinking if we should still give our MR a shot. Then there was the talk about commitment. And in this convo she said that mayde things would be different if stopped pretending to be something she's not.

[sandi2]

But W wants to go to MC to talk. Clear things. Do I refuse or should I use this as an opportunity to dump her?

What good will MC do, if she has OM? Most times, a WW will suggest MC, not to reconcile the MR, but more as a way of saying she tried everything and nothing worked. Some WW's find a counselor who is not pro-marriage, but a divorce counselor in disguise. So, my vote would be to tell her you are not interested in seeing a MC, or anything else, as long as she is involved with with someone else. Not to try and persuade or pressure her, but to shut this game down. If you tell her anything, tell her you are done. (Doesn't mean you feel that way, but feelings follow actions). Show some self respect.

You don't have to settle for crumbs, Petri. It sounds as if she is throwing just enough at your feet to make you beg. She starts a R talk, but then tells you how everything is your fault.....and oh yeah, she has a new f---- buddy, but then adds she has been wondering if she should consider give the M another shot? Well, I know what my answer would be, but you have to do what you feel is right is for you.

I think as long as you grab at the straws she throws out there, the less chance you'll ever have in R the MR. Besides, what would you have if you got her back? This makes you look too needy, too desperate, too eager. It's time you stopped agreeing to take left-overs. Learn to say, "No thanks", and you will discover how quickly she makes up her mind in what she really wants. Strange how that works! If she believes you are finished with her.......I think she'll pursue you. Of course, she'll have to try playing games at first, but when she sees you won't go along with it, she'll get serious.

TxHubby put up with his WW's unfaithfulness and pseudo reconciliation, while he rotted away in limbo. He saw no changes in her, until he was fed up and no longer cared what she did. He was finished. She begged him not to leave her. Last I heard, he was holding her feet to the fire. It took him a long time before he had the courage to let her go, but once he did......she went crawling to him.

Now, you won't get this advice from DB counselors. This is strictly my opinion. I'm not going to fall out with you if you don't follow it. I'm telling you what would have yanked me back into gear if my H would have done what I'm suggesting. From what I've read from other WW's, they agree. As long as the H jumps whenever the WW says "frog"........he will do a lot of hopping around, but he won't get very far with her.

When I suggested dumping her, I don't mean you tell her that's what you are doing. Your attitude shows her you are through with her game playing. Your actions show that you have a life apart from her. She doesn't see you caring, or torn up b/c she's toying with your feelings. You don't give her that chance. As far as you know.....she fell off the planet, and you are moving forward. Don't think she won't hear about how happy you are in your new life. Don't think little birds won't tell her how much you've changed and how some lady would be lucky to have you. It's attitude and actions. Stop with having talks, b/c it does not work.

Don't be mean or hateful, but you should decline her offers or suggestions of MC. You don't make threats, or blow off steam, lecture her, blame, or any of your usual coping techniques that fail. You simply stop showing any interest in her. You don't care about her men, her decisions, her behavior, or her life..........as far as she knows. Just let her go. My words are...."dump her". When you are truly emotionally detached, she'll know b/c she will feel it. So start detaching, for real.

Am I trying to get you divorced? No, not as long as you want to stay M. I am telling you what works from the viewpoint of a former WW.

Stay strong, Petri. ((hugs))

[petri]

Strong words again sandi. Thank you so much. But can I use the MC session to say "you are right. It is time to call it quits. There is nothing left to build on."

[Btrow]

Petri,

You know she doesn't want the marriage (right now) . Apparently you feel the same way (at the moment). Why waste money on MC if you already know the outcome. Do what Sandi says. You either tell her no MC while you are in a 3 person marriage or you simply "dump" her now if that is what you want to do.

[petri]

The MC is acrually free. We have free MC in Finland which is provided by church. The are professional marriage counslers.

[petri]

And sandi is probably right about the motive why she is going. She just wants her motives for D to be confirmed. But isn't it best if I tell her in presence of a marriage counsler that this is it. Since I already promised to go it would be inconsistent to back down.

[petri]

She wanted to go if it would make me feel better. So I cancelled it. I told her this M is over. "Yes it is".

[petri]

How to move on now? Any concrete ideas? Remove her and her family/friends from facebook? Start seeing other people?