Thank you all for your kind words of support and perspectives. I will respond more thoroughly to individual thoughts soon. But, now...things that make you go "hmmm".
I wrote what I've experienced, but anything coming from anyone is tainted by their own view and experiences...and feelings. The truth between two people's differing stories is always somewhere in between. I know this, and I always try to remember and make sure that when I speak to others about my perceptions that I try to remember that the other person's truth may be different. What are people whispering or yelling into their ears? What are their past experiences, their little angel and devil sitting cross-legged on their shoulders shouting at them? I can't hear theirs; they can't hear mine.
XH called out of the blue after I had written my thoughts here; later in the afternoon. I immediately assumed one of the girls had called him, but I confirmed later that they hadn't.
I was cold and he asked after a bit if I was pre-occupied or studying (I was...but ruminating still and having a hard time of it). I was angry still. Very angry. He sounded like a little boy trying to figure out his mother's tone of voice; is she angry at me? Is she angry? Something else? He sounded sort of ...not cheery...maybe light? Like he wanted to help lift my mood. If he was next to me (old H) he would have given me a poke in the ribs or a quick lean and bump with his shoulder while smiling at me...are you ok, type of thing. He told me he had called because D25 had borrowed the truck and he knew and was happy for me that she was finally going to move the rest of her stuff out of the basement.
So I told him. I said, I've always been honest with you, so I'm not going to lie now." I didn't tell where my info came from, but what it was. That I keep getting stories from former friends, patients who I dont even know that recognize our (uncommon) last name, friends of friends, and even those who I am still friends with who work in or around his office. I also told him the girls had found something that pointed to a physical affair, but that was their story to tell. He was quiet for a bit, but then said...not even defensively...you've got it all wrong. He sounded sad. He hesitated, but then gave me excuses for everything. I purposefully use excuses, leaving no real judgement on his truths or lies. Although he is very intelligent, I've seen him be clueless and naive about things before. As if something was missing when he grew up that rendered his point of view on some things as very childish...or child-like. I won't go into detail on what he said, but as much as I want to be angry...god help me...given what I know and have seen of that disconnect...I heard that little boy speaking that wasn't trying to be bad, but somehow effed everything up because he was trying to do what felt right at the time but didn't have the experience, foresight, or ability to see how others might view his actions.
Yeah...I can feel the breeze from the wind-up of the approaching 2x4s.
Facts. We are divorced. We live separately. I keep hearing from others how angry/disappointed/confused they are about his actions, which matches and perpetuates my own. He expressed how he wishes they wouldn't do that to me. I explained that he always told his kids to behave by saying that people judged him based on their actions. Why would you not expect them to also judge you based on your own? You say you don't know what to tell people about your own kids, because of what they do. I told him, "tell them that one is working at a day care and the other is doing x full-time, y as a start-up business with her H, z part-time to make ends meet, and is a tatoo artist because she enjoys it. You should be proud of their work ethic, independence, strength and big hearts. Why is that so hard. Why are you so worried about how your kids appear, while you are showing the world that you SEEM to be having an inappropriate relationship with another man's wife?".
So his responses? That I didn't like 50% of him (I refuse to argue his assumption about my feelings anymore, but at least the percentage is dropping and he doesn't sound as sure, lol) He admits his decisions were to do what he wanted to do, and that he made them without thinking about me at all. That now, he wanted to have as little effect on my lfe as possible and he wanted me to have as little effect on his as possible. So...(working on confronting dysfunctional thoughts lately in school) I pointed out that HE CALLED ME. He got quiet again.He said, "do you not want me to tak to you? Would that be better?" I told him I was not in charge of his decisions.Then he told me again that he was genuinely happy that my basement would be mine, once more.
This was a very calm discussion. We talked about our daughters, he asked about a med procedure I had (yay hitting 50!), and then he complained about his staff and how they were not talking or fighting and they were having a meeting together about it. He was going to tell them he was the boss and that they should do what he says and that they should establish their pecking order from there. So, I validated his good decision to call a meeting. I asked he wanted a heads-up on their perspective. He said yes. I asked if it was true that Bubbles had started calling herself the office manager and storing her stuff in his back office and using his restroom and eating back in his office with him since the D, as I'd heard. Because if it was so, he had established a pecking order within the office that placed a part time, hourly emplyee with an intimate relationship above all of the full-time salaried employees. He reiterated that THEY should establish the order. I reiterated that HIS actions or acceptance of hers had created the problem. He finally GOT it, after stubbornly refusing to see it from any other view than his own.
He really has a hard time seeing from anyone else's point of view. He is very child-like in his need to get what he wants, despite his own actions. And yes, I tend to overthink the "why's", accept or empathize maybe too much, and give people too many chances because of it. We are both very controlling in our own ways, and get very frustrated and emotional when triggered by that which we can't control.
So, gaslighting? There are big lies...supposedly to protect his ability to selfishly do what he wanted and not hurt me. But very, very, wrong behavior. NOT what you do with someone you've vowed to love, honor, and cherish. And the implication of impropriety is very much there. I'm not blind, but clueless and selfish have been present in his behavior forever...just overcast with caring, giving, supportive and loving behavior in the past. As that wore thin as his attention turned to another, those traits became glaring...balance was lost. I believe I lost balance, as well, as my jealousy, anger, and low self esteem overshadowed my own good traits.
It could be gaslighting. It could simply be as I said above...our distractions causing our less desireable traits to take center stage in our relationship. Triangulation can do that. Pointed things aren't really stable or easy to balance.
Also, I've recently read someone on Newcomer's latest threads. She found that her H had been reading her posts. It has occurred to me a few times that my XH might have done the same (timing of calls, etc). These are my thoughts...I will not hide them. There is nothing to defend. Just a process towards understanding and working through pain. If he's reading, maybe he can get a tidbit of info that will help. If not, maybe someone else will.
I know this is long, but I like to try to help people understand what I am saying, even when I'm off-balance. I will be fine. I'm at the lower end of processing this latest series of events.
Last edited by job; 01/18/1809:42 AM. Reason: added link to previous thread
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I'm so glad you posted. Your thread got locked and I couldn't respond.
What I was going to write was that, as suggested by the famous Brandeis quote, "sunlight is the best disinfectant."
For so many years he has been able to walk among everyone in his life with his head held high as some kind of noble gentleman, who, while a good guy, just didn't want to be married anymore.
Instead, he is an adulterer of a woman who is a tyrant to those around her and uses her influence to have her way while her poor cuckolded husband dodders along looking the fool.
I was going to suggest that you tell him what you knew and that you go so far as to tell her husband. Aren't you after all irate that these people never told you.
I know there is a lot of to do over whether to reveal, but the circumstances here are different. I'm not saying you need to publicly shame him, but I'm so happy you told him.
If he and Bubbles carry on, then at least it is without the excitement, without the confidence that they are are so sly that no one has seen it. They do it with full knowledge that that their actions are seen and felt.
To that end, unless your daughters have asked you not to, I would also let him know that they know. Secrets in a family cause destruction. Pure and simple. Your daughters are adult. You did no wrong discussing this with them.
I don't know if it is the MLC or the narcissism, but mine continues to lie about everything. When I recently told him I knew he'd been messing with my passwords, he refused to have a discussion until I identified which I knew had been messed with. Even then he had excuses, no admissions, just more lies.
Your husband needs to man up. His office staff is fighting because he is a coward who won't lead. They don't create the pecking order. It is his office, he needs to do that. All they will do is peck each other's eyes out. He has created this mess and it is his to clean up.
In sum, good to you for telling. Now tell her husband and let him know his daughters know. Maybe it pushes them together, but at least it is more honest than what it is now. And, nothing destroys an affair faster than a little reality.
Cil, I agree with all that Own has said. You don't owe your XH any loyalty and Bubbles is using him to Lord it over the others in the office. They both deserve each other and I agree tag he should know that his children know what they have been up to.
It's also annoying that he calls you and then says had wants to have as little influence in your life as possible and then wonders why you don't want to speak with him! Very narcissistic! (((Cil)))
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Just a quick reply, as I'm ducking out to class. He knows all. I told him that our daughters had both suspected an improper relationship since they were in highschool...that that was how obvious that he was focusing his attention on her was. The story I told him I was leaving them to tell is of the things they found "hidden" in the shop. This is because a) I didn't find it b) it is possible that it was not intended for her (we were very active until the week before BD) c) "hidden", upon retrospect, is a perception (shop being accessed by us all and not really full) and d) again, nether I nor D's know the intention behind it. Both D's were in college and "hiding" it in the shop doesn't make as much sense as D's let on, as I went in there often, sometimes just to keep him company.
I have fought the urge multiple times to call or write to her H. But I don't really want to bring that down on him as a) I'm the XW and so my involvement may be dismissed as unfounded and vindictive b) knowing how obvious it is to others and how often they spend time together with my XH, he is either trying to ignore the situation to keep his family intact or really is clueless (or manipulated...look who he's married to) and c) I would feel like an absolute sh#t being judge, jury, and jailor just to make him and his kids feel as angry and sad as I and my children. How does that help us to move on?
I am not responsible for her H or family...I have cut that whole group out of my life. Yes, I wonder if he knows or what he thinks, but my priority is my family. Truth has a way of surfacing. I already know of a few people who have left that situation, especially after it became known that we divorced. It speaks more of them (those who stay) and less negatively of me. As for my kids; the situation is evolving as understanding sinks in. I can't force my opinions on them...I want them to love their father as he does love them. However, respect is a whole other thing.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
You of course are in the best position to know these things and your "view of the world" has always demonstrated what a fair-minded person you are.
I did mean to comment on the little influence issue (thanks for the reminder Coly). I call BS on that. Mine likes to tell me how he never thinks about me.
I had a friend and partner who always said that when people say it isn't about the money, it's always about the money.
When they constantly have to tell us they don't love us or care about us or think about us or want us to have influence, it is exactly the opposite.
I would ignore every single one of those comments, as well as the migrating percentage by which he feels x or you feel y. That oven is still heating away and he isn't yet a nice golden brown.
I have absolutely no 2x4's to hand out. You laid it all out for him and you were honest and that's what matters. Coly and OwnIt have given you good comments and advice. I, too, don't think the oven is hot enough yet to even turn him a gold brown.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
A) Cheaters lie. My ex lied about his affair while I was right in front of him with the evidence open on his laptop! LOL. It's like they think they can just wish any consequences away. Do nOT let him gaslight you any further with his excuses.
B) Does Bubbles do anything financial in the office, like billing? Or reception? Just know that doctor and dentist offices are notorious targets for embezzlers and it's usually the most trusted employee, the one who never takes time off. He should have his books checked to make sure she's not embezzling money from the practice.
As for Bubbles' husband - me personally, I would want to know. But it shouldn't come from you - or if it does, should be anonymous.
Your point about your daughters loving their father but not respecting him. That is absolutely the same place my children will be when they reach the emotional age of your daughters. It's also the same place XH is with his own father. He loves him but doesn't respect him.
It makes me so sad to see people repeat the sins of their fathers as my XH has done. Intellectually they must know their actions will reduce the esteem in which their children hold them. They do them anyway. This MLC thing must truly be a malady - a form of insanity.
Your daughters are very lucky to have in you such a shining light of fairness and integrity. I'm sure a part of them will ask "What would my mother have done?" when confronted with life's difficulties.
That's interesting about the loving but not respecting comment. SS said something similar when I saw him recently - I love my Dad, but oh he's such a moron too. It is a shame, but of course understandable, when kids don't have that respect for one of their parents, due to their actions. But it does seem to happen a lot here.
Xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Guess I am the only one who thinks Cil should not tell Bubbles' husband. How do we know he doesn't already know??
Leave them to it.
His office is in turmoil?
Leave them to it.
His daughters know and have lost respect for him?
Leave them to it.
He wants you to have little influence/effect in his life?
GIVE HIM WHAT HE WANTS. NOW LEAVE HIM TO SUFFER HIS CONSEQUENCES!
Good God, you've been given the greatest gift of all - YOURSELF! Plus the bonus of being validated. You're instincts were spot on. Never ever doubt them again.
Run with it.
I know this is painful. I know this is upsetting, to put it mildly. You've done the absolute right thing for yourself by stating what you know and getting it all out in the open. His trysts will be forever overlaid with the knowledge that YOU KNOW. YOU KNEW ALL ALONG.
I believe living a life completely and totally your own, without a backward glance is the best revenge if you're into that sort of thing.
It's also the healthiest thing you can do for yourselves and your girls. They may be in their 20s, but make no mistake doll, they are still watching, learning and you are still presenting them with an example of how to live.
How would you want one of your daughters to handle this were she in the same situation?
That's my $.02.
Love you, Cil {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
"Guess I am the only one who thinks Cil should not tell Bubbles' husband. How do we know he doesn't already know??"
Thank you for that. As I've said, I've fought the temptation. With my little mind-fists! But just as I often was tempted to beg, cry, and ask why in the early days (ok, admittedly some later days, too)...I know it would most likely not go as I would hope. What would be my hope now? That he would get angry with her? Destroy their family, his trust in others, his children's security and well-being? That he would tell my XH off and open his eyes? Get violent? To what end? And what if he's suspected or known all along and just wants to keep things as they are? None of this is my problem. It is still an issue my XH has...a weakness...Do I want that? If Bubbles loosened her grip, he is still as many of you have said, not finished baking yet. If he came crawling, walking or skipping back, I see nothing that would make me feel as secure in that relationship as I felt before the midway point. That's a tough feeling to deal with when you've spent so long caring.
With each of these rages or "lows", that door crack grows thinner. Right now, its tiny. And I am not as set on the gaslighting theory as some out there may think I should be. Oh, well. My pain to deal with. But I've been told off for misunderstood "bad" behavior before. Why do you think I try so hard to see why people might do what they do? I've been there. I've made (much smaller) insensitive comments or actions, only to realize or be confronted later with my mistake. The guilt causes enormous avoidance at times, increasing the appearance of insensitivity. You realize it was wrong, but you have a hard time seeing yourself as "that" person who would do that. You make excuses or hope no one notices, deny, or lie or avoid the ones who know. Its weak. I hate weakness, so I try to confront it in myself. Feeling hateful is weak. Anger is a process; a means with which to look inside yourself and grow stronger. But hate is a weakness. An endin itself. I don't want that to be my end. I would rather be angry, move through it and still try to find out why I am this way and grow stronger by learning and understanding the motivation...both mine and that in others that causes them to behave in a way that I allow myself to be affected by.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
To answer your question, I don't fully know what Bubbles does now. At one point XH had told me she entered payments and paid bills. I know he wanted to pull back on the bsness side of things as much as possible and just concentrate on seeing patients. I had the same thought, but not my job to enlighten him. I already anm kicking myself for discussing his staff issues with him...I overstepped there, even if he brought it up. Not my circus, but he may have been sarching, as he's aware we all talk.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
To everyone else kind enough to visit...thank you. I am processing and forever learning. I will stop by to share some things later that I've learned which flipped my mindset on a few things relationally. I am learning so much about how my thoughts and actions affect others as well as myself. I guess I, too, had things missing in my upbringing. I will need to own that and improve. As always, kindness, kindness, kindness.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
{{{{{{Cil}}}}}} You are absolutely right to resist the temptation. You would hate yourself for causing more pain to others. The man must have at minimum the semblance of a clue. Truth always comes out. There are way too many suspicious people for this to go on indefinitely.
Cil, I think it might be time for you to think about how you want to engage with your exh moving forward. What I mean is, what are YOUR new rules of engagement going to be? Believe me, I know how easy it is to slip into the familiar role when the ex starts talking about something they are struggling with. I've done it. It's nice to feel needed. It's nice to feel like your opinion still matters on some level.
I think in your case most specifically, it's true cake eating.
Think about what you want to do about that, if anything. As long as your $$$ isn't affected by any potential financial shenanigans on the part of anyone, you're right to let that go.
This is for that tiny little crack in the door: how will he miss you if you're right where he left you?
much love my dear xoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
I agree with bttrfly on not telling Bubbles' H. I have many times thought about outing my H to his family/friends and even OW's H, but refrained. I firmly believe the truth will always come out.
I have to also say that I completely understand your perspective on your H and had almost that exact experience when I confronted my H with all I knew about his inappropriate relationship with the OW. It absolutely doesn't excuse his behaviors, but based on my experience with my H alone I understand your feeling on not quite accepting the gaslighting theory and tend to agree.
You truly are handling this entire situation with so much class..it's a shame your H is the way he is...he's really missing out!
Last edited by job; 01/19/1809:44 AM. Reason: added spaces between paragraphs
M: Early 40s H: late 30s 2 kids under 10 M: 15 yrs BD: 7/14 S: 10/14
I agree...do not enlighten Bubbles' H. He will find out soon enough and you do not want to be a part of that triangle of mess when it hits the fan.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Sounds like some interesting stuff. I am not a mean, vindictive, or cruel person. I have done not one thing to "out" my husband for what he has done and one of the biggest reasons I have not filed for divorce (other than my lawyer's instruction not to) is that I would have to publicly set forth the allegations that make me not trust him to parent our fragile 14 year old son without some strict rules to protect son in place.
My suggestion to speak to him was because I approach these things with what I would want someone to do for me. Perhaps that is wrong, and as I said, of all people on this board I would trust you to make the best, truest, most rational decision on something affecting your life.
I spent three years "knowing" there was something hideously wrong with my marriage. I begged him to tell me over and over what the problem was. I told him I knew something was wrong. That he was distant with me and the kids. I told him how much I was hurting over it and how badly I wanted him to work with me to fix it. He looked me right in the eye and told me over and over again that there was nothing going on and that he was just stressed/busy at work.
Had he been honest, or had OW1 contacted me, I would have stayed firm where I was in my home and my job. My daughter would have spent her last 2 years of school with her friends in a supportive environment instead of being shipped off to boarding school where she floundered. I would have been in the office every day at work, seeing what was going on first-hand, and preventing something awful that would have come later. I wouldn't be sitting here every day asking myself how I missed three years of a sordid affair, how I tolerated the cruelty, how I made poor decisions for me and my children trying to make him happy.
I wasn't suggesting that you publicly out them at all. But it sounds like you've spent a fair amount of time with these folks. I read the pain and doubt in your posts over whether there was something more to this relationship and what that did to you. I imagine Mr. Bubbles is having similar thoughts and similar feelings. He too may be questioning his sanity.
I suggested it because if does push he and Bubbles together, it will simply fast-track that situation, including its demise. My H carried a torch for his EA for years and years. It is what drove him to OW1 (that relationship folded in 3 weeks from the day it became real after living largely in fantasy for 4 years). Fantasies are much more potent than reality. I suggested it because your H looks like he is stuck in a similar fantasy and is hurting himself and others by so engaging.
In the end, of course this is your decision. I just wanted you to understand why I proposed it and why I would very much want someone to tell me, even if it hurt and even if ended more quickly a marriage that probably wasn't great to begin.
At one point XH had told me she entered payments and paid bills. I know he wanted to pull back on the bsness side of things as much as possible
Worrisome. A fairly easy scam to pull on a doctor or dentist who doesn't want to be "bothered" with the business side of things is to make payments to a non-existent company that - guess what - is actually a bank account belonging to the employee. A busy practice that pays lots of bills to different vendors might not notice one additional "vendor" being paid. And a gradual increase in overhead costs might be attributed to inflation.
Do Bubbles and her husband seem to live a lifestyle that is better than one might expect from their supposed income? Agreed, it's not your problem anymore, but if it looks suspicious, you might mention it to your girls as a possibility.
I really hope you did not take anything I said personally...I really was more expressing my views on why I would not out Bubbles'relationship to her H, without any specific poster in mind. Quite a few people expressed the idea that I should, so I merely wanted to air my views on it, specific to my case. I'm glad it created a dialogue, but it would make me sad if I offended you personally, as that was not my intent.
I'm glad that you chose to clarify your views in more detail because you have some very good points. As I struggled with the decision to tell him the little that I know, fast-tracking their relationship was one of the reasons I came up with. Putting it out in the open, or at least the inappropriateness of their relationship and the wrongs perpetrated against me (lies by omission and out 'n'out lies), would be a way of saying to others, "Here are the facts. Judge them and decide whether you want to condone this relationship". The sad fact is, I really believe there are enough people who would look the other way...and I think they are doing it now. On the other hand, I know now that at least a few others, who have no job connection to XH, have chosen to stop participating in activities with "the group". They've noticed, so I can only believe that the others have more to gain by ignoring. What would Bubbles'H do?
I've decided I don't know. People are funny. I put up with bad behavior for years because the good outweighed the bad and he came home to me each day(conferences and occassional trips to the river not withstanding). He was a true cake eater in that he seemed to be getting something from us both. And as much as I would rage and cry at him when it weighed on me, and as much as that was undesireable, guilt inducing, and made him see me as less and less desireable to be around; he hung in for quite awhile. Then he was driven to make a choice.
So, would outing this force her H to make a choice? Maybe. Or maybe he's at the stage I was, but quieter. Staying because its easier and there's more good than bad moments. He still has kids at home and is involved in their activities as well as a full time job. Its when our kiddos weren't around and I was excited at the prospect of more alone time with the hubby that things got really noticeable. Her H isn't there yet. Its only a few years away, though. Will he notice then?
Again, by explaining that I did not want to be vindictive by outing their relationship, I was not claiming to be the authority on anyone else's situation or choices. We're all trying to figure out what works best to make us able to move on or re-establish some sort of new relationship with vastly different people. I wish there was a recipe that fit all equally well, but there isn't. My NC brings him in and still throws me occassionally. But by breaking NC at holidays by inviting him so that its better for my kids, I realize it might not do me any favors. And I realize I'm doing it for me because he acts as old H (sort of) for a few hours...and I miss that. Something I'm still tossing around as I "evolve".
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I didn't post out of defensiveness, everyone has the right to their own opinions, and ultimately we all must sift through the nuggets that are offered and make our own decisions because we know the plot and the characters better than anyone. I just wanted to explain because I think the standard responses (don't tell, don't move out, don't contact them, etc.) on this site often come to the fore and every situation is different, and the timing of things can even change the options. I also think the training one receives in law school, and in practice as a litigator, requires examining the problem from all sides. I really try to do that when I can.
Wow. So it's been a bit, I guess. I just wanted to share a thought on forgiveness or whatever it is when you stop trying to get back at someone and start trying to detach.
My birthday was Wednesday. I was feeling all the love from everyone (even XH) as my phone was blowing up all day. My D27 and I were having dinner when she brought up a very large painting I had done. It was a school project that was supposed to describe a relationship and be a self portrait as an animal. I had painted a leopard in the center foreground with a collar. Connected to the collar was a heavy chain which was being held by a severed hand that the leopard had in its mouth. The gaze of the leopard came directly out of the picture and it's eyes were odd for a leopard...my very green eyes. It was gory, and graphic with other "parts" lying around (I was young). D27 remembered it and asked if I still had it because she remembered it and wanted it. I told her I threw it away and she asked why. I told her, as it was about an old relationship and I was in love with her dad at the time, that he had also asked why and I had said "It's not who I am anymore". I then thought for a bit. If I were to paint it now, I think ex would be attached to the chain...but the leopard would be chewing through the chain. It's much more difficult than tearing the person up, but less destructive...and you DON'T have to still be chained to a small part of them and dragging it around forever and leaving a smelly mess.
Last edited by job; 03/03/1805:56 AM. Reason: added space between paragraphs
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Your painting really reminded me of a section of CS Lewis' "The Great Divorce" where one character is confronted by her husband. There is imagery of a chain involved there as well - but not in the way your painting had it.
The nature of forgiveness is explored there in a fascinating way that (to me) resonates with at least my own ex and perhaps your's.
Not sure if you are interested or not, but it's an easy enough book to find online and fairly short. You may want to give it a read. It may inspire you to paint.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Whoa. It has been a minute since I wrote on my own page. I still check in on everyone else, but just very seldom have time for more than a quick comment here and there.
It has been a tough week in regard to this journey through MLC. I'm actually having a hard time even calling it MLC at this time. My classes and two case loads (one at the school clinic and one at my internship) are really creating a steep learning curve...and a lot of emotional response.
I have not spoken to XH since the last conversation mentioned here, when he just randomly called "because he was so happy that our daughter had finally moved her stuff out". In actuality, D27 had called him to tell him I was upset and why, as I found out later. During that conversation, he had meekly said, "do you just not want me to call you anymore?". I remember the panic at losing the connection...for both of us. So, I said no. We had then fallen into our old pattern of talking for a bit.
My birthday was at the beginning of March, followed by his and then what was the anniversary of our wedding. BIL texted me a lovely birthday message, as did his girlfriend, and FIL and I talked on the phone while I was at school. I'm glad they still think of me as family. I was surprised to get a cheerful text from XH, so I also texted him on his birthday and got a nice thank you...nothing more. Anniversary was ignored, as expected. Thank god its both my dog's birthday and St. Paddy's Day! Made it through the trifecta for the second time since the D!
So, this week. I had started speaking to a man from out of state online.I had told myself it was going to take someone special to pull me back into that whole scene with my schedule. He seemed so very much like me, and also seeemed to have many of the things XH had that drew me to him. He was planning on visiting family in the area and was also planning on moving up here. So we met up. His pictures online proved to be not recent, but he was nice enough. I had no real sparks, but thought I'd give him a chance. Went on a second date, which ended with an awkward kiss attempt from him (I think timing and an ability to read a person is important, so...red flag #1). He returned home and wrote to me a few days later about mixed signals, but communication continued. He figured out where he wanted to live and has recently moved up. We went out on our third date this past weekend...a walk, a coffee (he paid), more walk, and then he suggested we go to lunch. He explained that he did not bring debit or credit card, so I paid. Then there was the creepy moment when I allowed him to come in after our walk to look at some things we both wanted to show each other on the computer, when he started petting my hand...I had already decided that this was not going to work. Plus...I'm sensitive to smell. This might sound odd, but this wasn't right for me either...wrong pheromones.
So, things I can't deal with. People who live life in fear. I have no problem with hunters and people who like to target shoot. I'm not one, but I don't jump out of planes either. To each his own. But I don't need to collect AK-47s or anything to make me feel safer in my own home (this guy). I also don't need someone telling me I don't have enough security in my own home or who feels the need to not carry the means to pay for at least their share of lunch after asking someone out on a date because they're afraid of getting mugged while walking. He actually bought a "club" steering wheel lock right before coming to my house because he was afraid someone might steal his truck and took up two parking spaces in the back of the parking lot when we went on our walk. He was a very fearful person. We were never in a "bad" neighborhood. I am aware and careful, but this was fear...and it was not fun to be around.
There was also an element of control. I had a man who tried to control before, but it was not motivated by fearful anxiety as much as by minor anxiety (what if things don't get done or what if I need this thing and don't have it?). Fearful anxiety in animals is what causes unexpected biting...you can guess my red flags went up with this in a man.
So, this caused me to really miss XH again. Commence ruminating. Add that to a stressful schedule because I have a four day seminar and had to try to cram as many clinical clients as possible into Monday. And then...
The seminar is on a certain therapy for couples. Intense emotions. So yesterday during role plays, tears were everywhere as people identified with other people's positions and also connected with other's who they had had issues with in life. You really see why people act certain ways do to emotion and response in others. Guess what certain dynamics begin to look like in one half of a dysfunctional couple when it becomes to emotionally "unsafe"? You guessed it...MLC.
I was so disturbed by what I realized most likely happened in my own relationship that I could hardly function. As the others in my small role play group were tearfully saying, "oh, I'm going to have to go home to my (significant other) and apologize/use this/ listen better", all I could do was regret not knowing that this existed while we still were together.
I had such a strong urge to call him and ask him to meet me just to talk...and to apologize. But I'm too emotionally wrapped up in this. And it is so late. But I understand why he still reaches out periodically, and why so many things which seemed inconsistant occurred. They actually fit a pattern of behavior that now makes sense.
Sorry for the long post, but I felt the need to say it somewhere rather than my own head...and my own therapy appointment isn't until Monday...
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
But don't let that make you look nostalgically at your ex. Try to remember the bad stuff - like, um, he dumped you! He wasn't quite the man you thought he was. Don't let your fantasy improved version of him interfere with you dating.
Hi Cil, I'm sorry this guy wasn't a fit for you. Sounds like it hasn't been an easy time, but also some learning there about what current you likes - which is good!
I agree with KML about looking at your ex and feeling nostalgic. That is just a temporary emotional reaction would be my view. And when in any doubt - do nothing and let the emotions and the moment pass.
Invest in friends, work, activities, family and you. And if you choose to remain out there on the dating scene, well fair enough. You sound like an attractive, kind and intelligent woman - what's not to like my lovely??!!
Xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Its actually not so much looking at XH and feeling nostalgic. I am in an EFT seminar and learning about the deep wounds we cause each other due to our insecurities and assumptions based on attachment styles. Memories of things I've said to him and his own words have come flooding back to me. I owe him an apology...he was trying to make me understand how he was feeling and I shot him down over and over.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
It is never too late to own your $h!t and apologize. Never.
We all have realizations after the fact and things we'd like to make amends for. When the moment comes, you will be able to have that conversation.
As for this guy - ugh. No. just No. I think with every new situation post-D we are learning more. Even if it's reading other people's experiences. There's much to learn for all of us.
Don't beat yourself up doll. We've all changed through this process. All you can do is own your side of the street and keep it clean.
You're brilliant, gorgeous and wonderful. There will be someone who will come along at the moment they are supposed to. In the meantime, just keep moving forward.
I hope this makes sense? It's early here and again, not sleeping well. xoxoxoxo much love as always!
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
p.s. I'll let you in on a secret: there's someone i'm waiting to have this conversation with. the wounds we caused each other are decades old. i hope that i will have the opportunity to at least apologize. i think i will. i'll let you know how it goes. wish me luck! xoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Thank you. This seminar is for therapists and is intense. I feel almost likeI have been running a marathon emotionally. I'm excited to go this last day, but I'm also exhausted.
An interesting part of this is the pursuer/ distancer piece. It is broken up a bit more. We learned that the pursuer, also referred to as a blamer when in conflict and the distancer, or withdrawer in conflict, can become so disheartened that their entire way of being changes. Then the pursuer becomes a burnt-out pursuer who withdraws, and the distancer starts to pursue, but in gradually building, confused and frustrated attack mode.
Looking back, my XH pursued me throughout the early part of our marriage. He did things to woo me, sacrificed his own needs much of the time to make me happy. I enjoyed the pursuit and just...well, sat back and enjoyed it. I felt I did a lot for him as a wife and was also being a mom, but as I said...I wasn't actually "hearing and understanding" his expressed needs. It took hearing the exact words he had spoken to me repeated in the materials and videos, and hearing the explanations by the men and women saying them as they delved deeper into their core emotions of loss, fear of loss, loneliness and lack of worth, for me to realize even more what was happening.
This has beeen a journey and will continue as one. I am not satisfied with just moving on. Is it healthier? I guess that depends on your idea of health. I'm going to have to listen to couples who come to me for therapy. I'm not a counselor...I don't sit in a chair giving advice. My choice to become a therapist means I need to listen to others and meet them where they are and help them move forward by walking beside them so that they have the skills to leave me and function on their own. Getting in there with them means I need to discover and own my own S#!t as much as I can, so it doesn't pop out in a session and add to my client's pain or confusion. I've already experienced a therapist's countertransferance...I sat for half a session listening to her talking about her XH. Should have sent her a bill.
Yeah...it hurts to dig that deep. It hurts to realize that XH was trying for so long to please me while not ever feeling safe enough to discuss the deeper fears that were below his actions. He had dreams that he sacrificed to try to make me happy. I saw it as sweet and sad that he cried when we left our rental home on a lake. when he turned to me with tears on his face and assked, "doesn't it make you sad to leave here?" I thought I was being brave and strong and supportive to tell him that yes it was sad, but that it was exciting to build our own home! I didn't realize that although I was excited to finally be able to have horses and property, his dream was to have a home on a lake. Both of his grandparents had that and it was the source of all of his happy memories in a turbulent childhood. I just liked the idea of having my horse near me. No wonder he said he no longer was thinking of what I wanted when he made his later decisions. He realized that those things I wanted were just wants, not powerful dreams. He worked his back end off for my wants, while pushing aside his dreams that were in reach. I own my selfishness and blindness. I'm not beating myself up. Just finally getting it. And many of the other things that hurt him.
I now see his depression as the fallout from when he was burning out in his pursuit of me. He was done. He even told me, "I have no goals anymore." He was depressed ...and lost. When he chose to pursue his own goals "despite of me" (his words) and start finally trying to love himself, I saw it as him being selfish and in MLC. My anger is now gone. I tried before and only touched the tip of the iceberg. That is just one of the many things that is flooding me right now. My memory is too good. I'm sure there is much more.
So, yes. I should "move on". But I'm going to apologize if he will allow. He has done so many tentative reach-outs. I owe him the apologies for every thing that I can think of if he'll hear me. It will make me feel that I have done what I can. And it may ease his guilt and shame and make him feel less alone and more heard. Feeling unheard is such an isolating feeling. It can turn your stomach into a twisted knot. His biggest physical complaint.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I did a "reach out" to XH through text, asking if he would meet to talk. He and I met for lunch and I was able to apologize and let him know that I thought I might have finally figured out what he was trying to tell me about how he felt in certain specific instances in the past. He seemed touched that I had made the effort to understand, and that my interpretation was right. We had pleasant conversation, interspersed with more of my attempts to apologize/seek validity for my interpretations of ways I now realized I had hurt him.
On his part, he seemed to want to make sure that I realized that he didnt think I needed to change (I told him I did and was). The other part...um...his door is not shut. We had a very nice hug at the end of our talk. I let him know I missed talking to him as a friend. He said we would talk again soon. That is enough for now as far as I am concerned. Will life come crashing down on my head if we never speak again or he freaks out on me in some imperceptable way? No. I'm happy with that for now. Back to my books.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Hi ciluzen, There's something so dignified about your recent interaction with your ex h. The fact that were cognizant of your actions and behaviors and how they may have affected your xh just demonstrates how far you've come on your journey (and your scholastic learnings). It takes a strong, independent (detached) person to be able to look someone in the eye and own up to the subtle intricacies that may have affected your xh deep down.... When in fact, it was the two of you simply being human. Nothing you did was intentional. You didn't hurt your ex on purpose. We can barely see ourselves clearly, let alone those around us... It's no wonder that we constantly "bump into" each other with out even knowing it.
It was very brave of you to make those internal assessments and then apologize for them. Very brave indeed.
Lastly, the eft work sounds interesting. I've done some similar stuff (more of an emphasis on neuro linguistic programming) and while it is sooooooo intense, there's something To be said about having to relive those painful memories. It's carhartic, but then having the opportunity to do something with it (by changing modalities or looking at it differently) can be life changing. kudos to you for all the work you are doing and all you are experiencing. I have profound respect for you.
Me- 30's H- 40's T-10 M-5 I moved out b/c he wanted space- June 15 D filed by H: September 16
Hi Cil, I too think it was brave to have that talk with your XH. The fact is, we aren't born knowing how to have good relationships with a spouse. And we learn (or don't) from our life experience. Looking back I can see ways in which I could have been a better partner. And also been more present for myself too. These are good things to recognise and work on going forwards.
I have no interest in any possible reconciliation with my XH. However, I do feel it would be good to lay some things to rest at some point. Perhaps even meeting up for coffee might be a healing thing. But that may or not ever happen. I just don't like the scenario of having had an intimate relationship with someone, only for that to become a void, a rift. I don't think that is a healthy situation for anyone and it would be good to heal that.
I guess I'm trying to say - good for you to have processed and initiated and communicated in that way. It sounds like it was a healing conversation for you both.
Every good wish to you Cil xxx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Hey everyone; Pinn, Sotto, bttrfly, Pax...thank you for the support and input. It's always nice to have others who have been walking this road to talk with.
Whew! What a year! I have just finished the first year of my master's program and the hardest semester so far...for everyone. We all are not only taking pretty intense classes, but seeing clients at two different sites. I'm awake at 5am and sometimes don't get home until 9 at night. Part of the intensity is that we are all having to face our own demons...in our clients. I've seen individuals with symptoms of depression, anxiety, loneliness, confusion and so,so much past trauma of all kinds and levels. I've seen families dealing with substance use issues and grief and loss of loved ones. And couples...lots of couples trying to find ways to communicate with each other and be understood.
I find that in trying to understand and empathize, I see something of myself in all of them, and I learn more about myself or those close to me by listening so closely to these clients. By helping them I am helping myself. Selfish, maybe. But it seems that there really are no unique emotions; just unique perspectives.
We all say "let go" in these forums, but I'm realizing that its complicated...very complicated. In trying to understand yourself and your spouse, you can't help but have them on your mind. And we all want to understand what happened, at least at some point, so they are on our minds a lot. I feel that those who are able to let go best are those who end up staying angry in some way. Angry at how they were treated or, since it is more acceptable, how their children are being treated or are suffering. If you can make your spouse into a crazy, selfish, even personality disordered narcisist or borderline man or woman, it's so much easier to move on and away. The people we used to have loving relationships with won't tell us what's going on in their heads and they won't trust us to help them so the behavior is bizarre to us. We try to see their side and try to find our part in the demise of the relationship, maybe even beat ourselves up a bit; but with no input from them and often no spouse present to even ask, or no comfortable way to speak honestly to them any more, its easier to go back to our feelings of anger...and moving forward and away.
In my own life, I'm realizing I have know idea what will happen. My ex and I have talked a few times, but I realize he talks around the subject of "us", dropping cryptic metaphors while gazing at me intensely as if willing me to understand what he can't find the ability or strength to say directly. He's talked of how "people" should accept apologies and forgive the apologizer. How one can only do so much to save a tooth (he's a dentist) befoere it just needs to be pulled. He recently suggested to my daughter that she "kill two birds with one stone" and invite me to celebrate her birthday with him, I believe the first time that he ask that I be included in his plans with the girls (I usually invite him for holidays). He ended up not allowing me to pay and the two of us spoke in the parking lot for over an our afterward. He also called to wish me a happy Mother's Day for the first time since he left.
I'm more and more ok with being on my own, but that becomes another issue to wrap my mind around. People who know me, including my therapist, seem to love asking me if I think we will get back together or what would I do if we did. I used to think all of the time about that, but now I'm not sure how that would even look. He likes to keep me up on what our (his) friends children are up to and what he does or thinks about. He specifically avoids certain subjects (Bubbles and her family). But I sense that he wants to be near me, to talk to me more, but he is afraid. I feel that he is afraid that he will (again) do or say something that will cause me to become hurt or angry and that I will react the way I did before...with anger. I now realize how deeply that would hurt him...that he had lots of experience as a child with being screamed at and punished for doing something that he thought was fun, but found out was "wrong" when he would get in trouble.And getting in trouble in his family was traumatic.The rules were chaotic. Sometimes things that most people thought were bad were encouraged in his family. Things that many people think are good were made fun of or seen as bad. You didn't always know the rules unless you broke one. Obviously, anxiety was a family trait.
Anyway, again; I don't know what it would look like to be back with him if that was attempted. I still love him, but I see him as a child that needs comforting...less as a husband. Yet I still love talking to him...we still somehow have that strange connection that we had when we first met. He obviously has it , too. But there just seems to be so many things in the way. And I have so much to do on my own theses days, while he seems to be surrounded by both support and responsibility.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Cil, I always love reading your posts. I do think some of us really do have to deal with the personality disordered though. I'm not claiming to have the worst on the block, but as far as I can tell, he has been a lot more destructive than yours has.
Did you ever read, forgive me if I'm wrong, I think it was hopefloats posts? If I recall, her H was a lawyer. They ended up getting divorced and then eventually remarried. I think her situation sounds so much like yours. If you haven't read them, or read them in a while, maybe do if you have time. I think a lot of what she wrote will sound familiar to you.
Seems to me like he is working his way there, it is just going to be a while. You are doing what all of us are supposed to. You are really working on you and moving on for yourself. A true testament to healing.
I'm going to work on my patience and my kindness. I'm going to try to be more understanding and less reactive. I want those things for myself.
Yes, of course some will be truly dealing with spouses with MH issues. I don't doubt that at all. There are so many that go undiagnosed and just seem angry, depressed or "strange". I get that. My point was that pesonality disorders have become known by the general population...but so misunderstood. If someone is perceived to be acting in a selfish way or seems to crave positive attention, they are a narcissist. If they go back and forth between loving and hating, anger and kindness, or happy and sad...borderline. A few years ago the general population would say "bipolar".Never mind that they are totally different disorders with symptoms that, when seen together, create different pictures entirely. My own daughter (youngest) was just diagnosed with BPD. She has many of the symptoms. However, one could also look at her history and say that she was diagnosed as having anxiety and depression by one doctor and put on meds with no therapy, which led to inconsistant intake of meds with no follow-up; then another doctor decided it was due to ADD and put her on Adderall (a big no-no if the person truly has anxiety and not ADD) which sent her into a major bout of gen. anxiety which then coincided with her work with often violent at-risk teens that then set up PTSD. With anxiety and PTSD her amount of fear caused her to grab onto anyone that seemed to care for her and not want them to leave her alone, but also have extreme emotional reactions when threatened or when she felt threatened or as if she was going to be abandoned. So anxiety plus PTSD also look a lot like...BPD. Diagnosing can be tough even for those in the MH field when the info isn't all there to see. Its even harder when our own emotions and bias get in the way.
I know my own did. I remember my ex screaming at me one night, inches from my face, eyes wide...totally out of character for him. I called him crazy...yelled it at him. Then I left, feeling afraid of him for the first time ever. Looking back, I realize that he himself was desperate and afraid and very, very overwhelmed. I could have just shut up and listened to him before we got to that point, but I felt the need to offer him advice and tried to get him to see things from someone else's (his boss's) point of view. Pretty sad when even his own wife wasn't listening to him and being on his side. How alone can that make someone already overwhelmed feel? And I just labeled him "crazy". I really dislike labels now. They really do often shut the door to understanding a person, rather than explaining behavior.
Anyway, that was a long rant. I have read some of Hopefloats' posts, but not the part about her remarrying. I might go back and take a look again.
I do think about XH a lot. I'm tired of trying not to. I became rather disgusted with the last foray into dating and decided for now that I don't want to expend the energy in that disappointment. I saw too much fear or desperation in men who just didn't get it. I don't need someone to take care of me and protect me...the world is not a big scary place to me and I'm not some damsel in distress. I don't need a "white night" who is really just afraid of the world and won't admit it but needs someone by his side because he's too afraid to go it alone. That's a lot of what I ended up with.I don't want that.
I'm pretty happy with what I have and where I'm going.I do miss XH, though. Not the thought of him, as some have suggested. Him. And all of his flaws. He seems to be facing a few...don't know what his conclusions will be. So I'm figuring out who I am without him. My time is full. I thought I was supposed to be on break from school, but with internships and all of the things I'm doing...well, I guess it is a break from homework, LOL.I have roses to plant, hikes to do, movies to see, friends to hang with...life to live.
I'm glad you are working on patience and kindness. I found for myself that just working on kindness brought patience and understanding along for the ride. It takes time and practice, but I think its worth it. I still get upset and emotionally reactive at times, but I'm getting better at this. So will you.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Ciluzen, very interesting posts. I do enjoy reading your views about this. One that is resonating with me is letting go and how very complicated it is. I believe you have detailed the root cause of the complication very well. We all want to understand, to have some kind of a reason.
I do appreciate your dislike of labels and how it shuts the door to understanding a person. I was thinking about how labels limit viewing someone on a deeper level. Even someone with a positive label receive some form of prejudice.
I am glad you are doing so well, and I love reading your well though out posts.
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Your post resonated with my Cil, esiecialky the part about being fed up of trying to not think about H. Sometimes our energies are misplaced and cause us more pain.
I'm with you on the dating front to. I'm not divorced yet but my friends keep telling me it's been long enough so I should start dating. In my heart I have not let H go so I don't feel I can but I can't tell them that. I have coped on my own for two years so I definitely don't need a man to take care of me. Maybe some male companionship for outings etc. but in this world I realise that this often comes with strings soI steer well away!
Take care. X
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Hi Cil, yes labels can often cause more problems. I hate the pigeonholing that labels often bring. What I'm about to say will seem odd coming from someone who has always needed to figure it out/understand it before I could move on, but maybe this is the gift of being left: acceptance of what is. The whys and wherefores don't really matter. Knowing the answer to the why question doesn't change the situation, nor does it invest anyone with the ability to change it. Only the person going through the trauma can truly pull themselves out of it.
I hope that made sense - it's really really early here so this is more soc than well thought out observations.
I guess I'd say try not to analyze your relationship with exh and just accept it. The connection is deep and obvious to anyone reading your posts. reciprocated.
Plant your roses. Visit with your friends. Do you. If he's meant to be part of your life it will be revealed at the right time.
I always love reading your posts. xoxoxo hugs
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Indeed. Bttrfly - you always have the right words at the right time.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Hi DnJ,Job, bttrfly,AndrewP...thank you for stopping by and the input and support. I did plant my roses. I also dug up more of the lawn that goes around my house in order to transition it to more of an "english garden" feel. Planted iris, delphiniums, hollyhocks, geraniums, phlox, ornamental grasses...lots of stuff. I now have some own-root climbing roses (better in our cold winter climate) and clematis growing up my arches and trellises. Its shaping up to be very pretty. I really enjoy the comments and short talks with neighbors and park visitors as they walk by while I'm in the yard. I chose a color scheme when painting the house that was a little out of the ordinary, but with the flowers and plants growing in, it is unique and I often get "wow"s from people. Its a very dark greyish-brown with cornflower blue trim, shutters and window boxes and purple door, gate and trellises. White accents near the trim (inside window areas and such). I'm all about that kind of attention from passers-by and and people keep offering me plant starts and transplants from their gardens. I'm grateful for all of this and I really do believe that if you put good out, it comes back to you. This week I'm spreading bark mulch around everything and expanding my vegetable garden. For that, I borrowed XH's truck. Yep, there's a story that I'll get to later.
I also now have a cat that somehow adopted me and my dog. He just walked in my house when I opened the door one morning. I threw him back out and he circled around and came back in immediately, walked over and rubbed on my dog purring, so I let him stay. I'm not a cat person, but he never left. He fits our little family and seems very attached to me and the dog. He's now been here for a month and a half so, after advertising and placing a "found cat" sign on my gate and checking him for a microchip, he got vaccinated and neutered. He still chose to hang here even after that, lol. I love watching he and the dog wrestle/fight/play with each other and then snuggle together.
I am accepting of my life at the moment. Let me stress that..."at the moment". I am trying to be more fully present in what I am doing and dwell less on perceived losses from the past or what may happen in the future. I can plan..I should plan. But I can't pretend I know what other factors may pop up to change those plans.So I guess I'm still just concentrating on getting better at keeping my knees bent while travelling in the direction I want to go, in case I need to pivot,jump, or fly. I'm becoming more selfish, in a way, about my time...not trying to bend over backwards to meet everyone's needs all of the time. But I do try to be here when there is a need and enjoy the company of those who appreciate my wierdness. There are enough of those peeps, I'm finding, to make me happy. I also guard my private time quite well. I realize now that my need to carve out my own time alone was something that baffled my XH who needed more time with large amounts of people. We really never found the right balance there, or understanding of each other's needs ...or even our own.
On the XH front,there has been an interesting shift. My yougest daughter was recently engaged while on a road trip with friends. She had been texting me often about the events of the trip, plus I am on social media and saw her postings. The day after, XH called me to make sure I was aware that it had happeaned. He does not do social media, but older daughter had texted him to show him a picture of the ring. He claimed that younger daughter was not able to send or receive texts from the event well, so he was checking to see if I knew. I had no problem getting her texts.We talked for a bit, seeming to skirt some sort of issue that he wanted to express but never did. I couldn't get a deeper read than that on what was going on with him. I do know that after our oldest was married was when he dropped the bomb on me and that he had done everything he could to make it so he showed that he did not want to be involved in the wedding (other than to walk her down the aisle). Anyway, I ended up asking at the end of our conversation if I could borrow the truck, which he agreed to.
Fast forward to truck exchange...he communicated with me nicely through text about how he was also communicating with younger daughter to arrange for her to go up and get the truck from the river house with him and that if that fell through, he would do that with me. On her end, she let me know it was going to be difficult and that she would prefer that I do it.I told her I was fine with it, as I'm the one that needed the truck. It ended up with XH telling her he preferred that she do it and that he had a "tone to his voice" and was not acting his "normal" way. When D26 brought the truck back with her boyfriend, they explained that he was strange. He seemed very agitated and was trying very hard to convince her that she neeeded to come up to the river more often and that it was a nice place to be. That he didn't care what other people said, but "he was going to tell her she had to and that it was ok for him to tell her she needed to do it." He also told her he didn't want to have me come to do the truck exchange because it would upset me to go up to the river "like last time" and that he didn't want to ride for an hour and a half in a car with me asking him "how everything made him feel". She said he seemed almost angry. That, to me, is interesting. I actually don't ask people how they feel about things anymore(that's kind of a cliche I now try to avoid), but he is right about the fact that I was upset when I went to the river the last time...when I saw that it suddenly looked like Bubbles'house. Oh, well. I find it interesting because, well...its a different expression of emotion and he is actually expressing it to our daughter. Those are both new things. I don't know if it means anything but it does show a progression of thought and emotion of some sort. And possibly a fear that he wouldn't be able to hide thoughts and emotions that he tries so hard to stuff down. I don't think I'm psychic or that advanced in my therapy skills, but I do understand that he has expressed more around me the last few times and agreed with my new insights and intrpretations of his perceptions on past events. Maybe he fears that he get's too vulnerable around me? Who knows. He can battle his feelings on his own.
Older daughter has brought up more and more that he has been mentioning selling the river house as "all of the kids are growing up and no one has time to go up there anymore". Even when my kids were in highschool, he had a fantasy of renting a house on a lake for an entire summer to have the kids all bring their friends up whenever they wanted. It never happened. Then when we actually got the river house, our kids were working and in college...they almost never went up. But the "social group" had younger kids and they always would bring up all of their friends. However, XH has had to take care of that house all by himself...somehow other than putting up signs and pictures, no one actually does the upkeep. And he pays for it all. Probably not what he had envisioned. And that thing he would get mad at me about...the kids doing sport camps and other activities in the summer...it happens even more with the other kids. They all are very involved in sports and he isn't able to put a limit on their involvement as he did with our kids. So he's there by himself most of the time. Probably not what he imagined, though nothing ever does fit his expectations. I'm easy to be mad at right now, though. I have put myself in a place where he can be angry at me (if he is). My bad.
Still, it is interesting. I don't feel the need to bother him or avoid him. I'm using the truck because its there and he can always say no. I guess I'm daring him to grow a pair and say no or waiting to see what direction he goes next. I'm less personally invested and more fascinated with his reactions and changes. Its been almost three years since bomb drop. I'm actually glad I haven't just dropped out of the picture. Wherever this journey takes me, I'm learning so much. Just thought I'd share, for what its worth.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I will be fine. I'm at the lower end of processing this latest series of events.