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A Message from Michele
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#2775172 - 01/12/18 12:15 PM Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: DonH]
kml Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 13443
He has clonidine and vistaril, I have an appointment for him Monday morning at a private clinic that will do Suboxone maintenance. I'll be paying out of pocket but I'd much rather have him on Suboxone maintenance than methadone. I just have to get him through the weekend. He's in a surly stage right now, but keeping to his room.

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#2775230 - 01/13/18 05:42 AM Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: kml]
DonH Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 976
Loc: Midwest / Me 53/ WAW-EXW 52 Me...
I very much agree that suboxone is s better option than methadone. That's a personal bias as there is nothing wrong with methadone for some patients. As I'm guessing you know he has to be in moderate withdrawl to even start suboxone. I know he's on it already but the doc may want to be cautious so if he's in some withdrawl on Monday they can induct him right away.

Having said that, it's possible he's too sick for suboxone and may need methadone - especially the accountability that comes with seeing someone everyday for a while. So don't completely write it off if he ends up being in the half group that sub does not help. Hopefully he will be in the group that it works wonders for. I gave seen so many people get their lives back with this medication. He just needs to be on it at least a year - likely more.

He's lucky to have s mother who appears to really get it and is able to help as much as you are. He's very lucky for that! Please let us know how things go over the weekend and on Monday.
_________________________
DonH

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#2775236 - 01/13/18 06:26 AM Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: DonH]
kml Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 13443
He hasn't had any Suboxone since Wednesday, definitely in withdrawal right now. Can't help but think he's pushing for methadone because he thinks he'll get more of a high from it. I'd rather at least start with the Suboxone and see how it goes.

Yes I think he'll need to be on maintenance long enough to fix his depression and get his life together. I know this will be a long haul.

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#2775241 - 01/13/18 06:50 AM Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: kml]
DonH Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 976
Loc: Midwest / Me 53/ WAW-EXW 52 Me...
It's far far far easier to go from suboxone onto methadone. Going the other way can be really difficult as it involves a taper of the methadone generally down to 30 mg. if not he'll get some precipitated withdrawl. Some people really struggle gong from methadone to sub. It can be difficult to make that move.

Many addicts struggle to get passed the cravings of being high. While methadone may have him feel "something" it won't last very long - about a week at the most. That's why claims of people "getting high" on either of these meds is pure fallacy. It just does not happen due to tolerance and the very long half life of these meds. But that's why I mentioned about the potential of being too sick for sub. It's in the addict mind but that's extremely hard to break. For most patients they are above the ceiling threshold at about 4 mg of sub, yet their brain tells them they "need more". They will get on 16, 20 or even 24 mg and still think they are in withdrawals or are craving. Physically they are fully saturated but mentally...

One day at a time. It's amazing how it starts out like this but within a few months patients are able to taper down their sub to a moderate level - say 6 to 8 mg. it just takes time - another reason why quick tapers don't work. If he will only believe this can work, it will!

I wanted to mention one more thing, there are many reports of patients with depression that did not respond to SSRI, SNRI and other meds getting relief of their depression while on sub. In fact there has been talk about using sub in chronic depression patients after traditional treatments have failed. It is possible that once on a stable dose he may see his depression lift. The mind is very powerful. If he believes that sub will work for him and even help his depression, it has a better shot at doing both. To what extent you can and factoring in his current state, telling him this may well work and to believe in it may contribute to his success. Hopefully he will trust you if you tell him these things.
_________________________
DonH

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#2775242 - 01/13/18 06:53 AM Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: DonH]
kml Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 13443
Thanks Don. I appreciate your input.

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