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Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: DonH] #2775172
01/12/18 12:15 PM
01/12/18 12:15 PM
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kml Offline OP
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He has clonidine and vistaril, I have an appointment for him Monday morning at a private clinic that will do Suboxone maintenance. I'll be paying out of pocket but I'd much rather have him on Suboxone maintenance than methadone. I just have to get him through the weekend. He's in a surly stage right now, but keeping to his room.

Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: kml] #2775230
01/13/18 05:42 AM
01/13/18 05:42 AM
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I very much agree that suboxone is s better option than methadone. That's a personal bias as there is nothing wrong with methadone for some patients. As I'm guessing you know he has to be in moderate withdrawl to even start suboxone. I know he's on it already but the doc may want to be cautious so if he's in some withdrawl on Monday they can induct him right away.

Having said that, it's possible he's too sick for suboxone and may need methadone - especially the accountability that comes with seeing someone everyday for a while. So don't completely write it off if he ends up being in the half group that sub does not help. Hopefully he will be in the group that it works wonders for. I gave seen so many people get their lives back with this medication. He just needs to be on it at least a year - likely more.

He's lucky to have s mother who appears to really get it and is able to help as much as you are. He's very lucky for that! Please let us know how things go over the weekend and on Monday.


DonH
Midwest
Me 55
WAW-EXW 54
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
3 actual GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: DonH] #2775236
01/13/18 06:26 AM
01/13/18 06:26 AM
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kml Offline OP
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He hasn't had any Suboxone since Wednesday, definitely in withdrawal right now. Can't help but think he's pushing for methadone because he thinks he'll get more of a high from it. I'd rather at least start with the Suboxone and see how it goes.

Yes I think he'll need to be on maintenance long enough to fix his depression and get his life together. I know this will be a long haul.

Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: kml] #2775241
01/13/18 06:50 AM
01/13/18 06:50 AM
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DonH Offline
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It's far far far easier to go from suboxone onto methadone. Going the other way can be really difficult as it involves a taper of the methadone generally down to 30 mg. if not he'll get some precipitated withdrawl. Some people really struggle gong from methadone to sub. It can be difficult to make that move.

Many addicts struggle to get passed the cravings of being high. While methadone may have him feel "something" it won't last very long - about a week at the most. That's why claims of people "getting high" on either of these meds is pure fallacy. It just does not happen due to tolerance and the very long half life of these meds. But that's why I mentioned about the potential of being too sick for sub. It's in the addict mind but that's extremely hard to break. For most patients they are above the ceiling threshold at about 4 mg of sub, yet their brain tells them they "need more". They will get on 16, 20 or even 24 mg and still think they are in withdrawals or are craving. Physically they are fully saturated but mentally...

One day at a time. It's amazing how it starts out like this but within a few months patients are able to taper down their sub to a moderate level - say 6 to 8 mg. it just takes time - another reason why quick tapers don't work. If he will only believe this can work, it will!

I wanted to mention one more thing, there are many reports of patients with depression that did not respond to SSRI, SNRI and other meds getting relief of their depression while on sub. In fact there has been talk about using sub in chronic depression patients after traditional treatments have failed. It is possible that once on a stable dose he may see his depression lift. The mind is very powerful. If he believes that sub will work for him and even help his depression, it has a better shot at doing both. To what extent you can and factoring in his current state, telling him this may well work and to believe in it may contribute to his success. Hopefully he will trust you if you tell him these things.


DonH
Midwest
Me 55
WAW-EXW 54
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
3 actual GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: DonH] #2775242
01/13/18 06:53 AM
01/13/18 06:53 AM
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kml Offline OP
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Thanks Don. I appreciate your input.

Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: kml] #2775514
01/16/18 03:56 AM
01/16/18 03:56 AM
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kml Offline OP
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Don - son successfully started on buprenorphine yesterday. But man, was he wound up last night - came downstairs and talked nonstop for two hours! I could barely get a word in edgewise! I know some of it is pent up stuff but it was over the top, I'm going to suggest that today he try just a half a dose. Could this be a side effect?

Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: kml] #2775521
01/16/18 04:52 AM
01/16/18 04:52 AM
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Glad to hear that he got on Bup. Yes - most certainly this is from the Suboxone. He may have had a hard time sleeping as well. This will not continue. It takes a few days to get his tolerance stable. He may have felt a little bit "high" from the first dose. That again is normal and is a function of his tolerance being so low and being in withdraws. He's going from low or no opioids to a pretty hefty dose, I'm guessing - 8mg to 16mg? He most certainly needs no more than 16 mg per day.

Now the challenge will be to monitor that he is taking it daily, not taking more than prescribed and of course not selling it to go buy something else to try to get high on. These first weeks will be the toughest. He's likely excited that the drug made him feel "something" plus gave him energy. That is 100% most certainly not going to continue. By this weekend he won't feel ANYTHING after he doses. He should feel "normal." Hopefully that will include some relief from his depression as well - it sounds like that may have started.

Watch his dosing as close as you can. To be honest, if you are paying for the medication, it's not at all out of the relm for you to hold and dispense the meds to him daily. Not sure what your dynamic is with him but if you can do that, it will greatly help his chances at recovery. He needs accountability, which then will gradually be reduced.

I'm so glad he got in, got induced and seems to be doing well in the early stages. Let's hope he's one of the 50% this treatment works for!


DonH
Midwest
Me 55
WAW-EXW 54
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
3 actual GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: DonH] #2776157
01/21/18 07:49 AM
01/21/18 07:49 AM
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I wanted to check in and see how your son is doing KML. These first weeks can be a struggle. He should be stabilizing on the medication by now. Hope you'll have time for an update.


DonH
Midwest
Me 55
WAW-EXW 54
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
3 actual GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: DonH] #2776160
01/21/18 08:24 AM
01/21/18 08:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 25,626
Maryland
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Keeping your son in my thoughts and prayers.

Re: 2018 is going to be awful [Re: job] #2776168
01/21/18 10:46 AM
01/21/18 10:46 AM
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kml Offline OP
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Thanks Don. He seems to be stabilizing although the underlying depression is still an issue. He's processing the breakup with the girlfriend much better now. I got him to a meeting Friday at the private clinic that is prescribing his meds and he didn't complain too much, which is a good sign with him. Got him outdoors yesterday and about to go on a hike with him now.

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