So, she's still there, but at least she had her GFs call me from her phone to chat/flirt with me and say "you really should come by the next time we do this". She picked up the phone for a couple of seconds, but nothing about "sorry I'm late" or "I'll be leaving in 10 mins" or the lake . I had responded to her "you hoid?" text with a prolly too-snarky-sounding "why wouldn't I be?" so guess she thought she'd need her GFs to put out the,fire.
Buy it's not even about where she is or what she's doing or who she's with, it's that, under the dynamics of our current R, she didnt seem to think it necessary to say anything about being two hours (and counting) late.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Okay... You have to get that your W is non-committal in every way she interacts with you... She said she would "probably" be until 6:15 OR 6:45... Or whatever... And knowing that it bothers you that she is still not home, she has her friends pacify you instead of coming home... I know I keep saying this but I know your wife more than any other wife on these boards...
"I'm still here, aren't I" "After 15 years of suffering, and of wanting that (more intimacy) and deciding I was DONE, and yet I'm still here and that's not enough to convince you?" "Now, after just ONE year, you decide you have to have that or you won't be convinced I'm committed?" "What more do you want me to do?"
Mentioned the ring, too:
"Well, you never made any move to get a new one when you lost yours? Why not?" (Told ya she'd say that).
Could not bring herself to say "I'm in" or "I'm committed". "Oh please, don't get so caught up on the WORDS" she said.
I left and am sleeping in the guest room tonight. I either did the right thing or just completely fuched everything up.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Of course she didn't like it... Saying "I'm still here, aren't I" is a cop out... And words do matter, and she knows it... that's why she chooses the words she does... because words do matter... She asked what more do you want... Did you say IC? You mentioned the ring... But she's not willing to wear it...
By not telling you she's fully committed, and by not asking how she could prove it to you, she has told you what you want to know. Remember, she was unfaithful... Not you. But you are the one doing all the work... She's straddling the fence... You can now GAL hard, and take it from there... Ok r you can get yourself a ring and see if she wears her ring...
She did ask, a few times, "what more I wanted from her." I told her I needed to 1) know that she was committed to this MR and to reconciling it and 2) that that meant a complete and fully intimate marriage that was the goal and 3) that that necessarily included MC and doing what the MC advised, including IC.
To all of which she said "I thought we were already doing that".
I did, as you suggested I might and in response to her asking me, tell her a couple of things that made me feel less secure in the MR such as her not being completely forthcoming on some things about her and OM, her periodic rebellious talk, and the ring.... but all of those started leading down the road of defensiveness and "explanations"
Also, FWIW that I left out, and which really made me think last night was the time to bring all this up, was that she ended up in a drive by or near drive by to OM'S hangout. Found out because she called me 10 mins from home, and then after 20 mins passed I called her to "see if she was okay" abd she told me she had "missed her exit" and gone past where she would normally turn to come home. Well, where she told me she was meant she actually missed TWO exits, which I pointed out to her, and her excuse was "well I shouldn't have been driving after three glasses of wine, and anyway I didn't drive by OM'S hangout" (the latter part of which I have no way of knowing if it's true as that would only have been a block or two out of her way the way she ultimately came home. Whatever.
This morning she approached me but was very quiet. I had a moment of weakness where i apologized for the timing last night (which WAS bad... her on two or three,drinks and close to midnight and going to bed, though she had seemed in good mood at that point) but emphasized that the things I said I needed from her were absolute musts I'd we were to continue. She sort of closed her eyes and nodded her head and said she would call me later.
This really really feels yucky and wrong, and I pray to God I am doing the right thing here and, if not,that he will help bail me out from my ineptitude...
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
What feels yucky and wrong? Her reactions or your feelings?
You said you "either I did the right thing" or I "really fuched up" I hope you are not determining which is which based on the outcome. The point is you expressing your feelings and being clear with what you need out of the M. Which is full commitment to restoring the M. Nothing wishy washy. You may not get the result you want, but that does not determine whether or not you did the right thing.
Have you asked her what SHE wants out of the M? What a healthy reconciled M looks like to HER? What SHE needs in the M? That would definitely give you a good picture to see if you guys are on the same wavelength. ANd it would also be good to show her you are concerned about her needs in the M. Because they do matter. I really believe asking this question will tell you if she is just doing the minimum to appease you and say she tried, or if she truly wants a restored healthy marriage.
Have you asked her what SHE wants out of the M? What a healthy reconciled M looks like to HER? What SHE needs in the M? That would definitely give you a good picture to see if you guys are on the same wavelength. ANd it would also be good to show her you are concerned about her needs in the M. Because they do matter. I really believe asking this question will tell you if she is just doing the minimum to appease you and say she tried, or if she truly wants a restored healthy marriage.
Well, i think you really hit on part of it there. Certainly, i thought (or had allowed myself to believe, whichever) that we were "working on the MR". Maybe she even thought we were too, IDK. But then what I said last night is kind of big paradigm shift, even a BD, if that is the case. Going from a collaborative effort (humor me here) to: "This is definitely not working, i don't trust you, i don't feel safe in the MR, i don't feel like you are committed to this and Oh BTW I need sex right now" (And that latter part about the sex is how i am pretty sure she took what i said or at least she said that's how she was taking it and that it bothered her after 15 years of me not wanting that and then all of a sudden "I need that.") Because i didn't discuss any of that with her, thinking i needed to be firm with what i needed and not get sidetracked. At the same time, that feels like its pulling the rug out from under her (assuming she was really working on things). Maybe in her own mind she is, IDK, but i definitely think, given the number of "wrong turns" and "missed exits" she's had over the past couple of months that have put her out on the West side of town near OMs hangout, that that relationship is still pulling at her, and also that she does have some hang ups that are keeping her from being fully committed to being intimate with me.
so that is part of it, but not sure i wanted to go into "What she wants/needs" last night. Maybe I should have.
The other part is probably just the missing her. Our relationship had gotten to the point where it was nice. I enjoy her company. She's fun, and pretty, and warm. And our family had felt like a family again for the past three months. There was always, of course, the hurt in the background of not having her constantly "in my arms", but I'll miss the rest. And her.
My other question for all is: Now that I have dropped this bomb, how should i be acting around her, demeanor-wise. I didn't feel like last night was staged or affected or faked in any way-- i really was bothered and hurt that she didnt or couldnt say those words "Im committed" even as she tried to imply that she was, and I really felt like i didn't want to "be" with her in the MBR.
Now, i find myself wanting to talk with her again, but i also feel like i need to let her make the next move, if there is to be a next move in that regard. I figure if nothing is forthcoming, it will be incumbent upon me to move out (I cant picture her doing so and, unlike at the end of last summer, i don't really have any grounds at this point to insist that she leave.) She has called me once today but i did not take the call...
Last edited by Cadet; 01/18/1802:02 AM. Reason: Combine posts
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Anyways, I think the conversation on what she wants/needs and sees for the future is kind of imperative. If you both have different visions and different paths, that will most likely guide you on your next steps.
Jim....IMO I think you are going to have to. The catalyst that got my W really admitting to me how she felt was a very similar situation that happened to you last night. She was supposed to be home at a certain time, ended up coming home 3 hours late and we got into a conversation when she was tipsy. That conversation was her basically being honest with me, telling me the only reason why she stuck around for the past several weeks was to make me feel better to give me the impression that we tried. She told me she was selfish, knew she was being selfish but basically didn't give a $hit.
IMO you are going to need to have the conversation, I real honest conversation.
