There is no path back together for us that involves separation. Separation means she defaults to her support system-- bff. Which means, also, OM. I will not take her back, ever or under any circumstances, if she goes back to him in any way, shape, or form. She'd be tainted goods in my eyes. And, even if she didn't, were we separated and apart for any amount of time under the circumstances, I don't know that I could trust that she hadn't... which brings me back to "I will not take her back."
hoosjim,
In my opinion, until you're willing to let go, you're never going to get her back. You're fighting the current and you're just going to exhaust yourself.
There certainly seem to be a lot of counselors, gurus, and whatnot out there however who seem to think marriages can be restored without separation so... either they or you guys gotta be wrong.
I understand that you would take their advice over ours.
Based on the above statement we need more information. Are the "gurus" talking about both people being committed to the marriage or just one?
I will again repeat what my MC said "if two people come in committed to the M that D is not an option she has a 99.9% of restoring a healthy marriage. If two people come in and neither or only 1 are committed she has roughly a 0% chance of restoring the marriage"
There is no path back together for us that involves separation. Separation means she defaults to her support system-- bff. Which means, also, OM.
well, that is a shame... throwing out, perhaps the one thing that might save your marriage... separation means separation... you live your life, she lives hers... you want to control everything... you want to, somehow, keep it all together... keep her from betraying you... she already has... and you didn't walk...
what will you do differently in your in-house separation? if you don't have that plan of action, do not bother having the conversation, because you have already tried "living your life without her" while living together... and you are not good at it for long... you hang on every word, every action, every nuance... you cannot detach...
she will play you, string you along... feed you bread crumbs, and even lead you on... i don't see your situation changing should she not fully commit, and you continue to live together...
my two cents: you are not ready to approach her with your wants, needs, expectations...
HJ....it certainly is a personal decision however I have no regrets that my W and I separated. IMO if she had stayed in the house for 3 additional months like she originally planned our R would have further eroded. It also would have delayed our journey by 3 months as well.
I have no proof of OM but I would be stupid to think she has had no interaction with the opposite sex. My W has enablers as well, she is a teacher, and has surrounded herself with teacher friends of hers that are in their mid 40's and D as well. In fact her and "her crew" as she refers to them are going out of town for a girls weekend this weekend. Live it up party I say! My theory is the more she does it and has the opportunity to make choices maybe it will reduce our time a part.
I am living my life, doing things that I enjoy and am secure with myself as a husband and father. I am a good man. Me and my 8 yr old even baked cookies yesterday
My advice, FWIW, is look deep inside yourself and determine how much of your ego is prohibiting you from truely opening the cage door, DTR and setting your W free. IMO if you want to save your MR you are going to need to let your W go.
I concur with Doodler, you really need to let go. You are trying so hard to get her to "behave" in a way that you want. If she deices that she wants to go to OM if you separate and let her go, well, then she wasn't meant to stay. You can't "keep" her from making those choices. If she is truly committed to the M, she will decide to work on herself, and not go back to OM.
I learned something huge in subsequent R's after my M. I tried so hard in my M to keep him there. The whole R, the whole M, I had to do all the heavy lifting. And he left for OW. he made his choice. My R with him was only 9 years, not as long term as you, but either way, I was fully committed, especially since we just had a baby. But the biggest lesson I learned is that if I have they would run into someone elses arms? well, then they weren't to go out of my way to "keep" someone here because if I didn't meant to be here. I want someone to choose "me" and "us". Otherwise, my attitude now is "don't let the door hit you in the arse"
There are some who don't understand why I don't have a problem with jealousy in my relationships after my ex cheated. I have no problems with a boyfriend going out with the guys, or even going out with their friends who are girls. Because if they choose them, well, they aren't for me. My partner needs to be able to choose me, else I don't want them.
She needs to choose you. Without rules, or keeping her in "tight reins". She needs to freely chose YOU
Sorry that is kind of difficult to understand because I am trying to type on the DL at work, and I keep minimizing every time someone walks past my desk. But I think you get the jist.
There certainly seem to be a lot of counselors, gurus, and whatnot out there however who seem to think marriages can be restored without separation so... either they or you guys gotta be wrong. Whatever.
you are a lawyer... words matter... this here is an informal logical fallacy called a false dilemma...
it's not one or the other... one or the other group has gotta be wrong... and not whatever... all the power in the world to you, hoosjim... i do hope you prove the gurus right in your case... you, PsySara, Tate, GW5263, CW2017 are pretty much in the same boat, and all of you are handling your sitches in a similar fashion... i would love it if you all prove us wrong and the gurus right... if it comes down to it, may an in-house separation work for all of you...
in the words of our good friend Bryan Adams, this is comin' straight from the heart...
Maybe it's a million to one shot if we stay together, in house... idunno. There certainly seem to be a lot of counselors, gurus, and whatnot out there however who seem to think marriages can be restored without separation so... either they or you guys gotta be wrong.
They are more likely to get paid for their services, if you continue things as they are. We don't get paid.
IMHO, if you are not emotionally and physically intimate in the MR, and live under the same roof......you are already in-house S. How many years have you been living this way with your W? I think it will be a huge mistake to tell her you are officially in-house S. There will be no more MC, or her seeing an IC. In-house S will be her hall pass to really live like GGW, and if you complain, she'll quickly remind you of the hall pass. She'll probably do it if you physically separate, but living under the same roof is like rubbing your nose in it. IMHO, it is so much more degrading. At least, by physically separating, you are showing that you will not live with her while she disrespects you publicly.
I just wished you would get this idea of physical S as the end. And it angers me to hear you or any man refer to his W as "tainted goods". What difference does it make if you are in the house or out of the house when she turns to the OM? You were under the same roof when she cheated the first time, and you didn't think she was so tainted you had to leave, did you? In fact, you are anxious to have sex with her. That makes no sense to me!
The reason I have purposed physical separation as being the last resort to saving this M, is b/ you've tried MC and had a start (maybe a false start) to reconciliation. Maybe her initial intention was to reconcile, but if so, I think she faltered and is resistant to follow through with the things she needs to address.
She's had the BBF whispering in her ear, and her patient H standing by, and perhaps the OM waiting in the wings (IDK). She has had it easy. She's not really suffered any consequences, has she? With you not living under the same roof, or being there to support her emotionally/financially/physically.....would it pull her out of this mindset? There is no guarantee that anything will succeed in reconciling the MR. Just b/c you are under the same roof, means nothing as far as reconciling from in-house separation. I've never seen one succeed. I don't count TxHubby's sitch as in-house S. To my knowledge he never said they were in-house S. They lived like you and your W are currently living. He hoped she would eventually come around, but she didn't. Most of his previous posts were about exposing the affair. However, he was not the one who exposed his own W's affair. It was the OM's W, and TxHubby's W was dumped by her OM. TxHubby eventually became an emotional WAH when he got so fed up that he was walking out the door. That is what brought his WW to her senses. It sure as heck wasn't an in-house separation! Please understand, I am not knocking TxHubby. I wish he'd taken his last step, first, and it would saved him from a lot of anxiety. I just want you to know it was not an in-house S that brought the reconciliation to that MR.
I know you have been extremely hesitant in physically separating, and have used the kids and S17's condition for reasons to not S. I am not unemphatic about it. However, I know that if you were D.....life would go on, and S17 and S19 would be okay. One is in college and the other one will be in a few months. Then what? I think you need to look at Hoosjim for the true reason you fear separating from her. If you can't see S as a last resort to saving your MR, then stop talking about separation altogether, and/or approaching her about commitment, and just continue to live with her. Without some type of action from you, you are wasting your breath with another R talk.
My point of physical separation is to give your W time without you in her life. Give her the space and freedom to do whatever she thinks will bring her happiness. When she discovers it doesn't work like the Christmas movies portray, and she realizes she still loves and wants her H......then she will be serious about really working on the M, instead of throwing breadcrumbs. She's not afraid to lose you, anymore than I was afraid of losing my H.
The physical separation is not all about her. It's about you, as well. You need to GAL without her.
The major turning point from wanting to believe she was trying to reconcile, was when I found out she had never put on her wedding ring. And frankly, Jim, you saying that you don't wear yours either, b/c you lost it......is one of the biggest self denials I have heard in a long time. You lost your ring. It was not your personal choice to not wear it. She didn't lose her ring. She chooses not to wear it!! That is a big red flag, IMHO. So, get real here. The minute she told you whatever she told you to make you believe the MR was reconciling.....was the minute she should have put that ring on her finger. And you should have insisted, if she didn't. The fact you just let it ride.......makes me wonder if you have been in denial all the way through this. Even others have commented on how you make excuses for her. I know love is blind, but you are smarter than this. Stop finding excuses and covering for her.
Finally, I have to ask again why you see a physical separation as the end of the M, instead of the LRT. And, why is your self righteousness kicking in at the thought of her seeing the OM after you separate, when you are willing to accept the possibility while currently living with her? I can nearly promise you she's going to try her wings, unless she is totally devastated over the separation. She would be tainted goods?!? That's bull cr@p!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, I like and respect you, but it is absolutely and 100% not bull crap. An emotional affair, they came very close to a physical affair, with one of my very best friends. I've never had anything more hurtful and flicked it on me or seen inflicted on someone I care about. If we were to separate now, I have no qualms about the idea of as you say letting her go free. Everyone here with eyes open. But I have made no secret of the fact, and I have told her, that if she chooses any sort of relationship with om in the future, then she will have nothing for me, not even friendship. I have been very clear about this. If she is willing to commit now, I have forgiven her for the past. If she can't commit now, that I can walk away. All I am saying, is that I don't know if I could ever trust that she did not go to om, whether or not she actually didn't. Now, I guess anything's possible and perhaps I can be convinced if she came to her senses down the road after a separation, I just sincerely doubt it.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
