WW, A ended, but limbo and unanswered Qs.(My 10th)

[JRuss]

I lived a lot of your life, jim. I feel for you. It was always going to end up here, though, for both of us.

You and I both married the same personality type ((unhappy) enneagram 4s), and neither one of us has the personality type to truly drop the rope while living in close physical proximity to our spouse, still actively parenting together, trying to keep up appearances to outsiders, etc. We throw ourselves into the work of self-improvement, DB our asses off, start to feel really great changes happening inside us, and then we temp check (whether we know we're doing it or not) because we want so desperately to see if we're making progress. But she knows and feels this temp checking, and she then constantly checks inside herself to see if she's again attracted to you, quickly determines she's still not (in part because you're pursuing her with the temp checking, and in part because she thinks it can only come back with a return to limerance-type feelings and, in any event, isn't willing to do any work on herself to understand her unhealthy relationship with her own feelings), and down you go, again. You redouble your efforts, you plot and plan, you post tortured posts on message boards, you seek any and all advice you can get, you follow it diligently, and you hope and you worry and you stress, and you wonder what if I do this, or that . . . and the gulf just grows or, at best, remains stuck where it is, because it's all pursuit when it gets into this dynamic, she gets more and more entrenched in her belief that nothing will ever change inside her, and this goes on and on and on and on.

DBing is a wonderful self-help tool, and it can improve the chances for reconciliation if practiced religiously and consistently AND the two people in question have the right personality types and things go how they need to go in terms of your living situation. It almost never works if you stay together in the same home, though. All that that proximity and co-parenting and economic partnership (devoid of intimacy) does is reinforce again and again the drift that's occurred in your relationship, until, in her mind, it just is, and it's insurmountable and not possible for it to be anything but whatever it is.

Eventually (and you're not there yet), you will throw off the belief that this is all your fault or even more yours than hers. At this point, it's almost entirely hers, for what it's worth. It's not worth much relationship-wise, but the self-realization of it is of immense value for where you're ultimately going on your journey.

As a now very happily divorced man, I can tell you that you need to physically separate if you want to R. But be prepared to not want to R once you do. You really won't believe how nice it is to live a life where you are not being told in words, deeds, sighs or via sexual shutdown/disinterest that you're not good enough, that you don't give her "that spark", that hers is a life regretted, that's it's devoid of excitement for her . . .

There is an immense weight on your shoulders that's been there so long you don't even think you feel it anymore.

Your first really powerful realization upon separating (after some initial sorrow) will be that life alone, even if it's forever (which it won't be, if you don't want that), is way better than what you had. You will have space to complete the work you've started on yourself, and you will have the time and energy to really get serious about mapping out, then implementing, how you become the man you want to be over the next 3-4 decades. And then the other women will come calling. Then you'll know for sure.

Think about this, because it's true: there are literally MILLIONS of women on this planet, right now, who'd LOVE to get with a man who's spent a full year working his ass off to become more self-aware and a better person, who has a job (much less a good one) and who is joyful and happy and kind and wants to have fun and have adventures. That is living. What you have been doing, what I did for years -- that is NOT living. It's dying.

Your job at that point will be not to backslide or ever again accept a relationship that isn't a two-way street, but that's putting the ox before the cart. Just know that your 2018 will be much better than your 2017, and your 2019 likely even better than that.

[LH19]

Think about this, because it's true: there are literally MILLIONS of women on this planet, right now, who'd LOVE to get with a man who's spent a full year working his ass off to become more self-aware and a better person, who has a job (much less a good one) and who is joyful and happy and kind and wants to have fun and have adventures. That is living. What you have been doing, what I did for years -- that is NOT living. It's dying.

Your job at that point will be not to backslide or ever again accept a relationship that isn't a two-way street, but that's putting the ox before the cart. Just know that your 2018 will be much better than your 2017, and your 2019 likely even better than that.

JRUSS,

This is the best fuching post I have read on here in the last year. I love the last two paragraphs. I say it all the time "never again will I try to convince someone to be with me".

I am glad you are doing great! I am right behind you and should be divorced soon. I can't wait to see what life has in store for me in the future.

Take care and keep paying it forward!

[doodler]

hoosjim,

I agree with what LH19 said about what JRuss said.

Also, I have a question that I've been dying to ask for awhile: Who's Jim? Or maybe a better question is, is the "hoos" at the beginning of your username supposed to imply "who's"?

[AnotherStander]

As a now very happily divorced man, I can tell you that you need to physically separate if you want to R. But be prepared to not want to R once you do. You really won't believe how nice it is to live a life where you are not being told in words, deeds, sighs or via sexual shutdown/disinterest that you're not good enough, that you don't give her "that spark", that hers is a life regretted, that's it's devoid of excitement for her . . .

There is an immense weight on your shoulders that's been there so long you don't even think you feel it anymore.

I definitely agree with this. I say it fairly often but I'm convinced most broken marriages don't recon not because of the WAS, but because of the LBS. Once the LBS separates, detaches, goes through the grieving process and comes out of the fog (remembering that the M wasn't that great after all) then often they are DONE with the WAS. And of course it's not until after that entire process is complete that the WAS emerges from the fog too and sometimes (often?) decides they want to attempt recon. Just imagine going through all this pain and misery and finally recovering from it and building a whole new "you" ready to take on the world and suddenly your WAS says "hey let's get back together." Of course just about any LBS is going to say "what, and expose myself to the chance that I will have to suffer that all over again????" It's just not worth it to most LBS's. And like in my case, I would have given anything to keep my family together but now my D's are grown and moved out, my S is in high school and won't be in the "nest" for much longer, I'm 100% independent now and have a super hot, sexy, young GF. If my XW said she was ready to recon, why would I even want to other than maybe nostalgia for my old family life, but with the kids being grown that doesn't even exist anymore, at least not in that "full house" sense.

Your first really powerful realization upon separating (after some initial sorrow) will be that life alone, even if it's forever (which it won't be, if you don't want that), is way better than what you had. You will have space to complete the work you've started on yourself, and you will have the time and energy to really get serious about mapping out, then implementing, how you become the man you want to be over the next 3-4 decades. And then the other women will come calling. Then you'll know for sure.

Also completely agree with this.It's really hard to imagine when you're in the throes of BD, S and D, but life after all of that is not just surviving, but thriving. You emerge with a new perspective on life, a new appreciation for the small pleasures, and a realization that if you can survive this, well there's not much you can't do!

[sandi2]

I saw a change in Another Stander's writings, after his D. However, JRuss has been like going from night to day! All of his posts I have read since his D, have been the same quality we've seen on this thread. I think men, especially those very nice-guys, who go through a D, are most helpful to newcomers. Many newcomers want to hear from those who saved their M's. But IMHO, these nice guys who are M to the type woman JRuss described......have priceless words of advice, if people will listen.

[Subitai]

Yah, the lack of 'success' posters can be disheartening, but it seems like the success story posters disappear after Recon. I'm grateful that there are a few still on the board!

Hearing from people who've been through the wringer and come out the other side a better person is very valuable, though. It gives us all something to shoot for even while hoping for Recon. And it helps temper the "OMG, SAVE THIS IMMEDIATELY!" impulses that are so hard for us who are early in the process. I constantly still imagine the movie/storybook/etc ending where I say something, or some little thing happens, and W immediately falls back into my arms. It's brutal facing the reality. I'm glad I found this site.

[TBSakaJ9]

JRUSS...I really enjoyed reading your post and I read through your sitch when I first joined. I remember seeing a lot of similiarites between my W and your EX.

As I process my own emotions and get stronger.....I keep coming back to the question of what will it feel like when you are done and ready to initiate D and move on yourself? People say you will just know but what feelings or lack of should I expect to have?

[LH19]

I constantly still imagine the movie/storybook/etc ending where I say something, or some little thing happens, and W immediately falls back into my arms.

Sub,

You see the problem is that BS only happens in the movies. The ones where the guy pursues and purses and purses and the woman realizes all along she was madly in love with him and falls into his arms. In real life women see him as a creepy stalker.

Same with sitcoms like the King of Queens with the hot wife and the dopey fat husband who sits around all day eating chicken wings but they are madly in love. In real life the hot W has OM 1 2 & 3.

[Subitai]

Yep. Storybook/sitcom/movie this ain't. Hard work is what will help.

[hoosjim]

There is no path back together for us that involves separation. Separation means she defaults to her support system-- bff. Which means, also, OM. I will not take her back, ever or under any circumstances, if she goes back to him in any way, shape, or form. She'd be tainted goods in my eyes. And, even if she didn't, were we separated and apart for any amount of time under the circumstances, I don't know that I could trust that she hadn't... which brings me back to "I will not take her back."

Maybe it's a million to one shot if we stay together, in house... idunno. There certainly seem to be a lot of counselors, gurus, and whatnot out there however who seem to think marriages can be restored without separation so... either they or you guys gotta be wrong. Whatever. All I know is that when we have this conversation, if she does not commit and I or she "walks"... we're done. And that is why I need to make sure I have fully thought/prayed/considered the matter, and am ready to pull the plug if need be. I am pretty confident that I am... but, like I said, my take is that that means we are done for good.