I have been lurking here for a while but anxiously awaited my registration so i could post because... i need help, badly
I will try to only post the most important bits otherwise we will end up with a wall of text that may not get me anywhere (besides journaling)
My wife and I have been together for 16 years now, married for 5. We only married because we bought the house together back then to facilitate things though, but that's not the point. After facing an extremely difficult time last year with the sickness of my mother (which we took into our house), the death of my mother 2 months ago, the death of her father 4 months back and most of all the trouble with getting rid of a business, i can say that this was the most stressful, damaging year of our lives.
a couple months back she started talking about how getting married might have been a mistake and how she felt constrained by it in some form. These feelings kept getting stronger and it wasn't long until she was openly discussing divorce. We are now at a point where every 2nd day or so she CLEARY wants to get divorced. The thing is, the day after usually, she is like a different person (almost schizophrenic like) and comes to me in an extremely vulnerable state where she states that Divorce is not what she wants and that she is confused.
Before you ask, yes, she also exhibits all the classical signs of an MLC, she spontaneously grew a new circle of friends that is only for her, she took up gym classes, takes care of her appearance WAY more than before, stays out late until the morning etc. so yes I AM pretty sure she is experiencing an MLC after i have read an extensive amount of literature on the subject. (i also browsed a lot of threads on here so i kind of already know a bit on the main guidelines on how to react as the LBS).
Long story short:
When she just now told me CLEARLY that she no longer wants to be with me, and even started discussing terms of the D, what am i supposed to do now?
I am conflicted between moving out myself (which she already suggested a few times since SHE wants to keep the house)and insisting on staying. I should also mention we have a 4 year old son which of course infinitely complicates the matter. She also wants to keep our son in a D.
The thing is, if i insist on staying i will only put more pressure on her and that is one of the main things i should not do in this situation. Then again, if i agree to move out, which would probably take the pressure of her, would i not be seen by my son as the parent that left him later on in life?
I am so afraid that when i move out it will be definitive and that i am damaging our son in an irreparable way, since i know how it feels when your father is gone all of a sudden (my dad died when i was a kid).
In addition i feel that i am kind of "betraying" the other "side" of her which a couple days ago came to me at night (sleeping in another room after a big Divorce discussion) and told me that she was afraid of destroying everything we have built and that she needed ME to protect us (i assume our family) from herself.
That is the thing, is it really normal for an MLCer to come across as two entirely separate personalities in a matter of 2 days? If so, which one to believe/support?
My head (and heart) is spinning honestly and i don't know what to do anymore
Any and all feedback would be tremendously appreciated!!!
Welcome to the MLC Forum. I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome thread w/lots of homework, so read and ask questions as they come along.
Welcome to the MLC Forum. You will meet people who are at various stages of dealing w/the fallout of their spouses being MIA. I am going to post below, Cadet's Welcome Posting. Please read the links and then come back and ask questions, if you should have any.
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon _________________________ Me-63, D30,S29
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Neutral - Welcome to the last place you would ever want to be.
While it may not feel like anything is "normal" as you've probably read in other people's stories there seems to be some common themes.
Yes - bouncing around and acting like different people is pretty common and they bounce around the depression and other emotions going through their heads.
One key thing is that you need to make sure you protect yourself and your little boy. People in MLC tend to be unreliable in all sorts of ways including responsibilities and money.
One thing job says over and over again (sometimes I even listened) is that we didn't break them, so we can't fix them.
You are probably in for a bit of a bumpy ride as she tries to figure out what she wants for her future and her life. The lighthouse story in the Newcomer's greetings is a favourite of mine.
I'm sure others will be by shortly with questions and suggestions.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Welcome to the club. You were together a long time before being married. What does marriage and divorce mean to you and her?
Re moving out, yes with a kid it makes things much more complicated. Don’t do it emotionally or spur of the moment or without consulting a L. Yes, she wants the house and kid but D doesn’t work that way. You both get to say what you want and usually divide everything in half, including custody of the kid. My stbx wanted the house and kids. She is paying me for my half of the house and we are splitting kids 50-50.
Your w says she wants a D but has she done anything about it? People talk about D for years...but follow actions, not words.
If you don’t want to abandon your son, then don’t abandon your son. Figure out what you want—this will take time.
Great D B advice I got from the coach is not to fight or resist what she says. Meaning when she says “I want a D” you can say “I don’t want a D but I won’t stand in your way if that’s what you want”. That defuses the situation and take the pressure off of her and gives time and space for both of you. If she starts badgering you on D logistics you can say “I’m not an expert on D so want to consult with a L before rushing into any decisions.” This gives you space and time to make informed decisions.
Warning: if she is going out all night and insisting on a D...highly likely there is an OM in the picture. What do you know or suspect?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Take your time, move slowly, and don't take any steps like moving out until you know what you are doing and why. Don't be pressured into any moves that you do not want to make.
Take your time, move slowly, and don't take any steps like moving out until you know what you are doing and why. Don't be pressured into any moves that you do not want to make.
I should probably mention the fact that i live in a EU country where Divorce law works in a way that only allows custody for children to ONE parent only, while the other is relegated to seeing their child 2 days every 2 weeks. This is LEGALLY speaking of course, you can always make arrangements like 50/50 of course but that is of your own consent. If the custodian does no longer agree you are pretty much out of luck on that one
Another fact here is that apparently more than 90% of the time the mother gets the child unless they are extremely abusive etc. which is not the case.
In fact, i believe that my (still) wife is a wonderful mother under NORMAL circumstances. I have been trying to reason with her and explain to her that if she were "stable" and not in an MLC it would probably even be best for our son to live with her if i HAD to make a choice since she was always the one i trusted to make the best choices for him when it came down to it.
Of course that triggered her and while she was sort of on board with knowingly being in an MLC (h@ll she even suggested it herself 6 months back or so) she now denied it and said she no longer believes she is having a MLC but that this is what she truly wanted all along (divorce) and to go against what societal norms and expectations as well as her mother (traditional christian) have always expected of her, in order to save herself.
Suffice to say, i have tried to send her information about what an MLC is in hopes of her trying to better understand what sort of situation she and our family are in right now but yeah... it'll probably backfire lol
I gotta say though, she was very convincing tonight. She even convinced ME that D is the right thing to do for her now. It is not what i WANT but i now feel that by trying to stall her and to buy time and trying to convince her of other options like counseling and whatnot, i am only delaying the inevitable. She will no longer be happy like this and she is feeling SO much pressure from this situation (i have to mention that she gets bouts of depression as well with this but that is not uncommon i heard) that i feel it truly may be best if i went along with the D just to show her that i truly do not want to stand in her way of happiness even if it has to be without me.
Tomorrow we have an appointment with a notary in order to assess our common finances and to gauge what a D would/will (ugh) cost each of us.
To be frank though, i have made my share of mistakes and i now see there is a LOT of truth to what she is telling me. I was not a good husband and i should have done MANY things differently. I did not protect her and care for her enough and wrongly assumed she was strong enough to bear my problems and shortcomings.
However, i still believe that the deciding factor in her pushing for D as intensely as she does now is the MLC and not the fact that i (rightfully) need to become a better man myself.
As for an OM, well she IS seeing a guy that she goes to the gym with quite a lot but according to her he is gay so.. make of that what you will lol. Even if it is a lie and she is cheating on me, it doesn't even matter at this point does it? We are going straight for divorce and i can't even fault her for it, when i am being honest... It still destroys me inside and makes me cry every time i think about it.
Last edited by job; 01/04/1810:34 AM. Reason: edited a word
First, if your wife is in MLC, you are aware that MLC's number one ingredient is depression? It's about childhood issues and they were stunted emotionally at a young age. She needs to go back to that age, revisit it and realize that she was not at fault for the way she was treated and hopefully, then begin to grow up.
Second, please stop trying to rationalize w/her and tell her that she's in MLC. MLCers do not want to hear or be diagnosed w/health issues. You can't rationalize w/a person who isn't being rationale, i.e., operating on pure emotions. You can't reason w/them, so keep your thoughts to yourself about her being in MLC. Stop sending her info about MLC and whatever you do, DO NOT SHARE what you learn here or provide her w/the address of this site. This site is for you and you alone.
Third, the person you knew is gone. She is now the mirror image of that person you knew, i.e., the opposite. She's going to do things that are the exact opposite of what you would expect of her.
If something isn't working, which clearly your conversations w/her of recent days, then stop bringing up relationship and MLC talks. Stick to general subjects, i.e., such as your child...keep the conversations very neutral.
No marriage is perfect and we all have made mistakes, but that doesn't mean that she couldn't have come and talked to you about what she was thinking long before the crisis hit. It's not your place to make her happy. Happiness comes from within and the only person that you can help is yourself and your children.
I have one question for you...what happened about 18-24 months ago? Did someone pass away, she lose/gain employment, health issues for her? Something triggered the onset of her crisis and just so you know, she has 18-24 months head start on you for detaching from you and the relationship.
Please read the homework that I left for you. Visit other threads and you'll soon discover that much of what your wife is saying and doing is very typical of someone in crisis. Educate yourself on depression...that will help you better understand some of what she's saying and/or doing.
Bottom line...keep your expectations of her to zero, focus on yourself and your family and dig very, very deep for patience because she is going to try your patience. This is not a sprint, but a marathon...are you up for it or are you ready to cut your losses?
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I am of the firm belief that things are never black and white but always a combination of several things (shades of grey), so in this case i do believe she is exhibiting clear signs of an MLC BUT i am also starting to see all the things i did wrong during our time together. The thing is, she DID come forward and tell me some of these things through signs, indications, h@ll her depressive states for years WERE signs of this crisis waiting to happen, only i brushed it off all too easily, ignorant of what was to come and how she was suffering.
I now see that i had this coming all along. That is not to say that she doesn't have her own issues to deal with of course, but all this doesn't change the fact that we have to deal with this situation now in our own ways.
18-24 months ago you say? Honestly i can't think of anything out of the ordinary around THAT specific timeframe... Her dad was sick and got worse during that time with a deadly illness but then he has been diagnosed 2 years prior already and only recently died 4 months ago and i doubt that was it. The worst time of our lives only started to happen a year ago when i had to take over a business and brought all the negative stress into our home (in addition to my sick mother) which poisoned the atmosphere constantly and made things almost unbearable.
What do you mean by cut my losses though? It's all so hard to manage and figure out at this point for me.
On the one hand i WANT to change and become a better person so that maybe one day she will see that and then realize we may have a future together as renewed personalities but that hope is incredibly slim.
On the other i am starting to see a life on my own now because i HAVE to face the reality that she is gone and will never come back.
Cling on to that last straw of hope or live free or is there a middle ground?
Not to speak of all the implications for our son and the financial troubles ahead which will further poison our relationship since neither of us really wants to gout of D screwed over financially.
Last edited by job; 01/05/1812:49 AM. Reason: edited a word
After she realized that she cannot afford the divorce or rather that the situation afterwards would not be feasible for her (that she can keep the house basically) she was a mess emotionally and told me during the ride back home that she now no longer wants a D.
This SHOULD sound like good news to me but honestly it's probably the worst thing that could have happened here.
She said she now wants to stay and we'll try to get along somehow but that she will from now on have to worry about her own happiness and put her needs first.
That in itself does not sound all that bad right? Problem is the way she said it STRONGLY implied to me that she indeed means an OM. She is now constantly texting on her phone and yeah... i can do the math i guess. It doesn't matter though, or at least it shouldn't matter to me at this point.
I am now SO confused and dumbfounded though with what to DO with this situation?
I feel like i'd rather be the one to push for D now in spite of everything since i don't think i could accept her living like that "officially" from now on.
Before it was sort of an unspoken "agreement" between us that she now has a new extravagant lifestyle in order to find herself anew and i could see myself coming to terms with that even.
But to make it official and basically tell me that she will now go and live her life (and probably her affair) apart from me but still live with me in our house does not sit right with me no matter how i look at it???
Enlighten me please (aka any feedback is greatly appreciated lol)
Sounds like her father's illness may have been a "starting" trigger for her. She saw her father in a different light when he was sick.
As for her changing her mind about the divorce...not surprised. She doesn't want to spend the money on a piece of paper when she can continue to live as she is at the moment and that you will go along w/it because of the $$$ to get a divorce.
You do not know whether she'll get through her crisis or stay stuck, so the word "never" is a bit premature because none us know what the future will hold for her.
Please take some time to digest the info you received. Do not make any decisions while you are upset and/or angry. Usually those decisions will come back to bite you. You want to make decisions when you are calmer and have investigated all angles as to what you need to do. You have a decision to make: 1) stay in the home and live w/her and her behavior 24/7 or 2) find a new place to live which will provide you w/peace and a place where you can go to think and begin moving forward w/your life. However, before you do anything, please consult w/a lawyer to see what your rights are. You do not want to be labeled as "abandoning your home and family". Be sure to take care of your checking/savings and credit card accounts, i.e., remove her name from them. If she is in crisis, she will begin spending more money and not care whether you and your child have everything you need. If you must support her financially, set up a separate account and have funds put in electronically so that you have a record of the deposits being made. Some of these crisis people will swear you didn't give them the money, i.e., their memories become mush the longer they go on. You need to protect yourself financially. Seeing a lawyer will help you in setting up a visitation schedule w/your child, as well as to advise you of what you will need to provide in the way of support funds...again, it's important that this financial arrangement be documented.
It sounds like you are thinking of cutting your losses, i.e., thinking about pushing for the divorce. I sincerely hope that you will take some time to think about this and do it w/a calm and clear head and not from a place of anger, disgust or from the pain it has caused you. However, whatever you decide to do, we will support you.
Neutral - you may want to pop over and visit Gordie's thread. This song seem awful familiar.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Also: Thanks for the advice job, i really need to be careful not to let myself get swept up in her whirlwind of decisionmaking right now.
Is it normal for MLCers to completely change stances within HOURS? I mean... this morning we were fighting like hell (i know i shouldn't give in to it but i was stuck with her in the car on the ride home and she kept provoking me duh) with back and forth allegations but then tonight she calmed down, even gave me that look (puppy eyes that are asking "what are we doing here? This isn't what i want) and then later she flat out came to me and said she hasn't felt this optimistic about OUR future in a long time, and that these divorce discussions have somehow lifted a great pressure of her. Not sure in what sense exactly?
Either way, i stayed calm and cautiously optimistic, i am not falling for it though this time, but let me tell you it's hard as hell to resist getting your hopes up again.
Before we talked i had the usual "hole in the stomach" because i was thinking about the whole situation and felt down, now just like magic i feel reassured and better.
My body is playing tricks on me and i need to master these emotions or i will never be whole again.
As for her coming forward to me like that, should i encourage behaviors like these or is it better to keep ignoring her even in those times?
You may want to read some of his older ones and also browse around the others in the MLC forum. There are also some interesting points of view in anything written by Jack_Three_Beans who was a bit of a legend here and was a very dear supporter of me on my own journey.
I don't know about you, but for me some of the best ways I had to understand my own journey was to watch others and to encourage them on their threads. Don't be shy of the neighbours. We don't bite.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Yes, if there is anything normal with MLC it's confusion. In the beginning my h swung around like a pendulum. I started researching brain tumors and somehow stumbled on MLC. Anyway, she may even say the most outlandish things and then not even remember what she has said. This is why we say don't believe anything they say and only 50% of what you see.
As for encouraging her to talk, sure, you can do that so long as you can just listen, not try to reason with her and take everything she says with an iceberg sized grain of salt. She will be bouncing for quite some time as she tries to figure things out. Whatever she says is just a flash of what she's thinking in that moment. It's very similar to talking with a teenager.
Anchor yourself though because if you focus on her you'll bounce right along with her. Focus on you and your family. Welcome to a supportive group.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
The thing is though, i feel almost like I should be the one to drive separation/D forward now since she doesn't seem to be able to make up her mind and I on the other hand have gathered that we are only delaying the inevitable in the sense that she has to go through that long tunnel by herself anyways and that us staying together in our house will not enable her to change as quickly as she could if that makes sense?
I mean, wouldn't it just speed up the process of her living her new life, figuring out who she is and what she wants out of life if she moved out instead of moping around here with me for god knows how long to then very likely end up in the same play ANYWAY?
Just throwing thoughts around here really as i am trying to figure out MY next move!
This would enable HER to move on/grow into a different person AND myself right? It's gonna be painful for our son no matter what so maybe THIS would be the best course of action? I'll think about suggesting to her to sell the house (even if she is attached to the idea of staying here with our son) so she can start over somewhere else (with our son) That way at least, my son won't see me as the ONLY changing factor (aka the bad guy that left the family in his eyes).
When you aren't sure what to do....then do nothing at this time. Sit quietly and the answers will be revealed to you.
I have a question for you and I want you to sit on it and really mull it over before answering it. I want you to be as honest as you possible can. What do you want? I know you would like to have your original wife back, but that's not going to happen any time soon, so what would be next on your list of "things to do and want for your life".
Let me be perfectly clear here, she's going to move along the path and heal in her own time. You can't force the issue and you certainly don't want to rush it either. She is operating on "slow" and slow it will be. You do not want to rush her and she not be healed and come back and do this again. The next time around won't be easy, in fact it is usually far worse. So, if you are thinking that a divorce will help rush the process...it may not.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
To be honest, want i want the most right now is to find a new form of stability in my life. One that does NOT depend on my wife, h@ll not anyone but on ME alone. I want to become my own man, independent and strong, that is my goal and perhaps i am starting to see the upside in all of this. Without her MLC life would probably have continued to unfold in much the same manner as before which would never have prompted me to attempt change and strive for self-improvement!
As for the D, i think we will go back to our pre-marriage financal arrangement where everyone has their own goods and that's that so only the house is split even between us. Means even if we opt for D later it shouldn't be AS big a deal (at least financially) This takes pressure off her, she even confirmed it herself and i am fine with that too.
Then i guess we will keep living here for a while and be in "Limbo" for now. Time will tell what comes next.
You are right though, i need to be patient, i caught myself being almost TOO eager now to move things forward and was even somewhat "ok" with the idea of being on my own now but i suppose that might as well have been a facade i drew for myself so i could survive/stand the thought of being alone comfortably, not sure.
Last edited by job; 01/07/1807:25 AM. Reason: edited a word
Today she told me again that i still mean a lot to her but that she just cannot see past that one incident which she now clearly defines as her "breaking point" where she could no longer hold it together.
To reiterate: Last year was an afwul year which brought me to my emotional, physical and mental limits and i was close or at a nervous breakdown because of the whole business situation (which is a story for another time really) but the short version is, i have indeed made grave mistakes and in one incident where i was so desperate for help i asked HER to handle the situation since i knew she could turn the tide with a certain situation that needed defusing. I was just at the end of my wits and desperate and asked her to help. The thing that she is rightfully accusing me of is that i should NEVER have asked her to help with my problems (which she never WANTED to be a part of) in the way that i did. I actually somewhat "pressured" her into helping by pulling the "family card" meaning i said that if we cannot resolve this situation our family will be impacted negatively as well (on emotional and financial planes) which prompted her to intervene.
I wish i could go back and undo this, i really do. By doing that i not only failed to protect my family but i gave up my "mancard" as well without realizing it and empowering HER so she felt even more that SHE was the one having to take charge of our marriage and me and everything, which is a ticking time bomb in itself.
So yeah basically she now uses this event to justify that she will not EVER be able to get with me again since all she sees is that one situation when she looks at me.
Traumatic for both of us to be sure, but i cannot help but feel that this one situation could not undo the good years that were there before...
An important component of dealing with an MLC spouse is to keep your footing and firm grip of reality. A lot of what you wrote in that post seems a little off balance. As an outsider why do you think asking her for help and support was a problem and a trigger for all this? What is the point of being married if asking for help means you’ve doomed your relationship?
And what does it mean you gave up your “man card?” How can one rather basic act doom a whole relationship?
This sounds more like the confused thinking of an MLCer. Are you internalizing her version of “reality?” Be very careful of that as you can imagine in her state you don’t want to join that reality.
I just skimmed though your thread and a lot of it reminds me of what I went through at the very beginning. I was doing the wrong things like so many of us here have during this time so it’s great you found the site early on.
Have you read the LBS stages? I found it helpful to know where I was at in the cycle.
To provide some context, she never wanted to get involved in my mother's business, didn't even want to know anything about it, so after my mother suddenly became terminally ill, i had to take over involuntarily from one day to the other which threw our family into complete chaos basically. (Priority no: 1 was to get rid of it for my family's and my own sake)
So this one day, where i was completely stuck and desperate with the whole situation, i asked/pressured her into helping me since i couldn't take it alone anymore. So that basically was the culmination of all she hated about the whole situation right there. I should NEVER have pressured her into that situation where she felt she HAD to solve it.
As for the man card, well basically, this was the last straw for her since she has felt for quite some time before already that SHE was always the one to take the reigns in most situations where it really mattered, not me (and probably rightfully so) so this thing here must have really shattered every last bit of attraction she had left for me i guess.
It makes a lot of sense in retrospect, a husband pleading to his wife to help him in a situation that HE is supposed to handle really doesn't add to the attraction factor when the marriage was already hanging by a thread
It's ok though, i realize it now and it was probably necessary for me to hit rock bottom in this way so i can wake up and begin my long overdue rebirth as a hopefully better man than i was before! I am cautiously optimistic for the first time in a long time...
Kyh:
I'll check out the stages though not sure if they always apply in the same way with everyone in chronological order like that.
Today she was gone almost all day. At the gym again where goes pretty much every day now. Anyway, afterwards she was pretty distant at first, then somewhat friendly later. We even watched some TV together which i suggested (just as friends of course).
It feels weird living with her in the same house that we used to live in as partners but now we do so as friends (at best) I wonder if we keep this up long enough if there truly won't be any more feelings between us after a while
Like how we'd quietly fall out of love completely, though i am pretty sure that is NOT what i want and i still have hope that it is not what SHE wants deep inside. When i say i am pretty sure then that uncertainty is explained by the fact that i am distancing myself from her to protect myself and what can i tell you? It's working...
So, I have now been living with the alien version of my H for about 15 months. In the first 6 months, he spewed angry hostile garbage at me constantly and I internalized so much of it. It's hard not to: he has been the most important person in my world for over 20 years, and I could only make sense of my love for him and who he had always been to me by allowing some of his garbage to become my emotional truth.
It sounds like you pushed on your W's boundaries from a place of desperation. And, that seems to be something that happens with LBS folks. That said, it takes TWO people to engage in boundary violation in this context... your W allowed it. And, so what if your W was the strong one holding the reigns sometimes? Why is that wrong? It's a system the two of you set up over a long period of time, too, and you set it up together. It's 100% completely okay to change systems you built together, but it's a shared responsibility. If your W is typical MLC, she didn't voice a lot of her concerns before and suddenly you've got you B drop.
My MLC still lives with me. I am still standing for my M, and the benefits of having my H live with me are that he gets to see all of the hard work I've put into growing and moving and becoming my best version of myself. He gets to see that these stories he's built around who I am to make sense of his cognitive dissonance aren't true. If you move out, your W won't get to see your hard earned changes. Distance DOES NOT make the heart grow fonder. So, if you're uncertain, stay where you are. By all means, do your growth. Figure out which parts of who you are need a tune up and go do those things. 100%!!! find a new stability... fall in love with hobbies, get connected, go join your own gym, find stability outside of her, YES! Because she won't be stable anytime soon and you can't have your wellness depending on her. You have to build your own new anchors. My H feels much reassured by the anchors I'm building in my life because a lot of his story is that he's had to do everything for me, be my everything, and so my becoming less dependent decreases his fear and I get to see my old H a bit more than I used to.
But, it's a long road. It ain't easy, and there are no guarantees. You could stay, stand, become your best self and your W might still leave, choose a D, get stuck in her tunnel. You have to make sure that the growth you do is for your own outcome. I tell myself pretty often that the hard emotional work I'm doing right now is going to benefit me in every version of my future, and I find that immensely comforting.
In those early days, I had to take it one minute at a time. But, if I could go back, I would have loved to have known how much time I really had... I didn't need to rush or freak out at every bump because, really, we're standing still. Every wild swing of his moods means nothing, and he only seems to think about taking any action when I lose my sense of detachment. If we ever go our separate ways, I'm sure it'll be at my initiation so I can breathe and take my time.
This is NOT your fault. You didn't break her and you can't fix her. But, you can 100% become the best version of yourself.
BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016 H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37 D 10, Son 7 M to H = 20 years EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
that really means a lot to me in this situation where i am constantly torn between moving out and staying.
Today i was looking at a place i could move in to and honestly... i could picture it right there, by myself, starting a new life!
Unthinkable just a few months ago. Doesn't it speak volumes when right now i am looking more forward to the evenings where my W is gone doing her thing than the ones she stays at home with us?
I mean.. it's like i REALLY don't know her anymore at all, like a completely different person in all aspects. Most of the time when she talks she talks about her new gym stuff and how she is doing things with her new friend (supposedly gay which i only semi-buy into but no matter) and the other time she sits there texting on her phone all the time. The couple times she DOES say stuff to me personally feels FORCED.
So to summarize, we have 2 people who kinda don't even feel comfortable around each other anymore on most days. Once in a while there's a day where i feel her trying to approach me though, like yesterday we took our son to a theme park (we used to love going before BD) and i guess she must have felt somewhat melancholic because she tried to grab my hand on several occasions and even leaned onto my shoulder while watching a show. She asked me if it was ok to do that before and honestly i was freaked and didn't know HOW to respond?
I ended up saying "It's alright" but it was awkward for me at least... What does she think is gonna happen? I'm gonna burst out with joy? I don't believe for a second that any of that has any meaning whatsoever since the next day she will be cold and distant again toward me but i guess it still felt nice for a small moment in time.
Anyway, you have made a strong case for staying and i guess in the end only I can make that decision but it's SO hard right now to make up my mind
If you aren't sure as to whether to stay or not, take a nice long weekend and go somewhere and stay over night. By doing this, it may help you decide what to do.
It's up to you as to what you do about moving out...but I would think long and hard about it and only make a decision when I am calm. Rash decisions tend to come back and bite you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks job, i guess it's still too early to make a call like that.
Earlier tonight, she made some advances towards me again, we watched a movie together and she leaned on me, which i casually accepted but then after a while i got up to go to my bedroom to sleep and then she said:
"So it's gonna be like that?"
I said "It has to be..." and left it at that... she didn't really respond.
It really just feels WRONG to let this go any further since i clearly feel that this is not the person i once knew and loved, but it is also NOT a person i'd want to be with right now since she doesn't come across as "genuine" if that makes any sense? Before all this, my wife was the most trustworthy, honest, loving, morally steadfast person i had ever known, but right now?
It's... someone completely different that MAYBE still has those qualities hidden deep inside her.
Either way, i feel strongly that if at all, i will only be able to give her... us a chance again when/if she comes out of MLC and has decided on who she wants to be.
She seriously had the nerve to ask me yesterday whether i would still go with her and our son on a holiday vacation!!!
We used to go all the time (even after BD) because at first she felt that this would help us find closer together again... which it kinda DID, but then as soon as we were back to our daily routine, things turned sour again.
Anyway, i backed out kind of by shrugging and saying "we'll see..." then she left it at that...
If she brings it up again, does anyone here have ANY experience with such a situation?
Good idea, bad idea? I mean, how could this even WORK realistically? Would we have to get two separate rooms now and one for the kid? Ugh... sometimes i feel the spiritual guidelines on how to act during this whole ordeal are well set but the practical day to day stuff is a complete MESS lol
Maybe when this will all be over one day (no matter the outcome) i should write a book on how to handle these little big problems of daily life with an MLCer!
It's up to you decide whether to go on the vacation or not. Some do go on vacation and they either sleep in separate rooms and/or beds. That would be a decision that you two would need to discuss as to the room accommodations. Who knows....she may say one room, two beds. There is no way of telling what is going through her mind because she doesn't know herself.
You have to remember that their empathy chips are broken and to them, there is nothing wrong in going on holidays or doing things together because they now look at us as just friends and nothing more.
My questions to you are: 1) How do you feel about it?; and 2) Do you think you could enjoy yourself and leave the expectations at zero during this time?
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks for the reminder... i keep forgetting that their empathy chips so to speak are indeed broken!
I feel awkward about it but at the same time i remember us always having a good time on vacations but that was the OLD her.
You know... now that i think about it, if she will keep doing what she does now, meaning sitting there texting OM CONSTANTLY then that really makes me feel invisible next to her and i am not sure i would enjoy that. I cannot however say that to her face because it would only escalate things and i am trying to be non-confrontational as much as i possibly can.
Also: Tonight i got back from a long walk with some buddies and as i was undressing and getting some stuff done she actually told me "you know, you always seem so cold and distant when you get back from your friends" I had to seriously suppress myself from either laughing out loud OR bursting out at her in a WTF manner! I mean... seriously?
Then again it goes back to what you said i guess with her empathy chip being broken. How can that be a thing though? My W was THE single most empathetic person i ever knew before MLC, how can she TOTALLY forget what that is like? To the point where even I notice it since she used to always tell me how UNempathetic i was...
In a somewhat "lucid" moment she told me today that she is feeling bad about everything that is happening and that she knows that she is ruining our lives and that it is all her fault.
I just listened and didn't know what to say... She then said that she was constantly thinking and pondering about her family and friends and what they would say when we get divorced (they're pretty traditional) so that kinda put a damper on things on my end since i thought for a second there she had a "change of heart moment" when all she thinks about is what other people would think of her in this situation.
She IS confused, she said so herself just now but i feel that inside, she really sees no other choice but to go forward with D, she is only prolonging it because she is afraid of the consequences and implications (social, financial, comfort, our son etc.)
Hang in there you may see a lot of getting close and pushing away It is not your fault and you know you cant fix her
You can take this time to work on you so whichever way your W chooses, you will be ok
I know how much it hurts-but the pain will slowly fade and you will land safely on your feet
I beleive the only way a MLCer can safely navigate their storm is with willingness to get help for themselves they cant see they are the problem and eventhough your W has moments of clarity, Im notr sure she will address her issues when Its so much easier to run and play for a while only time will tell-
watch her and do as you are. watch the finances get Legal advice to know your rights know what is best for your son
take good care of you be their for your son get some IC Do what is suggested here and you will be ok
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I believe i am more or less on track already with what is suggested (minus the couple times where i screw up of course but that happens to everyone once in a while)
The thing with with my son is very complicated actually.
She insists on keeping him, and legally there is very little (nothing basically) i can do to prevent her from doing so.
I WOULD be fine with her keeping him under normal circumstances, but as is, how can i trust her to be the mother he needs when she is this mentally unstable, almost manic-depressed and confused at times? I know i probably make this sound worse than it is in actuality since i am sure she would never endanger his actual well-being, she loves him to death. It is more subtle though, since he is very empathetic for his age and i know her depressive states WILL weigh down on him as well if her MLC won't pass or get better in time...
I'm confused? Are you saying you have no power to put in a custody claim for your son? On what grounds?
BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016 H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37 D 10, Son 7 M to H = 20 years EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
You need some good legal advice. We here don’t know your laws but certainly there must be some deference to you if your w is really off her rocker.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
I've caught up more on your thread and there were a couple things that stood out to me. Most of our situations here seem to at least contain similar elements, some even saying the same things verbatim. That said, reading your posts reminded me a lot of xw before bd. I had no idea about anything transpiring, MLC, nothing. During this time xw told me "I don't know what's wrong. Am I going crazy?" I reassured her no, I was clueless at the time. In hindsight I think this about when she decided to wade into the affair pool w/om. Also in hindsight, I started doing the wrong things shortly later as her crisis progressed. You got some really good advice about taking care of yourself right now, I don't think there is anything I could've done or said that would've helped. The only thing that did was taking care of myself and kids.
In regard to custody, I'm in a state that won't assign shared custody unless agreed upon by both parties and had to get a guardian attorney for custody recommendation. If there is no reason for you not to have your s don't roll over (trust me, being nice won't win her over, not saying not to be nice or civil but like so many say, treat it like business). Especially if you question your w's stability. I know my xw would never intentionally hurt the kids but she has. Her insanity was off the charts for awhile. I literally couldn't trust her to go to the grocery store. Do you think your w could get worse? I wouldn't agree to anything. Also, if you were to get custody you can always make it right. I did 50/50 after the recommendation was in my favor. I'm not saying that's right for everyone, but give yourself and your s what you deserve.
About the custody thing... shared custody in NOT supported by law, unless you of course agree to it BUT in practical terms that really is not what you want. The kid needs to have a place he knows he belongs to (a fixed address etc.)
So that means it's gotta be either my W or I then. The thing is though that in as much as 99% of the case where custody is disputed, the courts WILL rule in favor of the mother because we have a pretty traditional court system where this subject matter is concerned.
In other words, if we fight over it, i WILL lose unless i can somehow prove that she is COMPLETELY inept (say she were a junkie and i could prove it or other extreme cases) which is definitely NOT the case at ALL at this point and it is not what i want!!
I want our son to have a good relationship to his mother as well as to me and i believe she knows this and thinks the same so we should be able to find some kind of agreement i hope.
On an unrelated note... I truly hope she will make it through this thing someday because even if our love may be lost forever, i want to be able to talk to the sensible, good person that i KNOW is in there again some day and hopefully she will understand why i did what i did to survive, because right now i can see her somehow "reaching out" to me pretty often but it's fast lived and shallow, she is not ready for anything serious by a LONG shot (i believe you guys call it not "baked" and who knows whether she ever will be again...
So the last couple days she's been somewhat relaxed, though still absorbed by her smartphone constantly and texting someone (OM?) all the time... BUT she also tried several times to make physical contact like trying to hug me and today while doing so she even asked "is that ok if i do that?" and i really kinda freaked out...
Does she hug me as a FRIEND or what? I really can't tell if there is more behind it than that... so i said "as long as you're just giving me a hug sure..." it was really awkward, then she said "now you're confusing me??" and then we kinda left it at that and she went to do other things...
UGH i have no clue how i am supposed to react, i mean... i have put up my emotional wall and i am not ready for these things, it DOES feel good to be hugged by her yes, but we are not ready for anything more.
Did you read all of the homework that was in the posting that Cadet created on the very first page of this thread? If you didn't, you may want to go back, scroll down to the last link and read it. It might help you become stronger and more detached.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Part of the MLC dilemma is getting a lot of mixed messages confusing as it is
the MLCer is confused maybe in their mind they sway back and forth they keep us on a hook
continue to do your life work on you seek therapy and support It takes time-patience-pain-grieving The M as you knew it is over for now- It may ignite again but it will be different take care of you-learn to detach let her go be cordial kind friendly and do your life
You will know what to do when the time comes to do something right now-accept the limbo state of it all and each day you will be closer to full healing and letting go
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I get what you are all saying (and i have read the detachment article Job) but...
the thing is this: About 2 months ago i would have done ANYTHING for her to tell me what she has told me now, that she wants to get back together with me.
So i kinda feel like what if this is my last shot at getting back together with her? It is possible that if i "push her" away now (i know technically it's not pushing away when you detach correctly but it feels like it to her nevertheless) she will look elsewhere for love and attention.
I guess i already know the answer and i am just not ready to admit it
I know that there is no going back to how things were, too much has happened and has been said for that.
I also know that we are both not ready yet for a NEW relationship, since she isn't baked yet and i am not where i want to be yet as well but...here we are?
Since she is still very emotionally driven right now she will not understand what i am saying so i suppose there really isn't anything more i can do beyond what i already do.
It just drives me nuts that she has been somewhat "stable" in her behavior for a while now (about a week) which hasn't happened in a long time, since before it used to be opposite day EVERY DAY!
alanon is a 12 step program usually or wives/parents of alcoholics But it teaches detachment just like DB It is free and in most areas It might be worth checking out to learn more about detachment and taking care of oneself
I never got to that place of XH wanting to try again..so I have no experience there.. hopefully Job and others can guide you
I think different strategies work for each situation so Its hard to know without trial and error what will help/hurt your situation most One DB coach once told me: If the strategy brings spouse closer keep using it' If it pushes them away try a different one
there is also tough love, written by a pastor..I think although this one is usually not recommended on DB and I don't know enough about it to comment
hang in there but Ive heard it can also work-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Actually, the one homework assignment that I wanted you to go back and re-read is the one that Zeus posted. It is at the very bottom of the homework page. I'm reposting the link here so that others may read it as well. It's an interesting thread and one that many of us have encountered in the way of positive signs and we have thought that they were waking up or having second thoughts.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks job, i read it and it's incredibly insightful.
That said, i need HELP guys!!! I screwed up in a gargantuan way i'm afraid!!!
As i mentioned before, during the last couple days she has been increasingly trying to show affection (or what she thinks is affection i guess) by trying to hug me and making a comment here and there about our family and she basically implicitly said that she'd want to give it another shot BUT she has never explicitly said so or showed TRUE regret for what happened!
Anyway, whenever she came around to hug me or touch me i sort of played along kinda but i tried to do it as a FRIEND since i was getting along pretty well with detachment! In practical terms this has been extremely AWKWARD since she wanted more but i had to fend her hugs off somehow without insulting her, talk about walking a tightrope, but TODAY it all blew up in my face!!!
She came to hug me while i was standing in the kitchen doing some work and she wouldn't let go, i was obviously uncomfortable because it is screwing with my detachment so i kind of took her hand off of me. She then reacted and said " You know, maybe i should get a cat since i really don't know what to do with my affection" (since i don't show her any back at all) and i don't know WHAT hit me but i said "Maybe you should get a boyfriend instead"
I regretted saying that instantly!!! Not sure why those words came out of my mouth, i now suppose it's because inside, i just want things to MOVE ALONG since i am still not sure whether there is a OM and i feel like she probably HAS to walk through an affair to maybe realize what she really wants?
This sounds somewhat insane but with all that i've read that does seem to be pretty much par for the course right?
Anyway, she was shocked, and went into full combat mode as she stormed away and said "Fine then, i will! But don't complain then if i bring him into the house!" UGH i totally regret that slip of the tongue but now the damage is DONE!!!
What have i done? I feel like i said this out of either self destructive reasons since i am so fed up with the whole situation or to move things along QUICKER so we could maybe get out on the other side and have a TRUE shot at a new marriage/relationship???
I really feel like crap right now and i went back to apologize but obviously she wouldn't have any of it.
So then the "discussion" we had was totally out of control and it felt like there was no communication at ALL between us, plenty of misunderstandings and whatnot, and it ended up with her somehow giving me an ultimatum that i should tell her by tomorrow whether she should still keep our R "on hold" so that we may have a chance yet OR that she should start looking for a BF!!
I mean... What the hell am i supposed to say to that?
She ALWAYS wants a YES/NO answer and won't accept shades of grey, the thing is she doesn't even start to realize HOW far away all this is from the core message that i want her to understand.
An affair? Divorce? All that doesn't MATTER, what matters is that she gets through this and figures out who she is and what she wants and then become that person (who then may or may not want a new R with me).
So now MY dilemma is this:
After this whole mess, she will still want an answer tomorrow. And it HAS to be on HER terms not mine, problem is i don't even know what I truly want right now. I mean, i get that i have to focus on myself and our son and i was doing pretty decent even (i think at least) but at the same time i don't want to COMPLETELY push her away as i still have SOME hope left buried deep inside me (behind that emotional wall i built to detach myself from her) that the loving, caring individual i fell in love with will come out in SOME form again on the other side of this MLC some day and that a renewed me would have a shot at another R with her!
I feel like if i tell her to keep up hope for a R i am not treating her in a fair way since i will HAVE to keep detachment up but she will not understand that right now.
On the other hand if i tell her it's over and that she should look for a new BF then she probably WILL and it's ME that has driven her that far without even wanting it, how twisted
I feel powerless right now. How stupid can i be? Why did i say that? I lost control for a brief moment and look at this mess now
So things have calmed down a LITTLE, we talked a little about it and she has calmed down quite a bit now. I must have REALLY hurt her with that comment so she overreacted.
We now somewhat agreed to go back to where we were in the days and weeks before, which was her doing her thing basically and me trying to be the best i can be, as respectful and supporting of her as possible given the circumstances while still being detached (although probably not as much as i SHOULD be but it's hard since TOTAL detachment is something she can't take i guess and i don't want to totally close the door).
The thing is, i KNOW that everyone here says that the WAS has made her choice long ago and that she doesn't want ME but is just scared of the consequences of me leaving, meaning her losing the comfort and safety and all the other social implications.
I guess i just need more patience in the end so that i don't blow up like i did before with that comment anymore. I CAN'T lose my cool like that, it's extremely unhealthy for everyone involved!
I need to stick to the plan and give it time and keep standing, it's just so so hard since i have always been someone that wants to "resolve" situations so i can feel safe again, and in this case the quickest way to do that would probably be divorce/separation but maybe that is not the wisest course of action. She even said herself earlier that that is something she does not want.
It all comes down to whether i want to keep standing or give up i suppose, that is the REAL question i need to ask myself!!!!
I don't have an answer yet. Sorry for the panic post earlier guys!!! I am confused lol
I know its hard we walk on eggshells wanting an answer but it does take time and patience
If a person is sincere in wanting to reconcile, they would be willing to do counseling and let go of their partying, playmates and grow up but for the person truly in MLC I think the force is greater to play in replay for a while..they cant stop themselves time will tell
And your choice to stay and watch to see where it goes
many of us have done just that and with no regrets standing is valuable espeacilly for a time its gives everyone time t adjust grieve and work on us we know we did everything we could to help our spouse and save our M You will get more clues in the days and weeks to come remember to take care of you
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Reading through your posts and it’s late but I wanted to tell you not to beat yourself up about the slip. It happened(s) to me and probably everyone here. If you haven’t picked up on the STFU smoothies yet I’m sure you’ll come across it mentioned in others’ posts. It’s hard not to respond when caught up in the situation but as you pick up tools and work on yourself it becomes much easier to react and not respond. Especially if/when the MLCr is pulling strings or setting you up to fail. Don’t argue w/MLCr, they will bring you to their level and nothing productive will come from it.
I know it’s bad but keep your focus on yourself and S. Take care!
Last edited by job; 01/25/1808:08 AM. Reason: edited per the poster
Thanks a lot guys, this really kinda lifts my spirits a little...
Meanwhile, we have talked about the situation a bit in a somewhat calm manner and when she hugged me again today, she even noticed that i felt somewhat uncomfortable so she said "i know you don't really want this but tough luck, i am violating your boundaries" and she said it kinda jokingly, in a "i will hug you even if you don't want it" kinda way but then i just gave her a stern look and said "Exactly, you're not respecting my boundaries, and if this is to work we need to both learn how to respect each other". She turned away and got kind of sad/reflective so i can tell this got through to her at least partly.
I think she got that it's not about the hugging, i can deal with that, i just want it crystal clear that there CANNOT be more between us at this point in time, we are both not ready for it and yet we both don't seem to want to end it, so here we are!
Ugh, I am so grossed out by her "joking" about violating your boundaries. Not even remotely funny. She wants to be able to do whatever whenever and however. She knows an R is not about being able to string you like a puppet. She has been very hurtful and if she truly wants to work on the R, she will make amends and not expect you to just respond to her string pulling.
And, OUCH! Honestly, at this far in to BD, if my H had offered me our relationship back (carrot or no carrot, false offer or not), I would have danced through blazing fires if he asked me to. You are freakin' rockin it.
BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016 H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37 D 10, Son 7 M to H = 20 years EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Thanks for those words, that shows me that i may indeed be on the right path here.
Actually, i believe i just "adjusted" pretty quickly to the whole situation, because i have told myself over and over again that no matter what i will NOT want a R with her again IF it is not a completely renewed one from both sides! What is the point if we're gonna be doing this whole thing over again in a few months time? Might as well do it right now or not at all!
Maybe it's also just a matter of her having kind of lost her "charm" or her hold over me emotionally. I was very dependent on her during practically all our marriage and i only NOW realize that i can do this on my own, that i can be my own man and survive without her. This kind of scares her i think, well rather the thought of being ALONE scares her, not so much losing ME, but then that may just be the pessimist in me talking, that is speculation after all.
Well crap... Just when i thought things could kind of "settle" down a little with me keeping my distance like i was and her sort of accepting that, things escalated tonight!!!
She was alone upstairs, so when i got back she again told me how lonely she felt so i just sat beside her and gave her a friendly hug just to show her support in a way, but that i can't give her anything else atm.
Well, i guess that's just not good enough for her, because all of a sudden she burst out screaming at me how i should just make a ****ing choice to either get the h@l out or be with her!! That i have no respect for HER feelings and just look after myself. That I get to decide what is the right thing to do (distance between us) and that she has no say in that.
It's like she forgot what she did a while ago (BD) and what that did to me. It's normal i guess since her empathy chip is broken right? Maybe it's my fault in the way that i never really told her how she broke my heart by dropping that bomb though? She MUST have noticed it though....
Ugh i really don't know what to do or say anymore, driving me nuts right now.
If i COULD just leave like that i would, i really would. What about our son though? Right now she's dead set on me either staying and being with her again OR leaving the house and our son.
No middle ground right? Well, too bad that my actual goal is to eventually be with my family again but not NOW since it's freaking impossible right now?
So we talked the day after and things have calmed down again (LOL i know i know, there's a pattern here right?)
Still though, i feel that at least PARTLY she has understood a little of what i had to say. Either way though, i am now willing to give her a chance, strictly on a platonic level though, i am not ready for anything more, and i hope she understands that because it is all i can give for now.
I just need more confidence in what i am doing and stick to the PLAN d@mnit! I now decided to STAND so i will, and i need to be more patient, that is the name of the game and i am having trouble with reminding myself of this every single time she goes nuts...
Last edited by job; 01/30/1809:30 AM. Reason: edited a word
I don't have much to offer for advice, you're situation is difficult. What you wrote about her partly understanding reminded me of early into this (before I found out about mlc, this site, etc.) when I was trying to deal w/xw and talking to her rationally. During a possible moment of clarity (but who knows) I asked her to go to m counseling. She agreed but then the next day told me I "tricked" her into it and monstered. I guess what I'm saying is that they change on a dime so don't put stock in her listening to rational thinking. Maybe it is a good thing but keep your expectations at zero.
I like what you wrote about sticking to a plan. It's hard to be consistent when in the mix of things but for me, once I could be calm and consistent, was when I finally got away from the madness (mostly anyway).
So we're going on a vacation this weekend, for a whole week. Mostly to get some sunny days since this winter has really been depressing in addition to this whole thing with grey skies and cold, dreary weather for what feels like 3 or 4 months straight
We'll see how it goes i guess, it will be good for the kid either way.
Today she told me how she was feeling lonely even though she was standing right next to her husband and her son. I just said "i know the feeling" and we kinda left it at that...
I kinda feel like we are somewhat stuck in this situation, neither of us really knows what to do move things forward, and neither of us really wants to take decisive steps to end our relationship/marriage. Not sure how long this can go on like this...
Anyway, i'll report back once we get back from the vacation!
Good luck on the vacation. Will you be sleeping in the same bed? I’d just focus on the kids and having a good time...for them. Extended periods with your spouse in close quarters can be exhausting so do take care and maybe schedule some alone time just for yourself. Wake up before everyone else and watch the sunrise. Something like that.
How long can you stay in limbo? Here’s the secret: you can choose to answer that question just for today. You don’t need to make long term plans at this stage. Take your time. No pressure on her or you. One day at a time.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Thanks Gordie, that sounds like good advice, and we do have more rooms available this time, but i honestly don't know yet what will happen. If it is like at home, then i sometimes sleep in another room and sometimes in our main bedroom. This happens mainly when she feels very lonely and asks me to be there (nothing sexual) to sleep better... I haven't agreed to that for a long time but recently i kinda softened up and agreed. I guess i will file that under "kind/loving but detached" ugh.
The thing with the long term thing is that i have always been a guy that wanted to know where things were headed, planning EVERYTHING in advance and only taking on battles i knew i could win. Well i guess that attitude doesn't serve me all that well with things to come here so i will try and focus on one day at a time for now.
I guess overall things went OK! I mean, we got into a fight once where i had to actually leave the place to get some air for things not to escalate further. When i got back, she was a lot calmer, so i gave her a hug and things went well for the rest of our time there. I guess overall we're being a lot nicer to each other but that is maybe more due to the fact that i am now somewhat "catering" to her needs more and just kind of getting better at accepting the fact that things will be different from now on.
She IS trying to start things with me once in a while, like she's trying to seduce me but i won't have it and i think she is starting to get that now.
On the way home we had a pretty big talk where i was brutally honest with her and i told her that the reason i can't take her back right now is because she flat out broke my heart and i need time to heal and to see that things can be stable again. Well, she was VERY surprised to hear that!!! She would have never guessed that she broke my heart by doing what she did!! LOL, i mean how far removed from reality can you BE?? That is not what i told her obviously but i thought to myself "well DUH, when the love of your life that you have been with for nearly 20 years and that you envisioned the rest of your life with basically tells you it's over and she wants divorce, OF COURSE you're gonna be freaking heart-broken!!!"
Anyway, i kept my cool and we had a good long talk and as usual i am not sure ANY of this sticks in the long term but it felt good to get it off my chest anyways!
Things have been quieter, calmer now and i am not sure to take that as a good sign or not but hey, i take what i can get right?
She is still very self absorbed, and kind of does the same things as before but i get the feeling that she is less angry with me now, though who knows how long that will last lol.
So basically... we had a "discussion" yesterday evening that got somewhat heated and it was actually her telling me that i am ignoring her efforts to get back together, so she got mad and it ended with her kinda giving me an Ultimatum "Either love me, or leave me"
And you know what? She's right! I mean... i AM purposely giving her the cold shoulder when she has tried multiple times now to initiate intimacy...
The thing is, it just doesn't feel RIGHT you know? I don't feel that warmth, that vulnerability, that LOVE emanating from her like it used to before her MLC. All i see is the MLCer that is more pre-occupied with her new fun life than with me and so i am not sure what she is trying to do exactly when she is initiating intimacy?? Does she do it just to see how i react? DOes she genuinely believe that a serious relationship is possible the way she is right now? Does she just want casual sex?
Honestly, i feel like i'd be betraying myself and all i have now fought for by giving in.
But then, on the other hand, maybe i am just scared? I am so afraid of getting hurt again that i'd rather not give her a chance... Yes she IS "imperfect" right now, she is unstable and volatile and messy and totally contradictory. A part of her is also the woman i used to love and still do love though.
What do you guys think? If she really wants to give it a shot, won't i be destroying my chances by rejecting her now? My gut tells me to not give in but i have been wrong before about these things and i am really confused
I don't get this woman. I mean... the last couple days she was somewhat "tender" towards me, hugging me, always searching for physical contact, even gave me a kiss on the cheek the other day while we were just sitting there playing cards with our son.
So i kinda took all that as at least SOMEWHAT "positive" signs right? Sure, i know, always keeping my expectations in check but it showed me that she sort of still cares a little about me at least right?
Then today, she tells me that her new best friend, and i won't call him OM (yet?) because apparently he's gay (i'm not naive btw but then i also kinda do believe her at the same time) suggested they go on a vacation for a weekend or 3 days to a foreign city.
She's all excited now and they were planning their stay and details about the trip all day long via text messaging, she basically was texting all day long with only few intermissions...
Yeah. I KNOW what that sounds like, but then i don't get those conflicting signals she is sending me, like why hug me and show me affection? Is it possible that she really DOES only want to go there with him as a friend? Am i making myself go crazy because of maybe unfounded jealousy?
And yes i know that even if there is no sexual component to them, it's always kind of emotional cheating right? When you are THAT absorbed by somebody else, then that kind of does take things too far doesn't it?
As you can see it's VERY hard for me to differentiate here from what is right and wrong and how much is ENOUGH for me? Where do i draw the line? You'll probably tell me that only I can answer that question sigh...
Anyway i can sort of "feel" that she is torn and undecided still and doesn't know what she wants and maybe we need to take it a step further to find out? She even said the other day "maybe we do need to divorce to find out whether we are supposed to be together or not"
Thoughts, comments, all appreciated!
Last edited by job; 03/01/1809:37 AM. Reason: added space between paragraphs
This is call MLC and it's mass confusion and mixed signals. That's why it is very important to step back, detach lovingly and try not to over analyze their every word and move. One minute she's all lovey dovey to you and the next she's talking about doing something different. She's bouncing off the walls.
You really do need to step way, way back and allow her to founder in the ocean of confusion and find her way back to the real world. You can't help her because you didn't break her. Keep the focus on you and your family. She needs to do this on her own. You are still trying to look at her as your "old wife" and this woman is someone very different from the one you knew.
Step back! The more you try to talk to her about the situation, the more she'll like the idea of divorce.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I get it, i do but... then she keeps somehow wanting my "approval" as well for what she is doing you know?
Like today, during a quiet moment she was asking me whether i was "ok" with her going on that trip with her male friend like she was asking for permission kinda? I kept cool and told her that if she really felt like she wanted to do this then she should and that it was not up to me to decide for her. I also told her that i did at first feel a little strange about the whole situation but that after thinking it over, it shouldn't be a big deal which is kinda the truth.
I also told her that if roles were reversed SHE would feel very strange about it to say the least if i were to go off on some trip to a foreign country with a female friend that was supposedly lesbian and even she had to agree there lol.
So yeah, she sometimes is not without self awareness and moments like those make me feel like all hope may not be lost just yet.
Anyways i have to work on keeping my expectations LOWER and yet be a content person by myself, but exactly THAT point is very hard to achieve it seems, since i have ever only felt "complete" with her, so this is a whole new ball game now.
Have you ever considered that she's thinking like a child and is looking to you, as her father figure, for approval?
Crisis people need approval and affirmation from us...but, in this case, I think you responded to her in a very good way. It's good to things back in her court and give her something to think about.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Yes that did occur to me before, it also feels like that very much at times...
The thing is though, while one moment she does that, she will lash out at me the next, telling me how she can't stand it anymore that i am constantly taking control of everything, her included! That i have always been too dominating in our relationship and that i will not accept anyone else's opinion but my own etc. etc.
While there is truth to all this, she presents it in such an extreme way that it makes my head spin!! She won't take charge for taking care of our son since she is constantly gone and when i take matters into my own hand since there IS no one else anymore, then she will criticize me right after for it, telling me how she would have done it much better!
We really ARE dealing with teenagers here people. Only it's MUCH worse because she is STILL better at managing our household (she was the one that did it before MLC anyway for a good reason) while i just do it because i HAVE to since no one else will, which is fine really, i just wish she would appreciate it a little or at least not nitpick things and start a fight over it again.
But there we go, it's always the same isn't it? She is just provoking me so she can justify her actions and how it really is for the best to go for divorce... maddening stuff, it really is.
1. It is very confusing how she can flip flop on how she acts towards you day to day or even minute by minute. I’m a slow learner and it took me months to detach from the roller coaster. One minute I thought she’s being nice and maybe we’ll reconcile! The next I thought, it’s over—there is no hope! This is why they say you need to find your own center. Stop giving her the power to control how you feel about life...and most importantly, about you. Can you have a great day independent of how your w acts? She is happy and affectionate? You have a great day! She is angry and critical about your every move? You have a great day! This is really hard, but you can do it.
2. My w too was a grade A wife, mother and the home was her castle. And then she checked out and left me to pick up the pieces. There are a lot of us guys here in that boat. I frankly did not know how to cook well, clean well, or take care of the children well. And when I started to do so out of necessity? Yes, all I got was criticism. Ignore all criticism. If she doesn’t like the food you are cooking, she can cook for herself, etc. You’ve gotta figure out how to do this your way. Will she appreciate your efforts? No, not at all and this is why you have to have no expectations.
This is a marathon, so keep your chin up and take one step forward at a time.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
I have been following along ever since you arrived. I have not checked in as I have no experience in a sitch like your. My W BD me and kids after Tday supper, revealed her affair and BF, abdonded her kids, and moved in with OM all in the same evening.
Similar to Gordie, the house was W’s domain. She ran it for the last 29 years. I cook no where as good as W did, man what i’d give for one of her dinners again. Sigh. Actually I don’t do any of the thing she did as well as she did.
However, don’t you worry about comparing your efforts to her past accomplishments. You just do the best you can, learn from it, and ignore the criticism. Do it your own way. If she ever does offer something constructive or helpful, pick up on it, thank her, and do it. I am not sure how often that may happen but I suspect it will be seldom.
I do feel for you having to interact daily with the selfish and teenage version of your W. Stay strong, find your center, and remain detached (I’m working on that too).
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Gordie, DnJ, thanks a lot. Just KNOWING that there are people out there that are going through similar things helps me. It helps me because i know i am not alone and i firmly believe that one of the worst emotions a human being can feel is loneliness in all it's iterations, so this helps a lot!
I understand that my situation seems to be somewhat different in that she still stays here and did not move out. Well i guess it has to do with the fact that she knows she can't just leave because it would cripple her financially and she still has the sense to not let that happen. She also wants to keep the house if we were to separate so she'd kinda HAVE to be on at least semi good terms with me to negotiate something ugh.
Recently though i get the feeling that she now kinda wants the best of both worlds, meaning her new exciting teenage life AND the stability of a comfy home, her son and me included.
And surprisingly enough, i can deal better with that situation than i thought for now. I do however, snap on occasions, where i find myself really distressed emotionally which reminds me that this cannot go on forever!
Patience, patience, patience! is the mantra that i keep repeating to myself over and over again these days. This is not the life i want for myself, but it is the life i am willing to accept for now until she snaps out of it either one day or gradually...
That is my hope, not sure just how LONG i can keep this up though !
1. It stinks to think your w is just in it for the house or financial reasons. Sometimes I feel the same way.
2. You don’t need to know how long you can do this. Just ask if you want to do it today? And what are your boundaries?
3. Yes, what you wrote on my thread. Let’s strive to be confident mm who do not need external validation. Does James Bond need someone else to tell him he kicks arse? Heck, no!
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
This really [censored]... today she was home for lunch and then had to leave again briefly after... i told her that i thought it was kind of sad that she is almost never home (since i DO miss her at times) and then she kinda reciprocated by saying that she really doesn't like this situation either and that it is ME who is keeping her at distance and that she doesn't know how long she can take this!
UGH, yeah well, of course i keep her at a distance after what has happened??? She doesn't realize that her heart isn't in it and that she is not "free" for me right now. She is a total mess, constantly tired, depressed, yet is chasing the next kick by going away for a weekend with a friend or by going to the gym every day or whatever.
The thing is: She tells me that by pushing her away like i am supposedly doing, i will destroy our chances at an eventual getting back together. I CANNOT however, bring myself to get back together with her romantically as that would require a level of trust, of intimacy that just is not THERE atm? So we are both stuck neither here nor there.
At a loss here
I guess riding it out is really the ONLY course of action here right? I doubt she would be willing to go to therapy with me...
I don't even wanna ask anymore as that puts pressure on her again and pushes her away even further.
I am going to give you my opinion on your sitch. First off I am not a big proponent of using MLC as an excuse. Everyone on this board could argue to a certain extent that their spouse is going through MLC. We are and our spouses our all fuching adults and are responsible for our actions. "MLCers" don't commit murder right? Why? Because their actions are controllable and they are aware of the consequences when they commit murder.
IMO based on three years of research your main problem is that you are acting like the woman in the relationship and that is a big turn off to your W. For C sakes, she tried seducing you and you rejected her because of your feelings???? You are always talking about your feelings which is feminine energy. You are not acting like the leader of the house which is masculine energy. You are letting her manipulate you mainly because you are afraid to lose her.
Until you start acting like a man that loves and values himself enough to put up with this BS behavior you will see zero change in your sitch. I am 99% sure she is in an A and no she can't go on a trip with another man while she is married to you.
Can you control her? No! But you get to decide what you will tolerate. As Sandi says "get your fuching b@lls out of your Ws purse" and decide what kind of boundaries you are going to set up to protect yourself.
I get what you are trying to say LH19... to me however, sex with her is something i only want when there is love involved.
You see, i kinda have a bad history with getting "used" for sex when there's no other emotions in it, and that doesn't sit well with me anymore so i'm not having any more of that! I mean sure, when both parties KNOW it's just sex like a one night stand with a stranger, then fine, whatever floats your boat, but in this case where i still love this woman and she just wants to have sex but nothing else, it's a pretty lonely feeling for the left behind party that you don't really want!
As for the boundaries, yeah, i feel like i am not sure how far i wanna go since i still love her and don't want to push her away... which might be exactly what will happen if i am not clear with her. Well, my method has had SOME success at least since we are still not divorced so... the thing is figuring out where to head from here.
As for MLC and responsibility yeah... sure they're responsible for their actions but so are Teenagers and yet they're often making terrible decisions because they just don't know any better at that time in their lives.
So you are going to compare a 16 year old kid w/o life experiences to a forty year old mother of a young child? Fine! How do you control at rebellious teenager? With boundaries! Right now you are enabling her behavior and affair!
No one will ever treat you in a way that you don’t allow them too. IMO if you don’t set some boundaries, you are in for a long period of soul sucking limbo.
can you post a short summary on your profile? I only ask b/c it would help me recall your backstory without having to go all the way back to the beginning.
More later...and thanks
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I read thru your whole thread. What LH says really rings true to me. Sorry, but your situation is Not that uncommon around here, and it hit me the same way it hit LH.
You feel some responsibility for the messy issues in the m, which you helped create in b/c evidently you had some deficits as a h. You describe them as "many" and as fairly serious. Okay, I get that. It is NO small thing.
It's hard work to SEE our flaws, CHOOSE to change, and then MAKE the changes, AND KEEP them.
I know this from personal experience.
If I were you, I would absolutely work on those traits, b/c they are not desirable in you, according to YOU.
We all have our "stuff" to work on and sometimes we can be brought to our knees realizing our part in the pain we feel.
But not changing is pretty crazy, (against our own interests), it's selfish b/c it hurts others, and it's cowardly not to work on those.
We all have to face ourselves and "man/woman up" to be our best selves - or at least not our mediocre selves.
Having said that^^^, and stipulating that ^^^^ it's a big deal, there is something else going on here.
You & your w are not behaving like a married couple.
Your marriage started out in an unusual way b/c you said you only married to purchase a home, so the relationship sounds as if it began as less than a committed marriage usually begins.
So maybe there has been a lack of clarity about what your relationship really is, for some time.
For a marriage or R to last, the people in it have to have similar views of what that relationship is, and what it takes from each to keep it going.
Seems you two have different views of what you each committed to, and what you are each willing to do for the relationship itself.
She's got one foot out the door and has said as much. In some ways you do too.
You are there as a father to your son, as a housemate and sometime companion to your wife...
It's almost as if you have put yourself into the role of a gay friend.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I do not know why you'd enable her to go on a trip with a man.
I don't care if she says he's gay. First, 1) I do not believe he's gay, and
2) second, even if he is, it's very inappropriate for a married woman to take a trip away from her son and h, with another man. Period. (Maybe she's laying the groundwork for other trips with other men, or maybe this is the OM.)
Certainly I don't think rolling over on that will re-attract her to you. I think just the opposite.
Of course you cannot stop her. You are not in control of her.
But what is with the wishy washy response when she asked?
IMO, when a wife asks her h if he's okay with her going on a trip with OM, she's practically begging for a boundary (AND OR consequence) to know how far she can push you
and you just said "farther...maybe"
I like she wants to see IF there are any limits to what she can do around you. Any boundaries.
Boundaries are about what YOU will tolerate, what YOU will accept. You are not drawing boundary lines around her, you are drawing them around You.
If she brings him into the home and says he's just giving her a "massage" in the bedroom, what then?
If she doesn't come home at night, and shrugs when you ask her WTH is going on, what then? Is there anything she could do that would cause you to leave the home or marriage? I am asking if you have any internal boundary or line beyond which she cannot go.
Think about it...
As for the sexual interests she displays to you and which you reject (& it IS rejection, whatever the reason),
I am not very clear about your hopes with this course of action. What conditions are you attaching to intimacy, a deep emotional connection?
I certainly get that. But I'm a woman.
I don't get what you expect or want to happen because of this rejection.
Is it that you think she'll 1) realize that she wants you,
2) and then she will spontaneously decide to recommit to the marriage, and
3) after a period of some undetermined time, IF you feel safe enough, then you will resume an active sexual life?
I'm literally just asking.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
As far as the marriage thing is concerned, we have been together for 10 years before marrying and it was always clear to both of us that we were boyfriend/girlfriend, and that we'd stay together forever... we felt no need to marry, then when the thought came up of buying a house together, the idea came from HER to marry to make things more official and because it had some legal benefits. So generally speaking this should NOT have changed a thing within our relationship since it was just a formality basically.
Fast forward to a year ago almost now where her MLC started and where she's telling me that she feels constrained by our marriage, but really i think it was more the daily routine that she couldn't take anymore, note she has always been depressed once in a while too over the years, so that kinda feeds into it.
As for the sex thing, it's simple really, it was always an issue between us that she wanted to have more sex than i did. Her libido is just greater than mine. So a couple months ago i tried to give her that and it just didn't feel right to me. I felt like i was being used for sex since at that point she was already in full MLC mode with basically a broken empathy chip. I have realized that most of the time i DO want the love component when i am sleeping with her so that kinda traumatized me i suppose.
And yes, the idea is that we need to rebuild TRUST between us since right now there isn't much trust left on both sides. I love her and still want this to work and i have told her as much but i don't see a way if she doesn't change.
As for boundaries, it's really not that easy since the whole reason for her MLC IS the fact that she feels constrained and that i am holding her back from realizing her potential. (of course that i just a facade for deeper issues) she is projecting her issues onto me which i guess is absolutely typical for a spouse in MLC, it's textbook really.
Of course i wouldn't admit an other man in our house, but she still has the sense to not even go there.
Interesting though that you say she is ASKING For boundaries... i haven't seen it like that yet, and maybe it is time for me to make a statement now. Though i WILL wait with that until we have both signed the "post-nup" agreement so that our finances are separated nice and cleanly if things were to go south after all.
Re sex, I understand what you are saying in the reverse in that my w has said the same to me. I don’t know if now is the time to address your sex life but I think it must be at some point. She is frustrated because she isn’t getting what she wants. You are frustrated because you aren’t getting what you want. This is a common and bridgeable gap.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
I read over your last post (still wish you'd put a summary in your signature block to remind us of your history).
So, when a woman does not feel desired by her h, it's a bigger blow to the ego than men realize. And
It's unusual, and the rarity of it makes it harder on the ego, imo.
I think it's ironic to hear you say you felt used for sex, as opposed to her really needing and wanting more intimacy and more passion. Many people feel closer with sex, as it's a bond.
Food for thought.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Before MLC, whenever we slept together it was good for both of us, it just wasn't often enough for her. During MLC though (when we were still intimate which we haven't been now for more than 2 months mainly because i don't allow it under these conditions) it didn't feel "right" as that "passion" or feeling of vulnerability/love that was always present in our earlier relationship was gone. It was like i was a one night stand for her and that is simply something i will not accept! I am her HUSBAND, not some affair or whatever that you can treat like that. So yeah, as you can tell, that incident really turned me off and i kinda vowed to not sleep with her again until we had a sort of actual relationship going again.
Which right now, is looking very unlikely i'm afraid, since most of the time she has no empathy towards me at all... I mean there is a moment here and there where it would seem she is looking through her MLC, but those moments are rare.
Without empathy, there can be no love. It's as simple as that really.
So i now have the choice to stay the course and hope things will improve over time OR i could take the risk and be intimate with her hoping it's gonna change things for the better. If it won't though, i will have lost ALL credibility since once again i won't STICK to a decision i made
It all is really confusing in my mind and i am at a loss here...
I think there's been a pattern of behavior and a resentful dynamic in your m that got you here. No forgiveness asked for or given.
Also, the DB principle about doing what works, is being lost here.
In The above post I asked about your expectations of your w, what you thought would happen - given your refusal to have sex without conditions precedent.
Can you answer those questions?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Oh she is definitely in an MLC, it really doesn't get any clearer than this, as she is displaying literally ALL the "symptoms" and telltale signs of an MLC with no exception at all.
It may have been triggered by this resentful dynamic, but probably also by the death of her father and this very hard time we had to go through as a couple due to the earlier mentioned business liquidation.
As for your question, it was definitely number 3! It was always the idea that once i felt "safe" enough to be able to trust her again we'd resume an active sex life (preferably a better, healthier one than before, where i'd make a great effort to contribute to that)
In the meantime, things were going decent i THOUGHT for a couple weeks now... but then yesterday she completely broke down again in the sense that she told me this really isn't gonna work out and that she tried but in the end she cannot see herself living with me for another 40 years. She said she is now in the middle point in her life and that she now wants to start over with someone else who gives her excitement and makes her feel "alive" again, she craves FREEDOM, spontaneity, and excitement which i cannot give her i guess. She also said that if we didn't own the house together and that if the kid wasn't there, she'd be gone already.
So yeah... basically what happened was i slowly built my trust up towards her over the last weeks and i thought things were going well actually, only to be completely CRUSHED again just yesterday.
Thing is after telling me all this of course... she also told me that she loves me and that she is confused and that she doesn't know what she wants.
After i told her that "if that is truly how you feel, then i really don't want to stay with you anymore, i deserve someone who appreciates me for who i am and for what i do. I deserve to be loved" she kinda backed up a little and said that i should give her a couple more weeks to think it over and that we shouldn't rush things now and that i probably shouldn't take everything 100% serious when she is in state of mind like that.
WTF! So yeah, you get my dilemma here, she is totally lost, totally confused emotionally. She doesn't want what she has, she wants something else, something more, but then when it's looking like she is losing it for good, she paddles back and can't go through with it.
Drives a guy crazy. I feel like I need to make a stand here and give HER a sort of ultimatum, or at least a CHOICE.
She either takes me as i am and loves me, (note that of COURSE i am willing to make changes and become a better husband during this) and by "as i am" i mean the CORE of my being.
Or she makes up her d@mn mind and tell me it's OVER for good so i can move on with my life.
Does that sound like a good idea here? I feel like i kinda should do that but it may the be the exact thing that will drive her away for good? Just not sure how long i can this up emotionally before breaking down completely...
I don't see her being confused at all. She told you exactly how she feels RIGHT NOW. She doesn't want to be with you anymore and the only thing standing in her way is the house and the kids.
The question is are you ok with this? Do you want to be with someone who is staying for the kids?
Talking to her about making choices won't work. She's admitted that she's confused at heck. Generally the MLCer will take the road of least resistance, which means...she may very well say it's over.
The best thing you can do is learn to live your life for you at the moment. Leave her to her nonsense and allow her time to figure herself out. She can't do that if you are putting pressure on her. I know you want answers yesterday...but you aren't going to get the answers you want right now.
Start living your life and do things w/o her in them. If she truly wants to be w/you, she will find a way to do so. She is a roommate at the moment...she fired you as her husband. Expectations are going to make you frustrated and angry...she has nothing to give you at the moment but false words and stringing you along because she honestly does not know what she wants on any given day when it comes to a relationship w/you. Remember...this is her journey to self discovery. You were not invited on that journey, but someone left at the shore watching her travel across the sea to self discovery.
Keep the focus on YOU!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
They say no R talks. I thought that was to take the pressure off your w. But it also saves you the heartache of hearing all the crazy and contradictory stuff floating around their heads?
An ultimatum? It’s up to you but only if you are really done and willing to follow through with it. And only you know that. If you don’t know if you are ready, then you are not. Wait until you know in your soul it is right for you. Don’t make any emotional decisions. If it’s all too much right now, take a few days away from her and settle yourself down.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Wish it were that simple... i still love her and i want this to work but then yeah i kinda do get the idea that she is just stringing me along because she does not see any real way out financially and also because she is in love with the idea of our family and that she is indeed TRYING to somehow make it work but her feelings of wanting freedom and wanting to try something else get in the way.
Maybe part of the problem is also ME not really making a stand here, maybe she is indeed LOOKING for me to put down my foot and either show her the boundaries OR make it crystal clear that i love her and that i am her husband and that i want us to be together. This HAS been an issue in the past (and present still) where i have problems making up my mind and taking a firm decision.
Anyway, so later in the day things calmed down as they often do between us and she was tired so she was lying down next to me and let me stroke her hair (something we often do still) so she clearly lets me give her SOME tenderness. Later on when she woke up she even gave me a little kiss on the mouth but when i leaned in for more she said that she cannot do that right now. This is of course what i read in another thread here, where women sometimes do this since they're not really in love with you or not ready for more than small caresses etc. ugh
It's all just so freaking SAD to be honest, it's breaking my heart just thinking about it... our son LOVES it when we're all together doing things like a real family and my W enjoys it too at that time... i love her and she loves me( granted the kind of love she has for me is probably varying all the time in her mind and heart) yet we cannot seem to find a way to communicate our true feelings the right way to each other.
She even told me today that all the things she is doing right now with her new best friend (not gonna call him OM since he is gay and it's platonic, 99% sure) like going to the gym all the time, going on crazy trips for a couple days, going out late at night having fun, she'd rather do them with ME than with him even, but she can't since i am not the kinda guy for that anymore. I am not spontaneous enough for her (there is truth in this) i am way too cautious, reasonable, and paranoid for her to have fun in the same way with me and that is what she is craving now.
I am pretty much venting here, but yeah i do agree that i probably should put the focus back on myself instead of trying to accommodate her every need like i have been for the last couple weeks, but then she'd tell me again how i obviously do not love her unconditionally and that i don't put her FIRST which was always a reproach that she made me earlier in our relationship and she was RIGHT as i was damn selfish and am only now trying to be a better husband/man.
The thing is, it's killing me though. I am not sure if i can keep this up, i WANT to be there for her, help her and support her every way i can to show her how much i love her but i don't feel her behavior changing in any meaningful way. As long as she doesn't know whether she wants to be with me for good or not, things won't make sense, there won't be any real relationship.
I honestly kinda feel like a doormat at times and i don't like it. It's all SO hard to juggle emotionally that it's tearing me apart at times... I am also struggling with GAL these days. Whenever i see her i want to be NEAR her even if it's emotionally draining, i miss her a lot
All the signs point towards this R being TOXIC to my emotional sanity, yet i can't quit as i love her and i love our family, it's all i've got really.
I am a relative newbie and not anywhere in your situation (no kids). So take this 2x4 with a grain of salt:
STOP. Stop now. Everything says this is not about you. Everything says this is fundamentally an issue that has been lurking in your wife. Everything says she and ONLY SHE can navigate through this, and that there is no guarantee she will come out of it. IF she does there is no guarantee you can reconstruct your marriage.
BUT EVERYTHING you are doing right now is wrong. It will only hurt you, it will not help her, and if anything it MAY reduce the chances of your marriage surviving. I think you know all this. And yes I completely understand how much it hurts to love someone who is in this state, want to protect and be there for them and to hope for restoring what you had. BUT COME ON accept that your marriage as you knew it is OVER.
Hanging around, caressing her, hoping for a kiss and for her to "wake up" right now is definitely like sticking your hand in the fire. Guess what the fire will burn just as it was, but you are the one who is burning off your flesh for no reason.
Detach now. Get a life now. Start focusing on yourself NOW. Focus on your kids NOW. And do this knowing it is the right path for YOU and it also happens to be the right path to let her go, create the space for her to go through this. You can not "put your foot down" and make her see, the core of this issue is for your wife to finally decide, stand, exist and FEEL all on her own, without ANY outside influence pulling her to or pushing her away.
Detach doesn't mean to not love, it means to love from a distance because you know to love her right now you have to let her go. And to love her means you HAVE to get yourself to a balanced space where you don't need her, to make sure you can still be there when and if she is ready to come back. Otherwise when she gets there you will be so broken and hurt that you may very well hate her.
the thing is figuring out where to head from here.