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NicoleR Offline OP
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Thanks Sotto, Caz, and Maika. Yes this is the worst side of my husband and me as well.

I apologize everyone, I'm not trying to bombard this forum. Hopefully things will get under control soon, one way or another. But I find myself stuck between two options and I need to choose one.

One option will be to expedite the end to this marriage however detrimental it is to my health and psychological wellbeing. It seems my husband is fine with this option. He just wants to get rid of me at this point. But realistically I'm barely functioning right now. I can't even make a rational decision. There's no way I can face my husband in mediation these next few weeks and sit and talk without hysterically crying and probably ending up in the hospital because I'm barely making it right now. It might get my credit card bills paid, but will it fix the overall problems in our life? We still have to communicate to raise our daughter. We still have 11 years of history behind us. We're still linked in most aspects. I don't want to stick to a man who doesn't want me but I find myself desperately searching and wondering if there's a better way than this.

Then my thoughts shift to the fact that I've made so many mistakes recently. Due to my health and anxiety about everything I haven't been truly getting a life. When I did that two years ago my husband was back within eight weeks. This time I'm trying to stay busy and plan but mentally I'm not there. I'm not thinking or acting in a way that would make me attractive to anyone. I'm trying to look at myself objectively and believe I've been making major mistakes that have pushed my husband away further. On top of everything I'm so worried now about being in debt that now I've pressured my husband into divorce as an option to formalize this separation.

There's just the sheer agony of two years of a non-responsive, neglectful, cheating husband but I also recognize that all the major life stressors that we could face came at once. What if I take out a personal loan to pay my bills and cover my moving costs and just continue to stay separated until I'm stronger and more independent? Then file for divorce...

I don't know if I have that option now. My husband said he's done and he should have divorced me long ago, etc.. but I just wonder if I'd be better off being stronger first before ending the marriage, with that 1% glimmer of hope that possibly we were both not in our right minds and might see the light someday or if I should just expedite the end to something that wasn't meant to be.

I feel so lost. I'll see my therapist next week, will talk with friends, and would appreciate your input. I guess at the end of the day I need to decide for myself. Thanks again. I feel I took too much of everyone's time without properly responding to each of your thoughtful messages.

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NicoleR Offline OP
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Sorry one more thing - I was reading some articles about divorce and separation. It seems once people are separated there's only a 5 - 10% chance they'll ever reconcile. Does that sound right? If that's the case then it seems most us here are doomed even if we practice DB.

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kml Offline
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In my state you can file an order for temporary support while the divorce is in process - did your attorney mention that?

When I went through my mediated divorce, my ex and I each had our own private attorney that we saw on the side. We would go to the mediator, then run things by our private attorney. They were a good sounding board and could give you an idea whether the negotiated results were fair and similar to what you would win in court.

Stop worrying about the effects of this on reconciliation. This part is about business. No woman here ever won her husband back by being a doormat. I suspect the main reason he hasn't filed these last two years is because he knows he'll have to give you more money in a divorce.

Keep your daughter safe, get your fair share of the money and support, and document EVERYTHING including statements like his last one. He sounds sociopathic and I'd move far away as soon as legally possible.

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P.S. Let go or be dragged.

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NicoleR Offline OP
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KML, there's nothing in my state except divorce. It's a very backwards state in my opinion. I like the idea of my husband and I each having our own lawyer plus a mediator but the only way that'd be an option for me right now is to either borrow $10 - 20 grand from a friend or to first get a job and save for it. As stated I also don't know how I can face my husband in mediation these next few weeks. There's no way I'm in a good enough mental state to get through this and fight for what I need.

Right now this is about business but at the end-of-the-day I need to move and get a new job in addition to getting support from my husband. I need to think a little more. I will definitely document everything. I will soon be physically away from my husband as soon as I move, divorce or no divorce.

Thanks so much for your input.

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I'm in the UK Nicole and XH and me D'd collaboratively at my suggestion. It is a newish thing here to try and minimise the conflict of the D process. L's need to be specially trained in order to support collaborative divorces.

Normally here, there are facilitated meetings for you with both your L's present. But the L's tend to be on better terms with each other if they are 'collaborators' and there is less adversity in the process. For us, we did no meetings as XH is about 4 hours away and we felt we could manage to agree things without the need for meetings. I was relieved as I too dreaded that. I felt I could manage a Skype meeting, but it never came to that.

For me, the total legal bill was around £4K, which I was happy with. We didn't have children together, but we did have a couple of properties and co-joined finances. I set up a direct debit for £100/month to spread the legal fees payments. Then I would receive a quarterly bill and settle anything owing in that quarter. I was working, but pretty broke during that time, and it was manageable for me.

I just wondered whether you might have similar options over there? Also, please try and let go of the feeling that you are doomed if you are unable to save your marriage. Truly, a happy and peaceful life lies the other side of this for most people in our situation. I really hope you will remember that - your future happiness does not depend on the restoration of your marriage...

Xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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NicoleR Offline OP
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HI Sotto, yes that option does exist here. That's what I suggested to my husband since it avoids the court system and is supposed to be a less expensive and more peaceful process. Hopefully that's what we'll do if everything proceeds. I just hope it can be delayed a bit.

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Nicole,

I'm sorry, but it is time for you to "man up". I don't know that I have ever heard, read or seen something as awful as what this man said to you, much less in front of your daughter. Make sure to note the particulars in a journal you should be keeping about his behaviors, visits, etc. Keep every email and text and think about your own communications as something that will be attached to a pleading and made publicly available. This helps me immensely in not writing things I will regret.

If collaborative divorce works in your state the way it does in mine, then I have concerns for you. Generally, with collaborative, if the parties are not able to reach agreement through the mediation, then the parties have to find new counsel, which means paying more money and bringing another counsel up to speed.

Your husband sounds extremely narcissistic. KML and I both have experience dealing with this sort of individual. Do some reading on narcissists and divorce. In particular, disordered people do not make good candidates for mediation. However, they are also horrific to deal with if you are the one filing, which is why my lawyer continues to urge me not to file (that and my H has thus far been giving me significantly more money than I am likely to get in court and that I even requested).

Make sure you hire an attorney who understands dealing with narcissists. I'm not trying to scare you, but this is not going to be a "normal" divorce in all likelihood and you need to prepare yourself for that fact.

I would try, as subtly as possible, to suggest to him that since he is the one keen for the divorce, that he file it. When narcissists are in control of the process, or believe that they are, then the process runs more smoothly.

It sounds like you do need some option however. In my state, I don't need to file for divorce. The first time he fails to pay me in a given month I plan to file for support, as KML indicated.

I am a little curious about the agreement you mentioned. Was it signed during the last separation or this one? Does it discuss what happens if you co-habitate afterward? Does it have force of law, meaning that you can enforce it in the court? Many times a separation contract can become the terms for a divorce (in my state there is a statute providing exactly that, but I am pretty much in the best state in the US to be a woman divorcing).

It is not acceptable for him to fail to provide support because of his extensive repairs to the big house.

I believe you sound like an abuse victim and you believe the things he tells you. The fact that you still want to be with this man is somewhat concerning. Have you looked for any sort of abuse counselor? They could at least make a determination about whether they think you have been the victim of abuse.

I hope you are reading up on how disordered people abuse through gaslighting, withholding, projection, etc. There are also concepts such as the Stockholm Syndrome and cognitive dissonance that can affect your perception. Please look into these things.

Nicole you can't sit by and do nothing or freeze in the face of fear. Your daughter needs you to be strong now and to support her. You can do this. If you couldn't, you wouldn't be here asking for help.

It goes without saying that you should not discuss this site, efforts to save your marriage, concerns about his mental health, your strategies for divorce, or indeed even your future plans with him. This man does not have your best interests at heart right now.

I hope you don't find this too harsh, but I am very concerned for you based on what I have read about your situation.

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Nicole, I'm in total agreement with Ownit. You need to see your therapist because your H is a Narcissist and you need strategies on dealing with this type of person.

You take on the blame for things that he's done to you...thinking you made him this way. My H is absolutely nowhere near like yours but I have the same tendencies to do this too. YOU are not responsible for the way HE behaves! My therapist said these type of people get even more unbalanced once you show them you won't be treated like dirt anymore. Once you start sticking up for yourself be prepared for a major backlash. But don't let that put you off.

Just be smart...maybe as OwnIt says...let H believe he's running the divorce, but have all your ducks in a row. You be smart and get what you need to support yourself and your daughter.

What he said about you and your daughter was despicable. End of. You are a lovely, wonderful woman and mother and have persevered and tried very hard to fix your marriage. You've done your very best. Do not beat yourself up for your H behaviour. Stop that now.

Get financial advice. Get to see your therapist. Everyone is here for you xx


Me 50 H 48
S 23 S 21 D 19
Together 31 years
Married 25 years
Separated April 2009 Reconciled 2010
Separated September 2017
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Nicole, I feel so sad for you. What he said in front of your daughter is the most heinous thing I've ever heard. You need to RUN, not walk away from this guy.

Really take what OwnIt has said into consideration. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. There was nothing you could have done to change the outcome of this marriage that you didn't do.

Your marriage to this a$$hat is over. In the near future, you will rejoice in that fact. But you have to do everything you can to take care of yourself and your D, which includes taking care of your finances (meaning getting a formal support agreement in place... oh, and not being able to support you because he has to pay his contractors..... that's crap..... he needs to pay YOU first.), and your health, physical AND emotional.

As mentioned, you need to keep a journal, keep all his emails, and anything you write needs to be written as if it will be used against you in court. Right now, you can't restrict his access to your D, but if you document things like what he said in front of her, a court may very well do so.


M:23 T:26
Me:53, Wife: 60
S:18
D:16
filed 7/16
W moved out 4/28/17
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