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Original thread here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2770370#Post2770370

Hey everyone. Trying to wrap my head around the latest chain of events. I got the confirmation that I needed to flip that mental switch. You know, the switch that gets flipped and makes you WANT the D.

I decided that I needed to locate my important documents and sentimental items. WW was out of the house at a party. I found a lot of my items in a set of drawers in "her" side of MBR. Went to bed.

When she got home she noticed that I had been in the drawers. She started talking about me violating her trust and her personal space. She said that I'm trapping her and playing mind games. I explained to her that I was getting my sentimental items, which I did. Her perspective is that I violated her personal space.

Now I know there is an admitted EA and they are going on dates. She denies a full blown PA. I'd rate that at likely true, maybe a 65% chance of being true. She said now I'm pushing her into going through with it all the way. Whatever.

She lost her temper and asked me if it would make me move out faster if she brought her man into our house for PA-related activities, if you know what I mean. I said that she can do that anywhere and I don't care what she does. I ended the argument by leaving.

Now, that was a pretty low blow but it didn't affect me. I'm at that point.

She did call me today. She apologized for the vile statement she made, but went into more accusations regarding D details and accusing me of wanting to fight her for the house. I told her that she was accusing me of things that are untrue, said goodbye, and hung up.

So. Yeah, I violated some of Sandi's rules. I engaged in a discussions that devolved into arguments, but I cut them off as soon as I realized it was confrontational. I apologized for the perceived slight and tried to validate her feelings, but I did not ask for forgiveness or anything like that.

What did I mess up the most? Because I know I made a lot of mistakes here.

Please be brutally honest. Thanks.


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Joe2017,

I don't know what you messed up, if anything. But, I'd recommend that you protect your financial assets and proceed toward firmly suggesting that your wife move on to the greener pastures that she's apparently found. Then, really start enjoying your life and bask in an existence that's devoid of angst and recrimination. (In the vernacular, kick her @ss out and get a life.)

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Thanks doodler. In the original thread I explained that I have been GAL as much as possible (sports, working out, running, dieting, improving appearance, etc). I know she has taken notice of the GAL activities. Other women have too, which is a nice ego boost. I'd never have an A like my WW is, but it's good knowing that my greener pastures are actually green while WW is having an EA with a jerk who is actually also bonkers.

Do I want R? Of course I do, the kids and I deserve it. Am I moving forward with D? Of course I am, I don't deserve this and was never given an honest chance by my WW to rectify some of the issues that led us here. But the past is the past and I can't change it.

Oh well, lol.


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Oh, and I cannot legally kick her out of the marital home. She knows this, I know this, and it's unfair to the kids. We are getting a D while under the same roof. I have MBR, and it really irks her.

I have suggested that if she feels backed into a corner like she says then she really needs to leave. She says she is finacially unable to and accuses me of trapping her with money due to the mortgage. She has a full time job and makes good money. She won't leave and I won't leave. I'm definitely not, I didn't want this divorce.


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Joe2017,

What if your situation was reversed? What if you asked your wife if she would move out sooner if you brought your girlfriend home and fornicated in the house? What kind of response would you expect from her?

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Originally Posted By: Joe2017
What did I mess up the most? Because I know I made a lot of mistakes here.

Please be brutally honest. Thanks.


Only because you asked. Why do you want to be married to a woman who has zero respect for you and threatened to screw another man in your house?

Also, your all over the board. You flipped the switch and now you want D but then you're on here worrying about what you did wrong.

Slow down and take a deep breath. You can't make things better right now but you can make them worse.

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That's a good point. When I mean I flipped the switch, I mean I had grown more or less numb to her and the situation. I do love her but you're right. I can't keep doing this.

The truth is, she has changed into a different person now and I don't know if the old wife can ever recover.


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Joe,

Your emotions are going to be all over the place. You are not going to become numb to this in a few days. It will most likely be at least a year before this unfolds.

Accept that for now that your marriage is over.

Remember Marathon not a sprint.

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Joe, I don't think you did anything wrong either. I suppose you could have asked for your personal items rather than going through "her" side of the room yourself (is there a stripe painted on the floor or something? LOL), but in the grand scheme of things that's a pretty minor deal. Sounds like she's looking for reasons to pick a fight.

Originally Posted By: Joe2017
She lost her temper and asked me if it would make me move out faster if she brought her man into our house for PA-related activities, if you know what I mean. I said that she can do that anywhere and I don't care what she does. I ended the argument by leaving.


WELL DONE!!!! That was a nasty, ugly thing for her to say and your reaction was just what it needed to be.

Quote:
Now, that was a pretty low blow but it didn't affect me. I'm at that point.


Welcome to dropping the rope. That's how you know when you have- when she does something outrageous and you just don't care. It doesn't make you happy or sad or anything, it just doesn't impact you.

Quote:
She did call me today. She apologized for the vile statement she made, but went into more accusations regarding D details and accusing me of wanting to fight her for the house. I told her that she was accusing me of things that are untrue, said goodbye, and hung up.


Perfect!

Quote:
Please be brutally honest. Thanks.


All right well prepare yourself for the brutally honest truth- you did great. smile


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I notice the LBH's language uses the word "support" a lot. Usually it is the form of them not wanting the WW to think he is not supporting her. The other word that follows, is caring. Many H's have said they don't know where to draw the line.

Actions the WW willfully chooses that are morally, legally, ethically, or spiritually wrong and\or harmful......he should not be so worried about showing her support and care.....or rush in to validate her feelings. His primary concern should be to exhibit his own personal values and inner strength.....(but Not with a tone of self righteousness). His children need to see what a strong, calm, stable man does when faced with these type of situations. First, he does nothing to compromise his integrity, belief system, personal & family values, etc......in order to appease his WW or to cling to the remnants of a sham M. His W can respect him, or she can leave. That's where he draws the line.

If the WW suffers consequences as a result of her willfully making wrong & harmful decisions for her selfish reasons, then he should NOT show her emotional support. He should NOT try to rescue or comfort her.

If she has a pity party, he should leave her alone. It is not the time to show he cares. People learn from consequences, and if he steps in to soothe her discomfort, he could interrupt a valuable lesson being taught to her. (Hopefully, some of the consequences are coming b\c he would not tolerate her actions.

If there is an emergency, accident, tragedy, or sickness (assuming it has no relation with OM\A, then the H can show he cares and show support by being at the hospital, or getting W her meds, cooking soup, etc., b\c this is probably not a result of her affair.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Right. I gotcha. My kid is getting as much support as possible. Constant reassurance, praise, everything. I can't provide that for her kid quite as much anymore but I do it as much as possible.


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AS, thank you for the words of encouragement. This is the hardest thing I've done so far in my life. It's like losing a loved one to terminal illness.

I decided that for at least the immediate future I am going to ignore her completely. I did not respond to a single text message today. She called about the kids so I took the call but when she started asking why I ignored her I just told her I don't want to talk to her because what she said was really messed up. I told her I will only talk to her about the kids. Then I hung up on her. I ignored all her subsequent calls.

She has texted me apology after apology and I've ignored them all. I will continue to do so as long as humanly possible. She continues texting me as if she needs me to respond.

You're right. The rope has been dropped.

What she said was so awful, but there was no pain. My wife would ever have said that to me, ever. But apparently it's all fun and games for the WW.

Thanks for being here for me everyone.


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So last night was a turning point for me. I just don't know how to take this.

After I decided not to talk to her all evening, she continued to harass me about everything. Any chance she got, to the point she decided to keep me awake all night by leaving the lights on and talking to me or moving furniture. She started making more accusations, and then would get remorseful.

I did decide to talk for about 5 minutes and she expressed remorse but still accused me of trapping her. I remembered OM, saw this as a trick, and told her that nothing I say will affect the D one way or another. I then said I did not want to talk anymore.

She lost her temper and resumed the disruptive behavior. I ignored it all until she got so tired that she went to sleep.

The whole thing took about 4 hours. It was 4 hours of her trying to regain control of my attention. It would have been really difficult 2 weeks ago, but now that the "rope has been dropped" all I did was sit there and watch her.

Sheesh.


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Originally Posted By: Joe2017
The whole thing took about 4 hours. It was 4 hours of her trying to regain control of my attention.


After the first thirty minutes of rubbish, it's acceptable to tell her you've got to take a dump and excuse yourself.

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Honestly this is the first time I've ever seen this kind of behavior from her. She's never done anything remotely similar throughout the marriage. I know 4 hours is a long time (trust me) but I couldn't leave the house with my kid at 1am on a school night.


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Originally Posted By: Joe2017
I know 4 hours is a long time (trust me) but I couldn't leave the house with my kid at 1am on a school night.


Joe,

Actually, I mostly said that because it gave me the opportunity to use the expression "take a dump." I always thought that was a funny expression. It's like "pop a squat" or "torque a wicked cable" or "pinch a loaf," and the Aussie version, "punch the prime minister."

I think I need help with more examples.

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Well, day two of ignoring her. She has accused me of taking some documents that I did not remove. Then texted about some minor things and accused me of changing passwords to accounts.

How should I react to false accusations?

I am considering leaving the house. I can't have another night of her treating me like that. There's also nothing I can do to stop her that won't cause a really bad situation for our boys.

I would just leave with my son and be done with it all. I think I'm at that point. I have evidence that she is creating a hostile environment for me that is detrimental to my son so I'm not too worried about money in court.

Obviously, I'm asking my attorney first.


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Hi Joe,

I suppose I’m as good as anyone in responding to your situation, I was also in a very toxic atmosphere after I found out my W was in a PA which was highly detrimental to my boys and me.

Please be aware if YOU choose to leave you open the door for the AP/LO to walk straight in and basically take your place, that means co-parenting YOUR children. You need to make sure you can handle the thought of this happening and him sleeping in your bed.

The feeling of being TOTALLY replaced, all the handy work all the new pictures on the walls everything. IT’S REALLY TOUGH TRUST ME.

BUT –

Instantly I was rid of their madness and so was my boys, now the AP/LO had to pick up the workload I did around the family home is he capable? Does he want to or is it just about the sex?
The board offers many principles based on DR and a founder principle is detachment, well you don’t get more detached than moving out of the house and away from her BUT THIS COMES AT A PRICE.

I am now in control of everything to do with my life, I have no one to answer to but him upstairs and it has made a massive difference to my attitude. I’m more confident, happier in respect to not having to face the rollercoaster of their R playing out in front of me!
No longer do I hate the thought of her coming home after work to start the continual conflict just because I was in the way of her seeing her AP/LO! All is well with me and eventually with time I am now better able to manage my emotions and those pesky triggers.

I still see WW almost daily due to our need to see our boys regularly but her seeing Mark in control and confident always with a smile on his face just messes with her head, “how dare you be this well-adjusted when my life is one of constant ups and downs…”
It has served me well in allowing me to be better able to work on my boys and my life and the DR principles, some would also say this makes me MORE attractive..!

IDK but I have found peace and focus to better work on reconciling my M as this is my ultimate goal but either way I survive.

Would I do it again with all the knowledge I have now? Maybe not BUT I did ask her to leave and she was having none of it. JUST BE SURE YOU CAN COPE WITH THE DAY AFTER YOU LEAVE AND DON’T HAVE ANY REGRETS.

I’m rooting for you.

Mark.


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Thanks Mark.

So the thing is that we don't have kids together, it is a set of stepsons, one on each side. If OM wants to step in and play house, that's fine with me. He won't.

I don't want to lose any legal claims to my house but my kid's safety trumps money. WW has gone crazy and threatened to call police and make up a story. I can't live like this anymore and my kid deserves better.

I just have to make sure I do it all at once when she's not around.


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Do not move out of your home. Be very clear on it in your own mind and as a boundary.

Oh, and watch out you are not being set up. I truly do not like this reaction of WW. Not one little bit.

If you have a recorder app use it. At the least sign of trouble take advice.

And you are keeping documents evidence and a log?

Cards, close chest any order.

Don't drink around WW. Have a kindly friend or neighbour on hand to verify your stance.

Delicate steps, this period will determine your future both health and wealth.

And doodler is right, get yourself to a quiet place. Loo is good enough......

Poop, Brown stuff, fan etc

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If she is crazy, you can get a non mol or injunction.

Before you do anything get legal advice.

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Thanks. I am talking to my attorney as soon as possible. Unfortunately that means that I have to adapt for the weekend.

Now, how am I supposed to watch out for being set up while living here with her? That puts me at too much risk, doesn't it?

I mean, it seems dangerous to me. She has made serious threats that will really mess me up if she goes through with them. It doesn't sound prudent.

I get that leaving the home shows weakness but now that I dropped the rope I'm done. I don't care about R at this point at all. I need peace of mind and safety for myself and my child.


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Joe,

If you think you are in harm, get out of there. Period.


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Joe,

Only you know what's best for your situation, ideally staying in your home and her moving out is best BUT if your home was anything like mine then don't let ANYBODY tell you it's best to stay it just isn't.

You can STILL fight for your M from afar in fact not being there also has its benefits...

Take care.

Mark.


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I can't detach from her if I am here.

She came to me for emotional support and I talked to her and told her there it's not my responsibility anymore. It could be if she wanted it to be, but that's not the way it is anymore.

This is too hard for me. I can't keep doing this. She is never going to want me again if I am here and available, yet she's unstable if I'm here but unavailable.

Her staying out all night is being enabled by me watching her boy. I can't be giving her her cake and letting her eat it too.

I'm trying so hard to apply Sandi's rules. I'm GAL. I'm doing well at work. I'm focused on my kid. I've changed old habits.

I really need to know what my best options are. Watching her go off and have a grand time with whoever until 2am is killing my heart. I'm being destroyed inside.


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The best way is to detach. Let go and let your wife go on her Journey.

You cant control anothe person. The faster you realize that, the faster the healing begins. You need space! Detach helps you gain that space and she the R and M from a distance and for what it really is.


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OK JoeJoe. The fact that you reconned after her A gives me so much hope. I'm going to do what I can to move out and move on. She is worth it, and I will always be here for her after she finds herself.


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Just do not tell her that!

You can´t be part of her journey. You have to switch places. She must feel the possibility of losing you. So you must act accordingly: detach, start DB.


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Right. I am planning on moving out and moving on. This is torture.


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Joe,

The best advice I can give you is, the faster you get the concepts down and listen to the people on this forum especially the vets the better off you are.

A lot of new LBS, even me have to try the same old things a few extra times. It never works. You can read every thread and the results are the same. Talking never works, just actions.


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Recon the M 10/29/17
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It is torture. But you must get the stength from it.


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So I am having two trains of thought go through my head right now. If I stay in the house, GAL efforts will be noticed more often but it is very hard to detach that way, and it also gives me more opportunity to mess up The Rules.

However, if I move out I will have peace of mind, full physical separation, and it will be easier to detach. Unfortunately she will no longer see GAL efforts and her noticing the 180 will be stalled. I've made great strides with my 180 so far, and I know it's for ME and not her.

With the way she keeps contacting me throughout the day to ask silly questions, and the fact that I am like a free babysitter for her... I feel like she is getting to have her cake and eat it too. She can go act however with whomever, and I'll be home watching her boy.

The only way to stop that is to be gone from the home. It's the harsh reality of removing me as an option in her life, and I can't think of a way to have her fall on her face while I'm enabling her behavior due to my living arrangements.

Plus I'm so tired of it all. It's exhausting. I need space from her and time to heal while I'm GAL.


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1. Why are you staying home watching her boy? Go out to a bar and watch the game. Whatever game, doesn't matter. Go to the gym for a late night work out. Go on a date. Go meet a the boys for poker night. It doesn't matter where you go, but YOU ARE ALLOWING yourself to be used. How does it feel? Are you enjoying it? As long as she can continue to treat you like dirt, she will.

2.
Originally Posted By: Joe2017
SUnfortunately she will no longer see GAL efforts and her noticing the 180 will be stalled.
So what? You say it's for you and not for her, but this statement shows me that's not true. You are still doing it for her.


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All valid points Jim.


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Originally Posted By: Joe2017

Unfortunately she will no longer see GAL efforts and her noticing the 180 will be stalled. I've made great strides with my 180 so far, and I know it's for ME and not her.


If it's for you then why are you worried she won't see GAL and 180's? A lot of LBS's fear the same thing, but you'd be surprised how stuff gets back to the WAS. Mutual friends, family, kids, they'll all be reporting to her if you don't live together. What you don't want them reporting back is that you are always asking them about her and that you're miserable and suffering. You want them to tell her about how great you look, how happy you seem to be, etc. The former tells her you are still firmly Plan B. The latter makes her wonder what you are up to and worry she may lose you.

Quote:
She can go act however with whomever, and I'll be home watching her boy.


If you want to get out and do something then find a way. Get a sitter, or ask her to pull her weight. Or if you like sitting because you value the time with your son then keep doing it. The point is YOU are in control, YOU get to choose. You are not a victim, you need to get over that mentality, it's holding you back.

Quote:
The only way to stop that is to be gone from the home. It's the harsh reality of removing me as an option in her life


Again, you need to decide what YOU want. Leaving the home isn't about giving her a wake-up call. It might do that, or she might immediately move OM in and slap high fives with him over a glass of wine in YOUR home with YOUR son there, right? Ask yourself if your peace of mind is worth that risk. Maybe it is to you, but what I'm saying is you need to base your decisions on what is best for you, not what is the most effective way to "snap her out of it".

Quote:
Plus I'm so tired of it all. It's exhausting. I need space from her and time to heal while I'm GAL.


THOSE would be valid reasons to leave.


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Originally Posted By: Joe2017
So last night was a turning point for me. I just don't know how to take this.

After I decided not to talk to her all evening, she continued to harass me about everything. Any chance she got, to the point she decided to keep me awake all night by leaving the lights on and talking to me or moving furniture. She started making more accusations, and then would get remorseful.

I did decide to talk for about 5 minutes and she expressed remorse but still accused me of trapping her. I remembered OM, saw this as a trick, and told her that nothing I say will affect the D one way or another. I then said I did not want to talk anymore.

She lost her temper and resumed the disruptive behavior. I ignored it all until she got so tired that she went to sleep.

The whole thing took about 4 hours. It was 4 hours of her trying to regain control of my attention. It would have been really difficult 2 weeks ago, but now that the "rope has been dropped" all I did was sit there and watch her.

Sheesh.


Joe, this sounds so similar to my STBXW. And you're still in the house with her too. I know it's hell. Let me say, if leaving the house is NOT a legal concern for you, then get out. This level of crazy is not healthy.


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BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
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Thanks AS.

So here's an update. I went away from the home again this weekend. Just for two days. I ignored WW the entire weekend. I went to an event without her, and took a friend instead.

When I saw her today, she was immediately jealous of who I went to the event with, and I would not tell her who it was.

She told me that she had an awful weekend and that it's the worst thing she's ever been through. I told her that it sounds like it is a very hard thing for her to deal with, and left it at that. She kept talking and would circle back to how she needed me but I wouldn't answer the phone over the weekend. At no point did I comfort her, I only said that I understand that she is having a difficult time.

She was acting very jealous. And this was only after one weekend.

Moving out seems like it will be a "make it or break it" kind of event.


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Originally Posted By: Joe2017
With the way she keeps contacting me throughout the day to ask silly questions, and the fact that I am like a free babysitter for her.


How well integrated is your family? I mean, it's weird that youre worried about babysitting her son. Is he not treated as 'your' son also?

In the meantime, why does she get to go out whenever she wants while you are stuck home? Why isnt it a more equitable 50-50 as far as time home watching the kids?

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OK

A few thoughts

This is YOUR home and she is the wayward one. At all times be safe. OK. If you can get her to leave that's excellent. And yes I moved out to be safe, but the G was so crazy he ran up huge debts and still abused me. Moving out in fact made me less safe, and the G more manipulative. He stole money from my account, deleted info, threatened me, bullied me. And much more drama, anger and abuse. I eventually recorded it and got a non molestation order. And even that hasn't stopped it.

Don't assume that moving out will reduce the bat [censored]. OK? So I recommend a strategy which means determination and not putting yourself at risk. This means not being provoked and not provoking her. The making her jealous strategy won't cut it. The G accused me of having an affair with a 74 year old married Rotation just because SHE had a name which could also be male. Nuts.

If you wish to read a thread with bat [censored] crazy stuff try Schermann thread. Or even Bob. Zues currently on the board didn't have it easy with his ex.

You refer to the children as hers and mine. Her kid, this is your step child, who needs you to be safe and for him to be safe. Children always, always come first. In every situation. When you made an R with this WW part of the deal was her child who sees you as step dad and possibly your child as a sibling. That's a tough gig for any kid be left with a batshit crazy mamma.

How she reacts to your changes and what she thinks of them is her concern. Yours is to do what is needed for you and for the children. Both of them.

Those are my thoughts.

V


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Ok. This is where I am with this now. I am not going to move out, mostly because I can't guarantee control of my property if I am gone. I am going to just parent both kids to the best of my ability like a single parent again, because they deserve to get that from at least one of us.

I'm just going to GAL, spend weekends away when I feel like it and just do what I want until our attorneys straighten this out.


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I am delighted to hear you say that. It's a bumpy ride and realistically you may have to practically as well as literally protect yourself and your children. This will be whatever you do or wherever you go.

You have my full support as well as your tribe here.

Can I make a recommendation?

Your boys need love, hugs and listening to. They need Joe time as a family and one on one. I Internet promise you, your kids are your kids for ALL of your life. Precious, vulnerable and robust all at once. I am reminded of another Joe who came here, whose WW went into the sex trade and who built his life on his family and step kids.

A very special dad whose current happiness knows no bounds with his first step grandchild and whose life overflows with love.

Oh and I did say hugs didn't I? The easiest way is just to say "dad needs a hug right now".

V


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Thanks V.

I am being as supportive as possible but I also know that in order for my step kid to get what he needs from his mother right now she will have to be snapped back to reality. We will be spending a lot of time away from the house with the holidays now.

I have weeks to basically detach and get my mind right. She can parent her boy or not, but I will not be enabling her party lifestyle right now. It sounds harsh but so is real life. One day he will understand.

I have time on my side. Divorces do not happen overnight, in a few weeks, or even months. If the worst thing possible happens and I end up getting a divorce after all, well. That was going to be the outcome after all.

She has noticed my GAL every step of the way. She has commented very often about it, and I just shrug it off. So the consistency I've shown has been pretty solid.

I know I will win her over one day, probably after I completely detach and stop caring about what she says or thinks or maybe even after I'm over her. We'll see.

She already knows she is making a boneheaded move. She has openly stated that it doesn't make sense at all, but her mind is still made up. She's a really stubborn one by nature, so that's to be expected. She is a lot like a child throwing a tantrum right now so I just have to continue treating her like I did my boys when they were little, and having fits.

Ignore the bullcrap. Let them have a tantrum, but ignore. When they're done with it, then the real work can begin. But never during the tantrum because no matter what you say it will be wrong. I have to detach, ignore, and wait. Otherwise I'm wasting my breath talking.


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She may not snap back to reality and nothing you can do will do that for her. And there isn't an intervention you can make that will do that.

It is enough to look after you and those precious boys.

I hope I mentioned hugs. Sure I did.

V


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Very valid point. She has to want to do these things. And I cannot control another person.

The boys get plenty of hugs from me, no worries there.


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So today I am starting two weeks of no contact with WW. Please wish me luck or pray for our family. This is going to be really tough on me but I think it will give me the space to decide on whether or not I feel like this is worth continuing.

I know it's a marathon and not a sprint, but WW is a sprinter. She's either going to go left or go right, but whichever way she goes, it will be full throttle. I am hoping that we can R but not hopeful, if that makes sense.

At this point I don't know if I want to anymore.


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Good luck, Joe!

It's okay to not know what you want.


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W filed:7-17-17
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No contact is different from intermittent contact

I have gone NC forever

That means

No texts
No emails
No calls
No Facebook etc
Deleting, blocking and being Schtum


No contact is to protect you not to punish her

It's not to teach her a lesson, to make her miss you, to punish

It's for dignity and self respect

It gets them out of your head and life

For you

It requires a steel will and isn't permanent not two weeks!

Otherwise if you ever want or need NC it feels and looks weak

You don't say I am going no contact

You do it

V


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V,

Well it is kinda weak because I can only do this for two weeks. I do have to go back to the home when the holidays are over, per my attorney.

It's not punishment, or vindictive thoughts really. I need space. I need to wake up tomorrow and not see her. I need to go to bed and not worry about hearing her car pull up to the house. I need time to think without hearing, seeing, or smelling her.

I don't know what will come of this, but I do know that I am very dedicated to not contacting her during this period. I am so uncertain of the outcome.

I am an emotional train wreck right now but I'm not breaking NC for her to throw me a bone. I'm beginning to see that I might be better off without her.


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For many people and many situations NC is not possible, but certainly very little contact is viable. Even when you move back in, you should keep interactions to the minimum.

For your two weeks, I hope you GAL and do stuff.


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Complete NC is impossible with kids, unless the WW/WH decides to completely abandon ship - there are sitch's here where that's happened so it's not unheard of.

But, you can get very very close to complete NC/Dark even with kids. I only communicate with W when it's about the kids or finances. Now with being physically separated for a while, the finances are longer something we need to discuss.

The frequency of communicating about the kids also depends - I only communicate about bdays, holidays, the schedule split, if they're hurt, etc etc. But, even with so many things that we could communicate about, it is very rare that I send a message to her.

So, you can have a very high degree of NC even with kids. You don't have to communicate about everything with her. I don't send pics of kids to her and nothing that would look like pursuit.

This strategy has been amazing for my own mental and emotional sanity. It can be done and there are other people here who have also done it - Joseph9 comes to mind right away.


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FC,
I'm definitely not stopping GAL. I have made a lot of progress and I don't plan on stopping. I'm planning some events and such for the coming weeks.

Maika,
Thanks for the encouragement and advice. I have gone dark electronically for over 2 weeks, so this will be an extension of that.


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Joe,

Just focus on you and the kids. Forget her rollercoaster ride. If she invites you on it decline. In the same way if she invited you to drink poison. No thanks.

Your goal is to move into a new phase of your life. One where you and the kids are happily away from her rollercoaster. Be calm, be strong, be a man and a dad.
Things you already are. If you get things ‘wrong’ accept it and learn from it but mostly forgive yourself.

You need to get into a phase where you do not yearn for her. Because she is not who you thought she was - if not who she was.she has changed. She may never be that person again for you. Accept it. The more time you spend detaching, the easier it is. It is very difficult in house for obvious reasons but keep up things that work - gym etc. Never engage in an argument, particularly when there are children near.

You will get through this. You need to keep fixed on the future ahead being bright. It will be. You will have the odd moment but less and less as time goes on. And you will be the happy you again.

Many here have lived what you are living. Be strong. You are.

Surfer.


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Thank you all for your support. I am slowly but surely moving in the right direction. I do not know what will happen in the future but I hope to move on from this as a better version of myself.


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So WW finds one thing about the kids to send me a TM about each day. She's using it like a loophole. How do I respond to this during a period of NC? It's not anything about their health or safety. It's just stuff about gifts, or random things with kids interjected.


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Unless there's an issue you NEED to respond on (like arranging for the care of your kids), ignore it. It sounds like everything she's sending you should be ignored.


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Joe

Truly this isn't NC. You can be NC but only if you block WW.

Let's just dispell a myth "you can't go NC if you have kids"

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of NC.

NC is about parallel parenting. There are ways of dealing with admin about kids, online calenders, my family wizard.

Having plans, communicating through third parties.

NC is about you and your emotions, about keeping you to you, not trying to discover the other. It is living your life with NC.

It is perfectly possible to be NC with kids. If you are choosing to receive emails or texts then excusing it because you have kids. That is an excuse not a reason.

OK there may be days when a child is ill or needs an emergency pickup. It's rare, it's admin. But NC is NC.

Parallel parenting is doing what you do for your children in your time and the other does the same. It is deciding to go to the play, the game because you want to go. Making plans for you and the kids on your dime. Following exactly what is court ordered and doing the best for your kids.

So saying "I can't do NC, we have kids" is an excuse.

Just saying

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I see. I understand more now, I think. Either way this is temporary.

However... With each passing day, the desire to R becomes less and less. I think that I see my indifference for her on the horizon and it scares the daylights out of me.

Once again I appreciate the insight, V. Thank you.


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Quote:
I think that I see my indifference for her on the horizon and it scares the daylights out of me.


Why does it scare you?


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Joe,

Apologies if some of this is a little off-piste for you, not fully read your sitch. and I am not sure where you are on the still in the same house thing etc. I think you still are cohabiting.

I wouldn’t worry about what you might feel like in the future. You don’t know. I used to be paralysed by similar thoughts about how x or y would be if we D etc. Bery little of it comes true TBH. The only person that is creating and suffering from that fear is you. Try and do the things that keep your mind away from that stuff. Gym, work, kids, friends etc. Or talk to people that understand and will do exactly that but tell you to try not to overthink right now. Think about that sort of stuff as rollercoaster riding. You need to be the most stable and grounded you can be.

NC with kids is simple. Just don’t respond. If she says she doesn’t know you have read it, both use WhatsApp or something where you can see if a message has been read. The daily text is her temp testing. Right now just leave her to it. Only make contact or respond if it is something relevant and important about the kids. For example, if she says “you haven’t forgotten to pick up ‘kids’ have you?” Respond “no”. Nothing else. If she says “I just wanted to let you know kids enjoyed the cinema today”. Personally I wouldn’t even respond. You have read the message. She should know that. You don’t need to add anything. If she texts with something that is an ‘invitation’ into an argument. Just don’t respond. This is all I do. We also have a gmail calendar we share with kids routines on ‘daddy’s days/mummys’ pickup times etc. Beyond that I don’t get in touch and I pretty much follow the above guidelines.

When I was attached I would text or call her every day. The way your WW is. I was trying to ‘hang on’ - stupidly. She would have loved this, but I eventually realised why do I want to hang on to someone that is abusing me, my love and kindness. No. Just try your best to ‘act like’ she is someone you don’t have attachment to. Eventually you won’t have so much. Don’t worry about that either. You can become closer again, if that works in your favour - I.e. if she snaps out of it (some don’t however).

In short try to get to a place where you feel a bit ‘oh dear, what a shame, must go’ when there is drama or spew over the phone etc and try to get to a place where you really think I couldn’t care, you don’t get to have me when you behave so appallingly. Boundary setting statements are very useful for you at this stage I think.

Keep your chin up - the in house part is tricky. Perhaps the trickiest.

Surfer.


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Sandi: I think it scares me because I have been so steadfast in my love that it almost feels wrong. As if I'm no better than WW for closing my heart off. I know that seems silly, but I still believe in us and I feel like there is a chance. Maybe I'm just naive.

Surfer: That advice is so solid, I can't thank you enough. What you describe is almost exactly what I've been doing.

She did text me to ask if her son could meet up with my cousin (who is in town for three days) for the holidays. WW's son loves my cousin to death. Unfortunately, WW framed it in a way that gaslighted me.

Instead of responding to the TM, I waited a few hours and sent an 8-word email to her, simply telling her to text my cousin. I did not address any inflammatory or dramatic portions of her text. It was basically "Cousin wants to see your son. Text them."

I just know WW's son has always loved my cousin and they always do something together each year. I didn't want to deprive him on the last year of us being a family.

Other than that, it's been one text each day from her.

Looks like that is changing though. Not a peep from her all day today. Complete radio silence.


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Joe

You may find texts etc drying up bit with that, so will the abuse. You can make peace when at war so this is good IMHO. Just go with it, stay calm. Be the best you and best dad. Don’t be tempted to chase any contact. Keep it all simple and distant to allow your wars to stop.

Going forward you want to get to being happy in your own space. So do the kids. If you can, things may have a chance of healing, they may not. You may even chose a life without her. All are options. But things certainly won’t improve when you are at war. Either way, after the war subsides you will, hopefully be able to work towards a much better relationship, than the one you have now, going forward.

Life get a heck of a lot better. Keep calm, stable and look after you and the kids. Also, don’t get too absorbed in the crappy feelings. It Christmas, give yourself a break from the hub that is DB’ing and have some fun.

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The silences are an abuse control tactic too. Pattern changes to make you think she has lost interest in your misery.

Sad to say, the moment you truly let go is the point at which you may see even more rage and bad behaviour. That's because the abuser has lost control of you and your resources. WW won't like it.

At this point it is you and your children that concern me most. I hope you have a wonderful Xmas and that the best present is that your fear is mitigated.

Incidentally you have the insightful and thrives Surfer posting to you. His threads will give you great insight to these dynamics. His journey has elements in my view of your own.

Peace, breathe, fear, anger are all part of this journey. They are normal and absolutely on cue.

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I've said it many times, you are all amazing people. Thank you.

I am on an emotional rollercoaster of my own, I do not need to also be a yoyo at the end of her string. I don't need her abuse. This is so bizzare, it's the first time she has ever been abusive towards me. I'm in shock, disbelief, and I'm totally hurt to my core. I can't believe this happened to me.

I feel it's a 50/50 chance of PA at this point. There isn't much I can do about it though. I haven't looked into her whereabouts or social media. I have kept completely isolated, but really... This has been a very hard 4 days of DBing. My entire world is upside down.

Christmas is upon us and for the first time in half a decade our kids are not together, and we are not together. I hope that it resonates with her and makes an impact... Because for me, it is killing my soul. I'll never be the same after this.

So sad. At least I'm here for my kid. He needs me. And I need him too.


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Get the strength from the situation. Keep calm, dont get into your own mind games. Enjoy Xmas with your son.

Merry Xmas


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You're right about my own mind games. In my mind she is constantly out screwing around with other guys and doing things she'd never do with me. It's maddening. It is driving me insane.


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Hard as it seems to hear today on Xmassive day, you will recover and this part is the worst.

And it is absolutely completely and totally expected. Especially at Xmas, the loss will be sharper. That is the awful truth, and sometimes it might get worse. But it's ok, from being where you are to where I am now, it's a long way.

I think the G had 9 OW in total, and it hurts a lot to know that he played away. That doesn't make you any less although it feels like it sometimes.

So in my case what I felt in my mind was true. And so so hurtful too. It's ok it drives you insane, it really is OK. I would be worried for you if it didn't! Why? Because hard as it is to see it that way, it's much more damaging to deny.

Your mind will eventually get tired of it, and you will just write it up in your story.

And it hurts a lot. That's perfectly ok. It's suppose to......

I am sad you are at this point at Xmas but glad you are here.

Big hugs

V


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Thank you Vanilla. I'm still incredibly heartbroken.

I had a dream last night that we were still together and happy. I am bouncing back and forth from being incredibly sad to being kind of indifferent.

I am GAL as much as possible. I have not broken NC, despite her angry TMs the other day regarding SM posts I've made about my new life I'm making. (NOTHING on SM is about her, nothing). I realize she is baiting me into an argument for negative attention.

If she is over me why is she stalking my SM? If she is really done with me, she'd do all the things people getting divorces do that she HAS NOT done. Instead, she is trying to hold onto me by a string. Like I'm her safety net or something. Except I'm not... She abandoned me. I'll never be there to catch her when she falls ever again.

I'm having a very hard time sticking to NC during this time. I want to reach out and connect with her. I want to have our Christmas together. I want our family whole again.

But I know these things are just a fantasy. I know things are different and will never be the same. I know that all the things I wanted in life have to change now.

But I still FEEL like I want her back, if it ever becomes an option. Unfortunately (luckily?) I know in my mind that her actions speak louder than any words. She filed for D. I want R. She doesn't. End of story for now.

I wish it would stop hurting. I wish she would come around and see how crazy insane she's been for the past couple months.

I wish I wish I wish. Oh well.

Merry Christmas everyone, thanks for being there for me and everyone else on the board.


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Joe

Of course you are heart broken, it's betrayal of a hurtful kind. There is a little piece of me still broken after 3 and a half years.

Who knows why they do the things they do, the G still stalks me and FB and goes by the house. I gave up long ago trying to work it out, ceased to be worth it in any way. Scrambled eggs for brains.

There does come a day when at the end of it you realise you hadn't thought about it. Then comes a time of whatever......

You are very special, someone so capable of love and care. In many ways that's why you hurt, because you can.

You still 'feel' you want her back, that's not a feeling but a desire. Desires are choices. I suspect what you want is the idea of R in its best way with WW. That will change, when your desire for the best for you is greater than the longing.

At the point when you know the idea would never be reality as things have changed too much. When you detach and let go. Likely there will be a spellbreaker, a small or large incident which wakes you from your dream. Then you will never go back to the dream or idea of the old.

In the meanwhile it's ok.

V


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So today I woke up and I realized I survived the first real hard challenge: Christmas. She did text me on Christmas about an unrelated topic, which I ignored. I also got a text by proxy from her son regarding gift exchange and my cousin. I had my cousin reply for me without having me in the equation. All in all, yesterday broke me down and left me shattered.

But somehow I am still here. Life goes on, I guess. I am still hoping for R and MC but I am starting to be okay with the idea of being single again.

I am not worthless.


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Joe,

You are worthy! Worthy of being happy, being loved, feeling love, and enjoying life.

You are not worthless. None of us are.

Your worth exceeds all worldly things!!!!! Onward and forward. Here to 2018.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
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Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Thanks Joe Joe.

WW messaged me today regarding bills that have posted. She previously told me she would get a list together of all the shared bills we have, but did not provide it to me.

I responded by putting an appropriate amount into the account and reminded her that she did not get me the list of bills. She blames me for it, of course. Everything is my fault. Gaslighting.

This is the only time I have broken no contact. For business purposes.

My heart is giving out. I feel like I am no longer the same person I was even a month ago. I am sure I am battling depression now. My life is completely out of whack.

I don't know how I will be able to go back to the marital home. I am losing will power and strength.


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Keep calm. The sun shines behind the clouds. Be strong. You are standing on your values. That is the right thing to do.

There are things that are out of your control. Let them go. Detach.

Keep strong, stand for your S. He sure needs you! You are not alone.


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I've gone dark for over a week now.

WW finds any reason to text or email me every day. The threads will sometimes start out business like and then devolve into accusations of spying on her or other silliness. Paranoid.

The only responses I've given have been listing the bills I'm paying. Emotionless facts.

She still finds reasons to text. Using kids as loopholes. I never respond. She does want to talk to me, and I want to talk to her! But wanting to talk with me is different than wanting to BE WITH me.

I still have pangs of heartbroken feelings here and there. I am still GAL and I am making consistent progress. The 180s have definitely been noticed by WW. Still, I think D is looming in the future. I cannot overlook facts.

It's time for us to make a decision about where we go from here. We can R or D. But either way it has to be 100%. If we R it's a complete rededication with MC. If we D it's 0% communication except via lawyers. She can move out if it's too hard for her, she can't keep making me pay emotionally for her decisions.

I am not sure how to have this conversation with her. I want to have this talk with her before I return home. Any ideas?


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Originally Posted By: Joe2017

It's time for us to make a decision about where we go from here. We can R or D. But either way it has to be 100%. If we R it's a complete rededication with MC. If we D it's 0% communication except via lawyers.


This is not a we decision Joe. Did she ask for your advice before wanting a divorce? Why do you need to ask her about your decision. It is 100% your decision not hers. you just need to realize that if you want to R its on her timetable not yours. If you want a D then you have the strength in you to go through with it. Remember you can only control yourself.


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Joe I agree with rex here.....your choice, this is not a we discussion. I can guarantee you if you have this discussion you won't like the outcome. If you want a D then go file, if you don't then you are going to have to show more patience than you ever have before.

My W has told me 3 times in 7 months she wanted a D and has still not filed. Every time she says it or attempts to take a step in the opposite direction it impacts me less and less. Over time the roller coaster should get smoother.

Hang in there and don't let your emotions control you.


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She already filed because I scared her during an argument one day. It was an impulsive move but now she is sticking to it.

I have nothing to lose by having this discussion with her.


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Do you know for a fact she has filed? If she has what is there to discuss?


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I guess you're right and I'm just wasting my time.


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Do you know for a fact she has filed? Do you have proof or is it just what she said?


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Yeah I got served. And she cried when it happened and apologized to no end.


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Then you keep your head held high and move through the process with class, dignity and self-respect. It's not over until the paperwork is final and even then it is just a piece of paper. It could take months or more and feelings can change.

Have the conversation if you wish however when I get served I will not waiver, her choice, her decision. I will only show her a strong, confident man!


Married 14, Together 17
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M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
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Originally Posted By: Joseph9
Then you keep your head held high and move through the process with class, dignity and self-respect. It's not over until the paperwork is final and even then it is just a piece of paper. It could take months or more and feelings can change.


I agree with J here.

This is all on her timetable now unless you wish to speed things up with the divorce.

Originally Posted By: Joe2017
I have nothing to lose by having this discussion with her.


you will probably disagree with me here, but I dont agree with this statement one bit. I believe when it comes down to it, women want their man to be a self sufficient man, and most men are, but at some point we become wayward and lose ourselves in the relationship to an extent. By trying to include her in your decision making, you are still showing pursuit and looking for her validation. you will not show her you changed and she will not want to change for you, because of words or a discussion. They want to and need to see action for better or worse.

Put yourself in her shoes, if you did all of this to her, would her wanting to have a conversation with you about coming back to her make you want to come back? You would only do these things to someone if you had no respect for them, so why would you want to listen to someone you lost respect for?

If you just met this person a week ago and was dating her, would you let her treat you this way? I would hope not. granted you didnt meet her a week ago, but you have to realize she is not the person you married anymore, and she may not ever be that person again. I am dealing with this same issue, that when i think about my spouse i remember who i met when we got married, not who she is acting like now. I am almost over this thought and realize the person she is now is not the person i married and she may never be that person again. Remember action speak louder than words.


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It is still so early on in our situation. I have done all the things I can do to show that I am taking this D seriously. Split finances, split phone service, hired attorney, etc.

I haven't responded to a single text message or phone call in weeks. I am in control of our communication at this point. It has not stopped her from texting me about random things, even though I don't respond.

It is really boggling to me. If she doesn't want me in her life, she should stop contacting me.


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Joe....it took me about 1.5 months before I felt like a person and could reasonabley function. I cried every day, called my mom every morning and night to and from work. Took two weeks of vacation and couldn't even talk to anyone about the sitch and not break down crying. Say this to also say I never showed this in front of her. I never begged or pleaded but the three weeks after BD and she moved out I did ask her a ton of questions that really in the end only pissed her off and made her want to get further away.

Our finances are split as well and she pays her own phone bill. The only thing I have not done is hire an attorney. I never initiate contact with my W and really only respond about kids or money but in the past few weeks I have loosen up with that some because now she is more engaging with me and joking around. I still keep it light though and never initiate heavy conversation.

You just have to give it time. It's kind of like a mexican stand off. I once read from an old vet that the people who try the hardest to save their MR never succeed and those that don't try have the most success. You have to let go and not read into those messages. Early on my W would text me pictures of her and the girls. I never figured out why and I racked my brain thinking it was a sign. They eventually stopped and I can only assume she was going through the same adjustment period. It is not easy on her as well and while she may never show it to you just know she is struggling as well.

It does get better with time and distance but you must show patience, restraint and get a hold of your emotions. Controlling your emotions is one sign of a confident man. It will take her a while to notice your changes and not feel that you have done it to win her back. Detaching is a process and it just doesn't occur overnight.


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Okay, so what you're saying is that the fact that she constantly tries to initiate contact with me is not a form of pursuit on her end? I don't get it, really. When I don't want to talk to people anymore, I simply do not contact them about anything. At all.

However, she is not doing this. I am not even physically there to make her think about me. But she is stalking my FB and texting me comments about my posts.

So these are not signs? Just mind games? They serve no purpose... I'm obviously not responding, and I have been very consistent with that. Yet she persists.


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She is just playing games because you have went NC and are not responding to you. It is having an effect but that doesn't mean she wants to recon. Read through Chris 19's sitch, his W has OM and she is doing the same thing. Every time he takes the bait and reaches out to her she has confirmation he is still available and continues on playing her high school games.

Sounds like she rushed into the D proceedings and maybe she is not totally convined either. Who knows. Just keep doing what your doing and only time will tell if she continues down the D path or pulls the paperwork.

Just prepare yourself for the next time you see her face to face and I wouldn't be surprised if she starts asking you a ton of questions. IMO that will be your next test. At this point in time it's a little bit of gamesmanship. Are you good at poker? Never show your hand. Also remember you have the DB playbook and she does not. She expects you to be pining away for her love and your not doing that. It is getting a reaction.


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She did rush into this. She is basically treating this like breaking up with a boyfriend. She is expecting things to be easy and smooth.

Me hiring an attorney shocked her. Documenting things in email shocked her. Me getting served papers was unreal to her.

I am not sure what is going on with her at this point. I have not cared to check on her whereabouts, her comings or goings, or her social media. I have done a good job of detaching. She has made comments indicating that she believes I have been following her on SM but she is way off base. She is just baiting me to respond.

She really is trying to make contact. She will forward an email she sent from the day before just to send me something. She sends a text asking me if I did something that she knows I did.

She is trying to make contact... I just don't know the reason.


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Joe,

She is making contact because she wants to be assured you are available as plan B. By the way you flip flop all over the place I am guessing your ok with being plan B.

If I am wrong you make it clear to her that you ain’t nobody’s fuching plan B.

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@Joe
I had a similar type of response from my W in my sitch.

When she told me I had to remove her off the rental lease she responded surprised when I replied in a business like manner with all terms & conditions.

When collecting her belongings I also had to spec out what she could and couldn't take. She then replied with "you never contact be e-mail!".

It's almost as if the gravity of what she has done hasn't sunk in. Many of these WAW situations are done on impulse, also without thinking through the consequences on wider social circles and family.

No doubt you are going through the same!


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Echoing what others are telling you, she's taking your temperature, but at this point has no interest in reconciliation.

You are as much in control of the divorce timeline as she, but only she can decide she's ready for reconciliation. Don't have the conversation with her. Remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint. It [censored], but you've got to be patient.


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j1234: I think you're right. She has been contacting me regularly during NC and I have only responded about money via email. She then tried to get me to call her. I did not take the bait. She then sent me an email tirade saying that we have put space between us, and accused me of forcing her to live in the marital home. Just more gaslighting.

I return to the house next week and I am dreading it. I will have to apply all of the learning I've done over the past 3 weeks at the same time. I have to only talk about business and ignore the rest.

I would love to be able to kick her out but I can't.

Healing has been hard. I haven't had enough time. It is a difficult problem for me.


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Quote:
She already filed because I scared her during an argument one day. It was an impulsive move but now she is sticking to it.

I have nothing to lose by having this discussion with her.


Maybe you can't see it, but it seems you are using this as an excuse to have a relationship talk. That's what it will wind up being....a R talk. And why should the decision be left to her? What's wrong with your decision button?

If you can't take it any longer, then why go back to staying under the same roof? There is nothing complicated about this stuff. You LBH's are the ones that make it complicated. If you had dropped her the minute this all started....it would be resolved by now. But since you didn't, it has become more problematic.

Quote:
It is really boggling to me. If she doesn't want me in her life, she should stop contacting me.


B/c that's not how WW's operate. And guess what else? Even if she divorces you and M OM, she'll probably still try to keep you attached to her. Not b/c she loves you, but b/c she wants the control.

If you guys would just realize how powerful dumping the WW can be, you would stop playing her games and do it. The power is given to the one who walks away. She would be chasing you down the street, trying to get you back! But you'd have to be Fonzie cool about it, and not a jackass. If you hash and rehash how she wants to go forward.....and you are "reminding" her how you don't want a D, and all the reasons to save the M, etc.......the effectiveness is lost. Know what I mean?

This woman is putting you through the wringer, and you are going home to ask her what she wants to do. She doesn't know what she wants! So, I suggest you don't ask her, but rather get a new plan of action.....b/c this isn't going to work in your favor.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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THIS
Quote:
This woman is putting you through the wringer, and you are going home to ask her what she wants to do. She doesn't know what she wants!


This is my wife. She's moved out and is having at least a EA if not PA and still doesnt know what she wants. Was stringing me along for a year and I was thinking there was a chance but she just wanted that power over me. Cruel to the extreme..
One you realize that YOUR WIFE IS LONGER THAT SWEET WOMAN YOU MARRIED
the clearer things become.

I've pretty much dumped my W in the last few weeks, gone total NC/dark and have openly discussed divorce with her and things are changing now. It feels good to get my balls back lol I'm trying to be Fonzie about it mostly but I can be a bit mean and cutting. I'm trying to work on that, its getting easier
although she's really fighting me right now. Its kinda scary what she has become.

NO ONE should have this much power over you. Women have us scared and wondering what to do as she controls us like a puppet-master.
Get your mojo back bro. You the man!


M-45
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D-10 D-8
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Sandi: I know you're right. If I had just said screw it from the beginning I'd be much better off.

I have only been in this process for five weeks now. I started DB at about 2 weeks. I slipped a couple times and set myself back, but I've been pretty steadfast for the past 2.5 weeks with no mistakes. I have been 99% NC during those 2.5 weeks. I am only responding to money and kid related topics via impersonal fact-based emails. It is driving her bonkers and she won't leave me alone for more than a day.

The problem is I have to go back to the home per my attorney. I also think I can show more control of the situation by being in my own home sleeping in my own bed and responding in person in the most DB way possible. I am still moving forward with the divorce, no silly games on my end.

Sandi, do you think I should return to my home? If it is the wrong thing to do I will tell my lawyer that I feel it is best not to be there and find out a way for me to stay out of the house. From the WW's perspective, does it show weakness walking away from the marital home? I have told her to get the hell out of the house but she won't.

She has 100% relented to me taking the MBR to myself. What is the best way to get her to leave?

I know it is NOT a good idea to tell her to go live with OM, but that's what makes sense. I don't know how to get her out of my house.

Thanks EVERYONE for slapping my wrist before I do something stupid.


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12345: You are right, she is not the same person right now. Might never get her back either.

I have seen a side of her that is beyond comprehension. It is almost like mental illness.


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It's nothing to do with what she wants. She has scrambled eggs for brains.

She just doesn't want to lose out on resources.

And whilst you concentrate on her, and not on you then you will go round in circles.

Detach. Observe, let go.

Do not leave the MBR, do not leave your home.

I made that mistake and I owned both. I left for peace and to be safe and it took me a year to get back in and I lost respect and ground. WH played wayward in the MBR and the FHM. And I paid for him to do it, I funded it.

The courts also tend to leave status quo so it can be expensive. The wayward must pay the price. She isn't a princess to be pampered.

It's not just a female game, it's a wayward game.

Start concentrating on you and what you want as if she was just a friendly neighbour.

And cards, chest close in any order.

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Originally Posted By: Joe2017
I've been pretty steadfast for the past 2.5 weeks with no mistakes.


You are going to make mistakes; just don't beat yourself up over them. You didn't get to D because of one mistake, and you won't kill your chances for reconciliation by one mistake, either.


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Originally Posted By: Joe2017
12345: You are right, she is not the same person right now. Might never get her back either.

I have seen a side of her that is beyond comprehension. It is almost like mental illness.


I recognise this.


Truthbuster.

Married 4.5, Together 6
M: 36, W: 33, no kids
Separation date: 7/8/2017
Bomb dropped: 8/18/2017
Last communication: 1/8/2018 - now nothing
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WW already filed and I got served.

So, what I need to do is just continue DB/LRT/GAL and do the divorce. Ignore the WW and have my attorney to get the divorce over with quickly. I should let her know I'm not playing games, and I want this done fast.

It's pretty much a done deal at this point anyways, right? I should just cut my losses and move on.


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Quote:
If you guys would just realize how powerful dumping the WW can be, you would stop playing her games and do it. The power is given to the one who walks away.


This does not have to mean you go run to file D papers. It may come to that point, but if it does....it should be b/c you've decided it's what you want. What I was talking about in my previous post and the quote above, can be done with attitude and behavior. Divorce papers are simply that.....papers. It is not going to make any automatic difference in how you feel or act, just b/c you have papers. That all has to come from within you.

Now, you tell me what picture comes to mind when you think of how dumping her looks? If your only answer is getting a divorce, then you need to learn something about women.....especially a WW. Get your body out of that house and GAL like crazy. Give her no details. As long as someone can reach you in case of an emergency, that's all that is necessary. You don't discuss what, where, when or who with her. Understand? Mystery draws the WW and it helps distract her focus on other wayward issues. But it is not all for her, it's for you, most of all.

Listen closely. A WW thinks she no longer wants you for the man in her life. However, she doesn't want anyone else to have him. She does not want to be replaced by another woman in his life! Am I telling you to make her jealous by flirting or dating other women? No, I'm not. I'm telling you to GAL b/c that is the one thing that will bring back your old confidence and help you to think in a more balanced manner. It helps to distract your every thought on your WW. It also makes you much more of an interesting man! Not only in the eyes of others, or even in your own eyes.....but also the eyes of your WW. The fact that she may wonder what is distracting your time, interest and energy.....is just a plus benefit. Women are jealous of their man, and curious by nature. That's why so many questions. Your W won't tell you, but I will. wink

Naturally, her first thoughts will wonder if you've met some OW. Why wouldn't she think so, when her mind is on her own wayward sh't? Let her think whatever, you don't have time to discuss nonsense. You are having too good of a time, enjoying whatever the heck you want to do without having to consider her feelings. At least, that's the perception she'll have. Now, in your logical brain, this makes no sense.....right? Guess what? She's not logical. A WW has a jealous need for control, she doesn't want to give up. And I'll add another part to this mess.....which is the fact that you gave her that control. Therefore, she wants to tell you everything to do and not do .....even if she doesn't want you for a H. crazy Most wives want to know nearly every move you make and the surrounding details. That's what women do! But, add waywardness to her, and it increases a hundredfold.

Therefore, your plan of action needs to be an attitude and behavior that screams LRT. The last resort technique is not getting a divorce! You stop trying to please this woman. You stop working on the MR. Shocker, right? Well, just stop it. Why? B/c you act like a man without b@lls when you are bending over backwards trying to convince her your M is worth saving. What she needs to see is a man she is putting out on the market, and will be free for the taking. She needs to see a MAN worth saving. How many years has it been since she saw that young hotshot guy full of confidence? Yeah, that guy, that's who she wanted, remember? What happened? And, don't give me that "I got married", cr@p. You changed yourself! You buckled down to whatever she wanted, didn't you? You became a female version of your old self. You think the way to solve the problem is having more R talks with her. Straight women don't want a female spouse, they want a man who has b@lls. Oh sure, she'll act as if she doesn't like it when you show them.....but she loves b@lls. Why do you think she took yours and keeps them in her purse?

Now, you have got to find that manly man you use to be.......and you find him without her help or approval. Her approval doesn't matter to you finding your manhood again. You didn't need her to become that guy in the first place, so I'm sure you'll figure out how to do it again. And, may I add......it surely doesn't take another woman to help you find him. At least, I hope it doesn't. Doesn't hurt a guy to hear a compliment from a pretty lady, or see one that is checking him out. It helps the bruised ego. But, you are too vulnerable to act on anything from another woman, right now. Oh, and FWIW, don't feel as if you need to explain everything I've told you with your WW, including how you won't look at another skirt unless you are officially divorced. She is wayward, let her think whatever about you. LBH's explain way too much!

Have you read all the WW threads? Are you following the suggestions on the first page of the first thread? You cannot become the attractive male who excites her, unless you can enforce tough love. Being military, I would think you could appreciate how that works in gaining respect. When a woman becomes your W, a funny little thing happens. You see, God had this sense of humor........well, never mind. Woman was designed to where her desire was tied to her respect for her H. You see, God had this plan that man should.........well, never mind. Anyway, if the wife loses respect for her H.....she loses her desire for him. All the attraction, chemistry, interest, loving feelings.....everything goes down the drain. And, it's replaced with some nasty, negative feelings. She may say she feels dead, but she is referring to positive emotions for you. She feels plenty, but it's not good. So, why would she want to listen or follow a man she doesn't respect? Why should she stay in a dead MR where she feels like she her life is going to waste and she's missing out on true happiness.....somewhere out there. The special ingredient that is missing, is her lack of respect. She's got to see you as a MAN, and respect you as you as a man, before she'll emotionally accept you into her heart and respect you as her H. Understand? It happened once, it can happen again. One thing in your favor, you have a history together. So, don't give up just yet.

Okay, so all you have to do now is to let her watch from the sidelines. You don't have to be a big fake. For goodness sake, be real, or you'll get nowhere. You don't have to try to get her to see or know what you are doing. Trust me on that on that one, okay? Women know when you are dumping them, even without the formal paperwork. When Brad Pitt fell for Angelina, Jennifer Aniston said that she knew, before Brad dumped her. She said he was "gone" from the moment he met Angelina. Again, not trying to get you involved with another woman, just making a point that your W will know when you emotionally dump her. And if you want to add salt to it.....be somewhat of a charming bloke about it. That'll kill her. But only if you look like Brad Pitt.

So, what comes after she senses you dumping her? She will try all sorts of emotional temperature checks to assure herself she can still manipulate your feelings or actions. When that doesn't work (and it will take several times), she will realize what she's lost.....and that it is probably too late to change your mind. After that drives homes to the pit of her heart, she'll begin to give a hard, unselfish, look at herself. She'll have to take ownership of how she tore the M apart, how she selfishly discarded something precious to seek something that was shallow and destructive to those she loves and to herself. She has to stop blaming her H for any of it. When she is broken.....then she can go to him. She may have to find him, but she can. She needs to humbly apologize, even if it's the hardest thing she's ever done. He didn't deserve what she's done and she feels a lot of remorse for it. If he'll give her another chance to work to on the MR, she'll do whatever he says. She knows she loves him, respects him, and wants him. But, it's his decision if he will take a chance on her. She understands if he says it's too late. His part is not to let her off too easily, by letting her back without doing the required work. What I've described in this paragraph is just her emotional breakthrough and how she needs to feel humble and remorseful and approach him to apologize and ask for another chance. The real work comes after this point. smile

That's pretty much the nutshell version of it. It takes longer than expected to play out, in most cases. So you see, you really do hold more power than you thought. You just have to have the courage to exercise it.

If you want to check it out, I spent the other half of my day writing a long post to Petri. I know, you thought you were the only one, didn't you? wink Actually, you guys have seen nothing of my long posts. You should have been here in my hay day! blush


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Boom. Nice post Sandi.

I wanted to add a point about GAL. The main purpose of GAL is not to distract yourself or make WAS curious. The main point is to meet your emotional needs elsewhere.

See, we all have some basic human needs. Companionship. Someone to witness our life. Acceptance. Approval. Admiration. Respect. Purpose. Identity. And so on.

Too often during a M we look to our partner to fill all of these needs. This not only leads to resentment when they can't, but we stop seeing them as a person. We start seeing them as our path to happiness. They have this halo around them, they represent our salvation, we can't imagining living without them. Without them we'd shrivel up and die, right?

Well, when you GAL all of that changes. You start to take charge of your life again. You define your own identity outside of your WAS or your M. You look to others for companionship and support. You join groups that make you feel part of a community, accepted, appreciated. You do things that give you a purpose. You take responsibility for your own happiness and start filling your own cup.

One day you'll look back at your WAS and instead of seeing a magical goddess that has the powers to grant or deny your soul happiness, you'll see something else. You'll see a miserable woman who is acting like a selfish brat. The spell will be
broken.

This is how why GAL leads to detachment. From there it's so easy to just shrug and walk away, to handle the situation the way you would if any other woman on the planet started screaming and spewing at you. Who needs that, right?

Now, if the day comes she calms down and realizes that she's being a brat and wants to have an adult conversation with you, you can listen. But it won't be you trying to convince her to save you. It will be her trying to convince you to give her the time of day.

And if that day never comes, you'll know you did everything possible to save your M by not enabling her waywardness, and you'll be glad you invested your time and energy into taking care of yourself.


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Oh, and if the day comes you end up in piecing, it will be much less pressure on your marriage when you are in the habit of looking after yourself instead of expecting your partner to be able to fill all of your needs.


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In my sitch W has told that if you don't behave like this and this I'll get my own bigger apartment. When I finally told her to get that apartment I saw what Sandi and all other "oldtimers"(sorry) write about. They kind of freak out. My W gave reasons immediately: it takes time to find an apartment, it takes time to get the money for rent, it may take months etc...it was actually funny to read them.


Me:39 W:36
S:12 D:9
T:14 M:11
Separation:sep. 1 2017
D filed oct. 2017
D finalized july 2018
OM confirmed feb 2018
D finalized July 2018

The fact is this. You have to be in pain before you can learn.
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Sandi:

That was an amazing set of posts. I read what you put here as well as petri's thread. I will read and re-read them while I go through this process.

What I have done to show WW that I'm dumping her:
Told her that her problems are no longer my problems.
Told her that I am not going to be her friend.
Told her that I don't have anything to talk to her about unless it is about money or kids.
Told her that her attorney can contact my attorney any time a D topic has come up.
Any in-person or telephone communication is ended by me.
I go out and have fun on my own or with friends and I don't tell her about it.
Removed myself from the phone plan.
Moved my money, changed my bank account to one she cannot control.
Went no contact.

So once I realized how backwards dealing with a WW is, I decided to just do OPPOSITE of everything I really want to do as the old husband. Everything. I went no contact, I don't respond to her unless it fits the rules, I don't talk to her in person unless I absolutely have to.

I GAL, and I go out and do things. I work out. I'm taking classes at night. I went to a couple concerts. I went to a football game. I'm planning on going to a NYE party with friends. She has been stalking my SM and whatnot, making comments to me about my posts. I never respond.

I have been 99% no contact (besides business) since before Christmas, when I took my kid to stay at a friend's while I visit family. She went from texting me every day and being ignored, to trying to use kids and money as a loophole to start conversations but still getting ignored if it is BS. When she realized that I am only responding in one-sentence emails about REAL BUSINESS matters, she went on a really crazy rant over texts saying that I've created distance between us, and accusing me of trapping her in our home (lol) and has been silent for the past two days.

She has been doing exactly what you said, Sandi: temperature checks. When she got back no emotions from me over the course of almost 2 weeks, she lost it.

Like petri, when my WW was told to leave the house she freaked out and told me that she didn't have the money, had no resources, had no family or friends to help her, and that I'M the one who should move out. When I took the MBR back and she got really mad but surrendered it to me. When I am firm with her, I get much less emotional crap back from her.

So, again... I am going back to the home next week. I will go back to the "neighbor" approach while I am there. Until then, I plan on having a great time for NYE and I really believe I am going to be better off in 2018. I'm planning on being out of the house more and doing more things for myself.

I feel like the past 2-3 weeks I have done a much better job of DBing, but my emotions are still damaged. I have done some healing, but I know the ride is not over. I have a decent poker face so I'll be using it a lot.

Thank you so much for being an amazing resource for us LBS's.


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Wow, I'm impressed, Joe. That is an excellent list that describe all the ways of dumping your WW. That sounds terrible when wording it that way, but as long as everyone understands how it is meant, that is the important thing.

Quote:
I will go back to the "neighbor" approach while I am there


Remember, it's a nosy neighbor that you don't want to hang around and give them information about your personal business. wink My favorite analogy is how you interact with a store checkout clerk. That sums it up quite nicely, IMHO.

Quote:
When I am firm with her, I get much less emotional crap back from her.


I use to add that the H should be polite, etc. But then LBH's would let it become such a stumbling block, that I've about stopped suggesting they not act like a jerk. Just kidding, a little bit about the jerk part, but seriously don't get hung up over being all this or that. I'll just say to remain calm, and do not allow her to get you worked up. If she starts threatening, saying anything about being afraid of you, etc.......get the heck out of there. I've heard of too many trumped up charges by WW's. Just don't ever cow down to her! If she knows you are scared, she's beat you.

I don't think it is necessary to tell her anymore about how you are dumping her. Just enforce it, and let her experience it.

I hope you will check here before you make any great big decision, okay? Not that you can't think for yourself, but it's such an emotional uphill for you guys that it is easy to jump ahead of yourself.

I can't remember if it was you that I recently told not to repeat to your WW the things you read on the board. I'm sure it is tempting to most newcomer LBH's, and it probably sounds like a good thing to do at the time. However, she will know that it doesn't sound like "you". It usually comes across as if the LBH is trying to say something impressive to his WW. In which, that's not good. She does not need to see inside your toolbox, which is the DB advice you receive here. Also, make sure she doesn't see your history if computers are shared.

Good job, Joe. Just continue to prepare yourself emotionally for your trip home. Oh, and another tidbit. Stay alert, or else she will catch you unprepared. There have been so many guys who have said, "She caught me with my guard down". Never underestimate a WW and how selfish, low handed or vindictive she can be. Pray that someday she will get her eyes opened and work to find herself again. I pray it will happen for her and her family's sake. I know you are going to be fine, Joe, with or without her. So, start practicing now. ((hugs))


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Thanks for the feedback, it means a lot to me. I was lucky enough to find out about LRT somewhere around the week 2 mark, and then found this forum and decided to ask for help here.

Around the 2.5 week timeframe, I stumbled a few times trying to have the R talk. She hugged me one time after a conversation about the truth about her A (I got partial truth). I posted here about it and got admonished, and learned to see how my actions were weak. That never happened again.

The last time I mentioned R was when I got served and I told her that I would R with the old W but not this new WW person that she is now. That was around week 3. That's when I started digging in my heels on NC, and have dug them in even deeper.

NC has solved a lot of problems with arguing. However, I do really miss my W. Not the WW but my W. For the past week and a half I've had no physical or voice contact. I know I'm headed into a crapstorm when I return to the house with my boy. And it will be emotional. I am going to practice my standard responses in the mirror before I get back home.

I had played with the idea of a R talk to try to get her to choose recon over D but I posted here about it first and got slapped a few times by you all. Lol. smile Thank you for that.

Oh yeah, I had gotten the tearful and remorseful "I miss talking with you" thing from her a few days after I got served. I told her that she filed for D so we don't have anything to talk about now except money and kids. Man that was hard. It left her dazed, so at least something was going on up there (I hope).

I mean, it has really only been 6 weeks since BD. That's not a lot of time. I haven't had sufficient time to heal from the initial shock of the situation. I think I started DB at a relatively early stage in this process, though.

Maybe it was soon enough to make an attempt at recon. But, maybe not. Either way, the worst thing that happens is D.

And either way it goes I will be a much more rounded person who is also physically fit and more interesting. And God willing, happier.

Last edited by Cadet; 12/30/17 11:28 PM. Reason: Start a new thread message

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You want R between a new W and Joe2018 don't you?

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