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A Message from Michele
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Re: WW ended EA 4 mos ago; trying to restore intimacy [Re: hoosjim] #2770504
12/07/17 04:18 AM
12/07/17 04:18 AM
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doodler Offline
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Originally Posted By: hoosjim
Because she already has this "the holidays have always been a blue/down time for me" preconception, and if i drop all of this on her right now i am being "more of the same hoosjim" that she associates with crappy holidays.


On the other hand, it could give her a taste of just how wonderful Christmas would be with the OM. They could drink beer and tow cars on Christmas Eve and binge watch Ice Road Truckers on Christmas Day.

Re: WW ended EA 4 mos ago; trying to restore intimacy [Re: LH19] #2770507
12/07/17 04:53 AM
12/07/17 04:53 AM
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hoosjim Offline OP
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Quote:
if you don't physically separate and let your W see how life will be w/o you, this will not end well.


LH, I really appreciate your contribution and your time given to offer me your perspective, particularly coming from what must be a very painful position for you, but... I have a hard time agreeing g with this, and it doesnt seem to be supported by the DBing literature.

You, of coyrse, are not the first person to post something to that effect to me but... the idea that "the ONLY path or even the MOST LIKELY path to reconcilluation requires separation just seems nonsensical to me.

What's everyone else's take on the "necesdity" of physical separation in general and... in particular where a couple is at the stage W and I are at (that is, already trying to some degree.)


______
"You are too many. I cannot deliver Midian into your hands,or you would boast...'My own strength has saved me'"--Judg.7:2

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires."--Song of Sg.--2:7
Re: WW ended EA 4 mos ago; trying to restore intimacy [Re: hoosjim] #2770508
12/07/17 04:56 AM
12/07/17 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: hoosjim
What's everyone else's take on the "necesdity" of physical separation in general and... in particular where a couple is at the stage W and I are at (that is, already trying to some degree.)

I have a friend who is reconciled that went your route.
It took about 15 years and then his wife had cancer and decided she now wants to stay married.
They are now both in a SSM.


Me-64, D32,S31
Re: WW ended EA 4 mos ago; trying to restore intimacy [Re: Cadet] #2770509
12/07/17 05:02 AM
12/07/17 05:02 AM
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if you can handle just the way things are right now with no forward movement, then stick with it. You can have a friendship type non-intimate M.

Otherwise, yeah, never saw a reconciliation under the same roof to be anymore than what Cadet mentioned.

And I have actually been here much longer than my "registered" date says.

Re: WW ended EA 4 mos ago; trying to restore intimacy [Re: hoosjim] #2770510
12/07/17 05:02 AM
12/07/17 05:02 AM
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Quote:
the ONLY path or even the MOST LIKELY path to reconcilluation requires separation just seems nonsensical to me.


I am going to have to wholeheartedly support LH and disagree with you hoosjim. Having lived in an in-house separation for couple of months vs. moving out and being physically separate is not even on the same level. It was absolutely crucial for my own reset process to have the physical separation. You are able to achieve the necessary distance to look at yourself, your W, and the MR objectively and get the space to figure yourself out. It also gives the other person a look at life with you. I would rather put my feet on hot coals than live a single minute in the same house.

My mental sanity has improved by a billion fold just not having her around. That alone is priceless.

Quote:
in particular where a couple is at the stage W and I are at (that is, already trying to some degree.)


I am sorry but your W is not trying. Sandi and Artista have already painfully pointed this out to you. You need to look at everything recently that she has done and none of it points to her trying to work on the MR and unequivocally being transparent and full in.


I always thought carefully about why I wanted to do something. Once I made the decision, I never thought about it again.... The opposite of success is not failure. Failure is part of success.

Re: WW ended EA 4 mos ago; trying to restore intimacy [Re: hoosjim] #2770511
12/07/17 05:04 AM
12/07/17 05:04 AM
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San Antonio, Texas
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Originally Posted By: hoosjim
Quote:
Okay, but to me this falls in the category of "just jettisoning her" i mentioned above. In particular, what do i do about the MC. We are already scheduled for next week, and W agreed that after the holiday we should be going every other week at a minimum with "intensives" (2 to 4 one-hour sessions same day) once every 4-6 weeks, as we both (and MC as well) agreed we come out of those more energized and "felling better" about things. Would you recommend just cancelling those without explanation? (we only have two scheduled actually, right now, next week and early January) Continuing to go but being vague about my "fun personal life" (contrary to what MC is preaching to us about full and open honesty)?


Your wife suggested, what do you need to have healing? You are being open, what about your W? Is she giving you full and open honesty?

Because she already has this "the holidays have always been a blue/down time for me" preconception, and if i drop all of this on her right now i am being "more of the same hoosjim" that she associates with crappy holidays.[/quote]

Jim you asked for advice and then you make all the answers about how your W will feel. What about you? Why do your feelings have to be put on hold. Why can't you go out? Why do you have to suffer through Christmas with questions on your heart and mind. So, if you state how you are feeling your are ruining her holidays?


M:34 W:34
T:8 M:7
S13, S10, S7, S1
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Re: WW ended EA 4 mos ago; trying to restore intimacy [Re: hoosjim] #2770512
12/07/17 05:12 AM
12/07/17 05:12 AM
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I agree with LH19. And, honestly, if you do it, I see YOU being perfectly fine and much happier after a couple of months, at the latest. You won't believe how good it feels not to be living in a home -- where you're supposed to feel your greatest comfort and most at ease -- that isn't one where you're constantly being given the message that you're just not good enough, that the life you've built isn't good enough, that your W regrets her choices . . .

I lived your marriage, I lived your in-home separation. I did what you are doing in terms of trying and trying to get your WAS to buy in and see value or potential in coming back emotionally into the M. My ex is so similar to yours it is spooky (to me). Yours may stay out of duty or guilt (although I suspect she's just riding it out until you're empty nesters), but she isn't going to give you what YOU want if you two stay under the same roof, because she truly doesn't believe it's possible for her to do it, absent a "spark" she's always going to wait for but never do anything to bring about. She decided a long, long time ago that she wants "more" out of life than what she perceives herself as having. She's playing the long game to get there relative to some, for sure, but, honestly, other than a flurry of guilt when the OM came to light (when, not in-coincidentally, you were at your most detached it seems) and some corresponding pursuit from her, what can you hang your hat on progress-wise? That you're friendlier, like better roommates? I'd argue that's not nearly enough (for you or anyone who wants a life companion) and is really just a reflection of you having worked on yourself enough to keep things calmer and lighter most of the time. And you're into your fourth year of no sex, I believe? No!

I don't see the harm in waiting until after the holidays to make any moves like this, but I would be doing everything I could, now, to detach (you're still on the emotional hook like a citation-worthy large mouth; it just jumps off the page), GAL -- go back to DB 101, like you're just post-bomb drop.


Me: 46
W: 44
Married: 17
Together 21
D13; S10
BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you)
Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage
Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
Re: WW ended EA 4 mos ago; trying to restore intimacy [Re: joejoe1] #2770513
12/07/17 05:17 AM
12/07/17 05:17 AM
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HJ.....I have no idea how my MR is going to turn out but if I have to go through this I am glad my W moved out and that we are separated. IMO, if you do it right there will be all the time and space both of you need. I have not seen my W since Sunday (for about 5 min) and have not had a conversation with her since Monday morning which was an email exchange about our D's basketball game.

Let me tell you......it is awesome! I am not chasing a thing nor taking table scraps. F that.

I think a lot of books or experts are not in favor of separation because you don't have a chance to communicate and work on the MR. I think those books and experts also assume that both parties are willing to work on the MR which in 99% of our situations that is not the case.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
Re: WW ended EA 4 mos ago; trying to restore intimacy [Re: hoosjim] #2770517
12/07/17 05:34 AM
12/07/17 05:34 AM
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Do you remember me trying to get a straight answer about whether or not your W said she was fully on board with saving the MR? Remember me asking you if you were putting words in mouth, or hearing what you wanted......instead of what she was actually saying? You kind of danced around it, but finally said she did commit. Are you currently saying that it was all half-a$$ed on her part?

Look, I realize that even if she meant it 100% at the time, it doesn't mean she'll carry through and do what needs to be done to heal the MR. What I am talking about here is that you must be painfully honest, Jim, with yourself and with us.......if you want to receive the right advice. All you could think about was the OM/A. Then it was reaching the point of piecing. Then, you were focused on intimacy (although it's been forever since last time). I understand, and this is all common for LBH's. But when I asked questions, or if I had suspicions or suggested something negative about your W.........you would correct me. That's fine, and if I have it wrong, I want to know. However, I am having a bit of a frustrating moment (after reading your recent posts) wondering how much you were pushing and just how much she truly was on board.

As I have told you, the actions you take with a repentant and willing W who commits to doing the work........is not the same as when she is rebelling against the MR. I agree that you are not in piecing. Based on what you were reporting, I thought she was working to get through the withdrawal & mourning period. I feel this is necessary, in order to be able to really work on piecing.......otherwise, you are wasting your time. It appeared that you were inching your way along, until the BFF weekend. And now.......I learn she never put her wedding ring back on........which is a sign of rebellion, IMHO. And, there are some other things coming out now, that cause suspicion about her. You get a little wish-wash about the jewelry, but her own words and actions are what I am seeing that aren't good.

You really need to stop making excuses and rationalizations for her.......unless you want to live in ignorant bliss.

I asked you to see how she responded in the recent MC. Did the MC assign more homework? What was W's attitude during the session? How did she act on the way home? Did she seem distant, in deep thought, texting, cold, or encouraged and talkative?

I agree with the others about having a R talk. It does not advance the R, at this particular time. In fact, the things you report that she's currently saying, are nearly word for word conversations in the past. It's like watching a carousel. frown. You must have the patience of Job!

((hugs))




Last edited by Cadet; 12/07/17 05:51 AM. Reason: Start a new thread message

It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: WW ended EA 4 mos ago; trying to restore intimacy [Re: sandi2] #2770521
12/07/17 05:55 AM
12/07/17 05:55 AM
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Posts: 1,428
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There was a conversation about moving out 3 or 4 months ago in your thread, at that time, you were not willing to move out... Unless that has changed, why even ask the question?

I was a big proponent of you moving out at the time, but am pretty neutral about it now. You've had time to slow down the spinning, there seems to be a general peace in your home, so I don't feel that it is a "necessary" step at this time. But I do feel that you need to put the focus on you, which will also help if S occurs later.

As for comments about never seeing anyone successfully piece after in-house separation, while rare, I know of TxHubby as one who was successful, so far. I have also seen a lot of S that didn't result in successful piecing, so it is not a guarantee.


M - 9 1/2 years
5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA
10/31/16 - We sold house
01/10/18 - D Finalized
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