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hoosjim Offline OP
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So, the consensus, including me, appears to be that in order for any effort at reconcilliation to be worthwhile, that W needs to be "all in". Further, if she is not, that i should, in some respect, "let her go." So, my question to everyone (not just Ginger to whom i am "responding" here) is: What do those two things "look like", in your opinion ("all in" and "letting her go"). Coconut kind of responded to this a little bit, below in terms of what he thinks I should be doing for me, but... given the particular dynamic in my case (I've thrown all in to this, I am being a good husband, offering some pursuit, being cheerful, PMA, going to counselling, etc., and her voicing some level of commitment to it but not, apparently whole-heartedly.)

What i mean, is, how do i approach each of these facets with my W? The first seems a little clearer-- I just need to talk to her, ask her in no uncertain terms: "Why are you doing this, why did you break it off with OM, are you fully committed to this marriage and doing whatever it takes to renew/restore/fix it?" and hope for an unequivocal answer.

The second, to me, would something like: "W, i know you have been trying, and doing alot of things that you know I want you to do WRT working on our MR, but... I can tell your heart is just not in it... you've told me your heart is not really in it. I don't want to continue with this under those circumstances... i want us to have an amazing, fulfilling MR and I don't see it happening the way things are going right now. You've said you need to get some things of your own figured out, and mentioned IC several times now, so if you want time and space to figure those things out, and get counselling, you're welcome to stay here as long as you are not seeing other men. You're also welcome to go if you think that's best. I am not saying i want a separation, just that right now, where you are, I don't know how beneficial further MC would be." And then pull back, stop pursuing, be pleasant when around her, and go have fun and be amazing on my own. Presumably all after Christmas.

What are other posters' thoughts on this. The second aspect of this seems the trickier by far... how to disengage and reverse course when we've already gone down that road a bit, and without doing any further, permanent damage to our R that might keep us from reconciling in the future.



And should have added to the above at the end of the second paragraph: "And what, in y'all's opinion, does "all in" and "unequivocal" look like coming from my W?"

Last edited by Cadet; 12/07/17 03:37 AM. Reason: Combine posts

H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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Jim,

It doesn't need to be all or nothing, a "discussion" about it kind of puts it in that context.

Do not talk to her about it, just do it. You don't need to explain what you are doing and why, in fact doing so is BAD. Let her ask if she wants to know, and keep your response general, something to the effect of "Just keeping my life fun".

It's ok, beneficial even, if she thinks she may be losing you. Please DO NOT discuss this with her before just making changes for you.

Wanna know how to start, text a friend or two right now, tell them you want to do something new, fun, exciting, whatever and make plans with them to do it. Then when the day/time comes, just tell your W that your going out with "friend(s)" to do X.


M - 9 1/2 years
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01/10/18 - D Finalized
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Originally Posted By: hoosjim

And should have added to the above at the end of the second paragraph: "And what, in y'all's opinion, does "all in" and "unequivocal" look like coming from my W?"


sorry missed this.. Think about what you've done over the last year or so, what you've said and actions you've taken. That's what all in looks like. You'll know when / if it happens.


M - 9 1/2 years
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everything coconut said in addition to no more intel, no more tracking, no more limitations on where she is going. Let her decide if she wants to do it or not. Let it be HER CHOICE to do so.

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And, finally, does anyone out there actually think/believe that W and I can reconcile by just "riding this out", without any kind of pause/separation here, continuing the MC through her "withdrawal/mourning" period, her seeking out IC, and us working through the intimacy restoration progression?


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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Originally Posted By: hoosjim
W, i know you have been trying, and doing alot of things that you know I want you to do WRT working on our MR, but... I can tell your heart is just not in it... you've told me your heart is not really in it.


This statement is contradictory. You are telling her you know she is in the relationship at the same telling her you know she wasn't. You know she wasn't so just say, "W, we talked about working on the M, and I'm giving my all to ensure we work, but I can tell you are not. It seems to me that you are not fully committed to making our M work". That's the truth, from what you have wrote to us, she isn't fully committed so be honest with her about your feelings. Don't try to not hurt hers, just be honest. Make your feelings a priority.

I also think you can pull back. If you truly think she is still involved with the OM, I'm not saying that she is or that you have hard evidence, but if you truly feel that way, then pull back some. Also, I think you need to start engaging your W on your feelings and what you suspect. If you feel a way about something make it known. If the bracelet is bothering you, I would tell her, tell her what you think about it, then tell her you think she should get rid of it. That bracelet shouldn't hold more value than your feelings and the M. I think your a placing your feelings and priorities on the backseat to not upset or push your W away. But IMO, if you'll working on the M, she should respect your feelings and your opinions. She is the one that cheated and she should be doing more work to prove to you that she isn't cheating anymore and she wants to be with you.

You have to hold her accountable for her actions, she went to the mall, and if you truly feel you know why, then say, "I think you went to the mall because of this reason, instead of saying, why did you go to the mall". You deserve an explanation, you shouldn't have to interrogate her for an answer. She should want to be open and transparent, and she is not giving you that. (she know her going to the mall to bother you, so she should of called you before hand and said, she was going) When she gives you those blanket statements, tell her those types of answer makes you feel uncomfortable and not confident about her commitment to the M.

IMO also, I think you need to ask those def questions, why did she break it off with OM, was it because she wanted to be M? You also need to ask, how did she break it off, was it by text, phone call, email. Or did she just stop talking to him. If she sent and email or text, ask to see it. Ask her what did she tell him, to let him know she was calling quits with him, also ask if she told him she was working on the M. Those are two different things, her telling him she's stopping the R and her telling him she is working on the M. She should tell him both, leaving no openings about their future. You need def in all these answers and you should be able to drill down with her and she not get defensive. Or else you mind will make up it's own answers.

Why wait until after Christmas? You have 3 weeks before Christmas, why put yourself through that stress for 3 more weeks. You deserve to know.

I hope this isn't to blunt, just my opinions.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
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Quote:
It doesn't need to be all or nothing, a "discussion" about it kind of puts it in that context.

Do not talk to her about it, just do it. You don't need to explain what you are doing and why, in fact doing so is BAD. Let her ask if she wants to know, and keep your response general, something to the effect of "Just keeping my life fun".


Okay, but to me this falls in the category of "just jettisoning her" i mentioned above. In particular, what do i do about the MC. We are already scheduled for next week, and W agreed that after the holiday we should be going every other week at a minimum with "intensives" (2 to 4 one-hour sessions same day) once every 4-6 weeks, as we both (and MC as well) agreed we come out of those more energized and "felling better" about things. Would you recommend just cancelling those without explanation? (we only have two scheduled actually, right now, next week and early January) Continuing to go but being vague about my "fun personal life" (contrary to what MC is preaching to us about full and open honesty)?

What you're suggesting is textbook DB-ing and makes sense... but doesn't seem to account for where W and I are, ummm.... procedurally(?)


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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Quote:
Why wait until after Christmas? You have 3 weeks before Christmas, why put yourself through that stress for 3 more weeks. You deserve to know.


Because she already has this "the holidays have always been a blue/down time for me" preconception, and if i drop all of this on her right now i am being "more of the same hoosjim" that she associates with crappy holidays.


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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Originally Posted By: hoosjim
You're welcome to stay here as long as you are not seeing other men. You're also welcome to go if you think that's best. I am not saying i want a separation, just that right now, where you are, I don't know how beneficial further MC would be." And then pull back, stop pursuing, be pleasant when around her, and go have fun and be amazing on my own. Presumably all after Christmas.


I have posted on your thread in the past because your sitch reminds me a lot of mine and we are close in age. My W was "trying" for roughly 2 years. We were even having great sex during that time frame. However, I could always tell her heart wasn't into it.I am about one month away from being divorced.

MY sitch was never going to get better with us living together. Like Sandi always says " I have never heard of a couple reconciling during in house separation."

IMO if you say what you mentioned above your wife will gladly accept that offer and then leave you minute she finds somebody else. In other words, if you don't physically separate and let your W see how life will be w/o you, this will not end well.

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what I'm suggesting is a different mindset for you.. One where you are living your life for you, you are having fun, you are enjoying this moment of life that you will never get back.

Nothing else needs to change if you don't want it to, in fact, I wouldn't go changing everything at once.

Don't over analyze living your life, just change your focus from "doing everything possible to save your marriage" to "doing everything possible to enjoy your life".

Originally Posted By: hoosjim

Okay, but to me this falls in the category of "just jettisoning her" i mentioned above. In particular, what do i do about the MC. We are already scheduled for next week, and W agreed that after the holiday we should be going every other week at a minimum with "intensives" (2 to 4 one-hour sessions same day) once every 4-6 weeks, as we both (and MC as well) agreed we come out of those more energized and "felling better" about things. Would you recommend just cancelling those without explanation? (we only have two scheduled actually, right now, next week and early January) Continuing to go but being vague about my "fun personal life" (contrary to what MC is preaching to us about full and open honesty)?

What you're suggesting is textbook DB-ing and makes sense... but doesn't seem to account for where W and I are, ummm.... procedurally(?)


It's not jetising her, again, your not being mean or ignoring her, if she shows interest allow her to join, whatever, but do it to enjoy yourself. You are not going to be doing something every minute of every day, your not disappearing from the house, much of your life will remain fairly similar, except you will be focusing on improving/enjoying yourself rather than saving your M.

As for Marriage counseling (or anything else that comes up), just go with the flow. How about this, if she approaches you about going, say sure; let her make the appointment (don't tell her to, but if she does), and then you go. Just don't initiate it, let her do the work.


M - 9 1/2 years
5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA
10/31/16 - We sold house
01/10/18 - D Finalized
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