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A Message from Michele
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#2770023 - 12/04/17 01:58 AM Re: I may be here forever [Re: Dawn70]
Ginger1 Online
Member

Registered: 02/14/15
Posts: 1906
It's been a loooooong time since I said this on the boards, but who want's to give me a 2x4???

So, I ended up going out Friday and had a few drinks. The night before I had all these dreams about FF and they really had me bothered. So I did something really, really stupid. I unblocked him on FB for a minute and sent him a message asking him why he sent me a text when he had me blocked. he responded right away. he said he doesn't remember ever sending it. I told him I figured as much, but curiosity admittedly go the best of me. I told him I hope all is well and says "yup, all is well, well talk to you the next time, hhahaha" and I said as a joke, "the next time you drunk text me?" and then he types to me "late night h.u?" I said "mistakes happen" the second he said "late night H.u." then he said "mistakes happen?!@ what do you mean by that. I told him I was referring tot he mistaken text. he said, oh, I thought you were talking about the hook-up. At which point I finally realized what "h.u" meant. he tells me to let him know if I want to take him up on that offer, and before I could reply, he blocked me.

Yup, he was trying to make an arse out of me. Then proceeds to block me so I cannot respond. I was pissed. I was really hoping he wasn't such an immature a hole. it makes me look back and think how pathetic I was to feel safe and loved by this guy, safe enough to let my daughter in, and it turns out he was just playing games all along. Why he hates me so much now, I do not know. I didn't do anything.

I pretty much trust no guy anymore. It just really made me sick that he was the one that I did but he ended up being as nutty as the rest of them. I am getting over it. I hate feeling like a fool, I guess.

The weekend was good, though, although I drank entirely too much alcohol. Sat. night I had a Christmas party. My very good DB friend's cousin's party. I am fortunate to even be friend's with his cousin. I got to see them all and it was so much fun. I felt like ME for a night. Social, having fun, and not faking it. I really want to move where said friend lives. (this has been considered before because it is where said ex-ng is) I really like it up there, I would have a good base of friends and it is a lot more affordable. but I just can't because of D10. I really need a change of scenery and I feel like I just need to get out of here, but I have to wait until the kiddo is 18.

Soooo, D10 facetimed me last night because she was so excited she finished her book. She really dislikes reading, but she read this book pretty good. She is in her room with the her door open and I hear ex-h SCREAMING and cursing. He sounded really angry and vicious. I remember what that used to be like. I have no idea who it was directed towards, but D10 was like "oooohhhh, daddy is really angry" She luckily can block it out pretty well, and I stayed on the phone with her until I didn't hear him screaming anymore. Lord knows, I do not miss being a victim of that. he can be really vicious. he lacks any patience what-so-ever.

This week is insanely buy for me. I have many appts and things to do for D10. I pray I get through this week with my sanity!

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#2770030 - 12/04/17 03:18 AM Re: I may be here forever [Re: Ginger1]
Dawn70 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/14
Posts: 978
Ginger...I am not going to give you a 2x4 because I probably need several myself on a regular basis, so I don't think I'm the right one to give them, but I will say this.....DO NOT beat yourself up about trusting, loving, letting FF in. You had NO clue at the time how he was and how things would end. You went into it honest and open and assumed he did too. You find out now that he didn't and that freaking blows, quite honestly, but never, ever, EVER downplay your own feelings about a situation. You acted and reacted based on what he presented to you and he's obviously one h3ll of an actor. I find myself saying this to you often, mainly because we seem so similar, but I know how you feel because I really didn't want to ever trust men again either after I figured out what a great actor my XH was. Don't let one bad seed ruin it for you, though. There are good guys out there and there is one that is just right for you. I totally understand not wanting to feel like a fool, though. I think that is part of my fear in putting myself out there sometimes. I don't want to look/feel foolish.

Prayers for your busy week. Hang in there, lady.....things WILL get better.
_________________________
Me 47, XH 49
3 adult daughters from his first marriage
3 grandsons, 1 granddaughter
My 1st marriage, his 2nd
BD 9/29/2014
H moved out 10/6/2014
H filed D 11/4/2014
D final 12/17/2014

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#2770053 - 12/04/17 06:02 AM Re: I may be here forever [Re: Dawn70]
DonH Online
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 948
Loc: Midwest / Me 53/ WAW-EXW 52 Me...
OMG I'm going to give BOTH OF YOU (Ginger & Dawn70) a 2X4!!!! Ginger is doing it and Dawn70 is cheering her on!

Originally Posted By: Dawn70
DO NOT beat yourself up about trusting, loving, letting FF in. You had NO clue at the time how he was and how things would end.


I just cannot agree and I'll bet others here can't either. THERE WERE CLUEs!!! A trusting, loving relationship has to be EARNED - not just given. Many here were throwing up flags and flares (CLUES) when it was going on. We said, please don't involve D10 (then D9) and don't go so fast, please slow down. It was said over and over again. These warnings were all rebuffed because this was the real thing and he was a great guy, blah, blah, blah "I just know it."

I don't want to throw 2X4s for what happened 9 months ago but for crying out loud, if we don't learn from it and change our behavior, we'll never get better and grow. Worse yet, we'll repeat the behavior that got us here in the first place. That's part of what this community is here for - to help us see what we can't see ourselves when we are in the thick of it. We can then hopefully change our behavior to be more productive to our lives.

I almost thought we were going to have a repeat with the guy from Match a few weeks ago. I could see you going down that exact same track again. I think you want it soooooo bad G that you are willing to create it in your head and refuse to see what is in front of you or refuse to hear what those here try to say. Now in this case, this guy was far enough away from what you want that this put some brakes on for you. Still, you were willing to keep trying with him and who knows what may have happened had he not came to you and said, thanks but no thanks.

I so understand this Ginger as it happens to me - or at least did years ago. (nothing much happens to me anymore) But I too would struggle to see and figure out what was right in front of me, because I'm in it. When I'm not in it, I can see all of this a mile apart. I am soooooooo good at it - unless I'm part of it and then I stink at it. I see you do the same thing as you give amazing advice to other people here - you just don't give good advice to yourself.

As for this episode, I must say I'm concerned - not as much as what you did but by the fact that you are still so much effected by such a short R. The benchmark I've always read and believe in is it takes 1/3 of the time of the R to fully, completely get over it. Therefore if you are with someone for 9 years, it could take UP TO 3 years to fully get over that person. I don't know how it relates to short-term Rs but wow, this has been over for 9 months now and it only lasted like 3 or 4. It should have only taken a month or two. Why is it still so inside of you G? Why are you still so wrapped up in FF? My best guess is because you created this whole fantasy in side of your head. It seems like that's what you do. You want something so badly that you lose all sight of reality and create it in your head. It almost seems like that's what you were already doing with Match guy. (or was it POF?)

I don't know what went on with this latest interaction with FF. I had a hard time following the interaction with him on FB messenger even. From how you describe it, I'm not sure he was suggesting a HU or thought you were????? He was not serious as he blocked you before getting an answer. Trust me, if I were fishing for that - and I'll bet IF he was - I/he would not block the person before getting the answer. Perhaps he thought you were and was not interested? I'm not sure.

What appears clear is he has zero interest in anything with you at this point - not even friendly conversation. What I'm more and more sure about, is this was not the R for him that it was for you. It well could have been because he was enjoying time spent with you and the sex. I will fully admit to doing this years back. I was not that into the woman but she was fun enough and the sex was good enough to keep it going until something else came along. Now in my cases, I nearly always told the person as much - or at least never lead them to believe there was more. They may have thought "he'll change" or "I'll win him over" but I never said "I see a future with you." if I did not. It's just more and more clear to me that's where FF was. You two were just never on the same page about your R - even if it seemed that way. That's why it TAKES TIME for these things to develop. That does not mean he didn't like you or enjoy being with you. I'll bet he did - but not for the long term. That's as much or more about HIM than it is about YOU!

The bottom line for me and this post and this 2X4 is this is going to keep happening if you don't change the way you are doing this. You have to start making them earn your love and your R. It's not something to be given to them until they do something to lose it. It has to be earned. D should not be involved early on - as nearly everyone here agrees. Sleep overs should not start after a week or two. You just can't go from zero to 60 in three seconds. It has to be a "this guy may have potential" for a few months to "This guy may be the real deal and I'm enjoying getting to know him more" for the next six months to "I'm more encouraged by this guy and am getting more trusting of him." At that point D10 comes into the picture. Then after a year or so it can be "He seems like the real deal and I think he's going to be a keeper." That's the time table you should be shooting for. If you are at the "He's going to be a keeper" status after 6 weeks, it's a crap shoot at best. People just will not reveal themselves sooner than that - especially the players.

I really hate to be rehashing the past but I can't help but think, it's still the MO of the present and that needs to change. I don't know how to have you change that - only that it's in play. You somehow have to get yourself to acting as the prize to be perused rather than the one chasing after the prize. Make sense?

As for FF - this really has to be the end now. NO MORE. He has to be done. There should be absolutely no confusion and honestly, that is something to thank him for. Other than perhaps that single text, he's not been sending mixed messages. He's been crystal clear. HIS LOSS. He had his chance - you MUST be done with him. He does not deserve you - he really does not. Stop lowering yourself. You are the prize - a prize he does not deserve. I really, honestly, truly believe that. Do you?
_________________________
DonH

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#2770063 - 12/04/17 06:37 AM Re: I may be here forever [Re: DonH]
Dawn70 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/14
Posts: 978
Originally Posted By: DonH
OMG I'm going to give BOTH OF YOU (Ginger & Dawn70) a 2X4!!!! Ginger is doing it and Dawn70 is cheering her on!

Originally Posted By: Dawn70
DO NOT beat yourself up about trusting, loving, letting FF in. You had NO clue at the time how he was and how things would end.


I just cannot agree and I'll bet others here can't either. THERE WERE CLUEs!!! A trusting, loving relationship has to be EARNED - not just given. Many here were throwing up flags and flares (CLUES) when it was going on. We said, please don't involve D10 (then D9) and don't go so fast, please slow down. It was said over and over again. These warnings were all rebuffed because this was the real thing and he was a great guy, blah, blah, blah "I just know it."


Well, Don, I'm certainly a big girl and willing to take my 2x4s and not argue about them, particularly on someone else's page. I would like to point out, though, that I wasn't so much "cheering her on" as I was trying to get her to not be so hard on herself. I saw where you said you disagree and that is fine because we are all adults and I can stand people disagreeing with me. However, I'll even go you one further, I AGREE with everything you said about the red flags waving from folks on the board. I agreed with all of you who were waving them at the time and I still agree that there were red flags. My point, though, in my recent post to Ginger was that SHE was not seeing them because I think we ALL have a tendency to not see things when we feel a certain way, but the crux of the matter wasn't so much whether the red flags were there or not as that I don't think she should continue to beat herself up about falling for someone she thought was a nice guy and letting him in. Where we may or may not agree (don't know, but I am leaning toward disagreement here) is that it seems to be human nature, particularly in the early stages when we are enamored of someone and not seeing any faults, to ignore others' advice and just see all the rosiest parts of the person and their behavior. I'm certainly not trying to speak for Ginger or anyone else for that matter, but I KNOW I do that and I think Ginger did too and I totally understand where she's coming from since I have done it myself. THAT was the point to my post....to try and help her not beat herself up over something because that doesn't do her any good.

So, back to my original sentence, I'm willing to take my 2x4 and say thank you for pointing it out, Don. I appreciate all that you said and absolutely agree with most of it.

And, Ginger, sorry for the hijack, but I stand by what I originally said....do NOT keep beating yourself up about FF. There's much better out there for you and you DESERVE it!
_________________________
Me 47, XH 49
3 adult daughters from his first marriage
3 grandsons, 1 granddaughter
My 1st marriage, his 2nd
BD 9/29/2014
H moved out 10/6/2014
H filed D 11/4/2014
D final 12/17/2014

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#2770069 - 12/04/17 06:52 AM Re: I may be here forever [Re: Dawn70]
DonH Online
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 948
Loc: Midwest / Me 53/ WAW-EXW 52 Me...
I actually think we do agree on most of this. Perhaps my point was not as clear - or as usual I wrote too many words to make it. Broken down:

I don't want Ginger or anyone to "beat themselves up" for something. That's not going to be productive. However, we need to acknowledge it - or perhaps admit it and then TAKE STEPS to not repeat it. That's what I was trying to say. Claiming "You had no clue at the time" is just plain NOT TRUE. There were clues and letting anyone off the hook with a - "it's not your fault, you had no clue" does not, in my opinion, push them to make changes. We can't change what we don't first acknowledge. People in general tend to keep making the same mistakes over and over again if something doesn't happen to break the cycle. Sometimes a little tough love to our friends goes farther than saying it's not their fault, they had no clue, it's all the guy's (in this case) fault.

Most everything else we seem to agree on - including it's much, much harder when in the middle of it all. And I really stand by the fact that FF does not deserve someone like Ginger. I just hope she starts to see that as the rest of us do. G is still one of my favorite people here, which is why I'm willing to hold her to a higher standard. I know she will measure up.
_________________________
DonH

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#2770190 - 12/05/17 03:11 AM Re: I may be here forever [Re: DonH]
Ginger1 Online
Member

Registered: 02/14/15
Posts: 1906
Don't you worry, Dawn, I don't need to beat myself up, Don gave me quite a good @sskicking!

I wasn't even thinking into it that much. But now that you put it out there, some I agree with, some you are completely off base.

Yes, part me of regrets bringing D10 into the mix. Not because she is damaged by it, because she is not at all, but because it was hard to separate my life after that. I took a little bit of a selfish risk, but I knew this would be the only time I would take that risk. She already knew him,spent 5 days a week in the gym interacting with us.... it wasn't going to be able hidden long, so I took the chance. I however, will not be taking such a chance so easily again. lesson learned.

Do I think I made more of our R and he just saw me as fun times and good sex? No. men in my life have seen me that way, I will admit, but we were on the same level until he wasn't anymore. I am not disappointed in how he handled our R. I am disappointed in how he handled us afterwards. It just proved his immaturity.

I do not believe in rules and time tables and equations about getting over people. Certain people you can know for a long time, but not spend much time with them or not know them on a deeper level and get over them rather easily. Some people can become a big part of your life in a short time and on a deep level, and you can't put an equation to that. However, I did get over him, but maybe not the way things ended. I also, of course, in a time of lonliness has a longer time getting over the way I felt when I was with him. If I was stopping my life because of feelings for him, I would say "enough is enough" already. But my heart has finally opened to the possibility of others.

I also feel as if I handled my recent encounters with men like a pro, and I have been rather proud of myself, rather than wanting to beat myself up over that. one guy messed with me, I said "bye bye" one was obviously not a good fit, I said "bye bye". One wasn't fireworks, but was nice enough and I thought I might give him one more date where we needed to get to know each other a little better. I don't think it would have been wrong for me to do that. He made the decision for me, which is fine.

I also had a good session with my IC yesterday, and I went over yet again, was there anything I did wrong with FF. She says no. She did not see blazing red flags because we fell for eachother quickly. She knows my personality, and I am not a very guarded person, but I am smart.

when it comes to red flags and the such, I no longer ignore waving red flags. But If someone doesn't fit a perfect mold of what I think they should be, I do not let that stop me. That's not fair to hold people to some unrealistic standard. We all have our differences, we may see things differently, and someone who doesn't check off a million boxes, I won't count out. Unless they have low moral standards.

So, I really do feel as if I have come a long way and not doing the same stupid stuff.

All that being said, I have decided to not look at all, not try, nothing. Just accept the fact that this simply may be how it is going to be for me. For some reason it's not meant for me, and the constant disappointment is wearing me down. So I will just go about keeping myself busy as I normally do. I am really going to focus on the job sitch. I hope to get the side gig I want, plus a big move on my main career. Doing my best to enjoy the holidays, still trying to rehab this knee which is moving a little slower these days. Just putting focus elsewhere. Sure, I am ready to hire one of those professional cuddlers because I miss it so much, but I'll just have to keep distracting.


Edited by job (12/05/17 11:33 PM)
Edit Reason: edited a word

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#2770218 - 12/05/17 05:21 AM Re: I may be here forever [Re: Ginger1]
DonH Online
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 948
Loc: Midwest / Me 53/ WAW-EXW 52 Me...
You sound amazingly stronger and much more like yourself from your first post to this one. This is the Ginger I know!!! - or at least I think I know. We may have to agree to disagree about the R with FF itself. You were there and I was not so all I can do is guess and assume. I might feel differently if I was there. It makes total sense why you would be more hurt about how he left and how he handled the breakup. That makes total sense. I just think that's part of the risk you take when jumping in with both feet so early before someone has the time to fully reveal them self.

I agree you've handled the last few guys very well but the dynamics and specifics helped. It sure seemed like you were starting the same behaviors of speeding things up, not holding back, not waiting. I again don't want to beat you or anyone up for the past but unless we are willing to acknowledge what we did wrong, we won't change our behavior. I fear there is some of that going on here. Who ever wants to admit they F'd up. I get that. Plus I think you can be a bit stubborn. smile. But, clearly, based on outcome you've done well. You've also had the guts to try even with the past hurt and that's good.

BTW "red flags" for me are not based on incompatibility, likes, dilikes, but instead based on behaviors, morals, ethics, neediness, addictions, etc.

Interesting you may be heading the direction I've seemed to have landed on. I can tell you I'm much less frustrated and I think happier. It takes a lot out of you/me to kee trying and keep getting beaten up. Going through the rejection, the ghosting, the not knowing. But then too the disappointment of people who may be interested in you but you not in the. It's tiring and exhausting. Thing is, I am pretty sure you still want an R more than I do, but I can tell you that it's been about 6 months now since I stopped trying and it gets easier everyday - so much so that I fear I may never find my way back.

Looks like we will both see if all of those people who say that someone will come along when we least expect it and we are not looking for it know what they are talking about.

And to come full circle to how this started. DON'T CONTACT FF AGAIN - EVER!!!
_________________________
DonH

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#2770244 - 12/05/17 06:48 AM Re: I may be here forever [Re: DonH]
uRworthy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 3297
Hello my friend. I have wanted to write to you, however, I had to stop myself because my initial reaction was one of wanting to protect you. I know it's because I know you and how I feel about you.

That doesnt really help you on here. Here's what I think for what it's worth. People can tell you things until they're blue in the face...but it wont matter until you feel that way.

I think you know yourself really well. As far as FF...you felt as you did. Not up to me to judge.

I think we feel things on a different level than most because of our abandonment issues and all. So that when we get that "feeling" again...it touches us to our core. And that is what you felt when he acted as he did. Yet another person "leaving". And then it brings up all the feelings of inadequacy that comes with that. What is wrong with us that they felt they had to leave?

I wish I could tell you that it goes away. For me, it has dulled a lot. I can say that when someone leaves my life, it stings for a bit, but, those deep feelings are more fleeting. Not to say they arent there...because they always are beneath the surface if I dig deep enough, but, I am better able to discern whether it was a lacking in me or in them or something else.

I guess because of all the work Ive done and I am doing, I understand some things more. People are people. Not everyone is going to like me or want to stay in my life and that is ok. I really don't need quantity...it is quality I crave.

I think you know your worth...most of the time. But when things like this happen, it is a knee jerk reaction to go right back to the feelings we know so well. It is our comfort zone.

To break free of that is hard work. I know you arent afraid of that. I believe that FF showed you the possibilities. And once you glimpse that...you want it. Perfectly normal to want that, sweetie. It feels good.

My fear for you isnt that you will give up trying to get what you want...it's that you will stop seeing the possibilities. It kinda makes life worth living some. The idea that it may not happen...but it is possible, ya know?

But I also believe that there is something to letting go, To just see where life takes you. To just allow things to unfold. I really do believe that it where things we never thought would happen...do.

I so admire the work you do on yourself, G. Its tough to look inward in therapy. But its where we need to be to get to where we are truly good with ourselves.

You are depressed. I can feel it. I know that feeling well. Struggled through it my whole life...still do. When we are, we tend to hold onto thoughts more than we should.

One of the greatest things I learned on here is to let go. I dont always do it..thats for sure. But man, when I do..it is so freeing.

Let go, G. I mean really and truly just see where you land. I would put the whole match thing on hold for a little while.

Live your life. Have fun. Work hard and play hard. And remember, the best gift you can give your girl is to show her that you matter, too. Love you, my friend. Hope to see you on Saturday.

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#2770498 - 12/07/17 03:55 AM Re: I may be here forever [Re: uRworthy]
Ginger1 Online
Member

Registered: 02/14/15
Posts: 1906
HI UR. I am glad to see you stopped by. I do have abandonment issues, and I try the whole self worth thing, knowing I am worth staying for, if the person is right and can appreciate what they have. I guess I get frustrated when I finally truly can see within myself that I am worthy, but no one else can.

I am depressed. You are absolutely right. My depression comes when I lose hope of possibilities. You nailed that one too. When I think it isn't even possible anymore because of what history has shown me.

So, in the past few days I have indeed let go. Let of of FF, the mind movies even stopped, replaying everything. It no longer matters or has any weight in my life. I guess I got my closure there. My mind just sort of stopped going every past relationship just trying to figure out why everyone leaves. I just decided to unburden myself.

I am in need of love and affection, it's been a loooooong time, but I am living without it. I keep busy. I just let the mental load go. I don't try to figure out how to meet a guy or find a guy, I just don't have the capacity to deal with it right now.

I am just going to cruise along, give myself day by day. Try to find the joy in small things.

6 more weeks of PT. I have things to really push on now. I am getting a new contraption so I don't have a contracture. I can only laugh when I look at this whole thing has happened. One jump. GAL. It's just kind of hilarious now. I saw my doc yesterday and he has grown a beard and he is so gorgeous I don't think I heard much of what he said. Yeah...... my needs are kicking in. Hot guy has PT at the same time as I do with my therapist. I need a cool shower these days, haha. But relationship-wise? I let that go for now.

I used to be afraid of looking inward. I was always so scared some horrible being would be revealed. Now, I realize just a HUMAN being is revealed.

Can't wait to see you!!!!

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#2771283 - 12/13/17 07:55 AM Re: I may be here forever [Re: Ginger1]
Ginger1 Online
Member

Registered: 02/14/15
Posts: 1906
Journaling....

Last night I had a nightmare, and I woke up yelling and sweating. IN the dream, ex and I had decided to throw a very small party for D10 with 6 or 7 people. I show up at this party and there are over 50 people there. I am so mad about this. I overhear someone saying that OWW was very upset because she found out she can't have kids and they had decided to try. I began screaming at them in front of this crowd "I am sorry, but this is karma, and you both deserve this!" I also woke up saying that.

That morning D10 had offered me something to eat and I said "no thanks, I am watching the carbs" She said "oh, you and OWW are exactly alike she is watching them too". I admittedly was snarky and said "we are nothing alike" D10 got all defensive and said "you are calling OWW fat, that's not nice!" Totally not what I was implying at all (yes, is pretty overweight, I guess that's why she said that). Hey, I can't be an angel and sometimes something slips out of my mouth.

I noticed that OWW texts D10 a lot when she is with me. All these "I miss you's" and "hope you are having a great weekend with mommy". I know, I am supposed to be "thankful" or something that she's good to my daughter. But it gets under my skin. Petty? Maybe.

Same old as far as everything else in my life. I read a fantastic blog post yesterday on "single dad laughing" (am I allowed to say that?) and he explained the exact lonliness I feel. It was sad, but refreshing knowing I am not alone. I shared it on FB because I knew some people might be able to relate.

Otherwise, I go to bed around 9pm because I ain't got nothing going on. TV is boring me, I haven't found a book to captivate me, I don't feel like cleaning, so I pop a Xanax and drift off to sleep.

On a good note, I survived an exercise class on Monday. I modified, but I made it the whole 60 min. Felt good!

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