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I am glad to see that you both have laid some cards on the table. The way I see it, this is a start towards (maybe) a new beginning. It's never too late to start anew.

My question to you is...do you still love the man? I want you to think about that for a while and come back and post.

If you were to begin a new relationship w/your h, what would you like to see him bring to the table, i.e., qualities. What attracted you to him in the first place?

In my own opinion, from all of your postings, I personally think your marriage could be saved....but you both would need to come to the table w/the understanding that you need to discuss the entire relationship and not just when you were distant and his crisis. Both of you would need to look at the entire relationship and begin working on those things that could be repaired. Once that begins, I would suggest that you two date for a while. That means just the two of you, son would need a sitter. The focus must be on the two of you. If, after a while, you both discover that too much time and distance has taken place, then you both can decide what to do about the marriage.

You both will not truly know what you want if you don't start talking and doing things as a couple.

mleigh, this is my 2 cents for the day.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi M, checking in

Originally Posted By: Mleigh
If you take these same two people, and they start to treat each other with kindness, respect, attention and make the other their priority...can they begin to see each other differently? Can feelings and attraction grow back? Is love a choice?


This jumped out at me, particularly your final question: is love a choice. Yes. Love is a choice. Every day we wake up and we have a choice to actively foster love or to actively foster something else. This is a big one for me, and I've struggled a lot with the fact that exh woke up every day and deliberately fostered resentment and anger rather than love. The more he obsessed about his anger and resentment, the more it festered, leaving no room for love.

I think the answer to all these questions is yes. But it's as Job said and takes diligence and commitment and time.

Let's take a step back here. We aren't talking about him moving back in tomorrow, right? Of course you aren't feeling like you want to share your space. Why would you? I would imagine that after some amount of time of treating each other with kindness, respect and attention and doing the work, that might change. It may not, but you won't know until you try. So I wouldn't get hung up on not feeling it now. Rather I would ask, do you want to take a step towards getting to know your exh again as a man rather than merely as son's father?

I hope this helps. xoxoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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So nice to hear an update Mleigh.

What stands out to me, is that he keeps saying you seem so happy without him. This is something I am curious about. I wonder what the root of this is?

And it was interesting to see him freak out over the fact that maybe you were thinking d.

He hasn't moved on much either. He seems stuck.

Good to hear from you. You sound strong and happy.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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mleigh4 Offline OP
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ok Job. I read your post and really gave this some thought. Your question is not an easy one. I have built a wall between me and H to protect myself. Even in thought, I keep myself from thinking of reconciliation as it seems so far from reach at this point. So one night I was able to let my walls down briefly, to really let myself feel, and this is what I came up with:

Yes I love H. I don't know what this pull is that I have to save my marriage, but it's there....loyalty, values, faith...If I could work magic, I would want him to come to me saying he wants to try to fix this mess. I have never stopped wanting to try, I have just let those thoughts go as it's been 4 years since this all started.

If that magic never happens, I want us to go our separate ways peacefully and I hope for him to regret that choice for every lasting day he has.

I figure either way I will be just fine. Now, if I go by gut that is a whole different thing. I worry H is not good for me, but most of those reasons are mostly fixable. I also think of the gift I have been given, the freedom to find someone who I am much more compatible with.

There is no simple answer here, so I choose happiness and to live my life for me and S. Every day I wake up hopeful for a new day, and every night I give thanks for what I am grateful for. I have grown so much, not sure if H can or ever could truly fit in our world.


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Joined: Jan 2014
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Hi Bttrfly and Hawho. Bttrfly, the man I see today is no longer the man I was attracted to. I still feel a pull to him, but just like you said, I think every day that his choice continues to be do nothing. I am a fighter, he is a runner, not a good match. I have a very open mind though, so if I was to see positive changes in him, then sure, I would love to get to know him again.

HW, he is SO stuck! 4 years of stuck! I may be starting to see some signs of movement though, not sure if that or the holiday blues. We shall see.

So I threw the food for thought out there to H, asking about if love is a choice and if it's possible for feelings to grow back. No preaching to him, just honest questions with no expectations of a reply or response. I too have been thinking about this myself a great deal.

I put up my Christmas lights today and am in full Christmas force! S and I love this time of year. It's my weekend with S, H texted today asking to come visit with S. I told him sure. We ended up watching one of the recent Star Wars movies and munching on popcorn. The movie was great and we all enjoyed the time. H actually put his phone aside and we had his full attention for the entire 2 hour movie. That is progress! Lol

Stay strong everyone. The holidays tend to bring so much emotion and confusion from all sides. Wishing you all strength, love, hope and peace smile

M


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
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job Offline
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Your response was very honest and I'm glad you took some time to think about my question. I knew it wasn't going to be an easy one.

I know you love your h and you believe strongly in your marriage vows. I liked your response about going your separate ways peacefully. If you two opt to go your separate ways, he will think about you, the marriage and as a family for the rest of his life.

In my opinion, he's been testing the waters a bit and trying to convince himself that you are far happier w/o him in your life. Some of them say this quite often, especially once they return home and begin working on the new marriage. I'm not going to get your hopes up w/my next comment, but I can't help but wonder if he's been thinking about "home and what all it entails". Right now, he's still wearing rose colored glasses and doesn't think anything will change, so he's talking out loud and wanting to get an idea where your mind is at the moment.

We don't realize it, but they all have given us a gift of writing a new chapter in our loves, the freedom to do whatever it is we want to do, to meet new people, find new jobs and relocate. The gift of time works in mysterious ways...but the true key is in how we utilize that time. Mleigh, you've come such a long way and your h has a lot of catching up to do. You've changed in many ways and yet, he's still stuck back in high school and maybe trying to grow up...but his clock is still moving ever so slowly and it's going to be a while yet for him.

I think you are a very wise woman to choose happiness and to live your life for you and your son. You have so much to be proud of. As I mentioned above, you've become even stronger, more independent and self assured. You have a beautiful son who adores you and just think, when you smile, the world smiles w/you. The time will come when a decision will need to be made about your marriage, but I don't think it's today, tomorrow or next month. When the time is right to decide...you will know.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi guys,

I did some more talking with H and have reached a new place for me. I am keeping this quiet for the most part but know I can share with you guys and be understood.

Last weekend was S night with H. Within 1/2 hour of dropping S off, H texted that he was invited to a bbq and wondered if we could meet up to get Xmas trees, then have S come home with me. I had no plans other than watching movies alone, and knowing S would way rather be home with me, I agreed but let H know I had plans the next day, assuming he understood that meant he needs to have S his normal time on Sunday. Of course he did not understand that, and to make a long story short, S spent the day at a friend's house with everyone thinking H would pick him up but H. H of course blamed that on me, S and the friends mom.

I spent that day at the beach with my friend. It was such a beautiful December beach day in California!! At one point we were sitting watching the waves, talking about our futures, things we hope for, retirement....it became very clear to me that H no longer fits in my plans. I told friend, if I could continue to live my life the way I do, and no longer be married to H, I would do it in a heartbeat. And it hit me again, why can't I do that? I realised I do not want to spend the coming year in limbo land, with another ignored anniversary, Mothers Day and birthday. The future I want does not have that! I want to open a new door for myself, and that entails movement, one way or the other.

That night I picked up S and went home. It was an angry night of texting back and forth between H and I over the misunderstanding of the day. I got ugly in letting him know I am sick of his stupid choices and that he should remember that his missing out on time with S, his living in a s?1t hole and failed marriage are all a reflection of his selfish choices. It was exhausting and I am not proud of how angry I was or some of the things I said.

That night I searched for the reasons of why I am still so angry and all I can figure is it comes from being married to a man who does not want to be married to me. I think I can't help having some sort of expectation with that piece of paper.

The next night I took S to H and asked H for a few quick minutes of his time. I started by apologizing for getting so angry with him over the misunderstanding. He was defensive and explained his reasoning for thinking the way he did, he thought when I said I had plans, that those plans were with S. which I called out BS since I had let him know I was going over the hill for the day and that S was at his buddies for pick up.

I further explained where I believe the root of my anger comes from, being stuck in a marriage that is not moving one way or another, and that it's time to change that. I told him you have 2 choices, agree to counseling to see if we have any chance of saving our family, or proceeding to begin paperwork for a dissolution of our marriage.

He scoffed and said that was not fair to put him on the spot, especially when he was still angry at me. I said H, I am not putting you on the spot, you have had 4 years to figure this out. I told him a new year is around the corner and I will not live it like this, and I will not have another ignored anniversary, Mothers Day or birthday. I told him I will not continue to be married to a man who treats me or our marriage this way, and it may just be a piece of paper to him, but for me it's more than that and I am tired of feeling so angry at him.

He told me, based on things you said last night, you don't even like me. He said I seem way happier without him. He asked do you really believe you could have feelings for me again? He said he doesn't like how I treat S as a friend, I have no rules. I said, so is that your choice? He continued to spin in circles, blame blame blame, all about me.

I stayed quiet and just listened to the same old story. When he was done, I just said, so is that your choice? Why haven't you just filed by now if you so truly believe we could never work this out? Why would you put us all through this? He said he didn't want to rush things, that he was seeing what would happen and it's been up and down, up and down, and we always end up back here.

I told him, well that's not fair because I haven't been treating you like someone committed to working things out with me, I have been treating you like a man who no longer wants me, but making the best of it for our S. You have never said different, so that is unfair to me. He said we have talked about it, we were going to try dating, and nothing ever happens. I exclaimed, you never asked me out!!! All BS, so much BS. So I told him H, I am a fighter, I don't give up, and I don't know if there is anything left or enough to save us, but I would certainly give it a try. But if you don't want that, we go to option 2. He just couldn't say it, he just spins his excuses, so I finally cut him off and went on to our next step, which I had already figured we would do.

I told H we have 3 choices now. We sit down together, go over how we want to live, split up assets together. If we are able to do that, we can save tons of money by only paying someone to prepare and file the paperwork for us. Choice 2 is mediation and a few thousand dollars each. Choice 3 is attorneys, getting ugly and lots of money. Which do you want?

He said either way he is screwed. I said H, no one wins in divorce, we will all be screwed.

He said, what do we do about the house? I told him all I ask is for you to think of the house as an investment and allow S and I to live there until he completes high school. Then we can decide to buy out or sell and split the equity. He said that was no problem and already what he wanted for S. We discussed getting everything in writing to protect ourselves and agreed we should be able to do this ourselves.

He seemed sad, I still get the feeling he isn't sure what to do, but guys, do you understand how tired of his mixed messages and uncertainty I am? The man has no spine, drive, passion or motivation with something so important. This would go on for years. And I would continue to get angrier and angrier with him. In fact, this is how he is. In looking back, he has always been this way, just along for the ride, unable to make decisions unless it was to buy himself a toy of course. Marriage, my suggestion. Child, my suggestion. Buying house, my suggestion. Parties, vacations, decorating, going out with friends, my planning and suggestions. I think it's just the way he is.

My fellow male co-worker says he knows a lot of men who want there wives to tell them what to do, to make all the choices. He, along with a few other friends, have told me they believe H wants me to decide this and tell him what to do. They also think he believes I don't like him or want to be with him.

Whatever it is that H feels or thinks, the thing is, I don't want to be in a relationship where I make all the decisions. I want more than that from someone. I want to feel more equal, than like someone who carries the load. I already learned that does not work for me. And if after 4 years of talks and being around me, if H really believes I don't love him or want this to work, then something just isn't right with us, or I am doing something wrong, and it's best to end this. I don't want a future of wondering if he knows how much I love him!

So I am doing my research and gathering the paperwork to proceed with divorce. I don't know if this is the answer for me but I am going to move forward with it. If at anytime it starts feeling wrong, I will grant myself permission to step back and rethink it. I think we all know it's all on me, H will just be waiting for direction.

Thanks for listening. Our holidays are going on as planned and I am ready and looking forward to a nice time. Most of all, I am looking forward to a new year with changes. One way or a other, something has to change.

Wishing you all a happy holiday season.
M


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
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mleigh4 Offline OP
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Job, you hit it on the nose. I do agree that H believes I am better off without him. That may come from him knowing he won't change. He said himself, he can never be the man I want him to be. I am believing this may be for the best, for both of us. We both deserve to have someone who loves us for who we are. Everyone does, right?

It's too bad we have not been able to make the changes we both needed to see in each other. I don't like the dislike I feel for him, or feel from him. As against divorce as I am, I wonder if it sometimes is the best thing. frown


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
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Sit quietly and allow the answers to come to you. You shouldn't make important decisions when you are angry, hurt or just plain disappointed. You will know what to do after the holidays. The holidays are very emotionally charged for all of us and that's why you will know more about how you feel after the holidays. You will know when you are done and when to proceed forward w/a divorce or remain as you are.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,447
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mleigh4 Offline OP
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Hi Job. I honestly don't think this decision is coming from a moment of anger. I know in the past I had a bad habit of reacting to anger, but this has been in my thoughts for a while now.

I don't think H and I are good for each other. I think too much has happened and too much time has passed. I think I need to fully cut ties and let go to fully move on. He keeps me stuck with limbo, as hard as I fight that.

I have not come to this lightly. It's been a week since we talked, I cry every day and still mourn what we had and what's happening. I am not eating like normal and am already losing weight. I know this is going to be very painful and am not fooling myself to believe the grass is greener. I just don't want to live like this anymore and I think it's time to open up new possibilities for myself. By staying married I feel I am holding myself back by holding onto hope. I am not seeing that as a healthy choice.

I promise to let the holidays pass and take it slow. I promise not to rush into anything. I also promise to keep my eyes and ears open with H, because this would be the time to speak up if this isn't what he, or even myself, wants. But something has to change.


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
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