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Verum #2770862 12/09/17 03:39 PM
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Journaling.

Came home a little late on Friday, helped D16 make pizza for dinner. We all ate dinner. Then I watched Netflix, W was doing work. Went to bed early.

On Saturday, took D15 to Coding with Girls. Did errands while she was there. My W took D11 and her friend to the movies. After Coding with Girls, I went sailing to try out some new crew for our race boat. We didn't get much practice because there was little wind. We did see a layer of smoke from the fires in S. CA blowing up to the Central Coast. I went home about 4:30 and when entering my house, my W kinda of walked past me with little acknowledgement. A few minutes later when I walked into the room, I asked her, "How was the movie?" She then told me. Yes, I initiated the small talk, but I it set the mood for positive interactions for the remainder of the day. Later she came to find me and show me the photo she took of my three girls for the Christmas cards.

The W spent the day making Christmas cards and now cooking special dishes for Christmas parties.


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Verum #2771022 12/11/17 06:54 AM
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Sunday

We usually do crossfit at my house on Sunday, but this morning my W arranged for it to be at a friend's house because they bought a new place 5 minutes from us with 38 acres, vineyards, and many buildings on site. They were also planning brunch after crossfit. My W cooked the night before and went to bed early so she could wake up early to prepare. She did the finishing touches on her dish, and she loaded the weights into our minivan to take to the friend's house for crossfit. I made pancakes with D11. My W left and I was still at the house. I think she expected me to go too. Anyway when crossfit was over she texted me, "are you bring the kids here?" I replied, "yes, I can." I then got only D11 interested in going, D15 and D17 had no interest. I took her over, stayed for about 15 minutes and then left because I had my soccer game.

Played soccer and went to lunch with some of the other guys for pizza and beer. Came home and did some needed house maintenance on the shed, rain barrel, and put up Christmas lights. While putting up the Christmas lights my wife came home and asked me after my game. I told her. I didn't ask her where she was and she didn't offer. However, I could tell that she was at the house of the guy she had an EA on (without any on his part). I know because she had some wood for a desk she is making for her office, and she is using his woodworking equipment in his garage.

I made eggplant parmigiana and my neighbor came by to give D15 a present for her bday. I invited my neighbors for dinner tomorrow night and they accepted. My W will probably not be here for dinner because she likes to go to Brazilian Jijitsu every Monday.

My W was around, we all ate dinner together as a family. After dinner my W did some work on her computer, and then she gets up and tells me she is "going to help butcher a pig." Her guy friend hunts pigs and she was going to his place. I didn't say anything. When she returned later that night, I was in the MBR on the computer, and she came in, did her bathroom stuff, said she had to go to the dentist tomorrow and we discussed using the Payflex account.

She then said goodnight and left. I was typing this journal entry during this time.


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Verum #2771413 12/14/17 10:44 AM
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Journaling:

Monday: I was exercising on the side of the house and my W called out whether the eggplant parmigiana was for dinner. I told her yes. I also told her I invited our neighbors for dinner. Later she told me she was going to jijitsu because she was getting fat and missed exercising last Thursday (because she decided to go to a wine event instead). She did make us a nice salad. I had a nice dinner with my neighbors and daughters.

Tuesday: Did crossfit after work. After crossfit my W spent all the night doing her work. I read a book, did some chores, put up the Christmas lights on the house, and relaxed.

Wednesday: My W woke up at 5:25am and left early. She must go through MBR to enter the bathroom. I have no idea what she was doing since she starts work at 8:30am. At night, my W cooked for us. After dinner she was at the table and so was I. Both on computers doing some work. She then got up and said under her breath to me that she was to meet her GF about something. She was gone from 7:30pm to 8:30pm. At about 9pm, I went into the hot tub with D11 to see the meteor shower. We counted over 20 shooting stars. My W later joined us in the hot tub, and D15 and D17 came outside too but didn't come in the hot tub. My W got into the tub naked to the chagrin of D11, but this is not unusual for W who is very relaxed with nakedness.

Thursday: My W and I had appointment with therapist for D15 who has severe anxiety issues. I meet my W at the therapists at noon and we had a good discussion. Essentially D15 is shy, does have anxiety, but nothing to super concerned about. The reason D15 went to the therapist was she said something to my W about getting angry when in groups. I thought my W blew it out of proportion. After our meeting we went to a cafe for lunch. We discussed our children and then some friends. I can sense anger in my W's voice when I disagree with something about D15. Also, since we know each other so well there's always undercurrents in our conversation.

me: I think our daughters really need structure, whenever there's deviation they do have anxiety about it.
W: Not D15, that's only D11 that gets bent out of shape about schedule.

In hindsight, I know I was communicating to my W the message of "see what divorce will do to our children ..." and my W picked up on it and hence the anger.

Another example was my W discussing a friend who recently got married to a women who refuses to go out in public with him. The women got pregnant soon after the marriage. My W suggested maybe she was like a surrogate and they had a contract because our friend wants a child. I said, "a marriage is a contract" why do they need another? She got mad at that too.

She had to make a business call so I said goodbye got up and left. She left 25 feet behind me, I noticed and waited for her. She came over and hugged me goodbye, which I returned.

I plan on going out alone tonight to Tango dance lessons.

I don't intentionally try to trigger my W and I'm not overly concerned about these little things that came up. I have been thinking about my MR and I see myself giving her the option of either working on the MR or divorce. I can't stay with this in-between limbo much longer. I may, after Christmas, talk to her about our MR and discuss these options because Retrovaille is on Jan 18th. I'll reassess things later and decide. I suspect she will agree to go, reluctantly. I will tell her she should only go if she does the exercises and approaches it with an open mind. She will agree, but when we do it she may (most likely?) just go through the motions. I'm very pessimistic at this point.


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Verum #2771809 12/18/17 07:15 AM
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My W is acting as if we are a happily married couple as far as I know. She had invited me to two events this past weekend. I politely said no to a Saturday hike, but yes to a Christmas party on Saturday night. On Sunday the entire family drove to a friend's house for a 50th bday celebration.

For our Christmas cards I write a letter describing what we have all done for the year and include photos. My W is inserting my letter into every Christmas card, even the ones to her friends.

I don't know. Would you all call this cake eating? There is no OM.

I don't offer anything about what's going on in my life, I don't ask about hers, and I don't invite her to anything. We continue to live as roommates with her going to the guest room each night.

I'm still thinking of mentioning Retrouvaille to her after Christmas.


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Verum #2772239 12/21/17 07:42 AM
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I have been reading many threads here, and I have had time to think over my sitch and where I want to be. I have been in a MR where my W has been withholding love and not meeting my needs. I had mistakenly though I was transitioning to piecing a few years ago. However, I was doing all the work, and the W was just going along. Reading other's threads, I see that my W wasn't committed the way she would have needed to be.

Since she is not fulfilling my needs, and she is now even withholding sex, I ask myself what do I want? This is the closest I've ever been to being ambivalent between Recon and divorce. I think the problem for all of us who married young and have 20+ year MR, it is difficult to envision life without the W. I can now envision that life, and it is not so bad. In fact, I long for a MR with somebody who wants to be with me.

I was wondering earlier in my thread whether to ask my W to go to Retrouvaille. I now realize this would be a mistake because it is me again pushing for working on the MR. Instead I plan on saying to her following the holidays:

"I want to know where you think our relationship is going. For me, the current situation of being roommates is not fulfilling my needs from a marriage. Our marriage is essentially done. So if you want to remain married, I want to know what that looks like to you. What do you think you and me need to do in order to make our MR work? If I find what you propose acceptable, then we can try to start over. Otherwise, if you don't want to remain married, then I'm fine with that route too. We're either on a path to separation or reconciliation."

At this point I think its 50/50 which way she goes, and I'm OK with that. Instead of DB-ing and just waiting for her to initiate something, I'm willing to force the issue. After all, I've been doing this for years now.

However, if she wants to D, I don't plan on initiating the paperwork. I want her to. Does that make the above statement toothless?

Any thoughts on the above plan?


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Verum #2772240 12/21/17 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: FastCars
However, if she wants to D, I don't plan on initiating the paperwork. I want her to. Does that make the above statement toothless?

Any thoughts on the above plan?


FastCars,

Your wife has been f*cking around for five years. It's highly unlikely that any conversation with her is going to change things. The only real option you have is to get out and GAL and move on with your life. Take action; write down a list of things you'd really like to do and go do them.

doodler #2772244 12/21/17 08:29 AM
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Fastcars,

Our situations are quite similar. I can sympathize with how hard it is to make a final decision about divorce. It's extremely hard when your spouse doesn't initiate the divorce but shows no signs of wanting to work on the marriage after years pass by. Why do they do that? I guess having the benefits of a marriage while doing whatever they want works in their favor? Or they'd rather you file for divorce so they don't have to be the 'bad' person?

Your thread made me think more about my situation which I'll write about on my thread. In your case, I don't know, I'd probably say what you plan to say to your wife. Maybe that's wrong, but at this point what do you have to lose? By asking her those questions you at least know you tried one last time. You're at least being fair by giving her a chance to speak. If she still doesn't want to change but doesn't file for divorce then I guess you'd have to decide how long to wait before you file. Eventually you want to move on and be available to date again, right?

NicoleR #2772260 12/21/17 09:40 AM
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Doodler:

Thanks for replying. What I've been most successful at is GAL. In these 5 years, I've earned my pilot's license, I am active racing sailboats, a few months ago I joined an over-30 soccer league. In October, I took my 3 girls on vacation to Utah without the W. I do crossfit and life weights, I'm probably in the best physical shape of my life. I've become a more confident, outgoing, and active person.

Essentially, I'm doing everything I would do if I was suddenly divorced except dating. I think you are right about moving on with my life.

NicoleR:

Thanks for reading my sitch, and I agree I have nothing to lose. My guess is this would push it along faster. If she doesn't want to work on the MR, and doesn't initiate the D, then at some point I would have to.

In my W's case, I think there are several reasons she hasn't filed for D. She is staying in part for our children. Financially as a couple we are very comfortable and don't worry about money at all. Separated, my W realizes that would change given the high cost of California real estate. My W earned a graduate degree during this time, and that was one reason she didn't move on. She is not cheating on me, however she has many close friends and I would say she is getting a lot of emotional support and satisfaction out of these friendships. In summary, she has a good life and she knows it.


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Verum #2772371 12/22/17 08:55 AM
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I went to tango last evening for the second time. I recommend taking dance lessons as a great GAL activity. It's coed whereas my other GAL are male only. Also, for me it is a different circle of people to interact with. I came home from it at about 8:30pm in a good mood.

My W is better at detaching than me. She doesn't ask where I've been when I return.


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Verum #2772557 12/24/17 02:11 PM
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On Friday made pizza with my girls and watched "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies". My W was home and joined us for the movie and then went back to her work on the computer.

On Saturday, my W invited some girls who are the daughters of somebody she is desperately trying to make friends with. I was a little annoyed, but didn't show it because my W was spending more time with somebody else's daughters than our own. Because my W invited them without telling me, I mentioned to my W that I planned on going out to see Christmas lights and do some shopping with our girls at 6pm. My W said, "But we're going out to eat with friends." Our friends did ask me a week ago if we were available, but never followed up with me. My W and her are very close so they were talking but my W never told me. I told my W I would skip. So I went with girls and my W went out to eat with friends.

We got home just before W at about 9pm. W was home soon after. My dinner with my three girls was half the price my W paid for herself. My W did ask what I did, which was a first since she has pretty much not asked me what I've been doing. She also mentioned that where they went to eat is too expensive.

We share the bathroom, and now my W undresses in the shower section, which has a separate wall so I don't see her naked.

On Sunday we did crossfit in the morning. When exercising my W touched me.

Then I made lasagna for Christmas. My W cleaned the house and set the table. We are hosting about 20 people for Christmas tomorrow.

My W is making plans to go to a Christmas Eve mass tonight, and actually I'm going to go not to be with her, but because I want to. For each event, I ask myself what I want and that's how I act without worrying about W.


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