Chris, I feel for you dude. I have followed many posters on here but yours in particular because my BD was around the same time as yours (April 2016) and I have tried various techniques advocated on this site but to no avail.
My ex was a WAW with 3 young children and I recall you saying way back that your wife was full of $hit, i.e. you thought she was pretending things were fine when you knew they weren't, that she would eventually come around. You tried hard man, harder than I did. I couldn't bring myself to properly DB due to the anger (which I still have, largely because of all the things my children will be denied). I went no contact for about four months this summer after trying to be nice, understanding, validate, all that, but my anger over her leaving 3 young children always seemed to prevail and I put up resistance (we went to court over the sale of the house and some other stuff), that didn't work. But neither did going completely NC, made things worse actually. But I just couldn't bring myself to lovingly detach as they say on here because I always felt as though she didn't deserve it...to be friends with a view to nurturing a new relationship, I just felt she was getting off too easy, you know what I mean?
At the end of the day, having been separated for nearly 20 months, what I've come to realize is that if someone really wants out, no matter how unreasonable and unreal it may seem, there is nothing you can really do. People get divorced all the time and people, including family, just come to accept the new normal even if you don't. And the funny thing is, I don't think she has an OM, so part of me always thought she was waiting for me to change. In fact, she said as much once about a year ago when I reacted poorly to one particular situation.
We had an in-house separation for only about 3 months and I thought she would never move out and give up half her time with her children. She did. Then I thought when she signed a 1-year lease that if I showed consistent change (which I didn't as stated above) she would come around and at least try to work on the relationship. Nope. She bought a house. And so eventually you come to realize as someone on here once said that it's like your previous relationships where you broke up with someone and just knew you would never again take that person back. The difference of course being the children, which says a lot, how desperately she must have wanted out if she would rather give up half the time with her children than stay in the relationship (and my ex is very good mom, still is).
I told my ex shortly after BD that we would never have the kind of co-parenting relationship she envisioned if I didn't feel as though we had made some effort to work on keeping our family together. And so now, having said that, I struggle with trying to be friendly...if we could be friends, with small children involved, then we should still be together. I firmly believe this and give credit to guys like Gordie, yourself, and more recently Maika and Joseph9, for trying to validate when all you really want to say is "What the fuk are you thinking woman". Gordie in particular because he never got angry with his ex, was still having sex with his wife, did all the right things (and he has young children), and she was only having an EA...and she still ended up wanting a divorce. Gordie, I hope she wakes up, you deserve it more than most on here.
When they say on here not to be punitive, isn't that the same as saying show her what separation and divorce will look like. Don't do family stuff together, have two birthday parties for the kids, get a babysitter instead of first checking with your ex to see if she wants to watch the kids for a few hours. All of that. In the end, it is punitive, and is upsetting to your ex, but showing them what separation and divorce will look like doesn't work either in my experience. Just gets them to dig in further if nothing else.
So the alternative is to let them cake eat but that angered me because why should she have the family life when she walked away from her family?
This is what I really struggle with. And I know the DB principles say that once you truly detach you won't care anymore and perhaps become emotionally mature and be a model co-parent but part of me thinks I will forever be angry with my ex even if I'm fully detached. And I think I might be there, I don't think of my ex all that much and hardly ever see her these past few months except at the odd exchange, but still somehow think, notwithstanding it will be two years in April, that she will never be truly happy because she doesn't have a family on a full-time basis (so maybe this means I'm not truly detached).
If your wife and mine decided after dating a few men that perhaps it is worth another try, how would you respond after two years apart, or longer? There was no affair to overcome in my sitch but lots of other damage has been done and you have to wonder if you could ever forgive her for putting the family through what she did. My children miss their mother terribly when they are with me and I expect the same applies for me when with their mom. Of course, I don't tell her this, she knows, and one part of DB I have maintained throughout is not to say anything to her to make her feel guilty (but doing what I can to make sure she misses out on certain events with the children). That I'm now sure is not working because she has repeatedly said I'm still trying to control her, which was her biggest complaint during the relationship and at BD.
Somewhat amazingly, we have never had a relationship discussion since BD and did not try counseling. When I told her shortly after BD that I needed to feel as though we made some effort if we were going to have any kind of relationship going forward, she did agree to try counseling but said it was only for communication reasons and that she felt our problems were irreparable. So with that condition, and having learned about 180's on this site, I decided against counseling because she was fully expecting me to participate enthusiastically and I thought perhaps if I didn't agree she might think I was also done and willing to move on, which would give her pause for thought. Again, that didn't happen and perhaps that particular 180 was a misstep.
What I really struggle is how she has treated this to some extent as she might a boyfriend break-up, but of course it's not, there are three small children to consider. At BD, my kids were 5, 2 and unbelievably, 4 months old. The ages of my children have contributed to my belief that she would eventually come around, but she remains resolute. I think relationship talks are too painful for the WAW and so avoided at all costs.
All of this to say that I wholeheartedly agree with the premise on this site that you can't control what your ex does. It's not so much their journey but rather, them having moved on. I also think that although the advice on here is to be patient (marathon not a sprint), the best chance you have at reconciliation is within the first 6 months, because once you get into our domain (approaching 2 years), the new normal transitions into life. Things like getting together for Christmas morning (which we did last year) fall away and this year I fully expect I won't get an invite to her house as she did last year at the (former) family home. I have never stepped inside her new home, just at the doorway to pick up the kids once or twice. Again, that's just me being purposely indifferent. She did invite me over once after we ran into each other this past summer, but I was in full no contact mode at the time and declined her invitation. In part because of the advice on here, thought it was probably a temperature check of sorts or perhaps her trying to be "friends" and wanting to show me her new house (both of which I have no interest in). I also thought because I hadn't returned any of her text messages for a couple months, it was the whole pursuit thing and that she would back off again if I showed interest in spending time with her. Again, maybe that was another misstep but I do know from having one prior in-house separation that she is likely to send a much stronger signal if she's thinking about reconciliation.
But to date, there has been no real relationship discussion other than during some angry phases where she mentions things like, don't be surprised when I say you haven't changed or more recently, that we had problems during the relationship and I wish it had worked out, but it didn't.
So I'm now dating, not sure if she is, she has never mentioned anyone. At the end of the day, it takes two to make it work and she seems content with her new life (of course, she would never admit to how difficult it is being a single mom). I believe our ex wives are hell bent on showing us that they can make it without us, particularly financially. My ex has said to me a couple times during an angry phase (for the first year we cycled between getting along and having fights over things that arose as we both adjusted to our new situations) that she was "happy". I resisted taking the bait and saying the only person that seems to care if ex-wife is happy is ex-wife. Plus, I don't believe her, as you said, she is full of $hit...but still with no signs of coming around.
I have followed many of the sitches on this site but decided against putting my own on here (although I kind of have with this post). Anyway, good luck to you and the others. Hopefully, you are one of the exceptions and can put Humpty Dumpty back together again.
Oh man! Thank you for posting that. I feel like I am reading my sitch, minus having a new baby just after BD.
You got it so right about what I want to say to my W - What the F%(K are you thinking???? Instead I am trying to pull back and give her tons of space and stay friendly, but not be her friend.
I have the similar issue about anger - how it's impacted the kids and will impact them for their life. I didn't sign up to be a part-time parent and the fact that I don't know what's going on for half their life is something I am having a hard time accepting. I know they miss me when they're with her and vice versa.
The 180s and the other DB techniques are good in the sense that they allow the LBS to discover themselves and not look weak and pathetic in front of the WW. But, you don't always know if they are working and when you're NC, it's even harder to gauge. But, the opposite of NC also doesn't work and so you're left between a boulder and a sledgehammer.
I think the only thing that I have come to realize is that I need to be my authentic self and figure out my depression issues. I have zero idea or hope that anything I do will bring her back to even try and recon - not saying if recon would restore the MR, which is a whole another ballgame. She hasn't even shown up for practice, forget the game, so it's pointless to worry about if we'll be able to rush the last five yards with seconds away from the game whistle.
I guess I am still bitter about the fact that I wasn't even given a chance. Everything I had suggested after BD was rejected and I feel like I was just discarded and disposed of.
And like you I don't think there is an OM, yet. I believe there was some EA stuff in the beginning before and around BD, but didn't last. I have no idea if there is someone in her life or not and I have no way of getting intel on that short of hiring a PI - which I am not going to waste money on.
I am sorry to hear that your W is still resolute in her decision. My W also suggested counseling for improving communications which reeked of 'divorce management' and so I didn't take her up on that offer.
How is dating life? You're 20 months out and do you feel like you're in a place where you can do it? Also, have you or her filed for D?
Thanks again for your post. I felt really sad reading it and I could totally feel all your emotions as you described them.
I'm scared of my W and there's no denying it. Clearly I need more nice guy syndrome therapy.
My son has basketball practice on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Normally he's with his mom on Tuesdays but he asked me to come to his practice tonight. Of course I said ok, but now I'm quaking in my boots trying to craft the perfect txt to my W to tell her that I'll be coming.
What the eff am I so afraid of? Perhaps she'll be mad or frustrated with me. But who cares right? My son asked me to come and it's a public place...
OK, just sent it. We'll see what happens next.
M46 W48 M11 T14 S11 D8 BD: 2016/05/27 In-home separation: 2016/11/23 Nesting: 2017/06/11 W moves out: 2018/01/07 W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12 I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
Why text her at all? In most states, you have a legal right to attend any and all athletic and/or school events, irrespective of whether it's "your day" or not with the children.
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
We're on good terms right now. And we explicitly had a discussion that she would take him on Tuesdays and I would take him on Thursdays. If it were a game there wouldn't be an issue, but it's just practice. So the txt is just a respectful courtesy.
M46 W48 M11 T14 S11 D8 BD: 2016/05/27 In-home separation: 2016/11/23 Nesting: 2017/06/11 W moves out: 2018/01/07 W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12 I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
Then no reason at all to sweat the text or its wording. Just "S8 asked me to come to his practice, and my schedule's free, so see you then."
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
We're on good terms right now. And we explicitly had a discussion that she would take him on Tuesdays and I would take him on Thursdays. If it were a game there wouldn't be an issue, but it's just practice. So the txt is just a respectful courtesy.
Just curious why you agreed to go. I mean, I get that you CAN. And I certainly understand that your S asked you to....But I certainly dont do everything my kids ask of me. Curious how you would feel about her attending on Thursdays?
I'd be thrilled if she came on Thursdays. I'm happy whenever she shows support for our family unit, even if we're not intact anymore.
M46 W48 M11 T14 S11 D8 BD: 2016/05/27 In-home separation: 2016/11/23 Nesting: 2017/06/11 W moves out: 2018/01/07 W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12 I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
Chris, I attend everyone of D's basketball or soccer practices and their games no matter if it my week or not. My W and I also let each other know if we won't make it so we can let our children know if they ask. There have been several times where they have asked me if mommy is coming and it is nice to be able to give them an answer.
