25yearsMLC 10 Later I FILE D part 8

[25yearsmlc]

25, this is probably nothing, but personally, at this point, I'd be really cautious of anyone who uses the L word in any shape or form.

I understand your concern, but it was carefully used, and there was a context. I had just made him laugh really hard. So it does not trigger the same reaction in me that it would normally.

But I know what you mean. Lately I tend to say things like "I really care for" and "I am drawn to", when talking to him.

Because saying "i sure like you!" sounds like I'm in 6th grade. (Or what I'd say if I were about to break up. "I like you as a friend, but...."


Saying "I love you" at this point, even when parts of me feel it, - makes me think,

how can REAL love be formed so fast? I don't know. Seems more like the "falling in love" phase which is not something I trust much.

(Since I think I believe in choice & chemistry & time.)

H & I said the we were in love a few months in, (I was raised to make sure the guy says it first or he'll be scared off, but i felt it and meant it.)
And it kept growing for years and years...

for me, words are chosen carefully & carry weight.

So I hear you, but so far, so good.

FWIW, I care for him & I want to get to know him & then see where it goes. I think I could love him

I'm also the 1st woman he's dated after a 4 year sep, & a 28 year m.

I've had some dates, but he's the first "boyfriend" I'll have had after 13 months of a sep & a 35 year m.

So We are by definition - I guess - "rebounds."

But If i wait 5 years and THEN date, won't the first guy also be my "rebound"?

[25yearsmlc]

25,

Wow, it's awesome to see you getting some love. You deserve to be appreciated. I hope that trip to Paris happen. You will love it. Do you have dance shoes already? Also, get some nice dresses. I know you probably already have plenty. Enjoy your turkey day.

Thanks JoeJoe,

Tell you the truth, I need some DANCING dresses b/c I thnk the ballroom thing kind of requires them. So they flare out on spins? But I've heard that pants are good at first so you learn the steps, etc


Until h and I work out our finances (EYE ROLL & DEEP BREATH) I'm taking all spending a lot more slowly.

You know I had a talk with d20 last night about all this - M and our R.

I told her "I'll introduce you to M if the time comes when he's a "real boyfriend" but you know, maybe M & I are like plane crash passengers (dealign with Gross Div Crap) at the moment. We are sort of holding hands hoping we land safely and maybe

maybe that is all this is - us finding comfort in each other through this terrible ordeal."

D20 said "So what? That's Good! If that's the least this is, that you get to heal some and remember who are you as a woman and feel love from a normal guy, what's wrong with that?"

Amen child, amen.

PS

Joejoe yeah, I would like a trip to Paris for sure...(NOT USING M, just saying)

- it's one of those things H promised - b/c my junior year of college was supposed to be in France.

But I got married instead...and though we've been to Europe several times, (& I'm grateful for that)

but somehow Paris was never a priority to h...so we did not go.

You know what? Here is my VOW to ME.

I will go to Paris (by myself or with a friend or relative or lover)

within 18 months of TODAY. (Okay we'll say by Memorial Day 2019, at the latest).

There folks. Hold me to this^^^.

It's a 25 bucket list item, and I'm not waiting till I'm in a wheelchair to see Paris.

((( )))


PS

sometimes I wonder if maybe those seizures I had 13 months ago, were a good thing. They sukked at the time - I was TERRIFIED and H was an embarrassing no show

and the seizures led to life altering conditions and I take pills now that are weird and I take a pill BECAUSE of a side effect of a pill.

But those seizure sure did lead to massive changes in my life, and upheaval and painful growth and many new directions.

But the directions are MINE now.

[joejoe1]

25,

I will hold you to Paris. Start looking for tickets now. Not to buy one, but what airline has the best prices. If you buy your ticket between 2 am and 4 am you can get really great prices.

When you get to Paris get a few pastries for me.

Maybe you should start with pants. Then hit the dance floor with a beautiful dress after you get your steps down.

If this man is willing to help you land you should let him. We all need a steady runway to land on and we don't get that, the next best thing is a person who can catch us.

[25yearsmlc]

JoeJoe


(((thank you)))

[25yearsmlc]

Look at you! Live it up, girl. You sound pretty crazy over M. I am glad you are still dating otherwise though. Take it slow, like you always tell me.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Thanks Ginger. Yeah, definitely not committing to an exclusive thing anytime soon. I hear you.

M blew 2 tires out last night while I was driving behind him. Scared me and made him mad (big bucks$$) but he did not lose his %h1t, so that was cool.

And I waited 30 minutes before I said "but the upside of this" (about being alive and all....) b/c I did not want to minimize the hassle factor and cost for him.

OKAY I was told by my T to add to my List of

"Must haves" in my men, going forward (or in "The Man") - in no order

1) smarts (& not a weirdo about me being smart)

2) a good heart (some form of belief in God or karma or SOMETHING beyond this world, i.e. a moral compass of a spiritual nature. I'm Christian and most comfortable with that but it's a belief system and spiritually centered life I'm most seeking);


and 3) some sparks.

M is weirdly smart, which I like. Has a good kind heart and is spiritual.

I'm attracted to all that, but really hope the sparks grow. He's not my physical type, usually.

The dance lessons will achieve something, - at least I'll be better at ballroom dancing.
Or chemistry will grow.

H was a strong lead, maybe too strong. Interesting metaphors...and H and I had a lot of sparks and for a very long time.


Dang maybe I'm the one stopping the sparks with M...

b/c M has a salt/pepper beard and looks like a professor AND yes he looks older than me? (OMG could I be this vain?? Is this vanity?)

My sister said "he's not what I was expecting, but he seems smart and kind..."

and my older brother said "he's not your (as in 25) usual type, but give him a chance. He's pretty cerebral and a good guy."

Okay enough paralysis by analysis and time to enjoy.

DIVORCE UPDATE

(sort of)

So the counter offers my lawyers made (based on, btw, the LAW and REALITY)

will probably be rejected b/c, you know, that's my h.

So that stinks but I'm telling you, when i look at the formulas and hear the people in my divorce class in a state that is Not considered as fair as CA, all and I mean ALL of them are getting support for far longer and in higher %. I am NOT asking for much, good grief! It was a 35 year marriage.

And h has already spent one of the 5 years of support I wanted, ON LAWYERS

(could've spent it on the lawyer who gave birth to his kids...= THIS GIRL!)

Oh well....

Have 2 new job interviews leading from my first big one a week or so ago

I need money- cash flow problem looms AND right before Christmas.

OMG I never borrowed money before. It changes the relationship into a weird thing so if I go get my hair done, I worry my sister will mind b/c, I owe her money...

you know?

Anyhow, that's it for now.

And yes I will add to the "Must have in The Man list!"

Guys, from what my T says, we should all be doing this.

Just saying...

[25yearsmlc]

Hi

3 long updates

on the "divorce siege" approach, gotta admit, h's tactics sure do annoy. He has money in the bank - somehow-- but not me! Nope, I'm broke...How is that since we are both "unemployed and living on a pension?? " Granted, he has a "roomate"....

I inadvertently found more assets of his/ours and it's always like a fresh wound to discover. I hate it. True backslides...but in 60+<days it SHOULD be mostly over - at least this chunk.
Oh it was a 6 figure asset, to be clear. And yet he still fights paying spousal support for 5 years...

though his offer number has gone up to an embarrassing insulting amount, from....zero.

Progress?? (from Dumb & Dumber -) "So you're saying there's a chance????"


Can't wait for it to be over. Then He can be a dot on my horizon.

S31 visited my inlaws. I WANTED to ask wtf they thought and why they didn't reach out and how could they believe h's narrative (and what IS his narrative??) Why didn't they help d20? But s31 told them none of this...(I kind of want to send a Christmas card telling them how I'm dong AND praising s31 for being such a help GIVEN what happened to the tuition cut off and assault/arrest last summer and how "hard a time she's been having. Great brother, great son and great young man. So proud of him."

Too obvious??? [censored]...

ANYHOW- INSTEAD

I said only that I miss them (& asked about their health) and that I regret losing them to what I know are false character assassinations. And God only knows what else...(is it the extrovert in me that simply does not "get" how huge things go unsaid for decades or forever so there's never any closure??)

S31 said "mom, you can spend the rest of your life knowing that some people won't ever realize what a monster h has been - ever - or you can move on knowing the truth."

Obviously son is right. Obviously. I get it...and yet I still find myself looking in that rear view mirror thinking "but wait, I was a damn good wife and he STILL did this $h1t to ME?? Am I repressing? And what's with his lousy r's with the kids??"

And on and on and on.



INSTEAD I have to reframe and reframe and reframe my sense of rejection

and "what I DID" to "make h mistreat/leave me/our family" and remember to

see it as HIS problem and say "Goodbye to lunacy" and mean it and keep meaning it (all of which I've heard and written 29736 times here!)

*Combine this ^^^reframing ("this is not about me, or whatever was about me is already being worked on so, so it is not a problem now)

*with turning it over to God (I've not done this as much to be honest - and I CAN do that more and better)

and if you can - and *YES YOU CAN - replace the negative with positive.


New hobbies, new job GAL --- PMA (DB 101, seriously)

You don't "need a man" for this new positive input. But we DO need to drop or eliminate or great reduce seeing as much of the negative folks in our lives for now, truly they will suck out our energy for a struggling to be happy soul)

, AND you can have friends whom you inform "hey, I always believed maybe words of affirmation were Not my love language IN THE PAST - but they are now. And I could use some."

**As my awesome T says, "it's fine to be needy at times. To the people you love and know, YES go express those needs of yours."

Heck yes, lately I need to have validation about my appearance. I'm 57 so, Am I taking care of myself enough? Do I seem too irritable? Am I getting more patient? AM I STILL DESIRABLE??


These ^^ are hard questions to feel needy about, so vulnerable and weak sounding to us,

but it sukks more to wonder, I think. OR to seek out answers in unhealthy ways...

Folks, let's face it

When you get a gut punch & smack in the face enough, and those wounds tell you that you're ugly/stupid/fat/ or purple in color

you do need someone to say "Um, nope. You are just as attractive/smart, not fat and NOT purple, as ever. Maybe more so."

And needing to lose 20/200 lbs, IS ALLOWED...

Do YOU wanna lose it? Do it b/c you want to feel comfortable naked with a partner you care about OR b/c you will feels healthier, or you will be the fun aunt/grandma

or bc you want to wear your best clothes, or your knee and back WILL feel better or b/c you just feel like proving you can

not b/c some Schmoopie OW is skinny. ("Hey, I can lose 20 lbs, but she can't gain 20 IQ points OR get a character transplant...just saying"...)


**And then we transition IN TIME to do this "self esteem rebuilding) for ourselves b/c our self esteem at its' root, comes from within.

But with the hits we took, we are allowed to ask for help from loved ones, getting back on our feet. Not moping to them, but telling them what we need!

We must always have people in our lives who do give us some love in OUR love languages. Honestly, if they aren't, then we probably need new people in our lives.


((( )))

[Cadet]

AM I STILL DESIRABLE??

YES

[25yearsmlc]

part 2



Update on dating...specifically M

I know he has the smarts and a good heart, but I was wondering if sparks would happen. He has a runner's body and that's not usually my type. I go for men who look
like weight lifters. AND the whole vanity thing nagged at me.(MY vanity, specifically)

I think sparks are beginning to start. M seemed comfortable at a party and then the next night with my sisters and they liked him rather a lot. That means something to me.

He danced with my sister and she said he was "pretty good" - (she also said, "Just b/c h was truly a gifted dancer, - and he was- doesn't mean M would not be a better partner and M is a 'good enough dancer."

(FTR, PEOPLE JUST SO YOU KNOW

H and I fell in love on the dance floor and there were sparks from the get go. First 10 dates we went dancing and dang it, he knows what he's doing.
never mind all this^^ it's not a biggie because

I guess there WILL be things we miss in our former spouses, maybe always.
At least in long term m's we must accept that at some levels we were well suited. And that won't just go away, it will probably fade as we see the other parts that were NOT so well suited and see good/great things in new people we meet.

Missing some things in our former spouse after the divorce dust settles I mean,

we probably never ever should have been together if we literally miss nothing about them. And with a marriage as long as ours, of course there are things in which we were quite well suited.

But my point here is that my r with M is deepening. Despite missing some elements of the familiar, which is normal, I'm told.

We are still cautious and I know we are waiting for more finality in his mediation and divorce, before being intimate. (Reconciliation is not a possibility for him, I checked a bunch).

Still he wants to to wait till it's final in January (they have been sep for 4 years and he has not dated at all).

I am not in the same mindset for ME - but I accept his for him.

But we talk for LONG periods each night. Not shallow stuff, though we touch on it all.

He works in this area and commutes temporarily for work. He moves here firmly, in late December or early Jan.

So Last weekend he rented a hotel room 100 yards from mine for his work, and we spent a lot of time other. Good, right? EXCEPT I didn't expect it! What??

It felt like pressure for me and I wanted my privacy and almost FOR A MINUTE wondered WTH was going on. Did he forget to tell me that we were spending the whole weekend together? (Plus to be blunt, my condo was a wreck. I just had 2 of MY kids visiting. Trust me, a wreck!)

WE had a party to go to on Black Friday (Divorcecare group that does not know we are semi dating ) and on the way, he blew 2 tires on the right side and I was driving behind him.

He was upset about losing 2 tires AND rims and needing a tow truck and we were on a ramp, the police came to get him moved faster b/c our location was dangerous (really I probably saved his life by blinking behind him and all ).

and M did not lose his $h1t. He was upset for sure, but I also STFU and I did not minimize it or try to make him see the upside . Well, for awhile...

(from where I was driving behind him, it looked like he was hurt and so I was thrilled he wasn't dead. From MY perspective he was lucky as he11.)

So I asked him if I could wait 30 minutes before I mention my "silver lining" stuff

and he could vent more now, if needed. But he didn't. I mean maybe 3-5 minutes of calmly discerning the costs. So the car got towed, and I drove him. A small lesson in how life might be and believe me, I was noticing.

Next night he met my siblings and blended well. He made an effort to push himself out of his comfort zone as an introvert into a room of extroverts and HE DANCED with my sister.

I could not watch PARTLY b/c I knew I'd compare him to h (I & my sisters must concede, H is probably among the best dancers I've ever known)

and partly b/c I was afraid ---and that bothered me about ME.

The good news is I felt my attraction to M growing as I heard & saw him interacting.

When he dropped me off (he got a rental car big enough to take my dog to the party - b/c I CAN BRING MY DOG, dang it) and that touched me.

I thought about inviting him into my condo when he dropped me off b/c it felt - tempting, but I didn't. (Almost did not shave my legs as my back up "birth control" method----when you KNOW you will need extra discipline for saying "not yet" on a big night).

But to be frank, as much as he seemed happy with intense hugging and kissing, I later asked him if he was bummed out that we parted ways that night.

He said while he wanted to go up, he wanted to keep his promise. He's been faithful 28 years, what's another month?


(THE STINKING HOLIDAY SEASON, THAT'S WHAT!!...okay I'm just saying...Plus remember my last year's NYE resolution to have sex this calendar year so, it's pushing it. )

Not to mention my own h living with OW for MANY months and cheating and blah blah blah the rest.

I know it's not a contest but I'll be darned if I wait around for my h to control any more of my life than he already has. H flaunts his affair and I'm waiting for a guy who has been sep for 4 years...?? OH THE IRONY

[25yearsmlc]

part 3


OH btw, one thing M disclosed about his role in his marital demise was that he used to hide things he believed his xw would over react to, and he gave examples of her over reactions.

For purposes of this discussion, I'll give him the point that she over reacted (assuming everything he says is true). That was not my focus of course.

I then said "but M, my h did that it really is a trigger. When you you hide things that are part of the truth needed by both, it is lying by omission, which is a cowardly form of lying."

Before I could say more, he agreed...

I went on b/c I feel so strongly about this

"And though I really understand your perspective THEN, just so you know, it's a deal breaker for me. Here is why -

it erodes my confidence in the r,

which makes me withhold emotions, love and probably physical expression of that b/c I won't feel safe

which means I become LESS loving or less showing of it, and then it's just a matter of time before we are circling the drain. You might even think it proves that I over reacted and then hide more, or outright lie more, and then it all goes downward..."

When it comes to asking for permission or forgiveness, for ME, 25, permission wins hands down. Which I said in my m many times.

I rarely said "NO WAY" to h when he asked for something authentically.
as in telling the whole truth about why something mattered a lot to him. Even if it was "a fun thing I've wanted a long time and here's how I think we can afford or do it."

Then we could talk about how we could make it happen. I maybe said "no" a few times early in the m but honestly, my reasons were freaking mature. Like "but the kids need..." iThen he'd act as if HE was making a sacrifice. I don't recall ever thinking "H should not get X b/c then I, 25 won't." I did not keep score. I never said no to what H wanted for something I wanted. And you know, I'm NOT proud of that. Where the hell was I in that? A piece of furniture being moved overtime we got reassigned?

But damn, sometimes h's demands were just out of whack. Buy an $11k ATV b/c he really wanted one (main reason was just that) OH and it "would really hunt well"

which = he really wanted one b/c HE likes hunting. He ended up buying himself one anyhow, ON our anniversary, and that just hurt my feelings. It embarrassed me And he did it without any involvement like the other MANY toys.

What a fool b/c it hurt our m so much and the truth is, with the exception of the ATV, which I'd have agreed to within a few months,

ALL the other toys (snow mobile, boat, trailer for the boat, paving our driveway without notice to me) I've have enjoyed getting WITH HIM. Instead it was just stuck in my face as a fait accompli.So much harder to enjoy those "fun toys" when they're just showing up for HIM.

I told M all this^^ to explain my buttons/deal breakers. How the dribbling out of info killed me.

And I promised not to lecture or over react as best I can, to a request for something.

"But please don't make me drag out dribbles of information or WONDER "is that all??"

I don't want that "itchy sweater feeling again"

and I'd rather be alone than wish I was,

or think "oh God, I am with another liar"

I know it was not easy for M to disclose or for me to hear. And I disclosed a LOT of shameful secrets of mine I've never told another man other than h (who threw it in my face last year, 20 years later AND in a new weird version).

And yet, here we are, M and I - thinking we might still find each other quite interesting and valuable.

I so wish he was not the first guy I've "really" dated since H.

Maybe we are just 2 people comforting each other on the plane crash of divorce.

and that's not a bad thing. It's a good thing.

And maybe we are more. And that's a great thing.

M has not been in my condo and I have not been in his hotel (he officially moves here in 3 weeks but will still travel a lot for the next 3 months).

When he assembles my media tower this weekend, THEN he'll be in my space and that's NOT necessarily going to be THE TEST, but it will be one of them.

I don't want him to break his promise to himself, but I also don't want ME to be held to it.

Know what I mean?

I have been asked out by other men and the option is there. Which means I'm free to say "yes/no thanks". (There is no exclusivity promise with M yet. I'm just not sure I can do the "stella gets her groove back" casual sex thing. For one thing, how do you get rid of the guy later and what if he stinks in bed? I could start laughing, and then I'd need the STD tests all over again. (OH my tests are negative and I do want to laminate and bedazzle the card declaring it so).

CONFESSION sort of - M's son is adopted and they're close. Great! But that means his wife was never pregnant...

So I mentioned that my kids were born of me, so I'm a woman with some stretch marks.
You know, the whole "I'm woman, hear me roar..."


I don't want to feel self conscious about that b/c I've lost weight and though I may always want a tummy tuck (trying to decide if that is MY desire or negatives from h)

I also want to feel comfortable as i am -- desired as I am,

(which always makes me feel more amorous, I swear.)

I mean what turns us OFF more than hearing a negative comment about our bodies/looks from a parter? Not much! Total libido killer buzz kill)

M said he thinks I look like a woman who had children, is supposed to look.

The way he said it, was the right way.

So, though I really wish I'd met him a year or two from now, I'm just going with the flow for now.

thanks for listening.

[Jim1234]

Thanks for the update. You sound like you're doing pretty well.

My $.02... It seems like you are taking this thing with M way too seriously. It's great that you get along, but you seem to be moving too fast in every way but sex. I fear you are getting too emotionally wrapped up in him too quickly.