Fighting my way out of the dark - Part 6

[sandi2]

Our conversations lately go like this: STBXW approaches me with a financial or child-related issue to discuss. It will sometimes start with something like "Look, I know you are angry with me and don't want to talk to me, but we need to discuss X." We make a small amount of progress, but she invariably injects an insult, accusation, or snide remark. This is where she comes up against my boundary, and I end the conversation.

When she approaches you with an issue, tell her up front that you are willing to discuss it as long as she can keep it polite. If she starts insulting you, then you end it.

[Holding]

Thanks J9, Acc, and Sandi. I'll get to your posts in my next post. Something I've got to get to first...

STBXW and I had an interesting convo last night.

We had a discussion in her room about several things. It started out about finances (which I ended because it wasn't really getting us anywhere). We talked about splitting time with the boys for Thanksgiving week. We talked about how our convos haven't been productive lately. She told me I'm arrogant, and she hoped I'd be able to work on that. She admitted that she needs to work on not making negative statements.

She talked about how we need to get mediation scheduled soon, because she is miserable living in the house with me. And this led her to talk about how she thinks I hate her.

I told her I didn't hate her any more. She asked what made me stop. I said it wasn't really anything, it was just a stage I had to go through. She told me she never intended to hate me, and she started to cry when she said this. She realized she'd been a horrible wife. I asked her if she hated me and she said no. (Which made no sense considering what she'd just said). She told me she hoped that I'd be able to forgive her one day, since I've been going to Divorce Care and seeing an IC. She said she's forgiven me for some things but not everything (no specifics). I said I'm sure I'll get there one day.

The conversation was over and I walked out of the room. We walked into the living room where the kids were. She asked me if she could have a hug. I was surprised and said, "Well, I guess, if you want one." We hugged for a moment. Without realizing it, I found myself rubbing her back gently. She whispered in my ear "I'm sorry. Do you think you'll ever be able to forgive me?" I said, "I'm going to need time." She said, "Yeah, me too." Then the hug was over.

Impression #1: This felt like a weird kind of closure. I was almost in a happy mood after that for some reason.

Impression #2: I suspect she's up to something. Maybe she's seen the financial info my L sent over to her L, and she realizes how the 50/50 split will be a lot different from what she expected.

[Holding]

"Look, I know you are angry with me and don't want to talk to me, but we need to discuss X."

Why do you think she feels that way? Do you think this is something that she could get past through your actions? Maybe to do so would force you to maybe reconcile some of your own hurt, anger, etc.? If you were ever to R wouldn't those issues have to be resolved any way?

I'm not sure what you're asking. Can you clarify? She assumes I'm angry (and I hate her) because I don't talk to her and seem to be avoiding her. I am still angry, but I don't hate her any more. Are you saying I should act as if I'm not angry, and try to also resolve my anger?

Knowing she is toxic, is there anything you could do differently to help led her through this crisis? I am not talking about your MR and R/D discussions but leading her through this communication gap between you two so that when you communicate it can be more productive? Or even be a better life at home until your S/D for your children? Is there a way you could "step up" and make a difference?

I'd like to be able to. The challenge is to do it in a way that she doesn't construe as condescending. I don't think I'm being condescending, I'm just discussing things very matter-of-factly and in a logical, non-emotional way.

I'm not sure why you're being guarded from a legal perspective. You could secretly audio record 100% of what you say to each other and it really wouldn't matter a bit unless you were talking about doing things that were illegal or threatening to hurt yourselves, each other, or the kids, and even in that scenario the lawyers would need to filter it.
...
I wouldn't worry too much about trying to incriminate each other by recording your arguments, it won't count for anything in the final analysis and will just put both of you on edge.

Thanks. I guess I need to stop worrying about every little thing hurting my chances in the D. I do have to be open to the possibility that we'll go to trial. It does stress me out a lot, since there's so much riding on it.

When she approaches you with an issue, tell her up front that you are willing to discuss it as long as she can keep it polite. If she starts insulting you, then you end it.

I'll try to remember that approach. It's tricky because she starts giving me attitude (tone of voice, faces) without really insulting me. Where to draw the line gets tricky. But I think I need to be sure to call her out when any of her behavior is hurting the conversation.

[joejoe1]

Holding,

I think you are right to have your guard from your past experiences. But this time try to look at it from an optimistic side. Expect the worst, hope for the best.

What if she is truly being sorry, you dont want to ruin that.

Live in this moment and enjoy it. I think she is probably feeling really bad for hurting you. That don't mean she wants to save the M. But she feels really horrible right now. Maube she got convicted about how she was treating you.

Tomorrow morning tell your wife Good Morning with a smile. Be genuine, if you be genuine, try your hardest to be. Don't pursue. It's something neighbors tell each other the time and they smile doing it.

If she asks you to do something for her, try saying I dont mind, instead of, "well I guess if you want one". If you don't want to donit say no. Bit I think you wanted to hug as well. The NGS makes us say well if you want. A man says, what he truly feels. Yes, I mind receiving a hug.

Take charge, that's whats been lacking from you in the M. Take those openings when they present themselves.

[joejoe1]

Corrections,

"Your guard up"
"If you cant be ginuine"
"Each other all the time"
"To hug her as well"
"Yes, I don't mind receiving a hug"

I wish there was an edit button.

[Holding]

JoeJoe, thanks for your take on the convo! I noticed you seem to be having a lot of problems with typos lately. Bravo, good sir, for trying to get us our edit button back

Everyone I tell about it mentions the guilt she seems to be having about all this. It's good to get others' opinions, b/c honestly I don't trust myself to clearly see anything she says or does any more.

What you said about the hug, I don't think I was being p/a about it. I really just didn't care one way or the other. When she asked, my mind didn't say yes or no, I was just sorta meh.

I'll try to take it for what it is and be positive where I can. But she's currently out of town, and I'll only see her 2 times in the next week. She decided a while back to take our sons back to our hometown for Thanksgiving week, without any regard for what my plans were. I'm meeting up with her 2 times for kid exchange, but she'll have them for Thanksgiving day.

On a different note, I've finished Divorce Care. Despite the overwhelming religious overtones, I'd give it a recommendation. The support group aspect of it is probably its strongest point. The focus on scripture is sometimes a bit much for this Catholic boy, and the last session was pretty much a commercial for Christianity. But overall it gives you a good roadmap to get through D with a healthy frame of mind. It helps you think about the future, how it can be good, and how you can try to build a healthy R with your X after D. It also talks about recon, but it doesn't paint an unrealistic picture of the possibility. So if you're thinking about it, give it a go and see if it's for you.

[TBSakaJ9]

I'm not sure what you're asking. Can you clarify? She assumes I'm angry (and I hate her) because I don't talk to her and seem to be avoiding her. I am still angry, but I don't hate her any more. Are you saying I should act as if I'm not angry, and try to also resolve my anger?

Yes, what would it take for you to resolve your anger? Why are you angry? I don't think there is OM is there? I know she has not been the most pleasant person to deal with but can you get to the point to when she starts mouthing off you don't let it effect you? Do you feel as though you have lovingly detached without making it look like you hate her and are pissed?

Again I am not trying to be critical so please H don't take it that way H. I didn't have to go through in-house SEP so I have not walked in your shoes. I jumped in because you wanted feedback on the text exchange you had last week with her. Can you get to a point to where you take the higher ground and don't let her suck you in emtionally?

I know its easier said than done I just think something has to break the cycle if you guys have a chance to recon. Especailly since you are living under the same roof and kids are involved. If you took the lead and worked on breaking the cycle could your sitch become more peaceful?

[TBSakaJ9]

H.....this sounds really good! Maybe this will help you guys moving forward in a more peaceful sitch. It sounds like the both of you got to clear some of the air and maybe in some respects get on the same page.

IMO this was a really good first step to healing. Nice work!

[Holding]

Yes, what would it take for you to resolve your anger? Why are you angry?

I've been thinking about this since your post, J9. Here are a few reasons for my anger:

She rejected me.
She a quitter who gave up on our M.
She's selfish.
She's hurt my sons with her decision and this will follow them for the rest of their lives.
She's lied to me.
She's tried to hide assets from me.
She's tried to steamroll me in the D process.

How can I resolve these? I guess just having time to get over it. Having some real remorse from her and admitting the immense hurt she's caused would also help. I've gotten a little of that, but I need more.

I don't think there is OM is there?

There have been several fantasy As (online flirting), and there was at least an EA, if not PA. Her heart has definitely checked out and started looking elsewhere.

Do you feel as though you have lovingly detached without making it look like you hate her and are pissed?

No. I just haven't been able to do that. I've tried, but it's the best I've been able to manage. I suppose as time goes on I might be able to get there.

Can you get to a point to where you take the higher ground and don't let her suck you in emtionally?

This is really my main goal right now in regards to her. She tries so hard to suck me in, and I'm get better bit by bit.

[joejoe1]

H,

Keep up the good work. Identifying those feelings will truly help.

Get that optimism going. You are a lot stronger than just a few months ago.