Hey Sandi. Had actually been hoping on your take on a couple of things I posted above in response to your earlier responses. I know you are busy and in demand around here (and that you have a well-deserved private life as well), but if you get a second to scroll back through the last couple of my pages, always appreciated...
Nothing much new since I posted that. W is in a bit of a lull in terms of Reconciliation Energy right now. She's somewhat receptive when I bring things up (I mention reading in book MC recommended or doing the self exploration exercise we've been working on and she says "yeah I need to do that" or picks it up for a few minutes; or I mention that I know her work schedule is hell but that we should schedule another MC session since it's been three weeks and she says "how about 11/29"; but she hasn't seemed real eager or taken the initiative like she was doing in the week immediately following our last session (which was 10/25).
We're still going out socially on a weekly basis, which still seems to go pretty well, and she had actually proposed going out with another married couple this past weekend to see a band but that fell through when the band cancelled.
Demeanor wise she has been up and down the past week or so. I know the holidays have in recent years been a very "blue" period for her... likely because of our own sitch and how isolated she has felt, but also because they had, I think, come to be kind of "routine" and rote with our family. Last Thanksgiving and Christmas in particular, we didn't go to see family and none came to see us, and the boys were off a lot with their friends and it just didn't seem very special. She's talked about this in the past and told me fairly recently that holidays and special days often make her feel blue. I've seen this with her in church, as well, especially since the A. Don't know if she feels guilty in there or what, but it is not a comforting and uplifting place for her right now... she's stopped taking communion for one, and always seems kind of tense. This past weekend in particular she was out of sorts. We went out Friday night and later met up with some of her "girls" from work-- younger girls mostly single who she supervises but who really like her and look up to her (they consider her a "super-MILF", lol)-- but after that she kind of, idunno, "let herself go". Kind of moped around the house in yoga pants and a t-shirt the rest of the weekend. She's also seemed somewhat less "warm" (less responsive to touch, less likely to seek me out by phone/text or in person) though by no means "cold"-- just a bit of a pull-back by her. She's also still down about her body image-- says she's put on about 10 pounds since Spring, though I can't really tell and think she looks GREAT.
OTOH, she has been talking about a future in terms that include both of us in both the short to mid term(holidays, health plan) as well as long-term (retirement). She's also shown fairly strong interest (maybe even a little jealous-seeming) in the interactions between me and one of the lady bartenders where I hang out and with whom I am friendly. Younger girl, very pretty, but almost certainly too young for me (late 20s), but W seems to think she is interested and that she gives W the cold shoulder. (And FWIW my W, though she herself would not think so, is the more attractive woman.)
In terms of her actions, she is to all appearances "behaving" herself. I have spot checked her a couple of times and she did do a drive by of a couple of OM's hangouts a few days back that were out of her way from where she was actually going, but that is all. No evidence that she is contacting him in any way. FWIW we are pretty much right on the one-year anniversary of what would mark the beginning of her EA with the OM.
For me, I would like to be doing more GAL-type stuff, but colder weather takes me out of my element a bit (I am a very avid outdoor person) and I also am hesitant to "leave her to her own devices" or go off on my own for too long a period of time, though I have gone out a couple of times with friends to watch games or what not. Also, I suffered a shoulder injury a couple of weeks back which has drastically curtailed my fitness regimen for the time being and probably for the next few weeks. This is actually a little bit of a scary position for me to be in because the "old me" (the one who was chronically ill) was often injured, hurt, or in pain, and the sight of me hanging around the house with an icepack strapped on has got to remind her of that.
I'd like to start trying to do some "new" things with her-- She loves to dance and I had wanted to take a class; also wanted to take her shooting (nice combination, right? lol)since that was something she has mentioned to me a couple of times that she would like to try-- but timing and her demeanor just hasn't seemed right. Also haven't had any good looking openings to advance the physical touch angle, and the "kino" type of progression doesn't seem to be getting anywhere with her.
So... Kind of stuck in limbo? Probably missed some stuff and it would be helpful, I think, to review my last few posts dating back to your last posting here, but that's the broad brush right now.
In the immediate future, we have a trip planned to see my Dad and Step Mom and Step Brothers and their families for Thanksgiving. This should be good in that we will have lots of family around, but at the same time I know some of that part of my family's behaviors and personalties grate on her nerves (and, admittedly, on mine) from time to time. Christmas (actually day after and through new years) will involve a fairly long drive to the Midwest where we will visit my mom and sister, stopping en route to visit her family for a few days.
Any thoughts you have would be, as always, greatly appreciated. Really don't want to backslide here, in terms of our relationship, and don't want to see us slip back into our old patterns of just being roommates with no physical attraction.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
That's the problem with snooping, it just drives them ever-deeper under cover!
And if she's under-cover, she is like super duper under cover. I put the surveillance back up on her car for a couple of days, but nothing... so, if she is using her phone on some kind of alternate calling protocol, she is not doing it in her car. And doubtful she could be calling him from work-- while there is one good friend of hers there that I know covered for her one time when she left early to meet OM several months back, her coworkers, and especially her superiors are, for the most part, also friends of mine whom I doubt she would be willing to carry on conversations with OM at the risk of being caught. (OTOH, she hasn't been wearing her rings for months, and I know from her telling me that this has not gone unnoticed over there.)
But I really doubt she is doing anything. I have gotten ahold of her phone a couple of times (she is no longer "guarding" it and fairly regularly leaves it lying around)and there are not surreptitious apps or records of such apps being installed on it. And she is not at all tech-savvy and in the past has always been fairly sloppy, so I can't imagine she is doing anything on that phone. And she honestly just doesn't have the opportunity time-wise. I had some concerns/suspicions about her being at work late on a fairly regular basis the past few weeks, but conversations with the folks in her office (I am actually a patient over there now due to my injury) confirm that they are all in fact pretty much working these terrible hours due to trying to implement a new records keeping and patient management system.
So, my belief is that while she is still "in mourning" and in the process of "getting over" the A/OM, she is not actually doing anything to contact him or carry on a relationship. Can't guarantee he hasn't tried to contact her, of course, but, short of kicking his ass, not sure what I could do about that.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Has she given any explanation for why she is not wearing her rings
I lost my ring approximately two years ago, in unknown circumstances and at an unknown location. Just look down one day and it was gone. Probably some kind of Advance warning sign, LOL. Our relationship was such at the time that we never really discussed it. I think at one point I hoped that I might be able to replace it without her finding out I lost it, but there was never any really urgency to do so, and like I said, we never really talked about it. I think at some point I might have actually said "oh wow, hey, my ring is missing , I think I know some of the places where it might be but I just haven't been able to look in all those places", but I am not certain, and I know that she never remark upon it. Her rings, she tells me, came off sometime in the spring of 2016, well before she started her relationship with the OM, and also before she started regularly hanging out with BFF and dolling herself up and going out and playing single girl. She said it just didn't feel right wearing them, like it was a lie or something.
Since DB, we really haven't discussed it much, directly other than that. She has told me that they have noticed at work, at least some of them, that she is not wearing it, but that she has made excuses, like that it was getting too big and falling off or that she was worried about losing it. For my part, I have asked her if her mother, who is very observant and notice is lots of little details, including my tattoo which I thought I had done a very good job of concealing, had noticed or commented on it, but she says that her mother has said nothing. I have also on one or two occasions said something to the effect that I view our old marriage as being over, and that my vision for us reconciling includes new vows and such. While on that were those occasions, I never mentioned it explicitly, I would assume that new Rings were implied.
Don't know if that answers your question or not. Certainly, our marriage counselor has not commented on it, although she knows that we are not wearing them. Is this something that you think I should be insisting that she put back on? I mean honestly, it just had not occurred to me.
Oh, and also, I mentioned it one other time obliquely. When she had been out with BFF and another friend, and become involved in a sexually frank conversation with a 30-something male bartender, who had subsequently slipped her his phone number, and about which she had told me, I remarked that I did not exactly feel comfortable with that sort of Exchange, since it was that sort of Indiscreet exchange with a single member of the opposite sex that had led to the relationship which was now causing us problems. She then asked if I would rather she'd not have told me, and I said, no, I was very glad she told me and was glad she felt she can be open with me about that kind of thing. However, under the circumstances, I did not feel that it was appropriate for her to put herself in that situation, although, if we had fully reconciled, and I were feeling safe in our relationship, and she was wearing her rings, it might not have bothered me as much. That was a little over three months ago, only about three or four weeks into this current phase. That was also the last time she saw a BFF before the very long layoff.
And let me clarify because sometimes I am careless when I am typing and even more often when I am dictating: I did not say "I view our marriage as being over"... although in a sense that is what I meant. More precisely, IIRC, what I said was "if we reconcile and commit to our marriage going forward, I think it is going to have to be a new relationship, not one based on the relationship we had before." I was very careful not to let her off the hook by saying I viewed the M as being "over."
Last edited by Cadet; 11/20/1710:59 AM. Reason: Combine posts
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
I've never seen a completed call not get captured in the billing statement.. The only thing I can think of is it might be possible to "call forward" calls to another phone and not have them show on the bill, but I don't know if that would be the case. I've never tried it.
Actually it is pretty easy. Sign up for a Google Voice account. Then make outbound calls using the service. That doesn't even count the number of services that offer VoIP.
Not trying to make you paranoid hoosjim but with modern technology it is too easy to conceal who you are talking too.
Hey Sandi. Been awhile. Just wondering if you had any further take on the ring angle or anything. That was a new one on me and one i hadnt considered.
Well.......it seems to me if she said she was committed to working on the MR, she would have put on her wedding ring.
I don't hHave hang-ups about rings, if they were not removed due to acting like GGW, or an A, etc. However, when that is the case......and then if she ends that behavior and commits to the M.......why would it not be a natural reaction to put on her wedding ring? Isn't that a sign of being in a committed relationship?
I hope I am wrong to worry about this, but it just seems a bit off. If her finger is not swollen, or if the rings is not too large........there is only one reason I can think that would prevent her from wearing it. That being, she hasn't come to terms with wanting to play the single life. Yeah, she may say she's being honest with you in some way, by not wearing it........just like her flirting and using inappropriate conversation with other men.
It seems unfair to claim she will stay in the M but won't make that one effort that tells other men she is a M woman. She needs to see the IC and get her head straight.
Did she go with you on the four day trip? How has it gone?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well.......it seems to me if she said she was committed to working on the MR, she would have put on her wedding ring.
Well, yes, in a vacuum I would completely agree. However, as soon as I bring it up, she is liable to say: "Well, why aren't you wearing one?" The short answer to which (and which she also well knows) is "Because i lost mine and haven't been wearing one since even before you took yours off." (Remember I lost mine maybe a year and half or so ago. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Of course, I would have to go out and buy a new one, but... I had been hoping to save that for reconcilliation and renewing vows and a new beginning etc. etc. Do you think maybe instead I should be broaching the subject with her sooner? As in "Hey, I've been thinking I really wish I had a ring to wear, but you know I lost mine... How do you feel about us wearing them as a sign of our commitment to work on this together?"
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Did she go with you on the four day trip? How has it gone?
Yes, trip to see my family. Went well, especially considering that holidays the past couple years have been "blue" for her. A couple of hard moments with my S17 and his tourettes, but was generlaly pretty fun and "light". Caught her "looking" at me a few times "That way"... I was really happy/up/ebullient and in my element. She reached out a couple times to me physically, leaned her head on my shoulder when laughing... nothing major, but... she had been doing absolutely NOTHING along those lines previously. Also, got the impresseion that she wanted me to cuddle a little in bed, but I didn't want to push things there...probably should have...
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Yeah, I think it would have been a good time to initiate a little snug. When you see her laughing and having a good day, making some body contact, that may be the night to lay closer to her, or go for a hug. If she went cold, at least you'd know to back away.
Having a SSM for a long time can cause both partners to wait on the other one to make the first move.
Just continue to increase those daily non-sexual touches. Gradually start giving her a hug when you leave for work. Then a very light kiss, and slowly go from there over time until she appears comfortable with it. If she doesn't respond warmly, then you'll know she's probably not ready to carry it further.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
