For folks joining in on the action at this point, quick summary:
W walked out in typical BD fashion and then mixed messages for a few months which gave me difficulties in doing DBing. Had a big chat 2 months ago and she said that separation was permanent. Since then I've been basically NC/Dark aside from being proactive on kid communications. No pursuing or asking questions. Took some time to get my head straight but then completely focused on myself and things are getting better.
Last night had a convo with W, which was fairly short. You can read up on it at the end of my last thread.
Feeling better today and just about to go climbing with the kiddies, which will be a huge mental boost. At this point I am basically done and will not be engaging in those types of convos for the forseeable future. I am just not yet in a place where I feel physically awesome and mentally strong. But, the plan is now again to rededicate everything to myself and just forget about W.
What she was trying to tell me was she didnt feel safe of being herself around me because I was always trying to fix her. She just needed a person to listen to her and since I was trying to fix her, she saw me as always having a problem with her.
On the flip side, when she would identify a problem with me I would get defensive. So in her mind, there was no making me happy. She wasn't good enough.
So I just started listening to her. I shut up and just listening. And then I started validating, I didn't care if I thought she was wrong. Then I started apologizing for all the things I truly did wrong. I identified how I hurt her and what she held resentment towards me and I apologized for those. Her walls came down and then I had a chance to give my perception and my true feelings. The reasons why I was so defensive and the reasons why I though I was helping by providing solutions.
I had to allow her to feel safe aroind me before I had a chance to try and convince her I was safe for he from open up around. I hope that helps.
Thanks Joe for that perspective. I did have that fixer type mentality as well and would rather debate her about stuff than just listen. I have improved dramatically in the listening and validation part and will keep doing that whenever the opportunities arise. Now that we are physically separated and I am NC/Dark, those moments won't happen for a while until she warms up. But, that's okay. I am in no rush as I need the time to figure my own $hit out.
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I would say to just hang in there. If you are ever going to build a R back I think it starts with both of you getting over the anger and frustration first. Once that happens maybe you guys start opening up to each other and you work on building a friendship. Not where you are the erand boy but her starting to open up and engage in more conversation. Then maybe that leads to some innocent flirting, small jokes, stuff like that. I think you have to build the attraction all over again. You looking good, getting in good shape, and since you are not pursuing then maybe it leads to her starting to see you in a different light, you become smokin hot again. Your playing hard to get so that attraction starts to build
You're absolutely right. She is holding on to a lot of anger and frustration and not sure what she's doing to address her depression. There is nothing that can come unless she does something to deal with that. I think the separation is good in that sense that I am out of her face and she needs to just figure out what's going on with her. Yeh, with the innocent flirting and small jokes and stuff, that can happen for sure and I'll see how that goes and keep my expectations zero. There's also no way to turn this ship around if I don't improve myself and get physically, mentally, and emotionally jacked. I have to do that for myself. So, all in all, I think it's good and with all the hurt she's felt over the years, it would've been amazingly optimistic to think that she was coming around after a few months.
So, back on the horse and I feel a sense of relief for some reason. Maybe it is because I don't have to put in work for the MR right now. If she had brought up what the future R could look like, it just sounds draining right now to go through it personally. I just need this time for myself.
Yesterday was a really good day. In hindsight, that convo with W two days ago was pretty unnecessary, but she dipped her toes into R talks and I was able to validate and just listen. Didn't argue with her about anything or blamed her.
I just feel a lot more at peace right now because I can't change the outcome or pace of this at all. As I mentioned, she has issues she needs to grapple with and I hope that she can do that for herself, regardless what happens with our MR. Her feelings about how she can't make me happy are very much rooted in her own self-esteem and self-value. She needs to get to a place to know that she is a valuable person and that she doesn't need validation for that from me or anyone else. She also needs to understand that my depression played a huge part in my actions towards her and that it wasn't a reflection of how I felt about her.
But, I can't communicate that at this point because she is not in a place where she can hear me due to her anger and depression. She has to work it out for herself and only then we can have any hope of reconnecting, if ever. So, knowing that I can't do anything for her at this point has allowed me to reframe my thinking about moving forward.
I'll keep posting as things progress and journal as I see fit, but I don't really anticipate anything happening for a long time. This place has been a refuge and blessing and I am glad I found it in time.
she's telling me I have always been amazing and that I was unhappy. She couldn't figure out how to make me happy. In this she became sad and alone and that we weren't best for each other. She's happy that I am focusing on myself and finding happiness.
Very script-y. I heard almost the exact same stuff from my XW.
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Yesterday was a really good day. In hindsight, that convo with W two days ago was pretty unnecessary, but she dipped her toes into R talks and I was able to validate and just listen.
Doesn't sound like she wanted an R talk so much as a "here's my feeble attempt to explain why we're done" talk.
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Her feelings about how she can't make me happy are very much rooted in her own self-esteem and self-value.
Well, I think when my XW said that stuff to me I thought much the same as you, but looking back later I did realize that while I wasn't depressed in our M I was very, VERY bad at expressing happiness. I could be quite grumpy and I complained a lot, I always saw it as venting but in retrospect it made my XW think I was depressed and unhappy. I really wasn't, but I can certainly see why she thought I was. It's behavior I've done a 180 on for the most part. I vent in the car by myself now, LOL! I don't "dump" on others (especially family) like I used to.
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I'll keep posting as things progress and journal as I see fit, but I don't really anticipate anything happening for a long time.
Probably not in your M, but that doesn't mean you can't talk here about other aspects of your life
Probably not in your M, but that doesn't mean you can't talk here about other aspects of your life
AS is right, you can talk about other stuff here, but don't mention burning rectal itch. I made the mistake of discussing the details of my own experiences with burning rectal itch. It was a disaster. A bunch of posters piled-on and started swinging 2x4s. I'll never do that again.
Doesn't sound like she wanted an R talk so much as a "here's my feeble attempt to explain why we're done" talk.
Yeh it was really strange. I don't know why she wanted to chat. Either way it was pretty straight forward and I know that there's nothing to really talk about at this point in terms of MR.
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Well, I think when my XW said that stuff to me I thought much the same as you, but looking back later I did realize that while I wasn't depressed in our M I was very, VERY bad at expressing happiness.
I was definitely very very bad at expressing happiness and now looking at it from the outside, I must've been pretty unpleasant to be around. I am definitely doing a 180 on that and whatever communications on in-person time that I have with her, I will keep it positive and happy.
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AS is right, you can talk about other stuff here, but don't mention burning rectal itch. I made the mistake of discussing the details of my own experiences with burning rectal itch. It was a disaster. A bunch of posters piled-on and started swinging 2x4s. I'll never do that again
Doodler, 2x4s on your burning rectal itch! Ouchhh!! You must've had to go see a specialist to take all the splinters out
Hope everyone was able to get through the Holidays with some peace.
Nothing serious to report back. Operation NC/Dark still in place with W. At the last phone chat I had told her I didn't have any interest in being her friend.
Nothing to read into here, but she sent me a buncha kid photos over the weekend and suggested a social activity that I would enjoy. That was a bit weird but I didn't respond to the texts because there was nothing to say.
Then the next day she sends me some stuff about issues with the kids to which I responded because my D is having a hard time with some stuff at school. And during that she texted me about what they did over the weekend and what not. I just responded to her about the D stuff and let the other things go. All the non-kid stuff would be convos that you would have with someone you wanted to be 'friends' with, which I have clearly stated is not the position that I want to play.
Anyways, not reading into it, but it was definitely weird. In the real scheme of things, a few texts are not going to turn anything around. But, being NC/Dark has been good for me. 2 months ago her texts would've taken up a lot more mental space than now.
All in all, things are great and I am looking forward to the holidays. Going to figure out some traditions that are just going to be me and the kiddos. They need to have a lot of happiness this season as they been through a lot.
I've been trying to read through your threads. I haven't gotten through all of them yet but its impressive to hear how well you're handling everything. It sounds like you've developed resilience and you're doing a lot to move forward.
There seems to be something about Thanksgiving and the long weekend as I posted about my situation. Perhaps your wife was remembering previous Thanksgiving holidays you had together as a family and missed those times, and reached out as a result. Or maybe she realized being a single mother isn't so fun when there's no one with whom to share those special moments with the kids. Maybe she's testing you to see if you can be friends even though you said no.
I guess how you interpret the texts doesn't matter so much if you're planning to maintain the NC rule. I didn't get through enough of your threads to see if there's any chance at reconciliation in the future. It's good though that you're able to focus on the kids and making the holidays as happy as possible for them. I feel so sorry for all the kids who have to spend the holidays in a broken home for the first time. They deserve extra special care and love.
