Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
previous thread

Continuing the conversation.

Summary...
My W wanted a D due to PA with OM. That fell apart and I did tons of 180s, and my W decided not to D. She declared she will stay as a partner in raising kids only.

Things seemed to be improving until the recent event of my W accidentally sending me a text meant for my BIL. W freaked out and told my BIL what happened. I thought my W had ended her EA with my BIL. I figured it was time to tell my sister about the EA. After W found out, she told me she was filing for D. My W did not file, and has been very angry since...likely she feels trapped. In recent argument, W declared she will not leave me because she does not want to split time with the kids.

W has been acting very badly toward me in front of the kids lately. Consensus is for me to leave the house. I have been advised not to leave unless divorced.

I am not ready to throw in the towel or divorce. Not yet.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Listening to Love Must be Tough audiobook right now during my commutes, BTW. The author discusses WAW using same terms everyone here knows.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Originally Posted By: Tate
Things seemed to be improving


Ive seen you say this a few times.

What was 'improving'? That she wasnt mentioning divorce?

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
Improving?!

She's acting disrespectful and angry towards you in front of the kids and it is spilling over to them. She is only not divorcing you because she doesn't want to split time with the kids.

Where exactly is the improvement?

I am not saying this to be mean. But you are in serious denial right now. Your situation is very unhealthy.

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 505
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 505
I have to agree with Ginger on this. I also think that the longer you allow the status quo to maintain here, the WORSE this is going to get.


Just keep swimming
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952
Originally Posted By: Tate
Listening to Love Must be Tough audiobook right now during my commutes, BTW. The author discusses WAW using same terms everyone here knows.


Tate,

Do you like the audiobook?

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Ginger/East -
I took that from Tate's summary. It was improving before the latest thing with the texts a couple months ago.

I was just wondering what he meant by improving during that time? Seeing as how the A was continuing....

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Tate
previous thread

Continuing the conversation.

Summary...
My W wanted a D due to PA with OM. That fell apart and I did tons of 180s, and my W decided not to D. She declared she will stay as a partner in raising kids only.


this ^^^ is not a reconcialation, you realize, right? This is her saying "There's no OM at the moment and so I'll stick around MY kids..." AND it's after you pretzeled yourself for her.


- I thought my W had ended her EA with my BIL. I figured it was time to tell my sister about the EA. After W found out, she told me she was filing for D. My W did not file, and has been very angry since...likely she feels trapped. In recent argument, W declared she will not leave me because she does not want to split time with the kids.

W has been acting very badly toward me in front of the kids lately. Consensus is for me to leave the house. I have been advised not to leave unless divorced.

Correction: consensus is for you to leave UNLESS a L advises you against it - some won't- IN WHICH CASE we suggest you get a TRO or whatever other tool is used in your jurisdiction. TO get HER out, or you or whatever.

Your present situation is untenable. I'm not sure what it will take for you to believe that.

No likelihood of improvement in this arrangement AND instead, chances are continued deterioration.



I am not ready to throw in the towel or divorce. Not yet
.




then leave. That's right, LEAVE if you want to save the marriage!

it is an odd form of stubbornness or denial that tells you by staying in a sh1t situation you are somehow improving it.

Get out and let her figure things out IF IF IF she can.


She sure won't with you both in the same house. This is so clear to me.

Sorry


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
In response to things improving, my W was planning trips around my schedule, picking up the slack on chores, generally being friendlier and more accomodating. I know this sounds insignificant, but it was a noticeable change in my W.

As far as the audiobook, I like it so far. It has some very strong religious references that go overboard for me, but it is sound reading and advice. Half way through it, and author is talking about detaching from the wayward spouse. Its a short book...6 hr audio.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
For my education, from those who have left their homes without divorcing, what do you recommend for handling finances, kids, property? Ie, do you open new bank accounts, take all you belongings, and set up custody as if divorced?

I fear that me leaving will ultimately lose me custody of kids and our house as well as put me in a disadvantage in any negotiations. Is there a way to pursuade my W to leave?

Of course the usual Friday night couch sleep drama went on tonight...son(11) was sitting on couch with me. W asked us both to move to another couch so she could go to sleep. I was hoping my son would ask why she needed to sleep on the couch, but he simply moved. I ignored my W and stayed there until I was ready to go to bed. I ended up staying up a bit longer with my son, and my W sat there on Facebook. I sat down on the couch again, and a couple minutes later, my W asked me to move so she could lay down. I told her she could sleep in the bedroom because we were using the living room. She told me that she sleeps on the couch now and I was being tacky. I tucked my son in and went to bed.

Should I have handled this situation differently?


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Your questions are only answerable by a lawyer in your state.

So see a lawyer and stop this where to sleep, battle.

It's not worth falling on your sword. You don't know your rights, you are debating something in front of the kids.

Your wife works at odd hours, right? So she has to sleep somewhere, while you are awake. In theory could she ask YOU to change to her hours?

See^^? This is minutia that stinks for your son. This is a distraction.

Learn your rights and start asserting them.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
Of course the usual Friday night couch sleep drama went on tonight...son(11) was sitting on couch with me. W asked us both to move to another couch so she could go to sleep. I was hoping my son would ask why she needed to sleep on the couch, but he simply moved. I ignored my W and stayed there until I was ready to go to bed. I ended up staying up a bit longer with my son, and my W sat there on Facebook. I sat down on the couch again, and a couple minutes later, my W asked me to move so she could lay down. I told her she could sleep in the bedroom because we were using the living room. She told me that she sleeps on the couch now and I was being tacky. I tucked my son in and went to bed.


I don't get it. What exactly were you trying to prove? Plus......you have more than one couch? Is this couch the one she alsways chooses to sleep on? Sorry, but that just makes you appear like an stubborn a$$. There's nothing attractive there. It's one thing if she's trying to force you to leave the room, but she simply asked you to sit on the other couch so that she could lay down.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
Of course the usual Friday night couch sleep drama went on tonight...son(11) was sitting on couch with me. W asked us both to move to another couch so she could go to sleep. I was hoping my son would ask why she needed to sleep on the couch, but he simply moved. I ignored my W and stayed there until I was ready to go to bed. I ended up staying up a bit longer with my son, and my W sat there on Facebook. I sat down on the couch again, and a couple minutes later, my W asked me to move so she could lay down. I told her she could sleep in the bedroom because we were using the living room. She told me that she sleeps on the couch now and I was being tacky. I tucked my son in and went to bed.



I don't get it. What exactly were you trying to prove? Plus......you have more than one couch? Is this couch the one she alsways chooses to sleep on? Sorry, but that just makes you appear like an stubborn a$$. There's nothing attractive there. It's one thing if she's trying to force you to leave the room, but she simply asked you to sit on the other couch so that she could lay down.







THIS^^^ WHAT SANDI SAID. ^^^^^

To me, It's you pretending you have a boundary. Like not letting her use YOUR cereal bowl!!! - but letting her talk to you horribly, AND in front of the kids.

This "couch" thing is minutia.

Metaphor --- When you hunt a squid, it emits ink in order to hide. And sometimes it's hard to see thru the ink and the squid gets away.

See thru it.
The couch "battle" you thnk you "won" and how it makes you look is INK.

Get to the squid (if my metaphor fails, here is what I mean)

--- Solve the REAL issues, not quibble and stomp your feet and fall on your sword for something that reeks of weak pettiness. The couch is NOT the issue. And reeking of weakness and pettiness

are the opposites of your goal, I assume.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Okay, I admit Im confused. So, I should just move, leave the room, or sleep on tge couch any time my wife tells me to? Fyi, she is sleeping on the couch because she refuses to sleep in our bed. She is making her problem everyones problem. If she wants to sleep early, she can.

I know this is a small example, but so is her telling me to do all the chores. Should I do that also?

I got it that you are speaking toward much larger boundaries, like her disrespecting me in front of the kids, but this couch thing was her telling my son and I to change our evenibg for her odd behavior.

And, yes, we have 2 identical couches. She was kicking us off the one in view of the tv because she likes that couch better.

Please give me an example of a boundary and how to enforce it so I betyer understand what constitutes a boundary. I figure these things are small boundaries...not allowing my W to alter our plans for her demanding behavior.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
One more comment for sandi2...I gaurantee if I leave the house, my wife will call me an a$$.

She has called me an a$$ for not doing the dishes on her timetable, for staying outside working on the house or yard too long, for disagreeing with her on consequences for kids misbehaving, etc.

As previously mentioned, my W was responding the best to me when I did every chore imaginable and accompanied her and the kids on every excursion.

The recent negative turn was from me letting my sister know about my W and my BIL. That is when I stopped receiving any communications from my W during the day, stopped having her at least say goodnight, good morning, have a good day, etc.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Tate,

Make an appointment with a lawyer and explain to the lawyer that your W is extremely verbally abusive to you in front of your kids and you would like to remove yourself from the toxic situation. Find out if it will effect your custody rights and your ability to get back in the house in the future if needed.

I have a feeling she has called you worse things then an as$! Seriously?

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
[quote=Tate]One more comment for sandi2...I gaurantee if I leave the house, my wife will call me an a$$.

and then what? I mean, so what?


She has called me an a$$ for not doing the dishes on her timetable,

and then what happened? I mean, you seem to think being called a name is a fatal event. It's not a reflection on YOU...



for staying outside working on the house or yard too long, for disagreeing with her on consequences for kids misbehaving, etc.


is your plan to keep doing whatever she wants/demands ---- IN CASE she'll call you a name? Honestly, I don't get this fear of names that you have.

What if she stomped round and yelled or called you a purple zebra?

Her data is NOT real. So it matters NOT.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
Okay, I admit Im confused. So, I should just move, leave the room, or sleep on tge couch any time my wife tells me to? Fyi, she is sleeping on the couch because she refuses to sleep in our bed. She is making her problem everyones problem. If she wants to sleep early, she can.


Do you know what it means to strain at a gnat and swallow a camel? It means you are making a big deal out of smaller issues, while you seemingly ignore the bigger ones. All we have is what you described in your post, so if there's more to it, then perhaps you failed to mention it. For instance, you said nothing about it being the only couch in view of the tv, until after my response. See what I mean? So, for learning purposes, let's strain at this gnat one more time.

Quote:
Of course the usual Friday night couch sleep drama went on tonight...son(11) was sitting on couch with me. W asked us both to move to another couch so she could go to sleep. I was hoping my son would ask why she needed to sleep on the couch, but he simply moved.


Here are my questions: (1) Has she consistantly slept on that particular couch, or has her sleeping arrangement been spasmatic? (2) Did she ask politely, or did she demand that you move? (3). Why did you hope your S11 would question his mother why she needed to sleep on the couch? What did you stand to gain.....other than hoping to see her embarrassed or being put on the spot by her eleven yr old son?

Quote:
I ignored my W and stayed there until I was ready to go to bed. I ended up staying up a bit longer with my son, and my W sat there on Facebook
.

Claiming that you were staying longer to be with your son, really doesn't validate your actions in this case, IMHO. You said nothing to her and simply sat there ignoring her (but not completely, b/c you could see she was on FB).

Quote:
I sat down on the couch again, and a couple minutes later,


So, at some point you got off the couch and then sat on it again.

Quote:
my W asked me to move so she could lay down. I told her she could sleep in the bedroom because we were using the living room. She told me that she sleeps on the couch now and I was being tacky.


If she had acted like she had done previously, demanded you leave the living room so she could sleep on the couch.......then I could support you this time around. But I see where she asked twiced that you move to the other couch. ( Are there no other chairs in the room facing the tv?). What made you appear as if you were just being stubborn is that you chose to ignore her, until you said she could sleep in the bedroom......and you sat down on the same couch after you had left it.

So again.........what were you trying to prove? Was it to show her she could not boss you around? Were you trying to force her to sleep in the bed with you? Were you wanting S11 to speak up and be your team partner?

Is there no other places in the house your W could sleep, other than in the living room?

Quote:
I got it that you are speaking toward much larger boundaries, like her disrespecting me in front of the kids, but this couch thing was her telling my son and I to change our evenibg for her odd behavior.

And, yes, we have 2 identical couches. She was kicking us off the one in view of the tv because she likes that couch better.


Maybe it is a difference in word communication, but you did not previously say she was kicking you off the couch. You stated twice that she "asked" you to move. Does that mean the same to you?

Quote:
I got it that you are speaking toward much larger boundaries, like her disrespecting me in front of the kids, but this couch thing was her telling my son and I to change our evenibg for her odd behavior
.

Well, I won't debate what her intentions were, but what I am trying to show you, Tate, is your response (in your written description) does not sound like a strong, attractive male would handle this type of situation. If I misunderstand and if your W saw you being strong & attractive.....that's what counts here. Btw, just curious......do you sit in the same spot every night to watch tv? Does the family turn off the tv at a particular time every night?

If you are going to stay under the same roof with her, then setting a few ground rules may avoid some of these wordless battle of the wills. Don't discuss it in front of the kids, but calmly tell her (in private) that if she intends to use that particular couch for her bed, then a reasonable set hour for her to make out her bed on the couch should be agreed upon, without disrupting those who are watching tv. No more scenes, no more being kicked out of the room, etc.

Quote:
I know this is a small example, but so is her telling me to do all the chores. Should I do that also?


Don't jump from one polar to the other. I don't see her telling you to do all the chores as anything small.. You don't have to do a single thing she tells you to do, okay? Neither does she have to do what you say. You need to know how to blance this stuff, if you intend to stay under the same room with her.

Quote:
Please give me an example of a boundary and how to enforce it so I betyer understand what constitutes a boundary. I figure these things are small boundaries...not allowing my W to alter our plans for her demanding behavior.


Alter your plans? For what.......changing seats to watch tv? She asked you to move to the other couch. Was she demanding? IDK, you didn't write as if she were. I wasn't there, and we have only your posts.

There is an entire thread on boundaries, if you care to read the homework.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
25yearsmlc, I am not concerned with the names my W calls me. I was just responding to the ass comment from sandi2.

For sandi2, details on the couch thing...W asked this time instead of telling me. She almost immediately asked when I was going to be going to bed. I told her 15 minutes and continued hanging out with my son. I moved as I said I would within the 15 minutes. Then, my W sat where I had been sitting and surfed facebook on her phone instead of laying down. After 10 minutes of her surfing FB, I sat back down on that couch. Nearly immediately, my W asked me to move so she could lay down. I got up and tucked our son in.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
I will read up on boundaries and also try to give more details on my events. I only have time to post here right before bed and sometimes get too tired to post all the details.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Tate
25yearsmlc, I am not concerned with the names my W calls me. I was just responding to the ass comment from sandi2.

why are you not concerned with how your w speaks to you?


For sandi2, details on the couch thing...W asked this time instead of telling me. She almost immediately asked when I was going to be going to bed. I told her 15 minutes and continued hanging out with my son. I moved as I said I would within the 15 minutes. Then, my W sat where I had been sitting and surfed facebook on her phone instead of laying down. After 10 minutes of her surfing FB, I sat back down on that couch. Nearly immediately, my W asked me to move so she could lay down. I got up and tucked our son in.



minutia, squid ink, whatever. You are missing the BIG point we are making.

it's like saying she didn't serve you the cereal you wanted but then she did

oh, and then she threw it out the window saying she hates you b/c she wanted eggs.

She disrespects you in your home to your face AND involving the kids.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM^^^^^^^^

not facts in a small scenario in which she probably has a point....but I'm "stuck" on ho bad things are between you that you scavenge for the scraps you can get.

Please don't.

Not sure what else to say.

Please...you must teach your kids to set limits on how they are treated and that often means LEAVING bad treatment.

See the lawyer about the kids. Sue her for divorce, get a TRO on HER, check your rights not just about money, etc.

Not just "what if she leaves..." Many MANY questions...

are you getting IC?? Please do. No shame in it. It'll help your kids!



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
IC?

I will meet with a lawyer for more information. Also planning on a call to a DB counselor...I had several sessions with them early in this ordeal. Good advice from them, but so far definitely more conservative than what I hear on these boards.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
BTW, book Love Must be Tough is spot on. Author advises to create a huge crisis early on to disrupt spouses actions. I do wish I had acted more abruptly sooner. As time passes, the impacts of actions decrease. Case in point is a huge reaction upon first finding out about my eifes affair. A huge teaction from me would have shaken her back to reality.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Originally Posted By: Tate
Of course the usual Friday night couch sleep drama went on tonight


So you already know she is sleeping on this couch. You already know that she is going to want to go to bed early.

Like....why are you messing around in that room anyway? Dont you have anything better to do?

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Kaizen, there are a couple factors here. First one is my W is very polarized on bedtimes. She will stay up until 2 am one night and get up at 5 am, while other nights she will want to go to bed...and kick everyone out of the living room at 8 pm and sleep until 8 am. I never know what night it is for her. I keep a fairly consistent schedule with bed times and wake times.

I was relaxing with my son(11) in the room. This was the first time my W has told my son that she sleeps on the couch on purpose...she has a long history of falling asleep on the couch.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
So, recently, my W came home with a cage and two rats that my son(11) has been asking for. I was a little concerned since he already has 2 snakes and a beta fish. Although less than enthused, I can live with another pet in the house.

Today, I was looking over the bills and saw that the rat supplies were very expensive and from an exotic pet store. Sure enough, the pet store is owned by the man my W had a physical affair with.

It turns out my W has been buying all the pet supplies from this shop, dropping in to see this D-bag with our kids every week after school.

So, my question is should I demand my W not visit his shop, not take the kids there, or...? I am guessing the best answer is to demand she not take our kids there anymore...I cannot force her to stop going.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952
Tate,

Wowza!

Maybe I don't don't understand the full extent of your situation. I thought the issue was with the BIL, not the BIL and some other guy.

I have difficulty mustering the finesse and cordial wording that other people use when posting, but I'll try my best. Your marriage is a sham. You should kick your wife to the curb and move on.

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Originally Posted By: Tate
Kaizen, there are a couple factors here. First one is my W is very polarized on bedtimes. She will stay up until 2 am one night and get up at 5 am, while other nights she will want to go to bed...and kick everyone out of the living room at 8 pm and sleep until 8 am. I never know what night it is for her. I keep a fairly consistent schedule with bed times and wake times.

I was relaxing with my son(11) in the room. This was the first time my W has told my son that she sleeps on the couch on purpose...she has a long history of falling asleep on the couch.


Come on.

You said this was "usual Friday night drama". Youve posted here several times that W goes to bed early on Fridays and there is an argument about the quietness around her.

To me, being in that room after dinner on Friday night is just looking to stir up trouble.

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Originally Posted By: Tate
So, my question is should I demand my W not visit his shop, not take the kids there, or...?


Look man you know you can't demand her to do anything. Even when the kids are involved unless there is a court order for her not to take them to the pet store.

How is living like you are now better then living with your children in peace 50% of the time and living alone in peace 50% of the time?

IMO if you think she is going to wake up one day while you are still living together and say "wow what I was thinking I have everything I ever wanted in Tate and my family right along" you are fooling yourself.

Look man I know it is scary thinking about splitting time with your kids and starting all over again. But it will be so much better then what your'e dealing with now. Who knows maybe she wakes up someday down the road?

Are you in IC? If not IMO you should be to find out why you are willing to let your wife treat you like a doormat.

You deserve better!

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
Kick W to the curb, because she ain't going to do a thing you tell her. And explain to her why this is the straw that finally broke the camels back. And cut her access to the funds. You bankrolling OM business, while he is screwing your W.


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Originally Posted By: doodler


Maybe I don't don't understand the full extent of your situation. I thought the issue was with the BIL, not the BIL and some other guy.



The initial divorce threat was when my W was thinking of running off with the pet shop owner. After finding out about this PA, my digging uncovered a very long lasting EA with my BIL. The pet shop guy broke off their plans to be together, bu apparently my W is still pursuing him over a year later.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Originally Posted By: Kaizen

To me, being in that room after dinner on Friday night is just looking to stir up trouble.


Our house has 4 bedrooms and a living room/kitchen/breakfast room all one area. My W taking up the living room relegates my kids and me to a bedroom.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Not attending individual counseling.

I am looking into lawyers right now. I plan to divorce only as a last resort, but I need legal guidance on what I need to avoid doing in the meantime.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Has there been any other inappropriate behavior in the past?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
No inappropriate behavior in the past that I lnow of or can think of.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
I talked to a DB coach today who put a different perspective on things. Maybe it was just the ability to have an interactive conversation for fluid discussion, but it clarified my situation immensely.

The short is that I will need to massively GAL. This will have an effect all its own, or as a worst case, prepare me for moving on. The concept is that my W does not want a marriage, so I need to stop being a spouse. I can continue to live in the same house but must treat my W as a room mate...and a bad room mate at that.

We also discussed scenarios...the couch power struggle, seeing my BIL at the holidays, arguments, and my W continuing contact with OM. Take away is I need to stop acting contrary to what I think or believe...no more acting friendly to my BIL to keep peace, no more allowing my W to push me around any more than I would allow a room mate.

I will work on telling my W when I disagree with something she does or says nicely, while not getting sucked into arguments...especially in front of the kids.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952
Originally Posted By: Tate
The short is that I will need to massively GAL. This will have an effect all its own, or as a worst case, prepare me for moving on. The concept is that my W does not want a marriage, so I need to stop being a spouse. I can continue to live in the same house but must treat my W as a room mate...and a bad room mate at that.


Awesome! That sounds like a plan.

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
That's exactly what you have been advised by the board. So, how is it a different perspective?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Originally Posted By: sandi2
That's exactly what you have been advised by the board. So, how is it a different perspective?



Not so different..I meant to give credit to everyone here who has provided similar advice.

The new perspective was more on my part...interactively talking helped me see my relationship or lack thereof in a new light.

Im going out tonight with friends to see a one night movie screening.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Originally Posted By: Tate
Originally Posted By: Kaizen

To me, being in that room after dinner on Friday night is just looking to stir up trouble.


Our house has 4 bedrooms and a living room/kitchen/breakfast room all one area. My W taking up the living room relegates my kids and me to a bedroom.


Im glad that the DB coach helped you to redirect your thoughts and energies.

I hope that you can see now why your actions with regards to the living room on Fridays is not helping you in any way. There are plenty of places in the world for you and your son to be, but you are insistent on choosing the ONLY place where W is AND you are making life difficult for her.

I know if I had a roommate I didnt particularly care for, I wouldnt squat where they are going to sleep and insist to spend time there. Especially not if i was trying to start a new relationship with them.

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
Im going out tonight with friends to see a one night movie screening.


Great! I hope you have a good time.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Sorry that it has been a while since I posted....

I have been GAL more than ever before, and detaching to the point that it would not bother me if my W up and left tomorrow.

As mentioned, the coaching session really helped me focus my effort. BTW, the coach thought it was the right move for me standing my ground on using the living room as most people would.

So here is a new scenario that I wanted to get opinions on: my W was planning on taking the kids to their cousin's birthday party (the BIL involved in my wifes EA) out of town Sunday and staying the night at her moms house. She will leave the kids with her mom and head back home to return with me on Thanksgiving day.

We just found out tonight that my W's grandmother is very ill in the hospital. ...she may not make it through the weekend. My wife changed plans to head out of town with the kids Saturday now.

I cannot stay until Monday due to work, but I might head out for the day on Sunday...4 hour drive each way.

The real question is what would be an appropriate way for me to comfort or stand by my wife through the trips and possible passing of her grandmother? My wife swears she hates me and will not even let me touch her...makes it hard to console someone.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,605
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,605
I think you answered your own question. You can’t comfort her. She doesn’t want your comfort. If you want to be 100% sure, you could just say: I’m sorry about your grandmother. If there’s anything I can do for you during this difficult time, please let me know. The same kind of thing you might say to a friendly neighbor.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
Tate,

You can comfort her by just saying, "If need a person to talk to, I'm here to listen, I hope your grandmother will be ok". Leave all the negative out of your statement. Dont say, "I know you don't want me to comfort you, but, I will be here if you need me".

Stay on the positive side. She might not want you comfort, but ahe might need it. One way love is developed is being there for a person when they need you there. You can still DB and be there for her.

Dont use this moment as a chance to try and win her back, but as a chance to be a ginuine friend and husband.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Thanks for the help joejoe1 and Gordie. The good news is her grandmother is doing better today.

My W was talking funeral arrangements, etc yesterday. I kindly suggested that she should not get ahead of herself. This seemed to annoy my wife a little, but it nothered me that she was already talking funeral whike her grandmother was fighting for her life. As it is, I am with my W and family now in another city with our relatives. Now that I am here, I will be attending the birthday party at my BIL house. I will steer clear of my BIL, but I really dont know how to respond to him if he talks to me about he and my W. I am annoyed that I am uncomfortable being around my BIL since he is the one misbehaving, so to speak.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
I will be attending the birthday party at my BIL house. I will steer clear of my BIL, but I really dont know how to respond to him if he talks to me about he and my W. I am annoyed that I am uncomfortable being around my BIL since he is the one misbehaving, so to speak.


WTF? Is that what you call an affair......"misbehaving"?

Have you and your sister discussed this? It just seems so inappropriate, to me, for your W to show up at your sister's house. That is blatant disrespect to you, your sister, and the entire family. There is no way I would let OW come into my house if she was having any type of an affair with my H. You should have thought more about protecting your sister and your family. IDK, maybe your sister don't stand up for herself anymore than you do. frown

To your knowledge, your W and BIL are still in an EA. So, let me tell you about EA's. They are much more than misbehaving. They are serious. I would be surprised if they have not been physical with each other, b/c they have carried this on for some time. And every time they see each other or contact each other in any way....it keeps all those affair emotions stirred up. Do you understand what I am saying? Your W cannot return to your sister's house for birthdays or holidays or anything else. Your family cannot pretend this is not going on. Their affair will never die if they continue seeing each other at these family events.

Going to your sister's home with your WW (who is in an affair with your BIL) will never get respect for you.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
Stay the hell away from that house. And keep her children away from there as well. Does the rest of the family know yet? Man it's almost as if you enjoy this level of punishment and disrespect from these two.


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Rest of the family does not know.

Wife will go with or without me...cannot stop her.

My sister believes her husband that he had no idea my wife was on a more serious level. He lied to my sister and told her he thinks of my W as a sister and nothing more. I know better.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Has your W told your sister there is no truth in what you say about her and BIL?

If so, then you have two options, that I see. (1) Live out the rest of your life with a woman who can't stand you, and go to family events and watch her and your BIL make knowingly glances at each other.......and making sure they don't go missing at the same time. This option won't get better, and you will live in a sexless, loveless, and lonely life. Your W and the BIL will continue to feed their affair. He feels safe b/c his poor W believes him......while you feel emotionally emasculated by your WW. (2) Physically separate from your WW. Ask your family to respect you and do not invite her to family events as long as you are separated. Set up children schedule, don't support her, and get a life without her.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Tha family event thing is a sticking point. If my W was having an affair with some random guy, there woukd be absolutely no reason to tell my family.

In this sitch, my sister really did need to know. I did not want to involve my family, but as we see, my W will continue.

Basic resolution of the events thing is that my W and BIL stop all communication and only come to group events including the whole family...nothing over night. The only way to enforce this if my W Nd BIL do not do this is to tell whole family as I see it.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
You don't seem to understand how emotional affairs work.......or else you are in denial. You believe they can show up at the same event and everything will be okay as long as they are not contacting each other in between family events.

If she were an alcoholic, how do you think it would work if she were allowed to drink every time there was a family event? Do you believe she could stay on the wagon?

It's the same with an emotional affair. It is an affair! It is addictive! I don't know anything else to tell you b/c you can't accept the fact that your W cannot continue joining the family events as if there is nothing going on between her and BIL.

The only way I see telling the family might help, is if they agree to not invite the BIL and your W to the events they are hosting. But if they don't understand how EA's are addictive, then they may not cooperate. As for just telling them as a way of shaming the affair partners, I don't see it being very effective. Think it over very carefully before you do it.

Believe me, I know this hurts. I know! It changes everything from the way it once was in your family gatherings. The pain is indescribable. I'm so sorry for you, your sister, and the family. Everyone is affected.

((hugs))


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
I get it...the question is how can I force either one to not show up without telling the whole family what is going on?

Example: My other sister invites my BIL and wife to Thanksgiving dinner. I can tell my W not to go, but sge will still show up. Then what...make a scene? See the problem?...no way to enforce no contact without telling everyone in both families...

Othets have said that I should refuse to show up then...and never see my family?


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Tate
I get it...the question is how can I force either one to not show up without telling the whole family what is going on?


Why are you helping them keep it a secret? I think you need to get to the point where you are just sick and tired of being a doormat, and you just say "enough is enough" and you tell your W that you are done with her and her BS behavior and she is no longer welcome in your life in any way shape or form including going to family events. Then you explain to your family that you and your W are done and you would appreciate it if they no longer invite her to family events since she is no longer a member of the family. It doesn't sound like you are there yet, but just ask yourself if you don't deserve better than this misery.

Your sitch just reminds me so much of TXHubby's and I really agree with Sandi that your W is going to be content to cake-eat while actively engaging in an affair and she will continue it indefinitely, unless she gets the wake-up call that it is all going to come crashing down.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
Tate,

The solution is real simple. Tell the both sides of the family what is going on. Then tell them that you and W are through at this point. And you would appreciate that she not invited to any more family events starting with Thanksgiving. If not you will not be attending.


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
I understand the stance that I should shake up my wifes world to snap her back to reality, but I am certain this would be the end of our marriage for good. As sandi2 has said, this disruption is sure to cause a change, whether for better or worse.

I talked to my sister today to make sure she is not underestimating what has been going on. I reminded her that whatever her husband is telling her, he knew what he was doing was wrong. My sister told me she has set some very strict boundaries on my wifes contact with anyone in her family.

My kids are at their grandparents, and you can cut the tension between my wife and me with a knife...its aweful. My wife just told me she wants to drive separately to Thanksgiving even though we are going to the exact same dinners just so she does not have to be with me for the 8 hours in the car. I told her I wasnt taking a separate car 500 miles to the same events. I happily told her I would just stay home. I can tell she is stumped by this...I was not rude, but she is obviously troubled by me not going.

I know the DB coaches would say to just take a separate car to give her space. I could do that, or I could just not go and let my W explain why I am not there for Thanksgiving.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952
Originally Posted By: Tate
My wife just told me she wants to drive separately to Thanksgiving even though we are going to the exact same dinners just so she does not have to be with me for the 8 hours in the car.


Tate,

There is another option; your wife could ride in the trunk.

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
tate, seriously though, you are worried this would be the end of your marriage for good? You want to be in a marriage right now to a woman who seriously borderlines abusive?

Your M will not be sustainable unless something drastic changes.

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Tate

we know there are counter intuitive parts to this at times, like backing off when you'd rather pursue, etc.

But this is a one of those very clear cases in which your small chance of creating a marriage

(because what you have now is an unsustainable war of attrition that does not benefit ANYONE - which is not a marriage)

is by leaving it in some manner.


You're right, it probably won't work, but its the only chance i see that it might.

Face the brutal truth & not the easy lie.

Your w's behavior is Not the behavior of a w who will return to you under these circumstances.

the reality is that She is gone for all intents and purposes, so let her go & GAL

LET HER FEEL SOME LOSS


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
Originally Posted By: Tate
I understand the stance that I should shake up my wifes world to snap her back to reality, but I am certain this would be the end of our marriage for good. As sandi2 has said, this disruption is sure to cause a change, whether for better or worse.


Are you serious?!? Really?!? Your marriage was over at the instance you caught her foolin' around with another man. There is no way around it. And if you are fooling yourself that you still have a marriage then you are fooling yourself. Big time! It's about time you took your baIIs back from her purse. And I do not mean being a passive aggressive prick. Be a man. Become a man that will not tolerate being disrespected. A woman cannot feel love for someone they don't respect.

And believe me, taking one's baIIs back feels amazing...

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Tate
I understand the stance that I should shake up my wifes world to snap her back to reality, but I am certain this would be the end of our marriage for good.


I mentioned TXHubby, have you read his threads? If not then please do so. His W was actively engaging in an affair and initially he reacted very similar to how you are. All it did was make him miserable. He was trying his hardest to show her what a great homemaker he could be and he put on a happy face and tried to pretend the affair wasn't happening. It went on and on and one day he woke up, miserable at having to face another day, and for maybe the first time since BD realized that HE was the one in control of his life, not his W. He underwent a rapid transformation. The scales fell from his eyes and he saw his W for the lying, cheating POS that she had become. He ceased to care about her. There was no room in his life for a worthless cheater, so he left her to the mess she had created and well and truly got a life. They continued to live under the same roof, but it got to the point where he barely saw her because he was so active in his own life. He quit asking his W where she was going and he quit telling her ANYTHING about his life. Eventually she utterly and completely broke down and -literally- begged him to take her back. But the thing is, he was done and he didn't want her back. The tide shifted and SHE had to do all the work to try and restore the M, which is exactly as it should be with a cheater.

So what I am trying to tell you is that you need to get to that point too, and I think you will. But when you get there, you won't respond with the line above, because you won't care if the M is restored or not. You won't do it to "snap her back to reality", you'll do it to save yourself. And THAT is what might bring her back.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
Tate,

AS, has put it best. When you get to that point, "you won't care if the M is restored or not.". That's a strong position to be in.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Tate
I understand the stance that I should shake up my wifes world to snap her back to reality, but I am certain this would be the end of our marriage for good.

No offense, but in all seriousness, What marriage? What is it about your r with your "wife", makes it a marriage? This is a woman who openly treats you with contempt in front of the children (so there goes the "it's best for the kids to stay together" argument)

and she's broken her vows, AND she's done it with OM who is IN the family so it's not as if future interactions or holidays can ever be the same.

But you guys seem to believe "oh sure they can. You know, like if she doesn't sit next to BIL..."

Easy lies versus brutal truths are the road back to HERE...


As sandi2 has said, this disruption is sure to cause a change, whether for better or worse.

I talked to my sister today to make sure she is not underestimating what has been going on. I reminded her that whatever her husband is telling her, he knew what he was doing was wrong. My sister told me she has set some very strict boundaries on my wifes contact with anyone in her family.



a very strict boundary? How about not within 500 yards of any family member?


My kids are at their grandparents, and you can cut the tension between my wife and me with a knife...its aweful. My wife just told me she wants to drive separately to Thanksgiving even though we are going to the exact same dinners just so she does not have to be with me for the 8 hours in the car. I told her I wasnt taking a separate car 500 miles to the same events. I happily told her I would just stay home. I can tell she is stumped by this...I was not rude, but she is obviously troubled by me not going.


Noooo. This is YOUR family? Why not tell her to take a bus? Or do you (understandably) not want to see the BIL? Even still, you'd send your wife to your sister's house? (if I were your sister I'd say "Thanks, bro, but no thanks").

In your shoes, there's not one family member I'd care LESS to see than your BIL and or your w, for that matter.

This is too Jerry Springer for me. WTF?

Have your own dinner, go out to dinner or literally go volunteer somewhere or eat at a church function. There are a ton around.


I know the DB coaches would say to just take a separate car to give her space. I could do that, or I could just not go and let my W explain why I am not there for Thanksgiving.


Are you SURE that's what the DB coaches would say? I say ASK.

You know it's not as if your wife is saying she wants to make it work AND she sure does not act like it. She treats you horribly.

So, What specifically are we holding onto here?

I adamantly believe the slight chance you have (and there probably is one) of restoring a marriage out of this mess

is by stepping AWAY from it as a family and as a man.

She's walking all over you and that's NOT attractive.

Sorry Tate, I know you're a good guy, but this is nuts. Seriously, too Jerry Springer.

If you could see the forest for the trees, you'd know it is.


GOOD LUCK, truly.

((( )))



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Thanks everyony for the support and advice.

The last few days without the kids home has created a very different environment for me. My W has been staying all dsy at the library...even though she could work at home. I have been restoring my car in the garage until I come into go to bed each night. I do not say a thing to my W. She tells me good night and habe a nice day...I just briefly reciprocate.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
I get it...the question is how can I force either one to not show up without telling the whole family what is going on?


Well, you cannot actually "force" them. If you tell your family the plain truth (and not try to make it sound like it's not really like an affair).......then ask them for their support. These are YOUR family members, not your WW's and BIL's family. It may be too late to do anything before Thanksgiving, and I really don't know the best advice about what to do about tomorrow. Maybe others can tell you.

To clarify what I meant about affecting the family and things not being the same as it once was..........it is NOT b/c you decide to reveal the situation to your family members. It is b/c your wayward W and your wayward BIL are in an affair with each other. When this happens, the family gatherings can never include these two people at the same event.

Yes, I understand very well how devastating it can be on the parents and everyone else. But unfortunately, the two affair partners did not consider anyone else's feelings when they acted on their lustful emotions. And to be frank with you, I suspect they have carried it further. But whether they have slept together or not, they have made their feelings known to each other. And THAT is what makes a big tear in the family being able to carry on as in past times. But guess what? In spite of the raw pain these two people have caused your family......the main family members (parents, siblings, grandchildren) can pull together to support their blood kinship. These are two in-laws who have betrayed their M's and their families. Even if they were loved as much as the blood relatives, they can be excluded. Know what I mean? Blood relatives will always be kin to each other......whether they like one another or never see each other. But it has been my sad experience to see in-laws come and go and be replaced in families.

You have to accept something about this. If by slim chance your M is saved, your W and BIL still cannot attend the same events. Unless you and your W come to an understanding of "why" they can't meet at the same place anymore.......then it won't work. When they see each other, it is like giving a drink to an acholic. The affair will just be covered up and they will continue in it. Do you understand this.......and do you believe it? B/c if you don't believe it, I am wasting my breath.

Why should you stay away from YOUR family, when the waywards have no shame in showing up together for "Thanksgiving"? I'm not sure how to handle tomorrow, but it doesn't seem right that you would miss your family celebration. If you do decide to stay home, then everyone will want to know, and that might be your opportunity to tell them, IDK. You think it will bother the affair partners that you stay home and think they will feel awkward about it? Nope! None whatsoever. Your WW will make up some excuse for your absence, and they will go on with their celebration.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 264
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 264
I just read this thread but I am curious to know more about your sister. It seems she is being cheated on as well. Either as an EA or a PA. It sounds like your sister doesn't believe you? I almost think explaining what is happening to your parents is needed. Surely they wouldn't want to invite two people to a Thanksgiving gathering that are both cheating on their own flesh and blood? But if you haven't had a honest conversation with your sister maybe that is step 1.

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
To Tobias, my W and BIL have been involved in an EA. It is possible they have kissed, etc.

The way I found out about the EA was by stumbling across a journal writing my W left in the drafts folder of our email. This entry said that she had wanted to have sex with him but it never happened...plain as day.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Yes, my W feels awkward at gatherings now...that is why she is so uncomfortable eith the trips to visit my family. See, the thing is that my W has always done more with my family than her own...no pun intended. wink

Aside from her mom, her family is not that into visitors, outings, even holidays. As an example, her sisters will not even drive 2 hours to be together for Thanksgiving.

Losing events with my family is most of my wifes trips to visit relatives.

Now, if my family starts uninviting my W, should I stop visiting her family?


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
Yes, my W feels awkward at gatherings now...that is why she is so uncomfortable eith the trips to visit my family


That's not at all the way it sounded when she was breaking her neck to go to the birthday party, and told you she was going whether you did or not. And now, she wants to take two separate cars to go on an 8 hr trip to the same location.

Quote:
See, the thing is that my W has always done more with my family than her own...no pun intended.


So what? She scr@wed up!

Quote:
Aside from her mom, her family is not that into visitors, outings, even holidays. As an example, her sisters will not even drive 2 hours to be together for Thanksgiving.


So what? She still scr@wed up!

Quote:
Losing events with my family is most of my wifes trips to visit relatives.


So what? She scr@wed up! She thought nothing would change and she could continue her affair and nothing would change.

Quote:
Now, if my family starts uninviting my W, should I stop visiting her family?


Well, you haven't been in an affair with any of her family......so why would you stop (unless you separate). I wouldn't worry about this right now. You just said they aren't too keen about having visitors. Currently, none of this stuff you've written in the previous post should be your primary concern today. Frankly, it sounds as if you are trying to talk your way into doing nothing.

I think the affair partners will be watching to see how you deal with them being together for the family Thanksgiving celebration. Mostly your W will be watching, b/c BIL feels pretty safe with your sister, since he smoothed everything over with her.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 309
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 309
Hi Tate,

I have been reading your posts and hope I have a clear picture.

The way I see it and as many here are trying to put across is what we used to call Man-up, grow a pair, etc ... you get the message ... I hope. To me you seem to be more worried about other people's opinions, feelings or emotions than your own. In all your posts I have yet to perceive that feeling of anger of having your trust humiliated by your W and secondly your BIL. Even more humiliating to me is your BIL's attitude.

I can accept affairs with randoms, they dont know you so there is no face to match with the emotion. Your BIL knows you, is NOT a direct member of the family but still goes ahead and literally p*****es all over you. In other words, he had no fear nor respect for you, does not and until you emotionally make your mark never will.

At this moment he is the Alpha Male to your W and you are a struggling beta male. In this situation you will never get her respect or any hope of regaining her. Even if she breaks off with your BIL she will just fall into the arms of someone else more exciting and emotionally attractive.

Asking for advice on particular situations or even commenting those is OK if the event is recent and the pain still blinds us. I understand from your signature that this has been going on now for quite some time. To be honest though by now you should have implemented some sort of strategy and be seeing it through with some results. Once TG is over what will be the next action that will merit a comment here.

You mentioned you dont mind her calling names but here there is a clear mention about that and non tolerance. Have you heard about boundaries? Are yours round or shaped like a jigsaw piece with each deformation your compromise to someone elses feelings?

You mentioned you commented this to your sister and she sees it differently because she wants to or because she is blind. Who cares. The question is what do you think and how do you feel. Have you gone to their house and told them both straight to get their act together or anything similar? Do you think it is normal for your sister to accept the woman who is having an affair with her husband into her house? I think I know women and they have a keen Ho-dar and know when a woman is trouble. Do you really think it is normal to have your W go to this gathering where milf & cookies will meet?

Remember it is YOUR family not hers and it is your rules. If she had any morality she would not even consider going. If it were a random person you could even swallow your pride and go for appearances but with your BIL and to his house? Where is the logic in that?

I believe you should bring this out into the open. So sh1t hits the fan. So what, right know you are the only one deep in it. I think its time others should be held accountable. Only don't do it expecting sympathy, compassion or understanding. If your sister is keeping it under wraps there could be a good chance she may resent you for it. Your family may also act unexpectedly and as DB says, friends and family are not always the best listeners nor most unbiased companions. So just expect the unexpected and be on your guard.

You need to take that weight off your shoulder, it's drowning you.

You are fighting for a marriage that has been sinking for over 7 years. In 7 years you have not known a clear road ahead with sunny skies to just enjoy. Your emotional life is shot to bits but you wont know what damage you have done to yourself until this is all over. Neither of you are the same people you were years ago so why try and defend a relationship built on the love, hopes and dreams of 2 people that no longer exist is beyond me.

You seem like a nice guy but without character nor personality and that is not attractive. I also think you have not really understood what this site is about or how it works.

You need to really take a look at yourself and find out who you are, fix yourself up and gain inner strength. Don't expect a miracle cure or that this will be over in a short period. Until you dont fix yourself you will be hooked to this website looking for answers to specific battles when you should be planning the whole war or give up and look elsewhere until you find something that gives you what you want and not what you need. Which is OK if they coincide but tbh I think in your case they are yin-yan.

Dont be afraid of hard decisions, they hurt for a reason, they make you stronger and allow you to go directly from A to B and not waffle through c,d,e, etc. They also build up your character.

In short in my opinion (and I know many will disagree) I would drop the bomb over the table and then tuck into the turkey as if nothing. If I was handed your case and you were my avatar I would use that moment to pass the buck onto the others. If after that your W still gets invited to other events and is not a persona non grata then you can realize what a dysfunctional family you have.

I also think (as jimmy cliff sang):

I can see clearly now the rain is gone
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It's gonna be a bright (bright)
Bright (bright) sunshiny day
It's gonna be a bright (bright)
Bright (bright) sunshiny day

Oh, yes I can make it now the pain is gone
All of the bad feelings have disappeared
Here is that rainbow I've been praying for
It's gonna be a bright (bright)
Bright (bright) sunshiny day

Look all around, there's nothing but blue skies
Look straight ahead, there's nothing but blue skies

I can see clearly now the rain is gone
I can see all obstacles in my way
Here is that rainbow I've been praying for
It's gonna be a bright (bright)
Bright (bright)…

Good luck

Peace


M: 50
S: 25

Changing Life
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Wow! I like the way Max talks! smile.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
tate, to give you an idea of what max and sandi are talking about.....

I have a very close family member actively having an affair. She talks about it with me and allows me to pick her mind. She is an alpha female and he is a beta male all the way. What has turned her off about him is his inability to "be a man" She said if he found out about the affair he would probably "ok it" and want o stay married and she said that would be such a turnoff to her. She would want him to be a man about it. Get mad, stand up for himself, not pretend like it isn't happening. What is appealing about the OM to her? She sees him a man.

Of course, I do wholly disagree with the affair, but I think this information is valuable to the LBS.

I hope you begin to regain your self worth and get your balls back!! Your marriage has been over for a long time. You really do have nothing to lose on that front. She has beaten you down so badly. The most valuable thing you can save right now is yourself, and I feel you'll never regret that.

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
Tate,

Have you ever told your W to get out? Have you ever told her you don't want her anymore? It sounds harsh, but the WW response better to strength than weakness. It's time for you to make those hard decisions.

I sat in more car and ran all the scenarios through my mind. From recon to D. I cried it out. I lashed out, all in my car. Than I told myself no more. I made D a possibility. When it came time I had no problem telling my W to get out/leave. I didn't only need her gone, I wanted her gone and she knew it.

Your wife has to know she will lose you, not may lose you, but she will lose you. You have to be willing to walk away, for her to walk towards you again. Don't use walking away as a ploy to get her back, it won't work. She will know if you are bluffing. It's your life and your train, she can ride if she wants but you will longer be stopping at her stop, she is going to have to jump on this train to ride it. And it is not going in her direction, it's going in yours. Her direction is not right for you or your family.

Here's the thing, when your train leave the station, it won't be coming back to pick her up, it's gone forever and she has to know that. Your train your rules. If she chases the train to get a ride, it's your decision to let her on. When she gets on she has to put in the work to stay on your train, she can be booted anytime she isnt acting like a loyal, hardworking passenger.

Full steam ahead Tate!


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
I get the alpha male thing...and Maximus, it looks like you are in a very similar scenario.

Here are the facts that influence my actions:
-wife has been in EA with BIL for 5+ years, no PA
-wife had PA with OM...looks dead now
-wife believes I verbally abused her in the past (see next)
-I was hard to live with due to psychological disorder (OCD)...95 percent better now
-wife tells me she expects me to leave at some point and does not care
-I do not want to split time with kids or lose house
-wife does not want to split time with kids or divorce for this reason
-my sister knows what is going on and has set some boundaries on my wifes interactions with my BIL
-no amount of separation between my W and BIL will keep them from talking to each other...sister will not force BIL to show her phone records.
-I do not want to pay for my W grad school that she started after declaring our marriage dissolved
-wife hides our problems from everyone and puts on a happy couple face

I do not want to move out...I am told this could have negative ramifications should we divorce. I DO want my wife to feel loss by not attending family functions. I DO wish there was a way to force my wife to leave our house.

I was told by DB coaches to NOT inform my family or involve them...including my sister. The only way to exclude my W from family events is to tell my family.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
How did Thanksgiving go?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 309
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 309
Hi Tate,

I understand you may get the A-Male thing" but unless you act on it its no good. I don't see where you get the idea we are in the same boat. My DB time was 2 years ago and since then I try to give back some of the help and lessons learnt from that dark period.

Even then, though some of our behaviour was of the typical LBS, I knew the OM and he knew me and I did confront him and the only thing stopping me from expressing more clearly my disagreement was that owing to work I cannot have a criminal record. If that were not the case he would have a reminder everyday he looked in the mirror.

I do not suggest violence nor do I imply my actions would have been justified nor correct. I am just stating the difference and frame of mind. Believe me, we are on opposite sides of the scale.

FYi One short sentence by Cadet made me realize a lot. OM is a distraction, focus on the relationship. So true. I'll explain why this is important for you later on.

as to your list please note my personal take:
-wife has been in EA with BIL for 5+ years, no PA How do you know
-wife had PA with OM...looks dead now How do you know
-wife believes I verbally abused her in the past (see next)
-I was hard to live with due to psychological disorder (OCD)...95 percent better now She could have a case for you being a lousy husband and wanting out but in no way justifies 3 affairs with a 5 year EPA with BIL. That's not on you but her. The fact you still validate that is mind boggling
-wife tells me she expects me to leave at some point and does not care Why doesn't she leave? After all she is the one finding solace in the bed of every tom, dick (no pun intended) and harry
-I do not want to split time with kids or lose house What options do you have
-wife does not want to split time with kids or divorce for this reason so wife wants you to leave while she maintains EPA, still has house and kids?
-my sister knows what is going on and has set some boundaries on my wifes interactions with my BIL (a) Has she confronted your wife (b) What boundaries has she set? (c) Does she know you set yourself boundaries and cannot project them onto others? (d) Why on your wife's interactions and not her husband's? (e) How successful are those boundaries? (f) What actions will she take if either one crsosses them? (g) How long does she expect to continue putting the boundary instead of understanding it should be her husband who shuts the door on your wife (h) What are you doing?

-no amount of separation between my W and BIL will keep them from talking to each other...sister will not force BIL to show her phone records. How long will you both allow this to go on? What are you going to do?
-I do not want to pay for my W grad school that she started after declaring our marriage dissolved Why is this an issue to bring up in this post?
-wife hides our problems from everyone and puts on a happy couple face When will you stop this façade

I do not want to move out...I am told this could have negative ramifications should we divorce. I DO want my wife to feel loss by not attending family functions. I DO wish there was a way to force my wife to leave our house. Have you tried talking to her calmly and telling her this cant go on and maybe she should leave for the sake of the children and both your sanity? You don't love her and she doesnt love you so maybe you need time away from each other?

I was told by DB coaches to NOT inform my family or involve them...including my sister. The only way to exclude my W from family events is to tell my family. I am not a coach but it does seem strange. Your parents, brothers, cousins and family in general are being ridiculed by their inlaws and their own flesh and blood is being hurt by someone they found on the streets. If the DB coaches believe that the only way to exclude W is telling YOUR family then I would. Be honest, how long are you expecting this to continue?

Going back to the comment by cadet. Your Wife's affairs are a deep rooted problem and you need to win her back if you want her. Concentrating on 3rd parties is not the answer. her reference to your previous character is imho an excuse to hide behind her desire to continue.

If the OM is really dead and BIL disappears, in no time she will find someone else's arms. Anyone's except yours.

If you are willing to listen to the advice here and apply it you will gain a lot, otherwise you will just be spinning.

Peace


M: 50
S: 25

Changing Life
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Great.......great post, Max!


Really want to hear from you, Tate.


Well........this is not a good sign.






Last edited by Cadet; 12/29/17 07:58 PM. Reason: combine posts

It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
I just read the post by Maximus twice...the short response is I have conflicting advice from the DB coaches vs what is recommended on these forums. The one common advice is GAL.

The DB coaches recommend not causing conflicts, treating my W as a house guest, and not telling anyone else what is going on with my W, me, or my BIL. They also recommend spending as much time together as a family as I can.

With that advice, the only way to exclude my W from family events would be to tell my family what is going on ... directly conflicting the DB coach advice.

My W refuses to leave...she has flat out said she hates me but she said she will not break up the family or leave.

My sister has confronted my wife. I talked to my sister after and she would not tell me what she said.

The grad school is an example of my W cake eating...she decided to start the program after BD...and it is costing us $10k/year...money she would not have without me.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Thanksgiving went ok...I did not interact or say anything to my BIL. I could tell he felt uncomfortable.

I do not like that he sat at tge table with me at Thanksgiving.

My Wifes grandmother passed away. I attended the wake and funeral with my family. My wife cried, but I did not console her...I can tell that looked odd to our families...and probably made me look like an a$$ for not consoling my crying wife. But, she hasnt let me touch her for over a year now.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
I do want to clarify that I know the results I want, but am unsure of how to get there.

The result at this point is I want my wife to be excluded from my family events, my sister to stop inviting my wife to her events, and, as a last resort, my wife to move out.

The only way to exclude my W that I can see is to let everyone in my family know whats going on.

My sister invited my wife to go ice skating with her family the day after Christmas as we have done every year...what can I do about that? ...again, I cannot stop my wife from going. I can not attend, but my W will not care, and it willl just cause me to lose time with my kids.

I can ask my wife to move out, but I know she will refuse...then what? ...The only option I can see is to divorce her or for me to move out...I do not want to move out over her.

I have found that through all if this, I have greatly strengthened my relationships with my kids. I have even gotten to the point where I prefer my time with the kids without my W around...any time she is around, she disagrees with everything I say to the kids. Just today, I was wrapping presents with the kids. I asked my daughter to put tge supplies in one room. My W interrupted and told my daughter to set up in another room. I couldnt help myself from calling my W out on it...to which she called me "tacky" across the house.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Tate,

Let’s hypothetically say you file for D. Would spending 50% of your time with the kids having quality, calm, productive time and 50% time alone having quality, calm productive time working on yourself be that bad?

Eventually you would meet someone new who would love and respect you for who you are and not deal with bs you are putting up with right now.

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
LH19, the short answer is for some stupid reason, I still love my wife.

The longer answer is, or maybe it is that I do not want to disrupt my kids lives, that I do not want to throw away all I have worked so hard for, that I do not know...but I do know that I have loved my wife for 25 years.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Good or bad, there was massive change today...

My W stormed in the room, yelling at me for washing jeans with some mystical toxic chemical in them (found in all new jeans) with the towels. I simply responded that the chemicals shoukd wash out and the smell (that I cannot even smell) is likely residual. This escalated things, and off it went...getting quickly to the point of her calling me an a$$, telling me that this is why nobody likes me, that thus is why my life is miserable, while I stayed as calm as possible. I responded that I like my life, my friends like me, and I did not think it was appropriate for her to be telling me what to do.

Then things got especially ugly...I decided, probably against good judgement, to ask her not to attend Christmas with my family. She first responded with a well Im going anyway...they want me there. Heres where I might have gone too far...I very calmly let her know that my family should probably know what has been going on between her and my BIL so they would know why she was uninvited.

My wifes response was at first very angry, but then she told me she was planning on filing for divorce this summer, waiting as to not interrupt the kids lives as much.

My response was a solid, I dont think this is best for the kids, but she is free to do what she wants.

As if this wasnt enough, she left the room, only to come back at least 6 more times to do the "and another thing" comments.

The last time she came in, she settled that she should just tell my family we are having a hard time and bow out of the celebrations...and that I was not invited to her familys celebrations for Christmas.

She threatened several times to tell everyone all the aweful things I have done...I am not even sure what she is talking about....my memory truly is aweful...but that is another story.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
I responded that I have nothing to hide from anyone.

She used that as an opportunity to degrade me telling me that basically everyone loves her and doesnt care about me...referencing several times how I missed many of her trips out of town without me in the past. ..remember tgat she is constantly out of town.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
Tate,

Great job. Keep up the hard work. Things will get worst before they get better. She's trying to scare you into submission. Good job not falling for her tactics. You are a great guy, good job letting her know that.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
I have set up an appointment with a DB coach just to get her view of whats next.

I also started listening to the last resort technique audio seminar for the second time....I wish Michele offered the BD book in audio format. It is much easier to listen to audio while driving to work than to find time to read the book.

Sorry I just sort of trailed off on the post yesterday...I was literally falling asleep writing it (3am ish).

It is scary how quickly my wife turns bitter over the smallest things. It is hard to tell how much of this is from her lack of sleep vs her hatred of me.

I had knots in my stomach all day...I can deal with the idea of not being with my wife, but then I become painfully sad thinking of what could have been for my kids if we do separate.

So, today, I also purposely did not wear my wedding band and left it out very visibly. I stayed late at work, and came home with some spiked eggnog a coworker made. My wife offered to prep some steak for me for dinner. I turned the offer down and got my own dinner.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
Tate, right now your kids are seeing you be degraded and disrespectful. This is your current situation right now. Do you think is better than having separate peaceful time?

I honestly don't know why your DB coach is advising you against telling the family. This isn't some OM from out of no where, this is being deceitful to your whole family. It's causing everyone to live a lie.

I think right now detaching and not taking anything from her or giving anything to her (emotionanally and physically) is your best bet.

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Ginger1...its a very unique and tough situation. The standard thought is do not involve your family for several reasons: if you get back together, your family may hold a grudge...letting family know angers your spouse...and some others.

In my case, with my BIL involved, family events are basically facilitation two family adulterers.

I am meeting with a coach tomorrow...I will update tomorrow night. 3 separate coaches from the DB program and from another one have advised me not to tell my family.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,045
Originally Posted By: Tate
Then things got especially ugly...I decided, probably against good judgement, to ask her not to attend Christmas with my family.


You do see how YOU escalated this situation, right?

In my opinion, the thought wasnt bad. I tend to agree with the rest that if shes in some sort of affair with BIL, then she should absolutely not be at your xmas (or any other family thing).

But when you tack this on to the other thing about the laundry, it becomes less about your principles and the A and more about trying to hurt her. MWD writes a lot about timing. I feel like this was terrible timing. If you dont want her at xmas, then fine. But dont bring this up in a setting where you are already heated about whatever else - you already KNOW that she is going to respond poorly.

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Kaizen, yes I see how I contributed to the escalation. Timing was poor, but I was already thinking of asking her to not attend...this just pushed me over.

I could probably plot a trend of our interaction roller coaster...we tend to have a huge fight every 6 months...usually followed by a buildup of animosity from my wife. Then, following the fight, we get along great for a month...possibly because both of us have argument remorse. For example, the day after this altercation, my wife offered to make me a steak dinner when I came home after her and the kids had eaten.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Short summary of what transpired from my coaching session...

I need to do less of everything. My wife takes advantage of me, and she needs to see how much I do for her. This also includes less interaction with her and less cleaning up of her messes both literally and figuratively.

I need to make decisions based on what is fair and reasonable for me to do as a room mate. This will push my W to pull her weight and be considerate of me.

I need to continue to do what is best for the kids and myself, regardless of how it affects my W. Enjoying time with the kids, etc. The recommendation was to tell my W that it might be best for her to attend my familys Christmas for the sake of the kids.

The coach suspects my W is depressed based on how she operates day to day. I have had a local counselor conclude the same.

I will try to keep posting throughout the holidays.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952
Originally Posted By: Tate
This will push my W to pull her weight and be considerate of me.


There's wishful thinking, and there's wishful thinking. I think this is the latter.

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
So, your coach said the same things we keep saying here......

And the above Doodler posted, he is right. That's an expectation you have. You need to have zero. I wouldn't expect the above to happen at all.

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
I am meeting with a coach tomorrow...I will update tomorrow night. 3 separate coaches from the DB program and from another one have advised me not to tell my family.


So, the recommendation is to act as if nothing is wrong and continue the charade? What does the coach think will finally end the affair that has continued for 5 years? Is this the route you want to take?

Frankly, I do not understand your sister and why she continues inviting your W to other occasions. Has your sister told you why?

What are the ages of your children?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 473
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 473
this is not meant to be a 2x4... this is a message wrapped in barbed wire (as i am rarely the type to deliver a message in cottonballs)... frankly, i am having a hard time believing this is exactly what your coach is advising you... it makes zero sense... i wonder if it's how you are interpreting what your coach is advising you because it allows you to keep things as is--which is one of the worse situations i have come across on these boards...

you will be in this very situation until your wife finishes her graduate program... at that point, if she is ready to get out of this quagmire which is your marriage, she will... if she is content to keep things as is indefinitely, you will be in this same situation for the next two decades... i don't understand why you would want that, but it is clear that you do... you are unwilling to do anything that would bring change to your situation... mis dos centavos--

--artista

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Yes, that is exactly what my coach advised...to have my wife attend Christmas gatherings but steer clear of my BIL. The coaches see it as time as a family.

I think the coaches, like me, are tending to err on the side of caution. My W is at the brink of following through with the divorce, and if the coaches see it the same as me, if she does, there is no chance of recovery. The idea is to save our marriage, not end it.

As it stands, I took the coaches advice. We did Christmas celebrations, and I saw my BIL a total of 2 hours and did not interact with him. We are going ice skating today. The rink is opening later than we expected. My kids wanted to go to their cousins (my BIL) house to play. I told my W I am not going over there, but my sister planned it against my advice. I dropped my wife and kids off and am 15 minutes away typing this in the car. I believe this is putting the three of them in a very uncomfortable situation.

I did not say a word to my wife when dropping them off. I simply made sure she had her cell phone to call for a pick up. I will go ice skating because it is time with my kids and their cousins, but it is unlikely I will even see my BIL.

You might say, he11 no, I wouldn't drop my W off at my BIL. But, you see, she will go with or without me. Me refusing to take them would only result in my W taking her own car to every event in tge future.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,952

If nothing else, you certainly provide plenty of fodder to support your wife's position with regard to the marriage.

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Tate,

If the farmer drives the fox to the hen house and the fox eats the hens, is that on the fox or the farmer?

Come on man! Why and the h$ll would your sister invite her over? What is wrong with you two? I can guarantee your BIL and W are laughing hysterically behind your back!

According to your signature this has been going on for seven years. Something needs to change!

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
Tate,

Wow!!!!!! This is unreal. I don't won't to be to critical. But, why are you worried about taking her or not. If she takes her car why do you care, if you are taking your W and kids to dropped them off and leave anyway.

Do that explanation sound logical to you. If you standing your ground on your morals lead to D, then it needs to happen. Letting your W and BI go on like this is not healthy for you or your family.

And if she goes with or without you, is that RESPECT? Is that the type of M you want? A W that dont care how she is making you feel.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 473
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 473
You and your family share an odd dynamic...I am talking about the family you have with your wife and kids, and your family relationship with your sister... And I bet your wife and brother-in-law think so too... And I would not be surprised if they talk about it... It may even be a reason they connected with each other...

It is also odd to me that your coach is advising you to keep the dysfunction as is because she/he is concerned your wife will file for divorce...

I would not be surprised if your brother-in-law and wife end up together when they are good and ready... And your kids can continue to enjoy their relationship with their cousins, which seems to be what is most important to you... They may even become step-siblings... Imagine that...

Every time I come to read the latest in your situation, I hope to find that you have finally turned over a new leaf... I am thinking that will never happen because you don't care to have a new, better relationship with your WW... You simply hope to hold on to your WW and marriage no matter what... Even if the dynamic is not healthy for any one... Including your children...

Last edited by Cadet; 12/28/17 08:59 AM. Reason: Start a new thread message
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
Trust me, I understand what the consensus is on this forum. I am not trying to do what is easy, but I want desperately to do what is best, no matter how hard.

So why not follow exactly what you all are advising me to do on this forum...two reasons: it is contradictory to what tge coaches are advising, and it often means doing more of the same for my W.

The coaches advise to do everything I can as a family...problem is my W insists on constantly visiting my family. If I do not attend, my W will go anyway. Then, I am doing my own thing...a complaint my W had of me as I historically stayed home often to get work done around the house. My W is more than happy to travel without me...so me excluding myself is exactly what she wants...to be away from me and with our kids. So how does this help me?

I am not trying to pursue my wife, but not pursuing is exactly what she wants.

New case...my W is out of town for final burial of her grandmother. My W and kids want to attend new years party at my other sisters house...my BIL will be there. My Wifes flight will land new years eve, and she wants me to take kids and meet her at the party. If I do not, she will pick the kids up and go anyway, and I spend new years eve without my kids. My W sees this as me not spending time with our family...more of the same, I do not see my kids, and my W is with my BIL anyway. Solution?



To continue...
The coaches advise to be easy to live with, spend time as a family, and do what is reasonable chore and project wise.

Me not attending family events only takes time with my kids away...I cannot stop my W from attending, so then I do not see my kids or my family. My sister is not going to ask her husband to stop attending family events...my BIL says he wants to work on their marriage.

Brainstorming here, but yes, my sister has the most leverage...she can tell her husband, my BIL, to start showing her text and phone records and enforce no communication with my W. I cannot enforce this with my W because she does not care if our marriage continues.

I guess it might have to come fown to my whole family knowing what is going on...then my W will be excluded from my family gatherings. This mass sharing of the affairs goes against everything the DB program and coaches advise...



To answer a couple questions...my kids are 11, 9, 7.

Yes, I am mad my sister keeps inviting my W to her events...I asked her not to, but she continues.

Last edited by Cadet; 12/29/17 07:55 PM. Reason: combine posts

M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,132
Tate,

Have you read "tough love". You need tough love with your W, sister and BIL. You need to create a conflict. You need to approach this situation head on. You need to go to this party call your W, your sister and BIL in a room and let them have it
You are trying to 180 a situation that needs to be broken apart.

I'm confused how you driving your W and kids and dropping them off at your sister and BIL house and leaving is any different then not taking them at all.

Your W is not respecting you. Do you think spending time with your family in this capacity is gaining you any respect from your W.

When your W was making those complaints about you not spending time with the family, was that before or after the A started?

You need to get your respect back worry about your kids then worry about spending time as a family. I don't understand why the coaches are telling you to just keeping going along witb whats currently going on.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
T
Tate Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
On the dropping my W off...the difference is time as a family. A couple weeks ago, my W insisted on taking 2 cars to the same location fir 8 hours of driving. Simply put, we both drove 8 hours, and I drove 8 hours by myself, while my W drove 8 hours with the kids.

On the Christmas trip, my wife suggested we take 2 cars again. I suggested we take one. We had great laughs telling stories during the 8 hours of driving. If I had refused to take my W to my sisters house, that would have stopped one get together with my BIL, but it would end the possibility of us traveling as a family in the future.




I have read most of the book youre referring to...the wuestion is how does stopping get togethers solve anything...and what is the outcome?

My sister is not going to never allow her husband to attend family events, and should things work out with my W, she will need to be able to attend events.

If the affair was with a stranger, then my W could go forever without seeing the OM. ...not the case with my BIL, sister, and me.



Specifically, what recommendations are there for this new years celebration?

I honestly do not want to be out of town again. My wife shared the plans with my kids before talking to me, so they are looking forward to the trip....8 hours of driving for new years with my family. Yes, my W ignores my requests and visits my family...

I am really trying not to tell my family, but it is getting harder and harder to keep it from them...


Last edited by Cadet; 12/29/17 07:56 PM. Reason: combine posts

M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 8
You need to change something... Your W is spitting in your face. I think it is time for $hit to hit the fan. Your W is showing 0 respect to you. 0!!! That $hit needs to change if there is to be any hope of resurrection...

Last edited by Cadet; 12/29/17 07:52 PM. Reason: start a new thread
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
I guess it might have to come fown to my whole family knowing what is going on...then my W will be excluded from my family gatherings. This mass sharing of the affairs goes against everything the DB program and coaches advise...


So what? She should be excluded from family gatherings! My God, she is having an affair with your sister's H! And you were advised to just play along and not cause any waves.......just in case by some miracle she doesn't D you? tired

In her book, Divorce Remedy, MWD writes that if your spouse refuses to end the A, then you need to get a D. If you want me to give you the page number, I'll find it and post it for you.

From what I have heard from other board members, the coaches do give much softer & easier advice to their clients. When I was a wayward wife (like your W), I did not want anyone knowing about my A. When I was new to the board, I fought tooth & nail the advice to expose the spouse's A to anyone......b/c I was thinking from the mindset of the WW. There are very few exceptions I have made........but when it is within a family.....and the WW is threatening you with her plans to continue going to all the family gatherings? Yes, I think they did need to know something very wrong is going on, and you can decide how much to tell them. However, since you and your sister seem to be two peas in a pod in the way you think, maybe the family would not support you, IDK. Maybe they would just turn a blind eye and pretend nothing indecent is happening. I am flabbergasted by both of you, quite frankly. I can see your sister's reasoning for not wanting the rest of the family to know about her H (since she is believing he wants to work on their M), but I cannot understand why she is being so cozy with your WW and inviting her to things. Maybe it's a front, or maybe she thinks it's best to keep her enemy close,.....or maybe she doesn't understand the addition of affairs. But I can tell you that it is not best for your WW and BIL to continue seeing each other at these family events. As long as this A has gone on.....they would have to stop ever seeing each other. And, that's exactly what sticks in your craw.....isn't it? You cannot stand the thought of such a possibility. Sorry, but I doubt that you get it both ways. If you would study about the addiction of affairs, it might open your eyes.

I am not in favor of mass exposure by the H of his adulterous W. I suppose it's b/c it makes him appear very vindictive and wanting to punish her deeply. I also believe he is a protector of her in many ways. However, she removes herself from his umbrella of protection when she blatantly disrespects him....so, there is just so much he can do. Do you know what I mean? In other words, you don't have to expose her to the community. But if words gets around about her and the BIL (b/c she didn't end the A), you probably can't stop it.

Anyway, I don't think I've seen anyone talk about mass exposure to you. If so, I missed it. You wanted advise about what to do before Thanksgiving. We gave it. We gave it from that point till Christmas, even when you stopped updating. I know I was holding my breath to hear something from you, and then you come back sounding angry at the board. We are here to help. If you don't want it, then that's your choice. Everyone here does not agree 100% with each other, and some don't see eye to eye on everything the coaches advise. We don't know what was shared with them, or exactly how they advised you....or what you actually heard. That's just how it is. I'm going to say this, and then I'm probably through giving my two cents worth.

This disrespect is within your M, your sister's M, and within your family. The reason I was suggesting you tell your parents and siblings, was in order for the family to be aware to discontinue inviting your WW to all the events. Her A will not end with the BIL as long as they are meeting at these family gatherings. But, if it's your decision not to share this knowledge with your parents and siblings.....then so be it. At the very least, I think you should inform them that your WW wants to end the M.....and request your family members to support you by discontinuing inviting her to gatherings, until you can explain more at a later time. If the D goes through, then you can explain to your family why you requested they stop inviting her. If your WW doesn't go through with the D, and you can live with the two lovers seeing meeting at family gatherings.....or insist they never see each other again.....that's your choice to live with.

Everyone here is free to make their own decisions.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
Tate,

You seriously need to listen to Sandi. You have been tolerating this behavior and the outcome isn't getting any better. It has actually gotten worse. So its time to change the plan a bit. Your W has no problem laughing and joking with you as long as she benefits in some way. Your W needs to experience some sort of loss and maybe even some shame. Trust me you can not nice your way into making your MR work. My question for you is great about your W that your holding on to?


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 473
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 473
I have said it before... I don't believe this is what his coach is advising him... If that's the case, he should just stop the counseling sessions because he was already doing what he says his coach is advising him... I do not believe it... His sitch is the worse on these boards, and to simply maintain it makes no sense...

Last edited by Cadet; 01/01/18 08:45 AM. Reason: start a new thread
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78


Me-70, D37,S36
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard