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tate, to give you an idea of what max and sandi are talking about.....

I have a very close family member actively having an affair. She talks about it with me and allows me to pick her mind. She is an alpha female and he is a beta male all the way. What has turned her off about him is his inability to "be a man" She said if he found out about the affair he would probably "ok it" and want o stay married and she said that would be such a turnoff to her. She would want him to be a man about it. Get mad, stand up for himself, not pretend like it isn't happening. What is appealing about the OM to her? She sees him a man.

Of course, I do wholly disagree with the affair, but I think this information is valuable to the LBS.

I hope you begin to regain your self worth and get your balls back!! Your marriage has been over for a long time. You really do have nothing to lose on that front. She has beaten you down so badly. The most valuable thing you can save right now is yourself, and I feel you'll never regret that.

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Tate,

Have you ever told your W to get out? Have you ever told her you don't want her anymore? It sounds harsh, but the WW response better to strength than weakness. It's time for you to make those hard decisions.

I sat in more car and ran all the scenarios through my mind. From recon to D. I cried it out. I lashed out, all in my car. Than I told myself no more. I made D a possibility. When it came time I had no problem telling my W to get out/leave. I didn't only need her gone, I wanted her gone and she knew it.

Your wife has to know she will lose you, not may lose you, but she will lose you. You have to be willing to walk away, for her to walk towards you again. Don't use walking away as a ploy to get her back, it won't work. She will know if you are bluffing. It's your life and your train, she can ride if she wants but you will longer be stopping at her stop, she is going to have to jump on this train to ride it. And it is not going in her direction, it's going in yours. Her direction is not right for you or your family.

Here's the thing, when your train leave the station, it won't be coming back to pick her up, it's gone forever and she has to know that. Your train your rules. If she chases the train to get a ride, it's your decision to let her on. When she gets on she has to put in the work to stay on your train, she can be booted anytime she isnt acting like a loyal, hardworking passenger.

Full steam ahead Tate!


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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I get the alpha male thing...and Maximus, it looks like you are in a very similar scenario.

Here are the facts that influence my actions:
-wife has been in EA with BIL for 5+ years, no PA
-wife had PA with OM...looks dead now
-wife believes I verbally abused her in the past (see next)
-I was hard to live with due to psychological disorder (OCD)...95 percent better now
-wife tells me she expects me to leave at some point and does not care
-I do not want to split time with kids or lose house
-wife does not want to split time with kids or divorce for this reason
-my sister knows what is going on and has set some boundaries on my wifes interactions with my BIL
-no amount of separation between my W and BIL will keep them from talking to each other...sister will not force BIL to show her phone records.
-I do not want to pay for my W grad school that she started after declaring our marriage dissolved
-wife hides our problems from everyone and puts on a happy couple face

I do not want to move out...I am told this could have negative ramifications should we divorce. I DO want my wife to feel loss by not attending family functions. I DO wish there was a way to force my wife to leave our house.

I was told by DB coaches to NOT inform my family or involve them...including my sister. The only way to exclude my W from family events is to tell my family.


M 17 years
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How did Thanksgiving go?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Hi Tate,

I understand you may get the A-Male thing" but unless you act on it its no good. I don't see where you get the idea we are in the same boat. My DB time was 2 years ago and since then I try to give back some of the help and lessons learnt from that dark period.

Even then, though some of our behaviour was of the typical LBS, I knew the OM and he knew me and I did confront him and the only thing stopping me from expressing more clearly my disagreement was that owing to work I cannot have a criminal record. If that were not the case he would have a reminder everyday he looked in the mirror.

I do not suggest violence nor do I imply my actions would have been justified nor correct. I am just stating the difference and frame of mind. Believe me, we are on opposite sides of the scale.

FYi One short sentence by Cadet made me realize a lot. OM is a distraction, focus on the relationship. So true. I'll explain why this is important for you later on.

as to your list please note my personal take:
-wife has been in EA with BIL for 5+ years, no PA How do you know
-wife had PA with OM...looks dead now How do you know
-wife believes I verbally abused her in the past (see next)
-I was hard to live with due to psychological disorder (OCD)...95 percent better now She could have a case for you being a lousy husband and wanting out but in no way justifies 3 affairs with a 5 year EPA with BIL. That's not on you but her. The fact you still validate that is mind boggling
-wife tells me she expects me to leave at some point and does not care Why doesn't she leave? After all she is the one finding solace in the bed of every tom, dick (no pun intended) and harry
-I do not want to split time with kids or lose house What options do you have
-wife does not want to split time with kids or divorce for this reason so wife wants you to leave while she maintains EPA, still has house and kids?
-my sister knows what is going on and has set some boundaries on my wifes interactions with my BIL (a) Has she confronted your wife (b) What boundaries has she set? (c) Does she know you set yourself boundaries and cannot project them onto others? (d) Why on your wife's interactions and not her husband's? (e) How successful are those boundaries? (f) What actions will she take if either one crsosses them? (g) How long does she expect to continue putting the boundary instead of understanding it should be her husband who shuts the door on your wife (h) What are you doing?

-no amount of separation between my W and BIL will keep them from talking to each other...sister will not force BIL to show her phone records. How long will you both allow this to go on? What are you going to do?
-I do not want to pay for my W grad school that she started after declaring our marriage dissolved Why is this an issue to bring up in this post?
-wife hides our problems from everyone and puts on a happy couple face When will you stop this façade

I do not want to move out...I am told this could have negative ramifications should we divorce. I DO want my wife to feel loss by not attending family functions. I DO wish there was a way to force my wife to leave our house. Have you tried talking to her calmly and telling her this cant go on and maybe she should leave for the sake of the children and both your sanity? You don't love her and she doesnt love you so maybe you need time away from each other?

I was told by DB coaches to NOT inform my family or involve them...including my sister. The only way to exclude my W from family events is to tell my family. I am not a coach but it does seem strange. Your parents, brothers, cousins and family in general are being ridiculed by their inlaws and their own flesh and blood is being hurt by someone they found on the streets. If the DB coaches believe that the only way to exclude W is telling YOUR family then I would. Be honest, how long are you expecting this to continue?

Going back to the comment by cadet. Your Wife's affairs are a deep rooted problem and you need to win her back if you want her. Concentrating on 3rd parties is not the answer. her reference to your previous character is imho an excuse to hide behind her desire to continue.

If the OM is really dead and BIL disappears, in no time she will find someone else's arms. Anyone's except yours.

If you are willing to listen to the advice here and apply it you will gain a lot, otherwise you will just be spinning.

Peace


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Great.......great post, Max!


Really want to hear from you, Tate.


Well........this is not a good sign.






Last edited by Cadet; 12/29/17 07:58 PM. Reason: combine posts

It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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I just read the post by Maximus twice...the short response is I have conflicting advice from the DB coaches vs what is recommended on these forums. The one common advice is GAL.

The DB coaches recommend not causing conflicts, treating my W as a house guest, and not telling anyone else what is going on with my W, me, or my BIL. They also recommend spending as much time together as a family as I can.

With that advice, the only way to exclude my W from family events would be to tell my family what is going on ... directly conflicting the DB coach advice.

My W refuses to leave...she has flat out said she hates me but she said she will not break up the family or leave.

My sister has confronted my wife. I talked to my sister after and she would not tell me what she said.

The grad school is an example of my W cake eating...she decided to start the program after BD...and it is costing us $10k/year...money she would not have without me.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
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Thanksgiving went ok...I did not interact or say anything to my BIL. I could tell he felt uncomfortable.

I do not like that he sat at tge table with me at Thanksgiving.

My Wifes grandmother passed away. I attended the wake and funeral with my family. My wife cried, but I did not console her...I can tell that looked odd to our families...and probably made me look like an a$$ for not consoling my crying wife. But, she hasnt let me touch her for over a year now.


M 17 years
3 kids
EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 185
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I do want to clarify that I know the results I want, but am unsure of how to get there.

The result at this point is I want my wife to be excluded from my family events, my sister to stop inviting my wife to her events, and, as a last resort, my wife to move out.

The only way to exclude my W that I can see is to let everyone in my family know whats going on.

My sister invited my wife to go ice skating with her family the day after Christmas as we have done every year...what can I do about that? ...again, I cannot stop my wife from going. I can not attend, but my W will not care, and it willl just cause me to lose time with my kids.

I can ask my wife to move out, but I know she will refuse...then what? ...The only option I can see is to divorce her or for me to move out...I do not want to move out over her.

I have found that through all if this, I have greatly strengthened my relationships with my kids. I have even gotten to the point where I prefer my time with the kids without my W around...any time she is around, she disagrees with everything I say to the kids. Just today, I was wrapping presents with the kids. I asked my daughter to put tge supplies in one room. My W interrupted and told my daughter to set up in another room. I couldnt help myself from calling my W out on it...to which she called me "tacky" across the house.


M 17 years
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EA start 2010
ILYBNILWY 1/2014
PA 1/2016
Bomb drop 2/2016
Renig on Bomb drop 4/2016
Living as roommates, EA continues
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Tate,

Let’s hypothetically say you file for D. Would spending 50% of your time with the kids having quality, calm, productive time and 50% time alone having quality, calm productive time working on yourself be that bad?

Eventually you would meet someone new who would love and respect you for who you are and not deal with bs you are putting up with right now.

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