Contact from the dark side.

[Irish M]

Hi Everyone

well I had a super Halloween. My house for the 7th year was a huge hit with the neighborhood kids and adults. Many thanked me for going all out and even had a few families saying they always look forward to my haunted house. The girls stayed with me this year to add to the scares and didn't go trick or treating. No worries, I bought so much candy we are good until Christmas.

for the questions on XW.

Has her physical appearance changed?

I'm also curious as to how she looks.

She actually looked good. Healthy. Same as I remember her prior BD. No shark eyes. A little sad but only when talking about herself. When I mentioned that I too it wasn't easy.And of course the girls had it the worst, she showed no empathy. But I could see the wheels spinning. A part from her tattoos that were visible she looked like she was the same person that I shared 17 years with.

She did glance away when we got into the deep of the conversation and crossed her arms (defensive gesture) a few times.

How did you/do you feel after the meeting?

Please share your thoughts once you've let everything sink in a bit.

I felt weird. 2-1/2 years is a long time. It was like seeing an old friend after so many years and talking like it was yesterday. But at the same time I was having flash backs at the cold faced, dark eyed monster. I wanted so much to dig into her and tell her off.

However I didn't. The compassion side I have for her kept me at bay. I wanted to see where she was with all this. What her plan was. I really want her to connect with the girls. In a healthy way.

I got a text from her. With pictures of her disguised with 2 other woman. She accompanied them out with their little children. Said it was fun and made her think of times we went out with the girls.

I sent her a picture of the girls.


thanks Irish. They look amazing. So scary.

then she replied a question she avoided at our meet up.

You asked me a good question Irish. If one of our girls acted out like I did and did crazy things, or said things that did not make sense. What would I do?

Well I would be the best person she can talk to because I will tell her to love herself, that she will not be any happier and she will only hurt the people she loves and that love her.

Good to know. I hope our girls won't go down that path so it's now we need to educate them and be there for them so they hopefully will have the tools to deal with life. I wish your mom did the same but she was probably unable to help you.

Irish, can i look for a therapist now for me and the girls. I would like you to sit in as well because it will be important we both tell the tale so the therapist can have the whole picture. I really need you to help me.

Lets work on you some more. You are doing great and you can't help others until you help yourself. I hope you understand. I am in your corner. I want the girls to have a healthy mom.

I replied at 8pm. Her last post was 4:59pm. She has the habit still of only texting between 8am and 5pm.


8Am today.

Hi Irish. If we talk today can we only talk about the future. Not the past. What can I get the girls for Christmas? I would like to offer them something. Can you give me ideas?

Hi XW, well Christmas is not far away and I think we need to pace ourselves. I won't be pushing this on the girls. I hope you understand. Call it controlling, I call it protecting. The girls have been through a lot and you tend to not show empathy to what they went through and how they suffered. The past will need to be dealt with one day. Either we talk about it. The girls talk to you about it or in therapy. We can't just jump to a happy reunion. It will bite us in the butt. I won't let them get hopes up either.

I understand Irish. I would do the same. I am working on me. Trying to get past this test or whatever it is. I feel life threw me into a bad place and I am fighting to get out. But I understand you protecting them.


I will ask my therapist tonight what he thinks is good. If I need to wait some more before seeing the girls. When I do see them they need to respect me and not yell or call me names.

She is so afraid of confronting them. Disgruntle teens will give it to her. I know my girls. They have strong characters and wont let her twist the story. She needs to be open to that before they meet.

Can I give you money so you can buy them something. Don't tell them its from me. this way I feel like I am part of their Christmas.


I have a question for you. Would you like to be bought. Gifts, money. The girls don't care about gifts. The cared about you. The best gift you can give them is what you are doing now. Working on yourself.

You are right. I would never want to be bought into someones life. Thanks

I will ask my therapist if he wants to see you. Would you be open to seeing him. Not at the same time as me. But separate so you can tell him you side. Fill in the blanks. Also, I have a question for you. What will it take you to trust me. To convince the girls to see me?

that last message was at 4:59pm. I figure no point in answering. I will reply at 8:01am.

it is getting interesting. At the same time I don't see her compassion for the damage she caused. Still about her. Still doesn't ask how they are. So I will continue this as long as I see progress with her therapy. Don't get me wrong. I see a lot of positive. Just not there yet.

have a good night.

Irish

[Lifes Twists]

Hi Irish,

You may never see the compassion for the damage she caused that you are looking for. I am going on 2-1/2 years since my ex started to poke her head out like yours is. Unfortunately this part of the marathon we are on seems like it will be the longer part.

My advice is that you shouldn't set goals that are unattainable for your ex. Given your daughters ages, I would consider talking with them and feeling out what they would want to see before they would be comfortable seeing their mother. They may at first come up with crazy expectations but you can help to guide them. Use it as a teaching moment and help them to develop empathy and compassion.

Your ex may never be the mom your girls knew again. My oldest told me the other day that mom is not the mom she remembers growing up. help your daughters to understand that their mother is ill. That she may never be the same as she was.

helping your daughters to grow and sharing with them your compassion will pay off in spades.

[peacetoday]

She sounds like she is making progress

Only thing is OM..If he is as unhealthy as you thought and she stays with him
It will have to effect her as well.

.I definitely would not want my kids around anyone of influence like a parent or AF if there were drugs involved and even if they are sober
it is a slippery slope
I would address the drug issue and OM with the therapist before a meeting with girls and set a boundary if possible
It may get her to sober up/leave him if it means her R with the girls
Just my opinion. because you say she texts 8-5 only so is he still in picture
unless he is in therapy also to heal his wounds, he is still a problem

[Sotto]

Hi Irish, there is a little more sustained and thoughtful contact for sure. I'm also conscious she was very recently saying she wouldn't see them until they were 30/I didn't cheat/oh I did...and so on. Still flip flopping quite a bit and only recently in therapy - but good that she has decided to choose therapy.

I fully agree with Peace about OM and I would share that with the counsellor if you agree to see them. Also, was your XW potentially using too Irish? I can't recall without reading back..??

I think supporting any reconnection at the right time is the right thing to do. But I also think you may be in for the long haul here, with some dips and turns. What kind of boundaries you set on the contact from your XW are up to you. How unsettling is it for you with her texts pinging in and awaiting a response? The best thing I ever did was take the email account of mine (that XH used to comm with me) off my phone. I realised I was living life on eggshells expecting the next instalment at any moment.

After this, I felt such a weight lift as I only accessed my emails at home and at a time to suit me. He couldn't reach me the whole time, only at a time of my choice. Maybe you could deal with her comms at 6pm and have a little break until morning

Anyway, I'm glad for you all if your XW manages to reconnect with her daughters in a way that is healing for everyone - and I'm sure you will be glad in years to come that you supported this too...

Take care Irish and hope there's something useful here for you!

Xx

[CaliGuy]

Irish

Man this to me is just fascinating. I recall back in 2015 when mine was poking out a bit I really wish I had the patience you are showing here, putting the girls first and foremost and also calling things out as you have, she is so eager to jump right back and be 'mom' all the sudden and you wisely are articulating caution as you should not only for the girls but for her as well. Hats off to how you are handling this all there is so much people can and should take from these exchanges.

The MLC tone is still there with her, the fear of begin judged and called out on her chit by the girls seems to be the flagship as I would assume it to be. She overcame that same fear with you ... the girls I guess will be a bit different and she will need to become a bit more healthy to take that on, you see it and have expressed that very well back to her in a non-judgemental way.

[Irish M]

My advice is that you shouldn't set goals that are unattainable for your ex. Given your daughters ages, I would consider talking with them and feeling out what they would want to see before they would be comfortable seeing their mother. They may at first come up with crazy expectations but you can help to guide them. Use it as a teaching moment and help them to develop empathy and compassion.

Hi LT,
yes we have had this conversation. D17 right now expects her mom back like she was before she left. D15 wants just to see her ask about them . About her health. They see no love in her messages.
You are right about maybe never seeing that empathy. Time will tell. We are not in a rush.

I would address the drug issue and OM with the therapist before a meeting with girls and set a boundary if possible
It may get her to sober up/leave him if it means her R with the girls
Just my opinion. because you say she texts 8-5 only so is he still in picture
unless he is in therapy also to heal his wounds, he is still a problem

Hi Peace, yes he is still in the picture. Has a huge influence on her based on my last 2 days communicating with her. Until she escapes that grasp she cant move forward.

I'm also conscious she was very recently saying she wouldn't see them until they were 30/I didn't cheat/oh I did...and so on. Still flip flopping quite a bit and only recently in therapy - but good that she has decided to choose therapy.

I fully agree with Peace about OM and I would share that with the counsellor if you agree to see them. Also, was your XW potentially using too Irish? I can't recall without reading back..??

Hi Sotto,
Yes a lot of flip flopping. This is the longest we have been communicating since the beginning of this. She seems to be telling the truth but I catch her a few times slipping into lies. So I hope she continues her navigation to the light through therapy. On her drug use, Before BD, she only tried pot once with me at a party. Before having kids. Hated it. She was up to a month before BD on neighborhood watch , keeping an eye on the park near our home. Kids smoking up and such.

The MLC tone is still there with her, the fear of begin judged and called out on her chit by the girls seems to be the flagship as I would assume it to be. She overcame that same fear with you ... the girls I guess will be a bit different and she will need to become a bit more healthy to take that on, you see it and have expressed that very well back to her in a non-judgemental way.

Hey Cali,
Yes MLC tone very present. She seems to accept my remarks and quickly agrees or appologizes. The girls however she made it clear that they are not to raise their voice, call her out on anything or talk down to her.
So like you said, she needs to be a bit more healthy.

So FDriday Morning. Just after 8am lick clockwork.

Hi Irish :-)

Saw my therapist and he is open to seeing you . We can’t see him together as he is not a couple therapist . That takes a special training . We can find another therapist to handle us together

We don’t need a couple therapist . I would assist in any therapy for you and the girls . First for you to help you get through this


Just after lunch

I’m Looking to buy a house in 5 years
I have 2 more years to clear my bankruptcy then I’ll save for a house .
I have a plan. I have repairs to do on my car but no money. I'm still driving the same car. I'll need to get a new one, one day.

That’s great.
Would be nice closer to our town so the girls can see you more when ready.


I will see them Irish. I know I’m a good mom and I will sacrifice anything to have them in my life. I need to be a mom again.

I hate when people ask if I have kids and I need to lie or make up a story. It's killing me inside


Well I’m sorry that must be tough.


You know Irish, if we do go the therapy I hope we talk openly and work together.


I am open to therapy to help you and co-parenting. I get the feeling you are pushing couple therapy. We are not doing that


Then then mood changed

Irish , my therapist told me communication is important and I need to ask or say what I feel

What is it you want me to do or the girls need me to do . I do have limitations though

I can’t tell you what to do or what not to do. It needs to come from you. Your action.And besides you are an adult.


Irish tell me. I can’t understand what they want.

You can ask them.You have their emails.

I need you to help me .


Well I’ll be honest with you then. They won’t go to your town or deal with OM. You with OM is a big issue. They don't respect him and don't respect you for being with him.

Both are a major trigger

I see , so you are not over me yet. OM bothers you. You can’t accept him so the girls won’t accept him. Irish, I am no way moving back to your town or leaving OM


Well then I can’t help you. You say you want the girls back at any cost.
They want you not the enablers


I can have his teeth fixed. Maybe that’s what bothers them?


Him or another guy it makes no difference

You left them for those things. Put the girls last. During the hardest part of their lives. They don't want gifts, they don't want money.
They want a healthy mom


You are a broken man Irish. I see that it’s ok that you have a GF. But I can’t have a BF.

You are jealous lol. Now you manipulate the girls to not like him. You will never change Irish.


XW... Stop


You don’t truly see what you did. The effects it has caused


I don’t feel broken. I actually am happy where I am. I am raising 2 beautiful girls that are smart, stable, in school, not rebellious or acting out. Loving and make me smile every day.

I have a great career and yes I started seeing someone. After A YEAR of healing. And several months after that I introduced the girls. She respects me and I respect her. We are not moving in together. And no tattoos to represent our union. She respects the girls and that is the only thing that matters. Where it goes time will tell. I'm not in a rush.


I think we need to step back again and let you work on you.

I would of loved to help you but I think everything was going too fast.

Have a good weekend


interesting but what i get from it is she was trying to slip through me so I will convince or push the girls She can't act sane. They girls are aware of come of the conversation. I won;t tell them that their mother still chooses OM over them. XW is still deep in it. No point upsetting the girls.

hope you are all enjoying your weekend. Last message I sent was 4:49pm, Who wants to bet I get one back only on Monday after 8am.

Should I only reply after 5pm? and on weekends?

[bttrfly]

Per Eew: I see , so you are not over me yet. OM bothers you. You can’t accept him so the girls won’t accept him. Irish, I am no way moving back to your town or leaving OM


Per Eew: You are a broken man Irish. I see that it’s ok that you have a GF. But I can’t have a BF.

You are jealous lol. Now you manipulate the girls to not like him. You will never change Irish.



-----

Can you see she is projecting herself onto you in both these quotes?

xoxoxo

[Sotto]

Hi Irish, FWIW I think you may be engaging with her too much here. I would step right back and give yourself a break. And if she contacts you again, just let her know - I need a break from this contact XW. I wish you well and hope you continue with the support you are getting now. Best wishes Irish

Or something along those lines. I think the comms you are having may be going around in circles and she clearly isn't ready to give up OM which is also a deal breaker for you guys...

JMHO of course and I hope others weigh in with some helpful input for you xx

[job]

She clearly isn't well enough to have a good conversation with. She's looping over and over again and is projecting on to you what may be within her or what she thinks her therapist has told her. Time to step back a bit and allow her messages to sit for a day or so before responding back to her.

She has brought up a couple of times about her financial situation, i.e., the car especially. Maybe she's hoping that you'll offer to assist her in repairing the car or giving her a loan, i.e., so that she can come see the girls. The car issue, to me, sounds like a poor excuse not to visit w/the girls...but that's my personal opinion.

She is still not ready to look in the mirror and state "I have issues that I need to resolve and I need to own my part in the break up of my marriage and the distance between my girls." Until she does this, she's not well enough to see them. The girls are smart enough to figure things out and they do not want to be around those people who have enabled her.

Snip the loop and I agree w/what Sotto and Bttrfly have written. You do not need to hear her projections.

[peacetoday]

I agree with Sotto

You gave her the truth..She says she is NOT giving OM up and you as a wise parent with full custody rights can choose to not want a drug addicted /lowlife OM around your girls
What is the hold he has on her?
Maybe if you cut contact for a while, the pain will wake her up
she wants you to help her to get the girls to accept her lifestyle and she can't see that her lifestyle is not healthy if she is dating a drug addict

I also saw that with my XH who M a psychopath /addict
I never regret for a minute pushing XH out of our business and our lives as he clearly choose drugs/ow over everything and he gave up a lot to live in poverty with OW

She is in a good spot right now with her therapy and this boost of reality may help
her see she can't be the great mom she wants to while with OM

I have high hopes for her