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sandi2 #2765638 10/17/17 11:24 AM
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Sorry Sandi, \
Yes, she know that i am aware of what her walk time is actually for. sometimes i go to the little country store to get something and actually pass her while she is on the phone with him. She actually tries to wave at me but i look straight ahead and keep going. The urge to stop get the phone and throw it in the woods is strong at those time i must admit. When i came back it was decided to have separate rooms. Other than that nothing was discussed with the exception of her not contacting him while in the house. Finances are now used by both oof us to pay bills and buy groceries for everyone. no formal separation rules were discussed. honestly, we both live just like it used to be before the Affair, except we do not sleep in the same bed.


M 51 W 46
D14 S13
M 16yrs
T17yrs
BD 06/25/17
OM Confirmed 06/25/17, ILYBNILWY
Did Sep for 1 month, moved back in due to W Finances
CW2017 #2765696 10/18/17 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Sorry to butt in Sandi but is it possible to adopt a tweaked version of your advice to gw for my sitch wherein I have the normality at home but it is essentially different because my wife is here? I still have an enhanced relationship (in all departments) yet there is clearly cake eating going on


Well, I'm flattered you've asked, but I don't know that I have the answer you want. Here is how I would look at yours and Gw's situation and the options. Both of the WW's are living double lives. GW knows his W is still nurturing her A by contact with the OM. Your W continues to work with her OM at the same place of employment. Both WW's want to maintain a comfortable environment at home (normalizing), without ending contact with OM.

Consider the three most common options below:

Option 1:
You do not focus on the third person (elephant in the room) and you focus on becoming a man only a fool would leave. You work on improving your personality, charm, confidence, male attraction, etc. You GAL, 180, add mystery, etc. You maintain a friendly, pressure-free R with your W. Basically, you are trying to show her a better you and the possibility of a better R.

Option 2:
Set boundary, " I will not emotionally and intimately engage in a MR that has a third person on the sidelines". Then, you completely detach and live your life the way you want....you make daily decisions without any emotional attachment to her. You GAL for real. It has to be more than just going to the gym. Fill your calendar with GAL activities you enjoy, and that gets you around other people. Don't engage with your W (outside of kid or business related), b\c you are not interested in her daily life....unless she decides to end all sources of contact with the OM. Until then, you have nothing to discuss. In other words, you let her go. No more "soulmate" type of relationship with her, no physical affection, no intimacy, no family activities, etc.

Option 3:
The hard line approach: Set boundary, "I will not stay in a M of three people", and prepare to end the M. Contact a lawyer for legal advice about physically separating, financial protection, etc. Do not wait around to see if she ends the affair. She has to choose her husband and MR......or her job and OM.

Much more could be added to these options, but this is the general idea. Each person has to decide which option is for them. I have my opinion of what works, and someone else may have a different viewpoint.

As for "tweaking" my advice about your situation......
This has been going on for almost a year, right? Speaking as a former WW, I think she could continue the affair indefinitely.....if nothing happens to cause her to make the decision to end it. After the MC released you (knowing there was an active A?), your W thought telling you that she was trying to pull back from OM.... would be enough to justify them working together. People in an affair cannot work at the same place! It has been tried many times, and guess who loses? The way to end an affair is by sudden death. If she hears him talki ng from another office cubical or she sees him walking across the parking lot.....it sparks that need to talk to him or stand closer, get him behind closed doors, etc.

As long as she has both worlds (both men), I don't think she will be motivated to change her actions. That's just my opinion.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2765699 10/18/17 05:41 AM
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Sandi,

Which option is the choice you would make?


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
Tread #2765702 10/18/17 05:55 AM
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I think Sandi's three options are more like stages. It's really hard to start at 3, so I'd guess most people start at 1. Actually let's not forget stage 0, which is the begging and moping after BD. You'll stay at each stage until you can no longer deal with the pain, uncertainty, and limbo, then you'll move on to the next.

Sandi, I'd love to get your opinion again on my crazy sitch, if you can spare some time.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
Holding #2765703 10/18/17 06:02 AM
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Holding,

I believe you're correct about stages. Personally have hit everyone of this points and currently at #3. Life phases of the LBS.


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
Tread #2765706 10/18/17 06:31 AM
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I am a big believer (even though at many points I have not been an effective practitioner) of what Sandi2 preaches WRT WWs.

There is one thing, however, that I believe most strongly and that I will say about the "lifecycle" of an affair: The more intimate it becomes (generally speaking, the longer it goes on) the harder it gets to "end", and without an end to the affair, your marriage has no chance.

This implies a pretty difficult sitch for most LBS's, in that, when they first find out, often when the A is in the early stages, they are ill-equipped emotionally to take the steps (options two and particularly three listed by Sandi2, above) that might have some hope of bringing about an end to the affair and jarring their WW's back to their senses.

I have seen this progression first hand in my own sitch-- the conversations I overheard between my W and OM on the day I consider "BD", was a completely different animal than the last conversation I heard them engaged in, which was after I wised up to the degree the affair was still active, started checking up on her, and ultimately insisted that either the affair or the marriage end. The difference was that of a "flirty/friendly/we're maybe toying with the idea a full-blown relationship" conversation from a "I want to jump on you and run away with you and can't stand being apart from you" conversation. It has been MUCH harder for my W to take the steps to "recover" from the A and distance herself from the OM as a result of it reaching that point. How do I know? Because early on she did distance herself from the OM, in the immediate aftermath of BD, and did so without a huge degree of misery/moodiness/poutiness, etc. I however, had not set any boundaries, and was too busy appeasing and playing MNG to take the steps to try to keep her honest. Her bff, friends with the OM, fairly quickly got her back "out" into the social circles and scene frequented by OM and they eventually hooked back up.

I firmly believe had I at that time (BD) been the man I am today and had I established those boundaries and insisted on no contact (as well as confronting OM which I did NOT do at that time primarily because W asked me not to) that the A very likely would have ended at that point, and that W and I would be significantly further down the road toward... wherever we are going. I do understand that my wife's waywardness would still have to have been addressed, but had I acted then instead of four to five months later, she would have gone through that cycle much sooner AND have had somewhat less strong feelings about OM to get herself over. There are studies that bear this out, that the more intimate an affair becomes and the longer it goes on the harder it can be to "break", in case you are wondering. I am a firm believer, as I believe Sandi is, that if LBH's acted as soon as the bomb dropped and put their foot down and established firm boundaries, sometimes to the point of "putting your W out of the house/MBR", then they would, on balance, reach resolution in their MR's much earlier and with a greater chance of reconciliation. (Sandi can smack me upside the head, here, if I misrepresent her opinion on this.)

If you can end the A in the early stages, IMO you absolutely have GOT to try to do so and cannot let your W continue to carry it on unopposed.


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
hoosjim #2765708 10/18/17 06:47 AM
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Now we have been told all this time. That when then a is long term, then it burns itself out the more they get tobknow each other. Most of us pushed for then a to end early and just made the two closer.


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
Tread #2765714 10/18/17 07:12 AM
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Quote:
That when then a is long term, then it burns itself out the more they get tobknow each other. Most of us pushed for then a to end early and just made the two closer.


There is a difference between merely "pushing for the A to end" and taking a strong stand for yourself without regard for whether or not the A ends-- you simply make it clear you refuse to live in a marriage of three. This significantly increases the chances that a WW will be "jarred" into ending the affair, but certainly does not guarantee it. If it doesn't, you don't keep pushing/nagging/complaining/crying about it... you merely go about your business becoming the best "you" you can be... and prohibiting your cheater W from being a part of it. Sometimes A's do continue and do need to "die of natural causes", but I firmly believe you increase the chances of a successful/happy outcome (whether that outcome is just you on your own or you reconciled with your wife) if you early on establish firm boundaries and don't let yourself be (or be viewed as) a doormat.

Nor is this inconsistent with DB-ing. Sandi2 does a much better job of explaining/reconciling her views with DB-ing than I ever could. Read through some of her threads.

Especially if she "knows you know", a truly "Wayward" wife is never going to return to you if you don't earn her respect. And she will never respect you if she knows you are letting or even encouraging/enabling her to run around with another man.


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
sandi2 #2765722 10/18/17 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Well, I'm flattered you've asked, but I don't know that I have the answer you want. Here is how I would look at yours and Gw's situation and the options. Both of the WW's are living double lives. GW knows his W is still nurturing her A by contact with the OM. Your W continues to work with her OM at the same place of employment. Both WW's want to maintain a comfortable environment at home (normalizing), without ending contact with OM.

Consider the three most common options below:

Option 1:
You do not focus on the third person (elephant in the room) and you focus on becoming a man only a fool would leave. You work on improving your personality, charm, confidence, male attraction, etc. You GAL, 180, add mystery, etc. You maintain a friendly, pressure-free R with your W. Basically, you are trying to show her a better you and the possibility of a better R.

I guess this is a pretty good descriptor of the current situation. But with option 2,

Originally Posted By: sandi2
Option 2:
Set boundary, " I will not emotionally and intimately engage in a MR that has a third person on the sidelines". Then, you completely detach and live your life the way you want....you make daily decisions without any emotional attachment to her. You GAL for real.

I certainly used that language in the second confrontation in June which sufficiently scared her, believe me. But I guess because she showed so much regret (remorse?) and so readily agreed to MC I sort of backed off a bit.

Originally Posted By: sandi2
As for "tweaking" my advice about your situation......
This has been going on for almost a year, right? Speaking as a former WW, I think she could continue the affair indefinitely.....if nothing happens to cause her to make the decision to end it. After the MC released you (knowing there was an active A?), your W thought telling you that she was trying to pull back from OM.... would be enough to justify them working together. People in an affair cannot work at the same place! It has been tried many times, and guess who loses? The way to end an affair is by sudden death. If she hears him talki ng from another office cubical or she sees him walking across the parking lot.....it sparks that need to talk to him or stand closer, get him behind closed doors, etc.

As long as she has both worlds (both men), I don't think she will be motivated to change her actions. That's just my opinion.

your insight is marvellous, once again. I have no idea what my W said to the MC in her private sessions but clearly the MC was happy enough to discharge us on the proviso that we "talked more". Not so easy with a rug sweeping cake eater I guess! I would imagine we are back at stage 1 out of the 3 because I am happy enough (in myself etc.) to mentally detach myself from the situation whilst living under the same roof, consciously improving myself (but not necessarily "nicing" her). This would change with any subsequent BD with moving straight into 2/3 (think I'm mentally ready for this now) especially as I have a fully briefed lawyer who is ready to go (she was the one in fact who pushed me to go the MC) and also spelled out everything for me.

thank you once again


Me 55, W 50
D 8
M 20
T 27
MIL w/ us
BD 01/02/17
workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA)
OM senior manager, long term W, child 14
now: limbo (my choice)

"Don't care what you may do, we got that attitude!" - Bad Brains
Holding #2765748 10/18/17 03:17 PM
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Quote:
I think Sandi's three options are more like stages. It's really hard to start at 3, so I'd guess most people start at 1. Actually let's not forget stage 0, which is the begging and moping after BD.


Very interesting! I never thought about them being stages of the LBH. In fact, I had first switched positions of #1 and #3. I was not thinking of using all three, but rather choose one option. But your observation is interesting, and I agree most new arrivals on the board is going to use No. 1, and if he starts getting fed up..... then they resort to No. 2. No. 3 is usually chosen when his situation becomes so unbearable and the W is threatening D, anyway.

Actually, it was not my intentions to use them as steps, but rather decide which option to use from this point forward, until she ends the affair, and commits to do the necessary work to save the M.

To answer which one I would personally choose......of course, I would use the hard line approach, which is No. 3. My reason is b\c the few WW's that came to the board wanting to save their M, confessed that her H left her, immediately upon learning she would not end contacting OM. They all said that that action killed her interest for OM. It also piqued her interest in the LBH. In short, if the LBH plays things right, her focus leaves OM and it's placed on her H and winning him back into the M.

As TxHubby said, she can nearly have a miraculous recovery from waywardness\MLC. smile. In order to be successful in her ending all contact with OM, the H would need to follow through with option 1 immediately upon learning she is cheating and does not want to save the M. The longer he waits around to see if she ends the affair, the more respect he loses.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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