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Hi Everyone,

This is my first time posting. I was looking for an online community and am happy to find this one. I bought the DB book a few years ago and it made a difference in my situation. It seems like a lot of online groups just go straight to telling each other to end their marriages but here it looks like there's more analysis and support.

My situation is a bit different than many of yours because I married a guy from the Middle East and I'm originally from the US. There are cultural and religious differences. I sponsored my husband's visa to come here and supported him initially until he started his career. My husband came from a repressed and dysfunctional society although he adjusted quickly here and embraced his American freedom.

We married nine years ago after knowing each other for almost two years before marriage. For the first five or six years (before and during marriage) we had a wonderful relationship. We met in our late twenties and supported each other in our careers, were accepted by each other's families, and had many mutual friends. It seemed like our days were filled with love and laughter.

The only sign that something was wrong was my husband's questionable communications with an ex-girlfriend and e-mails and text messages I found where he was asking women for coffee or just generally being in touch with women I didn't know, who he didn't mention. There was no sign a full affair, but eventually I confronted him about his ex-girlfriend and he was really upset that I had discovered it and broke his trust. I felt he'd broken my trust by not disclosing the communication and he felt he was entitled to talk to her. We went to marriage counseling and the situation got somewhat resolved.

Our days were still, for the most part, good for a long period of time. Then my husband was accepted into a program in another city and we moved for the first time. Within a few weeks of moving my husband was going out alone, with new friends, and drinking alcohol which he hadn't done before. I saw from our shared phone bill many text messages to a number that I checked online and found it was a woman. He totally changed - he would come and go and say it was none of my business where he was. He'd stay out all night and wouldn't answer his phone. He said he wanted to move out but didn't find a place that he liked so for weeks we were still living together under these conditions.

I was so confused and shocked I could barely think at that time. I was frozen. It was like my husband changed overnight. Then, as quickly as it happened, he came back one day, apologized deeply for everything and said he loved me and wanted to work things out. We moved to another city and everything became great and normal again.

We had a child and went through a time when we were both pushed to our limits trying to survive caring for our child and the stress of our careers. About 1.5 years after having our child we were supposed to go on vacation and my husband said he wanted to go alone. We had already booked our plans months earlier so I said that would be difficult, so he came. But clearly something was wrong. When we returned he went away for a weekend and then I found out he had both a girlfriend in the city where we lived and he drove far away to visit his ex-girlfriend. At the same time he was on many dating sites. He announced he was moving out and felt nothing for me anymore.

Suddenly I was alone with a baby while my husband was out enjoying his freedom with all the women he was dating. It was the worst time of my life. That's when I bought some books, including the DB book, because I felt we were headed towards divorce but I also couldn't process how I'd survive or how it could end that way. My husband had been so great. I went to a counselor who said he see's this often when people have kids and that my husband would be back, but I'd have to decide the rules when he returns.

I didn't cut-off contact with my husband but amidst the tears and weight loss I pretended we were having fun when he called or visited and within a very short time, just a few weeks, my husband sounded very depressed and sad. After eight weeks he came home one night saying he was so depressed, he was so sorry, he couldn't live without his family, and he just wanted to come home. I told him we'd have to do a lot of work to fix what would happened if he came back. He said yes, he agreed, but he needed to do x, y, and z for his career in order to salvage it and then we'd focus on fixing things. I agreed to be just roommates until that happened.

Somehow the roommate situation lasted over a year and every month or so I'd go to my husband's room and ask if we could talk about a plan to fix things or end living together. He'd always stare blankly at the wall. When I pushed too much he'd say "don't make me angry, leave me alone, etc.."

Finally I got him to see a psychologist alone. He didn't say much about it. I went to the same psychologist separately and the psychologist said my husband accepted blame for what he'd done, spoke highly of me, but doesn't know what he wants or where he's headed in life.

I asked my husband to return to the psychologist again and after the second time he came home that night and said he wanted to live separately again to "find himself" and to see if he's miserable because of me or because of a problem with himself. Who knows if that's true of if there's just another woman in his life, but on September 1st we moved to separate places.

At first he was coming over every day. He did many nice things for me which he hadn't done in years, including cleaning out my car, buying supplies for my new apartment, setting stuff up, and paying for everything. He would call and come over like everything was normal, but it wasn't. I found my daughter and I were always waiting for him to come and then sometimes he'd be busy and wouldn't come. I realized quickly that this had to stop. As the psychologist said, my husband would take the path of least resistance and enjoyed "having his cake and eating it too." The psychologist suggested becoming more independent and said that'd be best for me and for helping my husband be attracted to me again if that were ever to happen.

I had kind of forgotten about DB and the 180 rule until finding this website and forum, but it made sense as I drafted a separation agreement for my husband to sign which said we'd only talk about financial issues and issues related to our child. He signed it and now he comes three nights per week to take our child out. This has been the situation for two weeks now.

When my husband comes he asks how I'm doing and tries to talk but I just give short answers and don't really express any emotion. I haven't contacted him at all aside to confirm the time he's coming for our child.

I forgot to mention that my husband has said many things since moving out like "let me finish the house (that he started building for us) and we'll have a serious conversation about fixing things" or "let us have six months apart to save our marriage." He also offered for us to move back in with him to see for ourselves that he's not dating anyone else.

I don't know. I guess what I'm wondering is whether this new effort to cut off contact is appropriate for our situation? It seems like there have to be boundaries but sometimes it feels like it's just expediting the process of ending the marriage rather than creating an opportunity to save it. So far in the last two weeks my husband hasn't said anything new about trying to work things out.

I'm sure the easiest thing to do is consider the marriage to be over and move on. The hardest part though is that my husband does seem to be going through a phase of being lost, like a mid-life crisis, and it still seems like he'll snap back at some point. I still remember our happy times and it's so hard to move on.

I'd appreciate any input and I'll reach out to other members and respond to their posts about their situations too. I look forward to contributing here!

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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Hi Nicole and welcome to the forum. I'm sorry that circumstances have led you to be here, but truly it is the best place to be, given the place you are currently in.

I would focus on DBing basics for now - this may release the pressure on the situation for a little while. I'm going to suggest that you carve out a little time for yourself in all of this. When he comes to collect little one, he sees you there and he sees you there again when he gets back. And maybe you do some chores or watch a little TV between the two? However, what if you went out to a dance class (I love Latin dance) or a Meetup group whilst he is parenting?

Primarily, this may be good for you - ie: help you build your own social networks and a life beyond your marriage. And secondly, it may provide a little food for thought for him. Hey, this attractive woman clearly isn't going to sit at home pining for me. If you do one thing right now, I would do this. Next time he comes around, you would be looking nice, carrying your dancing shoes and smelling gently lovely. Then you would go off and enjoy an hour or so of dance (or whatever other activity you would genuinely enjoy...)

As for communications with him, I would gently draw back and stick to essential matters and pleasant (pass the time of day) chat. From what you have posted, this would be a 180 for you as you have previously initiated talks about your R with him. Maybe just let that drift for now and time will tell how things may unfold...

I hope this helps as a starting point. I post in the MLC area of the forum and my XH left for another woman back in 2014. He divorced me and is still with OW as far as I'm aware. In this regard, you may not see my DBing efforts as a great success. However, I fall into the 'successfully saved myself' group IMHO... grin

Xx


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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Hi Nicole, sorry you are here.

No, your H isn't in midlife crisis. This is something else - and what it is, will require some sleuthing on your part.

Does he have a deep seated problem with monogamy, and were his apparently "out of the blue" mood shifts due to things that were happening in his relationships with other women that you didn't know about? Could there have been more cheating going on than you were aware of?

Does he have some kind of mood disorder such as bipolar disorder?

Could he have an addiction that you are not aware of?

Is it possible that he married you to get his green card, and once you'd been married long enough that he was "safe" from losing his card if you divorced, he no longer kept up his mask?

I know these are all distressing scenarios, and it's difficult to imagine that this person who seemed so loving could be duplicitous, but these things do happen.

If you had to guess, which of these scenarios sounds most likely to you?

(My story: was married for 24 mostly-good years, but there were red flags I overlooked from the beginning. There was an affair with an old girlfriend in the first year of our marriage that I forgave and put down to marriage jitters. An affair after 16 years of marriage that I DB'd our way out of. Then a classic MLC as he approached 50, we divorced and he's now married to an Asian girl 19 years younger. In retrospect now, 9 years after our split, I can see that he's a narcissist, and that he was never 100% in the marriage. I also suspect that there was more flirting and cheating than I was aware of.

Also, recently got out of a 4 year relationship with a man who treated me like a princess. Imagine my surprise on finding out he had another woman on the side for the last three years! And some of his "inexplicable" mood changes occurred when they were fighting, or he was stressing about keeping up his double life.)

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Cadet,

Thanks for those resources! I'll keep posting. I like the lighthouse story and wish I could be like that.

Thanks again!

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Hi Sotto,

Thanks for your response! I'll try to plan more activities for when my husband takes our child out. Currently I need some of the time to do consulting work but I am active with a new church and new friends (we just moved to our current city a year ago). I used to take Latin dancing lessons but it's been a while....I'd like to learn meditation or go to the gym. Perhaps those aren't the best excuses to dress up but I'll work on it.

I'll look for your other posts in the other forum and hope to learn more about saving oneself. I'm just physically not well from all this stress and wish to work on the health issues first and foremost.

Did you ever meet another man or re-marry?

Thanks again!

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Hi KML,

Thanks for your thoughtful questions. All three of your scenarios are possibilities. It's also possible that two or all of them are reasons for what happened.

There's no evidence that my husband has been cheating since he came back the first time. It's always possible he got smarter about it, but in general up until we separated on September 1st he was home all the time when he wasn't at work, wasn't texting anyone frequently, and never looked particularly nice when he went out. But it's still possible there is someone and that's why he's not motivated to work things out. He definitely "discovered" that monogamy is restrictive after getting married and that seems to be one of his regrets - that he didn't get to "live his life" more before getting married. I think after all the dating he did when he left the first time he discovered it's more complicated than he realized. I assume he had a bad break-up or realized it's not as carefree a life as he'd hoped.

I asked the psychologist if my husband sounds like he has a mood disorder and he said he didn't think it's likely, but I do believe there is something wrong like ADHD or mild bi-polar disorder because he does bizarre things like go on major shopping sprees and then returns everything and he has road rage, and he's very anti-social except with his few best friends. I know he watches pornography and may be addicted to it. It's hard to say. I haven't checked what's happening behind the scenes for over two years but there's also the phenomenon of him coming to the US after living in a conservative country and having everything suddenly available. There may just be too many temptations. Perhaps he feels it's marriage vs. all the great things in the world and can't reconcile how to have both or give up one or the other.

He may have married for a green card and I still wonder about that possibility. It's the least likely scenario because our life together was consistently good for many years even for two years after he became a US citizen. He used to call or text me every hour or two when I was at work, sent many loving e-mails, and was proud to be my husband. He wanted to have kids right away but I refused because I wasn't 100% sure about what would happen after he got the green card. It's possible his primary motive was to marry for a green card and I was also a good wife so he kept me around until he had better options, but it's really hard to know.

I'm sorry to hear about the end of your 24 year marriage and the newer relationship where the man was cheating as well. That's so sad and unfair that your ex-husband would marry a younger woman and that your newer relationship had a third party. How can you trust anyone after all that?

It's off topic but also what's with all these much younger girls marrying much older men? I'm almost 40 and I don't feel like I can relate well to a 60 year old man. It seems like every older man wants a much younger woman and apparently there are many out there ready to be their girlfriend and some are probably sincerely in love, but it can't be all of them. It does make me feel like I wouldn't be anyone's first choice unless he's much older. I wish I'd never have to find out, but there doesn't seem to be much hope left for my marriage.

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I must admit, I agree with kml about the worrying long term pattern of consistently needing the inappropriate contact alongside his main R. It does signify a problem that may be more deep seated, and how willing and able he may be to try and change that - IDK?

I'm reminded of a good friend of mine who was married for a few years to a guy and discovered an A and ongoing contact with various women during their M - even on their honeymoon actually - yikes! They recovered from this once and then the behaviour started up again - second time around, she had reached her limit and they D'd. She is now happily dating a new guy couple of years later. Now I don't advocate divorce, and this is a marriage saving site. But there are two messages in here. One is - however things unfold, you will reach a happy place again if you put in gentle and consistent effort. Two is - personal boundaries - critical in a situation like yours. What are you willing to live with and what aren't you willing to live with. One of my biggest 'learns' has been to ask myself - is this working for me? And What do I need to do to look after myself in this situation?

You may want to have a look at psy Sara's thread as I thought of this when reading your post too. I tried hard to save our marriage, but it did end in divorce. However, the big thing I really don't miss is that state of anxiety around whether XH was in touch with OW again (he was..) I don't ever want to live like that again - it's miserable - and it is perfectly reasonable for you, for anyone, to have a rock solid boundary on this.

All of this means I don't think an early reconciliation is a good thing to aim for in your situation. I think it will be best for you to start rebuilding your life after your separation and just let the dust settle with him. In my friend's case, her XH asked if they could try again after D - and she wasn't interested. Undiagnosed depression was her take on what happened with him, and the contact with OPs was a distraction and way of not facing those internal issues. I think your H would need to willing to face up to whatever underlying cause leads to this behaviour and seek therapy to address it.

Hope this helps a little anyway Nicole. Chin up, extend yourself with new activities and invest in getting your new place looking nice...leave your H to twist in the wind just now and step back a little... I'll keep looking in on you..

smile


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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Hi Sotto,

Thanks for your response! You are right and it sounds like you have a lot of experience with these issues to pick-up on how it may be a more deep seated problem.

Originally I was most troubled by my husband having affairs but that was actually nothing compared to him just leaving as if he doesn't care and never again wanting to openly communicate or act like himself. He completely changed as a human being and that's the hardest part for me to accept.

I'd have to think about it more but I almost don't even care who he's talking to if he could just offer us a semi-normal life with stability for a few years. It's currently not an option since he's gone again, but none of the options on how to proceed are good. Divorce is not good, being single is not good, trying to date and meet someone new seems like exchanging one set of problems for another is not good, and living with a husband who doesn't love me isn't good. Not one of those options are currently ones that I can accept. My husband's affairs are part of something that happened to him where he's no longer the man that I married. I don't even think about them compared to missing the man with whom I had a great life for many years.

I don't know if any reconciliation is possible nor if it could happen any time soon, but I feel I can't wait indefinitely so asking for a divorce may eventually be the only way to end this situation. The last time my husband returned within eight weeks, but this time he seems just checked-out and in his own world.

Thanks again for your input. If my husband ever did want to work things out seriously then I'd definitely ask him to seek long-term counseling to address what went wrong.

I'll search for psy Sara's thread. I'm glad in your case you're at least out of that state of anxiety wondering about the OW. That is a terrible feeling.

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Hi Nicole, absolutely focus on health first and you can add other things in when you are feeling stronger. In the early days, I found it very soothing to read Jon Kabat Zinn - even if I didn't meditate, I found his words really calming. I also joined a yoga class with a great teacher and I still do that. I did some upcycling projects too - I had little in the way of funds but my Dad kindly lent me his garage and it did me good to get out in the fresh air and do something creative with my hands..

I'm not sure I'd recommend reading my threads!! It's been a long road for me - since Spring of 2014. And funnily enough the OW in my sitch was much younger than XH - 17 years. She is closer in age to his son. No, I haven't met someone else yet. I decided to wait for a year after D finalised to open up to that. And I have been on one coffee date with a dancing friend, but haven't taken that any further. I'm enjoying the single life just at the moment....all in good time :-)

Anyway, just keep on moving forward - get through today, don't try and think too far ahead. Settle your system, so you are eating, sleeping and working - and then you can build on that as time moves on.

Take care smile


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BD 7.14 PA
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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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NicoleR Offline OP
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Sotto,

I'll try to read that author. Thanks! The hobbies you started sound really fun. I'd be happy to read your threads and those of anyone who survived divorce because I need to be prepared. Sorry to hear your ex also found a younger woman. Why is it so easy for older men to find these younger women? It seems like they're everywhere.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. I honestly feel overwhelmed even though the problems with my husband have been going on for a while but there was always a glimmer of hope things could work out. Now I'm not so sure.

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Hi Nicole, there is always hope as long as you choose to leave the door open to reconciliation. If you haven't read the 37 rules, it's a good idea to do that. And certainly the rule about not losing heart even though things may feel bleak is an important one.

In cases of reconciliation, the LBS had felt just the same as us and didn't believe it would be possible. But things turn sometimes and we just don't know which situations will.

For now though, I would focus on DBing basics in your interactions with your H and just steady yourself. It's great that you have become more involved in the church - it really helps to build up our own support networks at times like these. Do you have other family and friends locally too, and is work supportive?

I also found reading around the whole subject of infidelity/midlife crisis helpful. My situation was different to yours, but I'm a bit of a researcher and it helped me feel a little less lost for sure.

Hope today is a better day for you :)x


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
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BD 7.14 PA
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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Oh also I meant to say - I hear what you're saying about - there are no good options here. I can remember thinking the same - there are no easy roads out of here. Reconciliation (though I wanted that) didn't feel easy. Divorce - ugh - etc...

But the path of personal growth (trauma growth) is the way to go I think. Again not an easy road, but a rewarding one. I have come to value so much that I have learned through this process and I do feel I have become a better person - calmer, less concerned about what others may think, more boundaried and more joyful. Gifts worth having...


T 13 M 7
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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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I can certainly echo that


Me 55, W 50
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M 20
T 27
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BD 01/02/17
workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA)
OM senior manager, long term W, child 14
now: limbo (my choice)

"Don't care what you may do, we got that attitude!" - Bad Brains
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NicoleR Offline OP
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Thanks Sotto and CW. I'm obviously thinking a lot about this and question whether I'm wasting my time with DB when there may be less suffering if we choose to divorce. This has been going on for a few years now and my husband hasn't even said "I love you" for years.

I'm not perfect but I've tried really hard to offer second chances and I've bought my husband many gifts and cards to celebrate his career achievements, birthdays, etc.. but he hasn't done anything at all for me in many years.

I guess I said it in another post but I feel afraid of trading one set of problems for another if I do manage to get into a new relationship. Relationships all seem to start out great, even for many years. But what if I find myself in the same place with another man in ten years? Someone else may cheat or there may be something different like alcohol, issues with extended family abuse, etc.. This makes it hard to think about moving on. My husband isn't violent or abusive in any way. He's used to be a good man at heart, just very immature and selfish since he discovered he can have whatever he wants here in the US and he's always had me to fall back on. I think I failed to respond effectively the first time I found him talking to other women and he lost respect for me.

I will do my best to practice DB techniques a bit longer but need to really consider more if that's the best route. I believe in the DB book there is a last resort where you say you'll file divorce and be ready to do so. I recall it saying that may push the spouse into changing. I don't know though if that would have a positive impact in my case? There's not much more to lose in our case so I may study it more.

There is something else I'd like to ask for anyone who's reading and can respond. I saw PsySara refer to this phenomenon but failed to copy it to quote it here. Basically cheating is a really bad thing to do and it's very difficult to do a 180 where you act like you no longer care, act pleasant, and look like you're moving on. I know you're supposed to do it for your own sake, but to some degree it feels like you're letting the other person off the hook. They don't have to deal with you suffering anymore.

My husband's current departure may not be driven by a current affair but that's a big factor into what happened previously. So what if he does come back (which I don't even anticipate much) and I can't maintain that carefree happy demeanor because the pain and memories were never dealt with? Does a cheating, reckless spouse just get off the hook at that point and we just move on?

I guess the DB book stops at the point of them returning and from thereon you need to address all the painful issues once the spouse returns. I'll have to read more of other people's threads to see how it's played out for others.

Sorry this post is kind of scattered but I'm not 100% sure about which DB technique to use, or whether to use any, as I sit and think how this has gone on for years. I know I should just move on regardless but filing for divorce is a specific action that I'd like to consider further.

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Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


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I would slow down when it comes to any big decisions as you guys have just recently separated. You don't need to decide anything at this point in time, just take care of yourself and your child and coparent with your H. The big stuff can wait for a Little while.

I can understand how you must feel if this has gone on for a while and ultimately whether you choose to file at some point is up to you. I didn't, but then my situation went south only over the course of a year or so - the ten years prior to that were good.

Also, try not to worry about a potential future relationship - that's a ways down the road. I used to find myself panicking about X and Y - holidays, Xmas - and I kept coming back to - just think about this week - no further ahead. I'll deal with further ahead when I get there..

Blu's thread is a useful one in terms of what may happen after DBing. She and her H are back together again, and she says she wished she had DB'd better and done more for herself. She is insightful and you may find that a useful read too.

Xx


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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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NicoleR Offline OP
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Thanks Sotto and Cadet for your messages. I'm trying to let go of any big decisions. I've actually been physically not well and have needed to call my husband to get help with my daughter. I don't know if it's caused by the psychological stress of my husband leaving or other stressors that have happened recently but now I need a number of invasive medical procedures in the next few weeks to find out what's wrong and feel paralyzed by fear. I can barely function, between starting over without my husband, worrying about what will happen to my daughter if I get worse and can't care for her, the physical pain, and just everything... I'm trying to force myself to be ok for my daughter, to take her out and play with her, but inside I feel like I'm living a nightmare and can't wake up. Has anyone else here had health problems after their spouse leaves?

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Hi Nicole, I'm so sorry you have been struggling with your health - it is such a tough time and that does happen for many people. It took a little while for me to regain my appetite and sleep better. I did lose weight and it took me a while to put that back on. I didn't work for a little while after BD - I left the area and my job too when XH and I split up. I was lucky to be taken in my Mum and Dad and live with them for a few months. I had no-one to look after but myself and very little pressure, so I was lucky.

Every day, do try and do something nice for yourself - a bath, nice cup of tea, some healthy food, the sun on your face, a little walk, meditation. Also, I found it helpful to see a therapist for a while to talk about things and cry (a lot!) Your current health challenges could well be due to the great stress you have been under, but hopefully the tests will be reassuring and you'll understand what is happening and what treatment is available.

Do keep posting, taking care of yourself and calling on support when you need it. Family and good friends will be happy to help and don't be afraid to ask.

Take care and I hope you start feeling much better soon xxx


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Hi Sotto,

Thanks for your response. I'm really trying to do those things you suggest. I got part of a diagnosis for my condition and it's a fairly bad problem that'll take a while to treat. I didn't have any of the risk factors except stress. I do have a psychologist and a counselor and they help to some degree, until you hit a point where there's not much left to discuss because you're already doing the things they suggest and there's no change in the marriage status.

In any case it's nice to see you went through all that and survived. I hope I will too. Thanks again!

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Hi Nicole, I'm glad you at least got a partial diagnosis and hopefully you can get started with a treatment plan. Good that you are seeing a psychologist and counsellor too. I saw a therapist for six months or so after XH and I separated and it was helpful. I cried A LOT at those appointments, so I let out some emotion too..

Just a thought on your post above - I wouldn't make a change in the marriage status your primary aim just now. I would focus on your own growth and healing. Make those appointments about helping you feel better, stronger, more able to cope and more resourceful. Independent of your relationship, what things about you would you like to work on for you?

Thanks for your kind comments - yes I did cope, survive and thrive and I see myself as 'happily single' just now. So, life can feel positive even if the marriage isn't restored despite your best efforts. I think for me, giving it my best effort and giving myself my best effort have been the thing that came to truly matter - who and how did I manage to be through all of this?

A friend recently shared an article with me - all about the 3 loves in our lives. Our self-love, our love of others (children, friends, animals - perhaps a romantic love (optional)) and those things we love to do...plus gratitude. I think if we nourish these three areas and practice gratitude too, we will be on a good path - whatever our partner may be doing.

Take care Nicole and hope you'll start to feel much better soon :-) xx


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Hi Nicole,
Thought I would stop on by and give my two cents. Initially I had to do a lot of "Faking to make it." I DB'd atrociously, I did it to get reactions out of him and that was my mistake. I should have worked on myself strictly for my self. I should have reached out more for friends instead of sulking at home so often. My Dbing coach even got frustrated at me when I verbalized reticence on getting some evenings child free because I didn't want to "burden" someone with my children. They were my responsibility so I felt it my obligation to spend 100% of my free time with them. See that? That's what's called making yourself a martyr, lol!

So eventually I started finding evening to spend getting my hair done professionally, to hang out with friends, to gab on my phone. That way I was emotionally recharged. I've read the books multiple times, have high lighters and pages ear marked with color coded tags. I've bought the LRT video and watched it about 6 times. I've done 11 DBing sessions with a coach.

I tell you what, if I had actually DONE the techniques instead of using them to "get back WH" I would not be here two years later starting over again. MWD encourages people to take breaks from "working on their marriage" as it can quickly burn you out. So...what are you doing to get a life? Please do not isolate yourself as this is the most insidious, damaging thing to do. Do NOT feel bad for one second having to call on your husband to PARENT (NOT BABYSIT) his own child. I want to come over there and give you one of those massages they give before sending a boxer to slug the sh*t out of the opponent. You got this! If your H comes crawling back then you can give the conditions and boundaries you require before rebuilding.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
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Hi Sotto,

At the moment I'm somewhat forced to set aside what's happening with my husband in order to improve my health. I will try to let go of any expectations of the marriage continuing or ending. That's a nice reminder about the three kinds of love. Currently it seems 90% of my love goes to my daughter since she's only three and I'm her sole caretaker. I'll try to balance things out better. There are going to be some limits compared to someone who has no kids or older kids, but I'm sure I can still do better. Right now I barely make it through each day with just the basic necessities (caring for my daughter, cooking, cleaning, errands, etc..) compared to my 'previous' life where I would go to the gym every day, meet friends, attend special events, conquer major career and educational goals, and travel.

PsySara, thanks for your input! I do see what you're saying. I've gone back-and-forth between the two things - working on myself and wanting my husband back. When my husband left the first time (also October 2015) I somehow found it within myself to practice DB techniques within a week or two and I honestly did do it for myself. I was out with friends every day, talking with spiritual and religious mentors every night, going to counseling, attending events around NYC where I lived at the time, stayed on top of the consulting work I was doing, and acted like I didn't care too much when my husband stopped by or called. I did everything with my daughter with me but it didn't stop me. My husband did notice and within eight weeks he was back and said he couldn't believe how well I was doing. He apologized for everything and it seemed like we were going to fix things.

Then that didn't happen. My husband lived with us again, but he was never the same. He wasn't interested in me as a wife and just came home to eat and search on his computer while I did everything else. This was not a livable solution. Every month or so I'd approach him and ask what we could do to fix or end the situation and he'd get mad and send me away crying.

This kept happening until I made two psychologist appointments for him this past summer and after the second one he came home and said he was leaving. He said he couldn't decide anything about our future together for at least six months. This time is different in several ways and I'm struggling more. I'll write more about that later...I have to run to a doctor's appointment now.

Thanks again to both of you for your input!

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I'm back. So this time seems different because I don't have the strength and energy I had the first time he left. A week after my daughter and I got our own apartment we had to evacuate for Hurricane Irma and we were gone for 2.5 weeks. Soon after we returned I started having health problems that kept getting worse. It took a lot of diagnostic tests and doctors visits to figure out what was wrong. I was on the edge of having a mental breakdown because I wasn't sure if I'd need surgery or what would happen. I don't have close family to come and help and my friends here are all busy caring for their little kids. It was a crisis. Everything around me is uprooted. My daughter and I are sleeping on a mattress on the floor after having previously lived in a luxury gated community in a beautiful new home. Most of our stuff is still in boxes in the new house that my husband built for us (that's another story - he wanted to build his dream house without factoring in who would live there) where he now lives alone.

Finally last week I got a diagnosis and hope to slowly recover but the normal steps someone would take to 'get a life' haven't been realistic for me these past few weeks. It's all been a blur and I've been living day-by-day not knowing what's wrong with my health.

I've been on the phone with friends every night or meeting friends during the day, going to church events, and I signed up for a meditation class that starts tomorrow so I'm doing my best to avoid being alone. I've demanded that my husband help with our daughter extra the past few weeks but he's extremely annoyed and inconvenienced by this. Some days he loves her more than anything in the world and then other days he says she's a mistake and complains how he's too tired to take her. He doesn't know anything about how to care for her, so I hesitate to send her off with him more than a short time because it seems she just tags along while he does his shopping or works and he's not really doing anything enriching for her.

It feels complicated and overwhelming. I think I'm further behind in the 'get a life' process than most but I'm trying to slowly accept that there are a lot of things I can't control at the moment. There should be DB guidelines for complex or crisis situations because I had no problem applying those techniques the first time but this is so different. I also now have a pile of medical bills and I'm not working so I have to 1) get my husband to re-prioritize his spending to cover those bills and 2) I need to move to a city where I can get a job in my profession so I'm self sufficient again, but moving again is probably not wise right at this moment. Just eating right now is a big deal and I lost a dangerous amount of weight.

My mindset might be better in a few weeks and I may be better able to apply your suggestions (PsySara and Sotto) after getting out of crisis-mode. I really appreciate your input! PsySara I think what you're saying is I need to use a tougher approach with my husband to get him to help. I just wish I could trust him more with our daughter but another option might be asking him to cover more babysitting hours. And I wish there was a way to expedite the DB process after falling so far behind. Wish me luck!

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Hi Everyone,

It's been a few weeks since I posted on my own thread. My health was a little better and then got worse again but I've been trying to avoid reaching out to my husband as much as possible.

My husband still shows no signs of wanting to talk about the future, however, last week apparently he called when I was sleeping and I didn't notice the next morning. Then when we left church there were two missed calls from him. I called back and he said he drove to our apartment to check on us because I didn't answer. I told him we were sleeping / at church. This is odd because he normally could not care less.

My husband's brother and his family are coming to a nearby city next week and I was going to take our daughter alone to see them since my husband didn't express interest in seeing them. Their daughters are our daughter's only cousins and they love each other so this is a good opportunity for them to see each other. Tonight my husband called and said we can all go together and stay over night next weekend. It seems practical so I said yes.

This is probably the worst period of my life to date. My health just isn't good and it's already been years since my husband started having affairs and stopped making an effort to work towards the marriage. Sometimes I feel that I'm wasting time by waiting to hear from him because there's very little incentive on his part to change the current situation. He's now free and living on his own while he still has us living nearby 'waiting' for him to figure out what he wants. Meanwhile my options for getting out and doing stuff are just limited because I have a toddler and I'm sick.

I'm still trying to find the energy and enthusiasm to raise our daughter alone and give her all that she needs, but I wonder how all of you handle the holidays? I have so many happy memories of the holidays with my husband. On one hand I don't want to spend them alone but on the other hand giving my husband the option of joining us at his convenience and then returning back to his free and happy life without us makes me feel worse.

Several other threads have raised the topic of spouses who leave turning into totally different people. I can relate because this is not the man I married. He was so great and was always helpful when I was sick and so supportive in everything. Now he's like a stranger. But I also see my husband acting like his own self around his friends and family, so it's just around me that he's a totally different person. I guess he simply doesn't love me anymore, so that's what makes it hard to be sure that the DB techniques here are appropriate. We have a child though and I'd give anything for her to live with both her parents.

I'd be happy for any feedback and will continue to respond to everyone else's posts as much as possible.

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"It's already been years since my husband started having affairs and stopped making an effort to work towards the marriage. Sometimes I feel that I'm wasting time by waiting to hear from him because there's very little incentive on his part to change the current situation. He's now free and living on his own while he still has us living nearby 'waiting' for him to figure out what he wants."

Have a look at the blue section above Nicole. Therein lies the problem IMHO. Now he will do what he will do, but whether you sit and 'wait' for him to call or 'wait' for him to decide is up to you.

Actually, I would focus on regaining your health and rebuilding your own life just now and put him firmly on the back burner. That would be good for you and the dynamic above may change to - He's single and living alone - he can also see you moving forward without him - that unsettles him etc..

Do you have a clear treatment plan now Nicole? I hope you'll start to feel much better soon. Xx


T 13 M 7
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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Hi Nicole - me again grin

Just ruminating some more on what you posted above and the phrase sticking in my mind is - ask for what you need. Do you find that difficult? I certainly do as a recovering people pleaser. Don't rock the boat is deeply ingrained for me - I'm still working on it!!

So, from all that you posted - you would really welcome some more support so that you can recharge and improve your health - and maybe even get out and enjoy yourself a little.

Is there a particular reason why you are parenting 24/7 and your H just calls in and visits to spend a little time with his child? When I met XH he had been S for a year and he had his S (then 4) every weekend and a night during the week. So, normally 3 nights a week and he worked full time.

I think you may want to ask your H to participate more fully. Would it be an option for you to say - H, I'd like for (our child) to stay with you a couple of nights a week in order that I can recharge, go out (or whatever.) How do you feel about that suggestion??

Xx


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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Hi Nicole, sorry you're feeling so ill. I hope you feel better soon x

I agree with Sotto, if H can look after your D more that would be a double help for you, 1) to recharge and get better

2) to begin GAL and show him you're not 'waiting' on him to get his act together.

As to the holidays...I'm ruminating on that too. But my children are all adults 18, 20, 23 and it's easier to make it a group decision. I'm actually happy to have Christmas dinner on Christmas Eve and we'll all get to open presents together...then H can book an expensive Christmas meal and take them all out. I then get the house to myself with the dogs! Sounds bliss, as they'll all return in the evening fed and I can just enjoy their company.

For you? What do you WANT to do, this is your time and do whats best for you and your D. Your D won't miss out as I know you'll sort out time for her to see her dad, but do what you feel comfortable doing and not to make H happy.

Get well soon x


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If this sounds harsh, I don't mean for it to.

The new reality is that you are going to be spending the rest of your holidays, at least for the foreseeable future, without H. Figure out what YOU want to do, and do it.

(I'm trying to make the adjustment, too......)


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All, thanks for your responses!

Sotto, I'm trying to do as you suggest with my health and rebuilding my life. It's hard trying to cover everything in a forum like this but to really move on and rebuild my life I need to recover from this health problem and move back to the Northeast, get a new job in my field, and be financially independent as well as closer to my closest friends. My husband and I dreamed to move to this smaller town where we currently live, but if we're not together, there's no reason to stay here.

I need to wait a while to move and get a new job though. Right now I can barely eat and I'm still in the danger zone with my health. It's also unfair to my daughter to uproot her after we've already moved six times since she was born and we just moved two months ago. Another big move at the moment wouldn't be good for us.

Yes, I can try to move on in other ways in the meantime. I'm active in a new church, made a lot of new friends in this city who I see on a regular basis, seeing a counselor and a psychologist, and I'm volunteering for several organizations and maintain contact with my career network, among other things. But to me this isn't sufficient.

So I don't know how to reconcile the advice of the DB book with my current situation. There are just limitations at the moment. I'd love to move to Europe, start a new business, and spend my days exercising and meditating but those aren't options right now. Simply going out at night to bars and clubs isn't something I've ever done nor wish to do now, so that's not they key to getting a life either. It's a transitional period in life in many ways.

What I really want is a husband who is committed and together we raise our daughter and support each other's careers. I've done many things in life I've wanted to do at a young age and at this age what I wish for is to be with my husband and daughter, but this isn't possible right now.

For now I'm trying to focus on just eating, sleeping, raising my daughter, and the other things I mentioned above. My husband knows I want more than this in life and to me these couple of things don't constitute getting a life. But I can't do many of the other things at the moment. I have to figure out not just how to move on from my husband but how to find happiness being sick and unemployed in a city where I probably won't stay. My husband knows me well enough to know I'm stuck under bad circumstances and if I fake happiness overnight that it's just an act.

My guess is that it's not going to be an overnight process in my case. Does anyone else feel like that?

Sotto, I actually don't have trouble asking my husband for things. I demanded that he take our daughter when I had to go to the ER and urgent care recently and when I had to do other medical tests. I had him sign an agreement that he'll take our daughter three nights a week for two hours per visit and pay our bills. He works six days per week, 12 hours per day, and keeps complaining that taking our daughter doesn't work for him but he's doing it. It's not benefiting her though. He ends up doing things with her that don't enrich her in any way. Last night he said he'll take her to a pizza shop that's 30 minutes away. I asked why he's going so far and he said because the long drive passes the time faster. Basically she's sitting for an hour in the car just because my husband isn't interested in spending quality time with her. Asking him to do more won't work because of his work schedule and attitude. He doesn't like being a father and I feel too sorry for our daughter to spend more time with someone who's not interested in her.

Caz, your Christmas plans sound nice. What I wish for of course is to spend the holidays with my husband and daughter together but even if my husband wants to come it should probably be for a limited time. I can't travel anywhere since I'm sick, but I guess my daughter and I will just stay home and play with the toys she gets and cook together. I'll do what I can to make it fun for her.

Jim, thanks for your message. Again I guess what I want isn't possible, and at the moment there aren't any alternatives that I want either, but it's my sole responsibility to give my daughter a fun and happy Christmas experience so I'll do my best to play with her and make it fun for her.

The counselor that I saw yesterday suggests a different approach than the DB one. She believes I should do nice things for my husband and invite him for the holidays because any time we spend together is an opportunity for him to soften his heart. It's hard knowing if that approach is better than the DB one. To me it seems I've already tried that and it didn't work. He still left. My friends all think I should just divorce my husband but it's easy to tell someone else to do that. It's harder when you're the one doing it.

It seems I need to find a way to accept my situation for the next six months or so before I can do the things I really want to do to *try* to move on and create a new beginning. Maybe I need to settle for finding happiness in simple things, like the sun shining or my daughter's smile, and let go of the dreams that aren't attainable for now.

How does everyone here define getting a life? I need to dig out the DB book from the moving boxes that ended up in storage and re-read. What happens when you can't go to hair salons every week and party with your friends and take fun classes? I think I may need to be patient for the coming months until I can do more.

Thanks for everyone's input! This is the worst and darkest time of my life and it's helpful to see how others are coping and found their way to the other side.

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Hi Nicole! I am really sorry to hear about your health and your sitch with your H. I haven't read your full thread, but I thought I'd pop in some thoughts based on your last post.

Quote:
but to really move on and rebuild my life I need to recover from this health problem and move back to the Northeast, get a new job in my field, and be financially independent as well as closer to my closest friends.


Those sound like really good goals.

Quote:
There are just limitations at the moment. I'd love to move to Europe, start a new business, and spend my days exercising and meditating but those aren't options right now.


Don't be hard on yourself. That's totally okay considering your situation right now and you have some idea about what you might want your future to look like. I think that's very positive because you are envisioning a fulfilling life and what you want to do does not sound impossible. It may be out of reach right now, but not forever.

Quote:
Simply going out at night to bars and clubs isn't something I've ever done nor wish to do now, so that's not they key to getting a life either.


Okay, so it's not something you ever really did. Why not just go out for an evening and be in a social environment? Go to a pub or a lounge as they are more low key. Do you like getting a drink sometimes? Just go and get a drink somewhere and see how that goes. Get some food too. I am saying just try it and see if there is anything about that experience that you like. Don't just rule it out because you've never done it.

Quote:
What I really want is a husband who is committed and together we raise our daughter and support each other's careers. I've done many things in life I've wanted to do at a young age and at this age what I wish for is to be with my husband and daughter, but this isn't possible right now.


You answered your own wishes and desires. That ship has sailed for now and you just don't know if you will ever have this with your H. Maybe someone new in the future or maybe with your H, but right now your MR is dead.

Quote:
How does everyone here define getting a life?


From my take, GAL is about engaging in activities that are for yourself and that can give you enjoyment, self-confidence, and discovering things about yourself. Some of the standard stuff here you see is about going out doing various things, getting in shape, becoming social etc etc. But you also see people picking up reading more, writing, art etc.

I think you need to think about what you can do for the next six months that can bring you a sense of fun and personal satisfaction. GAL is just so key to start the process of detachment. With your health being fragile right now, what are things that you can do that might be feasible? Do you like movies? Can you go catch a movie sometime? What about a play? Are there books you'd like to read? Can you go for short walks?

GAL is all about 'ME' time. What can you do right now to get that?
Some of my GAL right now also includes doing activities with my kids. GAL can burn your wallet/purse, and I always look for free things to do in town or come up with stuff at home. It's amazing how much free stuff there is once you look around. I don't know what the situation is where you live, but it may be worth exploring. Obviously, keeping your health in mind with all of this stuff.

So maybe the possibilities of GAL for you might be limited right now, but I bet you that you can come up with a couple of things that would feed and nurture your spirit.

Quote:
This is the worst and darkest time of my life and it's helpful to see how others are coping and found their way to the other side.


Completely with you on this one. The key here is that there is the OTHER SIDE. And this other side is very very promising. I am personally looking forward to getting there and I am getting happier with myself every day. You will too.


No one is coming to save you!

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Maika, thank you so much for your compassion and encouragement! It's really helpful. I'm taking my daughter to a free outdoor movie this evening so I guess that's something....

You explained everything well. I guess 'me' time right now mainly focuses on health but I am doing a lot of volunteering and church activities that I enjoy. It's not enough right now to say "this is so great, I forgot all about my husband!" Maybe over time I can change my mindset until I can actually move, get a new job, etc..

I would honestly like to go to dinner with a friend one night and just talk and relax but I can't actually eat much of anything right now without severe pain (the diagnosis I got is chronic erosive gastritis) so restaurants aren't an option and I don't drink alcohol. I'll still look for additional other types of activities though. There is a meditation class I want to start if I can get my husband to commit to his whole two hours and not bring out daughter back early. I still just feel bad for her though

One of the hardest things about all this is comparing my life five years ago to the one I have now. Five years ago I had a great, meaningful, vibrant career in a major US city with overseas travel, conferences, and a lot of social activities. My husband and I had lots of mutual friends, did everything together on the weekends, and we had so much hope for the life we were building.

Now at the present time I'm alone with a toddler, not working, sick, without husband, far from my closest friends, etc.. and it's very difficult to adapt. I guess a lot of people here have that experience. I need to mourn the loss of my 'old' life in some ways. This new life isn't what I wanted, except for my daughter, but I wish so much to give her a better life than this one.

One thing that's just bizarre is my husband did already leave once and come back. When we moved to this new city last year we started building a new house. It's a big, beautiful house with a lot of special features and a water view. In the meantime we were renting in a beautiful community. Now my husband is living in that house while it gets the final touches while my daughter and I are in a dark, small apartment with ants overlooking a parking lot. It's not that I care about the house, I just wish for my husband, but there's a sense of unfairness in how we were kind of tossed aside while he continues in this new house that was supposed to be for all of us.

That's beside the point I guess but one thing I sense I need to do is get more legal advice and a better sense of what would be fair to my daughter and I if we get divorced.

I'll read your thread to learn more about your situation. Thanks again for your understanding!

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I am happy to share my thoughts Nicole. This board and the wonderful folks have been there for me during some of the darkest times in the last few months and I honestly don't know how I would've made it without this community.

I think one of the powerful things about GAL is that it does give your mind a break from thinking about your partner and the situation. It allows you to reframe your thoughts towards yourself. So, you don't forget about them, but if your mind/body is busy, then the other person doesn't occupy as much mental space. I still think about my W, but because GAL forces you to really focus on yourself, over time you start to lovingly detach from your partner and even when you think about them, the pain and hurt starts going away.

I can see how your life has flipped from five years ago and any one in those shoes would be feeling the same way you do. But everything, aside from your MR, you have described about your past life can be regained again. And this time you can regain it with being a stronger, confident, and more independent person. Definitely do mourn and grieve over what has happened, but don't stay there. GAL will help you get out of the grief and less contact with your H will also help. That's why Sandi's rules are truly about helping yourself and protecting yourself.

I really feel for you about the house situation. W and I purchased our first home and it was just what we wanted for our family and how it would be amazing for our kids. I thought everything was great and we would just build from there. But, she blew everything up. Everything got smashed and shattered within weeks and we had to sell it. I know what you mean when you say that you felt tossed aside. I completely felt discarded and disposable and that I was just thrown to the curb. No effort was put into even trying to mend things.

Physical space does have an effect on mental well being and your space doesn't sound optimal right now. Hopefully you can take some solace in the fact that this is temporary and you will be out of it soon and then have the ability to truly build what you want for yourself. The MR is a big question mark and you'll have to leave it at that. Get yourself better and focus on your daughter and that's your priority right now, as you already know.

It really $ucks that your H doesn't want to be a father and his time with D is just meaningless and him going through the motions. That may change over time but you're the stable parent right now and your D needs that. You can't control the time H spends with D, but it is truly his loss that he's not nurturing his relationship with his daughter and taking responsibility.

Sorry about the chronic gastritis diagnosis. Well, at least you can rule out some GAL stuff based on that. There are some great meditation apps out there like Insight Timer if you want to do meditation at home. But if you can go out and be in a social environment to do it, that would be really good.

Hang in there and keep posting!


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"I'm active in a new church, made a lot of new friends in this city who I see on a regular basis, seeing a counselor and a psychologist, and I'm volunteering for several organizations and maintain contact with my career network, among other things. But to me this isn't sufficient. "

Hi Nicole, the above sounds like great progress to me - good for you - particularly given the challenges you are facing at the moment. I'm sorry to hear about your diagnosis - though at the same time, a diagnosis does mean you can move forward with treatment and look forward to feeling better soon hopefully.

I'm interested in your comments about what you want above. You'd like to be with your husband again - but from other things that you post - he checked out years ago, isn't interested in parenting and works 72 hour weeks. What would you be hoping would change for you about how the relationship was. What are your non-negotiables if he were interested in reconciling and rebuilding?

I understand what you post about your 'former' life and your 'current' life - I felt the same way - wow things were never meant to unfold like this!! This isn't the program I signed up for!! But actually, some rich and hard earned lessons and growth are there for all of us at times like these if we choose to take them. I look back now and see there were things I needed to learn and I don't regret the journey now.

Take care and keep posting. GLad that Maika is chiming in with some great advice too.

Xx


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To go what you're going through and be ill and have a H that doesn't seem engaged with your D must be truly hard. I think you're coping brilliantly and sound very strong Nicole!

It's so hard to watch our children be disregarded and for your H not to see her how you see her is frustrating and painful. I fought for years for my H to engage more with my children...he loves them no doubt about that...but I can't make him have a meaningful conversation with them when it just isn't in him. It's sad, they see it, they know he can't do it and they now make allowances for him. I mean wow!

But don't waste time trying to get him to be a better dad right now. It's all wasted effort that you need to get your health better.

I was going to suggest yoga or meditation or both! Yoga is excellent for digestive problems. And it can be as gentle as you need it to be. I would recommend going to a class with a trained instructor as you'll need to take it easy but the benefits would be huge. Maybe look into homeopathy, that could be a great GAL activity.

I understand completely about the postponement of your dreams...but you can make new ones in the meantime. Then when you feel better start a mood board and plan your bigger dreams.

The house situation stinks, totally unfair and would eat at me too. Stress isn't good for you right now, so start detaching from all of the things that get you riled, and put the house resentment behind you. Make this home cosier, nicer and try not to picture your H in the other house. Think how you can maybe make this situation better.

Are there any hobbies you can look into starting that you've always wanted to do...learn a new language? Knitting, crochet? Art? You may even be able to start a new business if you learn a new craft...


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Quote:
Last night he said he'll take her to a pizza shop that's 30 minutes away. I asked why he's going so far and he said because the long drive passes the time faster.


Seriously? I think this is enough to divorce him. If that's all he has to offer as a parent what use is he? Talk to an attorney, find out your rights, and if you can, move back to where you have support.

I know it's hard to give up the dream and the idea of who he seemed to be earlier in your marriage, but something is seriously wrong with him now. Whether it's drugs, affairs or mental illness, he's not capable of being who you and your daughter deserve right now.

BTW - how close is that 30 minutes away pizza place to a possible girlfriend's? Did daughter mention anything about meeting someone there?

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Maika, your feedback is very accurate and it sounds like you really understand these issues. I'll keep re-reading your responses because they sound like things I need to keep reminding myself about. That is so sad about your house too. I'll post on your thread ASAP.

Sotto, thanks for your encouragement. My only hope would be that my husband would be completely sorry for how he acted and would be ready to attend long-term counseling. He'd have to demonstrate that he wants to fix whatever is wrong (addiction, bi-polar, or whatever it is). In such case staying with him might be better than divorce because I've tried to keep divorce as the very last option, reserved for if he keeps going the way he's been going and has no intention of working on the marriage.

Caz, yes the saddest thing is when the kids themselves figure out that they're not important in their parent's eyes. It's unacceptable for any parent to do that to their child. My daughter hasn't totally figured that out yet but she has a strong preference for me and is very guarded and standoff-ish when my husband comes to take her. I have yoga DVD's that I do at home since I don't get to go alone out much, but the last time I tried it a few weeks ago it seemed to aggravate my health problem. That was disappointing. I will try to pursue meditation more seriously. There are many things I'd love to do and try but most of them are not realistic at this time. Instead I'm trying to find hobbies that I can do together with my daughter that are educational for her - cooking with her, going on nature walks, art projects, etc... Hopefully in the future I can focus more on my own interests. I did start a business here in the new city but plan to shut it down after honoring my last standing commitment. I don't want to do that, but there's no reason to invest more in it if I'm moving away. I only conducted targeted outreach for it and didn't earn any profit but it was a helpful exercise and learning experience.

Kml, That's the thing. Maybe I'm at the point in the DB process where it's not worth it anymore. Maybe I should attempt the "last resort" technique for a month or two and then file for divorce. I don't want to get divorced and don't want to be the one to request it though. Then my husband will tell his family and friends that I left him when he was 'working' on the marriage by taking time out to think about what he wants. But I don't think I can completely move on while being married to someone like that. It seems like the divorce process would help to ensure that my daughter and I are treated fairly and aren't at the mercy of a husband who can take advantage of our informal arrangement. The state in which we live doesn't recognize legal separations and has very backwards laws on child custody. I see the dream of us fixing things fading away because the first time he left he returned after eight weeks but this time it's already been three months and all I see is his annoyance at having to take our daughter three times per week. He definitely doesn't miss us. He shows occasional concern, like last weekend when I didn't answer his three calls (don't know what they were for), but I think that concern is becoming less and less as the weeks pass by. Regarding the pizza place, I don't think he wanted to meet a girlfriend there. Our daughter speaks excellent English and she can tell me in detail what they did together. She didn't mention anyone at the pizza shop. She did say there was a very friendly and nice young lady working at a furniture store they visited but I don't think that was a girlfriend. From what I know, my husband was dumped by his last girlfriend two years ago and got burned pretty bad. I don't think he's been cheating since then, although I can't be sure.

I really appreciate everyone's input. Your opinions and feedback are better-informed and based on tested techniques which is more helpful at this time than friends saying to 'just' divorce or my counselor suggesting that I try to spend more time with my husband. Thanks again!

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Yes definitely start LRT.

Their is a reason it is called that and should not be ignored.


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Thanks Cadet. That's helpful to focus on which technique to use now after brainstorming about everything. I'll move forward with LRT.

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Hi Nicole
Personally think you're doing amazingly well given all the circumstances. The folk here are amazing and offer some wonderful advice. As you so kindly pointed out when assessing my own sitch you don't expect this sort of thing panning our after all this time (in my case 27 years especially when you don't think you've done that much in terms of "neglect"). So onwards and upwards although there might be some bumps along the way. I've been personally feeling a bit more melancholic recently so much so I'm starting with a new IC next week especially as it's coming up to one year now.

Take care


Me 55, W 50
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workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA)
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CW, I'm glad you're hanging in there. It's also good to see a new IC. Sometimes a new perspective is helpful, especially since time has passed in your case and there is now an opportunity to reflect back on everything. Yes I guess most of us have bumps along the way. I'll check your thread for any new updates.

All, I'll try to focus on the last resort technique as noted above. You may wonder why I'd try at all with such a neglectful husband, but for a good six or seven years since we first met we were inseparable and he seemed like a great husband. Our story is unique because we met in a war zone. He was a local. I was an expatriate. Some of what happened with him I attributed to his history but after reading all of your stories I see he's not all that different than other spouses who leave.

It's worth pointing out there are things I did wrong. I was oftentimes too emotional and anxious when discussing problems with my husband which made him uncomfortable and over time I believe he started to avoid talking because I'd end up in tears and he'd end up frustrated. I also shouldn't have let my husband return after the first time he left and allow him to say "let me do x, y, and z and then we'll work on our marriage." I should have demanded that we work on it first before he returns and been firm about that. Letting things slide for so long just kept me in a state of misery and gave him the convenience of someone cooking, cleaning, and taking care of everything while he avoided doing anything. My husband also complained that I made sarcastic comments sometimes which is true. Out of frustration and sadness sometimes I'd say things like 'it's nice to see you pass by' which annoyed him and weren't helpful on my part. I wish I'd done things differently.

The psychologist said my husband only said good things about me when they met and accepted blame for what he did wrong. That's where it ends. My husband has no interest in working on his own problems so I'll work on the LRT and will keep you all posted. Thanks again for everyone's input. I really appreciate it!

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Hi Nicole, I just wanted to second the suggestions above for yoga and meditation. I joined a yoga class a couple of years ago and I love it. If you can find a really good teacher - we have British Wheel of Yoga in the UK - it can be so beneficial.

I have also found the calm.com app to be helpful. Soon after BD I kept reading about Headspace and I tried and liked it, then I purchased it. But I regretted that purchase and I just found the meditations boring. I far prefer the Calm.com ones and after using the free samples for a month or so, I just treated myself to the subscription.

These two things have helped me a great deal and they are 'old friends' that I rely on during times of stress.

Hope this helps a little, anyway & take care. Xx


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D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Sotto,

Thanks so much. Yoga seemed to make the pain I have in my stomach worse the last time I tried it a few weeks ago, but I'll try again and see if there's a way to modify any of the moves. I have a number of yoga dvd's that I used to use and I benefitted from them and miss them. Going to a class right now is difficult but when it becomes realistic and if my health improves I'll try again. It's good to hear you love your class. That's really great you've been doing it for years now!

I'll try the calm.com app. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again.

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There is a slight update. My husband had a long weekend off from work. Normally he works six days per week. He still didn't do anything extra with our daughter. He still brought her back early on his night to take her. But two nights ago he sent a late text saying "I'm so sorry for everything." Yesterday he called multiple times for different reasons. In the evening he asked if he could come to use the internet (his got cut off temporarily due to a construction accident in the lot next to him). I said yes he could come but we'd be going to sleep soon. He didn't come, but he called again and texted again asking if we were still awake. He sounded depressed.

It's hard to know what that means. Perhaps he realized being alone isn't as great as he thought. Perhaps he realizes he's been a bad father. Maybe he just feels sorry for himself. Who knows. But after months of not having a care in the world about us, and being annoyed by almost everything related to our daughter and I, he seems to be thinking about something.

My husband is supposed to take our daughter again tonight. I'd like to try something different....either cut down his days visiting our daughter to reduce overall contact (and since he doesn't do much with her anyway) or ask if he'd attend a joint counseling session to work on communicating better regarding our daughter.

The one thing that I'm sure needs to change are my husband's visits with our daughter. She doesn't like to go out with my husband and runs to me and holds on tight when he comes to take her out. I don't want to force her to go when my husband already doesn't want to take her. He doesn't even smile or hug her when he arrives so it's no surprise she doesn't want to go.

Any suggestions? In any case I'll keep proceeding with the last resort technique.

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Hi Nicole,

I wouldn't read anything into the texts (easier said than done, I know) as they blow hot and cold, east and west, back to front and all over the place lol.

My H sent me some long winded texts last week, I got sucked back in to replying...luckily I stuck to finance and Christmas stuff, but still...
Anyway, he hasn't replied to my last text regarding an arrears letter, so I definitely should know better.

Regarding your daughter, I think it's an excellent idea your H goes to IC to learn how to form a better bond with her. But I personally think you should be careful how you suggest it. I don't know, and am hoping someone else can offer some advice.
My H knows he has some work to do bonding with the children but when I brought up IC for him, he got defensive and said if and when he went to IC, it would be his decision only. Since then I've completely dropped the rope on that issue and also told him I don't want to be the go between on any issues with the children.

I know it could be awkward but for your daughters sake, could your H have his visits with your D at your home? Maybe she would feel more comfortable that way.

Is your H suffering from depression do you think or has he always not smiled and hugged your D? She's young and feeling uncomfortable so you do need to talk to H about this and the effect it has on her. But I would broach it in gentle enquiry rather than accusation. Tell him how you believe she feels, but be prepared for him to deny any knowledge of what your talking about.

Do you see an IC? Could you ask their advice on this issue and how best to broach it with your H.


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Caz,,

Yes, the texts may reflect a momentary feeling that passes (like "I really am a bad father") and then the next day it's back to the same behavior and thought pattern.

I did actually have my husband stay here at our apartment with our daughter last night and I left to go out. It was much better. She didn't have that fear of wondering where she was going to go and my husband didn't have to 'waste' his time driving around. She could play with her toys and eat the food that I prepared for her. When I returned my husband said it was much better, so at least for now I guess we'll continue with him coming and me leaving.

As my husband left he looked at me, which he doesn't normally do, and had a very guilty look on his face. It's hard to describe. I feel he had some kind of revelation recently. That doesn't necessarily mean he wants to fix the marriage but maybe he at least has some regret.

I didn't mention counseling to my husband last night but I still plan to do so. He called late last night again. I was semi-awake and I saw that he called, but I decided not to call him back. I figured it's best to not be too available and to give him more of a chance to think.

I don't know about other people's spouses here but mine gets very stressed by his job and everyday things like traffic and waiting in lines at the store. He spends most of his days stressed, semi-angry, and in a rush but after about 10:00 PM he seems to relax but then can't sleep. The psychologist said he doesn't think my husband is depressed but I do think there's something wrong.

I see both an IC and a psychologist although I haven't been to the psychologist for a few weeks now. The psychologist has tried reaching out to my husband to get him to come back to discuss his role as a father but my husband hasn't responded. I'll try to find a way to suggest it again this week.

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It sounds more like anxiety than depression which can be just as debilitating and everything can seem overwhelming. Maybe ask your H to see a Dr regarding how he struggles/copes with everyday life.

I'm glad you may have hit on a system that works regarding your D and H time...it's not fair you have to leave, but maybe if H feels less overwhelmed with the situation he will find chilling out with D more fun and less of a job. Frustrating I know, after all he's put you through that you have to bend over backwards to accommodate him, but MWD does say it takes one to improve things from their side, and someone has to be the one to do it. And it's for your D at the end of the day.

And good job not calling H back late at night. If he does really want to talk, he'll try again...and it will be when you want to talk too.

Maybe your H is noticing any changes you've made and thats a good thing. I hope he carries on seeing those changes and realises some of the mistakes he's made. Here's hoping!
But keep your chin up Nicole, you're doing great!


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Be careful about reading things into him "looking at" you, and other things. Yes, it could mean, he's having second thoughts, but it could be that the burrito he had for lunch is giving him momentary indigestion.... I just don't want you to get your hopes up.

As far as him seeing a therapist, bring it up, but don't push it.

Also, I don't believe it's unusual for the children to be clingy, but as soon as you are out of sight, you are out of their minds, and they're fine with the other parent.

That said, if he sees spending time with your daughter as a "job", rather than a special, wonderful time, then he's an a$$, and no amount of counselling is going to fix that.


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Quote:
I did actually have my husband stay here at our apartment with our daughter last night and I left to go out. It was much better. She didn't have that fear of wondering where she was going to go and my husband didn't have to 'waste' his time driving around. She could play with her toys and eat the food that I prepared for her. When I returned my husband said it was much better, so at least for now I guess we'll continue with him coming and me leaving.


Ok - so - here's an opportunity for you.
You see - the WAS so often wants to think you are just sitting there, waiting for them patiently, their safe "Plan B" in case their new life/new OP doesn't work out.
You don't want to date while you're hoping to reconcile - because you don't want to do anything that they can point to and say in reconciliation "well, you cheated too so it's just the same " (when it's NOT).

BUT - it's ok to make them THINK you MIGHT be dating, because sometimes that lights a fire under them to reconcile if they begin to realize some other man could snatch you up.

So - here's what you do:
Have H watch her at your house.
When he arrives, be dressed up like you would be to go out on a date - perfume, earrings, looking good.
If he asks where you're going, just say "Out with a friend" "No, you don't know them" or "Dancing with the girls"
Then just go do whatever you were going to do - or if you have nothing to do, go to a coffee shop and read a book or go to a movie by yourself. Just be gone from the house looking like you could be going out somewhere.

Chances are good he'll be wondering where you are and with whom. This can be a good thing, and better than him finally regretting things once you actually HAVED moved on.

Also, after a couple of times, when he arrives have a dozen roses in a vase. If he asks, they're from a "friend". wink

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Nicole,
I want to ditto what kml said. Make sure you remain mysterious and hawt! Also, I think the plan of havnig H over to spend quality time with DD is an excellent idea. The goal is to facilitate his relationship with his daughter regardless if it's conventional or not. This builds positive memories with his daughter, allows him to build confidence solo parenting and to associate positive feelings with his child. It's win/win.

Be very careful about suggesting/hinting/advising about IC or any counseling of any sort. Some people just aren't into therapy. My WH is case in point, I dragged him to 2 counselors, to Retrouvialle, had him watch videos on reconciliation. All resulted in burning heaps of failure with a HUGE regression back to his cold and angry shell. Finally I returned to what worked, DBing with joy, detachment and gentleness. He is blossoming under this right now. The WAS does not want any suggestion or hint of agenda, which in my case was reconciliation at any cost. That was a mistake.

So now I am moving forward without any expectations and I am shocked at the consistent turnaround I am seeing in WH. So keep doing what works and strive towards the goal of loving detachment. A lot of vets here can be very strident that there is only one way when the fact is, DBing is about finding the formula to each situation that works and throwing out what doesn't work.


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BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
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Jim, thanks for your input. My hopes are not up because my husband already left once and didn't express interest in fixing the marriage when he returned. There's not much more I can do to make someone want to be a husband or father if they have no interest, or if it's just a burden holding them back from everything they want to do. On the other hand, I want to be sure I did everything possible on my end to save the marriage since the best possible outcome would be to reconcile and give our daughter a family with a mom and dad. If there's any chance he might want that, I'll try to give him another few weeks or months to come back.

KML, I tried a limited of what you suggested last week. I wore something nice than usual and some makeup and acted happy when I left the house. Even though I only went grocery shopping I tried to present a slightly different image. Now I'm double sick with what I already had and a bad cold so it might take a few days to try again, but I will. I've also made plans almost every day with my daughter and when my husband does call or text about something he's seen that we're out, busy, and enjoying our time. I don't think he cares or notices so this will probably only benefit my daughter and I.

PsySara, I ended up not suggesting counseling as you said. It is working out better having my husband come here, so we'll keep doing that for now. I'm trying to do the same as you - not show any sign of an agenda. I'll do this for a few weeks, maybe another two months, but I can't wait much longer than that. This has been going on for years and I need to start working again and trying to rebuild my life. I never imagined I'd stop working for even one year. There's the consulting business I started but I haven't been able to grow it here in this city and no longer see a future in this city. My situation may be different than yours because my husband immigrated here and I supported him for many years. Now that he's the supporter maybe this is his real self, it's hard to say. Maybe he just used me and now my daughter and I are just an annoyance that he's trying to get rid of.

All, I really wish there was more data on the long-term outcome of marriages fixed by DB methods. Yes, many of us do save our marriages in the short-term, but how many of us stay together until the end of our lives? Yes, it depends on many factors, but some people have major character flaws like cheating, addiction, etc.. or shouldn't have gotten married in the first place. Some of the spouses here have done really bad things. I'm among those who still wish to reconcile, even after those bad things, but my husband already left once, came back after I did a good job of practicing DB techniques like the 180, but now he's gone again.

The counselors and psychologist I've been seeing, and some of my friends, think it may be years before my husband decides what he wants in life. For now he's too preoccupied with his own interests to care about anyone else.

I'd be happy if he wakes up sometime in the next few months and wants to fix everything, but realistically I doubt it will happen. I guess we're one example of an initial DB success story but either I'm to blame for my husband not wanting to stay or he never wanted to re-commit and was just using the convenience of the marriage until he had a better option.

I don't know....I will keep trying a bit longer but feel really sad that it may still not be enough.

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Nicole,
It ain't over until you say so. If the marathon causes more pain than gain then even MWD says to walk away. (I watched the LRT about 6 times) If you plan to move to another city to get your financial stability under you then do it as soon as possible. DBing isn't about waiting in the wings, it's about moving forward and if the WAW decides to rejoin you then YOU decide if you'll let them back in that lane.

Nothing bad can come from him building a bond with his daughter. Even if he stays away and becomes a permanent walk-away then you can look your daughter in the eye and promise you tried every.single.thing.

IF you move on and your H feels the absence he may finally come to the realization that his troubles and unhappiness are of his own making.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
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PsySara,

Thanks for your feedback. It captures the situation well. That's what I understood - that DB'ing isn't about waiting or staying in a holding pattern even if you try to stay busy.

I've tried to do what I can considering the circumstances here where we are now, but no matter what I do in this city I won't be moving forward until I move to a city where I can work in my field of expertise. It's hard to explain what it's like to not be working. I agreed to reduce my work to care for my daughter because I was having trouble finding a good nanny, and then stopped it all together recently to start a business thinking I would start over here. Then I took my daughter overseas during her summer break and then this happened with my husband, we moved, we got hit by one of the hurricanes, and I got sick.

After all that I don't see the business I started as a good investment and just want to get back to a 'real' job until it makes more sense to be self-employed someday.

It's been so hard being sick. I don't even know if I'll ever be fully healthy again, but I can't sit here and do nothing based on that fact. My husband proved that he wasn't there for me when I needed him, nor for our daughter, so being alone somewhere else is about the same as being near him here.

I plan to move on, literally, to another city, within the coming months. I question how I'll handle it with a new employer, alone with a toddler, if she gets sick and I need to take time off or if my health gets worse and I can't work normally. There are major risks. But being here trying to 'GAL' isn't working for me because I can go to church and plan play dates every day of the week for my daughter but without working and being financially independent I don't feel empowered.

My main hesitation is that my daughter will be the biggest loser if I can't find a flexible job, which I'll try to do, because she'll be stuck at a school or daycare whereas now she's in school in the morning and with me the rest of the day.

Sorry that's a long post but it's so difficult trying to conclude that someone who walked away isn't worth waiting for. It's so hard to visualize a new life where so much could go wrong, and I'm already in a fragile state, but what choice do I have after years of being pushed aside by a husband who's busy cheating and blowing money on himself and his hobbies?

Tonight it got worse because my husband didn't come for his normal two hours yesterday because I had family in town. He said he'd come tonight. Tonight we didn't hear from him at all. Several hours after he was supposed to come I texted him and he said he's tired and he'll come tomorrow at the normal time.

This to me is unacceptable. He couldn't have sent a four word text to say "I'm not coming today?" I told our daughter he'd be coming and we waited and he didn't show up. This has happened multiple times so she never knows if he's coming or not.

To make matters worse, my husband announced he'll be taking off work this coming weekend to visit his family up North. That's great for him, but I wonder in my mind how he can't spend two hours with his child but he can easily take a weekend off to visit his family? And of course that means he won't be taking our daughter this weekend.

This informal separation isn't working so I'll consult with multiple lawyers in the coming week and try to see how the child care issues can be handled from a legal standpoint and how divorce should be handled from two different states (where we are now and where we plan to move).

I still don't wish to divorce, but I also know that the LRT means we're near the end of this process and it will take several months of planning to make everything happen just to move and then it could take months after that to find a job and get my daughter into a new school.

I can't find the DB book so I ordered another one and it's not here yet, but I recall it saying that with the LRT you have to be ready to divorce and follow-through with it, otherwise you lose your credibility. So I'll plan for it and if there's a total miracle and my husband suddenly wants to work things out then great, I'd be the happiest person in the world just to have that final chance even though it still may not work.

The saddest thing for me is that I'm a practical person and I'd even be happy to make an arrangement with my husband where he has freedom in exchange for some semblance of a normal family life for our daughter, but even that he doesn't want. I guess there's always a chance our move will shock him into realizing what he's doing and re-thinking his decisions, but I'm losing hope for that too.




Hi Everyone,

I don't mean to keep rattling off long messages but I'm really struggling. Last night I stayed up late to check apartment prices, preschool tuition, out-of-pocket health insurance, job prospects, etc.. in the city where I want to move. It's where I previously lived for a long time and have a big network but unfortunately it's one of the most expensive places in the country.

Unfortunately, when adding everything up, along with breaking the lease I have here and moving costs, along with factoring in how the transition will affect my daughter (we've moved six times in the three years), it doesn't seem like picking up and moving in two or three months is realistic.

I'm unemployed and drained of cash so all of the above would need to be paid for by my husband. Preferably we'd divorce first but that's another big chunk of cash. My husband is making good money but he's spending way more than he makes, somewhat wrecklessly, so I don't believe he can or will come up with the cash needed for us to move quickly.

I don't want to line up a job first because usually employers want someone to start within a few weeks. We'd have to move immediately and I'd start work immediately. That would be a total shock to my daughter. She'd go from spending most of her days with me to most of her days in a strange new place that I couldn't even fully vet. There may not even be any openings at schools for her. It's also hard with new employers because you have to accrue sick time but kids can get sick at any time. Maybe my illness will get worse too.

So I'm just wondering what anyone else thinks is a better plan? It seems I'm stuck here indefinitely. Maybe that's for the best, in case my husband wakes up one day later on and wants to fix everything and there's still a chance, but it feels like time is wasting away.




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Even if you can't find "the job" I would consider doing something part time where you're at for no other reason than resume building. HR folks stare long and hard at gaps in employment. What is your skill set? I am a physician but spent about 20 years working various odd jobs; as a manager at a retail store, data entry jobs through temp agencies, worked in a call center explaining claims and how they were paid over the phone, even worked holiday work at the malls. At this point you would be working to pay for childcare but it does start the process of filling in the gaps. Plus you may be able to find more steady/benefits job while in the market.

I found out the medical transcriptionist makes $12 a discharge summary (basically summarizes treatment while reading through the chart.) She does about 70 a day. Do the math. Freaking awesome, right? These are just a few things rattling through my head.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
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April '17-Letting go
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Originally Posted By: NicoleR
All, I really wish there was more data on the long-term outcome of marriages fixed by DB methods. Yes, many of us do save our marriages in the short-term, but how many of us stay together until the end of our lives? Yes, it depends on many factors, but some people have major character flaws like cheating, addiction, etc.. or shouldn't have gotten married in the first place. Some of the spouses here have done really bad things.


Nicole,

It all depends on whether or not you can truly forgive your spouse. I cant speak for all, but im sure some people DB and get success but never truly forgive their spouse and let go of the resentment. Forgiving is much easier than truly letting go of the resentment and anger. you just have to be honest with yourself. I would think DB is the easy part but at this point you are just working on yourself. Afterwards it is trying to find compromise without losing yourself in the relationship again. Honestly i dont see my relationship getting here, but im sure it can be scary as heck to trust your spouse like you did before the BD. But to me fear is just another motivator to make myself better.


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I wrote a long response earlier and my computer re-started right before I sent it. Just another thing that I can't control in my life right now. Thanks for your responses Sara and Rex. I'll try to re-write the message tonight.

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Nicole, I might be wrong, but it seems to me you are thinking of all the reasons not to do something, and it's paralyzing you and leaving you in limbo.

I don't think there's any wrong answers. I think need to commit to one of the options and go for it, whether it's to move back to the old city, or get a job locally doing something, anything.


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I wrote another complete response yesterday and just as I was wrapping up the power went out and we lost internet connection. This forum doesn't seem to have the technology to save a draft so it was all gone again. That's bizarre to lose the same response twice! I guess it wasn't meant to be.

Sara, Rex, and Jim, thanks so much for your responses. I'll just quickly respond before something else happens - I can work-from-home as a consultant on US government projects so I'll try to find a short-term contract. My husband left two years ago and said he was sorry he returned but wasn't willing to put in effort to fix our marriage. While I believe I could forgive him and try to let go of the past if he truly wanted to change for the better and re-commit, that hasn't happened. I'm trying to practice what's in the DB book right now, and did so when he left the first time, but I guess I went wrong in not having a strategy in place after he returned the first time. Everything was tense and he kept promising to work on the marriage after he did x, y, and z but it never happened. I kept waiting, not acting like the loving wife I used to be but just waiting and doing my own thing except for approaching him every month or two to ask what he's thinking and when he could work on the marriage. Finally, Jim, yes I do feel paralyzed. It's the first time in my life when there's no option that is either realistic or good. The unrealistic ones I guess I need to drop and go with an undesirable but possible one. I have to start over again in every regard - as a single mom, with my career now that I can't travel and work 12 hour days like I used to do, with my health, financially, in a new apartment / city, etc.. I have to re-define my life but it's really hard because I have a toddler who needs to be #1. I'm hoping to define a path quickly, which leads me to a question ---->

What if I told my husband of my plans to move and the financial support that I'll need? I still think moving and getting a job in my field is the best option. I can't wait until the week before I move though to talk to him because he needs to help financially. This means he needs time to adapt his spending and save for what we need. Or, if he says no, he can't help, it's better for me to know that so I can either fight for help during the divorce process or accept that I have to stay here. Is there any reason why I can't talk to him in the next few weeks? How does that affect my otherwise practicing the LRT?

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Hi Nicole, I think on the financial front it is less about 'asking for help' and more about agreeing suitable financial separation terms. From what I recall he has stayed in the family home and you are renting an apartment.

When XH and I S, I walked away from the marital home - I couldn't bear to stay there alone. We also had a city flat, which XH used for work. Effectively I became homeless and I also left my job as I left the area to move back in with my parents. After a few months I asked XH for some assistance in renting an apartment and he reluctantly agreed to offer six months rental cost and then I'd need to sort myself out (charming..)

Well, I did sort myself out, but I was basically broke for 2 years whilst our D went through and the marital home and city flat were sold. I'm now financially comfortable and thankful for that. But I did let my strong desire to save the marriage impact on how robustly I dealt with him and I did suffer financially for a while. I was lucky to have my Dad in support, and he kindly helped out a little too.

So, the big message from me is - this isn't 'help' from him. This is getting a separation agreement in place, which deals with financials, custody and any other matters that need to be agreed and in place for you all...

Xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Hi Nicole,

I agree with Sotto, this is about your daughter as well as you. I'm sure he'd want to see her and you financially okay and you set up in a city where you'll be able to find suitable work.

I understand how anxious moving to a different city when you're unsure about your health and will have no support network for your daughter. That would be a worry. You'll need to find a support network there as soon as possible...if possible. I wish I could offer more concrete advice, only to say...if you're in a job where you're getting better pay, you'll be able to afford better childcare if you do fall ill. But also, if the financial aspects of your life were taken care of, your stress levels will reduce, and hopefully that will have a knock on effect with your health.

I hope your H will be cooperative in regards to helping you relocate. Good luck x


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Sotto, that sounds like a long ordeal for you. I'm sure it'll be the same for me. It's so great that you had your parents to help. My husband and I signed our own financial separation agreement because our state doesn't recognize separation. It's only for our existing situation though and doesn't reflect the costs of moving and living in the new city. I need to see if there's anything other than divorce in our state that would require him to help.

Caz, thanks for your encouragement. I do actually have more of a support network in the city where we'd be moving. I lived there for 13 years and have many friends and colleagues. I'd probably get a live-in nanny if I have to work full-time. There's still a lot of risk though - not knowing how separating my daughter from her father will affect her and not knowing if my health will get better or worse.

All, my husband canceled his coming to see our daughter again today. He's done this a lot lately. He says he's busy working on his million dollar house where he's living alone and the rest of the time he's 'tired' from working. I really can't tell if he's mentally ill or just the 'worst' father in the world. I was so sad, so upset, so angry when he called to cancel again today.

It seems this marriage can't be saved. I'd still love to wait and hope and practice the LRT, but there's so much more that I haven't even written about on this forum that indicate my husband has no intention of fixing the marriage. It's all so overwhelming.

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Originally Posted By: NicoleR

What if I told my husband of my plans to move and the financial support that I'll need?......
Or, if he says no, he can't help, it's better for me to know that so I can either fight for help during the divorce process or accept that I have to stay here. Is there any reason why I can't talk to him in the next few weeks?


Will talking to him give you information you need to make a plan? I think the answer is yes, so I would talk to him.
The way I see it, you have nothing to lose.

Originally Posted By: Sotto
This is getting a separation agreement in place, which deals with financials, custody and any other matters that need to be agreed and in place for you all...

Xx


this^^^^. It stinks, it's hard, it's painful. But otherwise, where are you? Broke, living apart, and stuck in a marriage with a man who doesn't put effort into meeting your needs, and can't bother to spend time with his daughter.


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To me it sounds like you've got your answer, and moving would work best for you two. You say you don't know how separating your daughter from her father will affect her...well he's not exactly beating down the door to see her now. Putting your life, your career on hold waiting for him to 'wake up' isn't helping either of you right now. Maybe moving away will be the wake up call he needs...maybe it won't. But which scenario is working for you? Definitely not this one.

Weigh up the risks, if you still feel moving is the right thing to do, then ask him for assistance. Of course your daughter will be upset, but her (and your) expectations that he'll visit will be reduced and theres always Skype. Out of sight, you may begin to feel less overwhelmed...and I know that feeling well! But maybe just the action of doing something will make you feel less swamped in feeling lousy. I always feel better once I'm taking action. And you'll have less time to give H a second thought because all your energy will be going towards the move, and your daughter. H may just get to realise he's not number one top of your priorities anymore!

It won't be easy but nothing about separating is ever easy.

Write some pro and con lists...and take some action. Hugs


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Thanks Jim and Caz.

Jim, your affirmation was helpful. I did talk to my husband tonight by phone. I told him I want to get back to my career and move to the city where I'll find a job. I ran through some numbers with him. He kept saying ok, we need to meet and talk in person. He said he'll come tomorrow. I offered for him to fly to the new city one weekend per month to take our daughter so he's not 'burdened' by seeing her multiple times per week. He gave some excuses about how he's just busy but he likes to see her. Nothing really good or bad came from the call. My husband didn't say anything that would indicate he wants to stay married, but he didn't totally say no to helping financially when we move.

Caz, yes, perhaps the move will be a wake-up call for my husband or will at least get my life back-on-track. I've been thinking about it and researching the pro's and con's as much as possible. I asked my daughter tonight what she thinks. She's only three, so of course she can't really comprehend what I'm asking, but she said she'd be happy to move to the new city and wouldn't mind seeing her father less. She didn't seem too affected when he didn't show up today. I guess if we get divorced she'll grow up never knowing what it was like to have a father present and involved in her every day life. I'm sure she'll have a lot of thoughts about that in the future. I hope she's not mad at me someday. I loved my husband and gave him second chances for years. Even now I'd change all my plans and stay here if he committed to counseling and other actions to reconcile because I don't want to divorce him. My other worst fear is that something bad will happen to me and my daughter won't have someone good to raise her and she'll be alone in the world. For that reason I really wish to stay with my husband even if it's a practical marriage, but I can't want that by myself. He has to want it too. The other stuff you say is all true. Thanks again for your encouragement. I haven't seen any updates from you on your thread but I'll keep checking.

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Your projections into the future are overlooking a lot of other possibilities. What about the one where you remarry a great guy who makes an excellent stepfather? Or the one where you stay in the marriage for the sake of your child and she grows up with an emotionally distant father who makes her feel she's never good enough and an unhealthy marriage as her main role model?

Some advice for the face to face discussion with your H - write up an index card with advice to yourself and your main points you want to make. Put it in your pocket and excuse yourself to the restroom to reread it if you feel things are getting off track.

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Nicole, i just stimbled upon your post. There seems to be so many similarities in our husbands. Mine has checked out again, and we have 2 children. Our S is the same age as your d, he first checked out when he was about 9 months old. He had an A and then came back grovelling after I’d db’d my a$$ off. He checked out good and proper when pregnant with our second child. He’s now announced he is doing a cultural arranged m (he is arranging himself). Meanwhile, he had been sleeping with me, and telling me he had been having regrets about leaving (i did not know about this girl).
He’s been doing the same as your h and not bothering showing up when he should be to see the kids. Leaving me 100% parenting alone.

As an outsider, it’s always easier to give advise to someone else. But i would say to honestly consider the move. It might be the best way to find some peace and sanity for yourself and rebuild yourself. Particularly, if you would have more support, i think for the sake of your health it would be an excellent idea. Wrt your daughter hating you, i highly doubt that. You’ve put your all into this, you’ve tried to make your m work. You’ve protected her throughout this and been there for her- never worry about that.


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KML, I think this is one of my major weaknesses - not being able to visualize the good things that may happen. I'm too risk averse nowadays (I wasn't previously). It's possible I'll find someone new, but probably not any time soon. I'd guess it'd be five or ten years before I'd be a good partner for anyone and that long for my daughter to be more independent. I don't mean to shut out possibilities which I may be doing. I'll keep trying to improve in that area. Thanks for the tip about the index card. I'll do that. I don't know yet if my husband will actually want to talk tonight. He came late to take our daughter and he asked why I can't find a babysitter (meaning why do I have to come?). It's obvious there's no need on my part to say more than the bare minimum. Most likely he'll say he's too tired too talk, delay it, and then keep delaying it. This has been his strategy for years now except for the night in August when he said he's leaving again. Thanks for your excellent advice in any case!

Cherry, thanks so much for your encouragement. I tried to read through your thread but wow, there's so much history! I'll keep reading! I'm not sure if I caught everything but it sounds like your husband is also of Middle Eastern descent or from a Muslim majority country? Mine is. I can see the similarities between our situations. Our daughter was around a year old when my husband started checking out and saying stuff like "I don't like my life. I don't like being married. Our daughter was a mistake..." Only difference is that it sounds like your husband was / is still attracted to you whereas mine simply said he's not. For the first few years he would say I was beautiful but I'm sure once there was another woman in the picture, one that didn't just have a baby, who's young and free, and has lots of energy to have fun then suddenly I wasn't appealing anymore. That must be so hard with two little kids and working. That's not fair. I'll respond more about your situation on your thread ASAP but it seems we have no choice but to do the hard work by ourselves without a partner. It's so sad for the innocent children. I'd do anything to fix my marriage for my daughter. I've been following the DB guidelines but there's no change whatsoever. If anything my husband is so happy that I stopped calling and don't bother him anymore.

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It’s so hard when it seems like all is impossible, but my situation has been like that in the past, but then it has turned around. The only way i got through last time was by picking myself up and trudging on. For sure faking it til we made it. He is of Pakistani decent, but fourth generation British born. I’m first generation Latina born in Britain. But we are both born and raised Muslim. His dad left when he was young and he always swore he’d never treat a woman the way his dad treated his mom or do that to his children.
I’ve been told i was a mistake and he shouldn’t have married me, he’s not sure he loved me. But that statement has swung like the wind i don’t know what to believe. I think it’s all part of the script tbh to justify their decisions. I feel as though he has just used me for sex. And i know he does not like the thought of anyone else having me. Our entire relationship he told me hoe people said he was punching above his weight. But i never for a second, not even now have looked at another man.
The appeal of the ow is just that, no responsibilities and all the time in the world for them. Meanwhile in the real world we are trying to juggle relationships, children and careers, with little or no time for ourselves.
My advise i gave to Sara, i give to you too: when the little one is in bed, turn your house into a spa. Face mask, paint your nails. Anything to make you feel a bit more confident for you. Hell, head to Victoria secrets and treat yourself- for you. Hair done, new clothes. Anything that gives you a little attention will do your confidence wonders. You really truly deserve it


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T 5
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Quote:
He came late to take our daughter and he asked why I can't find a babysitter (meaning why do I have to come?


Quote:
Our daughter was a mistake.



Quote:
I'd do anything to fix my marriage for my daughter.


Why? This is a man who sadly hasn't bonded to his daughter, thinks she was a mistake, drives around to avoid interacting with her, and would rather you got a sitter so he didn't have to visit her. What makes you think he's capable of being a decent father?

If he doesn't care about his child why are you fighting to keep him in her life? This isn't a man who was a good father until MLC hit and he went out of his man. This is a man who hasn't ever been the father he should have been.

When and if the time comes, negotiate for as much money upfront as you can get in a divorce, as there is no guarantee he won't default on his child support obligations.

Plan your life for you and your daughter. If he eventually changes he can try to catch up to you. But don't put yourself in a vulnerable position waiting on him. Life won't be easy as a single mom but that's what you are now anyway. You're blessed in that you have a good career to return to - go back now while you still can.

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Originally Posted By: NicoleR
I've been following the DB guidelines but there's no change whatsoever.


There may never be any change.....

Originally Posted By: kml

Plan your life for you and your daughter. If he eventually changes he can try to catch up to you. But don't put yourself in a vulnerable position waiting on him. Life won't be easy as a single mom but that's what you are now anyway.


.... which is why this^^ is such great advice.


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Cherry, I like your advice. I also admire the fact that you're able to do those things at night! About every other night I fall asleep together with my daughter from exhaustion and the other nights I mostly feel listless by the time I get my daughter to sleep, but I need to work on changing her schedule, getting her to bed early, and using the night time more wisely. I'll seriously work on that this week.

KML, I don't have much optimism for my husband as a father. I think he's capable if he has the interest. He just doesn't have it. I'd do anything to fix my marriage if I had a partner that was willing to fix it. I've tried to make the conditions right for that to happen but it hasn't happened after years of trying. I will definitely ask for what I need in a divorce settlement. I have a budget already made up for the move and all associated expenses regarding my 'new' life. I'll keep refining it.

Jim, that is true. Over Thanksgiving I think my husband had a brief moment where he realized how badly he's screwed up and felt sorry. Then I think he woke up the next day and said to himself "oh well."

All, I did talk to my husband last night about my plans to move and the need for his financial support. He made a few statements that I'll list in quotations with my responses afterwards and my thoughts in parenthesis:

My husband: "You should have a job lined up first, then you can think about moving." ----> Me: That's true. Ideally a job would come first, but I don't have anyone to watch our daughter while I travel for interviews plus it's unlikely in my field that they'd hire someone based in a far away state who promises to move in the future. I need to be there, ready-to-work, with my daughter already adapted to a new school. Then when the right offer comes I can start right away.

My husband: "Ok I'll start looking for a job there too." ---> Me: I'd prefer to have some space to start over (not really sure what else to say...if he can't work on the marriage then why does he want to follow us?).

My husband: "If I don't find a new job I'll start working one week on, one week off so I can come to see <daughter's name.>" ---> Me: Ok (I'm thinking seriously? You can barely see her now and suddenly you'll change your entire work schedule?).

My husband: "Once the house is done I'll work on everything (meaning his life, our marriage, etc..)" ---> Me: (No response from me. I'll believe that when it actually happens)

My husband: "I'm not thinking of divorce right now." ---> Me: I'm considering it and I'm trying to understand the process here in this state and if we live in two different states (I really am. There's nothing to lose as many of you have noted and the DB book says to follow through if it comes to that.)

I believe the above statements from my husband do reveal something. I believe right now he's so focused on his life that he's not thinking about my daughter and I at all. He takes it for granted that we're here and he probably doesn't expect me to move on. It seems the normal DB techniques didn't really cause any alarm for my husband, but us moving does affect him on some level. Perhaps when he sees us actually move he'll finally think about the consequences of his actions. Maybe there's that last glimmer of hope where he'd 'wake up.' I do believe by that time I'll be strong enough to stand up for what's right.

The previous situation where I agreed to be just roommates until my husband was ready to work on the marriage didn't work at all. But sadly I don't see it being easy to forgive and love a man who turned his back on me when I was sick, who ignores his child, who's had many affairs and was only sorry he was caught, and who generally fell into a life of sin and greed. There'd need to be a true awakening on his part, a desire to face God and cleanse himself from his sick lifestyle, and a commitment to a long-term treatment plan and a pattern of long-term change before we could try again. I wish it would be much easier than that, but these are serious issues.

The final thought is just my own regret at what I've done wrong and what I could have done differently. In my case, being too nice and weak gave my husband the green light to do whatever he wants. I need to work on changing myself. Thanks again everyone for your input.

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Hi Nicole,

Sorry I've not been around, I've been battling a cold, loads of commission orders and lots of snow with a manic rescue dog that still needs and wants long walks and attention.

Well done on the conversation with your H. I feel you stood your ground well. H can say as much as he wants but its actions that tell all. He didn't say an awful lot, maybe he's digesting it, who knows. And maybe you're correct and he doesn't believe you'll follow through. Who cares what he thinks...unless H is putting obstacles in your way regarding moving your D away from him. Do you need his permission in writing? I'm unsure about your laws regarding moving children away from their parents.

So carry on with your plans, wipe him out from your mind and look for that new life in the new city. If H has an epiphany you can decide if he's worth your new found confidence...and if he doesn't, then you've got your new life and a wonderful daughter.

H is making it easy for you to leave right now, so go with it, if thats the direction you wish to take.

Go after what you want. I think you're doing great!


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Just a little add on...I feel I didn't stand up for myself enough. I did ask for what I wanted but maybe I wasn't clear enough. My IC says I was clear enough, and people like us go through feelings of guilt, because we are nice people.

I sometimes wish I could be more like my H, and not feel so strongly or care so much...and then I realise that hey, I like being a caring person, I like being nice. Maybe I should just be a little more demanding in the future though. I need to be stronger when I need something or want something.

This is how being with someone like my H makes me feel...unbalanced, off kilter and not capable of relying on my intuition. But I've recognised it and am working on it.


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It’s not easy, and i should really sleep once I’ve got them settled. The 3 year old generally falls asleep waaay before baby. But i think it’s my stubbornness and want to do a little something for me.

I think that conversation went well. His desire to come with you may mean something or it may mean nothing. He does sound a bit in limbo, you may well have grabbed his attention a bit to think, “hang on, she’s not going to sit around waiting for me. This attractive woman and my daughter are planning a life without me”. He might not know if he wants to be with you, but you can bet he doesn’t want anyone else to”. Just be wary of any crumb throwing he may do in order to try and get your attention. Mine favours some latest drama to try and hook me in. Like a mug I’ve fallen for it a few times.

I also find myself like caz; a bit too nice for my own good. I sometimes wish i could be a bit more selfish like wh!


Me 26 H 25
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Baby born 4/14
BD: 1/15
EA: 2/15
PA: 4/15
reconciling: 4/15
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The key to DBing is moving forward, spiritually, emotionally and psychologically, sometimes physically too. This can do two things, move you to a place where you don't actually want the WS or it can make the WS realize you are moving on without them and be the wake up call necessary for them to get to the root of their own dysfunction and reconcile.

You are moving forward, your WS appears to be cake eating and using you for plan B. I suspect when you move it will shock him into action. The tricky part (mistake I made) was to instantly let them back in without boundaries. It always easier to start from scratch and build things right rather than try to rebuild on the same foundation. So blow this popcicle stand and start looking through the classifieds, put your resume out there on the interwebs and greasing the wheel! A lot of companies will do interviews through webcam and don't require in person.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
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Quote:
There'd need to be a true awakening on his part, a desire to face God and cleanse himself from his sick lifestyle, and a commitment to a long-term treatment plan and a pattern of long-term change before we could try again. I wish it would be much easier than that, but these are serious issues.


Agreed. There's a WHOLE lot of growth and change he'd have to do to make this right. Don't settle for less.

Quote:
In my case, being too nice and weak gave my husband the green light to do whatever he wants. I need to work on changing myself.


You know, I don't think of myself as a doormat - I'm a strong-minded woman, a little too opinionated for some really. But on the other hand - I'm easy-going and accommodating. I thought that's what you do in a marriage, be flexible. But in retrospect, my ex took advantage of that. I should have demanded more of him, demanded he treat me better, demanded my fair share of everything - time alone, money, attention.

I think about the girls I knew in college, the ones who had men falling over themselves to give them jewelry and take them on fancy dates. They weren't prettier than me and they definitely weren't as smart or entertaining as me. But they had one thing I didn't - THEY DIDN'T CARE. If a guy didn't step up to their expectations they would just get another one. The guys knew this and it drove them crazy trying to woo them. I despised it at the time but now I understand better - being independent and not NEEDING someone puts you in the position of power.

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Nicole, interesting that H wants to move with you. Let's see if he follows through, you know.... because......

Originally Posted By: NicoleR
he woke up the next day and said to himself "oh well." .


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KML advise above is excellent. It’s a realisation that we should all hit at one point. There’s plenty of women who we have all come across who will use men for such things. My own morals i have never/would never do that. However the lesson we can all draw from this is that people want what they cannot get, it’s like the thrill of the chase. If we detatch, become less available and mysterious. The natural curiousity will creep in


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Thanks Sara, Jim, KML, and Cherry! Sorry to respond late. It's been an exceptionally busy week with some professional activities I took on and with some visitors from out-of-town.

I'll probably move in April or May. It will be very difficult to do it sooner than that. Fortunately I can probably call up old contacts and find a job through word-of-mouth but I feel strongly about moving first and making sure my daughter is ok before I start a new job. I'm still open to doing short-term contracts after the holidays and will possibly take on one or two for financial reasons....my husband isn't paying off my credit card as he agreed and I don't want to wait for him. I've always paid off the full balance every month and still have a perfect credit score which is about the only thing in my entire life that's perfect at the moment. I can't let that slip.

I'm trying my best to see myself as alone and to imagine the future as just me, without a partner. This is my worst nightmare but I'm trying to get used to it. KML, what you say about the girls in college is definitely true and that men do like women who they have to pursue. I used to be that way and guess what? I had many great men after me! How many do I have now? Zero. Of course it's because I'm married and older and not in the market and everything now is different.

The greatest struggle for me right now is being positive. I feel negative thoughts are invading my mind faster than I can manage them. I see myself and my situation as complicated because more than anything I'd love to be married in the future and share life with someone else. All around me I see happy couples everywhere. I took my daughter to the local botanical garden last week for the Christmas lights and I was the absolute only single woman there. It seemed like literally every couple was holding hands and in a dream-like state. I cried the entire time as I pushed my daughter in her stroller and kept wiping away tears as I tried to point out special things to her.

I still wake up in the mornings feeling like I'm living a nightmare even though this has been going on for years. I believe I have to take these huge, giant leaps to start a new life that are so monumental that I can't imagine how I'll pull it off.

But one thing that really bothers me about my mindset is how I just don't believe I'll find anyone else. I can't even imagine loving another man. There's only been about five in my whole life that even appealed to me. I guess I'm very specific. I also am super conservative and never dated. I had one long-term relationship that started out as friends and then met my husband who I didn't date because he's Muslim. In the US it's very normal to jump into a sex-before-marriage relationship but I don't want that and don't think I'll ever be open to it. On the other hand, I can't imagine meeting anyone new and marrying them quickly because I don't want to make another mistake. So who will really want a 40+ year old woman who doesn't show physical affection and who has a young kid? And if there is anyone like that, would I even like them? I just can't imagine there being anyone...I can't feel that hope or optimism. I feel totally lost trying to ever date because I don't want that...I don't know how to do it and obviously I don't fit into American society. I fit much, much better into the conservative Middle Eastern society. There everything makes sense to me. There I feel I could meet someone, but guess what? Being divorced with a child in that part of the world is a very bad thing. Very few men would want someone like that and any man in his 40's who's single in that part of the world is a risk because the vast majority marry young and stay married for life.

That is a long complicated explanation but that's an example of how I feel self-defeating and I know this is wrong but can't really figure out how to open my mind and change. What if I really wish to find a new husband but just can't follow the normal process? In these moments I'd do anything to have just a practical arrangement with my current husband where we can live together even without love just have some sense of stability.

I am seeing a counselor but I guess I haven't focused much yet on future issues, mainly the current issue of my health and coping with my husband being gone. I guess I need to schedule more sessions to find out why I can't be more positive.

I am on the other hand very busy with social and professional activities and with my daughter - my husband see's that I'm always busy and knows I'm planning to move but he doesn't care. DB isn't working for us. The only odd comment from my husband was the one where he said "I'll work on everything when I do x, y, z." That's what he's been saying for years but he never works on anything. I forget what the x, y, z was last week. I think just his house and his current work schedule. He also said "I'm not thinking about divorce right now." So like PsySara says I guess he's happy having the best of both worlds - a family nearby as Plan B and all the freedom in the world to date whoever he's dating now and enjoy his life as a single man. I guess only when I move and file for divorce will he stop to think about his life without my daughter and I.

Anyway, I hope we all get through this and still have lives left to live. It'd be so great for anything good to happen at the start of 2018. I wish you all a peaceful and reflective end-of-2017.

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The hopelessness and despair you're feeling right now is very normal. If you lost a close relative, you'd give yourself the luxury of mourning them, wouldn't you? The way I figure it, I needed time to mourn the death of my marriage. It will take a while. But things will get better.

You despair of finding a husband, or even a man you're interested in.... stop that right now. Do you know what men find attractive? Ok, besides the obvious, it's confidence, just like what women find attractive in men. It may take a while to get it back, but you will.

You want a conservative man? Preferably Middle Eastern? I'm sure there are plenty of them around, or at least men with the same values, but you may have to look. Maybe you'll have to look hard. Look where they are... churches, mosques....clubs online for conservative Muslim men..... And until then? If you like, date. Date lots of different men. If they pressure you do something you're not comfortable with, they're dicks. Uber home and move on to the next one. Of course, vet them carefully, meet them in public, and carry mace.....

And honestly, if you would prefer stability over love, maybe that's the solution for you. I wouldn't, but that's me.

You are going through the worst of it right now, and I'm sorry. The time of year doesn't make it easier. But things will get better.


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Nicole

I saw your post to Cherry and having read your threads can see the wonderful perceptive Sotto encouraging you to take excellent care of you.

I echo that thought.

This process is a Marathon not a sprint. And extreme self care, I mean extreme self care, ordinary day to day stuff is insufficient.

Van der Kolk in his excellent book The body keeps the score, talks about the physiological effects of the trauma and stress. (Moderator this is a physiology based book......). That book changed my life, in that it taught me to focus on the things that keep me well.

Each of us has their own way of doing this and finding your way is key. It appears that looking after you will reduce the damage and perhaps even reverse past damage.

Now at the turn of the year is a great time for health goals. I strongly recommend them. If you read my threads you will find my goals and inspirations. Apart from the last 10lbs I have achieved every one.

I am proud to say I am healthier than ever having recovered from pneumonia, frozen shoulders, bowel disorder and oh those teeth accesses, mouth ulcers, hair loss. I had chest pains and joint inflammation.

All gone.

If an old cluck like V can do it, so can a whipper snapper like Nicole. ANd it's hard work to do and truly worth it. The gentle supportive RD really encouraged me along that road.

It's time dear Nicole to put you and your health as no 1 priority, not sure exactly what that means to you, sleep, juicing, exercise, self care, grooming, new clothes hair etc. IC, L advice, retrear

The impressive green grass turned her look around.

The ones that last here are those that use this amazing board as the opportunity for support for self change. This journey is about you and that includes goals for your health and extreme care.

So challenge

What are your goals for you?

What can you do to get back on track with your health?

Do you have bad habits that are wearing you down?


V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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V has given some amazing advise ^^ listen, take it in. This is a tough lengthy process, but the heart and soul of it needs to be you. I know, as a mom to a young kid- you just want to protect and put them first, which is great. BUT, you also need to take care of you in order to be good for your daughter.

What was it that initially attracted your H to you? What kind of a girl were you then? Did you have any particular hobbies or interests that made you feel good? Tap into those thoughts, not for the sake of trying to turn his head, but your own sanity. It might seem a little superficial, but i was always well kept, groomed, polished and well dressed. I didn’t totally let that slide, but now I’m enjoying the freedom of choosing clothes and buying purchases i would have felt guilty doing in my M. A few new pieces to boost my confidence and make me feel good are money well spent in my opinion.

WRT taking your daughter out, and seeing all the happy couples- i know your pain. I’m sure we all do. But it’s that time of year everyone looks all dreamy, i think they also seem magnified when we are going through this process. This will pass, I’m not personally at that stage it doesn’t bother me at all, but the pain is by far less. Enjoy the moment, you have been blessed with a child, there’s some really lonely people out there that are completely alone. You’ve got a beautiful little girl looking up to her mama, and she will be proud of you.

The dating and feeling like you’ll be alone forever is also hard. But try not to worry about something you cannot control. You never know what lies in your future, maybe it will be one were you h pulls his head out of his a$$ and reconnects, or maybe someone else will come along and cherish you and then the whole past will make sense to you.

Don’t get me wrong, i know this is easier said than done. Every thought in your head i have already thought. But take things in baby steps and work on some short term goals that you can manage. And work on you, put the time into yourself, and believe you are worth it. You’re not ready for the scrap heap my darling, you have a lot to offer any man. But you have to believe that yourself and know that you are worth so much more than he is currently valuing you at. Next time he’s over, turn up the confidence and see how he reacts. It may be fake it until you make it, but even faking some confidence helps you feel that you’re the one in the driving seat.


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T 5
Baby born 4/14
BD: 1/15
EA: 2/15
PA: 4/15
reconciling: 4/15
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I wish I could give you a hug Nicole!
The times I've wandered through places, tears running down my face. It's awful feeling alone in a crowd. You're being so strong, you've probably been so strong for so long you don't recognise it in yourself. But look at what you've achieved! Raising your little girl almost alone, taking on work and living the nightmare that is your husbands selfishness for so many years. You deserve more than a marriage of convenience. And there is someone out there that will have the same beliefs you do. There will be ways of meeting a man of similar beliefs, whether that is through a certain church or a dating site just for situations like these. There are dating sites for everything these days!

I have the same worries as you though. I so don't want to be alone, I'd love a new relationship if my H cannot or will not make the changes needed to pull our marriage out of the dumpster. I acknowledge that I also need to make changes too...I've pushed H away due to my hurt and lonely feelings.
But I simply can't imagine being with anyone else, or anyone else wanting to be with me. And that is a mindset that will need to change and I'm confident that it will change in the future if I need to make that adjustment. And I think it will for you too Nicole. Once the hurt feelings and intense pain begin to subside, you will begin to open up to new experiences and dating and finding love again will be one of them.

I wish you a peaceful run up to 2018 and I wholeheartedly hope 2018 will bring you better health and much joy with your daughter and within yourself. You deserve it.


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Hi All,

Thanks for your responses! I hope to respond to each of them tonight. In the meantime, I was reading FastCars's thread. I lost the DB book and mistakenly ordered the old version and so I'm not totally up-to-date on everything the new DB book says to do. Someone posted a reminder about removing all pressure and talk of the relationship. This is one area where I've failed. Even after my husband returned two years ago I would approach him every few months asking about our relationship and when we'd work on it. Now after he left again I told him I'm planning to move this spring and have asked for his financial support with moving costs and getting resettled. That creates pressure, right? Now I'm second guessing whether I should have just tried to struggle silently here where I am for a few more months, not talking about any plans, and getting a life to the extent possible in place where I don't plan to stay. I still wish to believe that I've done everything possible to fix my marriage before giving up and don't want to look back in ten years and realize that I never gave my husband the break he needed to think. On the other hand, since this has been going for years, how much longer does he deserve a 'break?" It's so confusing!

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Hi Nicole,

I hear you on the confusing...BUT...there comes a time when you have to put yourself first and foremost top priority.

By asking for aid in moving, I don't believe this is the sort of pressure DB mentions. You are showing that you're moving on with your life and doing it with everyone's best interests at heart. You could say you're taking the pressure OFF H because you'll no longer be a constant reminder of how selfish he's become!

You're not pressuring your H to follow you, give up his career or bang on about your relationship...you are trying to get a job where theres more chance of better pay and reward for you and your daughter. Be strong, don't waver on this if it's truly what you want and believe to be the best course of action for your life to flourish.

It's a scary process, leaving behind what we've grown used to, but I feel you're strong enough...You deserve a life you want to live.


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Originally Posted By: NicoleR
That creates pressure, right? Now I'm second guessing whether I should have just tried to struggle silently here where I am for a few more months, not talking about any plans, and getting a life to the extent possible in place where I don't plan to stay.


The way I see it, you're second guessing yourself over nothing. He's literally had years to work on the marriage. A few more months wouldn't have made a difference. And if anything, I think it takes the pressure off him. Also, you leaving might just be the catalyst he needs to see what he's losing.


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I'm going to agree with Caz here. You are removing all pressure on your H and allowing him to see you move on. If anything it will provide some food for thought to your H. He will realize you are taking control of your life and doing whatever necessary to thrive.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Thanks Caz, Jim, and Sara for today's responses. Let me address the previous ones -

Jim, I appreciate your blend of practical advice and sympathy. The point about confidence is a good reminder. Honestly I don't have confidence about much at the moment. Everything that gave me confidence previously is gone now. Sometimes I'll remember something from 10 or 15 years ago, like climbing 18,000 foot mountains in the Himalayas or getting compliments from high level US government officials about my work and I'm totally shocked that was me. Sometimes I'll read something I wrote 10 years ago and can't believe I wrote that. Sometimes I'll remember the truly happy times in my life previously and feel numb. It will take a lot of time and effort to believe that life isn't over and to feel better. I keep trying to fake happiness for my daughter each day and put all of my energy into her upbringing. It's hard because she's much, much stronger than I am and it's hard to diffuse a toddler tantrum or re-direct an angry toddler but she's also so sweet and loving. I keep worrying what will happen to her if anything happens to me. Jim, it's like I hear what you're saying and believe it but just have trouble feeling it.

As far as a conservative or Muslim man - that's the thing. A conservative Muslim man wouldn't work because such man would want a woman who covers her hair and follows the rules of the religion. I don't mind following the rules within reason but I'm too progressive and moderate for a conservative Muslim. A conservative Christian man is likely to be a little too gung-ho and close minded so wouldn't work either. A moderate Muslim or Christian would work for me, but then I think I'm too conservative for them because I don't want a physical relationship before marriage. The list kind of goes on because I guess that's what happens when we get older and realize what works and doesn't work for us. There's no man in the whole world that I know other than my husband who I want to be with in the future. If there was someone else I'd probably feel much better about everything. I'd never have an affair but if I was aware of someone available who *might* be an option someday I'd probably have a lot more hope. There's no one though....

Vanilla, that's so great to think about reversing past damage. It's amazing you did all that! Way to go! I'd love to fix what's wrong with me. I'm working on the physical part but not enough on the psychological part. I'm still not feeling physically better from my current ailment after completing the treatment so it's hard to have much hope that I'll ever get better. On the other hand I did have a few past illnesses that appeared to be chronic that did resolve so I guess I should be less guarded. I did see a dentist this week about tooth whitening and treatment for a misaligned tooth and I consulted with a plastic surgeon about a minor procedure that might help an issue on my face. I've already been on a strict diet regimen for years - vegetarian, no sugar, no salt, organic, mainly fresh fruit and vegetables. Now in addition I'm on a no fat, no dairy, no gluten diet. There's almost nothing left to eat so I look like a walking skeleton. I do use high quality skin products and wear good quality clothing but I guess the part where I'm lacking the most is the energy to pull everything together at once - hair, makeup, clothing, diet, exercise, and psychological state. It's like I can do one or two of those things in any given day but not all. Right now diet requires 90% effort because there's so little I can eat so every calorie has to count. My hope is that when my daughter starts elementary (primary) school in 1.5 years I'll have a little more freedom and can achieve more in any given day. Right now I'm the sole caretaker of a toddler girl, otherwise there's a lot more I'd be doing. I'll keep working on everything. As noted above if I could just see the world more positively again and not feel so weighed down with fears and limitations I think it'd help heal the physical ailments. The functional medicine doctor I saw said to try to forget that I'm sick. Maybe I should just care less. Another doctor suggested SSRI's (depression medication) and I even picked up the prescription but when I looked at the warnings and list of side effects I didn't dare take them. They sounded terrifying (suicidal thoughts, racing heart, hallucinations, etc..). Why would I want to make things worse? My counselor and psychologist both agree with my decision to move back to the city where I can focus on my career so I guess that's the next big step. Self-care might be easier when I have more money and more resources to go to the best hair dresser and buy better shoes and perhaps feel some sense of dignity or respect for myself again.

Cherry, when I met my husband I had a high profile career and had body guards escorting me around wherever I went. My husband said I was a 'distant star' to him. He was a local in the country where I was working. To him I was someone important and wealthy and pursuing my passion and evidently happy to be doing what I was doing. To be honest what I'm doing now, mostly staying at home raising my daughter, isn't my passion. I love her and I'm so honored to have her and thankful for her but diapers and mopping and laundry and organizing toys and cleaning up craft supplies and going through the same exact mindless repetitive routine every single day to the point of dropping dead at the end-of-the-day isn't my thing. I'm totally drained. I used to work 12 - 18 hour days and would fall asleep still thinking about my work and would wake up the next morning and do it again. I loved it and I was a workaholic. My husband somehow admired me. Now I'm totally boring to my husband and since I already feel bored I feel I'm boring to myself. I also saw pictures online of the women my husband dated over the past few years and of course they're much younger and childless and have all the time in the world to apply make up and style their hair. My husband goes for the model type, which I'm not, and after battling my daughter all day, cooking, and cleaning I look in the mirror and have trouble imagining how I could ever compete with any of those women. I can't. But I'll try to fake confidence. I also need to be more realistic with my expectations and try to view success differently now than I did previously. Raising a small human alone without help is much harder than my career ever was. It's also more rewarding in the long-term so I try to remember that I interrupted my career for something that is more important than a project, title, or salary. Family is more important and there is a lot to learn from the sacrifice that I knew nothing about previously. I'm sure you know what I mean.

Caz, it sounds like we understand each other well. Your thoughts are almost exactly mine. I'd love to find someone better than my husband someday. Someone who won't just lose interest after the first few years and walk away. I also know that no one is perfect and any new man will have his own flaws so sometimes I think taking my husband back with his known flaws would be better. Then I look at all my happily married friends and family members and know I should raise my expectations. There are minor flaws and major flaws and my husband has major ones. It would be easier if I could picture a few other guys who I'd like to date. There just are none. I hope though you, Caz, do meet someone sooner than later. You sound lovely and I think your whole world would change with a man who loves you and treats you well. Same with me. I will try to survive alone but I've never aspired to be alone. I don't believe humans are designed to live alone. We're designed to live in families and communities with many close connections with others. The most important of all should be our spouse. It doesn't feel fair to those of us who want a partner but are abandoned by the ones we chose.

All, it's late now but ASAP I'll respond to your messages about doing the right thing by moving. It's a big relief to hear that I didn't make a major mistake, although I did include potential divorce fees in the new financial spreadsheet I sent my husband to help him understand what he needs to save / budget for.

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Nicole, your confidence will return. It may take awhile, but it will. Right now you have the most important job in the world, and you're doing it very well. Unfortunately, there's just no one to tell you that. Also, some GAL activities will bring you confidence and a sense of accomplishment. It will just take a little time. Allow yourself that time.

My W had chronic health issues, too. She was pretty much bedridden for most of 8 years. Health issues will take a toll on a marriage, but mostly it will take a toll on your psyche. And having a toddler makes it that much harder. All I can say is that over time, as your health improves, so will your outlook.

I know you were scared by the side effects of some of the prescribed drugs, but remember, they are "possible" side effects. During clinical trials, some number of people had these side effects. It could be as few as 2 per thousand. Thats miniscule, but in today's litigious world, pharma companies have to put it on the bottle. YOUR odds of having this side effect are miniscule. And at worst, you can just stop taking the drug. It might make for a few uncomfortable days, but it might improve the rest of your life.

Stop worrying if men will find you attractive. You are attractive, and will be more so when you have more confidence, and lose your H. You keep mentioning reasons why it won't work with this type of man or the other type. You are making excuses for failures that haven't happened yet. OK, so a conservative Muslim man probably won't happen. But stop being so closed minded about everyone else. There are plenty of moderates and conservatives, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, pagan, animist, whatever, who will treat you with respect and love you. You might have to kiss more frogs than some of us to find them, but so what?


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Hi Nicole,

I hear in you what resonates in me...better the devil we know! I see the flaws and the things that make me love H. They are a sum of all their parts. I see the vulnerability that H doesn't even know he has. And this is what keeps me hooked.

And oh boy it's a tough one to break. I don't want to date anyone, the thought of it fills me with all kinds of ick...and yet I know there is someone out there who is better suited, more compatible and will be more devoted to me and want me to be devoted to him. I just wish I could picture myself with him. One day!

And thank you! You sound lovely too! I wish we could start a club and all meet up and rejoice in our friendship.

Nicole, the great thing about you, you were able to shift your priorities, and D was the most important thing in your life, then came your health...if your H couldn't or wouldn't put his needs...just for a while...on the back burner, then he is not deserving of your head space. Yes, we do have to make our partners feel needed, but my guess is your H has an almighty chip on his shoulder where he needs to be up front and centre of all the attention.
You put an amazing career on hold to begin a family, H should be proud, not bent out of shape because you didn't fit into his 'get his juices flowing' dreams.

But if you truly want to rekindle your career, then go for it...looking over your shoulder with 'hey, oh did you want something H?' He just may think...Whaaat is going on???

He seems to need a whole lot of growing up to do. And if you truly love him I believe he needs a wake up call. (I say if you truly love him because I'm thinking is he better the devil you know) BUT I'm no expert and following my own advice is scary as all h@@@

Have a super Christmas with your little girl. It's such a wonderful time, and I will be here if you feel like venting come Christmas Day xx


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I get what you mean, and your career you can pick back up at some point along the way. Yes, it might be different, and the days may be shorter and less travel- but you can make it work around your family. My main career is a commercial lawyer for a high profile company. I went from full time with travel, to part time and significantly less travel- though i now pick up more over conference calls. Life does become different as a mom, especially when you’re used to being a career woman, but believe me- it can come back.

Never mind (easier said than done) about who he chooses to peruse. You’re a woman, not a girl. I’ve been surprised how many guys actually say they find me all the more sexier that I’m a mother. And that’s the primal part, it triggers that part in the brain that says you’re fertile and able to carry a baby. But what i want is you to start to see that yourself. You have been through a lot with him, and that shows in your lack of confidence. But you are smart, and beautiful- don’t let him and his airheads get to you. You have to start believing your worth, even the most tiny thing will help you feel better. Even a new piece of clothing, getting a girlfriend to come out with you and entertain d while you get your eyebrows done, paint your nails while d does some colouring. Anything that makes you feel a bit more like you.

With regards to finding someone, like jim says, don’t worry about something that hasn’t happened yet. Take it day by day and see what happens. There is always someone out there, it’s likely wether directly or indirectly, your h has made you believe there is no one out there for you. There is, absolutely. I’m the opposite of you, I’m a Muslim but not conservative in the way i don’t cover my head and i wear western clothes. I may pray 5 times a day, and follow all the rules. But some men won’t see past that. But then that’s their loss. Don’t rule anything out.


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EA: 2/15
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Hi all,

I'll send a response to the last two rounds of responses tomorrow night or Wednesday. Thank you so much for your input. I really just want to print everything and keep reading it. It seems like I already said most of what there is to say and I need to take time internalize your feedback and try to follow it.

I'm not really looking for responses today because it's nothing really new and I don't want to make anyone re-write what they've already said, but yesterday and today have just been so bad. They're two of the worst days of my life. I'm still not feeling well and had a clue yesterday that I might have a second illness that was overlooked by the first. There's a chance I'll need gallbladder surgery or other types of treatment. There's no chance to go to the doctor the next few days due to the holidays and I'm traveling on Tuesday but last night I was so worried, so scared, and felt so desperate at the thought of needing surgery that I called my husband to ask his opinion. I know it's a mistake but I have health anxiety and couldn't control my fear. I stuck to the point with my husband (he's a doctor) but he had no sympathy. He started shouting at me that he has enough sh*t in his life to deal with and I should go find my own doctor and he can't help me. Then he hung up. It was so hurtful I just sat there in shock for a while. Then I couldn't sleep and couldn't stop crying all day today. My husband became so mean and heartless.

I can't figure out what I did wrong for my husband to speak with such hate and disgust. I know I'm weak at the moment. I'm not attractive with these health problems. I'm also guilty of annoying him by being too adherent to rules, safety, and health issues. The more he see's he hurts me, the more angry he gets. It seems he wants me to disappear forever. He knows now that I'm busy every day and planning to move but there's no remorse even now that the pressure is being lifted. I guess the financial pressure is bothering him but still, I leave him alone nowadays except for essential financial issues and those related to our daughter.

Sometimes I don't know how to stop crying. I've never felt this bad before. Even after talking to a friend today for an hour and some people at church I don't feel better. I have to do more medical tests and it's hard to sit alone dealing with the unknown. I feel so sorry for my daughter because she saw me crying all day and there's nothing she can do and I couldn't stop. I just wish Christmas would be over. I'm spending it alone with my daughter and that makes everything worse.

I wish so much to fast forward to finding a new man and starting over. I don't feel like spending years or decades single and alone even though I know I have to first improve my life and be healthier and look physically better. But this loneliness and being sick alone with a dependent toddler is like a curse.

Anyway, I hope you all have special family members with whom to spend Christmas and I hope we can all remember each other's struggles because at least for me, when I look around, the whole world appears to be happy married couples living perfect lives. It's nice to know there are a few others out there who know the feeling of being left behind by their spouse and having to start over.

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Dear Nicole, I wish I could come and give you a hug.

You don't deserve to feel so low. I'm hoping your low moment has passed for now and you can enjoy your daughters company...I know its not the same as being all together but really you don't want your H around you right now.

What he did, when you called was harsh and pathetic. He felt pressured and probably backed into a corner. Should he have?...No not at all, he's your husband, you had a connection once, he should want to help you (I didn't realise he was a doctor) But its not the same any more. He doesn't want to feel guilty, he doesn't want to feel anything or hear anything about you right now. Don't contact him again. No matter how matter of fact you word it, he sees it as pressure, manipulation even. He is heartless right now, heartless to you. Keep that in your heart the next time you feel like contacting him. I feel your pain.

I know it's monumentally hard. I don't get it either, this stone faced attitude. It's painful and scary. Especially when you have your added health issues...you must feel so alone and anxious. But try to relax. Being anxious Isn't going to change the outcome of whether you need surgery or not but it will make you feel rotten and ruin your time with daughter.

Practice some breathing exercises. Think calmly, and rationally. It won't be long and you'll have the medical answers you need.

Don't feel bad about spending time crying, it's healing too...just don't live there in that misery. Could you find out about antidepressants? A little aid may be needed. Please think about it.

I too wish you could find a wonderful man that knows your worth and value...if thats how you truly feel, it will happen in time. But you're not emotionally ready yet, but you will be and it will be a great moment for you to realise...yes, I deserve more than this. I do deserve to be valued, I do deserve to be loved and cherished and it will happen.

Get yourself feeling stronger, and have that wonderful thought to look forward to. One day I'm going to be free, independent, strong and happy...and I'll have complete and unconditional love of my daughter. And eventually a new relationship to top it off.

Hugs


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Hi Caz,

Thanks for all of your kind words. I'll try to keep repeating them to myself. I'm trying to be as normal as possible today. I won't contact my husband again. I learned my lesson. I'll look into antidepressants again as soon as I see a doctor about the actual medical problems. If I don't need surgery and if there's not a second diagnosis then I'll probably be ok. If it's something bad though then I'll need antidepressants and a lot of help which I don't have so I'll have to beg friends to fly here from other places.

I hope you're doing ok today. There in the UK it's already afternoon so at least you made it almost through Christmas day! When is your actual anniversary day? I guess I should go to your thread to write more about you! I'll try to be back later to write more.

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Hi Nicole, I'm sorry you have been finding things so tough. The holidays aren't easy and I can remember being very glad to see January in that first year after BD.

That was a harsh response from your H and I'm sorry you had to experience that when you were seeking advice and support. It doesn't sound as though he has that to offer just now. Sometimes people post here about 'broken empathy chips' and what you posted reminded me of that phrase.

It would be best (I think) if you only see him as a support option when it comes to parenting matters. In these you will remain co-joined. But in all other aspects, I would seek support from elsewhere and not bring him into your confidence. Can you start to see him as a rather distant colleague? Someone who you are not that keen on, but are polite enough to?

Also, if you are experiencing such high anxiety, you may want to think about seeking some more support for yourself too. I saw a therapist for a while after BD and it did help. I also went to a divorce care group (at a point when I very much wanted to save my M) and that helped a lot too. Get yourself what you need to get through this intact - survive, cope, thrive..

I hope you'll be feeling much, much better soon Sweetie xx


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Sweet Nicole, i hope you managed to get through today. It isn’t easy, especially all you’ve got on and so close to BD time. I second antidepressants, i was reluctant to, and refused to for a long time. I must admit once it began to work it helped me to think a bit clearer. You have a lot on and no support, so anything that might help you is worth a shot.

Crying does help. It gets it out of your system, accept it and let it all out. He was beyond rude and heartless to you, but that’s something you’ve now learnt. So it’s time to prove him wrong, a metaphorical (or literal) middle finger up to him- and you are going to get through this. And you will. Stronger and sassier!

We are all here for you, and rooting for you. Big love my darling, you’ve got this


Me 26 H 25
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T 5
Baby born 4/14
BD: 1/15
EA: 2/15
PA: 4/15
reconciling: 4/15
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Hi Nicole,

I've been thinking about you today. I hope you're feeling a bit stronger and more hopeful today.

I was wondering...can you afford a DB coach at all? I feel you may get a lot of perspective from talking to someone who can talk you through the process...I wouldn't want to give you any opinions that may hinder your DB attempts.

Take care, and I hope your journey was a good one today?


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Originally Posted By: Caz49
Dear Nicole, I wish I could come and give you a hug.

You don't deserve to feel so low. I'm hoping your low moment has passed for now and you can enjoy your daughters company...I know its not the same as being all together but really you don't want your H around you right now.

What he did, when you called was harsh and pathetic. He felt pressured and probably backed into a corner. Should he have?...No not at all, he's your husband, you had a connection once, he should want to help you (I didn't realise he was a doctor) But its not the same any more. He doesn't want to feel guilty, he doesn't want to feel anything or hear anything about you right now. Don't contact him again. No matter how matter of fact you word it, he sees it as pressure, manipulation even. He is heartless right now, heartless to you. Keep that in your heart the next time you feel like contacting him. I feel your pain.

I know it's monumentally hard. I don't get it either, this stone faced attitude. It's painful and scary. Especially when you have your added health issues...you must feel so alone and anxious. But try to relax. Being anxious Isn't going to change the outcome of whether you need surgery or not but it will make you feel rotten and ruin your time with daughter.

Practice some breathing exercises. Think calmly, and rationally. It won't be long and you'll have the medical answers you need.

Don't feel bad about spending time crying, it's healing too...just don't live there in that misery. Could you find out about antidepressants? A little aid may be needed. Please think about it.

I too wish you could find a wonderful man that knows your worth and value...if thats how you truly feel, it will happen in time. But you're not emotionally ready yet, but you will be and it will be a great moment for you to realise...yes, I deserve more than this. I do deserve to be valued, I do deserve to be loved and cherished and it will happen.

Get yourself feeling stronger, and have that wonderful thought to look forward to. One day I'm going to be free, independent, strong and happy...and I'll have complete and unconditional love of my daughter. And eventually a new relationship to top it off.

Hugs


^^^^ this.

Nicole, I wish I could give you a hug and listen as you pour out your problems.


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Hi Everyone, Happy New Year! I've been wanting to respond to all of your previous posts in detail but I keep getting further behind. My daughter has been home on preschool holiday break and my health is still not good.

I want to quickly write a few updates though. Earlier in the week my friend and former neighbor who knows what's happening asked me to meet her husband to get his input. He's a successful guy business-wise and knows my husband as well. He said my husband alluded to the fact that I was too passive, in a bad way, in past conversations. He said my husband is taking advantage of me in our current situation and said I need to stand up for myself. He said I can't let this happen - allowing my husband to live in a big new house alone while my daughter and I live in a small old apartment. He said we're an upper middle class family and I've now been displaced to a lower socioeconomic class and I can't sit quietly and let that happen. He said I need to go check on the new house and tell my husband I can't live in the apartment anymore. I ended up asking my husband if I could stop by and see what's happening with the house a few nights ago and my husband said no. My husband said if I need anything that I have in storage there he'd bring it to me. I asked him to consider switching places for the benefit of our daughter until further notice (I'm waiting to move until I know what's happening with my health) - he living in the apartment and us in the house. I didn't say anything about fixing our relationship, just switching places. My husband got mad and said no, it's his house, he worked hard for it and he's going to live there.

I don't know. Perhaps it was wrong to follow my neighbor's advice but at the same time, what my neighbor said is true. My husband has taken advantage of my passiveness. I've mainly followed this website (DB) and have tried to cut off contact with my husband but the arrangement we're in IS unfair. My husband goes on major spending sprees for himself and his house but he hasn't been paying off my credit card these past few months. When I tell him there's still a balance from the previous month he tells me to stop spending so much even though I'm really not. I developed a budget that he never bothered to look at. We're living on the bare minimum and even with that my husband see's us a burden and annoyance.

The root problem of course is that I'm not working and need to get a new job ASAP, but I'm waiting now to see if I need surgery these next few weeks so I feel like I can't do anything yet. Still, given that I burned through my savings and may not get a position with the same level of seniority as before, the best I can offer my daughter on my own is probably what we have now - an apartment with a modest lifestyle. It seems unfair to her.

Anyway, at this point I'm afraid it doesn't even matter if I contacted or upset my husband because clearly he's moved on and doesn't have plans to fix the marriage. The fact that he wants to live like a king in his own house, coupled with the fact that he doesn't want to see his daughter, makes it obvious to me that there's very little I can do to save the marriage.

I told some old friends from my husband's country what happened and they think he used me for immigration purposes.

The worst thing is that I still miss my husband. He's become an awful, selfish person but I still remember the years when we were inseparable. There are other things that make me happy but the happiest I've been in my life were those few years with my husband when the marriage was good.

Sometimes I wonder if my husband will ever regret what he did, or if he's really such a bad person. I also blame myself for being too kind. I see that I need to change. I want to be a good role model for my daughter. I feel so, so sorry for her to have a father who doesn't want to play a big role in her life. It's so hard to mitigate the damage it will do to her in the future.

One question I have is if I file for divorce, should I offer any final statement to my husband before doing so? Like "this was the last resort but now I have to protect myself and our daughter?" Or "I never wanted to get divorced but I see that you've moved on so now I need to do so as well?" Anything to state my intentions? Or just move forward with it and let him be surprised?

My husband always says something to the extent of "I don't want to get divorced. I want to have time to think." That's what he's been saying for years so I assume that's what he's thinking now. But now I fear we're at his mercy financially and without some legal arrangement it's hard to know what's fair and what support he should offer.

It's still so hard to think about this. I will probably wait a few weeks to do anything because I know filing for divorce will make my health worse and I just need to get a better diagnosis first. I think I'm also clinically depressed. Maybe that's why I read and hear what you're all saying but don't feel it and can't feel better. I'll start SSRI's for a time if my health is bad and I'm getting divorced because those two things at once feel unbearable.

Thanks again for listening! I really wonder what the future holds for us all.

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You need to see an attorney ASAP. There may be a way, depending on the laws of your state, to get a maintenance order without filing for divorce. Going to work now may not be a good idea in terms of support and it sounds like your health might justify holding off. Please talk to a lawyer ASAP. My H is a complete narcissist ahole but he pays us a significant amount of support and we live in the nice house while he lives in a shack. Your situation is deplorable.



Oh, and if your neighbor is right, him seeing you stand up for yourself might actually improve the way he views you.

Last edited by Cadet; 01/01/18 08:46 AM. Reason: combine posts
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Hi Nicole,

I think your neighbour is spot on. He's walking all over you because he knows how passive (I like to think too nice) you are. He knows he can do whatever he wants and there'll be no consequences. Because he knows you love him. Well you can still love him and stand up for yourself. It could be the 180 that makes him sit up...or not! But either way it may make you feel a lot better about yourself and your situation.

See a lawyer...for advice if nothing else. He owes his daughter support and you too. Very important!

Definitely look into antidepressants. I wish you well in your quest to find whats medically wrong with you...and your quest to find the new you! Keep your chin up Nicole, and come here for a chat whenever, I'm here for you xx


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Go see an attorney now. You don't have to file yet but you need to find out your financial options and protect yourself. Knowledge is power. Go find out how much money you would get in an order for temporary support and how it compares to what he's giving you now.

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Nicole, just like everyone else said, you need to talk to a lawyer, if only to make sure he pays to support you and your daughter. It stinks, but he hasn't really left you with any other choice, has he? Stop being so nice. That isn't going to help you in any way.


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Yes I agree. I don't think 'nice' really get results. I prefer 'means business.' If he wants the marriage to end, that means sensible division of assets and proper provision for your child. If this isn't in place, it needs to be and I would make a L appt without delay. I was really reluctant to do this and was 'pushed' by the forum, so I reluctantly did. I must say that I never regretted that step, even though XH hadn't anticipated we would use L's and was dismayed.

In my sitch, XH threw out a number of 'wildly in his favour' settlement options. Actually, my settlement (using the normal formula in our circumstance) was approximately double what he originally proposed. Don't expect the WAS to be fair!!

Also, do consider any medical support options that will help you cope during this challenging time Sweetie.

Xx

Last edited by Cadet; 01/01/18 08:45 AM. Reason: start a new thread

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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thanks so much everyone. I see in the message above "start a new thread" so let me figure out how to do that and I'll respond more ASAP.



http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2773599#Post2773599

Last edited by Cadet; 01/04/18 03:17 AM. Reason: Link
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