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hahahhaha - you and your stats Mark! It kills me. I am a qualitative kinda guy and so I do have to thumb up my nose to y'all statisticians a bit. Let me do an interview with your W and then analyze it and see how it stacks up to your stats smile

Joking aside - well, we do know that plenty of WW's go from one OM to the next rather than try recon with the LBS. Let's hope your WW falls in that percentage that doesn't do that.


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Sandi you are a perfect example of what I am trying to get across here but am obviously not eloquent enough to portray it through words


shocked What?! Did you even read my post on 10/3? I felt I was going out on a limb, and it was basically b/c I thought you were being hit over the head too much about leaving the MH. I was trying to support you.

I will assume you are referring to my post yesterday. Let me tell you something about my writing. Whenever you see smiley faces, that means I am not trying to sound as if I'm swinging 2x4's. However, I did want to respond to your statement about the vets, which was:

Quote:
Most vets here have lived it and are now in a place where we are not, I just feel there is too much enthuses on getting to the point of D instead of the point of RC and TO ME that’s just wrong.


Mark, I am here trying to support you, not tear you down. Frankly, I have not posted much at all on your threads b/c I thought, "He's got this". I felt you were getting a lot of flack for moving out and it was time for everyone to drop it and try to offer something more constructive. I mean, when a man says over & over that he is not going to take a particular piece of advice.....it's time for people to let it drop, IMHO.

I sense the frustration in you. Maybe b/c I was so frustrated, myself, when I first arrived on the board. I was trying to be heard and explain my feelings.....and I was the odd ball facing all these LBS's. smile So, I get it.

As for communication..........wow, let me tell ya......when I see in writing some person's misinterpretation of something I've said, I think I ought to just sit down and shut up. frown I am not a wordsmith by a long shot. I use a lot of old fashion idioms that probably make no sense to younger people. I end sentences with prepositions, and the rest of the sentence structure is not that great, either. My English teacher would flunk me (if she could read my posts) for not having a subject and verb for every sentence. And my biggest, most favorite of no-no's? Run on sentences. I'm talking an entire paragraph of one long running sentence. grin I'm making fun of myself to show readers we are not required to write eloquently on the forum. I don't think you were talking about grammar, but communication.......which is key for all of us.

Quote:
I’m sorry but I have lots of questions for you but understand if you would like to refrain from answering. No problem, fire away.

1. Am I right in thinking you RC your MR? Yes

2. Can I ask how difficult it was for you to go back to your LBH and ask him for another chance? The hardest part for me was swallowing my false pride. Once I accepted full responsibility for my actions, then I was able to feel humility and could go to him with the right heart.

3. Did your LBH give you the SLIGHTEST indication that RC could be achieved? That's a little more difficult to explain in a few words. We were never separated. When he found out about the A, he told me in no uncertain terms he would not tolerate it. Then, he eventually backed off and went dark (as much as you can while living in a small house). I did not know what he might do. I thought I had the upper hand, until I was busted by my grown D. In her talk to me, she said enough that made me think I had killed the love H had for me (essentially losing him). Putting that together with losing the respect of my children and close family......my fantasy came tumbling down pretty quickly.

4. Would you have done it sooner if he had left a “crack” open for RC? No, I would have done it much sooner if he had walked out on me and showed me he was finished with my treatment and he deserved much better.

Quote:
Sandi you’ve helped me a great deal with my own situation, without you I would never have known about the MNG syndrome and the actual mindset of a WW so I do appreciate your input truly.


I appreciate that very much, b/c I am here to pay forward the help I received when I came here.

Quote:

My biggest problem and the reason I get all the 2x4’s is that I’m very logical I work with statistics it’s what I do! If we look deep into our lives statistic are everywhere and help us without actually knowing it. Now with A’s there’s the emotional element to factor in and I appreciate that BUT that’s very biased to each separate situation.


Okay. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I will be the first to say that there is no one cookie cutter for every situation. I can see how your logical thinking could resist the very illogical thinking of a WW.

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Sorry I believe in RC even with WW’s ^


Well now.....I am living proof. That is why I responded to the remark you made.

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believe somewhere down the line there will be the opportunity it’s what I do UNTIL this point I’m berated for. I TOTALLY feel we would see more MR’s RC’ed if we just step back and try and stretch out our timelines, I agree that detachment and NC and GAL’ing has a part to play with us getting to that point and a byproduct of this could be the LBS “moving on” but for ME I intend to continue what I’m doing and see what happens in time.


I don't disagree. And that's why I don't understand why (out of all the other posters on your threads giving you a hard time) you take issue with me. I believe timing is extremely important. I don't think this is as cut & dried as you seem to see it, but maybe I misread you. I believe "opportunity" can present itself much sooner if the LBH does some other things in addition to what you mentioned. It usually depends upon the individual situation. There are certain things that are puzzling about human nature that often defy logic. smile

If you need a break from the board, that's fine. I hope you will come back, but I'll respect your decision either way. (That's about as good as I get in validation.) wink


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks Sandi for responding.

I’m sorry if I’ve offended anybody on these boards especially you it’s not my intention. I apologise.

Sandi what I meant about you being the perfect example was that of a WW who has RC her MR sorry for any confusion. You’re well respected around here and I had hoped to use your example to outline that RC is indeed a viable solution.

What has come from this recent series of posts is the actual amount of experience people have had with RC, AS, 2016sux to name but two AND the percentage that did actually try OR wanted to try RC was/is indeed quite high in their personal experiences! It’s just so unfortunate that there are so many MR that have to go through these horrendous times.

What I will leave everybody with is this:

Please patience is key try and stretch out your situations and don’t be forced into filing too soon. If you can outlast the limerence phases and if you want to have a chance at RC you must manage the time, for me to see my children grow up to be more rounded and complete individuals spurs me on.

D is not an option.

M


DR'ing started March 2017

Don't blow the last bridge up from fantasy island, act "as if".
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I'm sorry for my ignorance and this thread is not the right one to ask it in; sorry for hijacking the thread Mark but based on what you just said: why is it that people in US don't tend to file for the divorce straight away when they move in with OMs or say that a separation is indefinite? If they truly mean it, why not divorce then? If someone moves in with an OM/OW here, it's 100% divorce filed. Basically when a person feels they are done with the M, they file. Separations are REALLY rare in my country and they are only if the couple still sees a possibility in making the M work. That's why I think I'm not far from your position even though my XW filed... although they say divorce is just a paper which doesn't really mean anything when it comes to recon.

Originally Posted By: Parkema
Honestly we’re not that far away from each other in regards to how we manage our situation, I feel that TIME is the most important aspect in R’s. Acting as if I know RC is going to happen (statistically speaking) puts me in a mindset that I FEEL emits the kind of person I wish to show, unpressured, happy, calm, not angry and confident knowing I’m going to get through this either way it goes on and on!

That's good Mark! I think we just have the different mental picture. I fall into obsessing if I keep recon as the "end goal" and easily distract myself from doing what I should. If you have ever played any games, making myself the man I want to be is the primary quest and recon is a random chance generated prize for completing that quest. Sorry for the nerdiness, ha. laugh

Originally Posted By: Parkema

I think you’ll also agree to TOTALLY detach is impossible (those pesky triggers) but I have some success in giving them NO space in my head and again like you feel the LRT principles and others have aided me massively. This is just one thing I take away from these boards there are so many I’m just suggesting not to be blinkered it’s that simple.

Total detach comes with time. But I think it's good to work towards that continuously. There will be triggers but they will lose their effect over time.


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Parkema,

I believe it's all based on how much damage your WS causes. Initially after finding out the A, I was willing to forgive and work on the MR. But my W has shown zero remorse and continues to sneak around. And has even looked of other men due to the fact that OM doesn't live in the state.

So we're expected to wait out tolerance, while W does her wild oats. And we sit here just waiting patiently? At this point, I wouldn't want anything to do with my W relationship wise. Maybe meet up for sex to be honest and that would be far and between. To be honest my MR vows is what is probably keeping around and love for who she was.

Limerance passes and your left with someone you now have zero respect for, other than sharing a child. So the WS would have to do so much to make themselves look worth it. And to be honest, if I am with someone else. Why would I leave a good woman to entertain a former WW?


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Originally Posted By: lcause
...why is it that people in US don't tend to file for the divorce straight away when they move in with OMs or say that a separation is indefinite? If they truly mean it, why not divorce then?


lcause,

In the U.S. we're optimistic beyond reason. For example, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, and the U.S. Postal Service. We don't divorce anything until we've beaten the dead horse beyond recognition.

But that's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted By: doodler
Originally Posted By: lcause
...why is it that people in US don't tend to file for the divorce straight away when they move in with OMs or say that a separation is indefinite? If they truly mean it, why not divorce then?




first, they are not sure and thank God they don't always wait that long before separating or no one would ever reconcile

second, the states vary in how long they require you to be separated before you can file for divorce

but most importantly I think, it's b/c people separate sometimes to get the attention of the spouse (wake them up)

or to try out the single life,

or to escape a homelife they need space from.

I do not see an advantage to quick filing.

In California, 1/3 of the divorces filed are never completed. Chances are a lot of those are couples who reconciled

but there is no legal announcement of such.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Quote:
I’m sorry if I’ve offended anybody on these boards especially you it’s not my intention. I apologise.

Sandi what I meant about you being the perfect example was that of a WW who has RC her MR sorry for any confusion. You’re well respected around here and I had hoped to use your example to outline that RC is indeed a viable solution.


All is well here, and thanks for clarifying for me.
I don't mind answering questions about my situation. However, LBH's here cannot really use my H as a pattern to reconcile with a WW. Let me explain why. He was not the one coming to the board. I was. He was not the one getting the tools. See what I mean?

Had I not been coming to the board, I don't know if we would have made it. I'd like to think I would have eventually done the right thing, but then.....I never would have dreamed I would be involved with an OM, either. Although most everything about DB is for the one who wants to save the M....I was given enough information on how affairs work, and that helped me in deciding to do the right thing.

There have been success stories over the years that are no longer posted. And most people are not going to hang around, once their M has R. But here's the thing, there are some wise divorced people here. Don't discredit their advice, just b/c their WW was a fool. Even DB can't promise to save every M.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Tread - Please don’t get me wrong no two situations are the same and how we handle these situations must also be different do you agree?

I’m at a place in time with my MR that I still see RC as a viable option, she is continuing her A and it is going from strength to strength BUT as everybody mentions here this is no longer about her it’s about ME.

With the information I’ve researched about the subject and the boards own experiences on RC I feel it’s too soon for me to escalate “closure” in my MR BUT if my attitude was to change over time well that's down to ME.

“So we're expected to wait out tolerance, while W does her wild oats. And we sit here just waiting patiently? At this point, I wouldn't want anything to do with my W relationship wise. Maybe meet up for sex to be honest and that would be far and between. To be honest my MR vows is what is probably keeping around and love for who she was.”< Tread I’m not suggesting for one minute ANYBODY take any notice of what I’m subscribing to that's your choice! I’ve come to the understanding that what will be will be and there’s no way I can influence that in a good way BUT a BAD way..? You choose to fight or fold that’s up to you but I do hope you continue to fight.

“Why would I leave a good woman to entertain a former WW?” < Couldn’t agree more I would be the same it’s just that I’m not in that place yet and hope never to be but who knows…

25yearsmlc – “Second, the states vary in how long they require you to be separated before you can file for divorce” < obviously this should interest all on the boards… 25 can I ask why you think some states in the US have decided on a period of separation BEFORE D and could you tell me on average what that period is..?
In the UK we can file for an “easier” D (if separated) after a certain period of time if both parties agree, this all ends quite quickly and civilly.

Sandi – I’m not going to pester you any more about your situation but again everybody’s is different, I’m just happy it turn out for the best for you.

M


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Parkema,

Here the thing that I discovered about DB'ING. It's about saving yourself more than your MR. Fight or fold isn't really a good assessment. Because the variable is that the WS is having a good time messing around, while you sit back and wait for them to eventually see the error of their way or at least see you as the better choice. That is commendable. But this person comes back to you a completely different human being.

There is no way that a woman or man could habe sexual experiences with one OP let alone several and still be that same person that your waiting for. I didn't completely understand why the LBS would turn down the WS who wanted RC. But I can completely see why now. It's more than just folding.

You just realize that this goes against your values. And in some ways you finding that you were plan B. Based on the fact that one reason they may be returning is because things didn't work out with OP.

The philosophy you have makes sense. But don't be surprised when you wake up one day realizing that your W isn't worth fighting for based on her behavior and things she has done. We all have a breaking point. And these WS keep crossing that line. Which eventually they may or may not regret at some point. My philosophy is to look out for myself at this point. If she comes crawling back one day, then we'll deal with the sitch then. But I just don't see a reason to pursue this woman, even if I was encouraged to do so by this board or counselors.


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