Gordie: MLC w and I are working on our d #11

[Gordie]

Thread #11 finds G still living at home with stbxw and kids. A year ago, I got the b d. After the panic phase, I worked with a d b coach with the aim of rebuilding connection with stbx. It worked and stbx postponed d talk and action. Alas, stbx says she just can’t do it any more, can’t act married. I gave up trying to build connection and am now in some LRT. We talk like acquaintances and work out co parent logistics. We are working out the details of our settlement. I’ll write more later and respond to the prior messages.

[Gordie]

Prior:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2758694#Post2758694

[Gordie]

Butterfly,

Thank you for sharing more of your story. Running on fumes? Yeah, that’s me right now. And no, I can’t live like that for long.

I too am struggling with those who am I apart from my stbx questions. What do I like? What do I believe? Who am I?

I’m embarrassed that I don’t have quicker answers but I guess this is going to take some time. Singing in front of others? Wow. That is awesome.

What is a shamanic journeying practice?

Fierce compassion. Wow, hadn’t heard those two words together. Trying to get this settlement done as fairly and civilly as possible. I really do hope she is reasonable and that is possible.

[roist]

It is good you have people here who have gone through what you are going through. Their views and advice are a great benefit to you. Tweak that advice so it best suits you.

I would advise you to focus on what you need to achieve or want in the settlement. Regardless of how W reacts/acts. Don't get sucked into arguments. Be a rock unperturbed by the turbulent river.

Best wishes

[SBJ]

Gord, glad to see you opened another thread. We are on a similar timeline from BD, but mine seemed to be done much quicker. I'm 11 months post move out date. It has been a long 11 months, but the thing that we learn in this is that it won't kill us and that we are very capable of making things work.

There are so many things that help get us thru this, but the number one for me were two F's...Faith and Friends. Neither will let you down, and if you friends share your faith it makes it that much better.

I'm not saying that I don't have rough patches...Hell I teared up at the end "The Urban Cowboy" last night when they rode off together. Reasons...one of her favorite movies, one of her favorite stars, one of my favorite soundtracks, plus Jack Daniels makes me emotional. That being said, I woke up this morning with my nose to the grind stone and in prayer. I lift you and your family up in prayer every day. Please know that you are not alone in this.

Right now it is a business transaction...treat it as such. You would never want to make a bad deal with your business and you sure don't want to with this. Stay strong my friend.

[leahsue]

Gordie,
I can't remember if I've posted to you in the past, but I've followed your thread and just wanted to stop by and offer a word of encouragement. I can read the pain in your posts, but I think you're doing some of the hardest work right now, and digging deep inside yourself for answers to questions that you probably wouldn't have even asked yourself before this chapter. Who are you apart from her? I think we all lose sight of that about ourselves over a long marriage.

You will get to the other side of this. We all will. One day at a time.

[Gordie]

It is good you have people here who have gone through what you are going through. Their views and advice are a great benefit to you. Tweak that advice so it best suits you.

I would advise you to focus on what you need to achieve or want in the settlement. Regardless of how W reacts/acts. Don't get sucked into arguments. Be a rock unperturbed by the turbulent river.

Best wishes

R,

Thanks. A year ago I think I would have just given w anything she wanted. I am in a better place now and see how unreasonable some of her requests are. She thinks she is going to win. I think everyone loses. W will throw a fit when my L gets back to her L. So one crazy threat: w has said if she doesn’t get what she wants that she will refuse to d and we will remain legally married but she won’t act like it. How is one to respond to such proclamations?

[Gordie]

Gord, glad to see you opened another thread. We are on a similar timeline from BD, but mine seemed to be done much quicker. I'm 11 months post move out date. It has been a long 11 months, but the thing that we learn in this is that it won't kill us and that we are very capable of making things work.

There are so many things that help get us thru this, but the number one for me were two F's...Faith and Friends. Neither will let you down, and if you friends share your faith it makes it that much better.

I'm not saying that I don't have rough patches...Hell I teared up at the end "The Urban Cowboy" last night when they rode off together. Reasons...one of her favorite movies, one of her favorite stars, one of my favorite soundtracks, plus Jack Daniels makes me emotional. That being said, I woke up this morning with my nose to the grind stone and in prayer. I lift you and your family up in prayer every day. Please know that you are not alone in this.

Right now it is a business transaction...treat it as such. You would never want to make a bad deal with your business and you sure don't want to with this. Stay strong my friend.

SBJ,

I think I feel the same way about d and post d life as you do. Thank you for your response on my prior thread and thank you for your prayers. I am doing better at praying for myself and my children and my family every day. I definitely left faith instruction to my w so have also been figuring out how I can now take that upon myself. I have been very private about my faith and realizing this has made me be more open to them about what I believe and why. Yes, I should have been doing this all along but it’s better late than never. I can see how this experience makes you drop your faith or cling to it. I hope for the latter. Lately my prayer has been: Lord, give me the strength to make it through today, just one more day.

And no, I realize this settlement will dictate the rest of my life and can’t let w dictate exactly what she wants without regard to my well being. We will both lose a lot. She doesn’t recognize that.

[Gordie]

Gordie,
I can't remember if I've posted to you in the past, but I've followed your thread and just wanted to stop by and offer a word of encouragement. I can read the pain in your posts, but I think you're doing some of the hardest work right now, and digging deep inside yourself for answers to questions that you probably wouldn't have even asked yourself before this chapter. Who are you apart from her? I think we all lose sight of that about ourselves over a long marriage.

You will get to the other side of this. We all will. One day at a time.

Leah sue,

Thanks for stopping by and thanks for the encouragement. Part of the reason I post here is to verbalize a lot of the pain and other feelings that I am keeping inside. I am a natural stuffer so posting here and talking to friends IRL helps me to get it out and process it. Thank you for being a sounding board! And the encouragement and advice here is invaluable. Some of my IRL friends offer live and support but have no idea how hard this really is and I know all of you here do.

[Gordie]

Journaling:

So have been faking my happiness when at home. I think it makes me a better father and more agreeable acquaintance to stbx. It beats being sad and angry and moping. I’m doing this for me. Funny thing is, I do think stbx finds my cheeriness somewhat surprising and annoying. O well. She was grumpy last night and I didn’t pursue by asking her why or trying to make her feel better. I was just cheery. I can only control me. And yes, faking it...does make me feel better. After some minutes of this awkward contrasts of moods, stbx distanced herself for the rest of the evening. I am happy I remained steady and emotionally independent.

[bttrfly]

how does one respond? one doesn't.

[roist]

Well done. Being cheery with a live in mlcer is really hard to do. Even faking it is a real achievement.

As for her threat about not following through with the D if she doesn't get everything she wants, as bttrfly pointed out there is no need to reply. Cross that bridge if you come to it. That may be a question for your coach
nin your next session though.

My have a lot of thoughts about that comment, but for now it's not worth dwelling on.

As irrational as her threat is (considering you never wanted to D) it does show she realises she may not get everything she wants. That's good. Be prepared for other tactics. It's also positive that D isn't her priority. She only wants it if she gets x Y and Z. Thirdly continuing to live with you is an option. Many couldn't contemplate that.

However are you willing to go down that road? She has asked for a D. If that doesn't go to her liking, she wants to live together but separated!! Whereas you don't need to reply to her nor dwell on this for now, it could be beneficial to identify what gordie wants. Not giving her this option should be considered.

Best wishes

[Gordie]

Butterfly and Roist,

Thanks. I didn’t say anything when she said that. Who knows if she really meant it. I’m not negotiating directly with stbx. I’m giving feedback to L and letting him counter propose something acceptable to me. We shall see her response.

***

Clearly a year of building connection did not work to bust this d. So q about LRT. It seems as if I am distancing myself from her and she is distancing herself from me. We are cordial. We are not friends. We are co parents. There is no physical contact or emotional connection at present. I only do things for her if she specifically asks for them as D B coach thought this was good to do. So how do I know if LRT is making things better or worse?

She stopped all physical contact. She no longer calls or texts me. When I ask how was your day? She just says good. I don’t probe beyond that.

Previously I felt I was in the platonic friend zone. Now I feel as we are mere acquaintances or strangers.

We both socialize independently not one another. I am transparent with her and kids about what I am doing. Stbx just disappears.

[OwnIt]

I hear a sadness there. I think this is a necessary part of her journey. How can she ever dispel that myth of life on the other side if she never lives it. How can it ever be anything but a fantasy calling out to her.

This is a necessary stage. She has to leave in order to come back. You are a very tough guy and she is going to be there and present in your life because of the kids.

That distance is scary now, but soon you will welcome it. In the quiet of being alone you will be able to examine your own wants and needs and stop focusing on what she is doing and what she wants.

You will find peace, and I think in that peace you will find answers.

[Gordie]

O: I hear a sadness there. I think this is a necessary part of her journey. How can she ever dispel that myth of life on the other side if she never lives it. How can it ever be anything but a fantasy calling out to her.

G: yes, I’m sad. Yes, it hurts. I know you at right. She needs to pursue life without me.

O: This is a necessary stage. She has to leave in order to come back. You are a very tough guy and she is going to be there and present in your life because of the kids.

G: You are right about her needing to leave. It takes all of my willpower not to pursue her. Tough guy? No, I don’t feel so touch these days. And yes, we’re going to have daily contact with each other for a long time.

O: That distance is scary now, but soon you will welcome it. In the quiet of being alone you will be able to examine your own wants and needs and stop focusing on what she is doing and what she wants.

G: it sure is scary now. And right now, I detest the distance. I feel lonely. I am on a trip right now and for my whole married life I have called stbx and talked about what happened in our days. But now, I’m not calling her and she’s not calling me. That hurts. I still love and desire that connection to her which is idiotic when she doesn’t feel the same. Part of my brain says: give her space, don’t call her. Another part says: call her and create connection.

O: You will find peace, and I think in that peace you will find answers.

G: thanks for the encouragement. I am praying for peace.

[OwnIt]

Gordie. a weak man could never have done what you have for so long. Don't undermine yourself now,

[LH19]

Clearly a year of building connection did not work to bust this d. So q about LRT. It seems as if I am distancing myself from her and she is distancing herself from me. We are cordial. We are not friends. We are co parents. There is no physical contact or emotional connection at present. I only do things for her if she specifically asks for them as D B coach thought this was good to do. So how do I know if LRT is making things better or worse?

I have followed your situation for the last year and I have to say that you should first commend yourself on doing everything you possibly could to turn this thing around. IMO you executed most situations perfectly. Please understand that this has nothing to do with you and it has everything to do about her. For Fs sake she said you guys were "soul mates". What person in their right mind walks away from their soul mate?

IMO where you at right now is exactly where you want to be. Co-parents is the relationship you want with her for right now. I have been doing that now since May, I still live in the same home and sleep in the same bed until the D is final and I am so detached it's scary. I never would have believed that 4 months ago. Was it lonely at first? H$ll yes it was! But then it got easier and easier everyday. You know why it got easier? Because I really started to think about why am I trying to hold onto to something that is trying so hard to get away?

My advice to you is to forget about the techniques (LRT, Going Dark, etc) and aim for detachment. In my mind detachment is not a technique it is a way of life. It is time to drop the rope and sent her out into the cruel, cruel world alone without your protection. It's time for Gordie to start living the life he wants to live alone for now.

[bttrfly]

Gordie why LH19 said x10000

I have managed to have a solid 9 days (a record since BD) of peace.
I attribute it to daily meditation of the Buddhist Loving Kindness meditation.
thanks to ... Roist for the excel at life site suggestion. Go listen to the meditation. Do it. Take the 10 minutes and do that meditation. I promise you. It will help you get centered. Also, check in with your DB coach.

You've done an amazing job this past year. Stay strong. This absolutely isn't about you, and frankly, she's nuts to walk out on someone like you.

xoxoxo

[bttrfly]

what not why ^^^

[CaliGuy]

Gordie

I follow you a bit, not often things compel me to post as typically most the advice given here is spot on as this forum collects people who have or are going through what you are and that in itself is a huge help ... the advice here I always took to heart vs the "Dump her a$$" the real life crowd typically gives you.

You asked about LRT .... well just as the name indicates, this is the Last Resort ... you have done everything upto this point. I did the same ... played the sitch to the letter, sure mistakes here and there, but with the tools I had, just like you, we did the best we could. I usually speak with visual analogies, my way of trying to get a message across. I view LRT like a person who has been chasing a cat ... the more you chase, the faster it goes ... you stop it stops ... you start running after it again and it sprints out of sight back into the tunnel. LRT is like sitting on the couch ... going through the tele with the remote (GAL/Mirror work) and becoming so consumed with that movie (Gordies life.....Staring Gordie) nothing really matters, in fact you forget that cat even lived in the house until it comes up next to you purring wanting attention (Mine would do this often only to scratch the crap out of me and run away again).

I did not look as LRT as giving up, just completely changing tactics because what I was doing was not working.

[Gordie]

LH: I have followed your situation for the last year and I have to say that you should first commend yourself on doing everything you possibly could to turn this thing around. IMO you executed most situations perfectly. Please understand that this has nothing to do with you and it has everything to do about her.

G: yes, acceptance of this has been slow and difficult. If it was about me then I could change the outcome! But if it’s not about me, then I’m powerless to affect the dissolution of the marriage.

LH: For Fs sake she said you guys were "soul mates". What person in their right mind walks away from their soul mate?

G: I have asked myself that a million times.

LH: IMO where you at right now is exactly where you want to be. Co-parents is the relationship you want with her for right now. I have been doing that now since May, I still live in the same home and sleep in the same bed until the D is final and I am so detached it's scary. I never would have believed that 4 months ago. Was it lonely at first? H$ll yes it was! But then it got easier and easier everyday. You know why it got easier? Because I really started to think about why am I trying to hold onto to something that is trying so hard to get away?

G: this is exactly where I am now. Why? There’s no good answer.

LH: My advice to you is to forget about the techniques (LRT, Going Dark, etc) and aim for detachment. In my mind detachment is not a technique it is a way of life. It is time to drop the rope and sent her out into the cruel, cruel world alone without your protection. It's time for Gordie to start living the life he wants to live alone for now.

G: thank you. It’s been three days since I have had any interaction with stbx and this is hard. I am so tempted to call or text to reach out. It’s made me realize how not detached I am. I think about her when I wake up and during the day and when I lay down. This attachment to someone who doesn’t want me...it’s unhealthy. I guess one of the hard parts is that I still don’t want to live alone without stbx...but my head and my heart have to accept that as my reality...stop denying it, start embracing it.

[Gordie]

Gordie why LH19 said x10000

I have managed to have a solid 9 days (a record since BD) of peace.
I attribute it to daily meditation of the Buddhist Loving Kindness meditation.
thanks to ... Roist for the excel at life site suggestion. Go listen to the meditation. Do it. Take the 10 minutes and do that meditation. I promise you. It will help you get centered. Also, check in with your DB coach.

You've done an amazing job this past year. Stay strong. This absolutely isn't about you, and frankly, she's nuts to walk out on someone like you.

xoxoxo

Butterfly,

I tried out that meditation. Thank you. It’s so simple, and...calming.

I’m doing better at not blaming myself for this mess. And I’m also doing better and not blaming stbx.

I read something from Hegel. Tragedy is not when right conflicts with wrong; it’s when right conflicts with right. In my situation it means: I am right to want to save my m and family. She is right to want to save herself. The tragedy is that these two rights are incompatible.

Does that make sense to anyone?

[Gordie]

Cali: I follow you a bit, not often things compel me to post as typically most the advice given here is spot on as this forum collects people who have or are going through what you are and that in itself is a huge help ... the advice here I always took to heart vs the "Dump her a$$" the real life crowd typically gives you.

G: thanks for stopping by...you have been a lighthouse to me!

Cali: You asked about LRT .... well just as the name indicates, this is the Last Resort ... you have done everything upto this point. I did the same ... played the sitch to the letter, sure mistakes here and there, but with the tools I had, just like you, we did the best we could.

G: yes, that is where I am now.

Cali: I usually speak with visual analogies, my way of trying to get a message across. I view LRT like a person who has been chasing a cat ... the more you chase, the faster it goes ... you stop it stops ... you start running after it again and it sprints out of sight back into the tunnel. LRT is like sitting on the couch ... going through the tele with the remote (GAL/Mirror work) and becoming so consumed with that movie (Gordies life.....Staring Gordie) nothing really matters, in fact you forget that cat even lived in the house until it comes up next to you purring wanting attention (Mine would do this often only to scratch the crap out of me and run away again).

G: this is awesome! I have a cat and know what you’re talking about, except I have a super friendly cat who acts more like a dog and always wants to be with me, but I know what you’re talking about!

Cali: I did not look as LRT as giving up, just completely changing tactics because what I was doing was not working.

G: yes, even though it doesn’t feel good...this is my last resort. The d train is in motion. It’s highly unlikely that the train can be stopped but I still want to bust this d if I can. What I’ve been doing hasn’t worked so why not do what all of you have been saying? I have nothing to lose and myself and my sanity and my sense of control of my life to gain. It’s just really hard to look away from that cat and stop wondering where she is and what she is doing and what she is thinking...but that’s something I can control.

[bttrfly]

Gordie, you're welcome. Do it in the morning and evening if you can. I cannot tell you what a change that practice has wrought within me. A true gift of peace!

Yes, that does make a lot of sense. xoxoxo

[Gordie]

So I resisted calling or texting stbx for three straight days—longest NC of my married life—and then she called me last night just to say hello. We talked for a about 5 minutes. She asked how my trip was going and I asked how was your weekend. And then we said goodnight. I honestly was surprised and happy she called. Trying not to read anything into this. The cat wanted to come by and get stroked for a few minutes, nothing more or less, right?

[bttrfly]

Exactly
Try to Be grateful for the contact and leave it
At that. Hard to
Do
Xo

[Gordie]

I keep flip flopping on this idea of being friends with stbx.

What do people make of the following article? Clearly, unconditional friendship was the path to R for this man:

http://m.divorcebusting.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.divorcebusting.com%2Findex.htm&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.divorcebusting.com%2Fforums%2Fubbthreads.php%3Fubb%3Dshowflat%26Number%3D2764076%26page%3D3#2720

[SBJ]

Could not pull up the article with the link. Try it again.

[Gordie]

It’s the article on the Home Page “While your spouse decides” (in case this doesn’t work again):

http://m.divorcebusting.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.divorcebusting.com%2Findex.htm&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.divorcebusting.com%2Fforums%2Fubbthreads.php%3Fubb%3Dpostlist%26Board%3D28%26page%3D3#2720

[CaliGuy]

Gordie

I had not read that article before .... I am one who does not agree with everything here, more of the 'use what works' type and for me that approach did not/would not work. My MLCr used that approach as a cake eat fest and it left me very frustrated and confused till I had to go as NC as one can with children.

I am not saying it wouldn't work ... seems like for that poster it did, but I also question if there were boundaries set up, and if he used the friendship as a covert contract and ended up more frustrated than before seems he may not have saved the marriage just out-lasted the affair, I would be curious to see if there was a repeat affair later as for her it appears nothing was learned nor lost. I was not one who is/will be ok with my W having a BF, just one of those pesky boundaries I have, and one would hope this is a respected stance ..... if you were with a person who was tolerant of you sleeping with other people in your relationship I just do not believe you have much of a relationship.

I am not saying be nasty .... but my exchanges with my MLCr are strictly logistics concerning S and financials here and there, but these were the boundaries I had to implement after years of trial and error.


To circle around to the 3 days NC and her calling you .... stay at zero with the expectations, in fact its not a bad thing to not be available. She will test you quite a bit since you have now changed the rules .... she may even act out testing you more intensely ... this is all normal just giving you a heads up of whats to come ... they will pout when there are new rules in the game they created.

[Ginger1]

What does being "friends" with your ex mean? Hanging out? Doing stuff for eachother? Having dinner? Confiding in her? How do you define "friends?"

My ex and I are friendly, but not friends. We can talk, we can joke, we can be in the same place at the same time (even with OWW) and it's light and fine. Do we hang out because we enjoy eachother's company? If he is having a problem at work, does he talk to me about it? No. I am not his wife. Will we have an occasional dinner together with our D10? Yeah, because we are at a place we can do that for our D.

We are even at a place where he was actually going to change my car battery for me when I had surgery. But we are still not friends.

Don't worry about being friends now. Take care of yourself and the divorce. Friends is something you think about down the line.

[bttrfly]

Gordie,
Let's make this simple:
How do your friends treat you? Think about that behavior, what's acceptable, what's not acceptable. Write things down.

Now, think about how your STBXW treats you.

If any of your friends treated you that way, would you still consider it a healthy friendship?

Ginger is right: you can be friendly but not friends.

The choice is yours and it's going to ebb, flow and evolve.

Focus on what you need and what you will need and what's best for your kids.

xoxoxo

[Gordie]

Cali, Ginger, Butterfly,

Thanks. Yes, feeling like I can’t be friends right now and feel somewhat guilty about that. The story of the guy staying best friends with his XW as a means to R...I was shocked but obviously on the website for a reason. It just seems so contradictory to the advice given here. Think your advice to leave it be right now is good too. No need to stress over making some decision now. One day at s time. Cross that bridge when I get to it.

***

Journaling:

Came home from my trip and was a little anxious about the entry. I acted happy and friendly when I got home but did not pursue conversation. I put the kids to bed and then did my own thing and went to bed without saying goodnight. Stbx came into my room later and I was half asleep and she kissed me on the forehead and said I love you. She hasn’t said that in quite a long time. Today she was actually wearing her wedding ring. I noticed but didn’t make any comment.

[OwnIt]

Gordie:

As more time goes by, I am realizing that my H has done me a huge favor by saying so many nasty things to me, neglecting my children and playing money games. I believe it is making it easier for me to detach and let go and imagine a better life on the other side. I think my life, and that of my kids, is already better now than any point in the last decade.

I can't imagine how difficult it would be if he acted as a parent to the children, told me he loved me, etc. We have not have any of those things in years.

I can see how this would lead to a temptation to want to be friends. I follow another board where some folks speculate it is the ones who are friendly that come back. I think you won't have a good idea on that until she does leave and you see how she behaves.

With mine, the more I distance, the more he distances. This does not bother me. It is what I want. It seems yours is coming in a little closer as you begin to distance more. The only way you will bear that out is by continuing on as you have been.

You've been at it a long time, a little change up and follow through with your current strategy may help. Try not to fear it.

People like you and the other compassionate and caring men on this board give me hope that my children and I may have a good person in our lives at some point. I hope that you achieve your dream of reconciling your family.

[roist]

Wow, that I love you with a forehead kiss must be very confusing for you. It sure beats a spewfest. Acknowledge it but don't dwell on it. Don't change your tactics,though I liked the advice that you should be concentrating on living your life rather than doing tactics.

It isn't easy but you are doing great.

Best wishes

[leahsue]

Wow, Gordie, those tender moments (to quote Ownit) make is SO hard to keep your head straight. They make it so confusing. My H was here for a week and loved on me more than he has in the last two years! Once he got on that plane and left, he was GONE. My head is more confused now than before he came for the visits! In some ways, I think I'd have been better off if he had just stayed away and silent. I was on my way to healing, but that week sent me spinning again!

I think you're doing great. Don't read too much into the tenderness. She can turn it right back off, leaving you reeling again. Slow and steady for you.

[SBJ]

Gord, sorry about the mind-f6@#. As most have said here, you are doing great in this storm that you didn't ask for.

I'm sure you are totally confused with all of the mixed signals, but I'd think that she is even more confused. I know I wouldn't change places with a MLC'er for anything. Even though we are spinning...they are spinning too.

I truly believe that if you put your eyes straight ahead and focus on trusting that Christ has the best intentions for you, you will be able to weather this storm. I will admit that there are times that I still fail to hold it together, but then I refocus and get myself back in line.

One day at a time my brother...

[CaliGuy]

Kitty wants attention. She is sensing you pulling back so she needs to make sure she gets you right where she left you. As confusing as her actions can make you feel ... she is even more confused I will guarantee it, the closer it gets to being real and final the more you will see her flip flop ... its a dance move I have witnessed for over 4 years now.

[HaWho]

Lots of yo-yo-ing over there.

You recently mentioned that all the effort you made was not able to defer her from filing. Just a friendly reminder that it's not yours to fix. As we get more distance from our sitches we really see that. You treated her with kindness and you can be very proud of that. They do remember the way they were treated.

Her confusion is affirmation that she is just not quite right these days. And you can't unscramble that for her. She can't even do it!!

Continue building a life like she isn't there.

[job]

HaWho,

Excellent advice!

[Gordie]

Ownit: As more time goes by, I am realizing that my H has done me a huge favor by saying so many nasty things to me, neglecting my children and playing money games. I believe it is making it easier for me to detach and let go and imagine a better life on the other side. I think my life, and that of my kids, is already better now than any point in the last decade.

G: a huge favor? Bleh. I hear what you are saying in terms of making it easier to detach but I wouldn’t wish your H’s behavior on anyone. The fact that your life is better now is awesome. I am so happy for you.

Ownit: I can't imagine how difficult it would be if he acted as a parent to the children, told me he loved me, etc. We have not have any of those things in years. I can see how this would lead to a temptation to want to be friends. I follow another board where some folks speculate it is the ones who are friendly that come back. I think you won't have a good idea on that until she does leave and you see how she behaves.

G: yes, the fact that we are friendly does give the temptation to be friends. Interesting that you think the friendly ones are more likely to come back. No idea on that front and agree I won’t have an idea of what our post d relations will be like.

Ownit: With mine, the more I distance, the more he distances. This does not bother me. It is what I want. It seems yours is coming in a little closer as you begin to distance more. The only way you will bear that out is by continuing on as you have been. You've been at it a long time, a little change up and follow through with your current strategy may help. Try not to fear it.

G: thanks for the encouragement. I still have a lot of fear, honestly, but am finding my courage, one day at a time.

Ownit: People like you and the other compassionate and caring men on this board give me hope that my children and I may have a good person in our lives at some point. I hope that you achieve your dream of reconciling your family.

G: thank you; as many have said, you deserve better and believe better will find you at the right time.

[Gordie]

Roost: Wow, that I love you with a forehead kiss must be very confusing for you. It sure beats a spewfest. Acknowledge it but don't dwell on it. Don't change your tactics,though I liked the advice that you should be concentrating on living your life rather than doing tactics.

G: thanks, yes that was great advice. It’s relieved my own stress in that I worry less about when I make “mistakes”...and ask fewer if the should I be doing this or that questions. Just trying to focus more on me and less on her. Easier said than done, but simpler for me at this stage. Confusing? Yes, but then I just try to move on.

[Gordie]

Leah sue: Gordie, those tender moments (to quote Ownit) make is SO hard to keep your head straight. They make it so confusing. My H was here for a week and loved on me more than he has in the last two years! Once he got on that plane and left, he was GONE. My head is more confused now than before he came for the visits! In some ways, I think I'd have been better off if he had just stayed away and silent. I was on my way to healing, but that week sent me spinning again! I think you're doing great. Don't read too much into the tenderness. She can turn it right back off, leaving you reeling again. Slow and steady for you.

G: Wow, that visit sounds “nice” but I can see how it would make you spin. Don’t let it get you off track from healing. And you are absolutely right...she can go from warm to cold in an instant...and I am not detached enough to just shake it off.

[Gordie]

SBJ: sorry about the mind-f6@#. As most have said here, you are doing great in this storm that you didn't ask for.

G: you are so right...couldn’t have said that better myself.

SBJ: I'm sure you are totally confused with all of the mixed signals, but I'd think that she is even more confused. I know I wouldn't change places with a MLC'er for anything. Even though we are spinning...they are spinning too.

G: great reminder and yes, I’d much rather be me in this situation.

SBJ: I truly believe that if you put your eyes straight ahead and focus on trusting that Christ has the best intentions for you, you will be able to weather this storm. I will admit that there are times that I still fail to hold it together, but then I refocus and get myself back in line.

G: with God, all things are possible, right?

[Gordie]

Kitty wants attention. She is sensing you pulling back so she needs to make sure she gets you right where she left you. As confusing as her actions can make you feel ... she is even more confused I will guarantee it, the closer it gets to being real and final the more you will see her flip flop ... its a dance move I have witnessed for over 4 years now.

Cali, you are spot on. I can’t believe you have experienced four years of flip flopping. My d b coach always says that: your w is very confused.

[Gordie]

Lots of yo-yo-ing over there.

You recently mentioned that all the effort you made was not able to defer her from filing. Just a friendly reminder that it's not yours to fix. As we get more distance from our sitches we really see that. You treated her with kindness and you can be very proud of that. They do remember the way they were treated.

Her confusion is affirmation that she is just not quite right these days. And you can't unscramble that for her. She can't even do it!!

Continue building a life like she isn't there.

HaWho, awesome reminder. I’m still a fixer at heart and part of me wants to believe that yes, I can fix her and change her mind about the d! Alas, reality is that I cannot. Interesting that you say they remember how they were treated. I sometimes wonder about that, if there is any perception of what is going on.

[Gordie]

Journaling:

I am continuing my version of LRT. NC except kids and finances. Still under the same roof, though less and less time together. Some days we aren’t even at home at the same times so really don’t interact. When I do see her, I am friendly but am not acting as a friend. I have successfully resisted all texting and phone calling when we are apart.

I got one unsolicited half hug and one unsolicited kiss on the cheek. She also initiated one conversation with me to tell me what she has been doing. I listened.

She continues to go out a lot in the evening when I am home and I don’t ask where she is going. Tonight, she got alll dressed up to go out and I told her she looked nice like I would to a roommate and then she told me where she was going but not with whom and again, I didn’t ask.

Next week or two may be high drama. My L will be giving her L my counter proposal on the settlement. We also have another court date coming up. She postponed the last one, not sure if she will do that again.

[bttrfly]

keep doing what brings you peace. xoxoxo

[Gordie]

Journaling:

Little boy woke up around 2am with a bad dream and he goes to W’s room looking for comfort. She is still out partying and so comes to my room crying, “where is mommy? Where is mommy?” I comfort him and get him back to sleep but then I am so angry that I can’t sleep. W comes home around 4am. I can’t believe that this is now routine, that 20+ years of m and family are being trashed.

W actually was speaking to a friend on the phone in my presence advising: you have to make the most out of life and that the decisions you made in your youth don’t have to bind you for life and that if there are circumstances or people in your life that make you unhappy, that you should discard them and move on. Maybe d is contagious.

[HaWho]

I am sorry. Your poor little boy.

I hated those days. I have the most triggers from those days. It was all so wildly unattractive. I never found irresponsible bad boys even remotely attractive. I also was very angry at what I was seeing.

So they do ditch old friends and make friends with people who validate their choices/new lifestyle. My h made besties with two men: both were nearly 50, never married and lived like they were 20. They were really foolish men. Of course he couldn't do this all with decent married men as they were all at home being healthy responsible men (who would never condone this behavior).

You know you do have choices here, right? You can ask that if she's going out for the night that she just stay elsewhere as it's disruptive to have her come and go.
Or you can try to ride it out.

Keep being that rock for you kids.

[AndrewP]

W actually was speaking to a friend on the phone in my presence advising: you have to make the most out of life and that the decisions you made in your youth don’t have to bind you for life and that if there are circumstances or people in your life that make you unhappy, that you should discard them and move on. Maybe d is contagious.

Gordie - this is going to be one of the toughest times of your life. Steel yourself and be strong.

She is justifying to herself what she has done and what she is going to be doing. She has surrounded herself with "echo chambers" that will reinforce her decisions and will refuse to listen to anyone else. In my case my W re-connected to her sister who has a history of infidelity and many others. She dropped out of sight to others. I would hear her phone almost constantly beeping with messages at all hours of the day and night. When she would go for actual walks, or when she was driving her car she would have loud, fast music cranked up to "11".

When she left - she said that she was leaving to "escape the noise". I have no idea what her life is like now.

Part of your W's mind though will require her to justify to herself and to a degree others around her that what she is doing is "right". She won't listen to any other opinions.

So - you duty is to stand firm. Be the "sane parent" when the world has gone mad. Your children will actually need to be protected during this time and you may want to research in to counseling for them and perhaps reach out to their school to let them know that things are "difficult at home right now". I know that co-parenting / parallel parenting is a thing that you will be dealing with longer term but for now just presume that your W has "checked out" and can't be relied upon for anything.

You will get through this though. There is indeed a Far Shore. And when you are standing there, you can stand proudly knowing that you have done everything and more that any man could have done for his family.

[Irish M]

I comfort him and get him back to sleep but then I am so angry that I can’t sleep. W comes home around 4am. I can’t believe that this is now routine, that 20+ years of m and family are being trashed.

that's all you can do Gordie. Love and love you son. Give him enough from you and double it up. He will look to you more and more as the one to go to. The one to trust. Show him strength and he will have strength.

You are allowed to set boundaries with your W. Tell her how it is affecting your son. Sadly she won't listen and downplay it

As for the team building on MLC gone bad. She will advise and cling to others in the same fantasy world to make herself feel like she is doing the right things. Giving advise was my XW goal. She told me it was to prevent others from doing what she did.

keep being great dad. That is you most important role in all this.

[bttrfly]

Gordie,
First of all {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}} for you and your children.

Next. This is not a good DB advice, but perhaps I have a different perspective today. Get a notebook. Go back as far as you can remember and write down every date for when your STBXW stayed out all night or until the wee hours. Document it. You posted about the dates here, so that should help.

Then, call your lawyer. Ask if there's any value in documenting this.

I'm sorry if this is a hurtful question but I have to ask, Gordie, is she someone who will be a good primary caretaker for your children? I ask this because I'm worried. I'm worried about your kids. I'm worried about you.

I don't want to see you getting taken to the cleaners by STBXW, only to have her continue this irresponsible college girl behavior while you foot the bill and the kids are neglected.

Don't count on her changing her behavior post D. Don't count on anything with an MLCr.

You have to protect yourself and protect and advocate for your kids. I do not say this lightly, or to escalate bad feelings between you and your STBXW. I am genuinely concerned about your kids once you are divorced and she is majority custodial parent.

xoxoxoxo

I apologize if this is harsh or out of line

[CaliGuy]

Gordie.... these are the toughest of times.

Mine moved out knowing I would not tolerate the late nights of her coming and going, she tried it once early going to the movies and I was not so cool with it.

You will notice as HaWho mentioned she will be collecting new friends supportive of the lifestyle she is about to dive head first into on her quest for 'true happiness'....I labeled this group as the "You-go-girl Gang". MLCrs can not handle judgement so they will align themselves with others who live the single lifestyle in their 40's, maybe attach to a younger crowd, or pair up with some fellow MLCrs.... the actions are all strangely similar and you just have to watch from afar as they run themselves ragged.
This is a journey she will have to take and exhaust all options of this percieved happiness before things will sink in that what she is looking for is buried inside her under all the issues she refuses to deal with.

Hang in there man ... its a bumpy road but one you will be served well to take if you continue to work on yourself.

[OwnIt]

Gordie:

I'm so sorry. When moms can't be moms anymore they don't have a lot of utility in the home for the kids. Maybe she needs to be out there living the wild life. Just do as bttrfly says and make sure the kids are safe when in her custody. Thankfully I haven't had to deal with that part of it.

[Rose888]

Are you angry with her because there is a developing pattern of her not being there for the kids? Or is a lot of your anger because of the divorce in general and it is coloring how you see this incident?

Your son had a bad dream and wanted his mom, but she wasn’t there. Instead, Dad was there to comfort him.

Would you have been angry if his nightmare woke him at 10 and your wife wasn’t home? I doubt he knew what time it was.

I don’t think you believe a mother should never leave her kids at night, even overnight, so was your anger really tied to her not being there for your son in that moment?

I might have missed that her behavior is crossing into neglect of the kids. If that’s the case, then I encourage you to ignore this post.

[Gordie]

Rose, yes I think you are right. I am angry about the d and this was a trigger. Thank you always for your perspective.

HaWho, you are right that this GGW phase has been more trying to me. This is coming to an end so am riding it out.

Ownit, absolutely my concern is the kids. I am going to have full access to the kids every day no matter who has custody on that day. W agreed to this.

Cali “you go girl gang” perfectly sums it up. Your point that she has to explore all options is sadly true too.

Bttrfly, thank you. I don’t think she’s a danger to the children. She only goes out all night when she knows I will be there.

Irish, you’ve got that right. All my focus has to be on my kids and their welfare. Like you, I want to be their rock as we weather this storm. MLC team building—made me laugh!

Andrew, it is crazy all the twisted self justification there is. Trying to do better at not getting sucked into it. And that Far Shore? It is looking sweeter and sweeter.

You guys are the best support team!

[Gordie]

Journaling:

W told me she is seeming someone new. This is not the original POM. She said it is getting serious and she wants me to meet him. I said I don’t want to meet him. She said she wants to tell me about him. I said I don’t want her to tell me about him. Can I tell you his name? No. I want you to meet and be friends. I want you to know about him because he is an important part of my life. Being with him makes me realize how much I love and respect you. I said that doesn’t make sense to me. If you loved and respected me then we’d Do what you said you wanted last summer—to build a new R with me. She says I love you but I just can’t be married to you. I want us to be friends.

[roist]

Sorry for that blow. Maybe now is the time to state you don't want to be friends and ye won't be. Can you see her dilusion that you will become best buds with OM and life goes on smoothly.

Best wishes

You replied well to her.

[AndrewP]

^^^^ This

[SBJ]

Sorry for that batchitcrazy stuff. It is a total mind job. I cannot imagine what you are feeling, but please know that we are on team Gordie. She is totally delusional and for whatever reason, she feels that you should be OK with her doing this.

I guess there are runners and there are those that think we will all live happily ever after as best friends with them and their new squeeze. It would be humorous if it wasn't so darn sad.

We're here for you brother. Please know that this is not of your doing. Stay strong and focus on you and your children. She will have to figure herself out. We cannot fix them because we did not break them.

God bless...

[CaliGuy]

Godie

Wow ... so reading that last post she has shifted you into the Authoritative role, like bringing a new boyfriend home to meet her father.

"Friends" ... I told mine I had no interest in being freinds nor accepting the demotion. I told her that I honestly could not think of one friend I had who would lie cheat and steal from me, not one would disrespect me nor my family ... I just do not keep friends who lack character in that way.

[Gordie]

Roist and AndrewP,

Yes, you are right. I can be friendly but I can’t be friends with this woman. If I thought it would change things then maybe I could, but it clearly won’t. She is on her own now. It hurts me to write that, but It is reality.

[Gordie]

SBJ,

Yes, delusional is a nice way of putting it. I feel...angry. I’m at that point where I am looking forward to this phase of my life being over. It ****ing s**** but have to accept this as my reality.

Cali,

Yes, I thought about this after our talk. Why does she want to to introduce him to me??? She does want me to be ok with this whole situation. I am *not* ok with this. I guess it’s just all part of her La La Land.

[HaWho]

Weird, in only the way MLC can be. It's affirmation that something is so very, very wrong with her.

I just want to remind you that this guy is clearly a lost, broken person. He has to be to be involved with a married mom of 5 who is suddenly doing the Girls Gone Wild routine. She cannot possibly attract a decent man given her current circumstances.

She seems to want everyone to be besties and clearly she is all over the map. I know sometimes she initiates romance and I just want to remind you to protect yourself. I am sure this guy has been around a lot of blocks. Protect your finances as who knows what he is after.

This is a really unattractive phase. It is where I really saw my h morph into his polar opposite. It was surreal; an out of body experience really.

Just keep being the rock for your kids. Focus on you and your kids; let her go.

[OwnIt]

It literally broke my heart to read the things she said to you. I still think the "nicer" packaging of this spew must be so difficult. At least when mine is raging and fuming I see it for what it is.

HaWho as usual is correct. This man is garbage and this "relationship" is not going to last. I think you need to consistently remain firm about him not meeting the kids. Certainly not until after the divorce and at least 6 months into the relationship.

Hopefully she is ashamed of these "relationships" and the children do not know about them and she will want to keep that information from them, which in turn will keep her from trying to put them in front of him. Also a guy of this type is not going to want to meet five young kids under these circumstances. My S confirms that his father has never once mentioned OW2 and he knows that S knows about her. The kids never did meet OW1 either.

Be strong Gordie. It sounds like the ride is going to get bumpier for a while. Take your love and compassion and save it for yourself and your children. Let go emotionally and leave her to her illness. That is really the kindest thing you can do for her now. You won't be able to reason her out of this, nice her out of it, or threaten her out of it.

Let her see your strength and maintain your boundaries with absolute rigidity. Let her know each time she crosses them. She will have zero respect for you if you waiver. It would be better for her to be wary of you than see you as a doormat.

[Kyh]

Hi Gordie,

I caught up on your thread tonight and I’m sorry you’re going by through this. This is so bizarre, your W is really out there right now. I don’t have a lot that hasn’t been said but I’m following along and thinking of you and your kids.

I think Bttrfly had good advice w/journaling her all night outings, etc. Don’t underestimate her, there’s no way to tell what wacky plans our MLCers have. I never thought mine would try to take my kids away from me and run but she did and your w is certainly not right. Her actions remind me of the early days of my xw’s MLC and from her latest actions I wonder if that is back whwere your w is at. I wonder if she hit the restart button with new om when her plan didn’t work.

Hawho is right (she said it a lot nicer than I was going to before I got to her post) she can’t attract a good person right now. What kind of person would first off have an affair, and secondly willingly meet the affair partners husband? Just wow...It’s almost unbelievable but I wouldn’t doubt it considering the people MLCers attract. However, I do have to wonder if she is pulling your strings, just something to consider.

Like others said, drop the rope. You can always pick it up later if it comes to that point.

[roist]

Where are ye on finalising the D or accommodation situation.? I know your L is to get back to hers shortly. In your state, does her having an affair change her entitlements in a settlement? Talk to your L.

You are doing good. I know you don't feel that. But it's true.

Instead of giving into your anger, direct that energy into working towards a good fun and full life without W. Her latest antics will help you turn the page, but put the emphasis on writing the next chapter.

Best wishes

[Gordie]

Weird, in only the way MLC can be. It's affirmation that something is so very, very wrong with her.

I just want to remind you that this guy is clearly a lost, broken person. He has to be to be involved with a married mom of 5 who is suddenly doing the Girls Gone Wild routine. She cannot possibly attract a decent man given her current circumstances.

She seems to want everyone to be besties and clearly she is all over the map. I know sometimes she initiates romance and I just want to remind you to protect yourself. I am sure this guy has been around a lot of blocks. Protect your finances as who knows what he is after.

This is a really unattractive phase. It is where I really saw my h morph into his polar opposite. It was surreal; an out of body experience really.

Just keep being the rock for your kids. Focus on you and your kids; let her go.

Ha who,

Thank you as always for your perspective.

I never thought about what kind of man OM2 is , but you are surely right.

Yes, something is very wrong and she doesn’t understand why I’m not enthusiastic.

We ceased sexual relations a while ago and that door is certainly closed now.

Yes, I’ve got to be there for the kids. W and I are over now. I’m just here for them.

[Gordie]

It literally broke my heart to read the things she said to you. I still think the "nicer" packaging of this spew must be so difficult. At least when mine is raging and fuming I see it for what it is.

HaWho as usual is correct. This man is garbage and this "relationship" is not going to last. I think you need to consistently remain firm about him not meeting the kids. Certainly not until after the divorce and at least 6 months into the relationship.

Hopefully she is ashamed of these "relationships" and the children do not know about them and she will want to keep that information from them, which in turn will keep her from trying to put them in front of him. Also a guy of this type is not going to want to meet five young kids under these circumstances. My S confirms that his father has never once mentioned OW2 and he knows that S knows about her. The kids never did meet OW1 either.

Be strong Gordie. It sounds like the ride is going to get bumpier for a while. Take your love and compassion and save it for yourself and your children. Let go emotionally and leave her to her illness. That is really the kindest thing you can do for her now. You won't be able to reason her out of this, nice her out of it, or threaten her out of it.

Let her see your strength and maintain your boundaries with absolute rigidity. Let her know each time she crosses them. She will have zero respect for you if you waiver. It would be better for her to be wary of you than see you as a doormat.

Ownit,

Think others like you can see more clearly how screwed up this all is.

One of the reasons I don’t want to meet OM2 is that yes, I think she would then feel more emoboldened to bring him around the house and kids, ugh.

Ashamed? No, there is no apparent sense of shame. She righteously declares to me and others how proud of who she is now and women would happier if they followed her example.

And yes, the most loving thing I can do for her and me right now is to let go and distance. I need time to grieve and heal.

[Gordie]

Hi Gordie,

I caught up on your thread tonight and I’m sorry you’re going by through this. This is so bizarre, your W is really out there right now. I don’t have a lot that hasn’t been said but I’m following along and thinking of you and your kids.

I think Bttrfly had good advice w/journaling her all night outings, etc. Don’t underestimate her, there’s no way to tell what wacky plans our MLCers have. I never thought mine would try to take my kids away from me and run but she did and your w is certainly not right. Her actions remind me of the early days of my xw’s MLC and from her latest actions I wonder if that is back whwere your w is at. I wonder if she hit the restart button with new om when her plan didn’t work.

Hawho is right (she said it a lot nicer than I was going to before I got to her post) she can’t attract a good person right now. What kind of person would first off have an affair, and secondly willingly meet the affair partners husband? Just wow...It’s almost unbelievable but I wouldn’t doubt it considering the people MLCers attract. However, I do have to wonder if she is pulling your strings, just something to consider.

Like others said, drop the rope. You can always pick it up later if it comes to that point.

K,

Thanks. I don’t know but have had the same suspicion. Whatever is going on with OM2 pushed her to want to get this D finalized.

And yes, you are right. Why would OM2 want to meet me? Who knows and maybe he is in fantasy land too. My friend have me another reason not to meet him. I might want to punch him in the face and that will not be good for me. No idea if she is pulling my strings. But then the only way to find that out would be to let her tell me about OM2. Another friend said it may benefit me to at least know who it is as there is a decent chance it is someone I know (small community).

And yes, drop the ****ing rope.

[Gordie]

Where are ye on finalising the D or accommodation situation.? I know your L is to get back to hers shortly. In your state, does her having an affair change her entitlements in a settlement? Talk to your L.

You are doing good. I know you don't feel that. But it's true.

Instead of giving into your anger, direct that energy into working towards a good fun and full life without W. Her latest antics will help you turn the page, but put the emphasis on writing the next chapter.

Best wishes

R,

Having an affair has no affect in my state. Her proposal was ridiculous. My L advised I speak to her directly or else this was going to be very long and expensive to negotiate. I didn’t want to do that but I reluctantly did so. Shockingly, she was amenable yo my changes. I think she just doesn’t want to deal with lawyers and negotiations and courts, she just wants this to be over.

I am doing good? Really? I feel like I’ve been run over, repeatedly.

Yes, I’m not comfortable with anger but right now, I am angry. My counselor said I need to give myself permission to be angry. And like you said, direct that anger into a positive purpose.

[Ginger1]

I am surprised he wants to meet you. I did not meet my ex's A partner until they were married. And it was because I had to. I am sure she was happy about that. Any person with an ounce of a soul wouldn't want to face the reality of what they had done. I bet it was harder for her to find out I was a good woman a loving mother and not psycho. That whatever my ex must have told her about me wasn't true. She had to face what she had done when she met me.

She lives in some crazy fantasy world where she thinks her actions have no consequences and she thinks everything is going to go the way she wants.

I am sorry you are having to deal with this. She's such a fool.

[25yearsmlc]

Journaling:

W told me she is seeming someone new. This is not the original POM. She said it is getting serious and she wants me to meet him. I said I don’t want to meet him. She said she wants to tell me about him. I said I don’t want her to tell me about him. Can I tell you his name? No. I want you to meet and be friends. I want you to know about him because he is an important part of my life. Being with him makes me realize how much I love and respect you. I said that doesn’t make sense to me. If you loved and respected me then we’d Do what you said you wanted last summer—to build a new R with me. She says I love you but I just can’t be married to you. I want us to be friends.

um, wtf? My h wanted the kids to meet OW and when they balked, he was angry with them.

I did not know of her at the time.

They have not seen him in over a year now, and there is no contact since sometime last winter, when they were not enthusiastic about having her shoved down their throats.

He posted on Fb about her being the "love of his life" and then about "introducing her to the family", which of course meant meeting his dad and brother. Our kids were not there.

Yes he has a new fan base on the tundra, and lots of "attaboys!" on fb.

None of them know me. It is this public behavior above all others, that strikes me as cruel and or, utterly oblivious of others feelings.

I no longer care which.

Your responses are fine, but your wife is acting insane. It's official.

Maybe you can suggest a CAT scan to rule out a brain tumor, and absent one, inform her that you cannot be part of the narcissistic behavior pattern.


If she is never haunted by the deep pain she is inflicting on the people who loved her the most,

then she has no empathy. And she makes a lousy partner.

And if she is haunted by it, but does nothing to rebuild something, then she makes a lousy partner.

I'm very very sorry for what you're enduring.

[25yearsmlc]

[quote=OwnIt]-
Hopefully she is ashamed of these "relationships" and the children do not know about them and she will want to keep that information from them, which in turn will keep her from trying to put them in front of him. -
--

-
One of the reasons I don’t want to meet OM2 is that yes, I think she would then feel more emoboldened to bring him around the house and kids, ugh.

Ashamed? No, there is no apparent sense of shame. She righteously declares to me and others how proud of who she is now and women would happier if they followed her example.

Agreed. There is No shame.

And no apparent guilt or remorse, b/c they are literally shameless. And they can claim and possibly feel "SO HAPPY!!" Yes it's over the top and weird, but not to them.


To make an obvious point- that somehow escaped me for a long time, is that they would not be doing these things if they had not justified it.

Therefore, all the clever zingers get you nowhere, at best.

Gordie no, this Does not mean you put up with even more crap, but save your breath when you do what you need to do,

and don't try to get in her head. It'll take up time and energy you could have spent in a sane world.

Be the rock for your kids. They need you now more than ever.

[25yearsmlc]

My T said I need to learn to express anger

but I had an alcoholic father who was - actually abusive when he was angry. And my mom had 9 kids so she was often overwhelmed.

I did not see healthy ways to express anger. But yes, I am angry.

I worry that anger will mean I'm bitter or a b1tch, instead of a betrayed person who is justifiably mad as he11. And HEALING in a healthy way!

OTOH, we cannot lose our sh1t or harm our legal interests by blowing up.

I attend a Divorcecare support group I've found immensely helpful (it's national, btw.)

we socialize after the meetings and they "get it".

One of them said to "use your anger as a call to action"

which will help you in the divorce and custody. And btw, even if your wife SAYS she wants half/full insane custody, don't assume she'll use it.

((( )))

[bttrfly]

Wow.
No words.
Delusional is an understatement.
You were much better about it than I would have been. Much, much better.

Yeah, I know the run over repeatedly feeling.

I'm sorry you're here.

Want some good news? There is a beautiful, peaceful life waiting for you and your children. You just have to go through this crap first.

Make absolutely sure you are able to comfortably support yourself post D and live a reasonable lifestyle. DO NOT put yourself in the position of giving this woman a red cent more than necessary. I'm having visions of loser deadbeats living on her alimony with her while you sleep on your parents' couch. PLEASE do not put yourself in that kind of a position.

Ask your lawyer if you can use her need for haste as leverage to get a better deal for yourself and your kids.

Obviously she's been drinking the MLC kool-aid and thinks everyone is going to hold hands and sing Kumbaya in her new world order.

S**** that S***

I'm sorry you're going through this buddy. {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}

[AndrewP]

Gordie - brother

Words cannot express how you must be feeling. I've walked on a similar path to yours but also different so I have a bit of an understanding of what you are going through right now emotionally.

This is going to sound a bit blunt and is perhaps the last thing you want to hear right now but I think that it's important.

Please go and get tested for STDs. You can't trust anything.

I am so sorry you are going through this. I'm actually getting a bit of a flashback on my own reading the latest updates and for me this was more than a year and a half ago.

Take care of yourself first and then your wee ones.

((Gordie)) - hug meant in a manly / brotherly way

[Sotto]

Gordie, I'm sorry to read this and glad you've already received some wise advice from others. It does sound as though she's in a delusional state - oh he's great, you're great - you guys should meet etc...ugh. It isn't uncommon - she hopes it will all be good & go just as she wants it to go. Everyone will like & accept him - and you'll all be chums.

But you know what? That only happens when you have earned your way out of a marriage, and allowed yourself to heal, and treated others decently through all of that. Otherwise, people tend to have strong views and feelings on what you are doing..

One thing I will say about OM - which may help your anger in time - you don't know what he has been told - and that could explain the 'wanting to meet you.' She may be saying - yes we've been S for a while - just living under the same roof until we sell - he's cool with it...IDK but it's possible.

I met XH a year after he and XW1 separated - and they were living apart for that time. But I only recently discovered (from XW1) that they remained more involved than I had known after they S - I had no idea!!! Knowing that has made me realise that XH may have presented himself as more S from me than he was. We had 2 properties and he was using one when he worked away...

Also the 'let's not use a L' thing - XH was just the same. But I went ahead and got advice from a L - mostly based on the insistent advice on this forum. And I didn't regret that. I only have my interests to look after, you have those of your whole family.

I'm sorry that you are in the - it gets worse before it gets better - part. Things are rough just now, so look after yourself, get by day to day and keep your head above water. Try not to engage with her and her stuff - and I agree about the STD test. I also jumped through that hoop, but it took me a good while to get to that point. Now I chuckle and think - wow, you've not really lived until you've been to the STD clinic! It took time to get there though..

((((Hugs))))) in the meantime to you Gordie...

[CaliGuy]

"Shame" "Shame" "Shame"

Nope they just do not feel shame, in fact quite the opposite, they gave you the best years of their lives and as a matter of fact they deserve this/that/the other ... all of it and then some. They wasted years and now its time to cash in .... you only live once. So they go on Amazon Prime and order the MLC package with all the extras ... new life, new person, new perspective and its all filed under selfish but with the 5 gallon bucket of entitlement they just do not see the problem ... in fact if you loved them you would be happy for them and accept this new person they want to show off so badly.

Its a mess .... its at this point you let go or be dragged. I am not saying give up on the M .... but you have to let it drift off in the pond for a bit and regroup, do the mirror work and become stronger as this thing has a knack for wearing even the strongest down.

[job]

Cali,

Very well said. I couldn't have said it any better.

[OwnIt]

Don't want to hijack, but I think it may depend on the individual. I have absolutely, 100% seen first-hand the shame in mine, and repeatedly. This does not come out in words (such as I feel so much shame), but in actions and certain avoidance patterns. If anyone wants to discuss this further, I'd be happy to entertain the discussion on my thread.

[bttrfly]

My God Yes on the STD check! I'd thought of it when first reading your update but then got so irritated with the nonsense she's spewing that I completely forgot to mention that! Thank you Andrew and Sotto! YES. Not a pleasant trip to the Dr, but a necessary one, sadly.

Actually, am I a bad person for making the first call to the doctor rather than a lawyer? Who needs MLC cooties? NOT US!

xoxoxo sending you much love and strength Gordie, for you and your family. Hang in there buddy!

[Gordie]

Ginger: i am surprised he wants to meet you.

G: I have no idea if om2 wants to meet me.

Ginger: I did not meet my ex's A partner until they were married. And it was because I had to. I am sure she was happy about that. Any person with an ounce of a soul wouldn't want to face the reality of what they had done. I bet it was harder for her to find out I was a good woman a loving mother and not psycho. That whatever my ex must have told her about me wasn't true. She had to face what she had done when she met me.

G: that makes a lot more sense to me. No idea how many OMs will come and go in this story, so no need to involve myself in her circus.

Ginger: She lives in some crazy fantasy world where she thinks her actions have no consequences and she thinks everything is going to go the way she wants.

G: you’ve got that right.

Ginger: I am sorry you are having to deal with this. She's such a fool.

G: thank you. I think I’m done blaming myself for this now.

[Gordie]

25: um, wtf? My h wanted the kids to meet OW and when they balked, he was angry with them. I did not know of her at the time.

G: good for your kids and good for you.

25: They have not seen him in over a year now, and there is no contact since sometime last winter, when they were not enthusiastic about having her shoved down their throats.

He posted on Fb about her being the "love of his life" and then about "introducing her to the family", which of course meant meeting his dad and brother. Our kids were not there.

G: estrangement from the children makes me sad, but think your kids are older so can make their own choice.

25: Yes he has a new fan base on the tundra, and lots of "attaboys!" on fb. None of them know me. It is this public behavior above all others, that strikes me as cruel and or, utterly oblivious of others feelings.

G: yeah, Team MLC seems like it has a lot of members. Supporters and enablers who shamelessly support the behavior.

25: i no longer care which. Your responses are fine, but your wife is acting insane. It's official. Maybe you can suggest a CAT scan to rule out a brain tumor, and absent one, inform her that you cannot be part of the narcissistic behavior pattern.

G: I have made no declarations and maybe never will. I’m just removing myself from her life. I wrote myself a note on my way home: only discuss kids, finances or d settlement.

25: if she is never haunted by the deep pain she is inflicting on the people who loved her the most, she has no empathy. And she makes a lousy partner. And if she is haunted by it, but does nothing to rebuild something, then she makes a lousy partner.

G. You are right. J Russ said on his thread he finally acknowledged after many months of d that yes, his w was a very bad w and that he deserves better.

25: I'm very very sorry for what you're enduring.

G: thank you for helping me through this and that I am not going crazy and that I am not the only one to face this. Never in a million years would I have thought...

[Gordie]

My T said I need to learn to express anger

but I had an alcoholic father who was - actually abusive when he was angry. And my mom had 9 kids so she was often overwhelmed.

I did not see healthy ways to express anger. But yes, I am angry.

I worry that anger will mean I'm bitter or a b1tch, instead of a betrayed person who is justifiably mad as he11. And HEALING in a healthy way!

OTOH, we cannot lose our sh1t or harm our legal interests by blowing up.

I attend a Divorcecare support group I've found immensely helpful (it's national, btw.)

we socialize after the meetings and they "get it".

One of them said to "use your anger as a call to action"

which will help you in the divorce and custody. And btw, even if your wife SAYS she wants half/full insane custody, don't assume she'll use it.

((( )))

My father was the same way so whenever that angry feeling comes my natural reaction is to suppress it. I promised myself I would never strike my w or children and I never have. But...as you said and my C said, suppressing this level of anger isn’t good for me either. Find those healthy outlets like getting a great d settlement!

[roist]

Yes, stay away from that circus.

I am in no way defending OM, but it is likely she told him that them was over just awaiting D, which she promptly followed through on. View how she mentioned it to you, I am also sure she assured him you were cook with the situation. That's just speculation on my part, but still probable.

In the end it doesn't really matter. You rightly don't want anything to do with him and ideally with her either.

Have ye told your kids yet? When talking with them, please refrain from being critical or judgemental of her. State you don't agree with her behavior but without criticising. I am part of the group that believe you should not accept joint ownership for the decision.

From this moment on, with the exception of here, never state you want to rebuild a R with W or that you are standing. You don't even have to decide if you are standing or not. Put your focus on surviving, living and eventually thriving.

Best wishes

[Gordie]

B: Wow.
No words.
Delusional is an understatement.
You were much better about it than I would have been. Much, much better.

G: not sure I did better, sometimes I wish I would rage but that’s just not me.

B: Yeah, I know the run over repeatedly feeling. I'm sorry you're here. Want some good news? There is a beautiful, peaceful life waiting for you and your children. You just have to go through this crap first. Make absolutely sure you are able to comfortably support yourself post D and live a reasonable lifestyle. DO NOT put yourself in the position of giving this woman a red cent more than necessary. I'm having visions of loser deadbeats living on her alimony with her while you sleep on your parents' couch. PLEASE do not put yourself in that kind of a position. Ask your lawyer if you can use her need for haste as leverage to get a better deal for yourself and your kids.

G: n f w. I want fair. She will be comfortable. Kids will be comfortable. I will be comfortable. Less for everyone which she somehow doesn’t understand.

B: Obviously she's been drinking the MLC kool-aid and thinks everyone is going to hold hands and sing Kumbaya in her new world.

G: yes and time for me to leave her to that. I need to get busy living my own life.

[Gordie]

Gordie - brother

Words cannot express how you must be feeling. I've walked on a similar path to yours but also different so I have a bit of an understanding of what you are going through right now emotionally.

This is going to sound a bit blunt and is perhaps the last thing you want to hear right now but I think that it's important.

Please go and get tested for STDs. You can't trust anything.

I am so sorry you are going through this. I'm actually getting a bit of a flashback on my own reading the latest updates and for me this was more than a year and a half ago.

Take care of yourself first and then your wee ones.

((Gordie)) - hug meant in a manly / brotherly way

STD check? Yeah...guess you are right. Ugh...this is just depressing.

Thanks for walking with me down this path. Bro hug!

[SBJ]

Gord...2 things that have hit me in your last couple of replies.

1. You should invest in a heavy bag to take out some of your anger on. Trust me when I say it is very therapeutic.

2. If your MLC'er is like mine, she spends money either just to spend it, or trying to buy clothes that make her look 23 instead of 43. I used to have boxes piling in my garage from things she ordered. I don't anymore...hence the spending has gone down and my bank account is happier and healthier.

3. As for the STD check...it's better to be safe than sorry. You and I have been out of the dating game for a long time, but a counselor friend of mine has said that people are very unsafe these days and are passing more around than they have in years.

4. You have done a great job over the last year, but she is in denial of what a true M should be. None of these people going thru MLC will be able to hold down a happy/successful relationship with anyone, but it is difficult because we have to see the ones we love do this crazy $#!^. Detach more, GAL, and remember that it is not your circus anymore.

Let's all have a drink together tonight. At 8pm (CST) I will raise a bourbon to you my brother. Stay strong and remember that He is always with us thru the storms of life.

[Sotto]

Just on the understandable anger topic, I once read that anger is purely energy needing release. So, if we find a way of release - running, punchbag, swimming hard - whatever, but something that channels that energy out. I don't think it has to be released 'as anger' as such - just as energy.

I'm not great at getting angry either, but I do try and work on healthy release rather than holding it in nowadays.

Hope this helps a little anyway Gordie - you're doing really well in touch circumstances..

(((Hugs)))

[Brubeck]

Gordie -

Hello my brother. Catching up on your sitch. Good god. Your W is not doing the same things as my STBXW, but the reactions from you are the same as mine.

Of course she wants you to meet OM. She wants to make this insanity feel normal for you, because it's normal for her. Either that, or she's trying to wind you up, to justify the D. Oh here I go again, trying to mind read the egg salad that is a MLCer's brain.

She thinks it's serious because right now her life is being fulfilled with shallow, superficial needs - including the OM. Even if she gave him the whole "we've been S for months, we're just under the same roof" story, he's still getting involved with a M woman with 5 kids. What kind of baggage does this guy have to overlook those glaring facts?

The more I learned about OM, the less I cared. I still get FURIOUS at times, but it's because I realize I've been tossed aside for something far less.

Good advice elsewhere... keep it business. Nothing else.

Carry on and focus on the kids. I still have trouble taking my eyes of her sometimes - but if I focus on my kids, it's really rewarding. It's something I've learned about GALing, I've learned I was wasting energies devoting myself to activities just to kill time.

My STBXW signed off on our custody agreement. My L included a rule that neither parent can introduce a significant other to the kids for a full year. Food for thought.

Remember, this is something we didn't ask for, and it's changing us in ways we may not want, but only temporarily. If we learn how to weather this storm, we will survive it, learn a few things about ourselves, and build a new life as a wiser person. The MLCer will carry the baggage of their La La Land years long after they've left the tunnel (if they do).

they gave you the best years of their lives and as a matter of fact they deserve this/that/the other ... all of it and then some. They wasted years and now its time to cash in .... you only live once. So they go on Amazon Prime and order the MLC package with all the extras ... new life, new person, new perspective and its all filed under selfish but with the 5 gallon bucket of entitlement they just do not see the problem...

D@mn d@mn d@mn. This is SO true, and the MLC package from Amazon is hysterical.

[CaliGuy]

Gordie

Ugh .... the STD, almsot as bad a trigger for me as the MLC tri of letters.

Somewhere in my 20 something threads I shared my STD story, I will try to be brief and give you the small version.

BD was Sep13, she moved out Nov13. I get a call March 17th 2014, (yes St Pats day ... seems she would later cover all holidays with a MLC gift packaged for me.) ... she was crying and I was certain she came to her senses. I knew there was an OM, but since she could not have sex due to medical conditions I was not all that worried as my logic said no dude would put up with her crap without cashing in on sex and that was not in the cards. So through the tears and sobs she tells me she thinks she contracted an STD, I remember saying well thats impossible you would have to have .... OMFG ARE YOU KIDDING ME???!! ... turns out she was miraculously healed and had sex with OM .. I was furious on multiple levels.
I went to the appt with her as it was confirmed right there with me in the room, Herpes ... I had myself checked soon after but was not all that concerned as I had not had sex with her for 3 years ... signs of the MLC were there all along but I had no idea till I found this place.

Anyways ... yeah you have to get checked, not many stories of people here sharing that their MLCr actually did contract an STD which is why I am telling you mine actually did. I am thankful I dodged the bullet as that's just another issue you would have to deal with regardless if you end up reconciling or not.

[roist]

So she lied to you not to have sex with you all that time! I can see how that episode would have affected you so much. Thanks for sharing.

[Gordie]

Jounrnaling:

So w left yesterday for a weekend away. She didn’t tell me where she was going or with whom. Surprisingly, she called me right before she left to tell me things about the kids’ weekend activities that I already knew. I just listened and said ok to acknowledge. When I got home her car was still here so she did go away with someone in his or her car. And then around midnight she texted me her location which is several hours away and to say goodnight. I did not text back.

[bttrfly]

:'(

[SBJ]

Sorry my brother. You are definitely on my mind and in my prayers.

[leahsue]

I think it's great that you did not text back. I hope you won't AT ALL the whole weekend, unless it's a kid emergency. Do your best to let her see that where she is or who she is with is not your concern any longer.

Do that for YOU. I think you'll feel better once the weekend is past, about not responding to her at all. Nothing says I'm moving on like radio silence. (I know it's usually THEM that do that to us, but hey, this train runs both ways.)

(((((( Gordie ))))))

[AndrewP]

Gordie - If this follows the usual script, expect her to be extra nice to you when she gets back and try to do something nice.

It's up to you how/if to deal with that.

This s@cks big time. I remember when my own W did this. It was amazingly painful.

I hesitate to suggest this, but outside of here you may want to start keeping a journal of days and events where she dumped her familial responsibilities. I can be helpful when negotiating custody.

Stay strong. Your kids need you to be the sane and stable parent.

[Sotto]

Yuck - she's deep in the throes of this new infatuation from what you post. Though she does seem to have the odd pang of - oh I do have a husband and family - best confirm where I am and make sure the kids are sorted...

Without reading back Gordie, what's the status of your living arrangements just now? Are you and she still sharing the MBR at this point? If so, I would find it staggering that she would go away on a weekend like this and come back to share a bed with her husband. Yes D may be in process, but still.

This must be pretty full on for you, and you may want to consider taking steps to create a little more distance and protect yourself emotionally - nothing vengeful, but just to buy yourself a little space from her antics.

Big hugs to you this weekend (((Gordie)))

[Gordie]

SBJ:

2. If your MLC'er is like mine, she spends money either just to spend it, or trying to buy clothes that make her look 23 instead of 43. I used to have boxes piling in my garage from things she ordered. I don't anymore...hence the spending has gone down and my bank account is happier and healthier.

G: yes, one thing I am looking forward to post d.

SBJ:

4. You have done a great job over the last year, but she is in denial of what a true M should be. None of these people going thru MLC will be able to hold down a happy/successful relationship with anyone, but it is difficult because we have to see the ones we love do this crazy $#!^. Detach more, GAL, and remember that it is not your circus anymore.

G: that’s some hard earned wisdom there. It is really baffling seeing someone that your really know so well...do those things, say these things...

SBJ:

Let's all have a drink together tonight. At 8pm (CST) I will raise a bourbon to you my brother. Stay strong and remember that He is always with us thru the storms of life.

G: cheers!

[Gordie]

Brubeck:

Of course she wants you to meet OM. She wants to make this insanity feel normal for you, because it's normal for her. Either that, or she's trying to wind you up, to justify the D. Oh here I go again, trying to mind read the egg salad that is a MLCer's brain. She thinks it's serious because right now her life is being fulfilled with shallow, superficial needs - including the OM. Even if she gave him the whole "we've been S for months, we're just under the same roof" story, he's still getting involved with a M woman with 5 kids. What kind of baggage does this guy have to overlook those glaring facts?

G: you are spot on.

Brubeck:

The more I learned about OM, the less I cared. I still get FURIOUS at times, but it's because I realize I've been tossed aside for something far less. Good advice elsewhere... keep it business. Nothing else. Carry on and focus on the kids. I still have trouble taking my eyes of her sometimes - but if I focus on my kids, it's really rewarding. It's something I've learned about GALing, I've learned I was wasting energies devoting myself to activities just to kill time.

G: what does that last line mean?

Brubeck:

My STBXW signed off on our custody agreement. My L included a rule that neither parent can introduce a significant other to the kids for a full year. Food for thought.

G: your w had no issue with that? Why was that important to you?

Brubeck:

Remember, this is something we didn't ask for, and it's changing us in ways we may not want, but only temporarily. If we learn how to weather this storm, we will survive it, learn a few things about ourselves, and build a new life as a wiser person. The MLCer will carry the baggage of their La La Land years long after they've left the tunnel (if they do).

G: truth.

[Gordie]

Gordie

Ugh .... the STD, almsot as bad a trigger for me as the MLC tri of letters.

Somewhere in my 20 something threads I shared my STD story, I will try to be brief and give you the small version.

BD was Sep13, she moved out Nov13. I get a call March 17th 2014, (yes St Pats day ... seems she would later cover all holidays with a MLC gift packaged for me.) ... she was crying and I was certain she came to her senses. I knew there was an OM, but since she could not have sex due to medical conditions I was not all that worried as my logic said no dude would put up with her crap without cashing in on sex and that was not in the cards. So through the tears and sobs she tells me she thinks she contracted an STD, I remember saying well thats impossible you would have to have .... OMFG ARE YOU KIDDING ME???!! ... turns out she was miraculously healed and had sex with OM .. I was furious on multiple levels.
I went to the appt with her as it was confirmed right there with me in the room, Herpes ... I had myself checked soon after but was not all that concerned as I had not had sex with her for 3 years ... signs of the MLC were there all along but I had no idea till I found this place.

Anyways ... yeah you have to get checked, not many stories of people here sharing that their MLCr actually did contract an STD which is why I am telling you mine actually did. I am thankful I dodged the bullet as that's just another issue you would have to deal with regardless if you end up reconciling or not.

Theee years of lies...and then she got rewarded...unbelievable.

[Gordie]

I think it's great that you did not text back. I hope you won't AT ALL the whole weekend, unless it's a kid emergency. Do your best to let her see that where she is or who she is with is not your concern any longer.

Do that for YOU. I think you'll feel better once the weekend is past, about not responding to her at all. Nothing says I'm moving on like radio silence. (I know it's usually THEM that do that to us, but hey, this train runs both ways.)

(((((( Gordie ))))))

Thanks for the support on radio silence. It’s hard for me.

[Gordie]

Gordie - If this follows the usual script, expect her to be extra nice to you when she gets back and try to do something nice.

It's up to you how/if to deal with that.

This s@cks big time. I remember when my own W did this. It was amazingly painful.

I hesitate to suggest this, but outside of here you may want to start keeping a journal of days and events where she dumped her familial responsibilities. I can be helpful when negotiating custody.

Stay strong. Your kids need you to be the sane and stable parent.

Thanks for the warning. How should I deal with that? Plan is not to ask any questions of how was your weekend? Just keep my distance and be friendly but not friends.

[Gordie]

Yuck - she's deep in the throes of this new infatuation from what you post. Though she does seem to have the odd pang of - oh I do have a husband and family - best confirm where I am and make sure the kids are sorted...

Without reading back Gordie, what's the status of your living arrangements just now? Are you and she still sharing the MBR at this point? If so, I would find it staggering that she would go away on a weekend like this and come back to share a bed with her husband. Yes D may be in process, but still.

This must be pretty full on for you, and you may want to consider taking steps to create a little more distance and protect yourself emotionally - nothing vengeful, but just to buy yourself a little space from her antics.

Big hugs to you this weekend (((Gordie)))

We are under the same roof in separate bedrooms. I don’t distancing myself, for me. Yes, I’d love to save my m still but don’t think it’s going to happen before d and while she is with om2.

[job]

New Thread:

MLC W with a BF...negotiating our D #12