25yearsMLC 10 Later I FILE D part 7

[25yearsmlc]

25,

Earlier in the week, H texted me (in response to a text I sent him about upcoming tax deadline) about what a stressful week he was having, (having to go before the president and board of his company explaining why he's one million over budget on this move.... blah blah) -

So Friday night I get a random text from him that says "wow what a week-thanks for your support." Which I saw as a conversation opener from him.

And I chose not to respond. Which is TOTALLY unlike me. First of all, I had 5 of my best girlfriends here for a sleepover and was too busy GAL to respond, and second of all, I did not FEEL like responding. I'm just really feeling kind of over the whole thing right now.

But then I did the SAME THING YOU DID- started to feel like "Now I'm being rude."

RUDE????? RUDE?????? SERIOUSLY?????

When I just read your post, I thought- Wow, good for 25 for recognizing the ridiculousness in those thoughts!- then 5 seconds later saw my own forest in spite of the trees.

yes ^^- that's an unexpected byproduct of posting here.

Seeing the differences in many situations here, but also seeing

the universality of heartbreak, and the brutal pain of seeing the truth.

The truth In ourselves and in someone we deeply loved.

One more thought though.

I think both our thought processes say so VERY much about the kind of people you and I are, and who our Hs are.

Right?

I hear you.

For me, the idea that I was being rude - after a few minutes of reflection

struck me in 2 ways.

First, the good part - I am sensitive to others and that's a good thing. Very aware of how I sound to them, whether I'm responsive and intuitive to their needs.

Yay me.

The not so good part is how out of place my concern was.

FTR, Politeness and civility are not things I will ever regret. Civility in the midst of this ordeal, is a real goal of mine. Not just so h won't look back with his negatives fueled, in fact not b/c of him at all (or not a lot b/c of him.)

This^^ is For ME to know and for my kids to see. S31 has sent me the Rihanna song "B1tch Better Gimme My Money" as a mantra. In context it's hilarious.

But it's also a clear message from my kids. In their eyes h is the villain. In time, I hope they recover a relationship with him for all their sakes. I really mean that. (At least this minute!)

I would greatly regret spewing at him, (however justified it is).

But to actually wonder if I was being rude was just not healthy of me. AND worse - probably - is the subconscious desire on my part to engage with him.

As if there was some sort of opening. Hoping?? I had to really look at that and think it through to see how whacked out that was. It's the hopium talking.

[Valeska19]

Ah good old hopium. Powerful. That one.

Even if it was rude - the real question is... is there truth there?

If we only focus on the first - then we don't have to deal with the truth question. If we never ask the truth question, we never have to change.

It's an excuse..and for your H - that has seemed like the place where he continues to get caught up in. He has to focus on you - because if he truly focused on him, he would have to change...

... and that has been what overwhelms him. For a long time it seems.

[25yearsmlc]

Ah good old hopium. Powerful. That one.

Even if it was rude - the real question is... is there truth there?

which part? I don't believe it was "rude", (I don't think so, at least)
b/c his text did not really demand a response.

My T suggested my real fear is that h may use my non response as evidence that "see? I sent 25 a NICE message and she didn't even thank me...what a b1tch."

I have worried about this^^ for FAR TOO LONG. H was a real $h1t the past 2 years (I don't want to redo the whole marital history so I'm staying focussed on the more recent crap).

No question he betrayed me in more than one way, and in his mind (CAUTION: "Mind Reading alert!")

h has justified ALL his choices (or chooses not to look at a few choices he "could have done better...").

Pretending that there's no context to my silence, is me engaging in more gas lighting - isn't it?

However, then the risk of me spiraling into questions about "the meaning of it all", would also lead to my addiction to the question of WHY?

and I'm working very hard to break free of this^^. You of all people know I spent years on that unanswerable question. UGH...years I won't get back!

And the more preoccupied I am with h, or "why", the less I GAL.




If we only focus on the first - then we don't have to deal with the truth question. If we never ask the truth question, we never have to change.

It's an excuse..and for your H - that has seemed like the place where he continues to get caught up in.

He has to focus on you - because if he truly focused on him, he would have to change...

... and that has been what overwhelms him. For a long time it seems.

I imagine anyone facing the wreckage he created and wished to reverse, would feel overwhelmed. Where to start? My guess is that h could never grasp the enormity of the pain he's inflicted on the 4 people who loved him the most.

Some months back, h told d20 months that he "isn't good at repairing r's."

Oh.

At Retrovaille h opened up the last day. H showed tremendous remorse for the situation our family was in. It was a big deal to me then. The metaphor was a car accident, and he said the "money is all gone and all the passengers are on life support and might not make it." He broke down describing it. It was very moving.

And that^^^ insight of his kept me going for years. The idea that he really did "get it" and was sad, fearful of losing our family, and that he was invested in the marriage the same way I was.

But that^^ eventually was an illusion. An illusion I spent a ton of energy & emotional resources, maintaining.

Yes that ^^ is tragic.

But he drove the car off the cliff and a lot of people did get hurt. And he was warned many times that this choice was a dangerous one, not one to be made a second time with hope of all being well in the end. He was warned that it could lead to a place HE might not like.

Yet he kept driving, only occasionally looking in the mirror to reassure himself that the choices he was making were not disastrous... (and announcing to the world that he was in a great happy place.

No thanks to him, we are healing.

(Maybe partly because he's AWOL), we are healing.

I don't even say that^^ with anger.

more like resignation & acceptance - and hope for peace.

Okay I have to get back to the money numbers of the gross divorce crap (aka "GDC").

((( thank you V- )))

[OwnIt]

25--

It's hard for me to keep quiet on your situation, but I have nothing to offer you. I think your situation is the closest to my own, but we differ wildly in how we approach this.

I have profound and tremendous respect for you, but I see you giving him way too much headspace all the time. Answering is a game. So is not answering. N/C brings peace and adds to the mystery. Contact feels vulnerable, but it answers some of the questions (what is his demeanor, is this about the case/the money/a remarriage, does he miss me, how would it feel to talk to him, etc). There is no right answer. There is only how you feel about the approach you have taken and the ones you didn't. If only life were like a law school exam where you get the points for spotting the issues rather than how you answer the questions.

I continue to watch your situation, Sara's, and Fight's with a great deal of interest. These are the clearest examples of narcissists and I see a lot of similarities with each. Of course whatever we glean from one another doesn't necessarily help with our own situation. While there are patterns, they are still individuals as are we.

I just want you to know that I support you. 100%. In your good choices, and the ones I think are bad. I support your right to make these choices and to change your mind. I want nothing but peace and happiness and a cute guy in the supermarket for you.

[25yearsmlc]

25--

It's hard for me to keep quiet on your situation, but I have nothing to offer you. I think your situation is the closest to my own, but we differ wildly in how we approach this.

that is true^^^ as we obviously have factors in common. And when I read your reply below I did have a reaction.

Not a bad one, just a strong complicated one. More below

I have profound and tremendous respect for you, but I see you giving him way too much headspace all the time. Answering is a game. So is not answering. N/C brings peace and adds to the mystery.

Own, seriously? H and I have shared ONE text in a year. We have had a single short phone conversation about health insurance in January. He has not seen the kids in over a year.
That's^^^ as little contact as I've seen anywhere around here. And after a very long m.

I write out ALL of my thoughts here, and then I hope to show the reasoning process to remind myself and also to - maybe - to guide others in their own.

The entire internal conversation I had, was done & over in under 15 minutes. Took me more time to write it out.
Yes we do see others in our situation or similar ones,
and when we are outside of it, we see so much more clearly. (Leah mentioned as much and it resonates).




Contact feels vulnerable, but it answers some of the questions (what is his demeanor, is this about the case/the money/a remarriage, does he miss me, how would it feel to talk to him, etc). There is no right answer.

Contact is unproductive for me. What questions can I ask of him that would produce cogent honesty?

H & I are nearly a continent apart now. I don't give h or the OW much time in my head, never look at FB or ask about her, etc. No looking at h's FB, or old photos or whatever, and the kids either never look or they just don't ever mention it to me or my siblings.
the only thing that has set me back recently is this settlement I'm involved in now.
This is the last lap I think.

I have a few concerns h will blindside me or the kids about marrying OW or another OW (who knows?) and or that it could mean legal leverage for me in the settlement process, but otherwise not in my head.

I've only had 8 (?) months to process that there was an OW. Even that was not really taken in cognitively until maybe April when the medical dust began to settle for me.

I'm pretty amazed at how little attention I've given that, considering. and there are all the other changes happening at once.

I do not let myself go there.

As for what I can expect from h, I trust that he won't keep his word so I cannot sign anything that is not enforceable, which I said to my L. That's the only protective approach I know of at this point.

I no longer believe my behavior has much to do with his, at this point anyhow. It's about me, not him.

There is only how you feel about the approach you have taken and the ones you didn't.

Not sure it's the "only" thing. Not saying you are wrong, just that I don't yet buy this.

I care a lot about my children's views of the process. Maybe that's not advisable. I Don't want to make h a villain and me the hero,

but in all frankness,

I admit I care most about being above reproach in their eyes. There may be a time when I just know it inside, and don't spend energy on making sure they are okay.

I also want my kids not to worry about me, that they know I'll be fine no matter what. ("Mama won't live in your attic!")

If I understand your point, it's to remind me to reframe things in a way that gives me peace, and then not to worry about it any longer, correct? Okay, done.




If only life were like a law school exam where you get the points for spotting the issues rather than how you answer the questions.

Own, interesting comment^^. Hmm, what about this - I regret not spotting all the issues the first time I was here. I focussed exclusively on my own behavior and after much asking "WHY", I let go of that piece. And so,

Years later I am struck by how much I missed in h.


I continue to watch your situation, Sara's, and Fight's with a great deal of interest. These are the clearest examples of narcissists and I see a lot of similarities with each. Of course whatever we glean from one another doesn't necessarily help with our own situation. While there are patterns, they are still individuals as are we.


yes, I read elsewhere that we don't have to see social pathology to be m to someone we need to ditch. It does not have to all fit. And it doesn't. And that's okay.

Not necessary to understand it all and see, to me, this^^ is giving h my headspace.

Which i did the first time I was here.

My h has a lot of charm and my siblings confirm that we had something very good ate one time.
It used to be preferable for h to be at home, than work. Whatever his needs for accolades or more excitement, etc, I guess it grew. Not super important but

I just want you to know that I support you. 100%. In your good choices, and the ones I think are bad. I support your right to make these choices and to change your mind. I want nothing but peace and happiness and a cute guy in the supermarket for you.

Own, not sure what the choice is that you believe I made.

Re The "hopium of recon" - for ME - that was ego driven. (Or at least that I'm aware of.)

We all have egos, however bruised. I think all LBSers want to know that our spouse at some point, realizes they lost the great partners we are. That they did not see our true value - or they would not have chosen such a stupid path.


Even if I had a crystal ball and KNEW h would not put me through this again, (which is the dream of all LBSers when we first arrive,)

I'd still have too much to unsee and too much to unknow. Once upon a time that might have been about me and forgiveness, but this time it's about me not having amnesia.

Oh, speaking of dreams -

-I had one a few weeks back. In the dream, h and I are reconciled & close to each other. I'm driving him somewhere. I drop him off and drive away.

As I'm driving, I get overwhelmed with memories, and a ton of triggered emotions, and in the dream -

I realize "oh wow, THAT is the same h who did X, Y & Z to me. $h1t. I cannot do this." Metaphorically, I slap my forehead.

And in the dream I'm not angry. Just done.

[25yearsmlc]

i wish we had an edit button, if only for 10 minutes...


I continue to watch your situation, Sara's, and Fight's with a great deal of interest. These are the clearest examples of narcissists and I see a lot of similarities with each. Of course whatever we glean from one another doesn't necessarily help with our own situation. While there are patterns, they are still individuals as are we.


yes, I read elsewhere that we don't have to see social pathology to be m to someone we need to ditch. It does not have to all fit. And it doesn't. And that's okay.

Not necessary to understand it all and see, to me, this^^ is giving h my headspace.

Which i did the first time I was here.

My h has a lot of charm and my siblings confirm that we had something very good ate one time.
It used to be preferable for h to be at home, than work. When that changed is not important anymore as it is what it is, now.

I just want you to know that I support you. 100%. In your good choices, and the ones I think are bad. I support your right to make these choices and to change your mind. I want nothing but peace and happiness and a cute guy in the supermarket for you. [/quote]


Own, not sure what the choice is that you believe I made. (Recon is not on the table.)

Re The "hopium of recon" - for ME - that was ego driven.

(Or at least that I'm aware of.)

We all have egos, however bruised. I think all LBSers want to know that our spouse at some point, realizes they lost the great partners we are. That they did not see our true value - or they would not have chosen such a stupid path.


Even if I had a crystal ball and KNEW h would not put me through this again, (which is the dream of all LBSers when we first arrive,)

I'd still have too much to unsee and too much to unknow. Once upon a time that might have been about me and forgiveness, but this time it's about me not having amnesia.

Oh, speaking of dreams -

-I had one a few weeks back. In the dream, h and I are reconciled & close to each other. I'm driving him somewhere. I drop him off and drive away.

As I'm driving, I get overwhelmed with memories, and a ton of triggered emotions, and in the dream -

I realize "oh wow, THAT is the same h who did X, Y & Z to me. $h1t. I cannot do this." Metaphorically, I slap my forehead.

And in the dream I'm not angry. Just done. [/quote]

[OwnIt]

25, I was speaking more globally about choices.

I don't believe there are rights and wrongs. Only how we feel about ourselves in making them. Yes, I also think about my kids, but they do not want to talk about their father at all, so that process does not include discussion for us.

I didn't see anything that made me think you were hoping for reconciliation. Whether you are or not is a personal choice and not one that I have any judgment on.

By headspace I was referring to the fact that you seem to care a lot about how he might potentially view each of your decisions, whether active or passive. I don't care what mine thinks, only what he does in response.

[Valeska19]

25 - I wasn't suggesting you were being rude... I was saying that if H perceived it that way, he needed to ask the next question on if what's behind it is truthful. We often get caught up by HOW someone is saying something instead of focusing on WHAT they are actually saying.

BUT I do agree with your T on that you are a little fearful of how H would perceive you. Your M trained you that way and it's gonna take some time to retrain yourself otherwise.

Your M also seems to have trained you on worrying about your H more than yourself so I agree with OWN on the headspace issue.

Continue to journal if it helps your moral compass keep you on the path you want to be.

And if you are coming my way this holiday season.... please let me know!

[25yearsmlc]

25 - I wasn't suggesting you were being rude... I was saying that if H perceived it that way, he needed to ask the next question on if what's behind it is truthful.

In the past 10 years, the question of why someone might be upset or "Rude" with h has not been an issue h delved into, (that I'm aware of).

H became more resentful. Lots of cognitive dissonance going on.

I recall that H was frustrated with d20 for their feeling abandoned by h, (which was based on reality)

even after h "tried" to compensate with a few brief times together. Just Ridiculous.


We often get caught up by HOW someone is saying something instead of focusing on WHAT they are actually saying.

Amen!

H also got into the habit of turning a comment of mine into something quite different and or into the most extreme version possible. I'm very careful in word selection, so that drove me crazy.

H would hear what he "feared" and not what I said. (Like politicians who argue talking points over each other, and never even find common ground from which they could build).

But hey, telepathy does save time.


BUT I do agree with your T on that you are a little fearful of how H would perceive you. Your M trained you that way and it's gonna take some time to retrain yourself otherwise.

Yes ^^I'm working on this. My self awareness is getting pretty acute.

I have a lot of internal debates (which I've shared here, apparently too much )

but the debates resolve faster and my internal editing process is speeding up.

There will be a time when I'm triggered but will redirect so fast it'll be almost without it surfacing.

after 2/3 of my life spent loving that guy, it'll take some more time. I can't believe d20 is older than i was when I got engaged to h. Yikes.

I have a great T. One of those angels we hope we find when we need them most. Very grateful





Your M also seems to have trained you on worrying about your H more than yourself

YES though I balk at the term "train", (ego).

M to anyone with a demanding career (or new parenthood) forces you to shelve your needs for awhile. That's what adults/good partners do. Temporarily.

The question becomes when it's time to take your needs off the shelf to re-prioritize them.

& for me, the answer is "a long time ago." Better late than never. Now is all I have.



And if you are coming my way this holiday season.... please let me know!

Absolutely will do. I think I'll need to come sometime this winter. Sunlight!

[leahsue]

25,
Just wanted to say that I read (somewhere) that yesterday was H's birthday. I know it must have been a tough day for you.

IDK if you keep up with my thread any longer since I'm over on MLC forum, but I posted today, and rather than re-type it here for you, just wanted to say please read it, especially the 2nd quote. I thought of you so much when I read it, and again when I posted it.

I think you are so lost in real grief right now, and also in fear of the financial future, that you may be losing sight of the beautiful lady you have ALWAYS been. Just b/c H has issues and left, does NOT mean that the beautiful you has left the building.

(((((( 25 )))))))