24 Mths in..I gotta whole lot of living to do now

[Sotto]

Hi Irish (((hugs))) to you....

Like Bttrfly posted, I'm writing this post with a soft tone to an online friend I admire

I think it would be a good idea to work on two areas in your communications with your XW:

Drop the emotion from your replies and aim purely for 'pleasant & businessy' (I think your responses to her still sound pretty reactive....which I understand & goodness knows how well I would cope if I had to be in contact with XH.)

Let go of the need to keep telling her that she is 'wrong.' She decided what she did and is where she is. I agree that it is up to her and your girls if they want to reconnect at some point and doesn't need for you to stand in the middle - only not stand in the way....

All JMHO of course and I too ache for your girls - and for your XW in fact. She has made choices that have led to great losses for her and I don't think she has the tools and resources to get her life back on a healthier track at this point.

As you know, me and XH don't have any contact. But if we did, I would try and operate/interact in a way that (if he died or killed himself tomorrow) I wouldn't regret my own interactions with him.

Take care Irish and I hope you relax and enjoy the weekend :)xx

[OwnIt]

Irish,

When I saw your post I felt similarly to 25. Reading your response to her and 25's to you has prevented me from taking an action I would have regretted in response to two awful things my H did to me today.

I too have been in this 7 years. My H has also spoken of a time in the future when he will have a utopian relationship with my children when I am not in the picture.

As much I want to hurt this man, and I do, I can't hurt my children. There is a poster on another board I follow who bravely confessed that her child has not spoken to her in 3 years because of how she handled her husband's infidelity and departure. Please understand that I am in no way accusing you of that and think you are an exemplary dad. But, it gets me thinking about my own behavior and what there is to gain from venting, responding, whatever you want to call it. Even if I am not doing anything to the children that would jeopardize his relationship with them, what if I am doing something to him that keeps him away from that relationship and in turn harms my children.

Regardless of whether she deserved it or not, she does not deserve your energy, your passion, your heartache, your supply, whatever one can call it. This woman is mentally ill. No sane mother would do as she has done. Men do this stuff every day. Women do not. Not in the same numbers.

I hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive her, to step out of the middle as 25 suggests, and to let her deal with the fallout from her own choices. There are too many proms, dates, weddings, graduations, breakups, celebrations, and disappointments that require your attention for your beautiful girls. Don't give that energy to her. If they are 30 when it happens, they will better be able to navigate their feelings and process the choices she made and did not make, and better positioned to evaluate the lives that you created for them instead.

[rd500]

Hi Irish, firstly im team irish all day long as is every other person ive ever seen posting on your thread.

I will go slightly further and saw i watch with awe in the way you cope bring up 2 girls who once knew a happy home. Im not saying for one second single parents home aren't happy , your girls had tremendous trauma when their mum left, i was in that postion but thankfully it was my dad and not my sainted mum.

Having made my position very clear ( i hope ) your message to EXW was attacking her and while part of me applauds you, part of me thinks you are still attached. In my sitch i answer every message very briefly and move on with my day. Am i tempted to let her have both barrells from time to time , of course but heres a secret between me and you. How much more does it hurt her that i wont engage, my belief is lots. So passive aggressive maybe but i still dont give it a thought once message is gone.

Your EXW is the victim ( in her mind ) and nothing will shift her mindset until she ( if ever ) accepts otherwise.

So , please accept this post in the manner its intended, EXW doesnt deserve to be in your Ds lives right now. Certainly not in the mindset she is in.

Irish is one of the strongest members ( imho ) on this board ( i would have to include Sotto ), you never moan or feel sorry for yourself even though it must happen that you feel tbat way sometimes. Dont get caught up in her mindset, 25 has his theorys about her thoughts and feelings and i would agree. Unless shes a psycho these thoughts must cross her mind occasionally.

You lead by way of your posts, you show alot of humility and caring so it understandable that sometimes you react.

Again Irish , just my humble opinion but from your view point its hard to see the wood from the trees.

How things with the GF ???

Take care brother, go team irish !!!!!!!!

[bttrfly]

Hi Irish,
so you got your Irish up with eew ... who can blame you? God knows the MLCr would try the patience of a saint.

I cannot point fingers -- anyone remember my reaction to finding out I was expected to pay half of exh's secret vacation to Hawaii, taken on our 21st anniversary? I acutely remember another time when I went absolutely ballistic on exh, around that same time frame. Truth darts are not pretty and in my case the darts flew fast, furious and hit with deadly accuracy. I remember darling Lou being aghast and asking me why I wasn't taking Job's good advice - well, in that case Job's advice was posted after exh and my conversation, and after months of not sleeping and stress I just snapped. I'm not proud of it, but at the same time even the tiniest kitten has claws. An Italian woman pushed to the brink isn't a pretty sight.

My point is, patience can only carry us so far. Some days it's just too bad for them if they end up hearing something they don't like from us LBS. You cannot keep poking the bear with a stick and not expect to get whacked with it every so often.

I know the girls were in counseling. Are they still? Can you have a conversation with a medical professional about their DNA concerns? Maybe there's someone who can talk with them and assure them? If it is a hormonal issue, as long as they are monitored they can get through it just fine. Modern medicine is an amazing thing. Yes, that's your herbal friend talking, and I believe it too.

I thought of something else re: the girls - this is an opportunity to teach them a really invaluable lesson, that of the importance of self-care. Self-care means that even if you have kids, a husband and a career, you take the time to make sure you are rested, well fed, have exercise, things that nourish your soul too, and most especially you make sure you have regular doctor visits and mind your health so you can be available to live your life and care for your loved ones. Maybe that will help them feel more in control?

I can't imagine what those sweet children are going through, and I especially know that it must be torture for you not to be able to fix this for them, calm their fears, help them feel safe again. As bad as it is for us, the worst is that we cannot protect our children from this.

And you are at this 24x7, you don't get a break - not that you want one - but still, you have had your own grief to deal with as the LBS, and on top of it, having to be strong for the girls. At least I get a reprieve from having to put on the happy face - when son is with exh I can scream, cry, rant, rave or just be the wife he left behind rather than having to put that aside to be the strong mother taking care of her son and pets, trying to keep it together so it doesn't affect son's relationship with exh unduly.

I get that your Irish temper kicked in and you'd just had enough of the BS. You have a right to your opinion and you have a right to share it with eew. Hey - just because someone says they're doing the best they can doesn't necessarily mean it's a good job. As 25 says, yes, the girls and eew's relationship is between them. But I also see what you're saying, that you can have an opinion of her parenting and you let her know what that was. Was it diplomatic? No. Was it "DB" ? No. But let's face it, at this point, you've said you're done and I get it.

As for going to the services. I truly feel that's the girls call, and given their reasoning, it makes sense. Heck my son didn't go to auntie's memorial service. I was upset, but he told me why and how he felt about it and I understood his perspective and accepted it. His perspective is that services are for those left behind. He did not know the people who were going to be there, hadn't seen them since he was 9 or 10. He wanted to remember her in his own way. Did I agree? No. Did I accept? Yes.

Anyway, it's done, and that's that. You've said your piece, she now knows how you feel about her life choices vis a vis her relationship with the girls. I think the most constructive thing you can do now is shrug off the residual ickiness we all feel after encounters of this kind and re-focus on your GAL and how best to help the girls cope. I know you're doing just that. sending hugs {{{{{{Irish}}}}}}} Let's not forget that you too were hurt by this, not just as a parent but also as a partner who was left. xoxoxo take care of yourself here also Irish. Don't let yourself and your own pain get pushed aside to take care of the girls. You have a lot to hold, my friend. xoxoxo

[peacetoday]

Hi

I have found that most of my reactions toward XH or anyone/anything else are usually from some unresolved issues in me:

fear
abandonment
grief and loss
unresolved childhood issues and anger
self esteem issues
refusing to accept something as it is

so reaction isn't a bad thing, its a lesson for me-a signal usually that Im not accepting something and I can sometimes have this come up a bit-

Usually after I react, if I can settle down and look within to see if something in me needs to be worked through, I can gain insight and make changes

I can make apologies if needed or be aware of future interactions, so I can change my reactions
awareness is key- reacting with integrity is important to me

current issues and problems in my life need to be worked thru to get to acceptance
and denial to acceptance is a long sometimes very bumpy road

I fight, cry and rage and finally let go(maybe)

sometimes I have to do the process many times over several years-depending on the issue to really get to Acceptance

Acceptance is a place where I no longer fight or fear the issue,
I embrace it, I trust it is for the best..I trust God and the process of life-I truly let go of any control


Accepting Life, people and places exactly as they are-

sometimes for me, it requires time journaling, therapy ,reading, talking, tears-
not easy, but for me it works because when I get to the other side I see things different
and the more I can change my perception to see the good even in what seems Bad-Im making progress-Its Gods world not mine


If I skip through, I will not really get there. and the unresolved issue with all its pain will appear again and again

This is my process..Im not sure any of this applies for you, but please take any information that may be helpful and leave the rest

the best,
Peace

[Wonka]

Hi Irish,

I hope today is a bit better for you and the girls.

After reading of the latest developments in your sitch, I had this strong, compelling pull to post to you after reading your comments.

I have to message you by law to advise you that I am out of the country with them . you have 2 options.

1- block my emails or send them to spam. I don't care. I just need proof i sent them, no proof needed that you read them. You can't prevent me from going or them. It is only to advise you.

2- Simply reply thanks.

I don't accept your plan of waiting until they are 30 and maybe by then they will reach out. The girls deserve more from you. They won't accept anything less. Have a good day

Get your head out of your a$$ and start being the mom you once were. Not for me but for them.

Ouch.

I see a man who is still very deeply wounded by your XW's choices. Very much so. You lash out. You try to put her in her place by throwing both subtle and not so subtle digs her way as a reminder to her that she's a worthless human being.

Helpful? Absolutely not.

I have seen your growth here since finding you as a newly minted newbie over in the Newcomers forum and sending you to the MLC forum. You are a person who is compassionate and exhibits a strong sense of humility. That is who you really are at the core....you've lost your center. It's time to get back to that center...that silent and strong Irish.

Your XW is a very lost person. A lost soul who is really hurting too. She's recently lost her father and had to bury him. Wow. That's a lot to take on in addition to carrying the deep seated guilt of abandoning the girls.

Let me tell you a story here in the hopes you will shift your thinking, attitude, and approach to your XW.

I recently lost my stepmother after a long health battle over the summer and she recently went Home in June. This journey has given me some incredible insights after reflecting on the choices she and my family made many, many decades ago which still reverberates to this day. If anything, I've learned some really valuable lessons on forgiveness throughout this really rough journey.

I am now 50 years old. Finally, I understand in a very deep and meaningful way the true meaning of forgiveness. It took me to losing my parents and Ms. Wonka to be a walking reflection of forgiveness.

Here's the story...it's a long one. Don't say that I didn't warn ya, my friend.

[Wonka]

the voice of Sophia Picture this....

It was 1978...on a Christmas morning. I came bouncing down the stairs in my grandparents' house to the living room and see my mother (stepmother) looking morose in her Lazy-A-Boy chair. I asked her what was the matter and she swiveled in her chair to face me, "Wonka, we are getting a divorce."

My entire safe, little world crumbled at that very precise moment. (and that's what brought up my MLC to the surface years and years on....it's all in my MLC threads)

Oh and wait...there's more.

My grandfather, her father, was VERY angry at the pain my father caused his own daughter with his stupid infidelity. Being the old school Marine that he was, my grandfather forbidden her from having any contact with my father or she would be disowned by the family. One day, my uncle (her baby brother who was away at college) somehow found out that she and my father were in contact. My uncle went over to my father's house and left a nasty note under the door (I've never seen the contents of the note). Guess what happened? Yup. My father retaliated by not allowing me to see my mother (and by extension her family as well).

I was 11 years old. I had no voice in this at all. I was a mere child. I met them all when I was 18 months old and they married when I was 3. Talk about a deep wound that's never truly healed.

There was zero contact with my mother for years. Until one day I got into a very ugly fight with my father. I lost it and called my mother. She came right over the house and we sat on the couch in the living room looking at each other with wonder. Then we looked up as my father had come home and he was sooo stunned that he stopped cold in his tracks when he saw the two of us sitting together. I was aged 15 at the time.

Slowly and surely my parents found a way back together. No, no...don't bust out the champagne. I am sorry to say, it wasn't a fairytale reconciliation. It was all deep underground and no one knew. Except me. I was the only one who knew and they kept separate homes. Still not reunited with my mother's family. Over the years, I heard about the births of my cousins and their growing up years. Also heard about my grandparents'travels and other family stories that I was not part of at all despite being their first and eldest granddaughter.

Then my grandfather died. I didn't go to his funeral. Instead they had a funeral arrangement of fishing pole flowers/pot(his passion) with the granddaughters' names...mine was included.

My mother lived a life full of fear. Fear of being found out about their underground relationship and of being disowned by her family. What a charmed life, right?

Not long after Ms. Wonka left me, I told my mother that I wanted to see my grandmother. Oh boy!!! I saw raw, primal fear creep into my mother's eyes. That fear was that of Mama Bear's protective instincts and she absolutely did not want to see me get hurt at all. By that time, I was a grown woman and I wanted very much to see my grandmother who I absolutely adored (and still do). I calmly and quietly said, "Mom, it is not your call. I want to see her."

I saw my grandmother for the first time in years and YEARS. I was over 37 years old. THIRTY SEVEN! The last time I saw her was aged 11. Whew. Yep. Can you imagine?

There's more....told ya, it's a whopper of a story!

[Wonka]

Then imagine having to meet with the cousins that my uncle had with his marriage to his college sweetheart. Get this. They NEVER knew I existed at all. Because my name was practically erased from their lives. Imagine when I came back into my grandmother's life. Of course, my uncle had to sit down with his daughters and tell them about their older cousin.

Talk about a real mind f*ck! Yep. I have this very clear-eyed recall of the very first day we all met for the first time. I was a curiosity to them. Like the Easter Bunny had taken on a body of flesh. Then over the next few years, I saw resentment take a hold in their souls. Even to this day, I do see flashes of resentment at family gatherings. It is their hoe to take care of...not my fault that there was such a dramatic fallout all those years ago that had long-term consequences.

And my parents? They didn't make it to the end. How could they with that dark, familial cloud hanging over them??!!

When my mother died, I saw a change in my uncle. I saw a deep understanding in my uncle's eyes and I also saw regret in those eyes too. We've never spoken about all of those events that took place...too painful.

When the family priest came over the house to plan for the service(I wasn't there for I might have been at work), he asked my family, "Was she (mother) ever happy?" Know what my uncle told him in front of my grandmother and my aunts, "Yeah, she was at her happiest when she was married to Bob."(names not real) That's absolutely true. My mother never remarried nor ever dated anyone.

My mother lived with fear ever since my parents' divorced. She was so deeply wounded that she completely shut down and did not let anyone in...even me or her family. She was very remote and unreachable. Over the years, she took on a self-protective mechanism.

The real tragedy? Her heart became so hardened that she really didn't have much compassion for others. She became a very negative person whose energy pulled down people.

Don't become that bitter person, Irish.

Stop judging your XW. She is a very lost soul. Don't rob your daughters of their mother. It is NOT up to you to decide this or that for your daughters. I get that you are very protective of your girls.

BUT....

Don't take any actions, words, or deeds that are damaging toward their mother either.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What are you doing to do from THIS moment and on, Irish?

What kind of man do you want to be, Irish?

What kind of lessons do you want to pass on to your girls, Irish?

What kind of example do you want to set for yourself and the girls, Irish?

[Wonka]

All of that....^^^^^...was all because of this:

adults doing really stupid stuff!!!

[mirage]

Irish,

I understand the analysis(constructive criticism) done by other posters in this forum of the handling of your EXW. I think we all mean well here, especially here! This is your life, in my book you have earned the right to say certain things. I did not see you being mean, I saw you being a human being. None of us completely extinguishes the ghost from our lives. We do the best we can.

I'm not perfect with the handling of my EXW. None of us are. I still throw a truth dart out now and then expecially if I am in a fiesty mood. Fiestyness makes me feel alive as this is a journey to be lived and not on the sidelines.

We, who can stand on our own two feet, be responsible for who we are and be right with ourselves is an incredible journey in and of itself.

Your total body of work with your girls, your life and the hand you were dealt is truly commendable.

Keep living the journey.

Mirage