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#2763030 09/24/17 08:49 AM
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Per Cadet I'm starting a new thread

Previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2759223&page=1

I'm well into DR and I have my written goals! I've started my solutions journal and will start posting results.

I also started reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People". I'm already seeing results as I just had a nice exchange with a member of the hotel staff!

So I'm trying to validation thing:

WW: I know you love me...but the tense, bullying, controlling, manipulative behavior is unbearable.
Me: Some of my behaviors have been manipulative & controlling and I can see how it would feel that way
Me: You know I didn’t realize you thought I was a bully or that you felt I was bullying you
WW: There are a lot of things you don't realize that you do
Me: I can see that you are really bothered by some of those things I also see this is important to you and I’d really like to discuss it with you either in Couples Counseling or when your schedule is less hectic
WW: It is very important

I know I probably could've shortened some of my responses or the whole exchange.

In MC WW said "I don't know if we can reconcile". I didn't respond as the session was wrapping up but it didn't sadden me or feel like a punch in the gut. That thought seems normal for a WW at this stage?

One thing that stands out to me after reading DR is the whole NC unless necessary. In the back of my mind I always viewed it as punitive so I'd get upset if she didn't initiate any text exchanges after a few days. After reading DR, I now realize that NC is more about taking pressure off of them by not pursuing.


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Originally Posted By: Raysd6

I'm well into DR and I have my written goals! I've started my solutions journal and will start posting results.


Great! Not many people discuss this part of DR but it is a big step in moving forward.

Quote:
So I'm trying to validation thing:
WW: I know you love me...but the tense, bullying, controlling, manipulative behavior is unbearable.
Me: Some of my behaviors have been manipulative & controlling and I can see how it would feel that way
Me: You know I didn’t realize you thought I was a bully or that you felt I was bullying you
WW: There are a lot of things you don't realize that you do
Me: I can see that you are really bothered by some of those things I also see this is important to you and I’d really like to discuss it with you either in Couples Counseling or when your schedule is less hectic
WW: It is very important


OK that's pretty good. Just keep in mind validation is about seeking to understand her feelings, and validating those feelings. Your responses sound a little too much like you're accepting guilt when they could have been directed more towards understanding her feelings. I hope that makes sense. For example, instead of saying "You know I didn’t realize you thought I was a bully or that you felt I was bullying you" you could have said something like "it sounds like that was very frustrating for you, is that how you felt, frustrated?" You're trying to pinpoint her feelings and get her to share them. When she does, you validate them "yes I can understand why you felt frustrated about that."

Quote:
In MC WW said "I don't know if we can reconcile". I didn't respond as the session was wrapping up but it didn't sadden me or feel like a punch in the gut. That thought seems normal for a WW at this stage?


Yes, very typical. "Script" as Cadet would say. That's how she feels right now, it can change later but for now expect to hear a lot of that kind of language.

Quote:
One thing that stands out to me after reading DR is the whole NC unless necessary. In the back of my mind I always viewed it as punitive so I'd get upset if she didn't initiate any text exchanges after a few days. After reading DR, I now realize that NC is more about taking pressure off of them by not pursuing.


Right. It just means don't initiate contact. If she contacts you it's OK to respond, but don't try to convert that into long conversations. She doesn't want that right now.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Your responses sound a little too much like you're accepting guilt when they could have been directed more towards understanding her feelings. I hope that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense Another!

As always, thanks for the input!!


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In one week I've gone from:

WW: What's the wifi password
Me: I'm not sure I appreciate your tone
WW: There are things I don't appreciate about you either
Me: Then this conversation is over

To:
WW: Can you send me xxxx's contact info?


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That's a good welcome change! good on you for enforcing your boundary.


No one is coming to save you!

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Journaling

Been trying to reestablish family dinner at least once a week on Sundays. Invited WW. Initially she said "no I have a ton of work to do". Then Sunday afternoon WW asked if I wanted to meet at a local brewery for a beer and games.

Had a relatively nice time though she doesn't seem or look happy.

Highlights from the conversation:

WW: You look thin
WW: You should take your reading glasses out of the front of shirt
WW: The blue sheets you bought don't really match anything in our room

Me: You look sad
WW: I've been happier

I was trying to get her to talk in terms of her interests:

Me: I know you like impressionist, what are some of other favorite styles of art
WW: Abstract
Me: Oh who are some abstract artists that you like
WW: I don't know
Me: Kadinsky? Was he abstract. How about Peter Max, I remember you had a Peter Max watch
WW: Can you stop asking me about what art I like

Asked WW today about the contents of a smudging package we received.

WW: Can you just leave it
Me: What do you mean just leave it?
WW: I'll do it

I then went Dale Carnegie Principle #9 "Be sympathetic with the other persons ideas and desires" on her.

WW: Oh...it's going to get rid of the negative energy. Hopefully

GAL activities: Guitar class every Saturday, Lunch with Mom after guitar class, Softball Sunday mornings, Going to start CODA next week, running at least 3x a week, bought a pull-up bar so I'm doing daily pull-ups, study for certification(try and do it at a local Starbucks to get out in public), Incorporating "How to Win Friends & Influence People" in my daily interactions, and spending time with my daughters as much as teenagers will allow.

Detachment seems to be getting easier. Some days I want reconciliation and some days I wonder do I really want to spend the rest of my life looking over my shoulder?

Thanks for listening!!


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Journaling:

How to get a free high end designer shirt

At the last minute I helped WW work a festival Sunday…planned on just dropping off DD15 and leaving. DD15 didn’t want to stay so WW asked if I wouldn’t mind staying to help. I said yes.

WW: If you stay I ‘m going to have to buy you a new shirt
Me: Ok

So a few minutes later WW returns with a nice high end designer short sleeve shirt!

Overall it was a nice day and we had a nice time together. I remained calm and confident engaging customers more than I did in the past. Didn’t talk R at all…held my tongue when she referred to me by my first name rather than “my Husband”. But towards the end two people were looking at our merchandise and the male asked “Are you two married”. In a delayed response we both said yes.

Afterwards I texted:

Me: I had a nice time today
WW: Thanks…it was a nice day

I consider the day a minor victory because earlier in the week WW said she was uncomfortable around me.

Also had this text exchange…pursuing I know…need to balance distance with gauging where her mind is:

Me: Yes or no do you still want Divorce?
WW: I don’t know
WW: I can’t make that decision right now

I may need to reclassify WW as MLC


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Originally Posted By: Raysd6

Also had this text exchange…pursuing I know…need to balance distance with gauging where her mind is

Why do you need to do this at all?

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Why would you ask her that question? I assume your goal was for her to say


"No, I want to recommit to our marriage and rebuild it, now that we had a few hours without fighting"??

Looking back, can you see how unrealistic it was? Can you see how it might set you back? Particularly unrealistic was the "yes/no" demand.


The 37 "Rules" Sandi assembled around here, are "not rules, so much as guidelines" based on MWD's books and approach. And not all apply to everyone's situation.

Here are a few of the ones that do apply, and must be applied in your situationL



1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off.
-

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

-
12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.-
-
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17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
-

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.

--

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

Hope this helps


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Why would you ask her that question? I assume your goal was for her to say

"No, I want to recommit to our marriage and rebuild it, now that we had a few hours without fighting"??


No, actually an emphatic "Yes" is what I expected to hear.

WW seems to be softening...Labor Day weekend it was "it's not healthy for us to stay together" to "do you want to meet at xxx". From "I don't feel comfortable around you" to spending the day together in less than 4 days timespan.

I get the no pursuit so I definitely need to back off!

I will say thanks to you 25, I really started to notice results the minute I backed off the "truth darts" and stopped being a popular nickname for Richard to WW. I have learned to STFU(like when she didn't refer to me as her husband Sunday) and take stock of the little changes that I've noticed. Those changes are noted in my DR solutions journal.

Thanks for the 2x4's all!

Progress not perfection!


M50 WW50
T27 M23
D17
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EA#1 3/2010
BD 5/2/2017

Trying to make sense out of crazymaking
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