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I think your wife is taking advantage of you. She wants out so she must make do with her money. The day she left you she lost the right to ask for you to bail her out financially. Other than what you already contribute you shldnt do anything more.even if she wants groceries just or cash just politely tell her you don't have. She has to learn to manage her expenses


M 11 Dated for 4 years before then
Me 35 H 39
D 10
BD Feb 2016
A 2015 Dec
I was never in a R with the OM. Had a one night stand & I stopped contact immediately
I confessed the A to H and we went for MC
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AC? I'm 25 miles from there. Sadly can go this weekend. Enjoy


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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Chris73 Offline OP
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Next time Rick! I try to go once a quarter. I don't gamble much. Just like to sit by the pool and chill. But I may hit the poker tables on Sunday night if I can find one cheap enough wink


M46 W48
M11 T14
S11 D8
BD: 2016/05/27
In-home separation: 2016/11/23
Nesting: 2017/06/11
W moves out: 2018/01/07
W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12
I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
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Originally Posted By: BluWave


So yes, I am suggesting that you start being more of a d-ck to your wife. (you and Parkema/Mark). She is betraying you in the worst way and so it confuses her (and turns her off) that you continue to be so nice. Start pretending that you are that guy that doesn't want a lying, cheating, crying, selfish, manipulating W. Because I promise you, your W, wants that guy.

Blu



Great post Blu and while I agree with the quoted paragraph, how does that look in practical terms? If a WW has an A and separates because her emotional and/or intimacy needs weren't being met, how's being a d--k now going to bring those connections back for her to want to think of R? Let's say she has an OM who presently meets those and other needs; why would she want to be back with you if you're a d--k?

TBH I've noticed a lot of dichotomy in the principles and advice throughout different threads, e.g.

- be a d--k yet treat her like a neighbor/coworker?
- grow b@lls/don't be doormat yet don't argue and avoid any type of negative interaction
- detach yet validate her feelings?
- give her time and space yet try to make the A as difficult as possible?
- similar ones I can't think of right now

Am I the only one who struggles to reconcile these strategies? If a WW is resentful, rebellious and doesn't currently give a flying f--k about her LBS or his feelings, any attempt to be a d--k would naturally create even more resentment (maybe even borderline hate) towards LBS, wouldn't it? I'm asking because my personality would want to be what Blu is suggesting but I wouldn't be surprised if that is exactly what my WW wants me to be so that she can justify her wayward actions and legitimize the OM with her family who are all against him right now and even possibly introduce him to D11 b/c daddy is mean. My IC is also suggesting a more mild approach to let the A implode rather than striking a match in the gas chamber by being a d--k and harda$$. And yet Blu is suggesting that this behavior will turn the WW off even more. I'M SO CONFUSED!!!


Me47 W38 D11
M 12yrs
1st BD 3/16
2nd BD 12/16
Confirm PA 1/17 (going on for at least 1 yr, maybe longer)
Separated 2/17
D No talk
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Painful,

If one of your friends came to you and told you that his wife was having an affair, what would you tell him? You'd probably tell him that he shouldn't put up with that behavior from his wife and that he should toss her out and move on. The problem with many of us nice guys is that we have the opposite reaction; we beg and plead and try to do everything possible that we believe will save the marriage. Unfortunately, what saves the marriage is exactly opposite of that inclination to be the perfect husband and showing all of our love and affection. You have to show the spouse that you're just fine without them; show the spouse you're ready to move on (and you need to sincerely believe that).

So, I think "being a d-ck" is bit of a misnomer. It's more along the lines of showing via actions that you're not going to put up with the cheating sh*t and you're moving on to greener pastures without having a third party in your marriage.

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The hard part is to make your W feel that way without filing for D yourself. At the end of the day GAL, detach, whatever your still married.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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Chris73 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Painful
Am I the only one who struggles to reconcile these strategies?

Painful, I have a lot of threads on here and if you take the time to read through them all...

not that I would blame you if you didn't wink

...you'll see that I have been having problems reconciling all of this too.

The advice from the vets on this forum will be a little different from the advice that comes from the DB coaches. But since the DB coaches don't post here, their advice is communicated here by their clients, which understandably, is sometimes obscured or skewed.

One of the problems with my sitch is that I haven't been consistent.

First, I made the rookie mistakes of begging, pleading, crying, bargaining, etc. That turned her off.

Then I tried a tough love approach but I didn't like the way it made me feel and my W, who's major criticism was that I was self-centered and controlling, really only saw it as more of the same.

So then I went in the other direction and tried to reconnect with her by putting the problems aside, being extra nice, and inviting her to do things with me. But this didn't work either. My W viewed this behavior as underhanded and (again) controlling.

Then things got worse between us and I started to become very angry. The frequency of our arguments increased and although she's way more hot-headed than I am, I said my fair share of mean and nasty things.

Now it seems like things have settled down. And this is mainly because I'm not doing much of anything to win her back. Yes, I did say something to her about calling off the divorce yesterday (see a few posts back), but for the most part, we just treat each other as business partners.

In the beginning, I think I failed to understand that whatever course of action I chose to follow after the bomb drop was really supposed to be for me to help myself overcome the situation. I spent a lot of time trying to fix/save the marriage and not enough time GAL'ing. So when things got worse in the relationship I wasn't any stronger than when it started.

Looking back now, I think my W made up her mind a long time ago. I can pinpoint this to sometime around Nov/Dec of 2015 when she initiated contact with an old BF and started an EA/PA with him in the beginning of 2016 that lasted for 5 months. After that I think she was just going through the motions of working on the marriage while at the same time trying to become more and more comfortable with leaving for good.

What most of us LBS don't understand is that when the BD comes, the WS has had a LOT of time to think about the situation. Meanwhile, we're dealing with it fresh. I think the people who succeed in DB'ing are the ones who go into self-preservation immediately after BD. This isn't to say that they have more success in saving their marriage. But they are in a better place regardless of whether the marriage recovers or if things get worse.

I'm rambling...


M46 W48
M11 T14
S11 D8
BD: 2016/05/27
In-home separation: 2016/11/23
Nesting: 2017/06/11
W moves out: 2018/01/07
W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12
I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
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Originally Posted By: doodler
Painful,

If one of your friends came to you and told you that his wife was having an affair, what would you tell him? You'd probably tell him that he shouldn't put up with that behavior from his wife and that he should toss her out and move on. The problem with many of us nice guys is that we have the opposite reaction; we beg and plead and try to do everything possible that we believe will save the marriage. Unfortunately, what saves the marriage is exactly opposite of that inclination to be the perfect husband and showing all of our love and affection. You have to show the spouse that you're just fine without them; show the spouse you're ready to move on (and you need to sincerely believe that).

So, I think "being a d-ck" is bit of a misnomer. It's more along the lines of showing via actions that you're not going to put up with the cheating sh*t and you're moving on to greener pastures without having a third party in your marriage.


You're absolutely correct - that is what I always thought I'd tell anyone with a cheating WW UNTIL it happened to me; I think it's the case for most of us. I had (and still have) my guy friends tell me exactly those words but I can bet $$$millions that any one of them would sing a totally opposite tune in a second and would beg and plead with their WW like all of us if it happened to them. I now truly believe that all of that "tough" talk is posturing and complete misunderstanding of what it feels like to face losing a family. On top of that just the thought of some d--khead idiot OM possibly being involved in raising your kids is simply terrifying.

Maybe Blu can clarify what she means by being a d--k. If it is simply not putting up with the wayward ways, that's one thing. That's where I am at presently - distant yet very civil. But it feels insufficient. The way I'm reading Blu's statement though is that she means a tougher approach, and that's where I'm struggling to find the middle ground just like the other members she mentioned in her post.


Me47 W38 D11
M 12yrs
1st BD 3/16
2nd BD 12/16
Confirm PA 1/17 (going on for at least 1 yr, maybe longer)
Separated 2/17
D No talk
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Jos-9, I'll check out your thread and respond there. The money/support factor is tough because of course you want your W & kids to have what they need. You also don't want to be taken advantage of. Usually best in these sitches to look at it very objectively, all emotions aside, and proceed with how the law (or your L) says you should. And no, none of this is easy to figure out!

Chris, I am so glad you have some great GAL planned! Allow yourself to put all thoughts of her aside and enjoy your time! Don't respond to anything unless there is a real emergency with the kids. You deserve to be your own independent person and have fun!

Pain, you bring up some great points! And I agree that d-ck was not the best word choice. I picked it because it seems the opposite of being a MNG, and some of these guys need to turn the nice off because it is just making them appear like a doormat! Reading here for several years now, I have learned a thing or two--especially from Sandi--and these WWs really are master manipulators! If they see a strong man with firm boundaries in front of them, they will learn to respect him, and they will more likely second guess themselves in time. Especially when they realize that he will not wait and be plan B.

Let me try and clarify the best I know how:

- be a d--k yet treat her like a neighbor/coworker?

What if I told the extreme MNGs to be more d-ckish than sweet in their demeanor? I like the neighbor/coworker analogy, but lets add to that some indifference to boot. How do you do that? Minimize contact, don't try and be too friendly in conversation, don't show interest in what she is doing or ask questions, be pleasant but not friendly, don't share what you are doing or try to proove you are busy/GAL, exit communication first. Basically follow the 37 rules. Example: you know that person in your life, maybe in middle school, that had a giant crush on you, and you didn't like them at all, but you could just feel that they were trying too hard, or waiting around, or even pretending to not like you so you would notice? Stop being THAT guy! Nobody wants THAT guy! This is less about being a d-ck or a neighbor and more about being a strong, confident man that knows he deserves a woman that respects him and values him, and he will not settle for anything less. So until she shows herself as THAT woman, he has no interest in being friends, doing favors, or waiting for her.

- grow b@lls/don't be doormat yet don't argue and avoid any type of negative interaction


I am not sure who said to not argue? I mean no one would suggest being confrontational or starting an argument, sure. However if she comes at you with all the drama and/or negatively, you can listen, validate, not engage, respectfully stand your ground, and then disengage/exit. Trying to be agreeable (when you don't agree) in hopes that she will come back around or like you more, does not work and is doormat behavior. I think you can be a strong and confident man with b@lls an do that effectively, so I am not sure that are really an opposition.

- detach yet validate her feelings?


I don't see these as opposing either. Detachment is the ultimate goal for all of us here. There is great info on detachment all over this site. The idea is that we all need to break codependency with our S, to no longer let their words or actions control us, and to live/act for ourselves and to not "win" them back. Validation is an entirely different topic. There is also loads of info all over this site. Validation is something that we can all improve on and in all of our Rs, not just with our S. I think good validation technique is really listening to another person, accepting that their position is real for them, and then acknowledging back that you hear and accept what they say. (not to be confused with agreeing with them or being a doormat) My H is a master validator and I swear I cannot even argue with the man sometimes!

- give her time and space yet try to make the A as difficult as possible?

Yes to the time and space. There is always more time. Our need to move quickly and see results quickly is fear based and our fears alone. Who said to make the A as difficult as possible? That sounds like someone struggling with detachment. No one can really control their S and what they choose to do with their OP (A). All we can control is ourselves and becoming the better option over time. There are some people that say that exposure of the A leads to a quicker death, but there are others that have had the opposite reaction and it drew them closer. ... Now, that does not mean we should make their A easy on them, "sure, I'll take the kids last minute tonight so you can go out all night!" Again, different things.

- similar ones I can't think of right now


Please try to! This is really hard stuff!

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Hi Everyone.

Haven't posted in a few days. My weekend in AC was fun but was over too fast. My sitch hasn't changed much, but I wanted to post tonight because I needed to pat myself on the back and you kind folks are the only ones who understand how hard it is to motivate yourself through a busy day when divorce looms.

So here's what I accomplished today...

--Got the kids up and off to school.

--Managed a completely civil conversation with my W about scheduling parent/teacher conferences for next week. Then she left for the day.

--Worked from home today, so after a couple hours of work I took a break and did an hour of yard work.

--Two conference calls for work from 11 to 12:30. Then more work.

--Spoke to a few mortgage lenders about refinancing my home.

--Spoke to a new family law attorney to get advice regarding my rights and options for my "collaborative" divorce.

--Picked the kids up from school.

--Finished work for the day.

--Helped S8 with his homework.

--Cooked dinner. Healthy stuff...no chicken nuggets and fries! wink

--Drove my S8 to football practice. Hung out with D5 while we watched.

--Drove home, read a book to D5 and put her to bed.

--Finished helping S8 with homework and studying for a spelling test tomorrow.

--Read with S8 before bed.

--Packed lunches.

--Cleaned the kitchen and dishes from dinner.

--Packed my bag for work tomorrow.

--Finished a load of laundry.

--Wrote this post smile

I will finish off the day with a soak in the hot tub before bed.

Whew! I'm going to sleep well.

I have the kids again tomorrow night, but it will be much less hectic. Pizza and a movie!!


M46 W48
M11 T14
S11 D8
BD: 2016/05/27
In-home separation: 2016/11/23
Nesting: 2017/06/11
W moves out: 2018/01/07
W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12
I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
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