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My anniversary is next week and I don't plan on doing a thing. She left, moved out, wanted out of the MR etc. I will not acknowledge unless she is reaches out.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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Yeh I am J on this one. You're living a great life and moving on and not stuck to some date that has no meaning any more.


No one is coming to save you!

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When a WW is still in contact with her OM, I usually discourage the H from acknowledging the anniversary. You need to understand the path you are currently on. If you are in the initial stage of "Piecing", then acknowledge the anniversary. I suggest you keep it very low key. Nothing over the top.

Have no expectations! Keep it simple, and place no pressure on her.


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She leans in. She pulls back. She leans in. She pulls back. crazy

We actually talked about Anniversary. Came up in context of us not wearing our rings and her parents appearing not to notice. Agreed to do nothing "big", because we are in kind of weird place, but wanted to acknowledge/honor the date. Went out to see a band at a local dive bar at her suggestion last night before because didn't think we were going to be free actual day of. I bought her an orange rose (friendship to romance), but that was it.

She's alternatingly warming up a bit and then pulling back. She's not going out at all unless with me, but she's in a place now where I hate to leave her home alone because 1) she's in a serious funk at times and 2) she often defaults to texting/calling with bff, who is in a NASTY mood right now because her H (MY best friend) has finally stopped enabling her wayward behavior-- too late to save his marriage, unfortunately as the D is finalized in 2 weeks, but it is definitely ticked her off and hasn't made her already nasty disposition towards me any sweeter. At any rate, W's bff is not generally where I want W focusing her time right now.

She had reiterated a couple of times that she was really happy with the person I'd become and that she wanted to try and work on our MR "including IC and MC" BUT she even gets somewhat hot and cold on that (I think). She has a built in excuse right now as her office (she works for a surgeon's office) is switching to this new automated patient processing/info/accounting/billing system that is making her work extra stressful, has cancelled any leave for the employees over the next three weeks, and, for her in particular as she is the only one in the office with no training on the new system, has ramped up the stress in an already stressful workplace and made it extremely difficult (though not impossible) for her to get home in time for tele-medicine sessions or find time for a session at lunch. So, we had gone ahead and scheduled a planning session with the MC to schedule several IC and then MC session for this Wednesday, but had also penciled in a coming Friday (early October) for four hours of "intensive) to include both IC and one joint session. But now she's waffling on that saying that that is a training week and she just cant take the day off. Subsequent weeks have other issues, like family weekend at my son's college. Thinking maybe this is a sign?

Trying to walk a fine line between not pressuring her but still making some progress.

Unless she is contacting from work, or being VERY dilligent about "cleaning" her cell phone, she is not contacting OM.

On my end, GAL is becoming somewhat stagnant as I feel weird going out with friends without her when she feels like she can't go out with her friends (primarily bff solo) so she and I end up doing alot of things together... but there is no "spark" most of the time. Sometimes it seems there is but then she always douses it. I feel like if she were any other woman but W with whom I was in this position I could have seduced her by now, lol, but... wow... Just seems weird some times and she really is moody and mercurial.


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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Something you might want to start thinking about is being able to do things with friends separately. I think it is commendable that you don't go out with friends while she is not "allowed" to. Doing things together right now is great, that needs to be focused on, but in the future, when you gain more trust, I do think it is really healthy to be able to have separate friendships and activities.

That will be a test one day. When you can trust her to be alone or go out with friends. Because to have a healthy marriage that trust will have to be regained. One day.

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How are you doing, Jim?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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How are you doing, Jim?


Read a post of yours on another thread a coupla days back, a good one giving a good summary of changing the dynamic with a WW, and it struck me that I am probably in a place where my own W has not had to "work hard enough" to get me back. Not that this is any kind of news. She never went through any lengthy period of "missing me", and her efforts to regain my trust have mostly been of her own initiative, though she has done a few of the things I specified and, as I have also posted her previously, appears to be doing "nothing wrong" right now. She's moody and sulky quite a bit, but doesn't go out of the house for the most part unless its to do something with me. I have curtailed my own "single" activities a bit except for fitness-related stuff because I don't like leaving her alone at the house to stew (and text and talk with her extremely and increasingly toxic bff) and because I feel kind of funny going out "single" when she herself is forgoing that.

She has said she keeps thinking about IC, and it came up in our session with our joint MC on Wednesday (who we scheduled something with just to try to figure out "where we are going.") The MC is more than happy to serve as the IC for us both, and has recommended that we both have some IC as a foundation for further couples work.

W also says it seems like right now "we have everything except that one piece" (intimacy/romance/etc) which, obviously, is a pretty big piece, and that the thought of having those sorts of interactions with me still seem "awkward" and "weird" to her. To me, this speaks to the fact that she never had time to really "miss" me and redevelop that "pull". Now, we are kind of stuck in this limbo trying to figure out how to "get that back". MC says it can happen but that, even if the couple is committed to trying (which W says she is) it can often take a full year from last contact with the affair partner. MC seems to be advising sort of the same "take it slow, no pressure but yet you're still going to have to make an affirmative effort and choice to re-engage intimately" that the DB coach seemed to be advocating.

For the record, we are only 7 weeks out, I think (and assuming there have been no slip ups) from "last contact" with OM.

I personally am doing "fine", I suppose. I'd love for things to move faster but realize if there is to be any hope for a permanent reconciliation and the awesome marriage that I "Want", that that cant happen. I enjoy our casual times "out" together that we have once or twice a week (nothing "romantic"... she still comes by my Thursday hangout after she gets off work, and then sometimes we'll just get out of the house to go see a band-- live music is a pretty good atmosphere for us right now-- gives us something to talk about and covers up the silences when we are not talking although those silences are less and less these days) and we have had some really really good, happy, lighthearted (but unplanned) family moments in the past couple of weeks. I mean, she's right, everything about our interactions these days is as good as, if not better, than at any time since we were newlyweds. There's just not that "spark" or passion on her part. (I'd jump her in a moment, of course, but I've been playing it WAY cool in that regard lately.) Even when she's distant or in a funk, I've been doing pretty well. I've increasingly realized I have a lot going for me and will be just fine if for some reason things don't work out. I still have... what I'll call panic attacks from time to time where I wonder where she is and what she's doing like when she was a bit late getting home a coupla weeks back (that I posted about at the time), but those are getting less frequent. OM actually texted me twice in the past couple of weeks, which threw me for a bit of an angry loop-- don't know if he's just that stupid to think he can be friends with either or both of us again, if he's trying to insinuate himself back in her life again through me or (my paranoid side talking) if he is contacting her or trying to and trying to throw me off the scent by nicing up to me. The first time I responded to him and reminded him to stay the hell away not just from my wife but from me and my whole family, and the second time I didn't respond at all. My last interaction with him (the confrontation) was not pleasant for me and brought up a raft of negative, dark, feelings and emotions.

We (W and I) definitely have things to work through. MC and DB coach both agree that that work HAS to be done... that we have to work through the hurt we both caused each other. W, however, definitely has some issues that will need to be worked through in IC. She says that she no longer feels that anger towards me that she did for so long (and I can see in her interactions with me which are increasingly "warm" that this is so-- can't remember the last time now that we had a fight or disagreement or even a painful conversation that was not related to the OM/A) but she clearly has some other things to work through-- Her feeling that she "doesn't really know who she is", that she keeps getting stuck between "Who other people thinks she should be and who she wants to be", that she feels like she's "not as good a person as people think she is or maybe that she should be", that she's a "hot mess", and that she is not happy with how she looks right now, especially weight-wise (which is ridiculous because she's a knock out.) Anyway, a lot of stuff. And not clear how she gets into IC. Her schedule at work is CRAZY busy right now-- she's working like 50 hour weeks and prolly will be for the next 3-4 weeks, and, to boot, while she is comfortable with the MC as a "MC", she is "not sure" how comfortable she would be with her as an "IC". Some of this has to do, I think, with the fact that I have consulted the MC previously as an IC and some of it has to do, I think, with the fact that the MC is a person of strong faith who sometimes (pretty rarely but still sometimes) brings that into the counseling at least obliquely, and my wife's own faith (Cahtolic with all the attendant guilt) is something she is currently "Struggling" with.

Phew.

That enough for now? smile


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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And the "not going out at all" thing with her is completely voluntary. She told me the other day she's doing it because she knows I still have problems trusting her and that her going out right now, even to do errands, might be uncomfortable for me. After I had that sort of mini-meltdown when she was late getting home from work. She said she could see the pain and hurt and anger in my face that night, and didn't want to cause that in me.


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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Read a post of yours on another thread a coupla days back, a good one giving a good summary of changing the dynamic with a WW, and it struck me that I am probably in a place where my own W has not had to "work hard enough" to get me back. Not that this is any kind of news. She never went through any lengthy period of "missing me"


Glad the post helped. Yes, this is certainly not a fun time for either of you. If she is legit, then she is doing some hard work now. Remember, her work won't look the same as yours for a while. If she can lick the withdrawals of the A chemicals, and she is really being transparent........it is work.....not all the work by any means, but still part of it. If she's not legit, then it's only a matter of time that she'll start making excuses to meet her old BFF, halfway of course, to spend the weekend. She'll have to use some excuse to get away.......to see OM. Currently, I really don't know what more you can do, until you feel more confident that she is being honest. If she does have a backslide, then you can decide if you want to be MIA. And, should she backslide, you had better make a believer of her, that you are dropping her. Nothing violent, just be cool.

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She has said she keeps thinking about IC, and it came up in our session with our joint MC on Wednesday (who we scheduled something with just to try to figure out "where we are going.")


I think reconciling couples should do whatever they feel is necessary to help themselves and/or their MR. It also helps to keep the couple on track, so to speak. The MC would probably give you ways to help the R progress, instead of sitting in limbo. Left on your own, is so hard to manage the fallout from the A.

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W also says it seems like right now "we have everything except that one piece" (intimacy/romance/etc) which, obviously, is a pretty big piece, and that the thought of having those sorts of interactions with me still seem "awkward" and "weird" to her. To me, this speaks to the fact that she never had time to really "miss" me and redevelop that "pull"


You may be right, but I think it is b/c she still has the OM in her head. I hope you will fight the urge to "do something", b/c she is just getting started. It's more than her just not contacting OM. She has to stop fantasizing about him, and thinking about the "what ifs".

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MC says it can happen but that, even if the couple is committed to trying (which W says she is) it can often take a full year from last contact with the affair partner. MC seems to be advising sort of the same "take it slow, no pressure but yet you're still going to have to make an affirmative effort and choice to re-engage intimately" that the DB coach seemed to be advocating.


The "just do it" concept from MWD helps overcome the awkward & weird feelings, but it may take longer than a year for her to start feeling the attraction, it depends on the individual situation. How would you feel about it, if she was willing to have sex on a regular basis.......but did not feel a lot of sexual attraction yet? It can be a sticky situation with egos getting in the way, b/c it's so personal and can easily cause negative feelings. Since the sex was lacking previously, I think you both need professional guidance here, as to ensure a better MR.

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we have had some really really good, happy, lighthearted (but unplanned) family moments in the past couple of weeks. I mean, she's right, everything about our interactions these days is as good as, if not better, than at any time since we were newlyweds.


Wow! That's is wonderful, Jim! I think it is a good sign. The more laughter and happy moments, the better.

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I still have... what I'll call panic attacks from time to time where I wonder where she is and what she's doing like when she was a bit late getting home a coupla weeks back (that I posted about at the time), but those are getting less frequent.


From what I have read, that is fairly common when the S has cheated. Another topic for the counselor. What do you do when you have these panic attacks? Breathing techniques, some type of mental exercise, talk, or what?

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The first time I responded to him and reminded him to stay the hell away not just from my wife but from me and my whole family, and the second time I didn't respond at all. My last interaction with him (the confrontation) was not pleasant for me and brought up a raft of negative, dark, feelings and emotions.


He must have been feeling you out. Crazy! crazy It's a little hard to believe he would text you, and yet.... not text your W. If he did contact her some way.....even if she told him to get lost, she may not feel she can tell you since she saw your pain when she was late going home one evening. My advice is not to ask questions about her whereabouts or the OM. Let the questioning die out, but still keep tabs on her until you are sure. If she thinks you aren't watching, she'll slip up if she is not being legit. I think you are wise not to leave her home along right now, since OM has poked you.

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Her feeling that she "doesn't really know who she is", that she keeps getting stuck between "Who other people thinks she should be and who she wants to be", that she feels like she's "not as good a person as people think she is or maybe that she should be", that she's a "hot mess", and that she is not happy with how she looks right now, especially weight-wise (which is ridiculous because she's a knock out.)


Yep, feelings I know well. And, of course she's a knockout. This is a big, big part for turning to the OM. I think some wives have the thinking that their husband thinks she's a knockout........b/c he's her H and he loves her. It's as if his compliments are not as rich as having another guy tell her. She thinks you have to tell her, but if another man tells her.......then it must be true! That's how a lot of men get into the lives of vulnerable, unhappy wives. They just feed her ego.

Glad to hear from you. I am hoping, so hard, that you both get the help you need to heal and be happy together.


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If she's not legit, then it's only a matter of time that she'll start making excuses to meet her old BFF, halfway of course, to spend the weekend. She'll have to use some excuse to get away.......to see OM.... My advice is not to ask questions about her whereabouts or the OM. Let the questioning die out, but still keep tabs on her until you are sure. If she thinks you aren't watching, she'll slip up if she is not being legit. I think you are wise not to leave her home along right now, since OM has poked you.


So, how would you advise handling it if/when she wants to go "see the bff?" I ask because this is a very real possibility, soon, I think. She told me just a couple of days ago that, even though she was doing the "stay at home" thing, she was starting to get a little bit of those "trapped" feelings she used to get when she used to think she couldn't go out because of me (and I acted somewhat surprised, because I don't remember EVER being jealous or anything other than completely trusting of her, at least until the advent of the "A"). That conversation was one reason I backed way off on my own "single" outings. I know also that she has been mourning not only loss of the "A", but "loss" of the bff (who she hasn't "seen" in nearly a month.) And remember, these two are lifelong, and not just "casual" friends, who share EVERYTHING. They are, and probably have always been even during their respective marriages, each others' "go to" person. Now, that is not necessarily a good sitch for me, but it is what it is. I know that she "wants to see" bff, even aside from any potential OM involvement. I also know that bff currently has a pretty toxic view of me and my friends and obviously was an enabler in the past. I finally know that bff is going to be freed up starting tomorrow when my own best friend comes back to town and takes the kids. I can practically gaurantee that bff will invite her out to dinner, and possibly to come visit her (about an hours drive to the South) which would possibly implicate an overnight stay.

How would you suggest handling this when it arises, because the place she is now she will surely ask me "is it okay if I go."? Do I say: "under the circumstances I can't believe you would even ask me that"? Or alternatively say "I am trying very hard to trust you right now" and state my concerns about the bff (amongst which is bff's view that any woman, including my spouse, asking her husband if it is "okay" to go out, EVER, is week and stupid and controlled and foolish and should NEVER have to or want to ask her husband, but just go) and bff's role in enabling the "A"; Or say "I don't need to trust your bff, I just have to trust you? Do you feel like you are at the point where you can trust yourself in that situation." Or, finally, perhaps act as if nothing at all is wrong and say nothing.

Because it WILL come up. Book it.


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The "just do it" concept from MWD helps overcome the awkward & weird feelings,


Been looking for where MWD talks about this and can't find it. I have both the DB and DR books, but I tend to be kind of a "deliberate" reader, and scanning is not my forte. Could you tell me what chapter(s) her take on this is found in? Is it in the new book, maybe, which I haven't read yet?

Last edited by Cadet; 09/25/17 07:51 AM. Reason: combine posts

H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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