WAS vs MLC...not sure it really matters, part 3

[skm0619]

Hello all.......hope everyone is well. Been a bit since I posted anything.

Ciluzen.........thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me......you have given me MANY things to think about, so that is what I have been doing.

For the past few days I have been thinking about my anger. Like I mentioned before, I do not yell, scream or rage at H like I used to, but to be honest, there really hasn't been anything that has happened where I feel myself getting to a place where that would be my response. And, it is so non productive that I just can't and wont do it any more.

What I am trying to figure out is where is the anger coming from. The obvious is.... I still can not understand why H would make the choices he did leading up to the A, and then after BD become a person I had no idea existed......and not to mention the horrible way he treated me after BD. I know there is also still a lot of hurt behind the anger. I feel like I have made progress with processing my emotions towards H and his actions, but definitely still have a lot of work to do. I know that I am still punishing him and that is only hurting both of us.

I am distancing myself from H, and he has noticed. He is now pursuing me and making more of an effort. I know he will eventually get tired of pursuing me and feel that he is not getting anything in return, but I am just not there right now and feel that if I did it would not be genuine.

I continue to sleep in one of the other rooms, and we are not intimate at all. H does kiss me on my cheek before he leaves for work, but that is it.

He continues to have self reflection and says he sees things differently. He listens differently then he used to and has acknowledged that before he "couldn't be bothered" with listening to me. I told H that I was proud of the progress he has made, and have seen the positive changes in him. I said I would like to continue to move forward with him in our marriage, and know that it is going to take some hard work on both of our part, but H says he doesn't know if he can move forward knowing that I do not want a relationship with his parents.

Before BD we (his parents and myself) did not have a close relationship as they live in the UK and we live in the states. When they would visit, I would make sure that I spent time with them and I felt we enjoyed each others company. When H would skype with them I was not around because I felt like he needed his alone time with them. I did not exchange emails or phone calls with them, basically only had interaction with them when they would visit us (usually 2-3 times a year for about 2-3 weeks each time).

After BD, his parents said some pretty terrible things about me. When they found out I filed for D, his father told him to "take her for everything she has." They lied to family members about what really happened between the two of us.........of course they made me out to be the "bad guy" and that everything was my fault. They also bad mouthed me quite a bit.

After about 6 months post BD, H wanted to try and work things out and do some counseling. His mother did not agree and told him "make sure that SKM knows that counseling is for her benefit only and nothing else." She was not supportive at all. We tried to work things out, but H was not in the right frame of mind at that time so we continued to stay separated.......I am pretty sure his mom was pleased about that.

I understand blood is thicker then water, and parents will stand behind their children no matter what. BUT.......H has since told them we are living together again, trying to work on our marriage, etc. He took responsibility for the breakdown of our marriage, and the A. He also told them that he now knows that he made the wrong choices after BD in regard to how he was living his life, and how he chose to treat me. He also acknowledged that he was financially irresponsible during that time and racked up quite a bit of debt. He also mentioned he was doing the Landmark "therapy" and was working on finding out why he was making the choices he was, and was trying to become a better version of himself.....his father told him that he thought all of that "was a waste of his time."

I do not bring up his parents or sibling in conversation. If he does I listen, but do not ask questions. I honestly have zero desire to hear about them or speak about them. H knows that having a relationship with his parents is not a priority for me right now. I do not want a relationship with his parents because of how they treated me after BD. I was good enough for 10 years, but when I kicked him out after I found out about the A, I became this horrible b*tch to them. I told H that I feel like I deserve an apology from them......one I know I will never get.

I said that if he feels that strongly about us (me and his parents) having a relationship, then I am not the person for him. I told him that at this point in my life it is more important for me to focus on me, him, our marriage and not his parents.

I have started to look for places to move to because I don't think that he is ever going to change his mind about wanting me to have a relationship with them. And, I am not sure I can continue to live in this environment for much longer. I think maybe time apart would be good for us.

I honestly do not know what to do in this situation? So, I continue to work on me

[peacetoday]

SKM

Are you in C

Is there a way to forgive his parents without expecting anything from them

Some people have nothing to give and are totally unavailable
They were and are clearly wrong but-

but if it is a major block between you and him, maybe you can work on forgiving them, remembering forgiveness is for you and maybe for H and the M
since they are so far away-you will see them little anyway-

Maybe they are unworthy of forgiveness and of a Real R with you
and that may be true-but again forgiveness is for us

Just a thought- but please follow your instincts

[skm0619]

Hey peace.....

We are not in counseling. A couple months ago I suggested it, and told H that if he wanted to go then he would have to find the therapist. He said he wanted to go, but could not afford to pay for it. I told him I would pay for it initially to see if we were benefitting from it. BUT....he has not taken any initiative to find one for us.

As far as his parents are concerned. The reason all of this is an issue with me and H is because H wants them to be able to come and visit....like pre BD....where they would come a few times a year and stay for 2-3 weeks in our home. I have absolutely no desire to have them in my home or to see them ever again. They have shown me who they are and I do not want to be in their company.

The issue is that right now H and I are living in a home that he rented post BD. I have asked him about moving to a different place....one that neither of us had lived in so that we could start new. It would not be just his place anymore, it would be ours. He doesn't want to do that because then he feels like I would not let his parents come and stay when they visit.

My H (and his parents) have this idea that they should be able to come and visit as often as they like, and stay as long as they like in our home, and without regard for our lives or schedule. His parents are retired and are wealthy and travel A LOT.

I know that everyone says that forgiveness is for me, but I honestly don't care about them one way or another. I do not feel like I need to forgive them. They should be asking me for forgiveness. After a lot of work, the person that I choose to forgive was my H, and that is what is important to me. Even if I decided to forgive them I honestly don't think that my current feelings about them would change. I honestly have no desire to ever see them ever again.

I am not asking him not to have a relationship with his family. I have encouraged it because before we got married they were not very close.

[job]

If he wants his parents to come visit, then maybe it's time that they stayed at a hotel nearby. After all, you both have work schedules and other obligations that may not allow for you to be at home when they are there. I would hope that they would be understanding of this fact and be willing to stay nearby.

It's okay for your h to go visit them at the hotel and maybe even have them over for dinner one evening, but to come stay in the home while you both work...I wouldn't like that either.

[skm0619]

I agree with you Job

My H feels that it would be disrespectful to his parents to ask them to stay in a hotel when he has room at his house for them. He says that since they are traveling so far to come see him the least he can do is let them stay at his home.

I guess he forgot about the time both sets of parents came to visit and MY parents stayed in a hotel, while his parents stayed in our house????

I work 12 hour shifts 4 days a week so they would have ample time to see each other and do what ever they want to do while I am at work......but that is not what he wants. He wants us all to act like we are one big happy family and sit around and enjoy each others company.....not going to happen

And not to mention...it is difficult when they are around because H reverts back to being a 5 year old boy and not the 45 year old man he is

[peacetoday]

Hi SKM,

I totally get what you are saying and I understand your side

Forgiveness is a choice and while we don't have to do it and
they probably don't deserve it
and we may desire NO real Relationship with them ever again-

It is just an available option to smooth the way for You and H
and I get that you don't want to play games and you want to be authentic, and that is awesome -

I just find for myself that dealing with some of my extended family members as well as many aquaintences and people I deal with through my work-
forgiveness and looking the other way helps keep things smooth,easy,and cordial
(not to say they are saints in any way)
but my focus is to accept my situation and make the best of it trusting God will and does make things right

not that I desire to have any "REAL" relationships with any of them either- but it helps keep doors open and contact cordial and to a minimum or as I choose

I only suggest it because it seems to mean a lot to your H and may possibly help your reconciliation process-

But follow your gut

all the best-

[skyhigh]

It seems that you husband wants to keep you next to him as a plan B (sorry for the 2X4), his lacks of empathy in regards of your boundaries and triggers is really not the sign that you are piecing.

From what you are writing, it seems that he wanted to know if you still had feelings for him and assess his "power of seduction"on you. Now that you moved in with him, he is keeping you at distance. It looks like "temperature checking" with another round of MLC.

Moving away might be the best for you, first it will allow you to regain the sanity you finally had once you started to work on you and second it will show you that he cannot play with you anymore his little tricks. You deserved to be respected and right now he doesn't respect you, he doesn't show any sincere affection/love and he doesn't care about your feelings and how his behavior impacts your well being.

You deserved better.

[skm0619]

Hello all...........

I haven't posted in a while, but I do still try and keep up with everyone's sitch as best as I can.

Things in my world are so up and down....and it is draining.

H and I are still in the same house, but continue to sleep in separate rooms. Zero affection or intimacy. We spend time together, but it usually is only for a limited time, usually dinner or taking the dogs for a walk once or twice a week. I feel myself pulling further and further away. I have been continuing to look for places to move into. It is hard because I need a place with a yard because I will be taking the dogs. and owners in my area just do not want pets in their places.

Today H decided to take the morning off, and it was one of my days off as well. He asked me to go and have brunch, but I wasn't feeling it. We chatted for a bit about nonsense and then went outside. Had superficial conversations about the weather and the squirrels. We ended up back inside and then he started talking.

He said he knows he is "playing a game" and hoping for a certain outcome or trying to win, but also knows he is not making the right decisions to better his life. And, that the reason he is doing this is because he is "getting something out of not making those decisions" and "what he is choosing to do or not to do is somehow working for him." He apologized for that and understands that it must be very hard on me. When he says things like that it all sounds good, but then afterwards he doesn't follow through when he says he will do something.

He asked me if I knew what this next weekend was. The 19th is our wedding anniversary. He asked me if I would like to go and celebrate. Honestly I could not believe he asked me that. I told him I had not thought about doing anything, and I was not sure why he wanted to "celebrate" because we don't have anything to celebrate. He then proceeds to say "well, we are still married so I thought you would like to do something to celebrate the day we exchanged our vows." REALLY?????

Let me back up a minute.........a few weeks ago I told H that I was going to be moving out as soon as I found a place. He wants me to have a relationship with his parents and I am not interested in making them a priority right now because I feel that they owe me an apology and I know I will never get it from them. They have never even acknowledged that fact that he cheated, or even had a conversation about it and it has been 2 1/2 years since BD. His father wanted H to basically punish me by having him do things to hurt me financially and emotionally. If I remember correctly HE is the one who cheated, not me, but I am supposed to be the one who is punished for it???

Going back to our conversation.............I changed the subject, but we still spoke about family. They are having some sort of family drama and his father is trying to control what H says or does in regard to it. His control has been an issue for some time.

We continued speaking about his parents.....things escalated and I told him that he is making the decision to bring his parents into our relationship, something that is none of their business. I also mentioned that he and I may not even survive this marriage, so why is he so adamant about me having a relationship with them. I said we should be working on us first, then deciding if it is in the best interest of our marriage to bring family into it.

In the end, he decided that he could not move forward with our marriage because of the lack of relationship between me and his parent......so basically he chose his parents over our marriage. So, I asked him if he would please start the process of doing what he needed to do so that we could get divorced. He just sat there and looked at me....almost like he was in shock.

He later had to go to work. Naturally we had not spoken for a few hours, and as he was leaving, he comes over to me and says "I'm going to work now." I just looked at him and said "why are you telling me this? He said "I don't know, I just want you to know where I will be." OMG!!!!!!

He came home from work later in the evening and was trying to make conversation with me. Telling me what he bought at the grocery store, and that he had to fill his truck up with gas. Why is he doing this?? How does a person say "I don't want to be married anymore" and then try to make small talk with you?!?!?!

This man needs help. He is so confused and I am so beyond wanting to help him. But I also know I cant help him.

I am so exhausted and my emotions are all over the place lately. I need to change the focus to me.

Sorry my post is so long

[Gordie]

SKM

He is one confused dude

I am sorry for you and hope you find a place soon

I think the contradictory words and actions are so painful

Because if they just moved toward D or R we would know how to act

Instead we get back and forth and react

I do not understand why he wants his parents involved

It makes no sense

Crazy and immature

Good for you for pointing it out

Never apologize for venting and sharing

Peace

[Gerda]

Hi, SKM -- I just read through some of your posts, and I don't know you from the boards and you probably don't know me, as I was taking a break for literally a couple of years but my H recently rebombed me so I am struggling and spending too much time lurking when I should be working.

I hope you won't mind if I chime in but my take is different because what is happening to you is the dream of dreams to me. Not that I think it's the perfect dawn for your M; but it is a little beginning. If my H did the things your H is doing, I would feel that a huge shift was happening and I would wait with expectation and caution and hope. It's not that I think your H is fully baked and ready; he does still sound like a mess and it does still seem like it's going to be a long time. But to me it sounds more like you don't want to take him back as he is, broken and shaky on his legs. To me it looks like your very confused H who went totally bonkers and destroyed your M and hurt you horribly is now trying desperately to climb back out of the pit, but every time he sticks his head out of the hole, you are either thinking or saying, "Too little, too late!" and wack-a-moling him on the head. I know you are hurt, believe me, I am a puddle of hurt and pain most of the time, and your heartache is just like mine; but to me I think you have so much cause for hope but you are too scared to allow for another long haul in this stage of the MLC. It sounds so scary because of the other women stuff but it sounds like he is really testing the waters, and that seems like a great thing, however difficult it may be.

I once read a devotional on Rejoice about how when the prodigal spouse tries to return, it's like a child learning to ride a bike. We would never think of running alongside our child shouting, "What the heck are you doing?! Why are you doing that? That's all wrong! You'll never learn to ride that bike!" It seems like you either have to let him wobble on those training wheels and learn how to ride the bike again (still with plenty of detachment and GAL on your part, I just mean the times when you are together) or tell him you don't want to be with him and end it. It seems like torture to keep setting an expectation for what he will do and then feeling horrible when he doesn't meet your expectation.

My circumstances and what my H has done are horrifyingly wretched and I am on year five now. But I know that the choice is mine, and that if I am going to keep waiting, I have to forgive daily. If I don't want to forgive, I can't make it dependent on what my H does, I have to choose to walk this path or leave it. At times when I stopped trying to forgive daily, I destroyed myself, not him.

I was also thinking, if the MLC'er is that way because they are returning to a horrible time of childhood, it seems really unrealistic to expect your H would not want to have peace with his parents. If he is able to make peace with his parents, I think he will be a much better H. From my far away vantage point of not knowing anything much about you or your M or anything at all, it just seems like you are also choosing his parents over the M, in a way. I think that once you felt confident in his love, and it might be a really really long time from now, you will be able to forgive his parents too, and you will feel free.

I'm really sorry if I am out of line in posting this. I am a very devout Christian, but I know that that kind of radical forgiveness is not for everyone. It's really hard for me too; but I just feel called to do it anyway. Recently I realized again that unforgiveness was for me a death -- it was sort of a reconversion for me, and since then I have been able to forgive my husband even though he has gotten worse. So that's what is behind my words. But I am sure you will find the path that is best for you. I wish you the best of beauty and joy and love in your journey either way.