Still here. Still not detached... (Part 2)

[LH19]

JRUSS,

Not to hijack Chris' thread but last time we heard you were making out with girls at bars because you looked so happy.

Is the single life working for you? Are the kids still doing well?

[JRuss]

Things are great, LH! With me and the kids. Thanks for asking. Yesterday would have been my 18th anniversary. I didn't even remember until pretty late in the day, when the Ex texted about S11's trumpet needing to be fixed. When I think about where I was LAST anniversary, when it still actually was an anniversary, I almost can't believe it.

[LH19]

Things are great, LH! With me and the kids.

That is awesome! I am really glad things worked out for you.

[Chris73]

Grrrr. More drama...

Suffice it to say (without the extended backstory) that yesterday my W and I got our wires crossed with regard to who was picking up the kids from school. We were both working off assumptions and clearly both of us were at fault for not communicating better.

But the real problem started when she called me and started raging about how it's obvious that I'm trying to "stick it to her." I apologized for misinterpreting the plan and not communicating with her. I validated the frustration and anxiety she felt when she went to pick the kids up and they weren't there. I tried to assure her that the schedule screw-up had nothing to do with me trying to get back at her. Of course I'm trying to do all this while stuffed into a 3 seater on a crowded train coming home from the city.

When we finally hung up it was all I could do to hold back the tears until I got off the train. Finally back in my car I punched the steering wheel (man, that poor steering wheel gets so much abuse these days), called her an effing b1tch and balled my eyes out.

I'm still afraid of her. Most conversations we have these days end up with her losing her cool or just being snarky and sarcastic. And I'm waiting for the moment when she says, "Eff this, I'm tired of trying to work this out with you. You can speak to my lawyer from now on." But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it won't come to that.

This morning she was supposed to be at our house by 6:30 so I could leave for work. At 6:25 I get a txt from her, "Forgot to set the alarm. I'm leaving now."

...Deep breath. No big deal. I can take the next train. Plus staying later allows me to see my kids before I leave. I make coffee and watch Dude Perfect videos while I wait for her...

Finally, she walks in and apologizes for being late. Then apologizes for raging on me yesterday. She has tears in her eyes. I say, "W, it's ok. And I want to say again that I'm not trying to battle with you. I don't think you're a bad person or a bad mother. We're both in a very difficult and stressful situation right now. Regardless of who wants what, neither of us are happy and we need to work together to move past this so that we can get on with our lives." She starts crying. I offer a hug. She takes it. Kids wake up, I say goodbye and leave.

This is becoming a regular pattern now: Something goes wrong, she rages on me, I try to validate and avoid battling with her, 12-24 hours pass, she apologizes. It's hard to say if this indicates any progress in her journey out of the fog. Regardless, it doesn't change my expectations.

I really want this to end now. I don't think I'm DB'ing anymore. I still love my W but the reasons why I'm better off without her keep piling up. It's been 16 months since the BD and I'm getting tired of holding on to hope.

[Parkema]

Chris73

It's your right after all but it's well known BS give up too soon on their MR, you've come this far IF you want it keep up the fight and the DR'ing.

Mark.

[25yearsmlc]

So play this out. I always try to think like 2 or 3 steps ahead and look for potential outcomes. You say "sorry I need you home by 4, I got plans". She says "sorry not going to happen I am taking this client". What is your next move??

Man that's a hard question. If she responded that way I'm sure my impulse would be to get angry, which certainly wouldn't help things. But what IS the appropriate response? I could validate until the cows come home but if she still refuses to come home, then what?

When there is no pattern, perhaps this^^^^ is a whole lot of overthinking and borrowing trouble from the future.

What exactly do you fear? Is it that you don't think you can establish boundaries without looking like a jerk?

(A lot of us face that challenge) but that's on us, not our partner.

"Im sorry I cant watch them tonight"

I dont understand why more than that is needed. Theres a plan and you agreed to it with her.

this^^^


Doing anything outside of that is her asking you for a favor which you dont HAVE to agree to.

Why not just cross that bridge when you get to it?

In the past, Did you have a problem establishing clear boundaries and then resenting your w when she crossed a line - she did not know of?

If so, That'd be a good thing to work on for yourself, correct?

Thumbs up for that.

[BluWave]

Chris, have you read the book about Mr Nice Guy? I think it would help you and Mark (Parkema). It is less about no longer being a nice person and more about how to create boundaries to protect yourself. You both have WWs that make that very challenging!

Maybe give it another read if you have it. It is perfectly okay to say "no" to her, stand your ground on your beliefs, and pave the way for how your separate lives will be sharing the kids. You are no longer there to bail her out, accommodate her, or feel guilt around how she thinks things should be.

Blu

[25yearsmlc]

Grrrr. More drama...

Suffice it to say (without the extended backstory) that yesterday my W and I got our wires crossed with regard to who was picking up the kids from school. We were both working off assumptions and clearly both of us were at fault for not communicating better.

okay as this ^^reveals, communication and assumptions are a challenge for you guys.
You need new tools.

When we put things in writing we gain clarity (if we write clearly, not a lot of caveats) but we risk harming the R or divorce if he use legit concerns to vent or rant).

So put NOTHING controversial or re to the divorce b/c that is what L's are for but I think writing or texting will help if you keep it on message/on track.


But the real problem started when she called me and started raging about how it's obvious that I'm trying to "stick it to her." I apologized for misinterpreting the plan and not communicating with her. I validated the frustration and anxiety she felt when she went to pick the kids up and they weren't there. I tried to assure her that the schedule screw-up had nothing to do with me trying to get back at her. Of course I'm trying to do all this while stuffed into a 3 seater on a crowded train coming home from the city.

Seems to me the train was a good "Excuse" for keeping her on task. "W, yes this is frustrating but I'm on the train so we need to keep our focus on - X & W- for now."

(BTW who did get the kids? Reassuring her that the kids are safe is usually a safe way to keep the focus on Them)

If she circles back to the divorce, you will need to circle back to the topic at hand. Gently but firmly. Keeping the issues separate.




When we finally hung up it was all I could do to hold back the tears until I got off the train. Finally back in my car I punched the steering wheel (man, that poor steering wheel gets so much abuse these days), called her an effing b1tch and balled my eyes out.

I'm still afraid of her.

Can you explain ^^this?

Is it because she can still hurt you, correct? Boy, I really get that. Sometimes it helps to limit the exposure to them (i.e. interacting time) to a few minutes. We have to remind ourselves then, that "This is a short time, I can do it..."


Most conversations we have these days end up with her losing her cool or just being snarky and sarcastic. And I'm waiting for the moment when she says, "Eff this, I'm tired of trying to work this out with you. You can speak to my lawyer from now on." But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it won't come to that.

If you think those^^ conversations will "cause" her to file, all the more reason to nip that escalation in the bud. Reframe the discussions and show that they are narrow issues which should not overwhelm her.

"Pick up times" - packing lunch, PTA, sports events, etc --these are ALL manageable normal life tasks. Every couple has them.

If there is also a power struggle and unresolved conflict (and there is, right?) then get a tool for those issues. A plan. There is software out there that deals with these issues if you want to try it. I cannot recall the title but I hear it reduces these snafus and keeps them from ballooning into something unrelated and bad.

This morning she was supposed to be at our house by 6:30 so I could leave for work. At 6:25 I get a txt from her, "Forgot to set the alarm. I'm leaving now."

...Deep breath. No big deal. I can take the next train. Plus staying later allows me to see my kids before I leave. I make coffee and watch Dude Perfect videos while I wait for her...

great reaction from you

Finally, she walks in and apologizes for being late. Then apologizes for raging on me yesterday. She has tears in her eyes.

this ^^^can be acknowledged and then left for its face value. IMO, The more you make of it, the less she will offer apologies.


I say, "W, it's ok. And I want to say again that I'm not trying to battle with you. I don't think you're a bad person or a bad mother. We're both in a very difficult and stressful situation right now. Regardless of who wants what, neither of us are happy and we need to work together to move past this so that we can get on with our lives." She starts crying. I offer a hug. She takes it. Kids wake up, I say goodbye and leave.

Why did you say all ^^^that? It sounds as if you believe Divorce is the solution. Is that how you feel now?


This is becoming a regular pattern now: -

I really want this to end now. I don't think I'm DB'ing anymore. I still love my W but the reasons why I'm better off without her keep piling up.

It's been 16 months since the BD and I'm getting tired of holding on to hope.

I understand how you feel. But be clear that the messages you are sending are mostly you taking crap from your w, (which does not help in the respect department) then an apology from her but no behavioral changes on her end,

rinse and repeat. Now you have added in the part

And I want to say again that I'm not trying to battle with you. I don't think you're a bad person or a bad mother. We're both in a very difficult and stressful situation right now. Regardless of who wants what, neither of us are happy and we need to work together to move past this so that we can get on with our lives."

So it's like you are saying "W, we are divorcing b/c we are both stressed, and btw, you can rage at me when you feel bad about a choice you made...and do it again."

Perhaps if you put up the metaphorical STOP SIGN when she begins to rage, then redirect the conversation to what is really at issue in the present (kids, pick ups, chores, NOT the divorce)

OR end the discussion. If she rages at you - say "W, we need to stay on topic b/c this isn't productive."

OR "W I;'m not listening to off topic outbursts again. Let's keep the focus on XYZ. OR we can table the issues for now. Call when you feel more civil."

and get off the phone or leave the room. You are not tied down. Always say things like this^^^ with as much calmness as you can muster.

In discussions and disputes, the person who remains the calmest is the one who is empowered. When you show you are in control of yourself, you show your power.


It is okay to be done. But make sure you are done, and not just having a really bad day or trying to get a reaction or trying on a new position in your head.

Make sense?

[Chris73]

It sounds as if you believe Divorce is the solution. Is that how you feel now?

Frankly I don't know what to believe anymore. I can easily list many great things about our relationship from the past. But the key word here is "past".

I think I've been very clear throughout this process that I don't want to get divorced, but she keeps pushing for it. I have no desire to speed up the process because I think she needs more time to work out her problems. But I can't be obstinate and try to delay the process either. The more I dig in my heels, the more it angers her and the more likely she will be to file on her own.

If she came to me tomorrow and said she wanted to try again, I'd be at a loss for how to react. There so much work to do and so much hurt to get over. Sometimes I think that I could put the past aside if she really wanted to work on it, but other times I feel like too much damage has been done. I realize this is assuming a lot, but I can't ever envision a day when she swallows her pride and approaches me with true remorse and a desire to fix things. It's just not her MO. I think she'd rather leave it all behind, unresolved, and focus on something new.

So we can't go back to the way things were. But we can't move forward until we're out of each other's lives. How do you DB this? What else is there to do but GAL?

I feel happier when she's not around and I feel optimistic about my life without her. I enjoy my free time, and my time alone with the kids. I have a lot to look forward to without her.

BUT... I would never have chosen this path for our lives. How do I continue to stand for my marriage while at the same time find a way to accept the reality of divorce, heal and move on...?

[Gordie]

Chris,

That's exactly where I am now. And in my mind, it's the LRT. It's NC. It's dropping the rope. It's treating your w like she is your XW. It's GAL like crazy, including making concrete steps about your solo future. It's taking your eyes off her and the situation and keeping your eyes on you and your kids and your bright future. All easier said than done.